Greg Koukl: Are Pictures of Jesus Idolatry?

[@stevenschlei]

Greg Koukl is a brilliant apologist for the Christian faith, and I so appreciate many things he has to say. His lectures indicate a lot of thought went into them. This seems more like a "shoot from the hip" response. He starts off by talking about the 2nd Commandment prohibiting all images. That's a rabbit trail. In the OT, it is clear that God is not to be imaged because of the Creator/creature distinction. To image a creature as a mere creature was never a problem. To have to deal with a God who cannot be imaged means that he cannot be controlled or bribed. He is not dependent on man in any way. He exists in another realm and cannot be materialized in this realm by any action of man. The commandment says that the attempt to image God evidences a hatred of God. Why? Because to attempt to control God through use of an image is an attack upon the very nature of God. It brings God down to our level, and that is very wrong. Many argue that what was true in the OT has changed in the NT because God has now become man. Jesus in one person is both God and man. If a camera existed in the NT era or if Jesus had sat for a portrait, certainly an image could have been made. Yet, does that now give LICENSE to artists to depict Jesus as they believe he may have looked? Does God approve of human distortions of Jesus? Does God approve of a sinner play acting as Jesus? I personally would terrified to be an actor portraying Jesus in a drama. These are serious questions. Greg argues that as long as an image is not venerated, it is not a problem. Yet, is it not the point that there is only ONE TRUE ICON of the God/man, and that is the person of Jesus himself? He and he alone is the express image of the Father. It is significant that there is no description of Jesus given in the NT. Is that not significant? Certainly there were talented artist believers alive in Jesus' time. Why did they not leave us an image if images are ok, or even more, beneficial to our spiritual well being? Is not significant that the pagans attacked Christians for being atheists because they thought it was strange that they had no images of deity like the other religions? Greg's argument here leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Return to the drawing board Greg.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

Since we do not know what Jesus looked like how can pictures of what is supposed to be His earthly body be ok ?? Thanks in anticipation of a response. Every blessing

[@jallebo]

Read this! Acts 17:29 King James Version (KJV) 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

[@alex1ms]

Please explain how this answer from Greg is not Nestorianism. I’m really interested.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

Wikipedia is not a reputable source of Biblical truth. Mary, Peter,Paul,John and the rest of the Apostles are no longer among us on earth...They have died...they may well be born again Christians and in the pressence of the Lord ..But they are very dead and the Bible (God's Word) condemns praying to the dead (necromancy)..Waken up, your eternal destiny is at stake here. Repent and believe the Gospel !

[@YouAreIsrael]

How come as Christian's we manage to trot out the commandments we want to follow and want others to follow but ignore the one that God says to "Remember..."? Rail against Catholics for making graven images (which they do) and venerate them (which they do) and yet keep Rome's SUNday? Seems a bit off to me. BTW, has anyone ever noticed that Greg takes an awful long time to get to his point no matter what he's discussing? Brevity is the soul of wit.

[@TheFamily1309]

Nestorianism, please consider this prayerfully.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 Thaks for your response but I suspect you are mistaking Roman Catholics for Christians ...Roman Catholics are not Christians ...I do not know of any true bible believing Christian that pays any attention to the Shroud of Turin. Thanks again

[@CumbriaPreaching]

Also ........Please tell me what this conveys to you: For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.Epesians 2:8-9

[@dotails]

underlining the part of the passage "for yourself"

[@thestrugglesinmychristianf8370]

Even if you say you're not worshiping the picture it moves the heart regardless towards worship and so you are using an image in your worship which is the very definition of idol worship. It’s like how Jesus said if you even hate your brother you have already committed murder. It would seem that God had an issue with the very image itself. “I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.”(Isaiah 42:8). “Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.”(Romans 1:22-23). Christ came in the form of sinful flesh or as a corruptible man but He was not. “ ...even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.”(2Corinthians 5:16). God is eternal and invisible.(1 Timothy 1:17). “Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us.”(Philippians 3:17). The Apostles never made picture of Jesus. It was a Catholic invention and they even debated it for hundreds of years! It’s one of the things that Protestants got rid of during the reformation. Why bring it back when it’s seems so clearly forbidden in both Old and New Testament? Christians never used images in the Bible, but the followers of the Antichrist did in revelations. I always look at it like this, It’s the exact opposite form of worship than what we have been given namely the Holy Spirit Whom lives inside of us! I don’t know everything but I’d love to hear some feedback to learn more. Thanks!

[@_jizy]

Beautiful !! Thank you 🤝🏾

[@Mwaterfall]

Greg, you miss out the fact that alot of Christians do see G-d having a glorified resurrected body with nail prints in hands and feet. And they do see that this body is in heaven as the High Priest and King. Guess what happens when they pray and worship G-d? Guess what thought image is on their minds? Is it not a picture of a man like figure in heaven who is listening to their prayers??? G-d says you shall not make an "image or any likeness" (Exodus 20) of "Him." The problem with Christians is they have made Jesus into G-d by the doctrine of their Trinity. So any picture or image that reinforces this teaching, IS AN IDOL. You can't water it down and say its a mere picture. It's the teaching of the Trinity and incarnation that G-d became man that transforms these images into idols, which encourage mental images and impressions upon worshippers as well. Note: G-d is not to be identified as anything! "He" is beyond human thought and imagination. Isaiah 44:6-8 says there is no god beside G-d. "He" is the first and the last, and there is no other. Peace

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 Just to clarify then, you accept caner is a fake muslim apologist ? and Liberty University has covered that up ? Please calrify your position

[@CumbriaPreaching]

The word Catholic simply means universal and does not refer to the false idoloterous religion of Rome. The Old and New testament were complete and circulating the Church in the 1st century. Read your Bible! 2Thess 3:1 Paul asks born again Christians THAT WERE ALIVE, to pray for him, this does not help your claim that praying to dead people is ok, in fact the word of God calls that an abomination. Repent and believe the Gospel, you can know the truth and the truth shall set you free!

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 Please answer both of my original questions....Do you accept that Caner is a fake muslim apologist ? and if you are a Christian ....does this concern you enough to reject him as a false teacher ? Thanks in anticipation of a response

[@CumbriaPreaching]

I agree the church was referred to as Catholic (Universal)However, it was not referring to the Roman Catholic Church with popes, prayers to mary and belief in purgatory.Christians don't believe in those things. The books of the NT were circulating the Church long before 400 AD.Your facts are wrong,along with your understanding of what a saint is...saints are not dead people canonized by the vatican..look: To the saints who are in Ephesus. Eph 1:1 and To the saints at Colossae.Col1:2

[@bobchipman4473]

The Roman Catholic Church is as Christian as any other sect. I don't think we should "no true Scotsman" Christianity.

[@AdamMuirG]

What a disappointing answer from Koukl, expected more.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

Christians believe that God's Word is sufficient, so yes I am Sola Scriptura. Roman Catholicism DID NOT put the Bible together, the RCC did not exist before 3oo AD. There is only one mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ, not Mary. 1Timothy2:5 Read your Bible

[@CumbriaPreaching]

You seem to be having difficulty reading plain english...I agreed that the early church was referred to as "catholic" in the sense of "universal". Please go ahead and prove that the Bible was "put together in the 4th Century". Let me try to keep this as simple as possible..praying to dead people whether born again Christians or not is an abomination to God. There is one Mediator between men and God, the man Christ Jesus 1 Timothy 2:5

[@CumbriaPreaching]

You obviously have no idea what a Christian is...I was a Roman Catholic for 36 years before I became a Christian. Repent and believe the Gospel !

[@CumbriaPreaching]

A "Roman Catholic Christian" is an oxymoron. Christians DO NOT pray to Mary, believe in purgatory, confess their sins to a priest, nor do they believe the pope is holy father and infallible. The devil "believes in the Triune nature of God" this does not make him a Christian either. A Christian is someone who has been born again John3:3, this is not baptism, it is a supernatural work of God called regeneration. Denominations are not Biblical. Read your Bible and come to Jesus Christ!

[@Gitfidlpickr]

It is simple actually: (a) do not worship idols ..which were man-made artifacts (images and statues). There is no objection to pictures .. it is to what is woprshipped (b) Exodus never happened so therefore the entire Pentatuech) never hapend (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, Deuteronomy, Judges, I & I Kings through Solomon NEVER HAPPENED) So that book is mythical folk lore. NOT INERRANT SCRIPTURE (c) Jesus said preach the gospel not the Pentateuch ..more but out of space

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 How do I know Caner is a fake muslim ??? He tells lies...........visit Dr James White's KZbin channel to find out more.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 Is that the same Liberty University that promotes the lies of Ergun Caner the fake muslim ??? If that is the fruit of Liberty I cannot trust anything else they promote....even the shroud of Turin!!

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 Justify his behaviour how you like .....Not only does he pretend to have been a muslim but he also pretends to have debated many muslims including Shabir Ali ....This like his muslim upbringing did not happen! Just a reminder of God's standard once more... All liars will have their part in the lake of fire Revelation 21:8

[@mrdarrell1963]

So, cos it'd be so inconvienient...you're gonna cast it off? We're not to use anything at all to aid in worship or to worship Greg. It's very clear. Whether you don't think so is just irrellevant isn't it? Ok...done listening to greg.

[@CumbriaPreaching]

@mcguire162 ...Benny Hinn speaks the truth ...sometimes....The pope ...speaks the truth ....sometimes ...Even satan speaks truth ...sometimes . caner claimed to have lived in a muslim country untill he was 12 ...This is a lie ...as for the bible verse I quoted to you not being relevant ....Jesus said You will know them by their fruit ....A good tree (true Christian) cannot bring forth bad fruit ....caner is according to Jesus a "bad tree"

[@joel230182]

why would an artists' interpretation of a biblical subject be a sin?. An artist can be inspired by a biblical scene and paint it or sculpt it. What better subject than the Bible?! Now, if you get "too catholic"(if you know what I mean :D) on some image, then you are sinning, idolization. Appreciating good art is not a bad thing. If you know what is art and what it is made for, there is no problem. Artists like Caravaggio and Bernini are amazing.