Growth vs Income for Retirement

[@armchairincomechannel]

Snowball Dividend Tracker (Create a Free Account, and the 10% Discount will appear under "Subscribe"): armchairincome.link/snow

[@wealthadventures]

Good talk Armchair! Thanks for the opportunity. Cheers!🍻 - Dave

[@armchairincomechannel]

Always great to chat with you too :)

[@Crockerfeller]

@wealthadventures would you please elaborate a bit more about your view of CEFs? I believe in his vid the take away is that you are not a fan of CEFs?

[@wealthadventures]

@@Crockerfeller I'm not a fan of the fees with CEFs. They are also fairly complicated products that often sell at a discount or premium to the NAV. I think that sometimes misleads people that think they can game that system looking at historical information. They tend to use leverage to generate larger returns which does not always pan out. I suppose I've just always found other investments more attractive.

[@Lexusdude59]

Absolutely love the two videos with the two of you interviewing each other. You guys are the best source for us "common" investors. Thank you!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks! I'm glad that our chats are worth your time. KZbin is a great way to find other people with the same interests. I could chat about investing for hours...not the case for all my friends.

[@YIWOTY]

Another video from my two favorite financial KZbinrs! Fantastic!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Wow, thanks!

[@citizenoftheyearCC]

Finally the longer version of the intro music we have been dreaming for

[@armchairincomechannel]

At last! That was a good chunk of it, but there's still a little bit more...

[@Overloard57]

You have the BEST interview videos. Very well planned out with good discussion. Really liked how you handled the lost audio too!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks! Had to make lemonade out of lemons, but that's ok.

[@fernandonyc007]

Great job guys, I enjoy hearing both sides of the income/growth strategy. Today I am doing 80% growth, 20% income.

[@armchairincomechannel]

There's a lot to be said for the hybrid approach! Thanks for watching.

[@thomasarcher4034]

John D. Rockefeller said that his only joy in life was cashing dividend checks.

[@JerryJ84]

Sounds like he needed more hobbies.

[@TonyCox1351]

He should have tried video games

[@ttcc5273]

Big Mr Burns energy

[@armchairincomechannel]

It's not my only joy, but it never gets old!

[@thomasarcher4034]

@@armchairincomechannel If we imagine how large his dividend checks were (without even correcting for inflation), his attitude is more understandable. I get a kick out of receiving dividends. I don't know why but it's more gratifying than making the same amount of money selling a stock for a capital gain. Go figure!

[@TonyCox1351]

These interviews are such a breath of fresh air. You both listen well, allow the other to speak, the vibe is relaxed, it’s no wonder both your investment strategies are successful

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoy them. I enjoy making them (and so does Dave).

[@Steverino70]

Both videos were very interesting especially since Income Architect, Armchair Income and Wealth Adventures are the top 3 that I watch.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Sounds like you love income! Thanks for watching.

[@Mr.T98765]

2 of the best in the biz. Cheers, guys!

[@armchairincomechannel]

That's very kind of you!

[@dondinero13]

Awesome video and very informative guys. Thank you for this 🙏

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad it was helpful!

[@tomfoolery8468]

This was great ! Much appreciated. i feel like I'm working on a hybrid of both your strategies.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Hybrid can work quite well. Thanks for watching!

[@sweetdividends]

The musical montage when you lost sound! That's probably the longest clip of your music I've heard.

[@armchairincomechannel]

You're right. I like the music so even though the sound problem drove me crazy, being able to hear more of the song was a plus.

[@momdittomomditto7705]

Glad you dropped this one day earlier than your usual Sundays! Good interview with Dave. To me, he always looks exhausted which i attribute to his making bank on his option plays. 😂

[@armchairincomechannel]

Due to the time difference, we record early in the morning. He normally looks energized! I got my days mixed up....maybe because every day is a "weekend" now.

[@richarddaken6770]

I'd so love to hear the entire armchair income song!!!!!! It so rocks🤘

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you like it! I'm working on how to include more of the song but that's challenging because it's not a music channel. I have some ideas....

[@CalmerThanYouAre1]

Another great interview! Thanks for sharing your perspectives as always, fellas. Two channels that definitely need to make it to 100K subs!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Much appreciated! Only 78k subs to go :)

[@Lawyerup904]

Always enjoy watching you two!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks so much!

[@DeanPalma]

On Saturday? Had to double check my calendar. LOL Good interview nice to contemplate different investing styles.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you enjoyed it! I got my days mixed up. I thought it was Sunday. Oops 😬 Back to Sunday uploads next week.

[@TonyCox1351]

my man doesn’t even know what day of the week it is - retirement must be treating him well 😂

[@makeiteasydiy5424]

Excellent collaboration video!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Labbernese77]

Great interview. Love the humor too.

[@armchairincomechannel]

It's a lot of fun chatting with Dave. I'm glad you enjoyed it too.

[@Seoulsearch616]

Love both your senses of humor mixed with very useful info. Thank you! 👍🏼 I also enjoy the theme song!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Come for the music and the jokes, stay for the investing discussion ;)

[@johnbeeck2540]

Enjoy the comparative investing strategies. You are both personable and approachable individuals as your video's illustrate! Thanks for the enjoyable investing discussions!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you like them! Thanks for taking the time to comment. I always enjoy chatting with Dave.

[@jamesec1949]

Wow, what a great show from my two favorites. This was especially enjoyable because, imho, you two were the most comfortable with each other as I've seen. And why not? The more we do the better we get. And in this case, the more I learn from two very knowledgable and experienced investors. Your content was excellent. Wonderful exchanges. So looking forward to next time. Thanks guys.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks for your feedback. I agree, the more of these we do, the more we forget about the cameras and just enjoy the conversation. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@brucef1299]

Awesome conversation. I follow you both and have thoroughly enjoyed your individual content. Having you two come together for occasional chats to discuss strategies motivates me to dig just a little deeper into what type of investor I want to be in the future. Leaning into the hybrid strategy at the moment. Appreciate the opportunity to hear the unique perspectives you both share with us as actual practitioners of growth, income, and growth with income investors.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Our pleasure! If our discussion causes you to think about what you want and how to get it, then that's time well spent.

[@SummitMan165]

Excellent épisode !! I Watched on a Saturday this week !! Good works to both of you !! 👌👌👌💪💪💪

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you enjoyed it! I lost track of the days. Back to Sunday upload next week.

[@international_dividend]

We finally get to hear more of the song!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you like it. Sometimes it gets stuck in my head during editing. Still haven't found a way to play the whole thing...not yet.

[@MessedUpParodies]

Love your videos because you do stuff like this, you mix it up. That keeps it interesting, ya never know what to expect. Personally, I prefer your investing style over Dave's, it suits me better. However, I agree that Dave's strategy will win in the end, but who cares? Let's enjoy those dividends today, because tomorrow is not guaranteed.

[@armchairincomechannel]

I appreciate that! Expect the unexpected :)

[@Reza16888]

Good interview! There is a lot to learn from my two favorite youtube financial channels celebrities. Thanks!

[@armchairincomechannel]

You're very kind. Thanks for watching, and I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion.

[@gordonechols9906]

You guys are the best on KZbin, although I am strictly an income investor due to age, I follow you both regularly and get great ideas. Hope you guys will do more videos together in the future...

[@armchairincomechannel]

Wow, thank you! I hope so too.

[@MrSimonious]

With about 6 months to go before I bail on Corp USA, these are my favorite pair to watch!

[@armchairincomechannel]

What an exciting time! Thanks for watching and best of look with your soon to be freedom.

[@charlescostigliola5478]

Great video! Follow both of you.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. I follow Wealth Adventures too :)

[@ttcc5273]

I have learned a ton from both of you, great to see your continued collaboration. I noticed you were saying collateralized debt obligations (CDOs) when the funds you were referring to are collateralized loan obligations (CLOs like EIC and ECC). It’s unfortunate naming, they should have called them “secured corporate floating rate debt obligations”

[@armchairincomechannel]

You're right, we were discussing CLO's and they often get confused with CDO's.

[@carlostheman1671]

Love it 👍. Thanks for the awesome video!! Really good questions!!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you enjoyed it! I enjoyed chatting with Dave.

[@lindsaynewell6319]

Really interesting discussion. New sub.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Glad you found it useful, and welcome to the Community!

[@paulmea3166]

I do the 3 bucket method. After subtracting 5 years of living expenses, 50% income 50% growth. The 5 years is put in cd's/ cash/ and treasuries. It's my hedge against a large downturn when income goes down.

[@armchairincomechannel]

That's a very logical strategy, thanks for sharing.

[@shawnbrewer7]

I was there, casually watching some of your older videos, and then BAM you posted another video!

[@armchairincomechannel]

KZbin knows how to deliver in a timely fashion! Hope you enjoy it :)

[@Krautlander]

Great video as always. One of my last buys was ADX. ADX changedthe dividend policy and should be 8% plus. The only problem could be the volatility. But it has a long track record (1929).

[@armchairincomechannel]

ADX is a great fund for the long term, if you don't mind volatile income and annual payouts. Impressive history.

[@RobertBrown-yn9tx]

Great interview! The way I look at things, I'd lean towards Dave's strat. before retirement and then transition towards AI's shortly before and into retirement. I'm currently on the Income side of things since I don't like selling my Growth stocks and am currently retired. I maintain an IRA (INCOME) as well as a Growth portfolio (regular brokerage) so I can transfer RMD's from IRA to the Growth as needed. Don't buy/sell options since it's too much work for me and I'm not knowledgeable in that area... (never went into Real Estate). (ps. It is addicting !)

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks for sharing your approach. There's something to be said for the hybrid approach.

[@fionafresh8435]

The extended mix!😂🤣😂

[@armchairincomechannel]

Yes! I like the theme song but its a challenge to find ways to play more than a few seconds of it...until today!

[@Ronnieleec]

you’re back! Yea!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Always fun to chat with Dave. Thanks for watching!

[@oneeyedjack8806]

Sure am buying a lot of Spring Rolls with MAIN. 😵‍💫

[@armchairincomechannel]

Every time I sell MAIN I experience the joy of profiting from appreciation and the disappointment of selling a fantastic investment.

[@dubsdolby9437]

I buy some grow and then sell and turn into income assets. I live predominantly off dividends as well

[@armchairincomechannel]

That works! Thanks for sharing.

[@BenjaminHansen]

Thanks. Regarding Snowball, I want to use it but it sounds like there are difficulties getting it to play well with Fidelity.

[@armchairincomechannel]

I haven't heard of any issues with Fidelity. I suggest doing a free trial to check if the syncing is to your satisfaction.

[@ScottOrchard-rt1wh]

For the Armchair portfolio, what will be your strategy for an economic downturn. Do you plan on riding it down and just collect the dividends?

[@armchairincomechannel]

Yes I do. I don't try to time the market. During an economic downturn all equity portfolios and most credit portfolios will drop in value. I'm looking for the income investments that I think will be most likely to sustain their income during a downturn.

[@stedawi]

Nice inclusion, really enjoyed both sessions. Just wondering if you might bring Garrett (Neos) back again (or just yourself is great also) to discuss distinctions between MAXI, BITO, & BTCI...specifically any significant distinctions in the Futures/Options strategies used, as well as the income vs growth topic. Have the same 3 call option funds as your portfolio, and may swap a bond fund for their HYBI as some point. I share Dave's like for their products and management. Thanks ...great interview.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks for the suggestion and that very topic is in discussions. Likely to happen before year end.

[@theguytoknow000]

Do you ever consider bonds for your emergency fund?

[@armchairincomechannel]

I don't. I have plenty of bonds in various funds but not for that purpose. My fixed costs are high, I have plenty of insurance, no debt, and credit cards that could handle emergencies. So I don't like to sit on a lot of cash.

[@santiagonegroni9032]

My biggest fear is a 1965-1982 market once I retire

[@yo293049]

Income sir!!!

[@armchairincomechannel]

It looms as a possibility. I wouldn't want to have to sell a piece of my portfolio each month to pay the bills if that happens.

[@johnspelman8976]

I always wonder why people do those types of options themselves instead of just buying an Eaton Vance fund to do it for you

[@armchairincomechannel]

Some people enjoy the process, it's like a game, except you receive money instead of points.

[@JaniceAlvarado-p4e]

I retired at age 53, so I am in my early 60s. Many of them resisted me because they couldn't understand the idea of not working if it wasn't necessary. I considered the phases of my life. I worked very hard to achieve what I have now, but in my last years, I owe it to myself to "stop and smell the roses." In my instance, I departed the nation after retiring and currently reside in Latin America. It made it possible for me to appreciate my new surroundings while escaping all the bad things that were going on in America. Nobody that I know of regrets retiring has yet to come to me.

[@armchairincomechannel]

We have a very similar story, except you went to S. America and I went to SE Asia. Thanks for sharing your experience and enjoy your freedom!

[@astraanne4603]

Another question: CLO dividends change with Fed rate? I noticed JAAA hardly paid anything in 2021 time frame.

[@armchairincomechannel]

I haven't research JAAA, but generally the loans inside of funds like that were paying very little back when interest rates were low. If the Fed drops rates back down then eventually, as the loans cycle through the portfolio, they will, in turn, pay less.

[@Nemo-yn1sp]

Excellent! Mine is a combo of the two, leaning more toward Armchair Investor's strategy because I'm retired and counting on my dividend income. I also sell covered calls and do a little shorter-term trading. I have bitcoin and miners (mostly for options or short term growth). Systemic foundational risk is my concern in the coming four years. Do peon investors like me get to have stocks? Maybe not as a solo senior woman. Anyway, excellent interview, thanks and GLTA!🙃

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks for sharing, and it sounds like you have some nice diversification there. Enjoy your retirement !

[@mikek3124]

A KZbinr had commented on the neos bitcoin etf (BTCI). That Reinvesting is similar to bitcoin mining because the fund holds actually bitcoin spot ETFs. What do you guys think of this statement?

[@armchairincomechannel]

BTCI holds the spot ETF ticker: HODL, as 25% of its portfolio. It also writes call options on the BITO Bitcoin futures ETF. I don't know much about Bitcoin mining so I don't follow the similarity. I plan to look into BTCI in more detail before the end of the year.

[@mlwilliams4407]

Another fantastic collab...thanks! Quick question...do you happen to know if WealthAdventures options trading is automated at all? There's a ton of low risk / high probability semi-passive income selling OTM puts (for 8+% annual yield). Not interested in semi-passive anymore so hoping there's an automated capability to make that income type passive.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Based on the option videos I've watched on Dave's channel, my understanding is that he does all of his option trading manually. He also invests in some covered call funds.

[@fialee8ca132]

Collateralized debt is generally for companies that want a lower interest rate since they are offering collateral, or a company that can't get a loan due to credit risk without offering collateral. That said, the etf you previously discussed looked at the second to the bottom quality tranche. Even if it's collateralized at 80% of value, if it went belly up and only got 50% at liquidation, then that lower tranche won't get back the full amount or nothing at all. A RE example, it's kinda like buying into a third or fourth trust deed... it's got a house pledged against it (collateral), but if it went into foreclosure, will you get anything after auction?

[@armchairincomechannel]

Thanks for your insight on CLO's. EIC's huge yield comes with risk, as you point out. It's a matter of whether you want exposure to that asset and risk/reward profile. I like it as a small percentage of my portfolio.

[@fialee8ca132]

@armchairincomechannel Agree that a small % might work out, and probably won't mess up any plans. In general, most RE loans work out...but the risk is typically all or nothing.

[@networkteacher1]

Due to this year's rather nice uptick, JPMorgan is estimating a return of about 3%/year in S&P over the next decade. On the surface that would seem to bode well for income investing as people look to redeploy from growth and tech. So, the question then becomes, what kind of effects will a subdued S&P have on income ETFs?

[@armchairincomechannel]

I don't try to time the market, but a flat S&P 500 would make selling growth stocks to pay the bills challenging. I'll be sticking with income investing. By reinvesting a portion of my income, I can stay ahead of inflation while still receiving a consistent income stream.

[@stevestelk7627]

I sense a joint venture coming

[@armchairincomechannel]

I'm all ears...

[@garythomas3150]

It’s another “Armchair Adventures” mash up!

[@armchairincomechannel]

Yes! Always fun to chat with Dave.

[@astraanne4603]

real estate is more reliable source of income from my experience

[@blktauna]

too much work and to capital intensive for me.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Real estate is great, but you have to enjoy it or it feels like a lot of work.

[@Asstronauts93]

bonds being 40% is way too much. growth could be 40. income 40 and bonds 20

[@armchairincomechannel]

I think Dave will end up adjusting the ratios to be closer to what you suggested.

[@ananditagangwar9988]

Stupid move to collect "growth", sell and pay capital gains and then buy covered call ETFs to get income. I buy cc ETFs now and compound more with the distributions. Its alarming how many people dont understand compounding.

[@TonyCox1351]

Obviously he’s doing it mostly in tax sheltered accounts so there is no capital gains bud. And you’re paying a higher tax rate on your covered call etf dividends than he is on his capital gains so your comment is double pointless

[@armchairincomechannel]

I agree that tax is an important consideration. For my tax situation, selling growth and buying income investments made sense. That's not the case for everybody.

[@ananditagangwar9988]

@@TonyCox1351 lol learn what Return of capital means. Its 100% tax deferred income. Like I said. So little real understanding...

[@TonyCox1351]

@@ananditagangwar9988 Dave's investments are also tax deferred, since they are in a tax sheltered account. So Dave can sell them and buy covered call ETFs as he nears retirement, with zero capital gains.

[@TonyCox1351]

@@ananditagangwar9988 learn what an “IRA” is, _everything_ in it is tax deferred.

[@Crockerfeller]

@armchairincomechannel It seems that Dave is not a fan of CEFs per his response in this vid. You had also mentioned you don't hold many? Just wondering if you could please elaborate a bit more on the pros/cons of CEFs vs Open End Mutual Funds or ETFs?

[@armchairincomechannel]

I hold some and don't mind paying the fees. Quite a few of them have excessive fees as Dave pointed out. I also like the opportunity to buy them at a discount to NAV....something that you can't do with ETFs. The pros and cons for all 3 fund types is a longer discussion, perhaps for a video.

[@BTinSF]

Sorry, but I'm a little older so my hero isn't Mr. Burns; it's Scrooge McDuck. Looking forward to having a swimming pool full of cash. Although I have a tiny amount of BTCI, I have more confidence in gold than in Bitcoin for when the government comes to shaft us. I tend to be turned off by anyone who says things like he doesn't like CEFs because their fees are too high. If the total return is good compared to alternative investments in the category and the NAV is stable or growing, I don't begrudge them their fees. To me, if they meet those 2 tests it means their stock pickers are earning their fees. And the simple fact is that the ability to use leverage means that CEFs can be true high yield investments in investment categories where ETFs and regular funds can't or aren't. Mostly these characteristics I seek apply to common stock funds in areas like tech, small caps and emerging markets--areas where straightforward dividends tend to be low and having the diversity of a fund is very advantageous.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Scrooge McDuck is great! I have quite a few CEF's and don't mind paying their fees as long as the performance is there. Thanks for sharing your approach.

[@blackfiree91]

It doesn’t make any sense to hold rental real estate. Sell the house and put it into bitcoin. You will average 40%+ CAGR annually for the next 4 years. And 20-29% every year after. That’s conservative and bearish. Don’t forget Bitcoin doesn’t degrade, require property taxes, need toilets unclogged at 2 am, or have tenants that need to be evicted.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Dave has both! I don't miss dealing with evictions and sewer lines.

[@astraanne4603]

Do you know how to buy "10 Percent Non-Cumulative Non-Voting Perpetual Preferred Stock, Series C - $25.00 per share"? I learned bout EICC from you and I like it.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Haha. That's a mouthful!

[@astraanne4603]

look good for 52

[@armchairincomechannel]

I think he does too!

[@stefanhansen1401]

Bitcoin is the best decision you have ever made

[@armchairincomechannel]

It's on a tear at the moment.

[@paulfiedler9128]

The cabinet choices are already tanking the market. The king of bankruptcy running the government didn't work last time and could be substantially worse this time. As a guy approaching retirement---if that will ever actually be possible---I am deeply worried about the U.S. economy taking a hit that takes a long time to recover from, if it does at all.

[@armchairincomechannel]

Perhaps Dave's global diversification fund suggestions would be of interest. I'll be checking them out.

[@paulfiedler9128]

@@armchairincomechannel Looking forward to it. I read today that the U.S. stock market outpaces the world stock market by a few percentage points. Please make a global diversification video before Donald and Elon sink the good ship America. Cheers.

[@dpragain]

First

[@armchairincomechannel]

Either you watched the video at 8x speed, or you got trigger happy with the comment. Either way, I hope you enjoy the video :)

[@fialee8ca132]

I like Dave, but at 52... the best years of your life is over. You probably have maybe 10 decent years left, and quality of life will drop quickly in your 60s. While making money is fun, but is it the best use of the limited time we have on Earth?

[@TonyCox1351]

He says he enjoys what he does so I’d say the best use of time is doing something you enjoy, no? Sounds like he’s nailing it

[@normansimonsen1203]

It is cool to be inconceivably old and wise and know things to make a difference in the quality of people's lives.

[@armchairincomechannel]

I think he enjoys what he does. That's all that matters! The older I get, the more I value each and every healthy day.

[@wallysta]

Isn't the 20% in Options trading and 10% in income ETFs like JEPI buckets essentially invested in the same thing?

[@TonyCox1351]

@@wallysta they are invested in the same concept but not the same thing. Different options strategies, different underlying, bearish vs bullish, etc