Grundfos UP-16 hot water recirculation pump

[@barkal100]

Thank you for a straightforward no BS explanation. I'm so tired of videos that put entertainment over information.

[@karenfry5506]

I wished that I viewed this when I first got it. The plumber said to keep it on "auto". Like you mentioned most people do not live such a regimented life. Auto did not work for me. I thought "auto" was the only options. I found you and now I am going to try it on "temperature" mode. Hopefully, I will be happy with it now. You explained it very well. Thank you

[@julieatkinson5422]

Great explanation! We moved into a house and had no idea what this was on our hot water heater and could not find a manual online. This video answered all our questions. Thank you for the easy explanations!

[@nelsod76]

Thanks for the video. Good information and nothing flashy. I appreciate your time and effort to do it.

[@karychristopherson8643]

Great explanation! We just installed a new water heater and installed the 3 mode version of your pump. The manual gives a pretty basic explanation but I really appreciate your detailed explanation and your recommendations.

[@vecentarichardp.dansby8276]

I appreciate your instructions regarding The Grundfos circulating pump, again "Thank you!"

[@fmorriso]

is the 14-day "learn mode" a single, one-and-done process that happens the first time the unit is turned on or is it a sliding window that is constantly learning? In a new build, the builder will test the unit to be sure it works. If that builder uses the only single, one-and-done 14-day learning period, then nothing the owner does after he moves in will change when the unit turns on or off. If the 14-day learning period is an ongoing, sliding window, then the homeowner's habits, not the builder's testing, will govern when the unit turns on/off. Please clarify because none of the documentation on the Grundfos website answers my question.

[@SergioSalvi]

I have the same question. Did you find an answer to this? Thank you.

[@margaretdines1044]

Great video - thanks Mark. My question is:- how do we disable the Grundfos system during an electrical power failure? We recently had an electrical power outage (for 3 very long days) and even though we have a gas hot water service, we could not get any hot water because the Grundfos system was unable to work (because there was no electricity). By the way, we have had our Grundfos system for 11 years & we love it. It is very effective, very reliable, we cannot hear the pump at all.

[@seanhartnett9753]

if your water heater is on you still get hot water unless you have a issue with a check.

[@mikeceli]

I watched the entire video and can not order a Grundfos pump, because the model numbers were not mentioned!

[@oleouzochristensen5058]

Mark Thank you for a great video. Our house was built in 87 and it takes long time to get hot water in the shower. We also have a water softener. I heard that to install a recirculating pump you have to do something to the softener. Can you let me know what that is? Thanks in advance

[@l2rmfgcc]

What model # is the 3rd (last) pump that you showed?

[@ilyafilru]

Very informative. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

[@MrSledjunky17]

Thank you for sharing this information. I have a Laing pump on my system that has gone bad and was told that the Grundfos pump might fit directly into the Laing body. Do you know if that is the case or will I have to cut out my Laing and reinstall the new system??

[@rawyin]

I need to pick the right one for a tankless.

[@wally6193]

would have been nice for him to tell us complete model numbers of each unit he mentioned.

[@mikeceli]

Wally is correct. I watched the entire video and can not order a Grundfos pump, because the model numbers were not mentioned!

[@macktheknife1432]

I moved into a house that is 16 years old. It has a UP10-16BN5/LC. Other than how quick the water gets hot at the faucet, how do I know this unit is still working/running. Thanks.

[@bigdog8008]

My hot water recirculation system's electricity costs zero to run per year. If you have a return line from far end - look into using a gravity system. Zero maintenance and works great!

[@jwhite4]

My understanding of the gravity system is that the "return" line is always feeding cooler water back into the hot water heater. Instead of some cost for the active pump, the passive gravity system incurs additional hot water heating costs. It's tough to think that's lower than a ~9w pump.

[@JillofAllTrades2]

How much more expensive will your utility bill be? Whether your water is heated by gas or electricity, a recirculating pump will cause a drop in the temperature of the water in the water heater tank causing the tank to turn on to heat the entire tank.

[@msantos128]

Hi, thanks for the video and the explanation. LEt me ask. Why should i use an expansion thank on the return line if it goes into the cold water side, and why is better to mount the return line into the drain valve of the tank? that`s what i understood. is that correct? thanks

[@MadMan559est69]

A plumber just replaced my grundfos pump,. We had the one that had a plastic cap that covered the timer switches, we didn't use the timer at all. They put the second pump you show in this video and the hot water take like 5 to 10 minutes to start up. I tried it at 100% as well. Any ideas we have that furnace type tankless water heater

[@MrBill99]

Great. The only thing I didn't get was sizing the pump correctly for the square footage of the house. My house is 4000 sq. ft.. Do I need a different model. Thanks,

[@tripjet999]

The recirculating pumps are great - until you receive your first gas bill to run the water heater more often.

[@RSTI191]

Huh, I never thought of that one. How much of difference though?

[@TheTTVert]

I've had issues w/ my comfort 10-16 from day 1 in temp control mode (Not auto adapt). I have the Tsupply sensor on the DHW outlet about 10" from the tank and the return Treturn is integral to the pump obviously. Tsupply is 95F (Should be at least as it's based on my IR temp gun) and Treturn is near ambient at 74F. So either the Tsupply or Treturn sensors are bad I feel The pump is ALWAYS in standby except for initial power up. Ever seen this? I am having a hard time getting ahold of anyone at grungdfos.

[@davepoustie1912]

I have a Grundfos with the three settings ,hooked up to a Honeywell two wire thermostat (This unit is for heated floors)if i disconnect the thermostat the unit works , how do i control temperature

[@user-pl4eu5jc5w]

If you don’t want hot water circulating thru uninsulated water pipes can you just unplug an always on recirculating pump?

[@glennrudolph6058]

Hi Mark, great concise explanation... just what I was looking for... I need to run the return line back and want to know if I should go with 1/2 or 3/4 pex. any preference? basically seems to come down to high volume with 3/4...

[@markkrumnow8203]

Most of the time for people with a 3,000 square foot house or smaller they use a 1/2" pass that it would not hurt to use a 3/4" return line. Hopefully that helps.

[@bluearcherx]

@@markkrumnow8203 so can the return to the pump be smaller, if I have a 3/4" PEX loop to all the fixtures can I transition to 1/2" back to the pump? I can't see what not, I don't care if the circulation pump has low flow since it just runs in the background.

[@markkrumnow8203]

@@bluearcherx Yes, most return lines are 1/2", depending on the size of the house. As long as water is being returned, then the GPM and head pressure is adequate.

[@bradausman]

Great clear explanation. thanks for the video

[@charjones8781]

I was wondering where to order the union with the larger body to accommodate the check valve. S Is the 98420224 the larger union for check valve? Several of the GRUNDFOS have been discontinued. I could only find the 98420223.

[@DrivingIntelligence]

I have a multistory house and my furthest sink is about 15’ above the water heater. Can you recommend a pump that can handle that head?

[@p51mustang31]

What is the reason you don't need an expansion tank when the hot water return line enters the water heater at the bottom (where drain valve is) as opposed to needing to have one when the return line enters at the cold inlet on top of the tank?

[@msantos128]

hi have you find out what the explanation was? thank you

[@jimzimmerman5288]

Is that last one you demonstrated okay to use on a tankless? Rinnai RUC 80

[@etyrnal]

If the water is on a private well is this going to ruin the pump?

[@Bryan-ud5ri]

Your video is awesomely informative. I really like it. But, I have one question... Will these units work with Tankless water heaters? I have the Rinnai RU199iN (not the RUR series) and I want to install a dedicated return recirculation system. Thanks for the great video. Cheers!

[@markkrumnow8203]

The only way to use a hot water recir line with a tankless is to use a small tank in a return line and use the UP10-16 through that tank and not the tankless. Most of the time people will use one of those instant hot water heaters that people put under their kitchen sinks. This way if the UP10-16 needs to run because the line is getting to cold the little instant hot water tank will heat up and provide hot water without turning on the Rinnai.

[@karenfry5506]

@@markkrumnow8203 My plumber installed the "cadillac" model for me. I do have a Rinnai R94LS. Are you saying that without an additional smaller 1 gallon tank as part of the system, The Grundfos should not be part of my system? I went through two 1-gallon tanks which burnt out because of the extremely hard water that we have in our city.

[@vanbarber8696]

where do the rubber washers go on the union sweet

[@rarityd]

for those with tankless water heater would needed one of these to avoid the "cold water sandwich" issues

[@Seaworthy1]

I have the unit with the temperature sensor. Can I install the pump under the farthest sink?

[@nicholasstrietzel2572]

Can you provide model numbers for these three units you are describing?

[@dantully6087]

Same question

[@samtsapatolis5711]

Will this work well for a 24 unit apartment complex?

[@chesleebryan5099]

Hello. I have the UP 10-16 Auto pump which replaced the one that always stays on due to make a loud buzzing noise after 2 years. I had a plumber replace it but after 48hrs the new one is making the same noise when it runs on the auto feature. Do you have any recommendations or suggestion of what the issue can be?

[@adcampo7601]

Do you have a non-timer pump recommendation for a tankless system?

[@jasminmoideen8824]

If i want to use this circulation pump with glasstub type solar water heater 100 litter capacity, lower level than main tank, what type of back flow preventer to be installed to protect glass tube washer leaksge, except NRV?

[@etyrnal]

What problems are created if the water heater is kept at a tightest temperature?

[@garrymcdowell8099]

Hello. Will these pumps work on a water heater that has the heat traps on them?? Thanks

[@rscranman2002]

would this work with a Navien NPE 240S tankless hot water heater?

[@daveebert1925]

where can I find the 1 1/4 matting union in 3/4 npt? I do not find it on your web site...

[@tomaliza5884]

Hi may I ask what is the model number of the last one that you recommending the most? Thank you

[@johnb7644]

Can the always on pump be used as a de stratification pump

[@etyrnal]

How long does it take for the coldest water to show up?

[@MrTeff999]

Question: I've got two separate circuits, one for the left side of the house, the other for the right side of the house, each with their own return line. If I installed a single pump at the drain on the bottom of the hot water tank, might I have problem with it pulling more from one side compared to the other, so that the users on one side of the house will have hot water, but the users on the other side won't? Also, I imagine that each circuit would need its own check valve so that one side doesn't pull from the other.

[@nikpinet2745]

I am a plumber and I just did a renovation in a house similar to yours. I had to run 2 separate return lines with 2 separate recirc pumps. I used the 3rd one he showed

[@KollarFamily-z3j]

can u ran this unit on 230V

[@clutch747]

thank u

[@rottiejakeluke]

Can you please send me item/part numbers and their descriptions so nI know what I need to purchase? Thanks

[@westfield90]

Doesn’t Running it too often cause your gas bill to skyrocket since you are now putting a demand on the water tank to constantly keep the water hot? I just moved into a house that has this pump and without the pump the water is lukewarm to cold so I use the pump but scared of running it too often and getting a massive gas bill

[@morejelloplease]

this topic is a fine line, and varies depending on the install. in my situation there's no free lunch. i was trying to run the pump as less as possible but found out that this actually hurt the system because once it primed the lines it would shut off, the lines then cool and the sitting water was fed back into the water heater and then the heater cycled more. short story long, i had to run the pump longer and prime the lines more to retain more heat so that when the heater saw the water come back in, it wasn't cold enough to turn on the heater. i'd rather have a 7watt pump run for an extra 10 minutes than a 500w heat pump or 5kW element. if you really want to split hairs, then use a whole house energy monitor to break down your exact power consumption, but at the end of the day it's piece of mind to turn on a hot water faucet and get hot water in seconds. right now i'm fighting this stupid grundfos auto adapt pump with sensors that has a mind of it's own. when this pump dies i'll buy a cheap 100% pump and control it with a cheap digital timer or wifi switch with custom on/off times. hope this helps, i've been fighting this for 2 years now, brand new house, new pump, new everything. looks like i'll have to accept "good enough" for an answer in my situation because no one has found a solution yet.

[@westfield90]

@@morejelloplease thank you for explaining this

[@markkrumnow8203]

The sole purpose of a hot water recir line is so that when you turn on your fixture you have hot water and you are not dumping water that was once heated and is now room temperature down the drain. When the pump senses (return temperature sensor located in the pump) that the water is colder than the supply by approximately 10 degrees the pump light goes solid and moves the room temperature water in your hot water pipes back into your hot water tank to reheat. Your tank is typically a 40 gallon tank with a recovery time off approximately 20 minutes. That would be a complete drain down of your tank. By returning approximately 1 to 2 gallons your hot water tank will only turn on maybe a minute or two.

[@morejelloplease]

@@markkrumnow8203 show me where it says there's a 10 degree split from sensor to sensor. i have 120 coming out of the outlet and 88 goign back in. this stupid pump just sits here. the other day it turns on for 30 secs and off for 30 seconds. andis it smart enough to know that when it turns itself on that the water moving thru the pipe is not a tapping incident? whenever i turn on a faucet for 5, seconds or a minute, the pump does nothing, these sensors dont work properly and no one at grundfos can explain it properly, they are ignoring me now. it takes 2 mins 30 secs for the water to make a complete trip out the supply and back thru the return and into the water heater. idle water will cool a degree per minute, so if the pump is off for 10 mins and stays off, then when i turn on a faucet i get 109-111 degree water for the next 2m 30 secs. when the pump sits there and flashes at me then i get luke warm water for 2m 30 seconds, does that make sense?

[@markkrumnow8203]

@@morejelloplease Please call so we can discuss your system. Please check website for my phone number

[@tenniszachz]

Can you put one of the pumps with the temperature mode on a timer? When it turns back on will it keep its setting?

[@morejelloplease]

it will go back to the setting that you last had it on, so if you have it on 100% and the power goes out, then it will come back on at 100%. this is how i control the pump with a cheap digital timer because the sensors dont do CRAP.

[@tenniszachz]

@@morejelloplease thanks for the reply! I've heard other things about the sensors not working well. Might just get the cheaper, always on version and hook it up to a smart switch

[@markkrumnow8203]

The UP10-16 pump in temperature mode relies on the internal sensor in the pump to control when it turns on or off. Most of the time when it is not responding correctly a check valve was not put on the return line. You can use the temperature mode and a timer if that works for you.

[@acnconstruction]

can the pump run 24/7?

[@bpdp379]

Yup

[@KnewsAlberta]

Where we can buy that product in Canada?

[@daveebert1925]

what is the modal number of the last pump you showed; where can i purchase it?

[@markkrumnow8203]

The pump model is a UP10-16 Temperature only with union fittings. As a reminder when you purchase this pump, you also have to purchase the mating fittings.

[@daveebert1925]

@@markkrumnow8203 Mark I hate to sound dumb, but I don't see the fitting I need on ur wed. I bought the UP10-16 Temperature only with union fittings. I (think) I need half union female with 3/4 NPT male; two pcs. Can you send me a link where I can purchase the fittings I need??

[@jerryz255]

Has anyone gotten an answer to these questions?

[@timothyjaco7357]

Incomplete or purposely omitting description of energy costs! I agree that the cost of running the pump is almost nothing, but it is the cost of unnecessarily re-heating the cooler water returning to the tank that is the game changer. You should use a timer or manual button switch or the auto learn mode.

[@562handsomemike]

Insulate the line.

[@bpdp379]

In no way is the purpose of this to save $ on heating water. It is for A) comfort and B) saves on water waste. If you want to save $ on heating water, do not use a circulator.

[@Andy-df5fj]

Keeping your pipes hot wastes heat even if it saves water.

[@bigdog8008]

Handy little product out there called "pipe insulation". Look into that someday.

[@Andy-df5fj]

@@bigdog8008 No reasonable amount of insulation will keep the hot water in the pipes from shedding significant amounts of heat over time. The reason your hot water tank cycles on even when no hot water is used is because heat is lost through the insulated walls of the tank. Keeping the water in the pipes hot along with the water in the tank will add to that loss even if they are insulated. Also, most people aren't going to tear down walls to insulate their pipes.

[@bigdog8008]

@@Andy-df5fj OK -- this works quite well for me but you do your own thing and run your hot water for 20 minutes before getting in the shower.

[@FINfinFINfinFINfin]

What is the model of the last pump? Thanks