Grizzly Man: How Documentaries Speak | Big Joel

[@catmiller8116]

One time Werner Herzog spoke at our university and his advice to the film students was to steal the school’s cameras. Legend.

[@kennyzraht5804]

Yep!! I love his film-making style. And that advice too. 😉

[@Cedawood]

Spoit

[@frechjo]

This video essay, by Big Joel, centers around the figure of Grizzly Bear, a movie by Herzog. Most of the essay is Big Joel arranging, curating and commenting on the movie. Big Joel and Herzog probably never met in real life, but the essay acts as a meeting ground, a place for the two men to connect through the art of film making...

[@dbx1233]

So you think Treadwell was gay???? Actually I'm not sure what your saying.

[@frechjo]

​@@dbx1233 I was paraphrasing the video by Big Joel, that talks about the movie by Herzog, that talks about Teadwell and film making, which makes an unavoidable reference to the movie itself, which he uses talk about film making in a video, and it unavoidable also makes references to the video itself... @~@ Just playing on the meta aspect of it all. (And Treadwell had a girlfriend, I'd say he was likely straight or bi, but how could I know for sure)

[@alevine1951]

@@ferociousgumby That may be the subconscious reason I get a hard on every time I drive by one of those god damn rest areas, even though I'm straight.

[@ferociousgumby]

But it would be SO much easier to be gay.

[@goldensloth7]

@@ferociousgumby in some ways... my mum always wished i was a lesbian but tragically i am not.

[@TheEndKing]

Yo. That shot where Timothy is swimming with the bear, then reaches out to pet it, and it whips its head violently around as if to say "WHOAAAH WHAT THE FUCK?!", that is insane.

[@moniquetrudeau5571]

I think the bear scared him as well

[@Ne0nLobster]

No kidding. Had they not been in the water, that bear would have probably attacked. You don't mess with fight-or-flight when it comes to wild animals.

[@jaelzion]

The only reason that wasn't fatal is that Timothy had interacted with that bear since it was a cub. And even so, it was clearly disturbed when he touched it. Any other bear and he would have been toast (sooner than he actually was).

[@wildwatch2023]

Speaking as a professional bear biologist who spent many a summer living in the same areas that Treadwell did, knowing the same bears, etc: He did not die because he loved bears, but because he had an exaggerated belief in his own ability to control aggressive bears through his own "alpha" body language -- much as Nikita Osyanikov (spelled phonetically) did with polar bears on Wrangle Island (NE off the coast of Siberia). Tim was killed during a salmon shortage when dominant adult males, that normally avoid people, came to Kaflia Creek where Tim camped. This was the only place even a few salmon could be caught that fall. Tim didn't like these big males hogging all the fish, so that a female with cub that Tim liked could not get fish. So Tim kept running at the big males to drive them away. It worked in the short term because Tim as treated as an obnoxious cub by those males. But tolerance has limits. Herzog not only manipulated the audience as Big Joel claims, but Herzog sequenced Tim's footage to make it appear as thought Tim was increasingly losing touch with reality. In fact, Tim was becoming more and more sane and savvy. He was toning down his eccentricities -- as would have been obvious had the footage been played in chronological order. In the film, Tim's "Eco-Samuri" routine on camera was NOT his normal behavior. He was doing a character sketch in lieu of an audition to try to get a job on a TV show (he tried but failed to get a role on Cheers). In other words, Tim was acting; he was portraying a character which even he knew was a caricature. Some bears ignored him or merely tolerated him, just as they did with me and subsequently with thousands of bear viewers who visit the Katmai coast nearly every day during summers. You can do the same thing through Katmai Coastal Bear Tours 1800-532-8338, which is run by John Rogers who also knew Tim well. Note that I was the first biologist to study Katmai bears (1972, while mentored by Fred Dean, Univ. of Alaska, Fairbanks) and have been studying their behavior and ecology for decades. I've have far more than 10,000 close encounters without being harmed. Some bear viewing guides at McNeil and Katmai have had several times that many close encounters without anyone being harmed by a bear. For more about how one really deals with bears on the coast of Alaska read WHEN BEARS WHISPER, DO YOU LISTEN? and THE ALASKA MAGNUM BEAR SAFETY MANUAL, and BEAUTY WITHIN THE BEAST -- books which I wrote as texts for my courses on Bears and Bear Safety for the Univ. of Alaska. Also consult the website of the Bear Viewing Assoc. www.bear-viewing-in-alaska.info. Stephen F. Stringham, PhD - Director Bear Communication & Coexistence Research Program.

[@kherossilverlight8400]

Thank you sir, for taking the time to write this comment. It was very enlightening.

[@Josabooba]

Stephen, who needs to tell people on KZbin he has a PhD... You are actually advertising bear tours here f.f.sake - can't they just have their own f'n space without shipping plane loads of fat arsed yanks in flourescent yellow wind breakers up there to gawk and point at them.

[@Pozizzle]

Whenever anyone tries giving their credentials on KZbin you cant help but laugh lol

[@abbyniloingsigh7188]

Thank you for this reply. I recently watched Grizzly Man while living in Alaska and was fascinating but I thought the framing of Timothy's mannerisms and the use of Herzog's opinions was a little suspect.

[@Trakesh]

Thanks for the comment sir. While I can't fully trust that you are the person you say you are because this is the internet. That is at least what I got out of the Grizzly Man documentary. People making documentaries often try to make things fir their narrative so ever since that Moore asshole woke me up to that fact I've always tried to piece together what the real truth behind things after I watch one and what you are saying is what I expect to be the truth. Also you have to be pretty crazy and eccentric to continually challenge bears so your favorite bear can get food. Not to mention overconfident.

[@elaine447]

I actually went to a talk Herzog gave at my university some years ago, and interestingly he sort of confirmed that this is what he was doing on Grizzly Man. About the scene at the end where the pilot is singing along with the "Coyotes" song, Herzog said something like, "People tell me, 'That was such a great moment that you captured!' and I tell them, 'No - it was a great moment that I staged.'"

[@jumanaalomary7895]

Meaning the last seen was fake?

[@5150hep]

So basically I watched a narrator give his interpretation of a narrator giving his interpretation of a narrator giving his interpretation of bears.

[@dustinf49]

All while Obama was watching you.

[@MrMethadrine]

Really this video was shit

[@hugh5114]

Oh that pic!

[@Baelor-Breakspear]

@@dustinf49 and giving his narration on this comment

[@kaalisurfer600]

lol

[@headoverheels88]

Beautiful essay, though one thing: the film is less "two men talking", and more like "one man calling, one man responding". A conversation would suggest it was a two-way discussion btwn Werner and his subject... it wasn't. It may sound like just semantics, but those two modes of communication fundamentally change the relationship (perceived or actual) between the two men (namely Werner is in more danger of projecting his own ideas onto the subject). Just a thought!

[@BigJoel]

I think you're right to make this correction. I suppose I was using the word conversation somewhat figuratively, but I agree, the distinction you make is an important one.

[@headoverheels88]

Like I said, was a beautiful essay. I was just being nitpicky! :p

[@BigJoel]

Haha, well thank you!

[@michealcurrie8272]

At Ah

[@djunicorne6248]

L

[@McKeelix]

My aunt and uncle were fish and game officials at McNiel River who knew Tim personally. They respected his intentions, but were very much aware of and concerned due to the danger he was throwing himself into. They, like many other bear experts/authorities in Alaska, made numerous attempts to persuade him into using a safer approach, but Tim refused the advice. Treadwell's death was deeply upsetting to them, but they were not surprised. I always have wondered if they were among the people Treadwell verbally denounced in his later memoirs after his own mental state had deteriorated.

[@MatthewStinar]

Sounds like he mistook luck for skill.

[@salvatoresgobbo3307]

Hey Kia u r an idiot and a cold person have some respect for the dead

[@Denisenoe]

Isn't it the responsibility of fish and game officials to protect animals fr/poachers? If so, what was Treadwell even there to do? It seems to me that people should just keep a distance from wild animals. Also, couldn't this tragedy have been avoided if Treadwell had bear spray? I've read it is pretty effective and does no lasting damage to the bear.

[@summit1547]

He lost his de way poor man

[@McKeelix]

@@Denisenoe Sorry for the late response, I didn't notice that people were still replying to this thread. Bear spray is not always effective in deterring an attack, especially if this particular bear was desperate to stock up on calories before hibernating. My aunt and uncle were stationed in McNeil River, and though they did protect the wildlife from poaching, they also were guides for the people that were permitted to camp at the outpost during the spring/summer. My uncle actually wrote a book on it after he retired, I think? Also, said uncle has a collection of animal bones that he's amassed over the years, because there's a lot of bones in the Alaskan wilderness. He also had a pet wasp nest for a while. I'm jealous of my cousin for having such cool parents.

[@deer105]

So- Timothy Treadwell didn't just get eaten by a bear, he worked extremely hard for that outcome. He had left Alaska at the end of September around hibernation time, and then came back to Alaska impulsively after getting into an argument with an airline employee. He came back at a dangerous time. The bears who had been acclimated to him were in hibernation, and a hungry and unfamiliar bear had come to his camping area. He deliberately attempted to interact with the bear despite its aggression. When it came to his camp that night to eat him, instead of practicing self-defense, he left the tent to personally confront the bear, as if the power of his personality and no self-defense measures or weapons would be sufficient. It was that protracted interaction with an unfamiliar, hostile, and hungry bear during pre-hibernation that led to him being eaten. Bears very rarely eat people, as his 13 years is a testament. You have to work really hard at doing everything wrong to end up bear food.

[@FelixS.]

In fact you don´t have to work very hard to end up being bear food that is a very wrong and dangerous conception. Bears are apex predators. The circumstance him surviving for 13 years is a wonder and pure luck / coincidence. The question never was IF the bears will eat him, the question was when. You can consult dozens of expert statements on his case. Bears do attack people and bears do kill and eat them. It happens again and again and the only reason it doesn´t happen more frequently is due the rare instances both species get into encounters as close as Tim searched for. Tim had it coming big time.

[@harrypark4428]

I like this comment. Considering the context of the video, this feels like an unintentional comment about how humans navigate the world by telling a series of stories. We are organizing facts to try and get closer to the truth and we cant help but lie (because a narrator is never completely immune to bias).

[@FelixS.]

@@massivelymandela6766 „It“? I don’t know what your source is but it is wrong 😂

[@FelixS.]

@@massivelymandela6766 Which experts on which documentaries? You can do the research yourself that 1) there are people who were mortally wounded by bears during the last decades and 2) grizzly’s definitely going to attack and eat anything they can in times they are starving. So please stop your strawmen arguments and educate yourself.

[@sharonsettle9079]

Do u believe that is what he wanted?

[@elsakristina2689]

I especially feel horrible for Amie. She died horrifically at the paws of the creature she feared the most (she had a phobia of bears).

[@trawlins396]

Then she shouldn't have been there.

[@sharonscheer7881]

This is why Ladies do not always stand behind your man!! If it feels bad don’t do it.She planned breaking up with him when she got home.He knew this.....was this incident at airport his last frustration with society?

[@darvon906]

Wtf was she doing going to live with bears then

[@MSG66]

@@darvon906 I dont think she really lived with them, I don't think she was even there for all the time he was. I understood it that she was there for a few weeks with him each season. I could be wrong, of course.

[@MirandaYocumHitachiin]

​@@sharonscheer7881I was wondering that too....maybe he took it out on the people at the airport....so then we shouldn't say she stayed by her lovers side, cause at the moment in time, she was no longer his lover

[@mr.hardtruth6475]

Proof, Bears are patient animals.

[@palinode]

In the early 2000s I worked for a documentary production company, interviewing people around the world for a series about historical disasters. What struck me about people in the U.S. was that they sounded a great deal like the coroner in Grizzly Man - stilted, camera-ready (or so they thought), always trying to fit their words to the show that was playing in their minds. The country was filled with Treadwells who had internalized the language of reality television. There was a real jolt of recognition when I watched Grizzly Man for the first time.

[@hennesseyddddrinkka6380]

Aidan Morgan you just waisted time with your comment

[@wantsyougoblackyoudontgoba2946]

Aidan Morgan I’m 30 so your 47?

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

@@hennesseyddddrinkka6380 ??

[@nothisispatrick6528]

Well... that was passive aggressive

[@kahunastev]

Gee, hate much? Sorry my fellow Americans didn't meet your standards while they were suffering and trying to rebuild their lives. Wherever you're from, stay there!

[@May04bwu]

I'm just surprised it took the bears 13 years to eat him.

[@TheUrbanSimian]

Humans are boney and aren't bears typical food. We also have 2 front facing eyes which denote predatory traits which is just reinforcing the "not food" vibe, I'm surprised they didn't think he was competition

[@Ambigirl2011]

I am trying not to laugh at what you said.

[@Auxified]

I'm surprised he was eaten at all. You would expect after 13 years someone would learn to not be in the presence of bears during a salmon shortage late into the season when they need to accumulate fat. Any animal would do the same thing in that situation, even a human.

[@Master-n-Teachvirgo8557]

🤷 he was the goat🐐

[@flameoguy]

If you know what you're doing you can easily survive a bear encounter without much risk of getting hurt, but if you spend a decade actively seeking out bears then eventually you'll find one pissed and/or hungry enough to eat you.

[@alicat7281]

Great video, finally something that doesn’t dwell on the macabre death of Treadwell. Instead, it dwells on the artistic aspects of the film. Well done.

[@alicat7281]

Brandon White Thanks. You must be a fellow insomniac like me.....it’s the middle of the night where I am.

[@alicat7281]

Brandon White Sure, we can banter back and forth.

[@alicat7281]

Brandon White Yeah, I am not a big fan of Facebook, either. By metal, what bands do you mean?

[@alicat7281]

Brandon White I’ll check it out tonight, after I get through all the stuff I have to do today. I’ll let you know after I watch it and listen to it, ok? It’s noon where I am now, so it will be after ten tonight when I can kick back and watch stuff online. Have a good day.....

[@alicat7281]

Brandon White Ok, let me have your number and I’ll text you to let you know I have it so then you can take it off KZbin, I’ll stay on here for a few minutes.

[@WobblesandBean]

This is by far the best dissertation of this quixotic movie that I have ever seen. Thank you.

[@Zentagon]

Dude, great job on this video. This is probably my favorite from you yet. Really love how you broke down the grizzly man himself with his prepared "spontaneous" footage that created his narrative as well as Herzog's approach to create communication between filmmakers and provide contrast as well. Keep it up, youre doing great.

[@BigJoel]

I'm honestly so happy that you thought this was the best so far--I was worried that not enough people had seen the film to justify this video essay.

[@karenkroplinski9101]

I loved this movie and it inspired me as an artist to actually travel to Alaska to study, photograph, and film wild Grizzly Bears! I even had some of the photographs I took of bears on my trip to Alaska exhibited at MORA (Museum of Russian Art)! This film has become part of my life in a way! I will never forget "Grizzly Man", Werner Hertzoz, and most of all, the amazing Timothy Treadwell!

[@BigJoel]

I really love this. It's really easy to hate on Treadwell and say he was being an idiot, but he was a badass too!

[@karenkroplinski9101]

Well, I can't say that I ever hated Treadwell....I found him to be an amazing individual! Not many human beings would be brave enough to stand ground with a Grizzly bear(s)! When I traveled to Alaska with my mother, we actually had a grizzly bear "charge" at us....now it was probably a "bluff" charge because that is what bears do when they think you are invading their territory......however! You have no idea how scary that can be! They say not to run when a grizzly bear charges and to stand your ground, but needless to say, my mother and I ran...at first...then I remembered that you are supposed to get off the "trail" and into the brush so you stop the "chase instinct" of the bear! Needless to say it worked and I am still here! lol! But....I have never felt my heart pound as hard and fast in my life! Truely an amazing experience that really makes you feel ....ALIVE!.....to say the least! This is also why I greatly "RESPECT" Timothy Treadwell and the incredible work he accomplished with the bears! Also it is strange that alot of people wanted to actually "hear" the "tape" of Timothy Treadwell being killed by a bear. Before I saw the film, I too, was curious and did not know if they would include it in the movie. However, when the film ended and I was in the parking lot going home from this film, I was really "glad" that they did NOT include the audio of Timothy's death! After seeing the movie I really liked him as a person and in some way could actually "feel" his "spirit". I will NEVER forget this film or Timothy Treadwell! He truly changed my life!

[@toohighstrung]

Karen Kroplinski or stupid enough

[@samaireoctober5584]

Please be safe!

[@sonicthehedgegod]

@@BigJoel i’ve been saying this, like say what you will but that scene where he bops the mama bear on the nose and scolds her like a dog acting up was some king shit ngl

[@timsopinion]

Honestly this was incredible. Your observations regarding the film makers talking to each other through "the camera's gaze" are so original and wonderful to engage with. You yourself and your meta-commentary now add a 3rd "conversation" among the many more your viewers will have in their heads. Absolutely great work, you've won a new fan.

[@SickOfItAll1988]

Think about it, because you commented this, i can go full meta in the fifth layer. commenting on your comment about the commentary etc.

[@user-wi9hv2pb2q]

I thought Herzog mimicked Treadwell's style so that he could use more of his footage, sort of make him co filmer of his own death documentary.

[@Ne0nLobster]

Tim knew what he was doing. His altruistic "protector of the bears" thing was always a BS ruse that he told himself and others to justify his behavior. The dopamine and adrenaline from living amongst, interacting with, and documenting the bears had become his new high. He no longer needed drugs because the bears were his new drugs. And he finally OD'd on them. I think he would have preferred dying by bear, as his pilot friend mentioned; he would've preferred that Olie got his winter meal and left to den for the winter. It's just tragic that his arrogance caused him to drag Amy and two other bears down with him. Glad you mentioned how off-putting the coroner is, almost as if he was really an actor. Also didn't appreciate how Herzog reveals that the audio of their deaths was chronicled, yet he dangles it in front of our faces like some forbidden fruit, never to be released to the public. Though overall, one of my favorite documentaries on a macabre cautionary tale about the dangers of breaking the barrier between man and wild beast.

[@alieninasia]

He has the right heart with a wrong mind. Doing this for 13 years is a real dedication to admire of

[@j.a.greene3523]

One thing that I will mention as a film-writer, I think the film, on one hand, is so authentic and genuine that it can't possibly be conceived by any human mind, but only by happy accident. As Herzog pointed out in the film, even nature sometimes presented such beautiful scenes that no Hollywood film could duplicate. On the other hand, I think Herzog showed how human interaction with such "untouched" nature (both referring to nature itself and the 100+ hours of raw footage that Timothy shot) changes the narrative of what's real. I think the underlying point that Herzog was getting at is that humans always insert our own story into what is natural, whether right or wrong... but that is the purpose of film-making; it is to present both truth and opinion and do such in a personal, artistic way. If Timothy never shot a minute of film in his adventures, or, if Werner Herzog never decided to make a documentary on him using said footage, hardly any of us would know who Timothy Treadwell was, much less have a conversation about who he was, what he stood for, what problems he may or may not have, and what his legacy is leaving behind. This is the truth about cinema: there is a story to be told for us to learn more about who we are as humans and how we find ourselves in a world that we know is bigger than ourselves, and the purpose of great cinema is to get us conversing about things that we normally wouldn't without it. Grizzly Man is a beautiful but tragic story of when a person arguably crosses the line between man and nature (Fabrication versus truth) and does not understand / respect the line between the two. Werner Herzog makes it apparent that Timothy Treadwell crosses lines that Herzog does not think should have been crossed, but at the same time, showcasing the nearly unhindered reality during such acts through the remaining footage that no one could ever replicate on any stage or movie set, both in the raw emotion in Timothy and the scenery behind him. The movie, purposely, bends the line between what is real, and what is fictionalized, and warns about the dangers of doing so, even though it is tantalizing to make our fantasies reality like Timothy Treadwell did. This, I believe is the reason for this movie existing, and this is an important conversation for us to have, not only as filmmakers, but as people.

[@Adam-qv2bd]

I'll never get tired of this Doc. Saw it since it came out. Downloaded a ton of movies in the early 2000's.

[@bowser_inthe_darkworld2]

Dude, what a phenomenal video essay. Brilliantly read, edited, really enjoyable. Plus, I hadn't heard of this film but it sounds fascinating, looking forward to watching it. I love the idea of a "friction" between spontaneous footage and prepared footage, it feels like the movie is a cohesive "whole", instead of the interviews jarring with the handheld footage.

[@BigJoel]

Thanks so much for watching. The film really does function as a thematic whole, a feat which is all the more impressive considering just how fragmented Timothy's life and footage was. Yeah, with these sorts of videos, it's always a risk that people won't have seen the film, and I hope to appeal to people who haven't. It's a fantastic movie and it would be great if more people saw it because of me.

[@bowser_inthe_darkworld2]

I watched the film and it has blown my mind. I hadn't been so moved by a film in a while, it's so good. I had never watched a Werner Herzog movie and gotta check out some more. What he achieves with Timothy's footage is incredible, the way it's edited together makes the images flow so perfectly, the tone, the way the tension near the bears is so palpable. Timothy's story is fascinating, and it's a big part of the movie, but I agree with you that this is almost a "movie" by Herzog using Tim's footage to create something new, instead of a pure documentary (despite it being a docu also!) I had never seen anything like it.

[@BigJoel]

I'm so happy you watched the movie. There's so many things in it that evoke a tension between artifice and reality that I didn't include in my essay. Like, that scene where the bear is diving deep into water and Herzog says "what may seem playful may be an act of desperation." That scene's great because 1) the image of a bear diving deep in water is pretty emblematic of the film in general and 2) Herzog's reinterpretation functions again as an attempt to divide truth from appearance.

[@bowser_inthe_darkworld2]

Ah, very nice! Yeah! He grabs Timothy's footage and charges it with an energy which it didn't have, by editing it the way he does, speaking over it. You end up having a very rich and emotionally complex relaction to everything that's going on screen. I was stunned at how well he achieves it.

[@noblewolf9364]

It's sad what happened to him. I think he meant well but if you truly love and respect nature just respect and admire. If you need food just take what you need and show the kill reverence and thank it. Again, he meant well but paid dearly for his unnatural alliance with predatory creatures.

[@sammosaurusrex]

still one of my favorite Big Joel videos

[@solukhumbu911]

timothy treadwell needed friends and family surrounding him when he switched to becoming a bear-man. he is by nature an extrovert he should be around people to confirm his insecurities. he definitely had a very unrealistic animated view on animals in general.

[@freezegopher7054]

"This morticians candor reeks of artificiality. He's so weirdly upbeat, so oddly stilted. So aware of the camera's presence.." Sir you inadvertently summed up Californians in general...

[@user-mv9tt4st9k]

🙄 Oh, please...

[@ammie8659]

Not surprising. I'm California born and bred, but left it 30 years ago. My family who still live there say it's a completely totalitarian state now. Everyone goes thru the motions but no one believes in them.

[@debbieschultz9768]

What do you know about Californians.

[@noragardner4072]

I think my favorite part of the movie was when they said, "sometimes he captured beautiful moments without even realizing." They then showed a shaky camera that was blurred

[@emilyillfelder7599]

You are quickly becoming one of my favorite KZbin channels. Good job!

[@cultofmalgus1310]

You think as the bear was tearing him apart he was regretting every life decision that led him to that moment? I know I couldn't imagine the pain that guy was going through. What a hell of a way to go. Wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy.

[@Miyagi92]

Ye when the bear attacked he sobered up from his mental state and begged amy to get the bear of him an got her killed he defo didnt wanna die for his bears but it was to late

[@jaynedavis3388]

My tag line on deviantart is literally “some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you”. I chose it because bears are incredibly important to me (I’ve gotten Christmas presents that were other people donating to building bear sanctuaries & I LOVED IT). Despite this, I’ve never expected that a bear would love me. The wild ones should be left completely alone & captive bears should be “freed” into properly sized & staffed sanctuaries. I’d give my life to protect a bear’s habitat but I’m not going to feed one my arm because a bear is hungry. I don’t know if any of that makes sense, I just think people have no respect

[@6iaZkMagW7EFs]

I'm watching a video about a guy who made a video about a guy's videos. And you're reading my comment about it.

[@banessuperbrutalmetalfunti2561]

And now i'm replying to the comment about reading a comment about a guy making a video of a guy making a video of a guy making videos.

[@sess9561]

@@banessuperbrutalmetalfunti2561 How far of a drop do I need to snap my neck?

[@peanutgallery0078]

Oh the layers of irony! 😂😁

[@anarcopablo]

@@banessuperbrutalmetalfunti2561 and now I'm replying tô the reply tô the comment tô the vídeo replying tô the vídeo replying tô the vídeo Ok we can stop now

[@razieldumas]

Big Joel's voice is so soothing.

[@stephenland9361]

"...he had an exaggerated belief in his own ability..." and it eventually got him killed. Unfortunately, it also got someone else killed.

[@mysteryjunkie9808]

And two bears killed something he said he never wanted to happen

[@jasonharris836]

I know Treadwell wanted to protect them, but him living among them and becoming friendly with them was flat out DISRESPECTFUL to their nature and instinct as bears. They are wild animals and vicious carnivours and built to kill anything smaller than them.

[@14bchu]

layer 1: Timothy Treadwell (bear man) | Layer 2: Werner Herzog (director) | layer 3: Big Joel (View Essay Writer/Producer) | ...

[@JayInDecent]

Brian Chu layer 4 you layer 5 me

[@jforjf]

Sup Layer 7. I know you 8 9 but 10s no TT

[@emaresea]

It's bear-ception.

[@jacobdotcom5349]

House of Leaves type beat

[@jimmycline4778]

Get the friying pan! She was yelling at him to fight back, this was sad!

[@Josabooba]

The film was a directorial ode to Treadwell - in that Herzog embodied the characteristics, style, motivations and flaws of Timothy and he honours him magnificently, warts and all, in doing so. Herzog was right not to include the (audio) recording of the attack.

[@leilaodelbrink77]

This guy.. I feel sorry for him really.. He was very delusional, thinking he was soo much but he was only human. I have seen most of his videos and he is clearly living in a fantasy world were he is the hero. To bad he had to bring his girlfriend into his madness in that time of the year the bears are preparing for their hybernation.. R.i.p his gf..

[@damesaphira9790]

Suggesting Herzog lied about the number of clips with Amy is petty.

[@oswaldomayberry9260]

7:10 mark you misspoke

[@randyhutchinson9910]

the whole damn thing should've never happened, he should've listened

[@buster3041]

Duh

[@KingoftheJuice18]

I saw this Treadwell series a few years ago. Your analysis is very well-done, Joel. By the way, if you want to explore this notion more concerning the distinction between historical facts and truth, look into what the ancient Greek historian Thucydides writes about his own presentation of Pericles' funeral oration.

[@kevin-jd5rj]

I know this video is like 5 years old but Herzog is one of my favorite filmmakers of all time. I would love to hear another video about one of his movies. into the inferno, fireball, cave of forgotten dreams, and even the most unknown which he advised on, just to name a few. he has such a conversational voice in his documentaries and I find his speech so earnest and authentic. I know you have so many topics to consider making videos on but I would love an analysis of Herzog's voice and work ❤️

[@kathrynoneill5862]

Maybe the audio should be released so that people will stop thinking they could play with wild animals.

[@320_kbps]

cinema bearité

[@rooseveltbrentwood9654]

jtst44 underrated comment 😂😂😂

[@alisaurus4224]

Wowww

[@GolDDarius]

Nope I'm Good. Bears literally look like big huge demons with those soulless eyes that just are focused on feeding on me. I can't comprehend how terrifying existing must've been for early humans.

[@EmmaDilemma039]

Yea, I know it's silly, but this and other films and stories have actually given me nightmares about bears. It's disturbing to think that you are just prey to these vicious animals.

[@thor4164]

Early modern humans would have been as seasoned to the wild as these bears. Those who ventured out into the wild alone would have been pro hunters, always prepared with weapons.

[@MarkMphonoman]

I embrace both of their works. This documentary was very moving and well done.

[@willswalkingwest7267]

Tim would have been a much happier man and likely still alive if he would have come to terms with his homosexuality and accepted who and what he was. I think Herzog did a disservice to the guy. I feel sorry for the woman who died with him, she was more than a bear victim. Leave the bears alone. Keep the tourists away from them. Let them be bears.

[@CarmenZynger]

Loved this viewpoint. Loved the piano, the clips of Herzog, the ideas, and providing a different viewpoint beyond a biography. "Here we get to see them talking." So nice!

[@JaneDoe-sz3jp]

No matter how crazy he was no one deserves to die like that.

[@egospecto1815]

The real job for Tim was at home protesting against bears in captivity. Bears live in the wild, people live in the town. It is cruel to put bears in a zoo.

[@katherinea.williams3044]

Couldn’t concur with you more! I wrote a manifesto in junior high school explaining why I wouldn’t be joining the class trip to the Seaquarium. I sat alone in class with a teacher. I’ve never paid for animal entertainment and never will. I’ve always wanted to swim with dolphins, but I cannot and will not support animal entertainment. #mytwocents Love & Light from Miami Shores🦚 Stay safe mate🌎🙏🏼 Peace & Prayers for the people of Ukraine🇺🇦

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

The one documentary where the director's thoughts aren't barely in the film? The one about the guy whose thoughts were in a bear...along with the rest of him.

[@NeonNijahn]

Do a video essay on paddington 2. That movie is so fun and so well executed and a great study in storytelling, pay off, and characters.

[@marksc1929]

..the irony of Treadwell and Steve Irwin being killed by the very thing they set out to protect...

[@117neither]

"Some flies are too awesome for the wall. Documentarians are supposed to be objective, to avoid having any effect on the story. And yet we have more effect than anyone, because we decide to tell it. And we decide how it ends. Will your story be yet another sad one of yet another man who just wanted to be happy? Or will your story acknowledge the very nature of stories, and embrace the fact that sharing the sad ones can sometimes make them happy?" - Abed Nadir

[@oswaldomayberry9260]

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you

[@moniquetrudeau5571]

When they were going to go home they should had left. When Herzog says there are lines we should not cross, we need to humble ourselves and refrain from putting ourselves on pedestals. Not only did he want to be invincible in nature but he wanted to be superior in society sometimes you have to step back.

[@Thathorrorguy12FU]

It is true. He was in nearly every shot. This may have been about his love for the animals and nature. But,the endgame was his fame that he had received for this carelessness that eventually costed he and his innocent female friend,who openly admitted in the diary she was leaving him and he was on a path of destruction. Remember Tim Treadwell was a guy who claims his life and dreams were destroyed because Woody Harrelson,a trained actor,had got the part in Cheers the Tim,not a trained actor, just as he was not a trained bear handler,or a trained guide for ppl visiting the park,whiihe was paid buy them for him to guide them through the park and probably a grizzly watch ,no doubt, endangering these ppl as well. Yes,he claimed he was a guide at the park and he was not. But, this all stemmed from the part on Cheers he didn't get. So he sank into a deep depression, rather than honing his craft of acting,or even going to school for it. No he started drinking,then he claimed the drinking leaf to harder drugs. It was after he overdosed on Heroin that he was taken to the park by a friend. But, this got him TV shows, David Letterman appearances, notoriety,and money,and yes fame. In the end,the camera was covered,but you can hear exactly what Tim got for his big final payoff. This is a very cautionary tale of a man with serious mental illness. Who by law,time after time was repremended for disobeying park rules. And these rules were made mostly to protect Tim. Instead he took it as them challenging him. No! Tim at a certain point should have been banned for life from the park. And if he broke that rule, he'd go to jail. They couldn't tell that by talking to this guy for five minutes he wasn't a Fruit Loop!? Are you kidding!? I can tell ,and I'm not even a psychiatrist,nor have I studied it. And if you watch his documentary,I am 100% positive everyone would agree he had serious mental illness and was completely out of touch with the real reality of his situation,and nature itself. Sorry so long, I'm just putting that out there for everyone. And I did so because that is the complete 💯 truth of this whole nature. No pun intended.

[@RepublicofE]

I avoided this documentary for a while precisely because I thought it would be boring due to bullshit neutrality which in effect would serve to miminize the abject stupidity of Treadwell's actions. This is the kind of topic that needs to be editorialized. Throughout the film the people close to Timothy show no hint of ever having gotten a clue. They still think his heart was somehow in the right place. In the hands of a "neutral" documentarian the film would be 80% fawning over him.

[@carlmanvers5009]

I would have preferred a less "Werner Herzog Approach" to this film. The events didn't need the touches he gave them, I think they stood on their own. Still worth watching though.

[@OpticLureProductions]

Man, great job on this! I'm glad KZbin exists so talented people like yourself can share with us!

[@dsbmwhacker]

Treadwell was destined to become dinner for some hungry bear. Too bad he took his girlfriend with him.

[@probablynoturdad]

You always put the best music in your stuff. I love your stuff. Please keep it up.

[@FrankLightheart]

I've watched this movie several times. It's fantastic. It's beautiful, silly, and sad.

[@jimcameron9848]

Herzog has never held himself out as a traditional documentary filmmaker. I get your points.

[@lovesongization]

He just thought he was an expert judging by the way he yelled at the Bear.

[@fernatticus5134]

Was looking for videos about this film and found one by one of my favorite KZbinrs!

[@phapnui]

2:40 This guy summed it up best. And this is the only one not emoting for the camera. The rest of the characters, including Herzog, make the grizzly bears look like the superior specie.

[@狐地震]

It was kind of a weird documentary.

[@kennyzraht5804]

I bought this the year it came out, and since then I kept putting it off, also for fear that the death scene might be included in the film. Then, yesterday, I gathered the courage and watched it. Thankfully, it wasn't. And it is a great documentary! The message is great: there are boundaries in nature. Tim, not only that he crossed them, but he pretended they don't exist. That he was one of the bears, one of the foxes. He kept on tempting fate, until, fate caught up with him. Keep in mind, he went back at a time when he shouldn't have been there anymore. He also camped so dangerously. He kept on disregarding those rules in nature. Naming those animals do nothing to change those rules. Telling them you loved them, have no effect on them. That fateful day, for that bear, Tim and his girlfriend were no friend, and no foe. They were nothing but a salmon. Sadly, the two bears paid a price for doing nothing other than feeding ahead of hibernation. In death, he took with him two of the animals he claimed to look out for.

[@Julia-qt5wd]

The og Grizzly Man graduated from my high school

[@Kelly14UK]

Jewel and the mortician were like a pair of fruitcakes starring in a documentary about a nutcase. Herzog makes some of the best films.

[@fbg5678]

Herzog says that the last footage where Amy appears got to his hands when he was already finishing the documentary, that's why it wasn't mentioned beforehand.

[@hellosweetheart3350]

7:19 idk what this body bag is supposed to portray but apparently their bodies were brought back in pieces...

[@BFree-ge6ms]

Yeah, their bodies were in the bear who killed them. So sad for all.

[@illiadmcswain3956]

His ego got a perfectly good bear killed. When I watched that series I knew his days were numbered...

[@BFree-ge6ms]

@@illiadmcswain3956 , yes. He could have been quite delusional too. There's no way a sensible person would consider it

[@golds335]

that fox so sweet tho.

[@ferociousgumby]

When I saw Grizzly Man, I kept thinking - they're putting me on. This is satire, parody - or SOMETHING. The interviews are so hokey and stilted, like something out of SCTV. By the end of it, I was convinced Treadwell is still alive and the whole thing was a stunt.

[@Cloudancer2024]

ITA that those interviews were awful, and obviously staged. The coroner was crazy as hell, Timothy's friends all looked like misfits stiffly reciting their lines from a play, and Tim's ex-girlfriend was treated like she was his widow. It's almost as if Herzog intentionally chose to interview people who were very odd in order to underscore how bizarre Timothy was.

[@finneganlindsay]

You obviously have no grasp on Herzog's style of filmmaking. You have no idea what you're talking about

[@slackhackman9115]

All the bears loved Timothy... except for one. 🐻

[@LUSCIOUSDUNCAN]

i've never even SEEN grizzly man and yet this is a very, VERY well-done video. i've always been a cursory fan of documentaries and absolutely love some of the "bigger" players like errol morris but had never gotten around to this one. guess i need to get deeper into the documentary rabbit hole

[@jennifercoleman172]

Speaking as a professional human, I would be very upset finding myself around that many bears. As someone who enjoys not being eaten alive I steer clear of bears and I don't care how many degrees in biology you have, when the bear starts attacking you what is your plan, show him your degree and tell him this isn't his nature?

[@grantsummers1761]

I've watched a lot of your videos, and I think this one might be my favorite. Insightful discussion of the documentary

[@kristiantorres1080]

This analysis is beautiful!

[@freshjive8586]

Thanks. Really enjoyed this analysis

[@ZephyrusAsmodeus]

I absolutely love the way you look at things, you seem like a very insightful, thoughtful person, and I love your videos.

[@sweekrititiwari9753]

that selfish bear killed a selfless man . Tim wanted to protect them and he did it too . but one of the mean bears killed him . RIP timothy . thanks for all your protective measures and teachings . dont feel bad but you should have heard other's advices cause they were right , it was too dangerous and risky .

[@Ghost-ch6ik]

sweekriti tiwari ??? That “selfish” bear was a wild animal. Those bears were already being protected by the park so he had no reason to be there. The guy flipped out because he lost a part to Woody Harrelson

[@justlurkingthrough6267]

Imagine calling a wild animal protecting its territory and feeding itself “mean” and “selfish” while calling a narcissistic egomaniac using the bears for his own gain “selfless” bro WHAT

[@scms2528]

One of the best films ever made.

[@LoganCharlesII]

One of the best documentaries ever made.

[@juliemcdowell7176]

This was my favorite of your videos. I’ve been watching you for a long time but just found it today. Very nice work

[@croquervictor4216]

The crazy guy proved that considering Disney's jungle book a documentary is really dangerous. The victims of his absolute stupidity are the bears that had to be killed (more than 10 they say) and his poor girlfriend.

[@Angela-tc4nv]

He didn't force his girlfriend to go...

[@ManiacalViolet]

My ex was a documentary film student. We met in 2007, and this film was shown to me, the girlfriend, to get an idea about his world. I was raised in a very strict religious household and had little exposure to media. My ex eventually took to locking me in rooms with films he thought I should see, even though the images scared or disturbed me, even though I was crying. He had gone to India to make a documentary but got addicted to heroin instead. It wasn't until I felt deeply trapped that it became clear to me he was a pedophile. THOUSANDS of images of Russian teenagers. He would give me powerful antipsychotic medication so I would sleep for two days and "stop being jealous". Grizzly Man was always used as an example of what he wanted to produce. Whenever I would point out the tragedy that was Amy's death, I was the bad guy. When I asked him to stop taking pictures of random women on the street without their consent because it was wrong and made me feel ugly, I was told I was "censoring his art". The self absorbed ass really thought that he was both Herzog and Treadwell, that other living things existed for him to "expose" or "display". Leaving him saved my life, but I will never ever date another person who says they are a film maker or documentarian.

[@caseyclover1647]

I'm absolutely disgusted by people saying he was in the wrong. I believe in human liberty to choose, he made a decision which made him happy, he knew the risks and consciously made a decision to do what he loved, it's sad that those rangers shot the bear who attacked Timothy, no one is responsible for your actions other than you yoursef.

[@Davemmmason]

TIM made a choice NOT to carry bear mace on his person and in his camp. A decision that cost him and Amy their lives. Camping overnight , late in the season, in a bear sanctuary is very high risk. He knew this and went ahead with his plan anyway. He was, of all people, the one who should have had a back up defence to protect his work as well as his girlfriend against harm. His huberous cost him his life as well as the lives of two of the bears he cared about. The world is NOT a better place without Timothy I deeply appreciate his work and will always wonder what future mysteries Timothy would have brought to light for the world to enjoy - Dave M

[@matt-kv1nu]

today I will camp in the middle of one of the trails bears frequently use, what could possibly go wrong?

[@daviddring2365]

Lots of line crossing! The man who loved the bears so much he allowed himself to be shat out by one!

[@JFRULESOK]

This is the first time I've accessed your channel. I subscribed

[@ericguerrero7352]

Saw grizzly man.... loved it

[@robinvik1]

Big Joel: "What can Herzog's editorializing tell us about filmmaking?" Herzog: "What can Treadwell's life and death tell us about nature, the universe and ourselves?" Treadwell: "I like bears."

[@iwantthe80sback59]

I’m lol. Literally!

[@scotosborne2893]

Can we feed the mortition to the bear as well

[@theworldisavampire3346]

Even Herzog had a bent, an agenda. Treadwell presented himself fantastically & inauthentic because of it, but Herzog also tints the lens with his own bias. The truth is vastly more complicated. Also, Herzong doesn't bother to express how eccentric the people Timothy surrounded himself with. Most would call them granola munching tree huggers. Most fascinating was the bizarre portrayal of the coroner. Massively creepy. Also the equally weirdness of Timothy's own parents. It was crazy to me that Herzog did not explore why Timorhy was attacked. Those bears are highly unlikely to attack humans. They are in a bountiful environment. What did he do in those moments to step over that line.

[@leleofthevalley2900]

I truly hoped he still lived ! he’s so passionate about bears 🐻 now they’re together forever but in a different dimension !! great guy !!