Guide for Fluid Mechanics + Flow rate bug fixes (Mk 2 pipe bug) | Tips and Tricks | Satisfactory 1.0

[@jackblade281]

I realized when editing I forgot one important tip, and the timecode for part 2 TIP: ALWAYS LET PIPES AND MACHINES SATURATE BEFORE TURNING ON THE MACHINES! Timecode: 23:48 - Part 2 Do you have other tips that can help make pipes work better for people?

[@pcb5135]

I think you forgot something else, like TURNING OFF YOUR GOD DANG DISCORD 🤣also thanks for the vide coz those GOD DANG PIPE IS BULLSHIT

[@jackblade281]

@@pcb5135 that has been solved since, it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place, but soundsetups are just like satisfactory pipes XD

[@danielfabro22]

Lifesaver video - I had just made a humongous fuel gen factory and wasn't aware of the limitations of flowing straight 600 in each pipe. 3 hours of troubleshooting and all I needed was this info

[@jackblade281]

That makes me really happy to hear!

[@dio52]

Head lift is calculated from the center of the output pipe of the nearest object in the pipeline, not the bottom of the model. 15:20

[@transformingelmore]

I was building a 66GW turbo fuel factory in the Blue Crater and struggling to get everything running at 100%. This video was so informative, I had everything worked out within a couple of hours, 100% efficiency using your tips. Awesome work!

[@jackblade281]

That is awesome to hear!

[@stabojert]

I built basically the same power plant on the northern beach (66GW) but I will not try to ficsit. Enough for me to know its not my fault 😄

[@squeaccups4761]

I have followed your course about fluid mechanics, this has been very informative and useful. A couple of issues have been fixed after following the principles that you teach me. You definitely won a sub! Keep it up!

[@jackblade281]

Thank you for the sub, and I am super happy you found it helpful!

[@tinchooyola]

Ok, you earned my sub with the cleanest "go and have them somewhere else, BOOM!" line ever xD

[@jackblade281]

That plasma spitter had it coming, being toxic about the Mk2 pipe bugs, just after I had a long rant about it XD

[@emmonsracing3470]

Couldnt figure it out... Went back and did the few things you mentioned and works without issue. awesome vid.

[@jackblade281]

Yea, no need for 1000 things when 4-5 things does the trick

[@ulrichtiede4859]

A tip according to the KISS method; when you only have mark 1 pipes and have the space use 4 waterpumps underclocked for 8 coal generators so you dont have the need for balancing and it is also more energy efficent (54.8 MW for 4 at 75% against 60 MW for 3 at 100%)

[@Chris_Bro_aka_MR_PLAT1NEM]

Finally someone who can explain what's going on here. I have experienced the same issues with pipes in Rust. I found all those work arounds myself just playing around for hours. I don't have that kind of time nowadays. I was hoping for an answer from someone else's time while I'm away from the game. Your video is just that! Thanks! Also to address the programming issues and "it's Coffee Stain's fault" comments. I used to play with programming and if you have repeating decimals in the calculations you get instability. It's hard to solve these issues easily. It's best to work around the programming bugs as best you can and hopefully one day it'll get figured out. Just like we're figuring out work arounds and spending more time than it feels like we should on this problem, Coffee Stain programmers are doing the same with the programming. The difference is this is our leisure time and they are under time crunches and are expected to perform. Be a little more understanding.

[@jackblade281]

yea, I am allergic to misinformation, and just blaming stuff on bugs when there are workarounds and ways of making things work is not any way to enjoy the game, and potentially it makes others give up because they think there are no solutions

[@FishStyx0]

Honestly, thank you for making this video. Trying not to be salty, how the Satisfactory community and development team (kind of) handles pipe mechanics and physics is annoying. Being told that I basically have a skill issue for years just to find out that there are several bugs to pipes justifies the frustration I went through. Pre-1.0, I quit a save file just because of problems I had with Mk 2 pipes not having a perfect 600/min flow rate. Now finding out that there is a floating-point number bug with Mk2 pipes, which makes perfect sense. Honestly a shame this video doesn't have more views, as it goes into great detail about how players should implement pipes into their worlds. Other guides I've seen just talks about head lift and may briefly mention to not make long fluid manifolds for an unspecified reason. Thanks again.

[@jackblade281]

Yea, and a lot of the problems with Mk2 pipes have been fixed at this point, but you still have random stuff pop up constantly, I even had it in my last Let's Play episode too XD where headlift was not applied like it should. Had to put in another set of pumps

[@packtrouble6270]

OMG perfect freaking timing. I literally just unlocked water pipes and you uploaded the update 1 hour ago.

[@jackblade281]

perfect timing, indeed! :P I hope it helps yoU!

[@BabyJeus]

thanks for the video Jack Blade, needed a good reminder on pipes, Ill replace the pipes.

[@jackblade281]

always good with a reminder :P

[@Daoist0]

TYSM this was very informative for me as a new player I'm losing 10GW in my fuel power plant because of fluid issues so hopefully I can fix it with your tips

[@jackblade281]

I hope you get it fixed!

[@RubyOneTake]

i had 48 fuel generators being used in my first oil power plant and the issue i ran into was the fuel not making it to all the generators. the solution i found for that was to underclock the ones in the back to 50% and slowly bring them back to 100% once i did that i no longer had problems :D i have ran into the pump bug. i didn't realize it was because the pipe was going through it, i solved it by deleting the entire pipe and replacing it lol! now i know i just need to delete the two segments and replace them thank you ^^

[@jackblade281]

yea, fuel generators are horrible to get to 100% happy you solve it XD and yea hope it saves some time for you later!

[@halbouma6720]

Thanks for the video! I've wasted more time on fluids than anything else in this game so these videos always help people. I think Coffee stain all trolled us by having the fluid dynamics for dummies book in the hub's bathroom on this. lol. However, I would like to say that any pipe video that covers the problems with pumps and how water towers solves these problems should not be showing a wall of pipes with pumps at 24:00 in, lol. I get why you're showing it because every pump on those pipes can cause problems, but you should also be saying "While I'm going through and fixing all my pumps like here, you can also use the water tower principle to get rid of most of these pumps as well - which is even better". Then show the after picture with just a single pipe going up with the pumps properly added. Because using your own words, having a single pipe with pumps is much simpler than 12+ pipes to deal with (likely over 50 pumps).

[@jackblade281]

I also say this in the video; That is an exploit, a glitch, and I am not teaching people how to break the game, I am teaching how to use the game mechanics as intended. Let's Game it Out and others will likely show that off, I wont use that, if it gets fixed by the devs my video is still relevant, if I added that in it would no longer work.

[@PersistentDissenter]

I didn't realize resetting the head lift with a buffer set to a higher point was a glitch. The mechanics work exactly like a RL water tower. We have many here in Texas. The flow created by gravity negates the needs for pumps to houses... Edit: Some research indicates that the exploit has to do with breaking head lift very specifically to create a scenario where you can lift fluids even beyond the original water tower. Gravity-fed head lift is intentional.

[@jackblade281]

@@PersistentDissenter yepp, I do mention water towers and "saving" headlift by running fluids down into your system, and building fluid systems top down instead of bottom up, I could probably have been clearer though

[@Freischicht]

Thank you! We did a 80 (turbo)fuel-generator setup with one overclocked oil-node and alternative recipes. The maths were fine, but we ran in almost all of your mentioned piping-issues. I wonder why setting junctions or pumps does not split the pipe immediately at placing; should be possible to implement. Maybe the players are intended to ficsit.

[@jackblade281]

Happy it worked out! Probably a leftover of old code implementation and fixing it would cascade into a massive project XD I know they have talked about a major pipe and fluid dynamics overhaul at some point after 1.0 but when. or and actual "if" is a mystery

[@Khaos82_]

Great video and nice guide.

[@jackblade281]

makes me happy to hear you liked it!

[@salixalba6536]

nice information but could do without hearing your discord notifications in the background audio

[@jackblade281]

yea thats been fixed since

[@MisterNightfish]

With the "horizontal to vertical" thing, it doesn't really have anything to do with going up or down, it just literally goes horizontal as far as it can and then vertical as it needs to connect to something that's higher or lower. In your case you put the upper pipe support right at the edge but the lower one was far away from the edge. If you put the lower support right at the edge it'll go down the wall, too, even if you start further back up top. Also: Please turn off your discord notifications noise for recording :D

[@jackblade281]

I have not seen that, might be right XD huh, I have them on separate audio lines, it should not pick up any discord notifications XD Got to check that, thanks for catching it!

[@MM-gq1le]

On the chronic migraines, ask your doctors about lacosamide and sumatriptan. I know a friend that used those and it helped. Didn't totally go away tho

[@jackblade281]

Yea I have talked t oa great neurologist specializing in Migraines and while medicine can help remove the pain, the migraines are not actually gone. The only way to fo that is to stop the habits that give them to me in the first place, and for a longer period of time, I need like a month long vacation at a all inclusive spa hotel somewhere warm to break the cycle, and then when I get back, to not stress, push myself or work for long hours XD Essentially impossible at this rate

[@vertex2702]

Snutt has confirmed more than once that the floating point problem in MK2 pipes has been fixed. But I can also confirm that the problem is still there. In my aluminum plant, over dozens of hours of testing, I have come to one conclusion - give up on the 600 m3 flow. It is better to run more pipes - nerves will be better :)

[@jackblade281]

that, and better to sink byproduct water than recycle if you want to keep your sanity XD But yea, agreed, sadly the problems are still there, one way or another. For now, we will have to work around them.

[@5353Jumper]

I find it works a lot better if you can design things so every machine only has one type of source. So each refinery (or set of refineries in a large plant) is either fed by water extractor, or bi-product water. Do not try to supplement by-product water with a little extractor water, the numbers will mess up somehow. All gravity fed if possible. Then have a wet concrete plant above that to sluff off any buildup of bi-product water.

[@jackblade281]

@@5353Jumper Yepp, I got to that conclusion after spending waaaay too much effort trying to make my recycled water loop work for my aluminum plant in the U8 lets play

[@diablo9070]

But what can I do with an oil extractor overclocked to 600? It's the main purveyor to my power plant

[@jackblade281]

@@diablo9070 a single short MK2 pipe from the extractor, go into a junction and split it into 2 MK1 pipes, and then use MK1 for the rest of it, plan the lines accordingly. That is my first advice XD If you really want to use a Mk2 pipe, make sure the pipe is saturated, use as long uninterrupted segments as possible, the fewer pumps needed the better, then just follow the troubleshooting method I show in the video if you have any problems. Putting in a valve, buffer then valve again at the highest point of the pipeline can also help with the game loading instabilities because all machines restart and some machines internal fluid buffers are emptied.

[@douglashanks4189]

Just a build tip: pumps, junctions, and valves snap to walls... so with clever wall work you can get everythingbpositioned before pipeblaying.

[@jackblade281]

that is good!

[@joetaylor3111]

Hi @jackblade281, I really liked your flow rate videos! Thank you. Is the first one still valid? You showed how to avoid the water hammer effect in the first video, but in the current video didn't mention any solution for it (hopefully didn't miss it). Again, thank you so much.

[@jackblade281]

Yes I excluded it because it is only a real problem in an unsaturated system, this problem only persists in fuel generator lines and byproduct drain lines, so I will do a whole separate video specifically talking about fuel and oil setups. So essentially, if you have saturated your system, and it does not run to fuel generators, or have irregular inflow rates, just make sure you have completely saturated your system before turning on the machines and you will be fine

[@audriusmackevicius1433]

I think u made a mistake. U said that refinery output has no headlift, however it has 10 meter headlift. Unless they changed it for 1.0?

[@jackblade281]

I must have made a mistake then, yes 10m headlift. I think I just count it as 0 when planning pumps and stuff to avoid problems

[@FillEmWIithHoles]

Question, working on fixing flow rate issues for an oil build, everything worked for about an hour, and then some of my machines have inadequate flow. I have 4 extractors that are interconnected via manifolds after entering the factory, I assumed that if you connected 4 machines pumping 120m3 the combined oil available to all pipes would be 480m3, therefore meeting the input requirements required for any machines connected to any of the 4 pipes. Does anyone have any information on the proper set up to do this? Edited: to clarify there are still 4 separate pipes, but for example one of the lines has 4 machines requiring 60m3 of oil each. So my question is since the total available oil is 480 and the 4 pipes are interconnected at one point the pipe should still have enough oil to feed the 4 machines? Or no?

[@jackblade281]

if you have 4 machines requiring 60 each, and you are pumping in 480, you should have no problem, if you have 8 machines, using the full 480, there might be some issues because you need the 100% efficient feeding. Remember a mk1 pipe can only take 300 so if you are combining pipes at any point brinigng the needed flow rate over 300 you bottleneck the input, outside of that: Here is a list of things you can check through and make sure is set up properly - Always replace pipes if you have placed a module of some kind that splits the pipe, or place module first and then connect pipes - Short manifolds, would say max 15 machines in one manifold before you are dancing with the devil - Feed fluids down into machines, not up into them - Always saturate the entire pipe system, machines and buffers 100% before turning it on (there are edge cases where this is bad or impossible though) - Valves and fluid buffers are essential for a 100% efficient and 100% stable system - Place pumps JUST BEFORE you go vertical, not after. - Place additional pipes a little before the holographic indicator tells you the next pumps needs to be placed, it can be just on the edge of headlift and cause some 2-3% fluctuation in flow rates. These are two other videos where I talk about flow rates and stuff, some of this might help! Oil Setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaLHfYV4gqd5opY Fuel Setup kzbin.info/www/bejne/n37QhmBrfpatea8 If you still have issues, come on into the discord and we can help!

[@SieepybearPlays]

great video, just hope I don't have to redo all of the water lines going to my factory, 48 mk2 pipes will ruin me :)

[@jackblade281]

It sucks, but if its not working, you might have to redo some of them at least XD

[@SieepybearPlays]

@@jackblade281 did the pump trick you showed when I installed the mk2 water pumps, so crossing fingers.

[@jackblade281]

@@SieepybearPlays hope it works ^^

[@alexxchristopherdevinney8184]

I wish you could heat water into vapor or steam and transport it as a gas.. kinda like a late game alternative to the packager.. one can dream!

[@jackblade281]

that would be the dream :P

[@a_r_3]

wait, so is it bad practice to place pumps or junctions directly on the pipe? I need to place them first or to replace the pipe at all ends so that it is no longer considered 1 pipe but many pipes? So far I haven't paid attention to this and everything works with my coal power plant or the oil factory.

[@jackblade281]

Yea its a known bug, but if your setups work, don't touch it XD if stuff is not working, then start with that step

[@nstag8r]

They supposedly did fix the floating point problem in 1.0. Also they changed the way belts and pipes are, all segments are not calculated seperatly they are all one calculation now no matter how many junctions on a pipe.

[@jackblade281]

If all that was fixed you would not have a single segment of the pipe just randomly not connecting, they may have fixed some stuff, but obviously other problems remains, or they are new problems with similar effects on the pipes XD Either way, the way I have done things with the pipes since 1.0 has fixed any problems I have encountered

[@nstag8r]

@@jackblade281 I agree that I also am running into some of the same issues but I will sight my sources for those that want to check it out. Pipe floating issue kzbin.info/www/bejne/d4TJfKJmmbB1mLc&ab_channel=SatisfactoryClipsArchive Belts/Pipes calculation change starts 4:40 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3qum4Vrn7upb7s&ab_channel=CoffeeStainStudios

[@jackblade281]

@@nstag8r chefs kiss, love when sources are there :P ANd yea since the problems and how the show up are so so inconsistent, I made this video assuming they are ALL there so whatever shows up for an individual person there is something that will help XD

[@warc8us]

I have a fairly long single pipeline running from a lake to two Aluminum refineries. By the time the water gets to the two machines the pipes are nearly empty. Do I just need to insert pumps every X number of tiles or what is the issue? I even tried adding more water extractors and making the whole pipeline Mk2 thinking it was an overall flow-rate issue but if anything that made the situation worse. Is there a limit to how far water will travel in a long pipe? I have looked up several KZbin videos on this and no one talks about length of pipe vs flowrate or flowrate decreasing over a long single pipeline. This pipeline is mostly horizontal and starts with a huge water tower that is much higher than the rest of the pipeline.

[@jackblade281]

I would have to run a test to see if there is a limit but there shouldn't be, what I would say is let the refineries fill up and the pipes as well, and don't turn on the refineries until everything is completely saturated, if it never saturates there is some kind of blockage or pipes not connecting on the way. Alternatively reverse what you move where, move the bauxite and stuff to the water instead of the other way around

[@Carmo_TDM15]

Hiiiii I can't use the trick of joining two sections of pipe with the pump on the mk2 pipes

[@jackblade281]

if the pipe segments are way too long, it wont work. also, I haven't extensively tested it after 1.0 so I don't know the exact specs for making it work yet. But try shorter segments for now

[@Carmo_TDM15]

@@jackblade281 yea it was exactly my line of reasoning and still nothing I even replaced the same exact pipes with mk1 and I got it without any problems but when I put mk2 back I couldn't get it again I'm really confused as I never had any problems before 1.0 and now with the same exact setup I'm having problems

[@jackblade281]

@@Carmo_TDM15 I would recommend splitting your pipes up then so you can stick with mk1 tbh

[@isothermicotter]

I hate pipes soooooo much...

[@jackblade281]

XD they are hell until you figure out a system that works for you

[@isothermicotter]

@@jackblade281 Yeah, its crazy how different they act depending on things even as simple as the machine you are playing on.

[@jackblade281]

@@isothermicotter yea, thats why I tried to make a method here that kinda goes through and removes ALL things that could go wrong, I released a video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n37QhmBrfpatea8 That goes into even more fixes to make fuel power setups 100% stable

[@404-Error-Not-Found]

KZbin reccomened this video to me hard. Like 5 times.

[@jackblade281]

KZbin thinks you have flow rate issues XD

[@404-Error-Not-Found]

@@jackblade281 I've been using satisfactory videos as my white noise to sleep lately. Maybe it knew this was a good one, and it definitely was. Ended up dreaming about solving differential equations to get the right flow rates. Kind of on topic.

[@jackblade281]

@@404-Error-Not-Found lol, thats hillarious XD But good that you got good sleep though!

[@cobaltofdoom]

There is some very bad info on this video mixed in with good For one, as confirmed by devs, mk2 pipes aren't bugged they work as intended - you fail to mention looping the system so that machines creating stutters by pulling fluid into them don't stutter the whole system Valves and buffers are unreliable 'solutions'. They more often than not cause issues in a system. The only places, if you want reliable set ups, that you have buffers? Train platforms. Valves only send X fluid pm through a point if the pipe is full, if the pipe is full and feeding a machine that consumes X , then the machine regulates flow. A system that works with a valve will work w/o a valve.

[@jackblade281]

if that works for you I am happy, and won't argue with you. However that does not make my info bad, it's just not for you. The loop is only good for systems that aren't ever 100% saturated, I will bring it up in an upcoming video on fuel generator setups and byproduct handling The valves and buffers are great when used correctly and in the right situations. Once again, I have not gone into detail in this video because it becomes relevant with Fuel Generators and Nuclear Power and I will reserve time in those videos to really go through how to use them. And no, not all systems work without a valve, I have seen at least 10 different fuel gen setups the last week that were helped specifically by fluid buffers and valves, especially when loading up a save.

[@cobaltofdoom]

@@jackblade281 systems *should* be 100% saturated. Always pre flood your systems. 1. it helps manage back flow as fluids flow to more empty spots and not having a flooded system can create sloshing that may permanently destabalise systems 2. it's excellent trouble shooting, since if you start off with a flooded system and you see a machine start to starve you know there's a flow issue In basically every system a valve or buffer is used the system will run fine w/o them. Again, valves will only allow it's marked flow to pass through it when it's *full*, which you apparently don't like, and at that point, the machines consuming the flow will regular how much goes down the pipe. Making the valve pointless and just another possible failure point. And it's not that it's *impossible* to have functioning systems with valves and buffers, it's the difference between carrying plates to the table to set dinner, and juggling them to the table. While sure, you *can* juggle them, it just shouldn't be how you teach people how to set the table.

[@stabojert]

I guess this is why we didn't get mk3 pipelines 🤔

[@jackblade281]

1000% 😂 we can't even deal with the mk2 pipes XD

[@fro3054]

Skill issue... call it what you want. "Follow some vague rules and hopefully it will work somehow, if not, fuck around with it until it does" is not very satisfactory.

[@jackblade281]

a lot of people are using my method and it works for solving their issues. I still place the blame on CSS for not properly developing a pipe and fluid system that is intuitive and also, that has any form of tutorial in game. For now we have to use our workarounds and this video shared mine, if they don't work for you, or if I don't, I am not demanding you stay.

[@Griswold7Slicer]

Deleting pipe to rebuild the exact same pipe to fix a system is not a skill issue. Getting fluids to work is the equivalent of finding an Easter egg because you’ve left no stone unturned. That’s not a skill issue it’s a time commitment issue.

[@charliebrenton4421]

YES, My Man, yes! Coffee Stain is great but they stubborn as hell about fixing these pipes. A 600 pipe should push 600. Or at least tell me the math so I can figure it out.

[@MrKalidascopeEyes]

It's several machines pushing and taking at separate times. Add a tank between let it saturate. The tank itself will prevent sloshing

[@mvaiks]

Unbelievable that ppl still think that there is a bug related to mk2 pipes at this day and age.

[@jackblade281]

Its emotionally easier to be frustrated over a "bug" than it is to be frustrated over not figuring out a mechanic, because one of them is your fault, the other isn't. I don't blame anyone who does this, we are only human, all of us. It is when people areasking for help and I give it and the response is "nah bro, its bugged" instead of actually using the offered solution it is draining me, and I could have spent that energy helping someone who actually wanted help... Not just moan about stuff and try to be right on the internet XD

[@RossoCarne]

My main criticisms about this section of the game, as someone who works in the chemical industry, are: 1) the fluid mechanics in this game are so jank, and it seems to be a mixture of lazy coding and utter lack of research. The devs will put so much time and effort to fix the floating point calculation, but can't even code that head shouldn't reset at the inlet of a pump. It's so strange. And the raw numbers on equipment are just off as well. An industrial water pump for a large plant should be able to output 70-90 psi without even thinking, and the flow rate should be much lower. Satisfactory's water extractors are centrifugal pumps so pressure is their job. And it wouldn't just mean building more because the amount of water going into power buildings, when converted into steam generation, doesn't line up at all with what a generator would make with that amount of steam. They just threw numbers at a dart board and used that. Not to mention that the pipeline pumps are just awful. They are visually a PD piston pump, which means that every time the buffer on a building is full it would likely rupture thanks to the cut off flow. I could go on --------- 2) The playerbase's obsession with 100% efficiency is so dumb, you'd never be able to run a plant right on the edge of perfect flow and perfect pressure going into a system. Conditions change, and you build your system to account for that. Provide a pressurized header so you always have flow. Always build a stand tank to account for system instability. But no, Satisfactory players have gotten it ingrained in their heads that 100% efficiency is the only way. It's brain rot I get that things are gamified but it just ruins the game

[@jackblade281]

there is a thin line between gamifying something and realism, I can unerstand why the devs chose the numbers they did, but the second point, about 100% efficiency, that I agree with, adding in a buffer or downclocking a system is fine if it makes it stable, rather than 100% effective

[@RossoCarne]

@@jackblade281 I mean, it's one thing to say you understand why, but the numbers are just random. It takes about 10 minutes to actually do the calculations and use numbers that halfway represent what's going on, that's just laziness at that point

[@jlatture1]

There's no answer other than don't use mk2 pipes.

[@jackblade281]

as much as possible, yes but you can still have other issues that happen regardless of if you use Mk2 or Mk1

[@jlatture1]

@@jackblade281 I have 375,000 MW of power using mk 2. 93% and moderate power flux. Switched to mk2 and resigned, 425,000mw 100% no power flux. Some of your tips with mk2 in this and previous vid helped but never 100%

[@jackblade281]

@@jlatture1 I am just happy you have gotten it to work! It's so finnicky, needlessly complicated and if someone out there says they have 100% grasped fluid dynamics in Satisfactory, they are missing something XD

[@Spleensgaming]

The devs confirmed that there is no mk2 pipe bug. There are only flow rate issues when you have back flow in your system. Fill up the pipes before starting machines to fix it.

[@jlatture1]

@@jackblade281 I had a mega coal power plant ~30gw with mk2 pipes going thousands of meters with the water. In 50 hrs, no flow rate issues using mk1 pipes. Even with letting the system fill, raising pipes, using pims etc etc, never can get 100% throughput with mk2 pipes

[@CarlDamn]

First.

[@jackblade281]

Damn, you were even faster than me with commenting XD

[@jessebobonweed5999]

hammerback