AH-64 ● Friendly Fire Incident ● Full Video LTC Ralph Hayles Iraq ● Feb 17, 1991 ● Apache Helicopter

[@calk3181]

“I hope it’s enemy” yeah that’s not the best thing to say

[@casso_4974]

When it comes to stuff like that you never EVER say “I hope” you either confirm 110% or don’t do it.

[@rya7642]

Hope he rots in hell. Happy

[@gggromay]

Damn, clearly he just wanted to shoot anything, it was not 100% confirmed enemy and there was no need to rush because there was not an attack in progress or any lives in danger. So shameful

[@rangerjones5531]

Hope is never a good plan -Captain Orvil Windom

[@treffnix4427]

"hope" it's too late. "proof it before"

[@Ryanboy2020]

I was one of the medevac medics that responded to this incident 575th Medevac. The scene was horrible and would go on to haunt me for years. I still cant believe I found this video. Listening to the radio chatter brings me right back to the scene. I went on to tell this story as a cautionary tale everytime I would do a land nav course or 9 line medevac instruction, to demonstrate how easy things can get missed or in the fog of war how much more important is it to verify targets and grid coordinates. 🙏 RIP Extortion 17, Turbine 33

[@jsullivan9238]

Turbine 33... Now that's a callsign that I had put out of my mind. NSDQ

[@stowers157]

Thanks Doc! I can't imagine. I was USMC artillery attached to Army Tiger Brigade. I thank you for being there.

[@Ryanboy2020]

@@stowers157 It was my honor brotha! Thank you, for your service 🙏

[@Cyph3rX]

I hope you found peace bro. Former cav scout here, this video is awful to watch, but comments like yours are silver linings. Thanks for your service, Doc.

[@Ryanboy2020]

@@Cyph3rX Your welcome. It was my honor to serve 🙏

[@microlling3582]

I changed the windshield in the LTC's aircraft the next morning. This was not his only mistake or the first time he refused to follow orders during the deployment. This was just the first time his ignorance and bravado killed anyone directly. He was ordered by the 1st infantry Division Commander not to fly front seat on missions. He said day one of the deployment he wanted the first kill in the 1st Inf Div, and he sure got it. He should apologize to the Soldiers and Officers of 1-1 AVN and the 1st Inf Div because of the shame of this incident. May God forgive him because I never will. Just listen to him try and justify his deadly mistake. He was working off the wrong grid coordinate the entire time because he was not a qualified RL-3 gunner.

[@gingerbill128]

thanks for the info . Sad event that makes me feel angry.

[@matthewishunting]

First off: Wow, thank you for posting. Second: I don't blame you at all brotha

[@jazminesanchez7449]

Man.. so sad.

[@RDC_Autosports]

i’m surprised he never got court marshaled over this

[@microlling3582]

@@RDC_Autosports he was removed from command and allowed to retire. He should have gone to prison.

[@secretsquirrel572]

This was a horrible accident. Being an Apache guy I can tell you the TADS/PNVS on the AH64 has come a long ways. It’s practically impossible to make this same mistake today.

[@JunkDrawer-y6u]

Indeed it was. This was my unit that got hit. I spoke with LTC Hayles by phone in the mid-aughts and he had a lot to add to all of this. The #1 thing to keep in mind is that the radio conversation leading up to this incident lasted about an hour with transcripts to show it. Lots of previously-unheard post-shooting chatter is in this vid, which is cool, but there was a ton of back and forth prior to Hayles being directly ordered (screamed at over the net) to fire. From one perspective, he was scapegoated. From another, Hayles led the mission and he fired, sooooo..... He was the gunner, not the pilot, as many here have mistaken. Comments not directed, specifically, toward you.

[@highflight41]

Glad to hear, and thank you for your service.

[@therealrobinc]

Well, clearly the US Navy didn't get the memo, cos they just shot down their won F/A-18 over the Red Sea on 22 Dec 2024.

[@BudgiePanic]

Strange how the technology itself was seemingly trying to stop this. Gun Jam plus tracking error.

[@Algolxxxxxx]

Man, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Technology conspiring, whispering to fellow technology to stop this? Why didn't technology jam the missiles in the first place? Or did technology have preferences on who to save because some soldiers were nicer to their vehicles than others?

[@BudgiePanic]

@@Algolxxxxxx *seemingly*

[@harveypotts9259]

It may happen more than you think

[@ChristopherGray00]

this was back in the early 90s where the computers weren't that good and the displays were lower quality.

[@CoolSmoovie]

IRs had trouble in dessert environments well into the 2000s because of all the dust just in the air. These guys were basically shooting blind. All they had was their intel and I can’t believe they didn’t know what they were shooting at.

[@jsullivan9238]

"I'm hesitant to pull the trigger" was the first indication that something wasn't right. Gunfighter Six was bloodthirsty when he didn't need to be. A low fast past nearby or simply moving up a Km would have removed all doubt. I could tell even at 3.9Km on VHS tape that the 'Targets' were a Brad and a 113. Easy to say sitting in my armchair. When this happened the entire Army flight community was aware of it within 24 hours. As the old saying goes: Regulations are written in blood. RIP Soldiers.

[@B.V.Luminous]

If its any consolation, I could tell also.

[@GoldPicard]

This was well before I joined the Army Aviation community. Hell, I wouldn't enter the world for a few months yet, but even I could tell the target on the right was an M113 which then leads me to believe that would've been a Bradley or other US/ Allied vehicle next to it and am totally dumbfounded by the lack of target ID because even on a VHS tape that outline looks nothing like a BMP, BRDM, BTR, MTLB, or a T-72. I would like to believe that silhouettes between Soviet& Western armored vehicles would be something that is easily distinguished within a second or two once the image comes into focus, especially to attack aviators who are on the cutting edge working with their OH-58 Bros to spot and ID everything in front of the formation. The fact that the CPG could not IMMEDIATELY ID those targets as friendly is an utter and complete failure on his part and especially as a BC he should've felt totally comfortable telling higher to "standby and let him take a breath and confirm things" before he potentially kills friendlies, the General's pride or whatever be damned, he ain't the one who's guaranteed prison time if he gets this wrong.

[@JuergenGDB]

As a Marine Vet this is disturbing, I remember that day. You can clearly tell the vehicle to the left is a M113, makes you wonder if that LTC could even distinguish Nato vehicles vs Russian, but everything that happened was just a tragedy.

[@zebradun7407]

Don't forget the two Marine AmTracs attacked and killed by that A-10 Lifer.

[@JuergenGDB]

@@zebradun7407 Yes I remember that day as well. Good thing our IFF and video are a lot better today.

[@microlling3582]

and nothing else looks like an M113 and nothing Iraq had sits as high as a Bradly

[@Stevie320]

Yeah even I can tell from the down-rendered video that those were not Iraqi vehicles. Bradley is boxy and tall, 113 is a big flat rectangle. None of the eastern vehicles Iraq would have been using look like that. And this is with the crappy video quality of the release footage. The actual cam would be much clearer.

[@microlling3582]

@@Stevie320 the 3/4 Umatic video sucks.

[@Cyph3rX]

Former cav scout here. This was pretty uncomfortable to watch. From the apache gunner having obvious hesitancy to pull the trigger to the cavalier attitude of higher and being so certain and not accounting for scouts in their AO. Watching those Joe's walking away after getting 2 hellfire missiles and then having them literal moments away from a 30mm execution. I have been in those vehicles and I can vividly imagine those moments from their perspective. When the gunner asks for permission to break off and go home and commander keeps him on station with "these things are going to happen". Yikes 😬. Thats some knuckledragger type of "suck it up" I didn't think aviators dealt with. Overall thank you for this, its riveting and I appreciate it even if I don't love it.

[@ApacheRanch]

Very well said. All the emotions you describe capture it so very well. As an aviator your thoughts about this tragedy are mine as well.

[@Cyph3rX]

@@ApacheRanch Thanks sir. From you, that's high praise. If you're interested, I'm attempting to research former apache aviators and put out an independent work. Do you know any colleagues who wouldn't mind answering a few questions asked from a fellow who has also served? Looking to examine the psychological effects of war, in particular how war from a gunship is conducted in the modern Era and how this effects very sophisticated, well educated, and some of the most driven folks in America. Either way, cheers and god bless!

[@ApacheRanch]

@@Cyph3rX I can connect you up with some folks.

[@matthewdilger6755]

What’s more it’s inexcusable that only the gunner was disciplined and he was the only person there wanting to exercise caution. In my opinion, I don’t see how he had a choice to not fire or how he could be held solely responsible for the mistake.

[@Cyph3rX]

@@ApacheRanch Do you have a website or a contact method I could utilize to network with you?

[@-NOCAP-]

Man he felt it in his gut. He didn't wanna pull that trigger, u can tell by how many times he asked. That will do a lot of damage that somebody's mental state.

[@sint5990]

It was so shocking to hear his pilot dismiss all of his concerns and even sounding annoyed at his concern they were possible friendly.

[@xostler]

The second guy “I killed some people here” and just the realization and regret in his voice. Holy shit war is hell. All this bravado and contention for what? Killing people and watching people get killed then having it haunt you for life.

[@LegiamasC-OnTwitta]

@@xostler pretty much. Vet stories that involve killing people that I’ve heard are almost never “I’m fighting for my country” or “I killed the enemy” it’s always“I’m fighting to survive” “what if I died” “this guy will never see his family again” Im sure many soldiers who see combat and catch bodies can take it well afterwards, but so many eager to kill young men go out and come back shells of themselves after

[@cassandrabrothers3181]

They didn't know if it was friendly and they had a job to do. They asked to return and were denied

[@D64nz]

@@cassandrabrothers3181 The first part of that job is ALWAYS to correctly identify the target.

[@AR15andGOD]

Being anti war is not the takeaway at all.

[@WirableCrown1]

Seeing the soldiers approach and try to recover people in the first vehicle was heartbreaking, especially when they got hit next.

[@jogreeen]

😅🤣😂

[@leoortiiiz]

@@jogreeen ?

[@THICCBOITHENASUSMAIN]

yet when you do this on brown people you feel no remorse lol hypocrites trying to differentiate human beings

[@ancientjavalin]

@@jogreeendisrespectful and disgusting

[@geniocristo5297]

😂

[@epluribusunum8426]

Even the guns tried saying no. So sad. Rip.

[@pjg_77]

He jammed them on the original FF target

[@fe3613]

Exactly, it was chilling to see moments where things "just happened" to go wrong and stall things. I'm not a believer but it's sure chilling.

[@jace3728]

Silver lining the gun jamming saved more lives

[@digisuboob]

"go ahead take em out" - how do you say that without having any idea, the guy who pulled the trigger sounds like he was dubious and was pressured into it.

[@cherrythegoat]

You make it sound like it was out of spite.

[@tiltil9442]

@@cherrythegoat Frankly, he does not make it sound like that.

[@Jimmysage3273]

He confirmed the targets multiple times it does sound like he was unsure but ground or whoever that was reassured him it was enemy. This is the fault of multiple people.

[@kraziphilli1]

I always carried an IR strobe, this strobe can be picked up by night vision and by the flir system on helicopters. 18D Iraq/Afghanistan.

[@howardwilliams8181]

I agree 100%..and I would also add... always carry two types of IR Strobe lights..one for your helmet... I recommend the SDU-5/E Distress Marker Strobe light..and for your torso the Element EX079 VIP IR LED Strobe Light (Navy Seals Version)

[@sideering370]

There's a problem with those strobes though. If the friendlies can see them so can the enemies.

[@Cyph3rX]

@@sideering370 It was a long war. They didn't have night fight capability until probably 10 years into GWOT. Today, I would leave them off the kit unless you know the callsign and duration of your friendly air support in the civi world otherwise go by unit SOP😉

[@timmys8823]

Bro this is in 1991 didn't have that shit back then or at least no troops other than special forces started to use them at that time

[@themalhama9129]

In that year thats not really a peice of equipment the average foot soldier would have access to.

[@12733s]

when there is literally empty desert for miles and miles and you have a friendly formation within sight of the supposed "hostiles" man there is some critical thinking lacking here from both the gunner and pilot

[@yuki1zz668]

well if you put your self in the gunners shoes you can see a whole other scenerio. To start off he said multiple times he didnt want to pull the trigger and asked for more clarification. If he didnt pull the trigger and they turned out to be actual enemies and killed a bunch of youre own borthers in arms for not pulling the trigger that would be a disaster. All around a very sad thing to happen. Its kinda like a lose lose scenario just because they werent sure who they were from the get go and decided to shoot. I would like to imagine that now a days with new technology more soldiers dont have to suffer the same fate.

[@azonicrider32]

@@yuki1zz668 You can make any excuse you want. Huge flat open desert with no enemies in site and a clear formation of mobilized units. There is no feasible explanation for 2 enemy units to be able to cross this huge stretch unnoticed, nor any reason it would be stationary within firing range of other units. The apache had the best view of the situation and should have re-laid information more accurately when confirming target.

[@tobybeggs8676]

Well yes, but command plays a major role in this incident too, they are responsible for confirming the target by checking if they have any friendlies reported in that grid…

[@ronnie_5150]

LTC Ralph Hayles was relieved of his command after this, and rightfully so. Violating orders, 2 killed, 6 wounded. As well, in this disaster, Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf himself was outraged, and called this an "Excessive use of firepower". The group unleashed more than 75+ Hellfire missiles on what were basically soft targets costing about 5 million dollars.

[@justaguynamedmax8207]

@@realWARPIG he means the apache group during the entirety of the operation, not just this single incident with the greater operation.

[@Dannyedelman4231]

The whole squadron was relieved by another national guard unit

[@jhanks2012]

happens all the time, unfortunately. if you return with just as many missiles as you left with, you don't get any new missiles. if you use all your missiles, you get new missiles, at no cost (to you)

[@brucebanner52]

lol no. Hellfires are held in a 4 pylon setup on either wing. A theoretical maximum of 8. Three Apaches deployed, 8 max = 24. No one is firing 75 hellfires here but no one is correcting your ridiculous exaggeration.

[@randyjohnson3654]

@@brucebanner52 you can load all 4 pylons with hellfires for 16 on one Apache, that’s how they started desert storm.

[@robdugas9455]

This is absolutely heartbreaking brought me to tears. May they Rest In Peace. The men in the heli will never forgive themselves I know I couldn’t if I was in their shoes.

[@Alltypz]

2AD HHC 1/41 Mech. Inf. 19 Delta Scout plt. Forever honoring Talley & Middleton. I joined this Plt after Desert Storm ended.

[@patrikcarga]

True, like the fact is they were doing their job and were unable to know

[@HthePro1]

this Buds for you

[@eyecanon1ywin5]

@@patrikcarga cope

[@skipintroux4444]

I’m still more disturbed by the deliberate attempt by Israel to sink the USS Liberty when the Israeli pilots knew it was a US ship.

[@rootbeer2696]

5:52. It is very haunting. Watching the whole video it seemed the pilot of the Apache was hesitant to fire because of the fact that it could be friendly. I feel bad for everyone involved, including the people who ordered it and anyone who had to witness the aftermath. R.I.P. to those brave soldiers.

[@Aaron-zu3xn]

can't feel sorry for someone who sat there and joked while blowing people up and didn't even know who he was killing

[@theaters4242]

@@Aaron-zu3xn wasn’t he ordered to do it tho

[@pyro1047]

IIRC he was ordered by the company commander to not fly front seat on missions, he was a CO and 1ID policy at the time was CO's were not to engage in combat, yet both Apaches were crewed by commanding officers. I've also heard he was a reckless cowboy and wanted to be credited with the divisions first kill. IIRC again, he wasn't even rated to be the gunner.

[@kristian3274]

@@Aaron-zu3xn welcome to war, you dont feel bad for the enemy cuz then you hesitate and that gets u killed. you reflect on it when you get home, not in the field, why ya think most service members have a dark sense of humor.

[@KazeHorse]

@@kristian3274 hope this lot reflected hard in Leavenworth with no parole.

[@ssnydess6787]

As an Apache retired pilot, this breaks my heart and what every Apache pilot would die before hurting a friendly...

[@ApacheRanch]

Agreed. Just horrible all around.

[@scottmattern482]

Do you think these type of weapons make it too easy to decide to take someone's life? Are you removed far enough that it doesn't feel like you killed humans? I know the "correct" answer, but what does it really feel like? It can't be the same as a guy on the ground looking at the wounds and the faces of the people killed, right?

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

@@scottmattern482What a good question, though I cannot provide you with an answer

[@ballzsandwich]

@@JimBobJoeB0bobviously wasn’t for you

[@buttyboy100]

@@scottmattern482 It seems to be no more serious, to the people responsible, than playing a computer game. My dad served in WW2, not with the Americans. He always said that the US had all the gear, but no idea. Incidents like this bear that out. The leopard never changes its' spots. I blame Hollywood🤣🤣🤣

[@iamnotpaulavery]

I remember seeing this on TV. I don't think they released this cockpit video right away. I believe it was after the war ended that the we were able to see this. This has to be something that will haunt these guys for the rest of their lives.

[@KutWrite]

At least the gunner. The pilot kept bringing him back to acquiring new targets. Though maybe that was his way of dealing with it at the moment.

[@mineman2142]

as it should, confirm your targets before firing.

[@MACRONOne]

remember that as well was 10 at the time, greetings from the Netherlands!

[@CoercedJab]

Imagine how much else you haven’t seen Surely you’ve at least seen the other helicopter footage of murdering innocents

[@NotMyRealNameBro]

After telling him he hit friendly vehicles the atc said roger I got another place for you to hit. Than he asked to go home and the guy responded negative those things are going to happen. Holy shit I can’t imagine what the pilot was feeling

[@joshlanier8567]

Can you give me a time stamp?

[@Ken.-]

@@joshlanier8567 13:05

[@joshlanier8567]

@@Ken.- I found it after the fact I have extremely bad ADHD and have zero patience sometimes lol. but thanks man you are the real MVP. it's such a sad sad situation I hope this pilot and gunner has their heads in the right place today

[@NekomiyaTH]

War still going on so they got to fly untill out of munitions or fuel.....

[@lebojay]

Yeah I heard it. “Negative, these things are gonna happen.”

[@rieksstevens]

the whole conversation from the start sums up to being friendly , Bradley not looking at it while being very close . this is a failure worthy of jail time .

[@120mmsmoothbore2]

If a Bradley isn't spotting two "BMPs" or "BTRs" on open desert ground, in the same grid, they're not enemy.

[@ackerkartoffel8627]

Why would you put someone in jail that's contraproductive for all parties

[@AgniFirePunch]

@@ackerkartoffel8627 because they murdered people with their gross incompetence not to mention they weren't even supposed to be flying

[@user-wn2ho5ij5f]

@@ackerkartoffel8627 because this incident happened because of gross negligence... they literally admit over radio they're not sure if it's an enemy or not...

[@Misdirecting]

I just don't understand how you can make this kind of mistake at this level. You are obviously shooting at a target that you are not 100 percent are enemies. Just makes me sick. I bet nobody was responsible either.

[@pyro1047]

I heard one of them was a safety officer and got promoted after they got back.

[@sgtspring3663]

LTC Ralph Hayles was relived of his command after this according to the commenter "Ronnie"

[@darthtool8131]

American shoot first check later policy, not much has changed since then. wnkers!

[@wakichunu]

@@sgtspring3663 was he the gunner or the guy giving the command to shoot?

[@monkeymayEH]

@@wakichunu he’s the one who TOOK command and ultimately failed

[@BLKnPrd67]

I was in the Gulf with Marine Corps 1/7 in a TOW section and heard about this FF incident. It really shook us up because we had a few close calls.

[@spins321]

Semper and thank you for your service! Were your close calls by air or arty?

[@jcogs9440]

The LTC should be in prison. Gross negligence and overwhelming incompetence. No excuses.

[@eddieBoxer]

Forced retirement with full benefits B.S.

[@ENGW1SH]

3800 m (more than 2 miles) is a long way off to accurately ID any vehicle positively, and he had NO IDEA what kind of vehicles he was shooting at.

[@Backs4more]

Which is exactly why the shot should not have been taken.

[@TK_FHW]

Yet they identified the Bradley, and there was no engagement between the vics. It's should be obvious

[@andrewcharlton4053]

@@TK_FHW it's also clearly not a BMP etc

[@theimmortal4718]

Yeah many weapons have a much greater effective range than their ability to positive ID targets

[@MyLonewolf25]

I can tell even on that shitty VHS tape those were American vehicles

[@killdozer3464]

if you watch the whole video, you will hear numerous times the air crew kept incorrectly misstating their orientation or the orientation of the ground vehicles in relation to their location. E/W over and over.

[@FN_FAL_4_ever]

Even sadder case of friendly fire happened in 1994 when two USAF F-15s shot down two Us Army Blackhawks misidentified as Iraqi Mi-24 Hinds, killing all 26 aboard both helicopters…..not to lessen the tragic consequences of what happened during this incident in Desert Storm, all friendly fire incidents are tragic. R.I.P. to the soldiers lost in this incident.

[@mikerivers7559]

Lieutenant Laurie Piper was among those killed in that incident. I had the honor of knowing her, talking with her many times at Incirlik AB, Turkey. I left in February 1994, and that happened not long after. Her mom wrote a book about the military cover up attempt. RIP Lt. Piper It was an honor to have known you and served with you.

[@nickmaclachlan5178]

That's an even bigger FU with two aircraft that should have had the capability to IFF each other.

[@pyro1047]

@@nickmaclachlan5178 IIRC the Blackhawks were given the wrong code for the TAORs IFF Mode I for over 2 years, multiple AWACS crews had observed this but no one ever brought it up. The Mode II IFF was correct but only the AWACS saw this. The F15s scanned Modes I and IV, got a negative Mode I response cause of the wrong code, then Mode IV malfunctioned resulting in another negative. Then there's the multitude of screwups on behalf of the F15s and AWACS. I'm writing the subsequent wall of text of other issues because I get riled up everytime I remember this incident. And these aren't even all of them. The F15 pilots reviewed the ATO which mentioned Blackhawks would be in the area, but not where or what time, after the incident they claimed Blackhawks never even entered their mind when trying to identify the helicopters. The Blackhawks notified the AWACS of their flight route and destination, which was acknowledged. Then they entered mountainous terrain and were in and out of AWACS coverage, so when the F15s got a radar contact and asked the AWACS they were told it was clear of Friendly's. Then they popped back up on the AWACS IFF as friendly at the time of the incident. The AWACS never mentioned this to the F15s even when they knew the F15s were reporting hostiles in the same area. Some crew would later state "They didn't know helicoptors were their responsibility" even though the ROE tasked them with controlling and monitoring helicopter ops in the TAOR. This is probably because the USAF officers in charge didn't consider Army Blackhawk missions as part of the no fly zone operation and as such never tried to integrate them. Even worse, after the negative IFF the F-15s did a visual fly by and not only missed the big US flags on the external fuel tanks, nose, belly, and side doors, but then the flight lead positively ID'd them as "Tally 2 Hinds". His wingman couldn't tell their identiyy upon his pass but responded "Tally 2" which he claimed just meant 2 helos, but his flight lead took as confirmation they were Hinds. The ROE required them to attempt to verify the nationality in case of an unannounced flight, but instead the flight lead told AWACS they were "engaged" and told his wingman to arm hot. You know what happens next, they each "got one". As another all to familiar story, a later GAO investigation uncovered that a rivalry between F-15 and F-16 pilots likely contributed to the incident. As F16s had scored all the air to air combat kills in Bosnia and Iraq since the end of the gulf War, and the F15s likely acted in haste due to the planned entry of 2 F16s into the area in another 10-15 minutes and going up the chain would've cost them time. As a final insult after doing a fly by of the wreckage the wingman radioed "Stick a fork in 'em, they're done". In typical fashion there was a lot of scapegoating going around, which people claim was to protect the F15 pilots. The wingman did get charged with 26 counts of negligent homicide for allowing and participating in the shoot down of unidentified aircraft, the flight lead was safe because "He was sure they were hostile". Naturally the wingman then changed his testimony to "Oh, actually I was sure they were hostile too" and all charges were dropped. Some people were reprimanded and a few had to change careers, but anyone who was actually charged with something either got acquited or the charges thrown out. With the DoD later refusing to cooperate with a senate investigation.

[@pebo8306]

@@nickmaclachlan5178 They used faulty IFF for weeks,everybody knew it,but nobody gave order to correct it!

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

Hos do you mistake Blackhawks for hinds

[@MRmwr2452]

LTC Hillman (Stalwart 6) was looking for kills for his stats. Months before during gunnery, he shot his 33 brad. All caution was thrown to the wind. These were scouts from HHC 1/41 INF, 2AD (FWD)

[@davidbenc1809]

I was in this platoon and I absolutely love Col Hillman. Where did you get your info?

[@kirknunya4291]

We were 11M in Bradley’s there and although no one talked about being secretly scared all the time we, we were cocky confident that we knew our shit. And then we heard about this incident. Just added something else to be scared of... our own weapons. That’s what happens when your weapons can kill way beyond your ability to identify the target. Situation awareness suddenly became first and foremost in every plan. Scary shit.

[@CarryPotter007]

was about to say having a rocket that can absolutely destroy anything 3 times beyond your visual range is just confusing

[@maniaxe1]

That gun jam is just downright spooky.

[@FPSacramento]

It was literally a sign from a higher power to not shoot those people.

[@Royallz15]

@@FPSacramento where was the sign of those "higher powers" when they were killing innocent people in the middle east? It was just a jam, nothing more nothing less.

[@rangerscorpiorac2383]

@@wallclock4648 The higher power wanted us to nuke Japan

[@lebojay]

@@FPSacramentoThe same higher power that looked the other way while 100,000 other people died? It stepped out from behind its cloud to try to save these guys … and failed?

[@dboko]

@@lebojay if it's a miracle it's god, if it's a tragedy then it's just a tragedy.....

[@TheLucy1151]

Thanks!

[@ApacheRanch]

Many thanks!!

[@flashfire157]

"requesting permission to break station and go home" broke my heart. I can't imagine what that pilot was feeling. Hope he and his family are ok

[@moepizl]

The gunner u mean

[@stuckels]

@@moepizl gunner is also a pilot

[@moepizl]

@@stuckels o word. thought i knew everything. I kno u can fly from both seats but thought it was for redundancy.

[@flashfire157]

@@moepizl don't feel bad, I only know this because I fly the AH64 in DCS lol. (Also the F16 but that's all. My brain can only remember what so many buttons do)

[@stuckels]

@@joynthis bro...

[@jeremywells9019]

When I was a young Private we were sent down the hall from our platoon offices to another platoon Sgt's office. We were told to ask him about the picture on his desk. He removed the paperwork he was filling out and underneath his glass desk cover was a picture of a Bradley opened up like a can of sardines. He was ejected from the turret when an Apache blew it up and survived. Not all of his crew was so fortunate. He told us his story and he was one of the best NCO's I ever met...

[@davidbenc1809]

SFC Miller was in this Bradley

[@devenray4384]

13:22 "Requesting permission to break station and head on home." "Negative remain on station, those things are going to happen."... But it never should have. 30 years ago maybe... lord I hope they never happen again. That's so heartbreaking.

[@swisscheese3094]

This was 31 years ago

[@SHABBA-OVERLOAD]

Welcome to the military.

[@ORDEROFTHEKNIGHTSTEMPLAR13]

They still happen today but get covered up and they tell the family He/She was killed in Action/Combat (KIA)

[@gulskjegg-x]

I served with alpha troop a few clicks away and distinctly remember this radio traffic coming over the net. It was depressing to see the first shots fired for the ground war were friendly fire.

[@CoercedJab]

A testament to the fact we were misled into this war and fighting a literal invisible enemy Imagine what’ll happen when the terrrsts become “domestic”…

[@AR15andGOD]

There were absolutely enemy fighters present

[@papillon3986]

Rest in peace to both sides of those who fight in war. Many people glorify war and idolize it but here you see her true face how ugly and unpredictable war can be what an absolute waste of life. God have mercy on all our souls.

[@Reth_Hard]

Women... Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women but I... I do deny them my essence...

[@Larry-Lobster]

If it were innocent civilians who got gunned down, half these comments would be justifying it rather than lamenting war. At least no innocents were harmed in this situation.

[@TheArchetypes]

Exactly, seeing friendly fire videos and people's reactions, especially the one of the a10 hitting the British convoy, you see the humanity suddenly return to the people in the video but it's all the same whether they're friendly or not. You took a life just the same as you did yesterday or a week ago.

[@starstorm5338]

@Larry what kind of cruel moron would justify that? I highly doubt that many people would try to justify a war crime.

[@jleif7736]

I was there, and don't know a soul who glorified anything that happened there. It's couch dwellers in the protection of their own home who do. We would be on sorties and question all the time why are we here. I remember being involved in a situation, and having to take out a bad guy, and afterwards I questioned my whole existence. I remember asking my buddy who was near me, and said "Imagine if we were in America and some dudes in digis came in Bradleys, with their Rifles out pointed at me, and breached my home, and started making demands. What do you think we would do? PROTECT OUR FAMILY BY ANY MEANS. Going on liveleak and watching the atrocities the bad guys committed against their own people made me sleep slightly better at night knowing why we were there, but all in all, we should have never went. We essentially lost the war on terror as well. We left in the middle of the night, let the Tali's take over Kabul, and then preceded to give them all of our equipment, we gave them apache's, fighter jets, NVG, AR's, Bradley's, SAM's, I mean literally everything, we gave them everything we had as an advantage, and for WHAT? We lost men, they lost men, it was all for none.

[@angry_zergling]

Crazy how many people in the comments were serving in-country when this happened and how many of those were somehow involved, i.e. heard the radio chatter as it was ongoing or were station with people from this unit or even in this unit. Must have had an impact on a lot of service people for all those people who were adjacent to it to end up finding and commenting on this video three decades later.

[@ApacheRanch]

Well said.

[@bartoszbaranowski604]

Google/YT algos. I get vids recomended based on what my friends look at and how often we get together.

[@dr3dnaut38]

It’s not something that just goes away when something like this happens. Especially when it winds up leaving an impact on not only your day to day operations moving forward but the amount of teaching something like this would bring about.

[@juliovaldez4448]

I guess this happened more than once because in 1992 I was told by my gunner who was an e-6 that his Bradley had been hit and he had lost his driver and part of his crew. It really messed him up emotionally. I don’t remember if it was friendly fire or if it was an iraqui tank. It’s been so many years since he confided this story to me.

[@CoercedJab]

Of course it’s happened more than once. More than twice. More than three. Who knows how many? They’ve even blasted civilians in an ambulance like this

[@jasonknights9640]

1994: IRAQ-HUMANITARIAN MISSION One of the worst self-inflicted losses in U.S. military history occurred in April 1994, when F-15 fighters shot down two U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopters in the “no fly” zone over northern Iraq. Twenty-six people were killed, including 15 Americans, military officers from Britain, France and Turkey and five Kurdish workers. 1991. In all, 35 Americans and nine British troops were killed by friendly fire in the Gulf War. The Americans killed represented nearly one-quarter of the total of 148 U.S. combat deaths.

[@vellocet2438]

The US military aknowleges that between 2% - 20% of combat casualties are from FF. So pick a number in that range.

[@Old_Nosey]

Yeah, incident like this occurred with A10s attacking a British convoy, identified them as "Trucks with RPGs" due to the Orange reflectors (Used to identify friendlies) Since the A10 didn't even have optics and had to use binoculars for identifying targets, they strafed the convoy, killing British troops. From what I remember Britain banned A10s flying in their zones after that. Good thing the A10 had an inaccurate gun otherwise more friendlies would of been killed.

[@Old_Nosey]

@@micaheiber1419 modern ones i think got an upgrade to accuracy but i don’t remember fully. It had/has a 12 meter radius of where the rounds could impact, this was enough to miss a target and hit civilians or friendly units. not that it’s easy to have an accurate gun when it’s on a plane but the a10 left a lot to be desired on accuracy

[@80Loke]

The way that guy incite the gunner to shoot is disgusting🤮

[@dannyp204]

I can't even imagine killing a group of friendlies then asking to go home and being told negative..

[@NekomiyaTH]

Lie that already spend all munitions....(but then some enemy might really need to be destroy since still got some rocket left...)

[@Holocaustica]

“Hey, guys, trust me when I say there are no hot targe-oops. We have two people walking…..”

[@dereklucero7832]

This is so effed up on so many levels. RIP to the ground soldiers but I truly think the Apache gunner will live with forever!,

[@keithwebb87]

I was the HHC XO for the 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry and I remember this night like it happened last night. Stalwart Six was my Battalion Commander. This was so sad on so many levels.

[@Laters3]

Respect to you my good sir from the Isle of Man 🇮🇲. I remember this as my cousin was out there fighting to. Respect my good man

[@PepeDeezNutz]

Sorry

[@jstape740]

God damn those men in the 2nd vehicle were just getting out before it was struck . Idk how any of them survived.

[@thedude5-6]

I couldn't imagine the feeling that must have washed over him when he realized his actions led to fratricide

[@angry_zergling]

Yeah - the realization that those little glowing dots you can't even see with your naked eye that you have to feel so detached from up in the air in a cockpit like that were your boys and you just blew them apart with the press of a button and there's no way you can take it back. Always surprised when I see recordings of stuff like this that the person involved doesn't immediately puke...I dunno why but that just strikes me as what would happen when the reality and finality of stuff smacks you hard.

[@nja3224]

I couldn’t watch it all and stopped after the request to break away and return home was denied. This was tough to watch. I hope all involved, directly and indirectly, on both the giving and receiving end, have healed somewhat from this event. Time doesn’t always heal all wound, physical or spiritual.

[@sidv4615]

Something that will definitely haunt those guys forever

[@eriktruchinskas3747]

Some would argue that it was the right thing to do. Instead of letting them go home to sit, and strew, they were kept busy. It may sound really callus but it helps.

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

2 losses in FF is tragic, but at least it didn't kill everyone in the Bradley and 113

[@ronlawrence5021]

I was trained as an armor crewman and made my way up the ranks to Tank Commander. In the early 80's I was trained on the M60A3 tank, then a few years later transitioned over to the M1. I'm not saying we use the same equipment in tanks as they use on the Apache, but the technology is essentially the same. And anyone who has been in both these tanks and have operated the thermal imaging system in them knows there is a world of difference between the two. The thermal imaging system on the older M60A3 was far....and I mean *far*....superior to the units they installed on the original M1. The resolution and contrast were far superior. I heard they eventually upgraded the TIS in subsequent iterations of the M1, but this was exactly the problem we had with it. The TIS on the original M1 simply lacked the resolution to positively identify your targets. And this is the problem the Apache crew had. Good thing the Army saved a few bucks by going with a cheap TIS, huh? And that wasn't the only corner they cut. The M1 was overwhelmingly impressive from the moment you laid eyes on it. Everywhere you looked there were fantastic upgrades. A real "Tanker's Tank". Even in the Commander's Cupola.....a super cool thumb switch you could use toi slew that hard hitting 50 cal around.......except all it would do was traverse left and right. They never hooked up the part of the switch that would allow you to elevate the gun. For that, there was a big red knob you had to hand crank and pull down on to fire. Stupid.

[@jleif7736]

Facts. I see everybody shaming Hayles, and I'm not excusing what he did, I believe he is dumb, and was trigger happy, and wanted to get some KIA's. But man these systems look like straight trash. I could barely tell what those vehicles were, they didn't necessarily look like an enemy unit, but I've seen some jihadi vehicles that people wouldn't even believe existed. The military has always cut corners to save them a little money, and then when something like this happens, the military never faces any consequences. The leaders, and high ups get promoted, while the troops get shunned and their lives ruined.

[@Old_Nosey]

@@jleif7736 The M113 is pretty unique in looks at that point, first time watching this and i knew what it was. Read a comment saying the dude wasnt even trained for the role he was doing and really was just kill hungry, men like him shouldnt be in the position of an Officer, or a helicopter gunner/pilot. They should be Calm, cool and not wanting to kill the first thing they think is a possible enemy.

[@official_alphabet_inc]

@@Old_Nosey So if he was unfit to be an officer AND a Apache gunner, why the hell was he both? If this is true, then there are certainly multiple people above him that needed to face consequences well before him. I think you should actually do some research on this before sharing your viewpoints, instead of just retelling whatever some rando in the comment section is spewing out. Also, before judging this mans ability to distinguish certain military vehicles, consider the differences in how you two were assessing the situation. You were in front of the computer? Or TV? Or a cellphone stuck up in your face? Idk. But I know he was up in the air, in a helicopter, in a sandstorm and heavy winds, in an active war zone, looking at a shitty screen the size of a credit card at an arms length, while not having slept for 30 hours AND the heli's missile detector constantly warning that the enemy is locked on to you. And instead of blowing his brains out in the aftermath of all this, like I probably would've done, he dedicated his time to create a system to prevent exactly this. But the army usually does not include inventions that doesn't help them kill more people in its budget (unless the media's on their ass, like with IEDs). They probably could've eliminated blue on blue down to under 1% of their casualties... if they really wanted to. But instead, this number has been rising over the years.

[@Old_Nosey]

@@official_alphabet_inc Sorry you had me utterly lost at the “Missile detector” Not only is the radar not going to warn you of a missile unless there is one, In this video you clearly hear no one saying they are being locked on (Something you would in fact say), The M113 is distinct and if he was an officer and gunner of any calibre should know if it is NATO or not. How do you know he hadn’t slept for 30 hours? The part of the sandstorm is rubbish, You can clearly see he is using thermals, Do you see any sandstorms blocking his vision of that? Or is it a sandstorm that is only in his cockpit? As i said He WASNT A GUNNER and shouldn’t of been filling that role “Wasn’t even trained for the role he was doing”. His system is no longer needed. Crews are trained better, and equipment is better, but he was the CO for an ELITE unit, He should not of made those kinds of mistakes. Unlike A10 pilots he has no excuse.

[@Old_Nosey]

@@official_alphabet_inc Not only does your "Sandstorm and heavy winds" not hold up visually it is clearly stated that there is a Bradley IFV that is NOT firing on this M113, why is that? Because its friendly? Or can this Bradley not see the vehicle just a couple meters away? He tried to monopolize his whole "System", (Done research into and cant find out what it is exactly, only that it didnt go into effect), the "Shitty screen the size of a credit card and arms length away" is something he should have great deals of knowledge on, meaning he should be able to use it to identify a vehicle, remember he was in charge of an Elite unit of apaches after all, no way they didnt train him on the basic systems he would have to use right? Yes his entire Chain of command (those above him anyway) need to of also been court marshalled, there is no way this man didnt cause the deaths of 2 American soldiers and the injuring of 6 others, he shouldnt of been allowed to retire, he should of been DDed at worst and Tried for wrongful death at best.

[@FuzzyKedama]

Thanks for posting this. I remember seeing this clip on the Guardian Of The Night episode on Discovery Wings. I miss that show.

[@randomexcessmemories4452]

This didn't have to happen. This could have been avoided. But for some reason, the cosmic hints were ignored and the gung-ho gunners were out for blood. This is harrowing to watch... Hopefully this is not out of tone, but does anyone have any information on the speech synthesizer generating that "radar searching/certain" phrase which plays every so often? I didn't realize the Apache had one.

[@ApacheRanch]

That’s the AN/APR-39 warning the pilots about radar systems tracking their position.

[@randomexcessmemories4452]

@@ApacheRanch Thank you!

[@TMACD67]

You are absolutly right. I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@dasanwoo]

I served under the then, Maj. Ralph E. Hayles with the Big Red 1. He came to our company and only was in scout copters only. He crashed 3 before 1986. He was previously a Tanker, having a beer with Top (Viet Vet) one night had told us that Hayles was to gun go. If we ever went to battle under his command, to stay clear, he would probably kill his own. Top was a great leader . Sad to hear his word came true. Peace be with you brothers. We will never forget.

[@christopherdallas238]

I went to OSUT and was stationed in West Germany with Sgt Middleton who was killed in the Bradley. I fought in the Gulf War in 2/4 CAV, 24th ID. Middleton was in HHC, 1-41 INF Scout PLT, 2AD (FWD). The whole incident still makes me sick. The BFV's are distinct and there is no mistaking them.

[@davidbenc1809]

Amen brother. I never use the brother word unless i mean it. How you doing Dizzy D?

[@christopherdallas238]

@@davidbenc1809 Say! I just so happened to notice a red dot on my avatar. I'll try to write this slower so you can keep up. I've had a very eventful last 12 months. Divorcing after 30 years. Mom died. Retiring in 2 months and Moving to NC. Going to be a ranch hand on my dad's hog farm. So many other things too. And you? Are you going to try and GTFO soon or have to wait a few m ore years?

[@davidbenc1809]

@@christopherdallas238 no I have a few more years. Rooster lives in NC. I’m sorry to hear about your marriage and mom. Hopefully hog farming is your thing

[@davidbenc1809]

@@christopherdallas238 oh and I read slow so don’t worry about me keeping up, ya prick you

[@christopherdallas238]

@@davidbenc1809 Oh. And my daughter deployed to Kuwait last year. (Army Medic). 33 years after we fought there.

[@Eric-qk3bk]

The camera mimics head movement. I wonder if that's why it was on the ground so long from a hanging head as he digested what just happened. Just so sad. I truly hope he survived this.

[@JAnx01]

No, he was continuing to do his job - scanning the horizon for threats.

[@Nahbruhsheesh]

I hope he didn’t. We don’t need that clown making decisions out here

[@vivious_]

@@Nahbruhsheesh war isnt a game

[@Nahbruhsheesh]

@@vivious_ 😂 what?!

[@vivious_]

@@Nahbruhsheesh am i wrong?

[@taygray86]

Dude should've trusted his gut... the gun jamming gave him extra time to think too... horrible accident that no pilot ever wants to go thru

[@surefiresteak0292]

he was told to shoot by his CO

[@lebojay]

How many pilots who trusted their gut died as a result? We’ll never know.

[@taygray86]

@@lebojay if you aren't 100% sure, you shouldn't be sending rounds

[@SurfingBullDog]

Call sign “Stalwart?” That would be 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry Regiment, right? I was in this unit 2011-2013.

[@timbranson9968]

That is correct 1/41 Infantry

[@ryannocera6690]

Sincerely hope someone was held accountable for this. Completely unacceptable

[@ryannocera6690]

@DeeJay1210 I cant see it for some reason. All descriptions on my app are blank.

[@joedredd13215]

@DeeJay1210 yeah like that’s the real important issue here. 🤦‍♂️

[@mrgqfinest]

That night was hard to deal with after the unfortunate incident! I was attached to the unit with the apaches and EVERYONE was EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLY QUIET! That next morning my unit of ADA (16S stingers) didn't want to go out into our positions to give air support..we was afraid we might be next. The fear was completely unnerving. It was hard for those pilots after they got back...I know it was. I heard not long after this that another unit was hit with our own MLRS. Being over there in the PGW was not easy for anyone. Especially dealing with FF. I hated that it happened...wish we had a do over button to save everyone involved from this pain. Technology back then was not at it's best. But I know this was a very hard lesson to teach later going forward for what to do and how to do it correctly. Prayers for all that was and still are affected by this. REST IN HEAVEN! 🙏

[@steverenfrow4889]

Tragic to say the least but what was up with that noise that kept playing, woo woo woo woo, was that part of the audio or did they add that?

[@ApacheRanch]

That’s feedback from the old analog tape machines in the aircraft.

[@steverenfrow4889]

Thank you for the feedback, I really couldn’t figure out why you would add that sound, I thought it may have been the sound off of the rotar blades being picked up on the audio.

[@MoneyTrees2012]

The rage I'd feel to be related to someone serving who was killed by friendly fire in such a terrible and stupid way. This and the A-10 Warthog friendly fire incident both had blood lusted people endangering, and taking, the lives of those around them. Absolutely ridiculous.

[@alexandre007opa]

The A10 had literally received "information" that there were no friendlies in the area

[@Marlou_ka]

The A10 incident, pilot repeatedly asks command (i think thrice) to confirm if there are no friendlies on the target.

[@NekomiyaTH]

A10 lFF is suc back in the day.... mostly eyes visual to identify...

[@MoneyTrees2012]

@Matthew Singer The pilots asked the Forward Air Controller ("Manila Hotel") if friendly forces were around the Iraqi vehicles - not to the west. Neither pilot gave the precise grid references for the Household Cavalry patrol to double check its identity. The pilots convinced themselves that the orange identification panels were in fact orange rocket launchers. POPOV36 decided to attack, saying he is "rolling in" without permission from the Forward Air Controller. POPOV35 asked for artillery to fire a marker round into the target area to clear up confusion, but POPOV36 attacked without waiting for it. POPOV36 strafed the column for a second time, but still doubted its identity.

[@EtherFox]

@@Marlou_ka different pilot asked for confirmation than the one who fired

[@battleaxe51]

That's the biggest problem with just giving a Grid to an airborne platform. you should always have a talk on to the target with someone who can identify target and AC.

[@meanstavrakas1044]

TRIGGER HAPPY KING SHIT COWBOYS! The very fact that 2 Vehicles were PARKED within 700 Meters (Not 2 Klicks) of Friendly Forces should have been a Red Flag, and then "My gun is jammed", was another Red Flag to STOP! And whatever happened to verifying Targets? There were over 100 different types of Vehicles in the Coalition. A Type that can not be identified was most likely a Friendly.

[@steveclarke2311]

This is the same as when A10s attacked a British column killing Matty Hull. The British had orange plates on their vehicles to identify themselves. American pilots identified them as Orange rockets!! As if the Iraqis would put bright orange rockets on their vehicles.

[@Sam-760]

I feel so bad for the gunner. You can feel the grief in his voice. He was the only one that was hesitant and felt it may be friendly while others were like kill, kill, kill! Also, the gun jamming was a sign from god to not shoot. RIP to soldiers that perished. Sad all around.

[@onemischiefmaker7032]

Why do you feel bad for him. The man pulling the trigger has to be the one to confirm his target. If your hunting and see something moving do you just start shooting? This was a crime and he should be charged for it! You should read the Rules Of Engagement.

[@Donut833]

Hell of a sign I guess… don’t shoot ‘em with the 30MM hit em with the Hellfire.

[@kinggooseman5373]

@@onemischiefmaker7032 unless you’ve been ordered to fire by every superior and your oh I don’t know IN A FUCKING WAR?! The deer don’t shoot back you fucking idiot. Rules of engagement change, their isn’t a fucking book to read. You should familiarize yourself with the actual situation before you pretend to understand

[@trip645]

@@onemischiefmaker7032 false he was ordered to shoot so he shot. Idk if you know but in the military if you’re told to do something you have to do it

[@lesliepolar]

@@trip645 nope your wrong gunner have the right not to shoot if they can't identify the target

[@Uneldo7]

I am curious. Was it LTC Hayles who fired the shots that killed the friendlies, who felt guilt afterwards, or was he the one who gave the orders to make the shots? Thanks.

[@ApacheRanch]

LTC Hayles was in the front seat of the Apache that fired the shots.

[@alantoon5708]

I think the problem here is that the responsible party saw what he wanted to see and not what was actually there. Same thing as in the later F-15 v. UH-60 incidents. Although my Army MOS was about as far away from combat arms as one can get I have read/own several books on armored vehicles and have built models of most of the Army armor in use. I could tell what they were.

[@agdgdgwngo]

Exactly my thoughts, I'd have thought the pilots would have better knowledge of the armour in use. Or got a bit closer for a better look, you could already them it wasn't anything the enemy used

[@FuzzyKedama]

So I was just a kid when I first saw this footage on Discovery Wings episode "Guardian Of The Night" (I have that recorded on VHS and that tape is worn down now lol). As a kid I only could comprehend that something went wrong, but now as an adult rewatching this footage (and thanks to you, the full footage), now I understand the whole situation. I read somewhere that after that whole incident LTC Hayles was relieved of command and after ODS, he went on to develop the "Flashlight" IFF system to help prevent fratricide. I know he's still developing the system and refining it, but I don't know if the DoD ever decided to adopt it.

[@ApacheRanch]

You bring up some great points. I’m not sure if his attempts were ever adopted in part or as a whole either.

[@FuzzyKedama]

@@ApacheRanch I saw some pictures and articles of it being tested by US Army personnel but that's about it. I see on his LinkedIn page that he's developed that system for USSOCOM, but again nothing else to indicate if it was adopted for big Army or for SOCOM.

[@jeffreyrhymer8985]

9:50 MARK!! " I hope it not friendly's I blew up because their all dead " CHILLING WORDS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@joe18425]

I fell bad for the helicopter crew & I feel terrible for the troops. There is no winners in this situation.

[@tazzinasellout7968]

I am writing from Italy and I have just seen this video. I served my country in 1993 during an operational mission to Africa. I was a simple infantryman (Alpine Infantry, 3rd Alpine Regiment, TAURINENSE brigade), so I don't know the ARMY AVIATION procedures, so I can't give any judgments. I would just like to express my condolences for those American girls who have fallen. rest in peace. absolute respect also for all the soldiers who serve their country. a greeting.

[@ronaldjohnston439]

This is the first time I have actually seen the video. I was a contractor assigned to the 1/1 but was instructed to stay back from the unit until the ground war was over. When I did fly up to join the unit was when I learned about this. I worked for Martin Marieta at the time which we worked on the TADS/PNVS night vision systems. I heard a lot of rumors about the commander Hayles not sure if they were true but know for a fact if you ever questioned him and he was your commander you better be 100% correct or your Army career would be over.

[@TMACD67]

I could tell you anything you wanted to know about LTC Hayles. . I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@flyback_driver]

On my first deployment I had the fortune to be selected to be sn RTO. I did a lot of asset control during raids and i was always frustrated with AH-64 pilots hesitancy to do anything really. It wasnt until i went on my second deployment also filling the role of team RTO (original 25c got injuried and despite being 11b i was most qualified) but this was a pathfinder unit. So I had spent hours/days directing them during gunnery and face to face conversations for a better understanding of each other. For reference Pathfinder companies were within an aviation brigade so finding pilots wasn't difficult. I learned a large portion of post 9/11 AH-64 pilots are former 11b and that was really nice to know. They've been there done that before so they understand the urgency. I also learned 'lasing targets' is ineffective due to the way the cannon and HUD works. The gunner will attempt to highlight targets for ground units with thier ir laser but its not actually on target. This is because the HUD sees the target the cannon is left, right, high, or low to account for distance or windage automatically. In my experience AH-64 and OH-58 pilots preferred directions to the target as if you are telling someone hiw to drive there. Follow this road, then take a left at the fork, and its the third building on the right. I'm sure they expedite the route but that's always been a dummy method for guiding AH-64s onto targets.

[@Parker_Garage]

In layman’s terms can someone explain what the 25 grid line means and how they could misinterpret that they were outside of it ??

[@ApacheRanch]

The map they were using back in 1991 was outlined in 1 kilometer sized grid squares. The 25 grid line is like a latitude/longitude line, whereby ground troops were expected to be located to one side of that line on the map. Since the aircraft did not have it's own position accurately identified on the same map, they believed they were looking at enemy targets, beyond where friendly troops were known to be located. Flying low over the sand at night, with no visual references to confirm their own location, the aircrew had to trust their internal doppler navigation system for correct positioning. This was a fatal mistake, since it was incorrect by at least 2 kilometers. Hope that helps.

[@Parker_Garage]

@@ApacheRanch wow thanks for the great explanation, and yes very unfortunate for everyone involved

[@ApacheRanch]

Can’t say they did everything right. Back then the aircraft had no GPS. Your paper map was primary for navigation. Doppler radar in the aircraft helped, but it drifted over time. So pilots had to keep updating their location over known points to minimize Doppler error. Like mentioned in another comment, there were many factors contributing here to the tragedy.

[@averidge1529]

@@ApacheRanch is the doppler radar the whale-like sound I keep hearing? Thought it was just an issue with the recording

[@ApacheRanch]

That’s feedback on the tapes. When converted they always had weird humming noises.

[@kiitos8426]

I was just reading a Washington Post article explaining the incident in which U.S Army officials claimed: "U.S. Apache helicopters fired at least 100 laser-guided Hellfire missiles at a group of trucks, observation posts and scattered infantrymen". Weird how you can see the damage control in practice here, versus 20 years later when the actual footage is released and you clearly see megalomaniacal LTC just wanting to shoot something, and a gunner hesitant to follow

[@ApacheRanch]

FYI LTC Hayles was the CPG (gunner) in the front seat.

[@oldspicey6001]

We get to learn from this instead of it being hidden or covered up

[@overzone666]

This isnt what anyone wants. It happens isnt an excuse. We all know the guy in our platoon who is all gung-ho for murder. Dont be like that. That is how this happens.

[@themalhama9129]

But what if the weekly pool is on who can get the most confirmed kills?...

[@overzone666]

@@themalhama9129 nobody has weekly pools

[@Marder1A1]

it really shows how war turns humans to monsters, he had no sense of decision making just kill, kill, kill

[@HardcoreFourSix]

Where is the video of the BN Commander of an Apache Battalion hosing 4 M1A1s with Hellfires? I talked to the tank crews in the line at the AT&T tent

[@bollewillem1]

Terrible that it happened. And it is also terrible that one of the pilots had a bad feeling but did not speak up for unknown reasons. Blue on blue happens in war, war is terrible.

[@LockheedC-130HerculesOfficial]

It was the gunner who didn't want to shoot and even had the gun jam, and the pilot was the one who fired the missiles

[@StrikeTheRoot]

Unfortunately, you do have a duty to follow orders, but the gunner clearly was hesitant and with good reason. a tragedy that unfortunately happens in war all too often.

[@SpaghettiWithMeatSauce]

I'm not so sure if firing upon friendlies is considered a lawful order though.

[@jace3728]

While the 1-1 AVN Commander admitted that "the responsibility to fire always rests with the firing person," he commented that "I would have never fired on my own, and did not fire on my own, but fired at the urging and pestering of a ground commander senior to me who I was working for." He added that the Ground Commander told him three times to "go ahead and take them out," which he considered to be a "lawful order."

[@theguywithone]

Why don’t they mount IR strobes on friendly vehicles? Just curious.

[@BudderCraft526]

Was a mechanic in the Corps, i can't speak for this time period but at least these days all vehicles I delt with have the capability to turn on an IR light for night operations, could have been used here as a mark if they just asked all friendly vehicles to turn on IR lights (if they were mounted those days) even head mounted nvg's have the ability to turn on an ir light, but like the abrams battle where a friendly was hit, they had all friendly tanks turn on headlights, but there's so many shoulda woulda coulda all depends on the ability to adapt to a situation by the ones in charge, or suggestions made to them

[@theguywithone]

@@BudderCraft526 Thank you for your service and for your comment.

[@BudderCraft526]

@@theguywithone thank you very much, and incredible marksmanship in your video!!

[@theguywithone]

@@BudderCraft526 Thank you. As you know, it’s a perishable skill and takes lots training, dedication and time to learn. I am a certified weapons instructor and my father was before me. He taught me how to shoot the old way, modified Weaver. Once I started doing competition, I realizedthat I needed to change a lot of things I learned from my father to be able to even compete with the modern isosceles stance. I basically had to relearn everything into muscle memory again the right way. The only reason that video exists is because a guy at the range the day before said it was impossible. Lol. It’s not. 90% of marksmanship problems are between your ears. Thank you again.

[@BudderCraft526]

@@theguywithone love your dedication to your passion, glad you were able to show the doubters what your capable of

[@saladbreath607]

As bad as it was, they were just seconds away from it being far worse. Had the 1st Apache's 30mm cannon not jammed, the walking wounded would've been mowed down. The other Apaches were ordered to engage the soldiers with cannons but got called off just in time.

[@22cowboys]

Definitely a difference in professionalism bcuz this is crazy what I’m listening to. If you can’t verify target you do not squeeze the trigger. Plain and simple

[@SouthSide-dy6vm]

buddy you are sitting on your ass watching this video . Place yourself in Iraq as a target yourself . Making decisions every minute. You saw how they wanted him to track another person within minutes 👩🏻‍🦲

[@user-eu1ht7tx8u]

@@SouthSide-dy6vm can’t blame the gunner, blame the order

[@brandonmorgan4871]

That’s simply not true. You are given targets and you engage. Quit watching tv and enlist if you want to come and check out the real thing.

[@user-eu1ht7tx8u]

@@brandonmorgan4871 i’m in the Canadian reserves buddy. he didn’t have much of a choice he was given a order. the whole situation is very sad and unfortunate.

[@GuardianW1]

They had better video quality than what we see on youtube and I recognized the M113 anyway. After reading a bit, it turned out that Iraq didn't have any M113s before 2013.

[@MJ-ef5dd]

The whole conversation is unbelievable...

[@lordmccormick4792]

“ I hope there not freindlys as there all dead now” The pure fucking hubris! There men! With familys, sons,father’s, your comrades!! On the ground!! In the filthy mess of war… Tragic. But have some respect!!

[@nickmaclachlan5178]

For the sake of a fifty dollar IR strobe or similar, this could totally have been avoided. The Desert in '91 was full of testosterone filled career officers who could see promotions coming off the back of how many Iraqi kills they could make........ it made for a very dangerous place to be. I was still in basic in the UK having just joined the Royal Navy and we were all a Gnats ball hair away from being sent out here as stretcher bearers/spare/gash hands/sandbag fillers/khazi drillers etc....... so glad I didn't go.

[@theimmortal4718]

How about the pilot just learn what enemy vehicles looked like. Clearly an American M113. All they had to do was call the Bradley's and ask them to look at them to confirm

[@ceTarnity]

13:25 if i were the pilots and I thought I had just killed that many friendlies I’d want nothing more then to be out of that cockpit, can’t imagine his stress levels and claustrophobia in that moment

[@NekomiyaTH]

They should just say that nose gun was jam then fly back(since it was actually jamming)

[@orvil9223]

How could you fire at something if you weren't sure what it was? There was no shooting going on, no one seemed to be in danger at that exact moment, I don't see what the rush was when you say "It's hard to pull this trigger"? That alone should have meant that more measures identifying the target needed to be taken. It was only roughly 2 minutes between the shots and the call for the cease fire. What couldn't wait two minutes?

[@TMACD67]

You are absolutly right. I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@killdozer3464]

my uncle (Gulf Vet) told me about this incident and the investigation. He said "more Americans died from friendly fire than from enemy forces." fast forward to me in Afghanistan when Tillman was killed, even though it was originally hushed, we knew. and this story from my uncle is all I thought about.

[@ChristopherGray00]

there are a lot of friendly fire incidents but no more americans do not die from friendly fire, not sure where he got those statistics from.

[@KC-bg1th]

@G E T R E K T That joke was told by a British soldier or pilot. Also, the British and Germans killed thousands of their own civilians during bombing raids because of flak falling back down on their own cities.

[@Nahbruhsheesh]

@@ChristopherGray00 how many us navy have died in combat versus “accidents” in the past two years? 😂

[@HarryBalzak]

@@ChristopherGray00 Yup. I have a book on the Gulf war and it states 25-33% of all US casualties were FF. Those are casualties, which are not always deaths.

[@genevandenham7999]

It wad a figure of speech back then to illustrate how bad we were at target identification. He wasn't actually stating a statistical fact. It was a common saying that everyone kind of joked about to lesson the emotional impact that FF was a massive concern.

[@codycumpton8729]

Is that rotor wash noise or bearing noise?

[@FuzzyKedama]

I always wanted to know, what is that voice that periodically keeps saying "may-now urr-een"? Check at 11:29 for one of them. What exactly is it saying?

[@ApacheRanch]

That’s the APR-39 saying “radar searching” it’s detecting some air defense radar signals and warning the pilots to be aware of possible missiles coming at them.

[@FuzzyKedama]

@@ApacheRanch Ah ok! I guess with the old quality of the 8mm tapes it jarbles it up. Thanks for clarifying!

[@ApacheRanch]

That thing just really sounded weird anyhow. But you got used to it and would know what was going on. And yeah since these videos are all re-recordings of the monitor playing the actual Apache tapes, it does get degraded a bit. The Apache tapes were viewed on a proprietary player and monitor and you couldn’t make copies direct to VHS back then without using a video camera on a tripod.

[@FuzzyKedama]

@@ApacheRanch Yeah its much different with the older 64A's than today's 64D's and 64E's. That's so interesting that the APR-39 had that robotic male voice. I've heard the newer APRs that uses a female voice that sounds more like a human.

[@FuzzyKedama]

@@ApacheRanch Btw, do you have an email for business inquires?

[@Nahbruhsheesh]

Funny how two seconds after they’re hit everyone on the planet knows they are friendly. What a coincidence…

[@NekomiyaTH]

Some of them survivor probably relay the message to other vehicle then sent to heli....

[@D1_Peezy]

@@NekomiyaTH bro exactly

[@NekomiyaTH]

@@D1_Peezy thank God nose gun was jam or there will be no survivor....

[@pietrogazzera5733]

Are you sure the gun was jammed? I'm not...

[@MisterOso87]

Absolutely tragic and unavoidable. IIRC The front seater was the CO of the unit who had orders to NOT fly, but he didn’t want to miss the action. The GPS wasn’t operating correctly which is why their grids were off on top of that, they had a strong crosswind which made them go parallel to the screening units.

[@12345fowler]

avoidable you meant ?

[@phunkyjunkee]

Absolutely avoidable. They were not sure what they were firing at.

[@12345fowler]

@@phunkyjunkee Off course, I think it was a typo on his post

[@ImNotQualifiedToSayThisBut]

I just read a comment saying that they didn't have any GPS at that time.

[@ApacheRanch]

@@ImNotQualifiedToSayThisBut correct - the A model Apache had Doppler for navigation. GPS was not integrated into these aircraft in 1991. Some handheld GPS were used but not common at that time.

[@CaddyJim]

In the fog of War accidents happen but what is kind of disappointing in this instant is the slowness not to get help to the friendly fire incident

[@IveSeenSupernatural]

This guy wanted blood so bad he couldn’t think straight....and then tries to blame command for his mistake. His character is on full display here

[@TMACD67]

You are absolutly right. I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@bigdaddysoup2427]

Commander doesn't know his east from his west.

[@nemolomen3526]

I was a cook (94B) in 3/66AR. We shared a dining facility with 1/41INF in Garlstedt, Germany. We knew them, they were us. Our units were deployed together (2nd AD FWD) to Desert Storm, attached to 1st ID. The first time I saw this video was on the evening news after returning stateside from Germany in late 1991. The whole thing still haunts me to this day...

[@davidbenc1809]

I was scout platoon 1-41 88`-91` you guys ROCKED with our chow. Thank you!!

[@seancrumby3241]

My brother is in the Bradley Sgt David Crumby, took him hours to die in pain because morphine wasn't supplied The other dead was fast we all hope because he burned. War sucks but everyone did their job as well as possible.

[@davidbenc1809]

@@seancrumby3241 your brother died about a week after this. It was horrific and we were stretched out thin. I knew your brother, not well but knew him in Germany. He was an upstanding NCO who was always there for his troops. Joe Dienstag was a friend of mine and your brothers best friend

[@TMACD67]

. I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@noneofyourbusiness9489]

If you look him up he is still refusing to accept any responsibility. No guilt, and he actually tries to make money off the incident.

[@pozimoto5447]

Felt like a higher power was trying to give a nudge that this wasn't a good idea. First gun jams, then tracking goes haywire. I would have trusted my gut and requested secondary visual confirmation.

[@c5dynomite]

So where was the breakdown in communication here? It sounded like they kept confirming that they didn’t have any friendlies in that location, so who is to blame for their location not being tracked? Did those vehicles go further than expected? Were the pilots being irresponsible? I just want to know where things broke down

[@TMACD67]

he was not one of the regular pilots who flew that aircraft I was a medic with HHC 4th Avn Bde from Ft. Riley , also the company LTC Hayles was from. He was a cocky gung ho BDE Officer who I never saw on any of the training missions that the warrant officers , flew in back in the states. He never left his office . I firmly belive the normal Pilots would have , Known to believe what the computers were saying about the targets, and that they were drifting across friendly lines and not parallel to them . I know friendly fire accidents do happen in war but this one should not have . He was told by the Bde commander not to fly on this misson . but he choose to do it anyway

[@th.burggraf7814]

Doesn't seem to bother him too much that he just killed two of his comrades... Weird!

[@kingarthur5110]

Anybody know if the tracking error was as a result of them trying to target friendly vehicles? Was that software built in or was that just coincidence?

[@Hetzerg]

6:50 he laughed when he killed his own buddies. He must having nightmares in his whole life

[@hoping5135]

No they don't