Guitar Hero Drums are BROKEN

[@addymillscustoms]

Epilepsy warning at 3:35

[@acai28]

man a lot of this makes so much sense, the kicks being charted as a different length in Hotel California causing the broken notes is such an insane oversight

[@addymillscustoms]

@@acai28 Yeah! And the crazy part is, that roll repeats at the very end of the song, but is charted correctly with the same lengths there

[@potatolord5774]

Omg acai

[@CrashieTunez]

Omg u the goat

[@acai28]

this reminds me of the old Exilelord videos talking about GH3, extremely well produced!

[@Konokular]

Agreed.

[@DaUsername]

17:00 They fixed the 522/521 notes bug, but now you can apparently hit 7/6 Star Power Phrases.

[@addymillscustoms]

@@DaUsername The bugs never end!

[@Mickelraven]

​@@addymillscustoms Well, the bugs start coming and they don't stop coming. Fed to the games that I hit the drum wrongin'. Didn't make sense that the drums aren't fun. Their (Neversoft) brains get smart, but their heads still dumb.

[@Onyxite]

I looked into Overkill a while ago when BirdmanExe was grinding it, and I think you are correct that it's the low tempos. Specifically - to my understanding, GH3 and GHWT use whatever the tempo is at the start of the song to determine the threshold in milliseconds for a note to be considered a sustain. Because Overkill starts at a much higher tempo and then gets very low for those 3 notes, I believe even though they were authored as 32nd notes in MIDI, they qualify as sustains, and kick sustains are of course not supported in GHWT so you get this unintended buggy behavior.

[@PuppetMasterIX]

Most credible theory I've heard regarding the section. If that's the case then the fact they're even hittable at all - albeit with truly arcane methods - is miraculous.

[@aWiseMoose]

This is such a banger video, I did not know ANYTHING about these various drum quirks and now I know everything

[@NunoVH]

Great video! Interesting to learn the reasons for some of these quirks.

[@Crimsongz]

This emphasize how much all the missing exports pack that you made were essential ! Thank you.

[@mazda9624]

This video explains so much!! I always felt like I was much worse at drumming on Guitar Hero vs Rock Band, but it turns out that the games are just extremely broken 💀

[@charlottestreet3301]

I haven't played drums on rock band or guitar hero but when i watch a guitar hero you tuber play drums for guitar hero i prefer drums on the rock band chart. Just because on the guitar hero drums when you press blue it hits blue and yellow

[@TreyTruce]

youre really good at making videos about boring subjects interesting and digestible to someone out of the loop on stuff like this

[@Azodrak]

I only knew charts were broken but never knew what caused this issue, friendly reminder that WoR 4 lane is unfcable because invisible notes lmao Nice video

[@ThatTonnatoTenrec]

The Neversoft chefs were all professionals cooking real hard. They just did not know how drums worked and hit them with spoons.

[@kackers]

9:50 this immediately clicked in my head the stuff about the broken extra kicks in the chart when you play it in GH:WoR, I think someone finally FC'd it with ALL THREE kicks last year or the year before and it was an insane achievement

[@The_Red_Scare]

How'd they do it?

[@ragepoweredgamer]

DADDY ADDY UPLOAD! (Your exports for GH WoR literally revived my ability to play console GH with my son. Thank you so much.)

[@LocalAitch]

Addy out here dropping a banger tech video. What about the general brokenness of 4-lane drums? I've seen some *shit* with those, like being able to quad hit a single gem without overhitting

[@addymillscustoms]

I honestly don't know much about 4-lane's quirks! It would be neat to investigate in the future for sure

[@thedancingllama_13]

​@@addymillscustoms please do I'm curious about it before I go get me rock band drums because I want to play both series on my Xbox killer tec vid tho

[@JoelD77]

My experience with the sustains losing points is that if you stop playing them and allow them to “drop” before it reaches the end of its timing window, then you won’t lose points from it, as a workaround to not lose points for those that have that issue. And I don’t know if it’s right, but I only noticed it happened on sustains that had a length long enough to not be entirely visible on the screen when you hit them…

[@Mickelraven]

When I converted one of my customs to GHWTDE with your toolkit, I was wondering "where the hell are extra notes in this chart?" when I FC'd it on expert drums. Turns out I got a reason now. Thanks for the explanation Addy. :)

[@cookiedou3]

Very good video! Don't play drums that often myself but it's interesting having a bit of a deep dive into it.

[@zero28ism]

This is one of the best videos regarding the gh engine tbh, I always knew that the GH games had fucked up drums but I didn't know exactly why, this video cleared up a lot of what I was wondering (and also confirmed that I wasn't crazy when I felt that GH5 drums were impossible on expert even though I barely had issues with any other game in the franchise)

[@BongOfDestiny]

There's also a WOR specific bug where if a sustain clips into a regular note of the same color, then you can only hit that note late otherwise it won't register. The most extreme example of this is the ending of Sharp Dressed Man

[@addymillscustoms]

Did not know about this! I'll add it to my list for part 2, lol

[@PuppetMasterIX]

Other examples off the top of my head: "Burn" by Deep Purple (all choruses) and the cover of "Black Betty" by Ram Jam (outro).

[@JSanchez97]

What a nice video Addy. (didn't see it yet) Ye, I realized that GH Drums gameplay was... pretty broken in a way. In the end, this was all THPS fault lmao Well, at least WoR had a minor bug, what unintentionally gives gameplay a little difficulty up (some ppl could enjoy this shid) And despite all this, No. I'm not gonna say that RB it's better. Oh, and I like this videos too bud. I like your work with charts, but I really enjoyed this research video about my favourite game franchise. Looking forward to more content of yours, madlad!!!

[@Poirot633]

I remember sometimes hitting 101% in practice mode in some sections in GHWT back in the day. I think there's one instance in a very old drum compilation on my channel.

[@Jacket430]

Super interesting video, fantastic stuff.

[@PuppetMasterIX]

Minor note about the GH5 bug: Based on my experience, sections with slower double bass (ex. "Demon(s)" and "21st Century Schizoid Man") have a small but somewhat noticeable degree of frontend compared to sections with faster double bass (ex. "Scatterbrain", "Done With Everything..."). This seems to be because you're only allowed to hit the bugged kicks when the game stops checking for the missing X+ kick before it, and the resulting window size is dependent on the speed of the double bass (slower = larger, earlier minimum / faster = smaller, later minimum). This makes the faster songs even more annoying to combo because you're having to hit everything really stupidly late with very little leeway.

[@addymillscustoms]

I missed this comment earlier, but this makes the issue even more frustrating! Not only is the timing window adjusted in songs with double bass, but it also changes per song! Thanks for letting me know about that

[@Sherrybirkin2012]

0:12 No but ghwt has a few times, Holloywood nights on expert bass makes me want to scream my head off.

[@Sherrybirkin2012]

I know that has nothing to do with drums, but I couldn't resist bringing that up.

[@oktoberfesttheenthusiast]

Gave me old school ExileLord vibes here, great video Addy! 👍

[@johndoe9343]

3:34 - 3:42 Epilepsy warning

[@fromthegamethrone]

This needs to be higher up

[@MrElectricNick]

this is a damn excellent video. i remember when WoR came out and it ruined Shortest Straw X+. Was one of my favourite charts on GHM and I knew there had to be a good reason why it got absolutely wrecked. It all makes sense now.

[@MyCoolboy17]

You should talk about the broken charts in rock band that a lot of the rock band network songs had especially those harder songs like we are the nightmare, abraxes of filth, and your treachery will die for you, I wanna see how they differ from guitar hero’s problems seeing as they are using a midi file and not some weird proprietary way of charting songs

[@SomehowScarlet]

3:35 I was not expecting this extreme flashing

[@addymillscustoms]

"Overkill" goes a bit overkill on the lights

[@fromthegamethrone]

Yeah man, I'm glad I don't have epilepsy!!!

[@EnjoyGames_]

this is a very well made and interesting video. Please do more of this!

[@NotDingse]

As a IRL drummer playing mainly drums in GH and RB this was a video I didn't know I needed. But it might have just ruined all the GH games pre WoR for me... xD Are you gonna make a similar video on RB drums or are they not broken enough?

[@JafethTheXtreme]

As a non expert or even common drummer myself I found this very intersting

[@kukky22]

Very nice video, dude. I could listen to your voice for hours.

[@MaverickNE]

Very eye opening, loved this video. Thanks a lot for this explanation.

[@khaotix64]

And this is what happens when musicians don't work on a game about playing music...

[@LogeJit]

Very cool video! I always knew that some of the exports (mainly shortest straw) were broken af on X+ drums but i had no idea that it was because both the X and X+ kicks were being overlapped. It's ridiculous but it kinda makes sense now. You should totally consider making more niche engine related videos like this

[@kc_jones_gaming]

Anyone else’s orange pad double strike and never realized any of these issues until this video? I was always just doing my best with the drums 🤷‍♂️

[@jloe01]

One thing you neglected to mention is that GH drums have a baked in roll limit into the drum brains, at least I think. When playing with a RB kit, or the MPA, you can spam the drum pads by double stroking with the sticks and most, if not all of the hits should be recognized, but if you try to do the same on a GH kit, or on an e-kit connected to the brain, you will drop a lot of hits. Chris also mentioned he was way less consistent hitting the triple kicks in The Shortest Straw when playing on 5 lane compared to 4 lane.

[@addymillscustoms]

@@jloe01 A part 2 is already in the works to cover that! (Alongside some other stuff I want to clarify or missed) I never played 4-lane myself so I wasn’t aware it had its own issues

[@DJBisGOD]

Watching this video, if anything, makes me feel a bit more sane about when I was trying to play drums on this game. Before I played Guitar Hero on drums, I had already played drums in real life for roughly 10 years, so I knew what I was doing, even with double-kick (Expert+). I understand a portion of me not getting full 100% streaks is on me partially, but it shows that the mechanics were brokwn in these games. I even ended up getting a Rock Band kit and getting a custom interface so it could interact with Guitar Hero (complete with senitivity adjustment) and I would still be hitting notes I knew I hit and it would work, mainly with a lot of the double-kick stuff. If Guitar Hero ever comes back, I've got a massive catalog of songs I could play on my good Roland Kit, but we can only hope i guess...

[@JoshNotJohn0]

So basically gluing a guitar game on a skateboard game caused some issues?

[@thegrassgenie]

what makes all the guitar hero games harder too is they dont have a proper calibration system. at least on wii all the hero games have essentially a manual calibration, rockband has the hit the green note thing and its way more user friendly

[@AMudkipAmongUs]

I enjoyed this dive into video game mechanics

[@zeer0h_]

just crushed an entire pint of ice cream while watching this video, thanks for an informative and entertaining ice cream break

[@tade_]

I love this video. I always wanted to know why the broken notes existed in these games. Also seeing my own video in here is cool :)

[@addymillscustoms]

Glad you like the video! And thank you for having a nice quality run of “Put Your Records On” in Band Hero that I was able to use!

[@tStevester83]

Ohhhh my god it all makes so much sense now holy shit. Always wondering why GH5's drum engine was dogshit and just assuming it was my TV or something. Thank you so much for your sage wisdom.

[@dkvbhd]

Great video! Super interesting to finally find out why some of these long known bugs actually happened. Im surprised you didnt mention the issue with ghost orange notes for 4 lanes for WoR, just another oversight that makes the disc unFCable for 4 lane drummers due to BCS. Also, if possible, could you help me understand why Sharp Dressed Man is so busted? What do we need to do to hit this chart consistently?

[@addymillscustoms]

From what I read in another comment, it's that in WoR only, if a sustain has a note of the same colour immediately after it, that second note has its front-end removed, just like X kicks in GH5! It needs to be hit late in order for the game register it

[@fromthegamethrone]

"do you ever find yourself playing guitar hero drums know you hit all the notes?" Me: "No" 😔

[@sfisher923]

I first heard about the broken notes reading about the Down With Everything/Die for Nothing bug on the TV Tropes Page for Guitar Hero (YMMV Section under "That One Level") didn't know the games were this broken on drums (Mainly because I mained Guitar on those games back in those day)

[@AlbinoJedi]

I was an avid Guitar Hero drummer and probably still would be if I had a functioning drum controller (or compatible ekit). I found this technical deep dive fascinating. I also do PLC programming for work which made understanding the programming explanations probably easier than otherwise.

[@addymillscustoms]

@@AlbinoJedi Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Cyndadogo]

This was an amazing video, thanl you!

[@randomsaloom7238]

its weird how both rock band and guitar hero operate on a completely different engine from one another yet they "feel" like the same game sometimes just with a coat of paint

[@KaitouKaiju]

Harmonix started both series, and they are based on the Guitar Freaks arcade game

[@bigbananadealer846]

my drums ALWAYS either double hit or lose hits. i think i am just too strong for them 😂

[@beckybecky125]

GH Metallica also has an issue with the final sustain notes in Hell Bent for Leather I believe, on both X and X+

[@beckybecky125]

the GHWT DLC song "Commotion" is also broken on GHWOR but not anything else before it

[@donnaken15]

Sick powerpoint seeing all the major bugs introduced up to Band Hero even gave me conflicting hope if Warriors of Rock was going to have all that stuff fixed entirely, and it puzzles me how are there these many things that get overlooked by a big dev studio/publisher but then again look at how many Guitar Hero games came out in 2009 time for andyTHPS to start doing full drum playthroughs of the Guitar Hero games now the true bottom line is: GH3 (or Aerosmith :/ ) is literally the least broken of any of these games 17:42 LOL

[@Glitchgod0]

Great vid please make more 🙏

[@canadianstickdeath]

Ever since the official servers went down on Wii, you gotta disable the internet on your console to have a remotely playable experience in GH5 or later. Otherwise the game just gets more and more laggy and out of sync the longer you play. This doesn't really have anything to do with this video I guess lol.

[@beckybecky125]

so THAT'S why I was unable to FC stuff like an hour after playing

[@Seinfelf]

This makes sense. I tried playing Anything by Endless Sporadic on GHWT, and I found it impossible to get through the beginning section where there are supposed to be double kicks.

[@FlergerBergitydersh]

It's almost like they had no time to churn out broken games for a greedy publisher.

[@norris5754]

12:31 wow. i wonder who this "resident drummer" is?

[@GabrielEleres]

Hey Addy, I have a bunch of songs on my WoR on RGH 360 (customs AND your packs) and I'm struggling with extremely long loading time. Any tips on how to reduce it ? thxx edit: great video btw, you rock !

[@KalamShellaby]

Okay, it could've just been the two clips you showed, but both times the drum sustains deducted points, it was right before one of the freestyle sections (if that's what it's called). Maybe that has something to do with it?

[@addymillscustoms]

It's possible, but I don't think it's the only cause. Dayzeed has an FC of 21st Century Schizoid Man as well, and it happens on a sustain there also, but the note is not followed by a drum freestyle section

[@dquino01]

For the song Hot For Teacher, was the same issue there in Guitar Hero Van Halen as in World Tour?

[@addymillscustoms]

Hot for Teacher in GHVH does not have the same Stats Screen bug as GHWT. It was fixed with GHM.

[@tenderfingers7120]

enjoyed the video, do more like this

[@haggarduser]

Awesome video! I have a feeling that this same bug might be occurring in Clone Hero drums that have been imported from Rock Band DLC. I've played blackened by Metallica on Expert with the 2x kick modifier and it's got some triplets that seem to be the same bug mentioned at 15:47

[@ZedekThePlagueDoctor]

oh dear

[@addymillscustoms]

@@ZedekThePlagueDoctor Guess you’ll have to come back to WTDE now to fix this mess! 😉

[@pulsedex]

pls come back, we missed you :(

[@donnaken15]

I was even going to comment "Zedek left at the most inopportune time"

[@gizmo2917]

zedek i miss u

[@icekyng219]

earned a sub

[@The_Red_Scare]

*3:35** MASSIVE SEIZURE WARNING*

[@RuTnVI]

I forgot about Microsoft buying Activision. It would be so crazy they start selling new drumkits, so you can play along with the Riffmaster.

[@Mati12Osorio]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5u2oax_f9VklZosi=tKg6nXL-gI8Qnzgw Courtesy of GHAddict112 I've also looked this FC of Scatterbrain on WoR, and saw how on one of the sustained notes had SP power and it increased the SP like there was whammy, was it a glitch?

[@fromthegamethrone]

Great video! Please add an epilepsy warning though, there is some pretty extreme binary flashing just after the 3 minute mark.

[@KaitouKaiju]

Now I wonder do Rock Band games have the same issues? Or Clone Hero?

[@crash0verryde857]

these games were ass when they were first made...

[@Sithedd]

Further evidence that Rock band has always been superior. Guitar Hero after 2 was soulless. Get real people. There is a clear and present better product here since 2008.

[@yunjin909]

Idk, GH3, Metallica and Warriors of Rock have soul, plus guitar, aesthetic and animations are superior, though I agree Rock Band is superior in everything else, but GH isn't that far behind

[@naheo]

video needs more hex

[@L_A_R_G]

"Guitar Hero Drums are BROKEN" _Well that's what happens when you rip off a feature from your ex-business partner and hastily add it to your own franchise purely out of spite_ 😏

[@lewisgrant7622]

No. Cause they were the most cheap and loudest thing I’d ever played

[@eduardocordova12345]

Posible convert & recreate Fortnite Festival Sterms & Charts for Rock Band 3 Deluxe, Clone Hero, YARG or Guitar Hero Definitive Edition.

[@Whiteythereaper]

It's possible but Harmonix have asked the community to not use charts from Rock Band 4 or Fortnite Festival. That's why Rhythmverse links you to buy the RB4 songs on Xbox before letting you download them and why Chorus Encore is missing a tonne of them from the original Chorus site. EA and now Epic are aggressively chasing the YARG/CH community to try and make them come back to the Official™️ Licenced games

[@eduardocordova12345]

I Wish Freezing Moon by Mayhem in Rock Band 3 Deluxe, YARG, Clone Hero or Guitar Hero Definitive Edition but Fix Charts.

[@derpymcderpster5526]

My dude, you're acting as if this wasn't already a known flaw in the series. (Then again, I have ZERO experience with Drums on GH because I refuse to touch the dogshit drumkit, and I don't like GH's general UI.) EDIT: This was meant to be a joke. My bad

[@JSanchez97]

I think same way, but with RB franchise. Specially with RB guitars. I had one once, worst buy ever.

[@jnackmclain]

I for one didnt know anything the video was highlighting, so I appreciate the collection of information i can digest without the years of arcane knowledge

[@760creations]

People knew they were broken, but not *why* they were broken. I don't see how your comment adds value here.

[@acai28]

why make this comment lmao

[@derpymcderpster5526]

@@acai28 cause it's fun to be annoying. 🤣 (jk) Also damn, I was not expecting to get a response from you.