Super Vel .38 Special+P "Super Snub"

[@GunSam]

I wanted to point out, that a viewer did indeed supply this ammunition. I may have made it confusing by saying that I personally ordered it. The viewer indeed supplied the funds with the request that they wanted to see this ammunition in action. So again, thank you channel supporter!

[@joshbonds3599]

I was actually wondering how people go about requesting a particular ammo test and providing the ammo. So there's something like a patreon account?

[@jamesnevitt3400]

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I just picked up a box today! Super vel

[@KYGUNGUY]

Sir, you are one dedicated individual! 25 degrees and 11 wind chill. Wow! Thank you for what you do to provide this information.

[@gregdiamond4328]

Excellent Video 👍 I remember shooting these in the early 70's out of a mod 36 and the mod. 60. It was a heavier jhp and they were pretty stout. I think the weight of these two revolvers each, was just under 20 oz. I remember a pawn shop owner was robbed and as the robber drove away the pawn shop owner shot a few rounds in the back of the big Cadillac. The vehicle was recovered about five miles from the scene. I was surprised that two rounds went thru the chrome rear bumper and one round thru the threads of the rear tire causing a blow out. The victim was shooting a mod.60 snubby, this was also in the early 1970's.

[@GunSam]

If it were these rounds I could imagine. The literature with this ammo admittedly says that the early rounds from decades ago were not pressure tested the way that the modern ones are. Even these new ones seemed to not expand much but still cause damage, I will have to shoot through my metal ballistics box and see what they do. Thanks for watching!

[@LionquestFitness]

This time I'd have to go with the 9 millimeter for all the reasons you mentioned. Good presentation.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. Revolvers are those things that need a good balance, and this ammo is a little out of balance for this gun. In a heavier gun it might be good, but alloy J-frames need sub 250 ft lb energy ammo-for me.

[@mkshffr4936]

@@GunSam I would be interested to see what it does in a 4" K frame. I bet it would be pretty impressive. I think that in Gel you might have seen pretty substantial damage.

[@oldcop18]

I recall Super Vel when I started my career in 1968. We were specifically prohibited from putting this in our service revolvers, or substituting anything for the issued 158 grain round nose service ammo.

[@GunSam]

And what I hear is that 158 gr LRN is the least effective round there is. Pretty bad they made you use what wasn't effective. I'm sure you know stories of it working well, but most stats on the LRN is pretty bad.

[@oldcop18]

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I shot & dropped one suspect w/it, but it failed to stop a bad guy in a second gunfight in 1974 even though I hit him four times and had to finish the fight w/my blackjack.

[@biffdinkley3870]

I went through a couple of boxes of .38 +P Super Snub. I concur... it is like a .357-lite. Fierce recoil and lots of muzzle flash out of a snub barrel. I did chrono very close to what they advertise. I liked it out of a 4" steel K frame (a model 64), and got around 1630 fps from it. The SuperVel is a mean .38 Spl round.

[@GunSam]

Yes I have gotten as much as a 5 shot average of 1,652 FPS in a 4". But other times I have gotten 5 shot averages in a 4" of 1,570 FPS. I weighed an empty brass case and was surprised as it was significantly heavier than other .38 Special brass. To me this doesn't really make much sense as .38 Special brass can essentially take on .357 Magnum pressure and be fine, but i'm sure there is a reason for it, I suspect that even at low pressure the way the powder burns probably expands the case more than average.

[@wsc31]

When Super Vel came onto the scene we thought is was the right cartridge to replace the department issued 158 grain RNL. After a few trips to the range it showed great potential but the velocity variation in shot to shot comparison ruled it out. Some rounds were real performers yet others felt like squibs. We eventually switched to .357 with 158 grain JHP.

[@bjs301]

Dag! That's some smokin' .38 ammo.

[@GunSam]

It's actually under SAAMI spec. No more than 20,000 PSI

[@scott2228]

Watching all ur vids. This round is out of stock. I’m impressed. I care more about penetration in this round out of a J frame vs expansion.

[@williamgrissom1995]

Thank you for another great video. I was very surprised to see a 38 that was moving that fast. But I must admit I'm just going by what I've learned, that I still remember, from watching your videos. Lol 😂 Keep up the great work and maybe someday I might really learn some of this. Ok I doubt it, but it's worth a shot anyway. Lol. 🤣

[@freshfowler1398]

Great comparison and testing as always brother!! Thanks for sharing and God bless 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@GunSam]

Thank you. Thanks for watching.

[@HeavyMetalGuns]

Great video,thanks for the info!!

[@GunSam]

Thank you, thanks for watching!

[@richardelliott9511]

Love the videos. I'll bet that on recycling day you are walking the streets collecting milk jugs fron your neighbors' bins. Lol

[@rossgreenzweig]

Throw that 38 out of the Smith 686, that'll be interesting!!

[@GunSam]

I thought about it, but did not. It would be interesting to see the results, as higher differences between the two indicate simply charging a cartridge high rather than using fast burning powders.

[@millsjordan30]

I like that super vel!

[@GunSam]

It should shoot better in a heavier gun. Might be a nice Colt Cobra load.

[@thebluesrockers]

Sam, There looks to be some orbs flying around you around the 8 minute mark of this video, I know it was spitting snow, but there also looks to be some fast flying orbs around you. One in particular at 8:06 -8:08 flys right across you so fast that there's absolutely no way that it could be snow. I bet some paranormal people would have a hay day with this old clip. You ever have anything off the wall happen out there around you when you're out there testing ammo? Just wondering.. I know this is unrelated but I watched you shredding your guitar last night in a video on my TV. I was quite impressed. If you lived near me I'd love to jam with you. Take care and I really hope you have a great holiday season. always a pleasure watching your video's. Peace..Joe

[@828enigma6]

Interesting the lack of expansion with the velocity of the Super Vel. Perhaps the copper was too hard. Also too much velocity variation.

[@mkshffr4936]

Was it lack of expansion or did it lose some fragments?

[@donnadonna9907]

Great video again Sam!! I would like to see the super vel out of a 4 inch barrel just out of curiosity. Rich

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I will definitely shoot it in the 4" when I get a chance. I would expect at least 1,500 FPS.

[@ED-2.0.9.]

Finally finagled the time to sit and rewatch this. Enjoyed these comparisons very much! Bring on the LeadBullets4Life heavyweights trials! (perhaps in the thaw?). I'm cooking Gel (block) and am going to revisit the Barnes 140 TAC-XPBs' in high book load standard pressure and see if I can replicate a couple things that I've seen, but didn't document appropriately, (especially after the ARX fiasco).

[@GunSam]

I been thinking about doing those 170 bullet tests and the Super-Vel through a 4" asap. I think it will be 32 degrees today and tomorrow, but i'm not sure yet because i'm feeling a little off. After the next two days it's supposed be in the likes of like 17 degrees and stuff like that for highs, before the wind chills.

[@ED-2.0.9.]

@@GunSam I'd eventually sure be curious to see another example or two of the Super Vel hitting a jug because I was rather surprised at that lack of expansion, and seemingly sideways flattening, that occurred with the snub despite the obvious huge amount of energy imparted into the 1st hapless jug. *Not* wanting to start another round of punking on your 342, but I kinda wonder if it's not happy with very short / light stuff. (?) I'd think about anybody / everybody might be curious to see that out of a 4-inch barrel anyway.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam It's currently 25ºF in my part of the world. I would be honestly surprised if your area got warmer than mine. What are these 170 bullet tests you refer to? I feel like I've missed something.

[@GunSam]

@@Fudmottin lead bullets 4 life sent me some 170 gr lswcs.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam Cool! Are you going to load them as magnums or specials? BB has a 180gr load that I think they pretty much intend for hunting.

[@Graydog-sx6le]

I like the idea of a hyper ammo but they usually don’t perform well. I tend to carry Hornady or some Remington +P loads. Anyway good video as always and DAMN it looks cold.

[@GunSam]

The wind chill was 11. My body which has RA told me that I was losing my mind going out today, but the weather isn't changing for two weeks, no way around this! The Hornady Critical Defense or Speer Gold Dots perform pretty consistent for me. I am getting to the point where I think that 110 gr bullets seem to be the perfect combination of everything needed to make a great .38 Special snub nose bullet. That weight at about 1,000 FPS have always been the best performers with pretty much any hollow point design.

[@wemcal]

Those are some fast .38s..

[@GunSam]

I am willing to bet I would have gotten 1,500 FPS in a 4" barrel.

[@dahdahbeautiful5150]

Can't get enough of your videos 38 Special plus p ain't no joke but a 9 mm is just as powerful as it too but like always say I'm going for the 38 I love that ammo we're I go to buy it

[@GunSam]

Thank you. I went right to the Supervel site. It did take about 10 days to receive my order, but their price is as good or better than the handful of places you can find it online. www.supervelammunition.com/product-page/38-special-p-super-snub-90-gr-jhp-20-count-box

[@dahdahbeautiful5150]

Bro next time shoot that out of your 4" barrel I will love to c that thanks bro

[@GunSam]

@@dahdahbeautiful5150 I forget my 4" today, but as I was driving I figured, eh, not many people like that anyhow. Plus it was so cold I had my two pistols I did have on my body.

[@Fudmottin]

I was really expecting a third jug catch. The velocities are too inconsistent for my taste. I'm still not a fan of the ultralight bullets. I bet almost all the recoil you felt was from the jet of propellent gasses coming out the muzzle rather than the bullet itself. The jug and wood tests would probably come up different with a different round of the same stuff since the energy range is all over the place. I believe heavier bullets can be loaded with better consistency. I would pick a proper magnum load over that. The Critical Duty 135gr is not too bad out of a snubbie. I haven't tried the Critical Defense 125gr yet. Have you made any progress in diagnosing or fixing the problem you had with the ARX out of the snubbie yet?

[@GunSam]

I was dropping .357" bullets through my cylinder after it was cleaned up. There is one chamber where the bullet does not drop free. This does not explain why two of the ARX bullets in a row fragmented, but I suspect this has something to do with it. It would be interesting to get a 4" velocity test, because with a 90 grain, if I seen more than a 200 FPS difference, to me this would suggest that the company did nothing more than super pack those cartridges with powder rather than using a fast burning powder the way that Speer seems to do. All in all, the bullet weight that seems to have to most consistency in all of my testing for expansion in a snubby is a 110 gr at about 1,000 fps, which is very doable in a snubby, and I have seen happen many times.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam I would expect Hornady to have good quality control and know what they're doing. I would also expect the same from Speer. I would still like to see more comparisons of light and fast vs heavy and slow at the same muzzle energy, same caliber, fired from the same gun. I think more energy will usually perform better, but a lot depends on bullet construction.

[@GunSam]

@@Fudmottin Sounds like a challenge! I suppose when I get a chance I can get XTP's in 110, 125, 140 and 158 and attempt loading them to the same power level. That might be challenging as the load data uses 7.7" barrels and I have a 4". I can use the charge that would indicate the same power in a 7.7" and see how it does. I did do something like this a couple years ago, but that was before I had a chronograph and it was just a wood penetration test. I must have deleted that video as I don't see it anymore, but what I got was roughly identical wood penetration.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam It's part of the caliber debate in a way. The wrinkle is, instead of comparing .45 ACP to 9x19mm, everything is equal except how you deliver the energy. It may prove quite enlightening.

[@GunSam]

@@Fudmottin I have always noticed that the bullet takes on as much damage as what it hits often times. Heavier of same caliber is long, more sectional density, so there's more base to hold up, more base to not be damaged. The tip construction is the big factor. Now with FMJ of all weights, that's where the whole momentum and tumbling or lack thereof comes into play. It's all an amazing science. Still to this day however I am still drawn into the mystical powers of the .45 ACP. I know half of the myths are just that, but I still love it.

[@apathy2673]

Horrendous recoil sounds painful and not LCR friendly. Ow. Might be a good non magnum round for the SP101(or similar). Time to find some and try it out. Indoors. With heat 🥶

[@GunSam]

I doubt that the temperature would change much. I say that because even at 75 degrees I chronographed this same 9mm ammo and got 1,158 FPS average. At 25 degrees it's 1,143 FPS. The biggest issure would be if I left the ammo outside overnight, which I did not.

[@apathy2673]

@@GunSam 🤟

[@mathewmolk2089]

In a short range confrontation very loud report and a giant flash can be your friends. - If you don't hit them you can scare them to death.

[@tedberwick3186]

Ty

[@thedriver5462]

Have you ever tested Liberty Civil Defense in 38 or 357?

[@GunSam]

I have not tested that yet.

[@Ford360CID]

wow!!! what a screamer!! wonder what it would do out of your 686, did it feel like a grenade going off in your hand? i remember a company did the same for the .357 mag using a 90gn bullet back in the 80's but didnt take off i think for the same reason super vel 38s in the same loading there was just way too much air space in the case causing way to much deviation, but it was designed for close range impact and not long for range accuracy, of course the 9mm having a shorter case compacting the powder charge with no air space for a much better standard deviation being lower and accuracy. now as far as penetration goes.. if the bullet was designed with a rapid expanding soft bullet the velocity would have turn that bullet into bits of frags without much penetration when impacting the water jugs...so yes the bullet held up under that high velocity and i can see why super vel design their bullet that way, its not like a 380 hollow point where it expands fast at lower velocities so on a defensive stand point id rather have the velocity shock wave do more terminal damage than relying on the hollow point to expand and the bullet reaching deep to hit vitals.

[@GunSam]

I am willing to bet we would see well over 1,500 FPS in the 686. It had some recoil, it wasn't too unbearable but comparable to lets say a full house .357 Magnum out of a 22 oz S&W 640 pro, something along those lines. The bullet really baffles my mind, I can see how it stopped in jug 5 without much expansion as it's only 90 grain, but how did it explode the first two jugs so well?

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam Velocity. Water does not compress. It got pushed out of the way very quickly! I agree with lead bullets 4life about the expansion. If it was a .380 ACP bullet, there would be nothing left of it. As it was, that would be a nasty cookie cutter flying through someone.

[@GunSam]

Thought I would mention that I did feature your bullets in my latest video, but I will also have an entire video on them soon. I shot the video with the 4" and 1.875" as well at put them on paper and all of that.

[@CandidZulu]

That obvious energy dump seems odd since it did not expand much!?

[@GunSam]

It was still hitting fast for how light the bullet was. Usually we don't see a non expanding explosion like that unless it's a rifle round.

[@MPGunther1]

Wondering if it's just as easy to just go 357 considering the cost and the power of the Super Vel's

[@GunSam]

Yes, but the whole reason for supervel is the low cost and availability of the S&W J frame. If someone can afford a .357 and can handle the carry weight, a .357 is a better choice if you want more power.

[@mathewmolk2089]

If you ever fired a .357 2" gun I don't think you would feel the same. - 50 years ago (Was it really that long) I carried a Steel Frame BodyGuard as my offduty pistolla when I was on the job and most of us used the original 100 Gr SuperVels in both our Mod 10s and off duty guns. I never thought the recoil was all that bad in either one but I once fired my friends .357 Derringer and WHOLEY SHIT! Like a grande going off in your hand. These days when I carry a gun it's a Mod 638 Airweight. I have only ever fired 158 Gr +P from it but even at my age I have no problem with the recoil. I don't see SuperVels being much different. Fact is since they don't make .38 Glasers I think SVs will be my next move. No complaints from anybody I know about the old ones. I do still have a Mod 13 (Mod 10 Heavy Barrel in .357) but I have only ever shot it one time and that was with .38 range rounds, but I'm betting the recoil is about the same or less then the Airweight with full .357 +P rounds. (Cheap Prick Slovenian here and I don't think I will ever spend the money on .357 rounds just to see the recoil of the Mod 13. Bad enough to pay for reload wadcutters 🥴) Bottom line. .357 is for only when it's "for real"

[@isabellabella6568]

🤯

[@Fudmottin]

Do you have any of that ammunition left? I would be very curious about the powder charge weight and powder type if you can recognize it.

[@GunSam]

yes, I have 22 rounds left. So a whole box and then some. I actually thought about doing a series called "what's in the case" where I pull a defensive round and inspect the powder, give weights and all of that. Maybe I should do that and start with the Super Vel lol

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam I'll tell you one thing. I am very interested in being able to duplicate that load. Well sort of. 110s seem to be the lightest bullets I can find easily, so a slightly lesser powder charge would be needed to avoid over pressure. I would also like less velocity deviation in a snubby. I wonder if that was a 380 ACP bullet being used. I would not be surprised if it measured 0.356" diameter. I've got a bunch of 102 gr Golden Sabers in that size. I also have some 38 Long Colt brass on order. Midway sells it for the same low price as the Shot Colt. Starline. Think of the loading options!

[@mkshffr4936]

That's 7.62x25 Tok territory. Snappy.

[@GunSam]

Might be cool to see the 7.62x25 vs like .327 Federal Magnum. I think they might be comparable.

[@mkshffr4936]

@@GunSam 2 thumbs up. Jug-or-not time.

[@ChiefX07]

TRY FEDERAL PUNCH .38 SPECIAL +P 120 GRAIN HOLLOWS THEY'RE NEW

[@CampDavid54]

Paul Harrell meets Alaskan Ballistics Chuck

[@GunSam]

Chuck's oldest video is 6 years ago. Paul's oldest video is 11 years ago. Mine is 14 years ago. Just saying.

[@louiswilkins7461]

Steel frame definitely

[@terrywaters6186]

There's no way that 38 bullet didn't expand at that velocity. I think maybe your revolver isn't stabilizing the bullets for some reason and they're tumbling in flight which explains your fragmenting of those rounds in flight the other day.

[@GunSam]

The gun seems to shoot accurate otherwise. I took the revolver down to bare bones, inspected it and cleaned it well. Timing is fine, everything seems fine.

[@JohnDoe-vq8bg]

I just watched you dancing and making tacos! And other funny vids you're in. The things a father will do...

[@GunSam]

@@JohnDoe-vq8bg how did you find those?

[@JohnDoe-vq8bg]

Old habits die hard. And I didn't have the heart to post them here and start a riot! Penut butter and bologna was awesome too.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Water jugs or ice jugs?

[@GunSam]

Water of course.

[@charlesphillips5906]

Brrrrrr. Looks cold out there.

[@GunSam]

@@charlesphillips5906 The water splash on my coat actually did freeze into ice in seconds.

[@freshfowler1398]

Super Vel I like your ammo if it was sayyy..... a 90gr Barnes Tac XP, I would buy it by the case!!✌👍🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@rustyshackleford9604]

And they said 38 special is a pud load 😏

[@GunSam]

And this round performs at no greater than 20,000 PSI, as Super Vel is loaded to SAAMI spec.

[@MegaAppleshit]

@@GunSam I wonder how in the hell they do it. They would make a killing if they sold the powder.

[@GunSam]

@@MegaAppleshit I think they are using a medium/slow burning powder, I say this because we had a good 250 FPS increase when I tested them in a different video with a 4" barrel. That coupled with a 90 gr bullet will give comparable case capacity to a .357 Magnum. How they keep it below 20,000 PSI is still a good question.

[@MegaAppleshit]

@@GunSam Yeah that's what I mean. How can they get that performance with the pressure limitations of 38 special. All I can say is if they have some weird low pressure slow burning powder, I'd pay out the nose for it. Think of what you could do with a 45acp or a 30-30 with powder like that.

[@kentonhammond8938]

Use all steel firearms, ta hell with Polymer & exotic light metals. Easier on you, & it's always more fun to watch manly guns on the range. I refuse to buy or carry Polymer guns, but that's just an old crumunsion like myself. I always shoot better with steel, no matter the size.

[@mathewmolk2089]

That's the way I feel about ALL automatics, Especially the plastic ones. The last automatic I carried I left in the company arms room in Vietnam.....What do you mean "Click"???? That was supposed to be BANG!. ---- And if you do have a round missfire in somthing like a model 10 Smith all you do is pull the trigger again. With a Gluuk if you get a misfire the plastic wrapper in a GI first aid kit is very usefull for the sucking chest wound you have a better the average chance to get before you can clear one of their plastic toys. BTW Anybody that needs more then 2 or 3 rounds to put a bad guy to sleep has no reason to be carrying a firearm in the first place, and you got a better chance of being hit by lightning then you do of getting in a fire fight with 6 armed attackers.

[@ericamiles666]

Peeps try to downplay da 38 Special. I luv my 38 baby 😸

[@erikwaters4672]

I think I'll stick to 148-grain full wadcutters. Incredibly low recoil, penetration within the FBI protocols . . . and I have a bunch of them. :-)

[@GunSam]

They can be good depending on the brand. I have heard that some of them like the Fiocchi only run at 500 FPS so i'd say no to those, but the Winchester Super-X do more like 700 FPS. If you are serious about Wadcutters though i'd stick to something like Buffalo Bore as they load them very consistently with enough juice to work they way you would expect. They are 148 gr standard pressure hard cast averaging 900 FPS in a 2" snub.

[@erikwaters4672]

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I was given them by a lawyer that was in the deer camp I belong to, nine-ten years ago. Reloads in Remington brass, or just straight Remington factory loads; I don’t know.

[@AlanG6590]

Sucky ammo. And like Mickey Schick the.carrytrainer.still boi