Grumman's Ambitious Twin-Engine Carrier Fighter | Grumman XF5F-1 Skyrocket

[@RexsHangar]

Receive an Amazing New Player Pack, only available for the next 30 days! Play Call of War for FREE on PC or Mobile: 💥 callofwar.onelink.me/q5L6/a5sopa3r F.A.Q Section - Ask your questions here :) Q: Do you take aircraft requests? A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:) Q: How do you decide what aircraft gets covered next? A: Supporters over on Patreon now get to vote on upcoming topics such as overviews, special videos, and deep dives. Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others? A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.

[@henrythewhite]

As someone who has learned about airplane design and construction through your channel, I have to ask: would you ever consider making a video going through the design terms that you often use, with visual examples? I think I've learned most of the terms correctly (dihedral is the positive angle offset from horizontal for wing surfaces, right? and anhedral is the negative offset?), but I'd love to have a single primer with your attention to details and clear examples. Or, if you know of another good source, I'd appreciate that too!

[@violet9214]

I'm now greatly looking forward to a Tigercat video. It's such a sexy aircraft

[@stephenremington8448]

On video suggestions, I may be the last one to find out about this, but I heard that Junkers are going to start making Ju 52's again, sounds interesting.

[@90lancaster]

The Tiger Cat is a really pretty plane.

[@ronalddietz]

😅😅😅APLL ⁹P

[@wildward93]

Ah the XF5F. The ye olde Naboo Starfighter.

[@gustiwidyanta5492]

"Now this is where the fun begins."

[@nickthompson9697]

It kind of is a proto podracer.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

This would be a neat plane to see someone re-create (unarmed) for civilian/stunt/racing use.

[@mattw785]

hey yah, never even thought of that. good catch!

[@subarucar.-584]

​@@MonkeyJedi99 maybe even with turbopros instead

[@henrykeresey8201]

This plane looks so strange it should have been designed by Blohm and Voss.

[@tomppeli.]

A'ight, it ain't _that_ strange lookin'!

[@sim.frischh9781]

No, WAY too symmetrical.

[@petesheppard1709]

Or the Brits. They had a thing for really pug-nosed twin fighters.

[@builder396]

@@sim.frischh9781 In fact its perfectly symmetrical.

[@davidmcintyre8145]

It is almost odd enough looking to consider whether it might have escaped from a Blackburn factory

[@davydatwood3158]

When I saw the thumbnail, I had a strong nostalgia bump and thought "I wonder why that plane makes me feel so happy?" The Blackhawk appearance is the answer! My uncle collected those comics back in the day, and as a kid in the 80s I read a lot of them whilst visiting my grandmother. Fascinating to learn it was based on a real plane and not pure fiction. :)

[@AFNacapella]

that plane looks like what happens when you full throttle into a overtightened arresting cable too often

[@Shinzon23]

Looks like the fuselage is clinging onto its wings for dear life

[@Sherwoody]

Engines so powerful they pulled away from the rest of the plane.

[@D0P1C3]

F7F Tigercat is one of the best looking twin engine prop plane

[@kumasenlac5504]

Agreed - if it had inline engines it would be very Mossie-like.

[@faatihh1130]

​@@kumasenlac5504 thin mossie

[@kumasenlac5504]

@@faatihh1130 The UK had the DH 103 Hornet as its twin prop long-haul fighter. Just too late for WW2, it served with distinction in the early bush wars as the Empire unravelled. BTW Where was the Mosquito chubby ? (o:

[@faatihh1130]

@@kumasenlac5504 the side by side seat configuration just made it looks a tad wide

[@kumasenlac5504]

@@faatihh1130 When you have a navigator who doubles as a bomb aimer there has to be a bit of wiggle room... It wasn't a 'plane for chubbies.

[@garryferrington811]

Quite an interesting design. I was surprised to see that you knew it had featured in "Blackhawk" comic books.

[@weldonwin]

Was going to say it looked like something straight out of Crimson Skies

[@michaeltelson9798]

The Black Hawk comic book series lasted for over 50 years. This aircraft was the most used in the series. Blue Rider decals did 2 sets of aircraft decals for the series in both 1/72 and 1/48 scales. This comic book series shouldn’t be compared to the later superhero series of the same. The name Black Hawk was based upon the hero was a Polish pilot who initially stole a PZL P.50 prototype fighter nicknamed the “Jastrzab” (Hawk), painted it black and used it against the invading Germans before it was lost and he escaped to the west. Thus called by the enemy “Blackhawk” and kept that name.

[@leondillon8723]

"The Golden Age of Comics".

[@TheJudge2017]

Navy: Why is it over weight Grumman: Because you made it be overweight Navy: Ok but why is it over weight

[@paulholmes672]

Rex, Thank you, sir, for taking a little time for the other side of the Atlantic. Like the British and the French, we have had 'strange' stuff, too! As an amateur aviation historian myself, I've always championed the less 'bandwagon'ny designer types like Republic, Grumman, etc. Having worked the F-105 and the F-111 for a 20 year career, I'm used to being part of the "we don't talk about them' group. Anyways, have always had a soft spot for the Long Island 'Mafia', and very versed in the Grumman Navy fighter lines from the FF-1 through F-14D. The F5F was, unfortunately a 'stepchild' in that line. It's ironic how the U.S. Navy could be so silly with Grumman when at the end of the day, before Northrop sucked them up, they pretty much have had a Grumman aircraft on every carrier from the dawn of the fleet carrier force, 1932, until now with the E-2, which I still consider a Grumman legacy aircraft. What's also ironic is the fact that the F5F-1 was 'logically' marginalized by the Navy's with their darling F4U Corsair design when that aircraft ended up as a much better Marine, land-based aircraft due to its horrible forward vision in landing on carriers, something both the F5F and the F7F were exceptional with. The only reason the F7F, (and the Bearcat) didn't go on to greatness, was the dawn of the F9F. Thank you again Sir!!!!

[@XSpamDragonX]

Rex hates XP-50 in WT? BASED

[@mrcat5508]

I hate it too. I play 109 f 4 and it’s better in every way

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

​@@mrcat5508Of course it's the whinewaffe.Sorry bro,you want Climbthunder,you get Climbthundered.

[@jamesharding3459]

@@naamadossantossilva4736 Nah. It’s just broken as all hell and annoying as hell to come up against. Move it to 4.3 or 4.7 and it’ll actually be more or less balanced.

[@reinbeers5322]

​@@naamadossantossilva4736 Found the XP50 player

[@reinbeers5322]

​@@jamesharding3459 Just remove the airspawn.

[@TastyBusiness]

I was just watching a recent Drachinifel video and he mentioned you. And how I'm watching this, and you mention him. Y'all are overdue for another set of crossover videos, they're always fun.

[@nathanworthington4451]

KZbinrs can combine subs with other channels. The subscriber numbers are always inflated.

[@purplefood1]

@@nathanworthington4451 I'm pretty sure that's false though inflated subscriber counts are possible though generally due to bots rather than 'combining scubscrptions'. Secondly who the fuck asked?

[@nathanworthington4451]

@@purplefood1 Though you are entitled to your own opinion, this is a public forum though. Though you may have a potty mouth, try to be cognizant that children may view these comments. Maybe work through those anger issues on your own time though.

[@purplefood1]

@@nathanworthington4451 I'm sorry you can't handle a single instance of bad language. You still failed to answer the question or even attempt to rebut my point and actually dodged it in a manner far closer to that of an attempted troll.

[@nathanworthington4451]

@@purplefood1 Sorry. What was your question? And what does rebut mean?

[@rollertoaster812]

Kind of looks like a Bristol Beaufighter assembled from a kit without instructions. Also those super powerful Wright Cyclones are pulling the wing out the front of the aircraft!

[@mandoprince1]

Looks a lot more like Bristol's Type 153A, a slightly earlier design which never made it off the drawing board.

[@alexandergustafsson4245]

The thing I like about the channel is the chance to learn about planes I didn't know about like at all. So I just want to continue doing just that! :)

[@legit.peasant]

A friend of mine once said this thing looks like it's trying to eat a banana horizontally instead of vertically. I think that's a very sound description of this things appearance. And now I know a lot more about it, thank you Rex!

[@Kreln1221]

*The Skyrocket's boxy twin tail is highly reminiscent of Grumman's later Hawkeye and Greyhound aircraft that are still being used today. You can definitely see the family resemblance. I wonder if the **_Skyhawks_** comics mentioned at the **18:28** mark had anything directly or indirectly to do with the naming of the Hawkeye?...* 🤔

[@Titus-as-the-Roman]

The Good 'Ole Grumman Iron Works P.s.- while the space saving reason is sound and most carrier craft then carried only single engine types, but the Navy has always been open to dual engine aircraft due to it's redundancy over open water.

[@themodernancient6073]

I have always been intrigued by that design. Nice to have a breakdown of its developmental teething years. Thank you!

[@tsegulin]

During the Vietnam war, we would occasionally have US and Australian aircraft carriers drop int to Garden Island Naval Dockyard in Sydney and I met the Grumman Tracker there as a teen. I recall thinking how clever Grumman were to have shrunk a twin engine aircraft down to such a size. Great video, thanks Rex!

[@andrewhendrix2297]

It is impressive how far back the fuselage sits on the wing. The more I see or play with it, the more to me it looks like a German ME-162 holding into it's wings by it's teeth.

[@adamclaybuagh4316]

This is what Blackhawk flew in the comics. I had no idea it was based on a real plane.

[@TheMCD1989]

Can't wait for the Tigercat episode. Ever since I was a kid playing Aces over the Pacific the late war Navy fighters have always been some of my favorites, the Bearcat and Tigercat being my top picks.

[@anlydaly5726]

This is one of my favorite military aircraft. Thank you for this amazing history video 👏 😊

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Not to be confused with the Vought XF5U "Flying Flapjack".

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

That's why they have different designations for manufacturer. F for Grumman and U for Chance-Vought.

[@eccentric_traveler]

This looks like something out of crimson skies.

[@harbl99]

Grumman: "Hey, can I copy your homework." Bristol: "Okay, just change it a little."

[@n5ifi]

Sky Rockets in Flight, Afternoon Delight

[@NV..V]

Rubbing sticks and stones together....

[@n5ifi]

@@NV..V That's it

[@stevetournay6103]

Starland Vocal Band...one-hit wonder! Nice harmonies, and pre-autotune, too.

[@tarsis6123]

I love these videos about planes and prototypes with the deep dives into why they were designed such a way and why they failed.

[@MediumRareOpinions]

Im liking the mutual shoutouts between you and Drach

[@am3lia420]

Your vids paired with great 3d models is such a good combo

[@solusanimefan]

I love that Drachinifel referenced you in a video i just watched so I came to watch some of your stuff and you reference him, it's great.

[@arthurjennings5202]

Thanks for your in-depth look at this aircraft. I have seen other reviews, but none explained the aircraft's failings as well as yours. Overheating and gear failure for a carrier based aircraft? No wonder the Navy looked elsewhere.

[@giuseppenaylor]

Back to basics. Great job! Love the historical references!

[@armedbrit493]

I see a Rex video, I click the video. I don't make the rules.

[@nickthompson9697]

Same.

[@simtalkayak]

YOU LIKE THE VIDEO!!

[@crimsoncosmonaut9734]

I have a actually photo of this aircraft. my moms bowling friends dad was an air force photographer from 34’ - 46’ and she gave me most of his photos after his passing

[@robert-trading-as-Bob69]

At 18:21, the similarity to the future A-10 Warthog comes to mind.

[@sentinelDJ707]

That plane might as well be the A-10,s long lost cousin… (they look somewhat similar just different engine types and arrangement of them) or maybe a smaller scale ground attack aircraft that could operate in spots where the A-10 is not able to reach.🤔

[@merrickmoriel8878]

Home dog in the picture 17:53 is absolutely ghouling in the cockpit💀

[@Panzerkampf1995]

Amazing video, lovely delivery and a great history on a wonderful prototype

[@rabtter]

Kind of looks like a shark with a yellow surfboard in its mouth.

[@misterflibble6601]

Another excellent deep dive into experimental and prototype aircraft. I'm a huge fan of odd prototypes and experimental designs of any transportation machines

[@ianolson19]

I have already watched this on Patreon. I will watch it again.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Bragging flex. 💪 Go you! 🤣

[@ALCO-C855-fan]

@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt???

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@ALCO-C855-fan "Lexie the autistic Diesel" is the best YT name ever! 🤣

[@ALCO-C855-fan]

@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt Thx.^^ Hope, ya sub.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

FWIW, I have heard just a bit about Kelly Johnson's _reluctance_ to deal with the US Navy from other sources.

[@gort8203]

A useful learning exercise for the superior F7F.

[@chekhov1860]

I love the fact you don’t use music bed. Very refreshing!

[@Legitpenguins99]

PLEEEASE keep up the longer videos! I live for these

[@larsrons7937]

Impressive airplane. Thank you for bringing this story.

[@tkskagen]

Another Great historical video by Rex. Thank you!

[@prisma9971]

I love this goober of a plane so much.

[@thelastholdout]

The XF5F is one of my favorite plane designs of all time. It's just so funky and unique. Sadly, models of the plane are very hard to come by these days, and the ones that were manufactured weren't exactly impressive.

[@coelhovinicius140]

Now thats pod racing!

[@ponyote]

What a fascinating aircraft. Thank you! AON: has anyone ever mentioned that you have a very similar accent and cadence to Mike Brady over at Oceanliner Designs?

[@MediumRareOpinions]

There is quite a similarity

[@MrLBPug]

Has anyone ever seen them in the same room together? 🤔

[@speedydb55]

The story of the Tigercat is one I'm looking forward to. Been a fan of it since seeing it at air shows as a little kid.

[@imperialpresence1173]

it amazes me of how few model kits of this plane is available

[@YourLocalZombie]

Howard Chaykin did an excellent run of a rebooted Blackhawk. Unfortunately there are only a few dogfights as Chaykin's forte is pulp adventure, not aerial combat.

[@pauldonnelly7949]

Another great vid on an interesting if obscure aircraft. One point, towards the endyou say the Tigercat out performed all other naval aircraft of the day, but it's contemporary, the Sea Hornet was faster and an all round better performer. Shame it didn't have the time to be developed more. There's very little out there about the Hornet, perhaps a subject of a future vid? Keep up the good work..

[@kumasenlac5504]

The DH Hornet had propellers that moved as a CW/CCW pair - could have saved a lot of Mosquito crew if it had been adopted earlier...

[@kittyhawk9707]

all AMERICAN Naval fighters of the day!!!!

[@iatsechannel5255]

Great Job Rex!

[@timgosling6189]

Good subject. But what struck me was the aerodynamic efficiency of the thing. In the opening shots it is generating so much lift even at rest that it can't keep its wheels on the ground!

[@benjaminkarp2036]

I don’t know why you get so few likes, I always love your content and the dedication to the history and production thereof

[@stevetournay6103]

That mockup was interesting. First fuselage design definitely presages the Hellcat...

[@stephengardiner9867]

This was SO unlike Grumman's previous aircraft in so many ways that one might well have not believed that it came from the same "stable"! It's derivative, the XP-50 was actually a strong contender as a long range twin engine fighter for the U.S. Army Air Force. It was a VERY forward looking design (albeit with some very 1930's ideas about armament). Still had a touch of the "pudginess" of its relatives. Imagine a designer realizing that it might be a good idea for a fighter pilot to have good rearward visibility in order to be able to spot the adversary that was earnestly planning to ruin his day! THAT didn't seem to catch on in the Navy until the Bearcat came along! It did make a great little 1/48 scale kit though!

[@GuardianOne24]

19:10 “…Recent reappearance in various video games and flight simulators, sometimes displaying questionably excessive performance figures…” * cough * *Warthunder* * cough *

[@celesteorsa3918]

This plane's performance in Warthunder is worse than in Wikipedia: ____________________________________________________ | | Wikipedia | Warthunder | | Rate of Climb | 20 m/s | 9.7 m/s | | Dive Speed | 800 kmh IAS | 722 kmh IAS | | Max speed | 615 kmh TAS | 574 kmh TAS | | Guns | 4 x 12.7 mm | 2 x 12.7 mm | |_________________|_________________|_________________|

[@renegadeflyer2]

As far as I am concerned. It's the coolest twin engine plane I have ever seen. It just looks fast having the engines sitting way up front. With the rest hanging on for dear life.

[@Peter_Morris]

Every time I look at the Skyrocket, I want to move the fuselage down in the wing, and the engines up. Also I want to stretch the fuselage. That blunt nose had to be the source of some of the high drag.

[@sayg1621]

Great video. Got yourself a new subscriber

[@sergiol.aponte13]

As always, excellent content.

[@DrHundTF2]

I know many don’t like the looks of this plane, but personally, I’m a big fan, with the lot looking like a rather odd Pod Racer. Maybe a nose, like the XP-50 that goes beyond the wing, but stops before the propellers could also be interesting

[@bigal1863]

Love this plane! I have a plastic scale model of it.

[@Deviation4360]

This aircraft, the McDonnell "Moonbat", and the XF5U "Flapjack" are to me the most captivating US what-if's of the WWII era. All of them just too ahead of their time, with the Skyrocket redeemed in the form of the Tigercat. The Moonbat was new engine/airframe and suffered accordingly. With Allison engines it most likely would've been able to prove its performance merits without catching fire repeatedly. The XF5U most likely would have been snapped up by the Royal Navy, winning out to the Sea Fury and later Wyverns and receiving some brittish turbo-prop conversion A-la Merlin Mustang style.

[@andrewhotston983]

Another plane I'd never heard of. Very interesting.

[@petesheppard1709]

I was also surprised to see that the F7F was originally an Army concept!

[@wetworth]

It looks like something that would be flown by one of Don Karnage's lackeys in TaleSpin. I love it.

[@interpl6089]

Ah yes, the XP-50 with ''extra chromosomes'' as dubbed by a certain Dutch Warthunder pilot.

[@leondillon8723]

The 75mm M4 cannon was nose mounted in the B25G Mitchell bomber. Another video made in England. Every time that he mentions the weight, a L (money symbol) appeared.

[@davidjernigan8161]

A prelude to the F7F

[@LissomeMatrix]

What is name of video made by Drachinifel that is mentioned on 03:40?

[@monkekrieg9405]

I was just watching an episode of the animated Justice league where they had one of these planes show up was wondering what it was

[@SorenNido]

Have you done a video on the XP-67 Moonbat yet? It's one of my favorite aircraft that never served and it's story is tragic!

[@jasonz7788]

Awesome thanks rex

[@anon_y_mousse]

I thought you were going to say A-10, since it resembles one of those with the engines on backwards. Cool plane either way.

[@HrLBolle]

I have seen this plane in the animated series Justice League during the altered past double episode introducing the Black Hawk squadron and Vandal Savage

[@PeterNebelung]

Vision over the nose would have been great but off axis in the lower front would be abysmal. Even so, I always liked this little Grumman try.

[@donaldhill3823]

Saying a specific aircraft design was something never seen before in the 1930s early 1940s does not narrow the field by much. When aircraft were going obsolete in a matter of months, everything was new all the time.

[@pennycarvalho1223]

Would it be called “underwing” like a underbite? “Receded fuselage nose”? “No show nose” (like no show socks)? “Shortstack fuselage”?

[@joel_974.]

love how u took the thumb nal staight out of wt

[@stephenremington8448]

When I saw the non-side view of the tailplane I instantly thought of the Miles Student. I wish someone would restore the Miles Student, or build a replica.

[@thegermanfool8953]

I swear the 40s through 70s had to be the only time periods were aircrafts looked completely alien. And I couldn't be happier.

[@Ocrilat]

A couple of things: -Well, you can hardly blame the USN for strictly adhering to the weight limits after the Buffalo fiasco. -Weak landing gear is a recipe for disaster in a carrier fighter. -Temperamental, overheating engines are a huge problem for any aircraft, let alone a carrier fighter...in the Pacific. -Just looking at the XF5F it's pretty clear that it would be much more expensive and time consuming to build compared to the Hellcat. Production matters. -Two engines means double the maintenance over a single-engine plane. That's a big problem on a carrier, with limited facilities and mechanics. -Mixed armaments also slows down the rearming process. -Bigger planes are going to slow down the tempo of arming and refueling in the hanger, and slow down getting the planes spotted on the carrier deck by taking up more room on the elevators. -Bigger planes usually also mean fewer planes embarked. The first twin-engine carrier plane tested for the USN (Douglas XT2D-1 torpedo-bomber) was not accepted mostly because it took up so much room in the hanger. -By the time the prototype was ready, its competitors already outpaced it in every department except climb rate (especially in speed). Climb rate was less important, especially in the advent of radar. -The XF5Fs competitors, the Hellcat and later Corsair, were just better aircraft.

[@kleinerprinz99]

Good points. Please explain / elaborate how climb rate is less important? Its super important to be above your enemy is it not?

[@Jfk2Mr]

​@@kleinerprinz99detection radius - when using the radar, detection radius (especially for high flying airplanes) was much higher than Mk 1 eyeballs with binoculars, giving more time to intercept than previously estimated 5 minutes window

[@RonJohn63]

The Skyrocket looks like the Westland Whirlwind. 12:08 Grumman should have pushed for a contract mod. Or written a better initial contract. 13:05 Why were they so insistent on the weight limit?

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

You have to be able to fit on a ship elevator.

[@davidlund5003]

Thanks Rex

[@oldesertguy9616]

Now I'm waiting for the Tigercat episode.

[@DrivingGod21]

The bane of every War Thunder players existence.

[@michaelray3865]

This is the plane flown by the international squadron in one of the justice league episodes, the one where the league is thrown into the past during an alternate ww2 won by Vandal Savage on behalf of Germany.

[@DavidVT23]

God I wish things like this truly made it. Dream Big. Dream Bold. Then, Build It.

[@billballbuster7186]

I am a bit warry of the performance figures of US aircraft as they seem to have been tested in lightweight condition without service equipment and armament. Contracts were cancelled for the RAF Bell P39 which was tested at 390mph, but in service condition was around 40 mph slower, and also the P-38 Lightning was a dud in the condition Lockheed wanted to supply it.

[@fooman2108]

If you look at it, you can see the Grumman family resemblance, designed by Leroy Grumman? There is an old saying about Grumman aircraft; no Grumman aircraft has EVER come in UNDERWEIGHT. A nickname for Grumman has been (and continues to be) 'the Bethpage (Long Island) boiler works'. P.S. my dad had 35 years driving Grumman aircraft off of USN carriers.

[@drstevenrey]

Such a cool thing though. Even if they had no concept of the perils you can get into operating two engines. Don't get me wrong, I fly twins a lot. But privately, I prefer one mechanical tyrant ahead of me, not two. Today there are procedures and constant speed and full feathering propellers, but on one, you are still in big trouble.

[@totenvt]

i often wondered why the F4 jumped to F6

[@kcspeed9980]

Just a general question. Was there any WW2 plane used by both the navy and the army Air Force/air service idk the proper name.

[@stevetournay6103]

Most transports and trainers were operated by both Navy and Army under different designations: Stearman PT-13/N2S, North American AT-6/SNJ, Beech C-45/JRB, Douglas C-47/R4D and C-54/R5D. Crossover of combat types was much less frequent, but there was some: North American B-25/PBJ; Consolidated PBY/OA-10 and B-24/PB4Y; Lockheed PV/B-34; Boeing B-17/PB-1; Curtiss SB2C/A-25; Douglas SBD/A-24 and A-26/JD-1...