Guide to Tool Steel for Knife Makers

[@ChrisUhlik]

I love these distilled knowledge videos. Thanks for the practical summary of a complex topic.

[@murphy13295]

yup .

[@lapislignum]

"precision is made out of money" - love it!

[@nox_chan]

.1=$ .01=$$ .001=$$$ .0001=$$$$

[@jameskennedy5774]

P

[@derrikferguson3219]

Thanks for the great vids. They really are in a sweet spot for those wanting to expand their knowledge of steel and knives but not overwhelmingly technical.

[@gorillafunk725]

Great educational resource. Cheers & thanks. Many knifemakers put up vids but explain nothing. You explain in detail. May your genorosity of time & effort be richly rewarded.

[@timjackson5555]

Thank You Mr. Sorrells One thing that might have thrown a wrench at me was not normalizing after forging. I normalized the next two and found better results in my grinding. Stopped fighting the cracking issues, hopefully.

[@BlueCollarDIY]

I love 01. I'd use it exclusively if it was more rust-resistant. Just look at it wrong and it starts to rust, but what an edge it holds!

[@Big222Dog]

Walter I just want to say I appreciate your willingness to share tips & info. I live in N. Ireland & it's a nightmare getting good knife steels. I buy it all from England & even then not easy. So videos like this help me define my search. I'm retired so my brain hurts when I use it too much😂😂. Thanks again, Hugo Dale.

[@kutzbill]

I was a toolmaker and engineer for 42 years. I have done some screwing around with tool steels. A couple things I want to add if I may. One is about S-7. If you get it up to temp, and quench, you will have to draw it down some. I've tested on RC up to 72. Which means it will be too hard and very brittle. I've never took a regular tool steel up that far. We would either have a vacuum furnace or tool wrap the A-2. It can lose some elements if this isn't done. Be careful of M-42 Cobalt. It will also get too hard and shatter on you. Still the best advice you can get is to keep it simple, and enjoy what you do. I am very much a novice at making knifes, but I enjoy making stuff out of old crap. My Uncle started me out in Blacksmithing when I was 8. I've enjoyed my career and was very lucky to do what I did. I got to work with some very smart people. Now I want to hammer steel, and pass on anything I can. Good video Mr. Sorrells, thank you for posting! Smiles.

[@backyardblacksmith3090]

Start a channel

[@cadewamsley5934]

It's impossible to get s7 to 72 hrc. m42 maybe if your heat treating tolerances are very tight

[@ajhproductions2347]

kutzbill dude we’d all like to hear from you. How can we contact you or you should really start a channel!

[@captTed]

@@john wick I ended up getting some O2 steel. I made a bowie knife with it (22cm blade length, 34cm overall). O2, i would say, has less flex than the other 2 steels and is a bit harder. I did a test blade, and it took a LOT(seriously) of force to break, with the blade having a width of 0.5 cm. Bear in mind, it didn't bend very much, it just broke instantly. It is also quite hard to sharpen, so there is a lot of elbow grease involved doing that. Lastly it rusts moderately easy if exposed to humidity for prolonged periods of time without any care, as does any high carbon steel, but thas not a problem for me. All in all i find it an excellent steel for tools and bushcraft knives, or any knife for that matter, but i wouldn't make a sword with it since it lacks the flex/springiness needed. Hope i covered you with the above. If you plan to make a knife with it and want any help with heat treatmnet temperatures, tell me and i might be able to dig up some papers i had for O2 steel. P.S. I believe O2 steel is also known as k720 steel, so you can do a bit of research on your own, cheers

[@michaelmartin9335]

@@cadewamsley5934wrap it in stainless steel foil to prevent decarberizing take it to 1875 f then flush quench it in 150 f oil to 1000 f dull red. Then air cool to 150 f. It will go to 68 to 72 Rc. Temper it at 600 f before it goes below 125 f. Must do double tempering. This should give u a 56 to 60 Rc great cutting edge that will withstand alot of stress.

[@briantw7096]

Wonderful video. Giving the basic rundown in a simple and straightforward way everyone can understand.

[@Lou.B]

Very helpful video for a complete lay person! I've got a milk crate full of big dies (30-40#) from a diecutting company that I used to work for and I always wondered if it was suitable for a camp knife. Now I think it must be, so I'm going to hunt around for a local knife maker who might trade the steel for a knife. Wish me luck!

[@saartal4524]

I'm using O1 tool steel and I love it. Thanks for sharing.

[@SamlSchulze1104]

Thank you so much for helping me understand the steel i need for a tool I'm making.

[@jerzykowalczuk2107]

Thank you Walter for your clarification on steel kinds. Sixteen minutes of pure knowledge. Now it deliberately known why tools' steel is not perfect as some of the guys promote it on yt.

[@DoggoWillink]

For anyone who needs some beginner info on 1084, 1095 and W2, absolutely huge enormous wall of text below... I’m bored clearly, but also I think certain bits of info can make a big difference as they did for me. 1084 is the easiest of that group. It will harden in oil, and it doesn’t require any precision as far as soaking it. You just heat it up and quench it in canola oil (or whatever you have, however I’ve had good luck with heated canola oil, even with 1095). You can easily use 1084 with a small single burner forge, or even a torch I’d imagine. 1095 is a little trickier. 1095 is right on the line between water and oil hardening, it’s “hyper-eutectoid”. This steel needs to be quenched very quickly. I don’t mean that you need to run to the quench from the forge (be brisk though), it just means that it has to drop from around 1300-1400 F to 800-900 F or so in less than a second (google the exact numbers if interested, I forget tbh). This is why people recommend fast quench oil like “Parks 50”. However, water will of course work, and even preheated canola oil will work. I’ve done both. W2 is similar to 1095 in the sense that it has to be quenched quickly. This is no surprise as it’s water hardening steel 2. You can use fast quench oil here, but the only time I’ve done it I’ve used salty (with some dish soap in it also) water, slightly heated. Until recently I haven’t had fast oil available. Keep in mind also that water is a much safer method in terms of your safety and the shop’s, so that’s another thing to consider. 50 quench oil has a low flashpoint, and isn’t exactly edible. It’s also not cheap or easy to obtain. So learning how to use water isn’t a bad idea. W2 I used specifically for a hamon, and it did in fact give a nicer one than the 1095 I have. Keep in mind that with both of these steels it is recommended that you “soak” them, so they aren’t necessarily the easiest steels for just heating something up and quenching it. If you use a forge or similar method, getting it right isn’t as easy as 1084 for example. Your best bet is to get used to the colors, use a magnet, and try to at least get the steel to soak at above critical for a minute or two. Get it to that nice red, non magnetic color where the darker “shadow” spots go away, and let it go a bit higher into a that slightly orange, solid red color and try to hold it there (don’t go hotter at this point if you can, if anything let it slowly go back down a tiny bit, but obviously you have to be around the 1450 area still when you quench). If you can pull this off without over heating it TOO much to start with, it will come out well. You don’t need an oven, it’s just easier. I actually bought a pyrometer with a ceramic thermocouple that can read up to 2200 F, but I found that it doesn’t help all that much without a really good implementation of it. If you can check the temp to get a reference between temp and color, that’s a good use of it I think. However it’s difficult to set it up in a forge that’s open where air moves through and the flame itself touches or doesn’t touch the blade. I think making a small confined section out of steel to put the knife in, where you can then monitor that small area, may work. Also with water leave your grind thick before heat treat, that’s a good way to attempt to avoid cracks and warps. You can safely grind a lot of material after hardening, as long as you have some good belts, a bucket of water, and patience. Don’t wear gloves... if the blade is warm you’ll feel it. Also high quality ceramic lower grit belts like 36 take off more without causing as much heat. This is important to keep in mind. You can take off a lot of steel without the blade even becoming hot to the touch.

[@krustysurfer]

Mahalo

[@sirblacksmith2297]

thanks for this info, its stuff like this thats hard to find for a young beginner like me

[@jaimethiessen]

Hey. What steel would a gun barrel likely be? And to add a contrasting metal for a Damascus layering, what would you pair it with? Thanks.

[@Divine_Serpent_Geh]

Doggo Willink Yup, water quenching has been around for thousands of years. Just got to find a way that works for you. You can also interrupt the quench to avoid cracks, which is really the worse that can happen. Warping is not to much of an issue, and can be fixed. Differentially hardening something like 1095 also helps with pinging and cracking.

[@mikafoxx2717]

Yep, if you're a beginner and got 1095 because you were a little misinformed.. don't get it too hot since it dissolves too much carbon and causes grain growth which reduces toughness a lot, the. Water quench, maybe interrupted if you can practice. From the heat to water fast without air cooling, once it's down from ~1450 to 800, you're safe and can let it cool a little more slowly. It's when the crystal structure changes from austenite that it changes size some, so avoid fast cooling thru that point, but you have to avoid the temperature range that the carbon can quickly diffuse out to make pure ferrite without other elements to hinder the speed. 1084 is very near the .77% eutectic, plus a little extra since it's not instant dissolving, just heat it up and it'll move fast, won't get too brittle since the carbon is lower, and it'll quench a little slower without so much carbon trying to force it out of solution.

[@johnmutton799]

What would be good for a axe head? Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Appreciated Sir.

[@leighchristopherson2455]

O1 can be sourced as unground barstock. You don't have to pay for the precision. I was on a site out of Calgary Alberta, that sold it. They sold a variety of thicknesses as well. 1/16", 1/8", 5/32", 3/16", and 1/4". By the foot.

[@montelott8570]

Thanks Walter for solid info for the would be beginner knife maker.

[@shonuffisthemaster]

my local steel place has drops (off cuts) O-1, A-2, D-2, etc at $1.25 / lb (they are typically around $10-13 / lb when bought full price). typically these have been in sizes and shapes.that stock removal guys wouldnt have much use for, but for smiths they are great. definatly worth checking out if your area has an open to the public steel supplier.

[@justaamateur6533]

How is the heat treatment with d2? Great video also!

[@timberanvil3788]

Actually Walter, I made a really good hard knife from mild steel. I pack carburized several strips of mild steel then forge welded them together and folded a couple times - finally I carburized it again for good measure and ended up with a beautiful blade that took a beautiful etch. It's blister and shear steel - a very old technique of controllable, hardenable steel production.

[@mikafoxx2717]

Any way to estimate the carbon content of such a steel? Time and surface area?

[@ChopKnives]

Brilliant - thanks for that Walter. A great resource to keep coming back to.

[@stevenmccrickard1401]

New sub, thanks for the content. I found your video very informative, and look forward to watching more from your channel.

[@MrRogsmart]

Lots of good info in this one. Thanks for the rundown.

[@joelaut12]

Very informative Walter. Nicely explained in a simple straightforward manner. Oh and love that “ harder than a bag of chicken livers” 😂😂😂

[@beardedarchery3576]

Could do a video like this one talking about CPM series of materials and their differences

[@BobBlarneystone]

Thanks for the info. As a woodworker, I'm interested in handplane blades, so O1 should ok. For lathe tools, a HSS such as M2 is probably best. However, my question is about sharing a programmable oven with my daughter who is a glassworker. Do you know of any complications that might occur if steel is processed in the same oven as glass? My daughter is giving me the side-eye about this. She's concerned about cross-contamination of glass with steel residues that may alter the color or hardness of her art pieces.

[@brandya10]

Great information clear and to the point, nicely done. Getting closer to jumping in (no fancy shop tools) hobby, not production.

[@d-op1502]

Some of the best scavangible steel I have some across is snow plow cutting edge pieces. Also have had good luck with woods bushhog mower blades. Both steels are the toughest steel I have ever come across and are easily hardened.

[@andrewmcgibbon9785]

L6 steel was the steel that saw blades were made from before the advent of carbide tipped saw blades. When the lumber industry went to carbide tooling manufactures cut way back on making L6. There is a similar Chromium Nickel steel called 8670 that is available. I have only ever seen it in 3/16 stock so industry must have a very specific use for it. Kind of like you can only find 5160 in .200 or .250. Retired Knife maker John Greco used to use 8670 on a lot of knives.

[@centralwashingtonmodernbus9456]

In your experienced opinion, what steel would you say most commercial saw mill planer blades be made of? I have two big planer blades, One will be made into a Kephart blade.

[@SocratesFil]

Thanks for the video. You solved many of my questions I had for years!

[@Watcherrye]

If by chance you wanted to know what type/kind of steel is used in ie. Flexcut woodcarving tools. How would "you" Walter or whoever is so kind to answer this question, ask the company in a letter or whatever? Mostly they will say "High Carbon Steel". As you know there are a few different types of "High Carbon Steel". Most will not say is a D2 HC content. and Stainless Steel can come in types that are equal to and the quality can go up and down the scale like a musician on the scale. Some would not tell you with a bright light and a rubber hose used on them.

[@micrometalworks9844]

Very informative. Great explanation on different types of steel

[@markspc1]

Good video Mr. Sorrells and thank you !

[@glenpiro313]

Another great video, thank you Sir!

[@jojomama4787]

Very,very interesting edition!You probably helped more people than you know.I've been making knives as a hobby for some time and there is a lot more knowledge here than I can say...THANKS!!!

[@donscottvansandt4139]

What about old Chinese wrenches? Will the chrome mess you up?

[@steelandsanderoutdoors2617]

What steel would be best for a big game hunting knife? Skinning and cutting meat? Something that holds a good sharp edge and can be easy resharpen in field, that won't chip on bone? Thanks

[@krustysurfer]

Mahalo Walter! nice video, great information for the beginning smith.

[@brendanoneill6267]

Thanks for the info 👍

[@DeepTheta]

Your videos are excellent.. Thank you so much

[@taiming71]

You are a wealth of knowledge and excellent communicator.

[@rifleman7313]

Would metal files/rasps be classified as a tool steel? Or would either files/rasps be suitable for making knives?

[@zackw.3897]

So what would you say is the best beginner knife steel that I can easily get? I know you went into detail in the video but I’m wondering what you think is the best for me

[@jmsmith1767]

Great video, I love learning more metallurgy!! Thanks Walter

[@wessmith7678]

what about T1 steel? will that make a good knife, if so how would I go about the heat treat?

[@francesmendenhall189]

freind of mine hardened an 8670 nickel steel blade in 140 degree water, doing an interrupted quench. blade came out straight and hard with no cracking.he says that hot water cools steel slower than cold water, but faster than ordinary oil.

[@derekhartley4480]

I've made lots of punches and blanking dies out of S7. I've heard of people using it for chisels as well, I'm assuming that would mean it would probably be good for an axe or machete, maybe even a cleaver. Chopping tools. I do have to sharpen them quite frequently though. I'd guess its edge holding ability isn't great but it could just be heavy use.

[@martimnogueira3566]

Walter, this was a very instructional video and I enjoyed every little bit. An idea for a next video would be types of steel for hammers and tongues.

[@dr.seppjausen9778]

I love Ur Videos! Really feels like i learn a ton watching! Thanks so much! Greetz from Austria

[@MCYCCFL]

Very helpful. Thank you.

[@arinrynegray3457]

Walter what is the best stainless steel for a beginner knife that will harden easy

[@Gazzasore]

Hi Walter I live near a Gold Mine Is the steel used for Drill Rod steel good for making knife's I have access to all the used or broken Rods and Shanks etc Cheers Gary

[@E4tenHaus]

I have no clue but I would probably think that it would be good for knives Just a theory

[@bogus_not_me]

I'm a new subscriber, and found your video very helpful. I'd like to make a couple knives and a drawknife for woodworking. You mentioned 1095 but didn't give much info about it, but that was one I was thinking of using. I'm not on ANY social media so those links don't help me.

[@coalsauce4457]

1084 is a lot easier to heat treat than 1095

[@tmobbomt]

Would you need a shock restaurant steel for the head of a throwing axe or is the mass enough that this won't be an issue

[@Yonatan24]

Precision is made out of money - I like that!

[@TonberryV]

M2 is awesome knife steel. Key is asking them (best have the professionals do this one) to draw back the temper cycle to under full-hard, otherwise you will get chipping if you put too fine of an edge on it.

[@hoorpari3688]

Thank you Mr. Sorrels, I have learnt a lot from you. I have a question is there any real benefit of making a knife out HSS (M2)? Thank you so much

[@MountainFisher]

L6 is used for sawmill bandsaw blades and is 0.75% carbon with 1.75% nickel plus some other alloys, it's great for bush craft knives or for forging with 1084 to make Damascus. Makes great ax heads too that you can leave hard around HR 59. O1 has 0.5% of chrome and tungsten with 0.20% of vanadium which at that % restricts grain growth during heat treat a desirable thing, but if treated correctly you get chromium and tungsten carbides in the carbide matrix. That's why O1 is a great beginner's steel. Heat to 1475 for 15 minutes and you can use canola oil for the quench, then you temper in your oven at 425, let it heat up with the oven, for two hours two times. It will be about Rockwell hard C scale 59-60 which will hold and edge all day without being brittle because of that vanadium and manganese which all the steels have. If you're using a forge you heat until it becomes non-magnetic and hold it there for 5 minutes or so depending upon how hot your forge gets then quench and temper. Not as good as a heat treat oven, but it will be hard.

[@lukefindlay4651]

Hi Walter , I have an old diamond tipped concrete cutting blade to practice knife making , “stock removal” I was under the impression given the nature of the blade it would be hard already. But it bent in the vice. I’ve seen a video a fella quenches in water and god a better result than oil. Could you recommend any tips to heat treat this type of steel?

[@dreadnought8363]

Another interesting kind of steel are bearing steels. Maybe you could talk talk about them?

[@loul7239]

Dreadnought of blades usually 52100 steel from what I’m told. Some famous knife makers use it almost exclusively. I know nothing about heat treating it mainly because it would be nuts to forge a big bearing without a press. I know I’d have a red hot bearing rolling around my shop!

[@luistapia1942]

52100 is a nice one to mention.

[@loul7239]

Luis Tapia I was also shocked he didn’t mention 5160 for swords and axes. Granted, it is a spring steel and not as high carbon as a real tool steel, but it is great steel for beginners who want to make bigger blades.

[@ponderingturtle2720]

Those are not tool steels though.

[@dreadnought8363]

@@loul7239 luckily i can buy it in round stock 😉😂. I`ve also read about other bearing steels, but 52100 seems to be most known.

[@Surtac100]

I made a knife from a old stihl saw bar about 20years old. I have read it might be L6 but not sure. Parts of the bar was hardened so I know it can be hardened. My problem is when I heat treat The knife I can’t get it to harden. I heat it with a acetylene torch dunk in oil but still soft!!! Why?!?!

[@bhaygood7306]

Thanks for the redo an update thank 👍🙏

[@rwilson6368]

Walter, thank you very much! This is probably the most informative video I have ever seen! Kudos, and I will like, subscribe and share. I like all your videos, but in my opinion this is the best one!

[@ivysinistra]

How would you HT a longer blade? I've been unsuccessful in trying to get the damn thing to critical. Blade length is probably 10 or 12 inches.

[@Fogyt121]

What setup are you using?

[@ivysinistra]

large coffee can lined with kaowool and a shitty bernzomatic torch.. it's recently just started crapping out on me. UPS should deliver the regulator eventually and then I can switch to a real burner.

[@Fogyt121]

Maybe if you add a second torch at the end it would help paint the heat better. It doesn't have to be in the can, just pointing in the orifice.

[@ivysinistra]

Thing is the can isn't quite tall enough to fit the whole blade. I tried torching it outside of the forge but it just didn't work right. I could use the bernzomatic and the regular burner together, that might work

[@bernabesanchez387]

What are you using as a heat source? I’ve used a trench about two feet long by six inches deep about the same width filled with coal and i use a hair drier to get it to critical temp and it’s worked well for larger blades

[@chewyakarieckenicholas6049]

Just wanted to ask you a quick question about RR spring clips what kind of steel do you think they are made of

[@michaelpowell2902]

What would you recommend for blacksmithing tools, my next project is to make the tools i need to make my own hammer. Just starting research now.

[@ManCrafting]

How timely. I was just having a long conversation about this. I have very easy access to tool steel locally, but steel like 1095 I have to order. As far as I know. Do you know anyone in the Atlanta area that carries other popular knife making steels? Thanks.

[@aequitasification]

I have only made two knives from D2 and commonly use A2, so maybe I got some bad D2… but it rusted a lot more quickly just sitting in the shop than A2 ever has. I’ll have to look into that more.

[@thaknobodi]

Stainless and semi stainless steels arent stainless until final heat treatment. Something about bringing the "chromium into solution."

[@cobra035]

Can AR 200 be used for knife making? I really enjoy your channel.

[@auroraborealisknives4019]

S7 and L6 makes good choppers as well

[@Malegole]

Hey Walter, i was wondering if you could water quench say 1095 or 5160 in water if you clayed it for a Hamon? If you wanted to acheive that “katana curve” in quench. Or would oil still be the best bet? Cheers

[@thereallevel27]

5160 won't hammon with clay. A differential heat will get you a good line

[@FPSNovaS]

I went to a shop and they gave me 4 bars of O1that were .750”thick and 5-7” long but they are too thick what should I do? Get her cherry red and hammer it flat? Or should I wait and when I get working in a shop and mill it flat enough?

[@MountainFisher]

S5 btw is tougher at 60 hardness than any super steel. I used it forging axes.

[@janchristoffervik7694]

How do you profile your knives? Just put it flat on your grinder?

[@bain5872]

A wealth of information in a laid out, bare minimum amount of time. No, bull shit. I call this a win and clicked the thumbs up! Thank you for sharing on behalf the half million metal workers to come in the future.

[@JustinTopp]

At the start you said you can’t harden welding steel/ mild steel. What about case harden

[@HolzDennis]

Could you please say something about PM Steels? I bought CPM154 Steel and don’t know much about it...

[@stevefavero3204]

Thank you for this video! Just getting started into stock removal and got some O1. Was worried when everything I was seeing was talking about a 20-30 soak time. What's your tempering procedure on O1?

[@357magdad]

This was a very informative video - I even took notes!

[@MrCherrygrovedude]

01 steel for me. Just finished an axe head yesterday.

[@aimremodellingaesthetics6423]

Wonderful information for the curious. Thanks

[@jamiecollins2117]

you can case harden mild steel

[@chriskincaid6035]

Thank You.

[@Uncephalized]

"I mean, it's harder than a bag of chicken livers, but it's not hard enough..." LOL Walter. Love ya man.

[@robertfandel9442]

What are automobile leaf spring's

[@Bob_Adkins]

I challenge you (and everyone) to make a knife from M2 or M3 HSS. That stuff is crazy. You can't anneal it, can't drill it except with a carbide bit, can't harden it, but that's OK, it's 65-68 RC anyway. I made 1 from flat stock, it's easy to sharpen razor sharp and holds an edge better than any steel I have seen. It's a little brittle, but not dangerous unless you do something stupid.

[@mikafoxx2717]

Good old air hardening! Worst thing ever for blacksmithing the stuff, it doesn't move under a hammer either and when it cools it's hard as glass.

[@_BLANK_BLANK]

Idk high speed steels can be great for knives in my opinion. M4 is a pretty popular one, and definitely isn't too brittle. That is just one example, but there are a ton of great high speed steels that works very well in knives.

[@apexmitch7986]

Always great information. Thank you Walter.

[@helgepaulingebrigtsen9756]

Mitch Uebrick oioooooo

[@helgepaulingebrigtsen9756]

Mitch Uebrick oøöooooøøøppååæä'

[@louisaziz1235]

Walter, New to forging. Is motor oil o.k. for quenching, and if not why. Thank you.

[@WildHuntKnives]

No, toxic fumes when you quench in it and leaves toxic residues on the blade

[@davidw1634]

Would you be able to just reshape an old file and heat treat it

[@ColCurtis]

I have made hardenable steel out of mild steel. If you want to see how to make files from mild steel watch clickspring make files.

[@martinl935]

Great video thanks.

[@brandondirocco9816]

Would you use h series for hot cut tools?

[@runozwritu]

Awesome video, sir.

[@josephchestnut3770]

I have a bar of M2, (that was given to me) on my work bench, that's been there for months now. Every time I look at it, I get nauseous thinking about trying to do anything with it.

[@therory6888]

A-6 Tool Steel for swords? Anyone have any experience with this tool steel? And thanks for another great video Walter!

[@bradsingleton3964]

@ walter sorells what would high alloy mean ive tried but for the life of me cant pin this down i bought a couple of big armstrong wrenches to make stuff out of but want to get the best quality i can without haveing to guess to much for my quench seems it could be water or oil hardened should i just heat a few small pieces and test any advice would be apreciated thankyou for your time in advance

[@pochdelprado7830]

Greetings, Walter. I have scrap steel shaft that came from my vehicle's steering system. Can I use this for knife making? Thank you

[@huckstirred7112]

Do a spark test . Look up spark test on u tube

[@Loan--Wolf]

for the life of me i cant rember now the name but a top end knife maker said 1080 and 1085 was in his opinion the best to learn with because it was so forgiving to heat treat