Greyhawk's "Common" Gods

Talking about those gods and goddesses that are listed as "Common" in the Guide to the World of Greyhawk, and the implications thereof.
Check out the blog for lists of common and not-common deities: tinyurl.com/569mfzkw
0:00 What's today's video about?
0:36 What do we mean by "common" gods?
2:58 Common gods from specific cultures
6:30 What the gods tell us about human cultures
10:10 Who made this video possible?
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[@cutterjocky4917]

I've always thought of the Flan gods as the primal or "original" gods of Oerth. The Flan maintained close ties with those gods, while the other cultures drifted away as their cultures became more distant from the natural world. The Suel especially became fascinated with mystery cults as they became more decadent; which why their gods tend to be more esoteric.

[@juancholo7502]

I have my own setting using Castles & Crusades, but I am using some of the Greyhawk gods. I have Pelor as the chief diety & Kord is worshipped by the civilized & barbarian peoples. In the civilized areas Kord is pictured as a mighty Knight &/or athelete, the barbarians see him as a mighty man with a lion skin headress and cloak with dragon skin belt. Think how Hercules was played by "the Rock" in that movie from the early 2000s. The Halfling worship of Yondalla is part of a Mystery Cult. The secret is that Yondalla & the Human Mother Goddess (I forget the name, married to Pelor in my game world) are actually the same deity which is why Halflings are accepted by the church in all human lands. Stuff like this makes things interesting in the game for players who care and possible adventure hooks for me.

[@GRWelsh7]

This is something I've been wanting to develop more for my campaign... What deities are worshipped and where? What are the creation myths? What are the great legends of gods interacting with the Oerth? What sort of holy and unholy scriptures are there? Are there major prophecies? How do iconic monsters like dragons, giants, demons and devils relate to the gods? This is topic that has always fascinated me, although I doubt my players care as long as there are monsters to fight and treasure and magic items to be won.

[@MinibitX]

This is the first and only good, beginner-friendly source of Greyhawk lore I've found on KZbin, TYSM!

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Thanks so much for the kind words! I try to keep things short and focused, but sometimes I do do "deep dives" into somewhat more obscure topics. 🙂 Welcome aboard!

[@RAClaus3]

A majority Suel city with a temple dedicated to Nerull instead of Wee Jas for their death deity be an interesting plot point.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Or competing temples in the same city...

[@kaden7443]

I'm getting back into using Greyhawk after many years and I'm hoping this channel will be a good resource. I don't use the setting at full D&D trope inclusion because I use Mythras to play. But because of that cults are more integral. Thanks for making this video!

[@kennetth1389]

Brings up the old question, do dieties influence the culture, or does the culture influence the dieties.

[@tcschenks]

I once asked Len why his Suel pantheon had so many Good deities when the Suloise Imperium was so evil. He had a fit and said “Because Gary okayed it!” I keep my central Flanaess campaign pretty much Oeridian (which includes all Common deities with no racial origin like Ehlonna) since much of it was a viceroyalty of the Great Kingdom. I ignore the Baklunish, Suel, and Flannae pantheons. Istus is only common in four major cities. Xan Yae has a monastery in the Duchy of Urnst (LN Monk-Ghost Tower of Inverness). I brought in Bahamut as the Baklunish LG Monk and Paladin deity (he was Al’Akbar’s patron in my campaign). I kept Obad Hai as the Old Faith Druidic deity and Nerull as the death cult (and patron of the Horned Society).

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Fun fact that is often overlooked; Istus isn't a common deity. She's just Baklunish. I think it's because of the adventure "Fate of Istus" that she has a reputation for being more widespread than is warranted.

[@tcschenks]

@@GreyhawkGrognard Her deity description as having temples in several large non-Baklunish cities is why I considered her as Common…in those cities only.

[@ChapterGrim]

Beory is a great example of a "common" deity, and I wonder if Ulaa is like Berei a purported aspect of Beory - I see the relationships in this case as similar to Ao the "overgod" in FR and the goddess Selûne who are sort of permanent fixtures. What if Ulaa is the true "overgod" of Oerth, Beory is the aspect of that "overgod" worshiped by the Flan and nearly everyone else, and Berei is much like Selûne; Beory could even be like Selûne in this analogy making Ulaa far more mysterious - though as a side note Ulaa is married to Bleredd who's an Oeridian god so it may simply be an oversight. Given that Ulaa is described as an ally of Beory the former hypothesis is therefor threadbare at best, odds are she is an ancient pre-Migration Oeridian goddess that acknowledged Beory as the "Oerth-mother" and effectively "overgod" of the Greyhawk Setting, that the other postulations are based on errors given her husband and the relationships she has - it would go a ways to explaining her relatively poor stature amongst the Oeridian people and their pantheon...

[@TallDude73]

Great analysis - thank you.

[@vincema9755]

Another remark/question. You mention that Ulaa is the only god where the origin is unknown. There are actually other common gods where the origin is unknown. In the Players Guide from 1998 it is mentioned that Iuz, Mayaheine, Zagyg, Kelanen and Keoghtom are UC. The other Unknown gods which are not common are according to the Players Guide Tharizdun, Vecna, Wastri and Kyuss. Only Tharizdun and Wastri is set a 'U' in the 1983 boxed set.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

For purposes of this video, I'm working specifically off the list in the Gold Box. Wastri and Tharizdun are indeed listed as Unknown, but they are not Common. Thus, Ulaa is unique in that particular status.

[@mattinthehat3]

Great video as always. I've always wanted to see an origin myth of the various deities and demigods of Oerth. For the various deities and demigods that were listed in the original gold box set for the world of greyhawk, I've used them as is, for those that were listed but not statted, I've used the original Deities and Demigods hardback book. The non human deities section of course is helpful for demi humans and humanoid races, but for the human cultures I'm finding myself a little bit perplexed. Oh well just my input. Again, great video as always my friend and happy gaming

[@bromossunstarranger8706]

Awesome video Joe, great ideas for pilgrimages and religious events conflicts and clashes of cultures. thank you for doing these types of videos real gets the brain swirling with side quests and campaign hooks around religious people.

[@elementzero3379]

This definitely adds verisimilitude to a setting. Well developed, believable cultures are one of the things that I most love in Eberron. There is a pantheon called the "Sovereign Host" that is the predominant faith of Khorvaire, the "main continent" of the setting. The humans brought the faith when they immigrated from a different continent. And yet, a slightly different version of the Host was venerated thousands of years earlier by the goblinoids of Khorvaire. Even earlier and further afield, the giant empires of Xen'drik (another continent) venerated a recognizable version of the Host. This creates lots of depth and potential hooks. What has made these deities so universal across tens of thousands of years? Do you think your culture's version is superior or more correct? Even if your character isn't religious, it creates a very believable cultural backdrop. I love this sort of thing. Greyhawk is ideal for demonstrating these cultural takes on similar ideas because these cultures are still alive and living in reasonable proximity to one another. Your characters should definitely encounter different takes on deities in their travels.

[@Squirrel-Hermit]

Great stuff, may I mention your channel on my own?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Go ahead!

[@archibael]

I find it interesting that Nerull even has devotees in Suhfang, despite his Flan origins (Gygax; Night Arrant, _The Five Dragon Bowl_)

[@archibael]

Unless of course Maester Yeo and his ancestors were expatriate Suhfangese precisely BECAUSE of their religious idiosyncrasies.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

@@archibael But it does make you wonder just how far the "common" deities extend... If Nerull is known in Suhfang, can we also expect Boccob, Bleredd, and the rest? Does "common" really mean "universal"? It's a fascinating question. Also, he could have picked up the worship of Nerull after his relocation to the barbarous East.

[@archibael]

It almost seems as if someone should do an assessment of the religions and cultures of that part of Western Oerik, as you did with the Baklunish and the lands of Zihindia. Maybe someone who had already shown an understanding for those kinds of cultures by writing a piece about scrolls or justice or something like that.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

@@archibael I'm getting there! Soon as I'm done with Zihindia, I'll keep going west.

[@vincema9755]

How about the demi-human gods? Ehlonna for example is also worshiped by Sylvan elves. But wouldn't there be demi-human deities that are also worshiped commonly by humans?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

The "common-ness" seems to go in one direction only when it comes to demi-humans. I can't think of a single instance where there are humans (or other sorts of demi-humans) worshiping demi-human deities, but as you say there are plenty of examples of human deities being worshiped by non-humans. Part of that is because, when the Gold Box came out, there were no dedicated non-human deities. That came with Deities and Demigods, and then was fleshed out in Dragon (and later in 2E).

[@mattwassenaar456]

Flan gods are primal forces: sun, death, earth, peace. Oeridian gods are gods of change and strife on the battlefield, with more brother and sister gods and goddesses: Heironeous, Hextor, Eruthynul, the gods of the seasons, Wenta, Telchur, etc. and Fharlanghn god of travel and crossroads The Suel pantheon are about passion, reason and exchange: Lendor, Kord, Wee Jas standing for Time, Fighting/Sport and Magic/Law as major deities, with minor deities as more niche: Pyremius, Syrul, Phaulkon, Xerbo, etc Common deities like St Cuthbert, Olidammara, are cross cultural figures or in the case of Zagyg come from recent acension

[@scottmcley5111]

Thanks for the video! One question. SPOILERS! What is the reason Zuggtmoy is working with the Elemental Priests? I always had a hard time trying to figure out her relationship with Iuz. Pawn? Consort? Why not a more thematically fitting Demoness? Thanks Grognard!

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

She wasn't. The priests of the four Elemental temples were unaware that it was really Zuggtmoy and Iuz running the show. They were unwitting dupes, tricked into believing the Temple was about elemental evil, when in reality it was a way for Iuz and Zuggtmoy to gain power (and for Iuz to incidentally distract the attention of Furyondy southwards away from his own plans up north).

[@scottmcley5111]

@@GreyhawkGrognard Ah I see. Thanks!!! So the cultists are unaware of the presence of Iuz and Zuggtmoy?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

@@scottmcley5111 They were originally. Now that the Temple has been overthrown, the situation has changed, and at least some of them are aware of Iuz and Zuggtmoy, and are consciously working for them exclusively (and Lolth as well!).

[@tcschenks]

The same god in different pantheons makes sense. The Greeks copied Egyptian gods. The Romans copied the Greeks. In a fantasy world it would work pretty well. Personally, I got rid of all of the deities that didn’t have stats either in the gold box or Gary’s Dragon articles, with St. Cuthbert being the patron of Veluna/Verbobonc and Heironeous being patron of Furyondy…both being Oeridian deities from the Great Kingdom.

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

Exactly my thinking. Of course, that raises the possibility that we could see a more Oeridian or Suel or Flan "version" of the common gods. So, for example, Ehlonna in Tenh might be a very different interpretation than Ehlonna in Keoland. Also, there could be instances where a deity, even if they're "common" might still be regarded as "foreign" even if its worship is widespread, like Hercules/Herakles in Rome, for instance, whose rituals were done with the head uncovered ("in the Greek style") specifically because he was regarded as a foreign deity.

[@anthonyhargis6855]

Addendum: "Please accept this sacrifice, O' Great Lord of Darkness, Tharizdun!" . Mwahahahahahahahahaha! (Just in case you were wondering which "camp" I'm in) ;-)

[@anthonyhargis6855]

True. Some down-play the human sacrifice and some revel in it. It's a mix. Mwahahahahahahahahaha!

[@patrickholt2270]

It's entirely possible to have wide disagreement on the shape of pantheons and the relative importance of different deities within a polytheistic religion. You can have the major temples of different deities presenting different accounts of the cosmology, the origin of the universe and the deeds of the gods to elevate the importance of that particular god over the others. Confusion about the cosmology and mythology is almost expected, because of the fact that other cultures have other gods many of which overlap with the national gods, but in the nature of polytheism, they all have to be accepted as deities. The demand for clarification leads to henotheism and even monotheism, as with Aristotle in the Greco-Roman polytheism, arguing for the existence of a single Creator from first principles of the existence and coherence and intelligibility of the universe in itself. Any given culture in a fantasy world like Greyhawk can be at any stage in such an evolution, and is just a snapshot of where the culture is at the time of writing, in its official or mainstream theology. Where it becomes complicated is with the fact that clerics get spells from gameworld deities, which tends to impose a rigidity and a clarity which was missing from real world historical polytheisms, and still existing Hinduism, because you have provable, mechanised divine intervention is the form of clerical divine spells and powers, and other forms of divine intervention which player characters and npcs experience. You can work out a behind-the-scenes "real" cosmology, of which the apparent deities and priesthoods are loose approximations, allowing for a lifelike level of confusion and rival claims in the world, but in any case, I believe that a DM has to make firm decisions about what the cosmology is, regardless of what gameworld cultures , and player characters, believe it to be, because the last thing you want is a universe which is incoherent and arbitrary.

[@andrewduitsman3918]

I play a home brew campaign. I have a player who wants to start a following for Trithereon. I really don't do alot with Greyhawk. Where is the best place to look into Trithereon?

[@GreyhawkGrognard]

What version of D&D are you playing? If you're playing 1st edition, I suggest the gold box. For 3rd, the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer has a lot of information. For 5th, I have a whole priestly domain for each Greyhawk deity on my blog, in the Free Resources section at the top.

[@andrewduitsman3918]

@@GreyhawkGrognard Thank you so much I play 3.5.

[@akimbofurry2179]

Nothing on Rudd

[@Mericaball]

Cuthbert is the one true god.