Gundam Seed Destiny - Logos and Destiny Plan (P2)

After eliminating Logos and the influence the capitalists and businesses have over world politics, Chairman Gilbert Dullindal of PLANT, an intellectual and idealist, sheds light onto his comprehensive ideas and plan to create a rational society to "liberate individuals from their desires" and to allow humans to maximize their potentialities through genetic determinism. Unfortunately, Dullindal becomes heavily ideological in pursuing his plan to save humanity from conflict and inefficiency, coming to define all who oppose his plan as an "enemy of humanity". He utilizes the ZAFT military to eliminate all potential threats and effectively kills many people in the final war to supposedly end all wars. Although the plan has a strong populist appeal, the negative consequences are that individuals would lose individuality and self-determinism and Chairman Dullindal would likely remain a powerful political figure in the new social order.

[@user-eo9xw9ry6m]

演説とシンクロしてBGMがだんだんヒートアップしてくの好き

[@user-fr4py9mf3m]

アムロ「そうやって貴様は平気他人を見下すことしか出来ないんだっ！！」

[@hk-fl3yp]

ここまで恐ろしい考えを作り出せるこの作品の制作陣の凄さよ

[@user-kz5pe9sg9m]

コレの明るい側面が惑星サマーン，コレの闇の側面が管理国家ラビリンスではないだろうか?

[@user-vd2hz8ft5t]

デスティニープランが強制ではなく参考だったら導入しても良いと思う。自分の才能を見つける事ができない人間が無数にいると思うし

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

このごろ考えているんだが、 ヒトの遺伝子から "虚栄心の発露" の因子を削除してしまえば、案外いけるんじゃないかと思う。 争いごとの目的はほとんど、虚栄心の充足にあるから。

[@rnbqw057]

まさに独裁政治そのもの。 遺伝子による支配で、結局は価値観の押しつけと同じ。 でも「いつになっても克服できない我ら自身の無知と欲望だという事を…」の所、 確かに共感出来るわ。これこそまさに人間の本質。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

『ニンジャスレイヤー』には "ウナギにドジョウを一匹混ぜる者あり。 ならばウナギにはかえって手を抜くべからず" ということわざが出てくる。 "嘘をつくときは現実味と説得力を持たせなければならない"という意味で､この場合突飛かつ理不尽で到底受け入れる事の出来ない大風呂敷な政策の押し付けでも､さも人々が普遍的に共感出来そうな理屈を織り込むことで､支持を得るのである。

[@WorldHistoryDoc]

That's why the conflicts will always exists because of human greedy, we need a world where peace and future are asured no matter what

[@user-nv5eu3zw5l]

小説版ではロゴスが潰れたあとは地球圏は未曾有の経済恐慌になるが議長は予め予測しておりそれをコントロールするためにデスティニープラン導入したみたいね

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

@@user-in4ss1hl9r 小説版も2だね、なんならアニメよりそこらの描写が強い。

[@tarou567]

確かに善悪という価値観とは別に先導者がいなくなったら群衆はこの先どうしたらいいのかっていう恐怖と戦うことになるよね

[@graysophia196]

人は争いをやめらなれない、なら 完全に管理することでしか争いや犯罪を止めることは出来ないだろうな。犯罪分子は生まれる前から排除する。それしかない。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

小難しいけど､カースト制を極端にした、膜翅目の昆虫あるいはハダカデバネズミのごとき "真社会性社会の実現"。 ただ蟻の場合、兵蟻や働き蟻などの役目を与えられない"予備蟻(少し前まではサボり蟻と呼ばれていた)"が必ずいて、役目を持った個体が欠けると､適宜選抜され補充されるという仕組みを持つ事が判明している(群れから予備蟻を取り除くと､群れは一定の個体の役目を解いて予備蟻を作り出すという)。 デスティニープランに"遊び"が無いならば、デュランダル渾身の理想(意趣返し)は遠からず破綻するに違い無い。 人間を"退化"させる事が出来れば話は別であろうが！

[@user-kx6rx9xd3n]

勘違いされやすいが職業だけではなくその役割を果たすためにその人間の環境と全て管理するのがこの計画だぞ、趣味だのなんだの言う人いるけどその役割を果たすために必要ないとされればできないし、逆らうのなら社会的にでも淘汰されるのが関の山。キラに対して議長が色々言ってたようにその役割を自覚させるために周りの人間関係も絶対に管理するのは明白なわけだしな。本人の幸福も遺伝子で決めるから今以上に幸福になろうと得ようと努力すればデスティニープランを否定するものとして調整淘汰されるし、社会的に必要ないとされればミーアのように処分されるのも明白。これが本当にいい計画だとでも？人の尊厳全て排除した世界でしかない。

[@くそしてねろ]

SEED destinyの続編がでたとしたら、デュランダルの思想を継ぐものが敵に立ちはだかってほしい。

[@user-ri3be8qc2x]

デュランダルの思想を継ぐもの、ロゴスの残党辺りが出てきそうな気がしますね

[@masaohi8176]

とうとう出てきましたね

[@gunren2052]

本当に出てきて草

[@くそしてねろ]

@@gunren2052ガチやん草

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

大当たりでした

[@warriorking0723]

"And will we crush this new movement toward freedom, sacrificing freedom for order? I say no. Order achieved through force can never be a true peace. There can be no true peace through tyranny" Orion pax(Optimus Prime) Transformers: Exodus Page 96.

[@JimHawkwind03411]

The Destiny Plan in a nutshell: Bad People -> Dead. Everyone else -> JOBS! And Durandal proved his point, even after he died: Both Kira and Lacus became what they tried to avoid doing, a soldier and a politician, respectively.

[@Superhero18]

Chairman Durandal's world is a world we need more than ever, for people to understand who they truly are, the best roles for them to fulfill and to find fulfillment in that. Our endless chase for something that we're not suited for, has resulted in humanity infighting, tears and brutality.

[@thebigred8797]

@@Superhero18 If you live life as a unit and not a person, one can argue no life is not all that different at all. The clash between freedom and security will always be issue, but more importantly it's trading one form of tyranny for another. This plan was awful, but where SEED blundered was not portraying Lacus and Kira as a necessary evil rather than morally right. This is especially heavy handed coming from a setting where naturals would be fed to the dogs that are the superior coordinators, and ultimately this sort of thing would only lead to LOGOS sympathizers and, at absolute best, something like the Clyne faction crushing it. You can force a human to do something with force, but where the Destiny Plan ultimately failed is it had no way to ensure their hearts were in it. The irony that a "perfect" world isn't a world worth living in is, at the very least, not lost on this series.

[@Superhero18]

@@thebigred8797 You've totally misread the plan, and the philosophy behind the plan. Your interpretation is based off agreeing with the Kira/Lacus view. Not the rational side of things. It's not the difference between the collective borg vs the individual. It's whether or not the individual is capable of making the right choice for him or herself. Durandal doesn't think this, and world history proves his point. We THINK we're capable of making that choice, but we've launched wars, droned people, we've enslaved others and we've starved others. In truth, we are the worst possible species at making proper judgments for ourselves. "He lived his life at the mercy of the times." Or better said, at the mercy of what others wanted from him or what he thought he needed to do based on the needs and concerns of the world at large. Kira Yamato who professed he didn't want to be a solder, thought that the only way he could contribute was ultimately through fighting. But that's not true, as the Ultimate Coordinator he has shown the ability to program AI intelligence, he quite possibly could have become a hell of an engineer.(Same thing with Athrun.) The Destiny Plan was meant to pick out these and other characteristics from every individual in-universe and put them in a role where they would excel. The question then is, would their hearts 'be in' a place where they'd excel? Of course, because that's what we yearn for the most. We yearn to succeed, we yearn to be fulfilled in what we're doing, and we're most fulfilled when we're recognized for our achievements and striving in a field that suits our interests, desires, hopes and wishes. All the Destiny Plan does, is bypass all of the trial and error that the human nature is bound to be possessed with, and go straight to the end game goal of emotional fulfillment through realization of our ideals manifested through the perfect plan for us.

[@thebigred8797]

@@Superhero18 No I very much disagree with Kira and Lacus' philosophy, the issue being how Destiny itself portrayed rather than the issue itself. There is no rational side of things because humans are not rational. History does not prove we've unable to make the right choices, because right and wrong are subjective human constructs that do not exist in a void. Rules, like people, change with the times. Law, religion, government all exist as a means to control for us to not harm each other as a means to not exist in a state of law. With this in mind, the idea of the Destiny Plan has already failed because there is no morals to uphold other than the morals of the one calling the shots. The one calling the shots from a space throne with a doom laser pointed as the throats of others. Kira Yamato had a good dozen times to hop off the soldier train. This was his choice, this is what he wanted to do. His sense of self, even if poorly written, defined an entire era of time through his involvement with the Clyne Faction. One could argue he was a better soldier than an engineer, when it was all said and done. Through his own merit he ended up exactly where history needed him to be. No, what the series needed to do was portray Kira and Lacus as the necessary evil of their time in order for humanity to avoid stagnation. Likewise, Lacus was always meant to be a politician. It's more pronounced in the Japanese version but due to how their political system works she has been groomed for it since her birth. The answer to the question is a firm no, however, as to if you'd be content where you excel. The borg mentality is 100% certified because that is where this would end. Greed and desire, in the proper doeses, are motivation. There is no success when you cannot fail, being on a rail you had no say in. There is no recognition because you were born that way, it just happened. It's the view of a man that cannot look forward, only back. I've met many people that are human super computers. They spent their life doing something they were good at and absolutely hated it, instead of finding fulfillment in small things that nobody would ever praise them for. Some? Not even good at it. The Destiny plan is the idea of an emotionally crippled man stuck in the past, one that didn't want to others to experience the human experience due to his own perceptions. In such a world ideals do not exist. You do a thing, you go home. It's over. If this is based on genetics, you may even end up inferior to the worker next to you due to how this is supposed to plan out. Better is not subjective, happiness and morals are. Being good at something doesn't mean that makes you happy. Ultimately the only one proven right in the Cosmic Era was Rau, and if you want humans to stop fighting you remove the human element all together. Otherwise you have a tyrant spouting sweet platitudes on his throne in a position he had to take through power, undermining his own philosophy at it's very core. Men like that not only "justify" LOGOS, but ultimately could lead to the very same end Rau envisioned for all of humanity. Our oldest narratives are about those who have it good, by some standards, but still want more. Without force, without the Genesis and a trained army of goons, humans will not go with something even if it's "good" for them in any context. We are a force of nature much like other things in this world, we don't need to adhere to the logic of those we don't understand, nor don't especially want to, because not even genetic manipulation can repair this "fault" Right and wrong do not exist outside the scope of human thought. One man forcing his idea of what is "right" and what is "wrong" is in no way a Paradise, It's just another form of tyranny resulting in countless deaths of those that disagree. Thinking about it, you've outlined why we're one of the best possible species about making proper judgements for ourselves because we're capable of philosophy and understanding more than law of the jungle. You put it very well, the Destiny plan would ultimately deny the factor that makes us human.

[@Superhero18]

@@thebigred8797 I would argue that we're not capable of understanding philosophy, we're capable of regurgitating it, yes. But have we truly understood it? Have we lived our lives according to our ideals? Subjectively, this lies with each person to person but as far as the general whole, if the goal is peace then we have demonstrably, undoubtedly failed. This is without even considering the gundam seed universe. Now if we acted on our ideals and philosophies, if we guided our lives by a principle you would be right that mankind would be then capable of making the right judgments and could self sustain itself in the future. As of now, the only reason we're still around is that we haven't hit enough fuck up buttons. Like you said, Rau Le Crueset had hit on some very uncomfortable truths(and thus Seed was better than Destiny.) I do not hold that "making choices" and being "able to choose" make us human, anymore than a tiger hunting a fish makes it a tiger. It is a part of our human nature to make decisions, but that doesn't mean we can't adapt to a world where we don't have to make those decisions. You argue that the Destiny Plan would actually essentially create a bunch of spoiled kids, who would sit on their pedestal. I disagree, because everyone would be a 'spoiled kid'. And since everyone is a 'spoiled kid', there's no jealousy or envy. However, if one compares the world where everyone is spoiled compare to the one where few were spoiled, it stands to reason more and more people would adapt the Destiny Plan. Chairman Durandal might not have needed to go as far as he did, he could've simply started implementing it with the Plants and the Earth would look on in envy as the Plants recover from the war quicker than the naturals. This would lead to them demanding to also join the plan.

[@mdz9430]

i honestly think that if Destiny Plan were to exist in our real world. Can you actually imagine how many jobs can he provide for us? Leaving to those who choose to be bad people(Doing real life crimes) won't even get a single job. Thus making it a true peace among each other. Somehow part of me is that This has the potential to lead to true peace even if we lose as individuals but if it comes with a high price, i think its worth to sacrifice and find it out

[@armydude102]

Social credit score will bring prosperity.

[@Zeithri]

There wouldn't people who do bad things in that world because they'd lack ambition to do bad things. And if someone did bad things, they'd probably be silently executed in order to keep the peace and prosperity. Everything sounds convincing when you sit in a cozy chair, in a Fortress surrounded by an army, together with a death ray.

[@PatrickBautista_RR3Gamer]

A world without conflict makes the entire world stagnant. Not just in fiction, but also in real life. Also, you cannot take away mankind's capacity to do evil. As there is a balance between good and evil, and taking one of them out of the equation, ultimately puts the world at risk of becoming stagnant.

[@user-tr5cu3qo9c]

@@PatrickBautista_RR3Gamer There's never been such a thing, so you can't take it for granted.

[@PatrickBautista_RR3Gamer]

​@@user-tr5cu3qo9c the point is that is it really worth it living in a world without conflict and let anyone control your life because they believe that free will allows you to do evil things?

[@AwarenessBringer]

Interesting.

[@monotugi]

0:41 アストレイ「よいしょっよいしょ(-ω-;)」

[@linkganonslayer000]

Honestly, the Destiny Plan is quite the moral dilemma

[@DanteLovesPizza]

It's the ultimate goal of humanity. I personally support this plan fully.

[@Astolfo2001]

@@DanteLovesPizza Nope. I personally think that Kira and Lacus were based. I bet the Destiny Plan is where Klaus Schwab got his inspiration for 'stakeholder capitalism' (aka. socialism with extra steps) from.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@@Astolfo2001 Do you know what socialism is? The Destiny Plan doesn't advocate ownership by the community. It assesses your abilities so that it can be aptly used to the best. I'm missing the part where socialism includes this.

[@Astolfo2001]

@@DanteLovesPizza I am an anarcho-capitalist not a Trump supporter. I see the Destiny Plan as China's Social Credit System but with genes which makes it against the non-aggression principle in my eyes.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@@Astolfo2001 Yeah, that's what rioters say too. "For freedom!" Lol. Actually, the social credit system is just a more extreme version of credit systems that exist in many countries. Nothing like the Destiny Plan at all.

[@dahaproject3498]

soo cool char aznable!

[@linkganonslayer000]

I also one time realized that Durandal's Destiny Plan is alot similar to Mao Zedong's Great Leap Forward

[@Battlecry17]

How so? They seem quite different to me; different emphasis entirely. The Great Leap Forward wasn't based on genetics but a futile attempt at rapid industrialization combined with a suspicion of centralized industrial organization.

[@linkganonslayer000]

@@Battlecry17 still the same basic idea of accelerating humanity's development through authoritarian methodology

[@Astolfo2001]

It's also very similar to the WEF's Great Reset as well.

[@ShadowMoon878]

His speech is also very similar to Char Aznable's speech during Gundam CCA. Same voice actor too

[@Moeflyer6213]

It's more like Hitler's "Germans are Aryans" eugenics theory

[@broden4838]

I agree with his views on LOGOS/Blue Cosmos (which is similar to two groups people don't like in real life), but the Destiny Plan seems like a forced peace to me

[@linkganonslayer000]

yeah; he's like Totalitarian Communist leaders. Similar to the case with the Destiny Plan, the ideology for Communism itself isn't inherently bad nor was it originally intended for malice; it just had some incompatibilities with human nature that were too much for everything in it to be implemented. Particular leaders like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, and Kim basically tried to force the people they governed to be "compatible" with it in its entirety, which was the way Durandal tried to implement his Plan; in other words, saving Humanity at the cost of people's freedom itself. Tsumari, Totalitarian Communism is a more extreme offshoot of Communism itself

[@Jared_Is_Near]

That is quite literally the point of the show lol

[@khaniswirayudhanataraharja1362]

Well, Freedom without control can be dangerous afterall, for example: all crimes that Humanity have commited from time to time

[@Battlecry17]

@@linkganonslayer000 He isn't like "totalitarian Communist leaders" at all, especially since you completely misrepresent what 20th century "Communist" leaders were trying to achieve. For one, none of them tried to create communism as a society - that was something that was seen to emerge at some point in the far future. Their focus was on industrializing their countries, fighting off what they saw was "imperialism" through united fronts, and trying to build socialist economies. Mao was incompetent when it came to economics; Stalin was definitely totalitarian and ruled by fear. But none of them had any grand ambition to "save humanity" or some lofty ideal view of humanity. The socialist states (they actually weren't called "Communist states") were all largely beholden to the Soviet model, which they believed would be a superior industrial system to capitalism and lead to greater productivity. This would technically be the first step on the road to building a socialist economic system (whether they achieved this or not is debatable). Communism itself is simply the natural result of technological progress and automation eliminating the need for most human labor. Humans re-conceptualize "work" to mean their passion projects and hobbies they pursue without any motive to make money - essentially, "play" and "hobbies" define a person's existence.

[@Priinsu]

@@Battlecry17 I take you're a lefty, what flavor of leftist are you? And, how would you structure a pure-socialist economy that works better than capitalism?

[@linkganonslayer000]

Rules set up by strict parents/teachers in a nutshell

[@DanteLovesPizza]

Or a world where no one has to suffer any more.

[@RX-iv5ne]

まるで、、、どこぞのアイナハムエレクトロニクス社を言っているようだ、、、

[@user-sd8sk4ee7x]

Gジェネレーションクロスレイズの闘いは始まる

[@georgemercer402]

I was cool with him exposing LOGOS as warmongers, but his destiny plan was a turn-off to me; he might've also known that LOGOS was also the primary benefactor for Blue Cosmos

[@travisjohnson4732]

He has a god complex, achieving peace by way of technological determinism is insane.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

He just knew what the ultimate goal of humanity was. By putting everyone in place of what they do best, it achieves maximum efficiency, and only through that does everyone essentially get what they want. Everyone wants more, but not everyone has everything they want/need, which is why people compete for it. Then isn't it humanity's ultimate goal for everyone to have everything they want? When you have everything you want, you no longer want more. That's what Durandal is trying to create; a world without conflict.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@Travis Johnson Hold on a second. What is "humanity's goal" as a whole? Unless you're saying the goal of humanity is to see people suffer, then the Destiny Plan is basically achieving the goal by skipping the suffering process of it. The average human wants peace and prosperity, that's what people are working towards; a better life. The Destiny Plan is a fast access to that goal without the struggling that the normal process forces you into. We are "caged" anyway. Do you honestly think you have absolute freedom? The law that you abide by, the morals society set, these are all barriers that cage you. To quote Billy Katigiri from 00, "Complete freedom is the abandonment of morality... ...and that only leads to destruction. Within any ordered social structure, the people enjoy a limited form of freedom. It's far better to be inside a cage where you are protected. That is what we all call peace." If you think we are living in absolute freedom, you're delusional, because this is limited freedom anyway, and it's the "cage" you describe, only to a different degree. Sure, the Destiny Plan is a more restrictive cage in some senses, but it is free from suffering. The current cage we live in now, as I quoted, about 70% are living in poverty, so it is filled with suffering. To say it is better for 70% of humanity to suffer for the sake of your comfort and sense of "freedom" is naught more than arrogance and pride, which again, comes from the fact that people in comfort are afraid to lose what they have, in which "above" others is one of them, and refuse to accept a world where even being one of the worst in a world of prosperity is actually better than being one of the best in the current world.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@Travis Johnson Again, you mention that the Destiny Plan aims to cage "desires in hopes of creating a peaceful world" but I ask again, if that is the ultimate goal of humanity and the Destiny Plan offers it, isn't what you're saying contradictory? In what hand, you're saying it is the ultimate hope of humans, but when presented with it, you say you're against it. Is it the only way? Yes. What other way do you suggest? Look at how many forms of governmental forms the world has seen. Not one is close to offering zero suffering like the Destiny Plan. Kings and Queens, Emperors, Imperialism, Communism, Socialism, Democracy, Anarchy, Fascism, and all kinds of different structures and ideas. Every single one is subject to human corruption. The Destiny Plan removes that. If you were born a fool, you stay a fool and you do a fool's role. Look at the people surrounding us, do you think it's fair that people born into wealth and power sit on top of everyone else despite being absolute idiots? Humans were not born equal, and it should be by ability that determines their stature, not how much wealth or power they were born into, which is how the current world operates. Funny how you bring it's like caging animals, and you're right, it is for their own good in many instances. Look at your average domestic pets like cats and dogs. If humanity no longer cages them, they will become extinct in a matter of years because they aren't able to survive like that. Similarly, humanity is walking toward the path of destruction and without limitation, will end up in extinction as well. Sure, humans going extinct is better for Earth, but is it better for humans? And we're going in circles, "live the best lives they want" and that is what the Destiny Plan does. It's to make the most number of humans live with the most desired circumstances. Yes, the distribution isn't going to be the same, but it's for as many people as possible. Under current establishments, only those born into favourable circumstances can do that, while 70% of the people have to suffer for that. You honestly think this is better than the Destiny Plan that will put most people into a favourable position and most likely only imbeciles won't be in "their most desired lives" which will actually still be better than the poverty situations 70% of the people are living in right now? It doesn't matter about their inner greed at that point. It's like Athrun and Kira discussed, there's no point trying to rebel against it because nothing will change. When people understand that under the Destiny Plan, everything is the most efficient, who would back these people up and support them? No one. People rise up and rebel against authorities in hope of improving the situation. When the Destiny Plan offers the best situation, meaning any change will only make things worse, no one will try to act against it in order to put themselves in a worse position. And you're forgetting a key factor. With the Destiny Plan, superior genetics means superior status. People in a superior position will understand this is for the best and won't work against it. People at the bottom are at the bottom because they don't have the capability to fight against it. If they were clever enough to be able to fight against it, then they would be clever enough to understand the Destiny Plan has already created the most efficient outcome, therefore understand there is no point trying to change it. If they don't have that level of intellect, then they won't have the intellect needed to go against the Destiny Plan in the first place. Not sure if you've watched an anime called Psycho Pass, but the Sybil System in it that determines what people can do is effectively the same as the Destiny Plan. Now, I'm not supportive of that system, due to many issues with execution, but the idea that genetics and capability determines where you stand in society is nicely illustrated and thoroughly depicts that people at the bottom won't try to rebel against the system regardless of the circumstances because they aren't capable of doing so.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@Travis Johnson "you seem content in keeping individual humans from progressing from their experiences in life and ultimately becoming a better person" and by going against the Destiny Plan, you seem content in preventing talented individuals help other people, and perhaps the world, while letting idiots rule over us. "It's a fool's error to take the sovereign will of the individual right to enlighten and better themselves" These kind of comments come from the arrogance of being in a favourable position. You think those in poverty chose to be in poverty to better themselves? No, they were forced into it, and in a much more brutal way than Durandal's proposal. All this time, you're trying to argue that "choice" should prevail above all else, but tell me, what real choice does the average human have? The vast majority of the population are in poverty, did they have a choice in that? No, they were born and forced into it. It's no better than being born with weak genes and put into a lower position. If you were earning £0.02/$0.02/€0.02 a day like those in extreme poverty, but you were born with superior intellect, would you think the same as you do now? You keep commenting that genetic determinism forcing people into a role is bad, but that is literally saying that the current system, stature forcing people into a role is better. Those born in poverty don't have a chance to improve either, and what's worse is, they know for their future generations, the same is applied. In the Destiny Plan, sure, due to inheritance, a fools offspring is likely to be a fool, but that isn't absolute. Those born in a lower status have hope that their offspring can rise to the top. The current system? Not a single chance, there's absolutely no hope for that at all. You're literally depriving the choice of 70% of people for your own choice, and you think that's better? That's just arrogance. Even looking at the 30% of the remaining population that are in better positions, what choices do you honestly think you have? The choice to vote? Which is an absolute joke, because it's between two people or parties for most democratic countries, and even in countries where there are more choices, it is still a very limited choice. Is that really a "choice?" The choice of school? Private schools being strictly reserved for the rich and those high in stature, and even if you were the most intelligent person, you were forced to blend in with the average and remain undeveloped? The choice of career? Because oh, most people are in the job they desire and love their jobs? It's a facade, a false sense of "choice" that you speak of. If the Destiny Plan is genetic determinism, then the current world is money determinism. In such a scenario, I would much rather choose genetic determinism, and that's a choice I will always favour, because at the very least, I know I'm being led by intellectuals. Money determinism as it currently is, look at your most powerful world leaders right now, we're being led by fools. Would you rather be led by fools that were simply born into power? Well, maybe you would.

[@DanteLovesPizza]

​@Travis Johnson So what you're saying is, it's OK to enslave 70% of the population for you to not feel enslaved to your genes. I figured you didn't care about others from your argument. It's the exact attitude that forms what the world is today and what prevents peace. "I don't care about others, and if I want to bomb others, who cares? I'm not the one dying." Precisely this attitude is what needs to be weeded out of the world with the Destiny Plan. Under current circumstances, people can't have dreams and it's society to blame for. If you were born with inferior genetics, then you've only got yourself to blame for. You only see the suffering others and lack the compassion to understand that under the Destiny Plan, no one will endure suffering like we have today. Put yourself in a situation for a moment, and just put it simply. Imagine you had diabetes and had to get both legs amputated, would you rather that happen, or know that under the Destiny Plan, more capable medical advancements would've been achieved due to the right people being in the right role, therefore you would have avoid amputation? Or the people you cherish most need a surgery, but the survival rate is low and as a result they died, because of incompetence, whereas in the Destiny Plan, the best possible doctor would have been available, and they would have survived, would you still object against the Destiny Plan so much? You keep talking about "self interest" and is the well being of yourself and your cherished members not part of it? You are literally contradicting yourself again. By not supporting the best available option for yourself and your cherished members, how is that "self interest?" And sure, everyone wants the most, but you're literally saying as long as you prosper, you don't care that others have to suffer for it. Fortunately, I'm not like that.

[@user-jf9tf6pe1n]

何故こんなことになってしまったのか！？全てを裏で操っていた男が何を言うのか。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

政治の本質はフィクションだ 政治は演劇とおなじ 国家が組織的におこなうショーなのだ 小さな嘘はすぐばれるが 大きな嘘は真実になる 巨大な虚偽を創造する巨大な装置 それが国家なのだ 大衆どもに壮大な夢を 見させてやるのがわれわれの務め 国家はそのための 造夢装置なのだ 『紺碧の艦隊』より

[@user-jf9tf6pe1n]

@@user-wo9om2ec4v 其れを言ったら身も蓋もないと思うけど、正論故に反論も出ない。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

@@user-jf9tf6pe1n まぁ今のロシアとウクライナの事などを見れば、よくお分かりいただけると思います

[@user-gw4zs8jr9t]

池田さんの声が出てくるとは

[@user-si9lq7lc9f]

いつになっても無くならない戦争

[@freedomman5634]

これまでの戦争は全て この為の土台作りって事か？

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

ユニウスセブン のことを知ってて放置したり、デストロイやレクイエムのことを知っても無視してなんなら利用するからな。最後はロゴスを倒すことで地球の経済ズタズタにしてもう疲れたよね、この計画で大丈夫だからと言うそこそこ鬼畜なことをやってる。ただ全てを仕組んでるわけではないし、こうなればいいなぁと思ってそれを上手く行く方には手伝うけど。 レクイエムで言えば本来目標のプラントに当たってくれれば本人的には万々歳だったらしいしな、評議会の人たちが死ぬしで。イザークたちのおかげであれってなったけど。

[@user-sd8sk4ee7x]

リボンズアルマークとギルバートデュランダル

[@user-ur2dr6uk2b]

遺伝子で生き方を決めるって、何らかの原因で死んだりプランを拒む人居たら終わりじゃない？

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

ゆうそるす プランを拒むものは淘汰したりするからね。だからこそのレクイエムやジェネシスだし。

[@user-nv5eu3zw5l]

プランを拒んだらロゴスの残党扱いされてレクイエムやネオジェネシスで逆らった国を攻撃される。

[@tarou567]

拒む人を従わせる方法として　短期の視点においては、兵器で従わせるのが一番早い 長期的視点においてはプランの優位性を証明して入らないと他より劣った生き方しかできませんよ って状況を作る　コミュニティ全員をコーディネーターみたいな状況にし、疎外感を与え　自発的に入らせるみたいな流れを作る 人は滅法こういうやり方には弱い

[@user-gi8cr3]

@@tarou567 今のワクチン推進派、反対派みたいな感じだね。まずはコロナ(兵器)の恐怖でワクチン打たせて、ワクチンパスポートがあればイベントや旅行にも行けるという優位性をチラつかせて、ワクチン打っていない人には疎外感を与え、自発的に打たせるため、政府やメディアは情報操作する。

[@sitek3147]

なんかさらっと映ってたけど、アストレイのフレーム強度とパワーどうなってんだ？二機で軽々とビルのかなりでかい残骸を、しかも腕で運んでるんだが。マニピュレータが保たんだろこんなの

[@user-uw6el2ki7i]

パワドーレッドかな？ロウが作った新型のパワシリンダー使ってるから、その辺MSと比較にならない位のパワーだからね フェイズシフト装甲を腕で貫通しても破損しないからなぁw

[@user-ce2xb3nh4o]

遺伝子情報で適正を決める 実際に存在する、日本でも

[@user-yt1uw8ue5l]

なぜこんなことになってしまったのか？ お前が振られたからだよ・・・

[@seabook8105]

Voice of Char

[@ShadowMoon878]

Mu La Flaga is the voice of DIO Brando...

[@HeIsAnAli]

Talia Gladys is Kycilia Zabi.

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

ニーチェのいう人という存在についてのことを全否定した計画よな。より強くより先へは人の生きていく力としてるし。

[@EX_DELTA]

だがニーチェも大衆の事を畜群と呼んでいたし、この計画にきっと賛成してくれると思うけどな

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

@@EX_DELTA しないと思うぞ、人そのものの存在全否定する計画だからな。生まれ持った全てで幸せも立場も人間関係も決めちまおうぜなんていう碌でもない計画なんで。

[@steel2bonez]

MPGA - Make PLANT Great Again

[@ericcaulfield4477]

Donald Trump would be working for Blue Cosmos though. lol

[@Astolfo2001]

PLANTs/ZAFT = Auth-Left Blue Cosmos and Earth Alliance = Auth-Right ORB and Terminal/Three Ships Alliance = Lib-Right

[@user-rn7vg4nv5i]

逆シャアのシャアの演説みたいや

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

全然違う、方向性で言えばフル・フロンタルに近いしこいつ。可能性全否定するところなんてまさにそう。

[@Wolfboy183]

DURANDAL 2024

[@user-jv7xi3jn8t]

これが後の米堕卿となるwww

[@Sampoldik]

v2013 ep46 v2004 ep47 ~18min

[@PrimusProductions]

Durandal did nothing wrong.

[@thegooseman90]

Space Bernie Sanders.

[@StraightEdgeSieghart]

He's Emperor Palpatine

[@zerox8413]

He's Gundam version of Ingram Prisken (considering Durandal had good intentions but his choice of decision kinda messed kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2LTopqreaaWkMU

[@linkganonslayer000]

He's more like Stalin or any other Totalitarian Communist leader

[@thomasedwards6641]

He sent an assassination squad after Lacus

[@user-np4rt1ml8q]

シャアが言ってても違和感ない演説

[@user-kx6rx9xd3n]

最後まで人類に希望は少なからず持ってたシャアとはまるで別。むしろフロンタルやろ、演技も含めて。

[@user-ui5lg6ff8d]

自分の不幸を他人に押し付けんのもアカン。

[@Eba-chan_mechanism]

ガンダムワールドのシビュラシステム

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

@@pine1784 にて非なるもの。シビュラは選択肢を与えてるし、おすすめ程度にしてるだけやからな。 デスティニープランは間違った道を歩むことがあるのなら最初から道を一つにすりゃいいって言う極端路線。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

これの最悪が『新世界より』の世界、または『旭日の艦隊』の"人類家畜化計画"と"神人創造計画"。

[@user-rp3jo3qs1q]

@@user-gd8wv3em9y シビュラの場合、犯罪者の脳が使われてる事実は伏せていたけど、何十年もかけて何段階もふんでるシステムなので、システムの在り方が違い過ぎますね。それも、試験運用から70年ぐらいたってからやっと他国へ輸入してるので、それまでは、ずっと国内だけのシステムだったということですし。

[@primusvsunicron1]

Char...

[@AwarenessBringer]

+PrimusVsUnicron I don't about that. Char's speech from his counterattack sounds more fierce to me with his score at the time than this one. Not that it isn't bad. Maybe it's just my preference for the English language talking.

[@missrubymoon]

Soundtrack name?

[@linkganonslayer000]

Shuumatsu no Anji

[@missrubymoon]

@@linkganonslayer000 thanks!

[@linkganonslayer000]

@@missrubymoon NP

[@user-kr4pr2rd3y]

人間は愚かで身勝手だから、管理するしかないんじゃない。

[@user-kx6rx9xd3n]

人が人として生きる世界で平和にするのが大事なのであって人として生きられない世界で戦争無くしたってそれ以前の問題なんよ。人は人として生きてこその存在な訳で。 役割を果たすためだけに生きて人が幸せになれないのは本編や映画で見せてたし。本編でミーアのように死ぬか、シンのように精神ズタボロになって幻覚見えるほどになるかの末路が来るからね。そして自分が今以上に幸せになろうとすればお前の幸せは今のレベルだからダメって言われ淘汰されるだけだからな。努力の許されない世界なんて論外やろ。

[@talos1279]

End of war is one thing but the nation which benefits and stands on top of everyone is only PLANT. Since PLANT is the nation of coordinators, from the view of genetics, they are already far superior to everyone else. The foundation of war in CE is due to racism ideaology that coordinators are far too superior and successful to naturals that it becomes unfair for everyone. Destiny plan basically forces everyone to become coordinators in the next generation because to have a good life, you need to satisfy certain criteria in your genes, and that can only be achieved through gene modification (aka becoming coordinator). The Destiny plan can end war (assumed) but it will create a pyramid structure with strict restrictions and a caste system. The ones who are on top are basically Coordinators who are proficient in politics and making decisions, and that may only be limited to Durandal's family tree. Since he is the scientist, he will make make adjustment to his future children to ensure that they have the best and most suitable genes to be the leaders.

[@user-ve8iv9lm8x]

前後関係忘れたけど Dの意思？だっけか。 色々あるなー。

[@warriorking0723]

"Without freedom, a people can be controlled, but never united". Talandar, StarCraft II legacy of the void.

[@Kira22558]

Yep.

[@user-rx7uq6fu3u]

you wrong people must ne controalled.

[@user-rx7uq6fu3u]

if it'can'be, only need more power to controll

[@warriorking0723]

​@@user-rx7uq6fu3u yeah twisted mass murderers like Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin have used the same argument. I'm not buying it.

[@warriorking0723]

​@@user-rx7uq6fu3uTwisted monsters like Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin have used that same argument. I'm not not buying it.

[@sana_sana2525]

冒頭私も言いそうな事だ

[@thegooseman90]

Space communism

[@jamesevangelista6460]

So Durandal is Bill Gates? Playin with genetics

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

マリュー·ラミアス 「運命こそが彼にとっての"神"なのよ。 彼は"神官"……かしら？」

[@hisakosudou7113]

2005年、結局子供の頃さ、デスティニープランとか言ってたけどさ、一部の日本国民からしたら置き去りしているような政策内容だぞ。　理解出来ない。

[@user-xw1bt2xi8m]

放送当時、デュランダルが言ってる言葉の意味を頭悪いなりに考えてしまいました。そして「こんな計画は人権蹂躙に等しい。あってはならない。人は豚、牛、馬以下になってしまう。もうコレ止めれるのはキラ達しかいない。」と完全にザフトは、シンもルナマリアもレイも悪堕ちしました。完全に。

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

弾間龍二 シンもルナマリアも完全には堕ちてなかったがな。だからこそ精神的な弱さに繋がりアスランにやられたんだし。

[@user-wo9om2ec4v]

@@user-xw1bt2xi8m 牛や馬どころではない､蟻や蜂以下。

[@user-jz7ej4wj7z]

なんか意味のない回想バンクシーンが多いなあ

[@user-gd8wv3em9y]

どこの回想が？全部必要だと思うし、このシーンを描く上では無問題だと思うが。