Ground Loops

[@davidnguyen5028]

It would be great to see actual connections with actual ground loops

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Good idea. I'll try to make a demonstration video.

[@Menimitz]

I love the way you illustrate your videos. It really helps reinforce the material. I went to college for EE but focused in digital circuits and your stuff really helps clear up radio and analog problems. Also helps me explain these things to others.

[@TechTins_Projects]

I have just recently built my first amp (Basic LM386 with 9v Battery) and it howls like a banshee. I been hunting down trying to figure it all out. Noise etc. how it works. This short video has been the real deal for me as it has explained the hum noise problem perfectly. Great video along with all your others. Many thanks!

[@jonpeltier5768]

I feel like I have a much better understanding of what ground loops are, after watching this. I have watched many videos about this and never walked away with the impression that the shielding becomes a transmitter of the interference instead of a drain. Thank you!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks for your comment.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

I had been doodling with drawings for a ground loop video for several months, just thinking about how to explain it. It was a fun thing to think about because I was remembering some of the interesting problems a ground loop caused. Thanks.

[@TheOzthewiz]

We used 1" wide ground strap to connect all the "peripheral" equipment to the building ground point at Control Data Corp (major computer manufacturer) 50 years ago, to avoid ground loops! When we hooked up the 60cy power (fans), we NEVER jumpered the power ground to the chassis ground. This was SOP for connecting peripherals and mainframes to power!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Yes this 100+ year old technology works well.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Equipment will have an earth ground connection, if there is only one wire connected then there is no possibility of a ground loop. If there is two, then you must trace the two wires to make sure there is no loop. The ground/shield connection to pin one of an XLR is a standard configuration.

[@robertwagner9877]

Excellent explanation of a simple problem which is sometimes devious and hard to trace. it is always better to correct the cause than solve a symptom. Sincere respect, Rob

[@maxheadrom3088]

On your drawing all grounds are connected to the same point. Could there be ground loops even in that configuration? (I can imagine because wires are not superconductors, ddps can apear even if good practice grounding is implemented - they may be tiny but can cause noise on signals that will be amplified). Thanks!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

If you have more then one ground you have a problem.

[@ms2333]

About a month ago there was a discussion on a carrier equipment email list about grounding and it was split fairly evenly between two camps. One side held all equipment should be connected via green wire to the racks which should then be grounded to a separate ground bar. The other side held that this is completely unnecessary because all equipment is grounded via the ground prong of the AC power and eventually earth ground, so additional grounds could cause ground loops. What do you think?

[@tasmith1969]

Excellent explanation! I've wondered for years how ground loops make noise.

[@Chataou]

One question, doesn't the noise flowing through the cable to the chassis (without a loop) induce noise on the lead conductor?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

It's like draining off static.

[@tahmad20]

Sir, you know the best way of teaching. Many thanks from Pakistan

[@hakanozturk7442]

Thank you so much for your explanation. This is a very clear, useful and informative tutorial.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks and your welcome.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

I would need a little more information. Lifting the ground, do you mean that there is no ground? Or is one end grounded?

[@gmcjetpilot]

Rick I've read huge debates about ground loops. What you say is spot on, well explained as usual. However is there ANY time you'd want to ground both ends of a shielded cable? The only thing I can think of is a special case, where the pot or jack for example is isolated from the chassis (thus no ground loop). Than you can use the shield as a wire or the negative ground of that component (pot, jack, switch). People debate this ground one or both ends of shields. You settled it nicely.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks. It is hard to visualize why to many grounds is not good. Glad the drawings helped.

[@MrFryfish]

Does this rule or simptom applies to car audio as well? If so, which end should have the shield grounded? Battery end or equipment end?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks. Only have one path to ground.

[@Steve-ct1yr]

Really nicely explained! I just have a couple of questions: 1 -In what way is an equipment installed, in order to make it have more than one ground? 2 -Why do some XLRs have a 'bridge' or a jumper wire between the shield (pin 1) and the chassis of the plug?

[@matthewtaylor7316]

best explanation I have seen. Kinda like Ground Loops For Dummies and it makes it perfectly clear with both equipment cabinets and shielded cables like my guitar cord. Thanks.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

The outside of the wire is a shield and the center wire is the signal. If the shield is connect to ground at both ends then you have the possibility of a ground loop. Usually the shield is connected at one end only. If you have a ground loop try opening the shield at one end. Also if you can turn the plug around on some of the equipment, try that.

[@ramili0711]

Great Video, I think I'm troubling with the same issue. I don't understand what that other end it? One side seems like an RCA cable connected to the device, what's the other side and why there's only one wire? 3:47 . Thanks!

[@rodrigod.m.9572]

Thanks Sir. Your explanation is logical and now I can understand why two or more wires connected to ground are a problem.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thank you, and your welcome.

[@joe5cent]

3) The problem in audio primarily occurs for a couple of reasons. a) Since the 90s construction techniques bring the shield ground path onto the circuit board where it couples to the active audio path. If the shield by passes via a conductor or metal case this is better. In pro audio circles is the 'pin 1 problem'.b) No circuit is perfect, there is always some leakage of current from the power supply to somewhere on the box, when this box connects to another box with a pin 1 problem you get hum.

[@danbogel7739]

Good Morning! Thank you for this explanation. I restore vintage stereo consoles and hi-fi's. I seem to encounter plenty of ground loops and it is like voodoo trying to understand why. Your video has helped me understand.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thank you! It can seem like magic. I have seen some interesting RF problem and audio problems.

[@Randreash]

Can you explain why "Lifting the ground" stops noise? It does work.

[@ratedrsuperstarthega]

I have a desktop PC (running windows 10) which I use for guitar amp simulation. The signal chain goes this way... Guitar -> Audio interface (USB bus powered) -> PC -> DAW (plugins) -> Out from Audio interface to ->Speakers. Things that are connected to AC power are, PC cabinet + Screen + Speaker + Modem router. Everything is connected into a single power strip (surge protector) which is connected to a UPS and the UPS is connected to wall. So everything is grounded at same place, I believe since everything runs of a same wall outlet. I have USB noise and interference noise into the speaker which just won't go away. If I connect a 2 prong (Ground lift) wire to speaker, the noise goes away, but this is dangerous. So how do I get rid of this noise with using 3 wire? Where can I spot the ground loop in this signal path? Thanks a lot!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

You could unplug each item one at a time until the trouble goes away. The earth ground is just about the same as power ground. Between earth ground and power ground in my house is about 8 Ohm. Both are usually connected at the breaker box on the same connection.

[@ratedrsuperstarthega]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio 8 Ohms is very nice value for the ground wire to earth resistance. The noise goes away if I use 2 prong plug on the speaker. If I use 3 prong plug, then noise comes back. The USB is generating noise in my opinion inside the computer. But using speaker without a grounding pin is said to be dangerous by many. That's why I use 3 pin everywhere. Do you think it's OK to remove ground pin from speaker wire cable and keep only the PC grounded by 3 pin?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

You have proofed that the ground loop is in the earth ground. That’s what a ground loop is, to many grounds. What speakers are you using? Are they computer speakers, stereo HiFI speakers , or home make speakers. Give me the manufacturer and model number.

[@ratedrsuperstarthega]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio My speaker is KRK Rokit 5 G3. It's studio monitor speaker. All the equipment like PC cabinet, Speaker, Screen are connected to a power strip and that power strip is connected to a UPS. So all is being grounded at one single point. Where is a ground loop in this? Maybe I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Guide me through it.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

I see your speakers use the standard three prong plug. I cannot determine from here if it is save to use your speakers with out using the earth ground. I would contact ROKIT tech support. For-sure you have identified where the ground loop is, and as the source of the noise.

[@velocci6666]

Hi, when you added that other device to the bottom chain, how does it get connected to the middle chain? Would adding an amplifier and connecting it to a receiver using audio cables and where they are each plugged into different receptacles be an example of this?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

All units only have one connection to ground. If you have more than one path to ground, you have a ground loop.

[@velocci6666]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio I hear a buzzing in my speakers. all components are plugged into one outlet and the TV is plugged into another outlet on a separate circuit. so there shouldn't be any ground loop right? but I still get a buzz in my speakers. if I raise the volume of my amplifier, the buzz doesn't get louder. does that mean its not ground loop?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

@@velocci6666 The buzzing not changing with changing volume means that the noise is coming through the power supply or is coming from the amplifier power supply. I would leave the amplifier pluged in and unplug each component one at a time yo see if the buzzing goes away.

[@velocci6666]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio i already tried that and it doesnt go away

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

@@velocci6666 So it sounds like if the amplifier just has speakers hooked up to it, and no inputs, you still have the buzzing noise. You said that the level of noise does not change with the volume. This usually means the problem is in the power supply.

[@jeffdyer2109]

I know this is an old video but my question is this you should conect all your cabinets together but not ground them to a separate ground because they are already grounded to the main house ground rod. Why would you want to make a separate awesome ground so that any big spike would more easily go thru your radio and to ground rather than go to your main house ground. Path of least resistance. Correct? Jeff

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

The age of a video has no relationship with the accuracy of the content.

[@Dexterprog]

So how do you solve this too many grounds problem described when adding the equipment taht when connected, completes the loop?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Have only one path to ground.

[@Dexterprog]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio I do, but still have this ground loop, how can this even be possible?

[@xxloot]

You may also want to star ground your connections if your devices are not decoupled in case you get ground bounce, due to the series inductance in the wires( around 0.5mH /mm) .

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Yes ground loops can cause a problem, but they don't always cause a problem. If I am working at a 50K watt AM transmitter site almost always a ground loop will cause a problem because of all that strong RF. Had a Chevy dealership that was picking up the station on their PA system, a new install. Make some recommendations to the installers and they fixed the grounding. I do what works, in other words if I get it working or if it is working, I don't fix.

[@andreeadobre3190]

Best explanation I could find, thank you very much!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks and your welcome.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks. Some of the problems I ran across seemed like magic. But most were noise problems which always meant a ground field and cabinet ground inspection. I also had audio equipment noise/hum. It is interest that no grounds and to many grounds can be a problem.

[@yesadamhuang]

Sir, thanks you so much. This is a very useful knowledge.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks. No matter what form the metal shield takes, if there is a current flow in it, it will produce a magnetic field.

[@Musicradio77Network]

I have my Revere S16 16mm sound movie projector and I did fixed the amplifier and it has a hum. So I got the service manual that I received from eBay and checked the lists of parts that the power resistor that came with it is a 20ohm, 25W power resistor which causes interference with the ground loop. In addition, I also got a GE 12AU6 replacement vacuum tube to replace the original and it still runs fine, because the original Lafayette 12AU6 tube is dead.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Great troubleshooting Thanks

[@joe5cent]

Thanks for your post, I am glad you are not advocating use 3 to 2 prong adaptors. Part of your explanation is lacking though. 1) Misconception one : Ground wires are not 'garbage collectors' for noise. They are there to provide a safe path to return power line voltage back to a comon ground reference, avoiding using a human or soemthing else as a path. 2) Big kudos for recognizing it takes current flow to produce a 'hum or buzz'.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks Poxican Ground loop problems can cause very weird troubles, hope you fine it.

[@D_Vice88]

i had an issue with ground loop with gaming headphones which are connected to the console 3 ways! the audio input to the headphones amp box, then a usb power connection to the headphones amp box, then from the amp box a mic input from the consoles controller. I started to power the usb without the console and not use the same mic when on PC and now have new headphones and a loop isolator coming in the mail. but it still usually occurs if the headphones mic and power source are from the same machine and it blew out two pairs!

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks. I hope this video helps the audio home brew people. Some ground loop problems can seem like magic.

[@Thermionman]

this really clarifies what ground loops are!Thankyou!

[@tonyperry6702]

Rick, I wanted to build a AA5 radio from all loose components and add convenient test points to learn more about how they function. I'm looking for recommendations on an AM only AA5 circuit to build. Any suggestions?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Crosley Corp. Model: E10BE

[@ramili0711]

You lost me, what do you by both ends. One side is the RCA right? Signal in the middle and the shield around it is the ground. On the other side, you only have one wire connected, is that the signal? or the ground? I feel like I may have the same problem, that's why I'm trying to figure what that other end is.

[@Chataou]

So, is the EMC only reason to avoid ground loops?

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Any Magnetic Field. Noise Audio RF

[@ChongMcBong]

Thanks, this video really helped. i already fixed my ground loop with a cheap ebay isolator, but this will certainly help me to trace the source :)

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

I did think about how to present this for a while. Did other stuff, and then thought about it again on and off. Doodled some drawings, did other stuff est. Thanks.

[@Poxican]

I think this video may well have helped me solve an issue I'm having with a circuit I've built. Thanks for the video :)

[@jturbert]

Finally, I get it. Thank you.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks matthew taylor

[@baghdadiabdellatif1581]

Thank you. God bless you 🙏

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thank you, and your welcome.

[@jwaint06]

i really wish my lecturer spoke like you :) thanks

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks xFunnyFreemanx

[@GroverCricketDaisy]

Fascinating and good to know.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thank you. Very weird things can happen.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks Thermionman1970

[@Chris-Ould]

Great explanation !

[@elektrodenio]

I learned something useful thanks :) .

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

If you had it connected at both ends you would a loop.

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks jwaint06

[@joe5cent]

4) In the IT world of CAT 5 cables the systems are built on the concept of 'swamped' ground. Everything is connected to ground. At 10 to 100Mhz this works great. For audio it may not. 5) The Taylor guitar video is incorrect and unsafe. Anytime you use a grond cheater as they suggest you are now using the guitar cord to carry any accidental current to ground. 6) Go to Jensen transformers for a good whitepaper on ground. It's techie but accurate. 7) Use high quality isolation transofmers! thnx

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks tubetwang

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks patchcords

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thaks nivek192

[@sonuverma2796]

Sir I using earthing for cnc router machine, and computer and machine controller computer ,so how to given earthing each items, it's series type earthing, or make three wire from earthing rod and connect ,pallrer type please guide me 🙏

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Does each equipment have a three prong plug?

[@sonuverma2796]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio yes all have three point

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

@@sonuverma2796 I would use the three prong plugs as designed by the manufacturer.

[@sonuverma2796]

@@AllAmericanFiveRadio your mean I connect earthing rod 8mm thick wire in connector, and take earthing for each items pallrer connect

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

@@sonuverma2796 You plug the thee prong plug into a three prong plug socket.

[@freytoday]

Thank you very much for this lesson, was very clear! A problem I had, wich I now understand and can solve. =)

[@xFunnyFreemanx]

Really helpful thanks

[@dhawalsinghkushawaha8827]

thankyou so much

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Thanks and your welcome

[@colindesouza672]

Colin De Souza if you have incoming Earth, neutral and live wires to your pay metre and then to your single phase DB electrical board ok, as you explained and we all know world's over that is the standard of practice, if you connect from the incoming main electrical source before you get the DB board electrical board connecting points inside of the paint meat before it goes to my DV boat incoming neutral and incoming Earth that is supplied to the homestead together at the point of the electrical paid metre that is the Neutral and earth ?? I have many problems it's seems to me like I'm fighting a losing battle and i'm busy with attorneys now the power company have insulated new electrical infrastructure and the problem started the day they started the new installation of the electrical system the inside of the pre-paid metre before that was still in good condition and there was three connecting points neutral Earth and live inside of the pre-paid metre and with the newer pre-paid metre there is three connecting points Earth neutral and live before it goes to my DB board electrical board connecting points but what I saw the electrician gays did is that they connected neutral and earth together inside of the pre-paid metre after that I had electrical devices breaking for no reason at all then it seems that my current is just running away somewhere and I'm just buying units after unit and it does not work for me I had my electrical geyser and Stove all been disconnected from the system but still the same then there is a deafening sound like bells ringing in the distance best to describe it it's like a pulsing soond?? then the city power company is still accusing me of high electrical usage to be honest I'm only using sometimes the lights at night that includes the TV and then the kettle for boiling water to make tea or coffee I have been on a Shelf investigation for the past two years which city management power company which I bought two cases now already against him for the electrical installation there was private contractors commissioned by the city's power company and it was not the power company's own electricians, so one other thing that I want to state here is that if I place a electric sensor device to the concrete flooring of the house the electric sensor device will Sirens the alert red flash with large beads that it detects electric on the concrete flooring inside and outside my house in shirts that's why I want to ask the question is this a ground loop that is present here ?? because there is a Earth bar in said of the DB electrical board and it is not connected to the electrical prepaid metre ? !now where is the drain releasing charging too if there is overload ?? if it is not connected to the Earth and neutral that is connected together inside of the of the pre-paid metre before it's connect to the DB electrical board is there anyone that can help me with an answer for this half of my family wages is going to electric bills let me quickly note to you with the intriguing part of the story in 2018 the city power company installation new electrical infrastructure,data meter electrical systems, they forced me out of my old metre and the same for other residents also in the area then exactly 7 months after that they serve me with the letter where they accuse me of tampering with the metre for stealing electric but you must now remember that there was no electrical inspection of any shorts at any given time their allegations relateing to a claim they make during the period of 2018 it appears in the letter almost like they have discovered a infraction on their electrical system or Grit they know where explained that they are doing a upgrade of the entire neighborhood and electrical system but I fight them through all of that with their own investigations and each time I show them that they are manufacturing they are lying they plays me on a penalized system which so whatever I buy in unit almost half of that gets deducted immediately they tell me that I own 21000 but I don't give up I fight then for all it is legal Colin De Souza but in 2021 the city power company sent new letter stating that there was no tempering with a meter but it was a m that was not properly working and therefore they want to ask me that I must give a reason as to why no electric bought during the period of 2017 now as you will see they keep on adding on this so-called charts but they're also giving away that they are that this is part of their mandatory all system that they are implementing across the billboard so I am in the week to come going to see my attorney and trying to explain to him this whole thing that's I need the Independent electrical evaluate what does City power companies inspector out on my property to do a evaluation the problem is not so much the of the trumped-up charges they bringing along because I have all the evidence that they are lying and it's trumped-up charges covering up for a cheap Chinese electrical installation ? but it is what they have created afterwards with my electrical system

[@AllAmericanFiveRadio]

Send me a diagram