Federal HST (or Gold Dot) is a Waste of Money? 9mm Federal HST VS 9mm Fiocchi Defense Dynamics

[@Brykk]

Gold dot is one of those legend projectiles that you know you can always rely on. Theres been millions of rounds of it fired with almost zero failures that ive ever seen or heard of. Gold dot is a proven performer.

[@GunSam]

CCI primers are what's in them, and we know how good their ignition stuff is with the CCI rimfire ammo.

[@timmartin6410]

When I was working the gun counter, I asked LE what their duty round was, it was always Gold Dot or HST

[@pb68slab18]

PD's buy their ammo in bulk. Sometimes they get ammo in a deal when the dept buys guns for the entire force. Officers do not buy their own.@@timmartin6410

[@pb68slab18]

In how many actual shootings?

[@kentwilliams3326]

Aberdeen Proving Ground Ballistics Division engineers have stated that a minimum sample should be 20. Lucky Gunner Terminal ballistics testing is 5 per each round tested. That is a lot of ballistic gelatin, but it does provide a more representative sample.

[@timowens4071]

At the risk of raising my prices. I've carried the Fiocchi defense dynamics for almost 3 years. It does what is needed.

[@theumpteenthtime8854]

I carried the hst consistently for 5-6 years. My lgs always had them $30 per 50 box of 124gr. Eventually, they went up to $35, then quickly upt to $45. Now, I can't find them for less than $30-35 for a 20 box. On my last mag rotation, I decided to go with the Sig 124gr. At $25 a 50 box, I felt like it was 2017 again. Not the bullet I want, but fairly comparable from what I've seen and far better on the pocketbook.

[@Gsmooth10455]

Do you practice with the HST? Federal HST is my number one choice in all the calibers that I carry. I'm finding it online consistently at $26 to $35 dollars a box depending on the caliber. I recently purchased four boxes of the .40 180 grain at $26.67 a box. This stuff is too valuable to wasting at the range. I recently shot some Remington Golden Sabre non-bonded that I had in my inventory.

[@onpsxmember]

@@Gsmooth10455 Sounds like a classic Hirtenberger Buscadera Ticonda issue.

[@cameronnorton5898]

@@onpsxmember HAHA "I don't wanna shoot my Ticondas."

[@Gsmooth10455]

@@onpsxmember I don't want to shoot my Hirtenbergers either. 🤣😂😄

[@joeyphillips1181]

The Winchester White Box JHP's are the cheapest rounds I've found that work.. these fiocchi's in the video seem to work really good too.. I usually carry the HST's and Gold dots in 124 +p but those 2 are the cheapest I've found for like 50 cents a round.. if you can find those Sig elite performance for 50 cents a round I would go with those

[@yuvgotubekidding]

I’m impressed by Fiocchi here. Held it’s own against HST which is what I consider the most consistent carry round. 👍🇺🇸

[@joeyphillips1181]

Yeah me too wasn't expecting it to do that good

[@Predalien195]

The Fiocchi uses Hornady XTP projectiles which are a very proven and consistent JHP design. It's not a huge shocker. Conduct this test with the factory JHP's from Winchester or Remington and you will see the flaw with a lot of the "It's just as good" crowd.

[@robertlemaster7525]

@@Predalien195 Not all Fiocchi loaded hollow points are XTP's. As a matter of fact these don't really look like XTP's, but you will need the manufacturers number to be sure. They seem to have rolled the XTP's into a Premium line called Hyperformance defense now, as opposed to the defense dynamic line.

[@allenbolen9705]

@@Predalien195 The defense dynamics aren’t XTPs. Fiocchi makes them.

[@allenbolen9705]

@@robertlemaster7525 You are correct the defense dynamics aren’t XTPs. They use XTPs in some of their ammo.

[@homeinthewhiteoaks]

I’m an old guy so I can remember ammo form the 1970’s. The performance gap you are seeing is really amazing! My FOP range was a testing ground for our PD in the 1980’s and “duty” ammo would not reliably expand fired down into 55gal drums of water! Now it’s possible to get reliable bullets in budget ammo. That’s a win for everyone!

[@joey8567]

I look at brand first then what I WANT. How much are you worth. Is what it is. My 10mm hp just ordered again was .87/rd by the case. Same as my 9mm but different brand. Rifles, I don't care. 2$/Rd bulk. Long range. I practice with what I carry. No exceptions.

[@rippertrain]

You made up my mind. Ill take 3,000 rounds of the cheap stuff over 1,000 of HST . great video thumbs up!

[@sosuapimp8449]

FMJ is fine also, killed millions of people in WW1,WW2,Korea,and Vietnam

[@rippertrain]

@@sosuapimp8449 fmj is all i shoot. I have never shot at a person thankfully. I handload fmj for 12 cents a round up here in canada.

[@KingCovfefe]

One of the most systematic approaches to reviews I've seen! Good quantitative data mixed with objective qualitative impressions/ discussion all presented in a very clear format. About to go search your channel for hst vs critical defense, but if you haven't done it that would be an awesome one. Definitely earned a subscription, keep it up!

[@toddjordan9708]

Here are a couple things, 1st I've carried Speer Got Dot professional for years and haven't seen it fail yet. But it's like Ford and Chevy people are going to like what they like, 2nd Gun Sam, your test is your test. I've watched tons of ballistic test vids. Everyone has a different take on real-world tests. your tube is full of vids people can watch, so don't apologize or defend your test. 51.3k subscribers must enjoy your vids like I do so, carry on.

[@GunSam]

Thanks! I have heard other people in LE say that the Gold Dot 124+P expands reliably more often than HST 124+P in non barrier shootings. I have no way of confirming this, but my gut says it's probably true. Not having an actual jacket but rather a thick plating would be easier to expand. I would guess that HST is a bit better for true hard barrier penetration.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Would you guys say that perhaps Rem Golden Saber is a notch down from the likes of Gold Dot and HST?

[@Revolverman38]

I concur , however my department issues and or supplies HST 124gr both are great great rounds 🇺🇸

[@Revolverman38]

@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Both are great , i however give the Nod to the HST i like the 124, 147gr 🇺🇸

[@BuckeyeBallistics]

HST and Gold Dot always perform excellent on bare gel/t-shirt, and decent to good through the denim in my testing depending on caliber, pressure rating, and barrel length. Can't say the same for some "cheaper" hollow points I have tested. Also the sealed primer and bullet are a good point, especially for something that is going to be living in your sweaty waistband...

[@kellyheath6293]

Your testing being valid is a given, in that you consistently test with the same materials and procedure. Your videos are well done and informative. Don’t change a thing….

[@slash19961]

I think for was it is being a budget friendly hollow point it definitely didn't do bad. The HST is probably more consistent if you were to test it multiple times over and I feel across multiple barrel length (3-4-5 inch's ) would perform better . The biggest advantage the fiocchi has is it's price for getting over half a box more of ammo is a big one , I guess it all depends on your outlook , budget and other things Do you wanna practice more with decent to good ammo or practice less with great amazing ammo if your wallets allows. Personally I switch out my hollow points twice a year so running the HSTs aren't a huge deal for me and the peace of mind is worth the price .

[@CampDavid54]

Nice long distance shootin’ Tex ! Thanks for sharing and regards from new Washington.

[@anthonyguidas2012]

Considering the price difference the less expensive ammunition did very well, those wound tracks looked very similar as was the penetration. Definitely good ammo for the money 👍

[@Predalien195]

Well the Fiocchi uses Hornady XTP projectiles. It's a very proven and consistent JHP design no question. However, the XTP in the same battery of tests compared to HST following IWBA protocol as well as hard barrier performance is not as good. Good enough for most people but overall still not as consistent as the HST. It certainly is good ammo for the money and one of the main reasons I buy their ammo for quite a few guns.

[@aliman3229]

Absolutely.

[@craig-hf9gf]

@@Predalien195the fiocchi defense dynamics uses a different projectile. Fiocchi’s “Hyperformance” aka “extrema” are the XTP rounds

[@traviscurtner2679]

I'm a police officer down in Houston, and I carry the 124 plus p in the gold dots as a duty round. I love the HST as well though. Your videos are awesome! And they help guys like me figure out what we want to trust in our duty guns. Keep up the awesome work!

[@MrSymbolic7]

I will pray for you, Houston has turned into a little Chicago in the last 10 years and it isn't going to improve , it will just get worse , after living a hour South of Houston down Hwy.288 for the last 64 years it's a no go for me , I stop at Pearland / Beltway 8 !

[@bensears7499]

I like the sig v crown bullets. You can buy them as components to reload too. God dots are great in 5.56 to reload too.

[@jonathanrogers9961]

Ehhhh, gold dot and hst are proven performers. Over priced, of course! Worth it, also yes.

[@GunSam]

I have found both real cheap though, even now you can get the Gold Dot LE for like $40 for 50 rounds depending on where you shop.

[@Gsmooth10455]

@@GunSam I recently purchased Gold Dot 9mm 124 grain +P for $35.00 online and Federal HST .40 180 grain for $26.67 a box on the same website.

[@SmokeandBurn1]

When you only send the best for self defense. How much is your life worth?

[@nellsonstout7001]

@@SmokeandBurn1this is exactly my rationale

[@joshmartin7558]

​@@GunSam which gold dot would you prefer in a shield plus? I've always carried gold dot but never really thought about the different versions. I usually get the old school 9mm Speer gold dot.

[@mountainhobo]

When it's this hard to tell the difference, for 1/3rd the price, Fiocchi did very well.

[@abengelbrecht]

Great video. If you buy the 50rd packs of HST/Speer they are around $30-$40, and not a lot more expensive to the cheaper JHP. The 20rd boxes is where they really pump up the price. Though the bonding and sealing does help in many scenarios. The challenge with cheaper JHP is inconsistent performance with clothing and other barriers.

[@gsb5w291]

Those rounds haven’t been found at those prices for two years.

[@abengelbrecht]

@@gsb5w291 If you keep an eye out for the LE boxes you can still get it. Just got some 45 ACP +P HST 230gr for $37 a 50rd box. The 9mm HST will be available soon. Prices are coming down.

[@gsb5w291]

@@abengelbrecht are you using ammoseek for best price online or go to your LGS?

[@abengelbrecht]

@@gsb5w291 I usually just order from TargetSportsUSA using my prime membership - LGS typically do not carry the 50rd boxes of HST/Speer, etc

[@Revolverman38]

@@gsb5w291 Agree

[@enrolledregistrar103]

Dude thank you sooo much for this test. I've been wondering about this exact comparison for a while now👍👍👍

[@crankygunreviews]

I love your no nonsense testing. I like “Everyman” type tests like this

[@kpg-uo1tm]

Good test and it doesn't really surprise me. Paul Harrell shows us all of the time that premium ammunition is generally better performing but only slightly. He usually uses 115gr Winchester white box and Remington green box JHPs to demonstrate that.

[@russstockton3784]

I think your mdf test is valid in that it at least shows a round through a different media. The only determining factor in sd ammo is penetration. It enters, decelerates and stops inside the target. A one shot stop is dependent on it. Expansion looks neat but that's the brakes on the projectile. In my view both rounds were nearly identical with nearly ideal penetration to stop a threat without killing the rest of the neighborhood. Great video!

[@duaneridings6591]

Sam you are correct about the real world scenario As for example take a look at your coat--- I would not count on any hollow point opening through that coat and maybe not 90% of others . That 148 grain wad cutter keeps on shining

[@poncho12335]

Excellent shooting at that distance. Just subbed Great testing!!

[@paulkleinkramer5065]

Great test and comparison Sam! My, my that Fiocchi does perform! You mentioned that the higher end defensive loads have sealer factory-applied to the primer pockets and case mouths. This fact should not be underestimated. Over my many years of carry, I have inadvertently sent loaded speed strips and magazines (Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golder Saber and Federal HSTs) through the clothes washer and dryer in my pants pocket. It happens once or twice a year, no matter how hard I try to empty my pockets before my pants go in the wash... I always make it a point to shoot up the bullets in that washed speed strip, or shoot out that magazine within a week or so. If nothing else, it's my way of renewing my carry ammo periodically. Living in a hot summer climate, I also sometimes get a lot of green crud growing around the primers of my carry loads, just from constant contact with sweaty skin. This happens more so with revolvers for sure. Whether it be from sweat or from running through a washer/dryer cycle, I've never had a Good Dot, Golden Saber or HST that didn't fire off as expected. That means something to me. Not sure I could trust the Fiocchi to keep the moisture out long-term. If carrying the Fiocchi or something similar, I would renew it not less than twice a year of daily carry. I would also watch for bullet creep, especially in a semiauto!

[@dangerman007]

The Fiocchi did well. Sometimes the cheap stuff works well (WWB .40 180 grain, Remington HTP 125 grain .38/.357) and that's a good thing. I don't trust a load until I see it go through the MDF or meat target test. I've seen too many cheap rounds fail. I think the point of this is if you are going to bet your life on a round, might as well spend the money.

[@74te27]

The big question is the $1.00 difference per round justifies the difference. I think it's negligible.

[@robertlemaster7525]

Yeah Sam did a GREAT job of selling a bunch of ammo for Fiocchi, even though his conclusion was that the HST was worth the Premium.

[@Z_BoyPanduh]

They’re the same price. $40 for 50 rounds or $32 for 20 rounds. I would still choose HST because in most tests they’re loaded hotter, have better expansion and the same penetration.

[@gunmike6072]

Another great comparison test! Excellent shooting at 75 yards, very impressive, thanks for the video Sam!

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@SigmaSheepdog]

Definitely an informative test. I really like that you use the fiber board in addition to the denim. To my knowledge, nobody else does that and I feel that it gives more of a realistic depiction of bullet performance.

[@clarkcartwright3431]

I sure don’t want you to shot at me at 75 yards that’s some awesome shooting . America needs more people pack n like you and me . Keep up the awesome work

[@allenbolen9705]

Great test! I try to keep a healthy ammo stockpile. I have some of the Fiocchi 124 gr. If I’m going to pay high prices I’m going with Underwood extreme defender 🤠

[@louishuelsman666]

I think it’s perfect with ur MDF and that’s why we watch ur channel,cause of the Truth n Testing of calibers and thanks again for getting the S&W 389 EZ can’t wait to c more of them on it.!.!.!.

[@bartcornelius7717]

Very thorough review. I carry Federal HST 147 in my Glock 48 with 15 round Shield Arms magazines.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

Very good video. You have probably learned this by now but here goes. If you need to pull a bullet that has all sealant or been loaded for years. Your flare die to just bump the bullet down just so it breaks the sealant. Then whack as normal If you want to reload that bullet and want sealant again clear finger nail polish works and a bunch cheaper. Thanks for the work and the time you put in it Take care

[@TheRios7018]

I found some Fiocchi here at a local Atwood’s for 24.99$ picked up two boxes! I’ll carry it! Great video sir👍🏼🤠

[@bigj4223]

Thanks for the comparison of the two. What I got from this is that, cheaper doesn't mean bad. If I can get more rounds without losing performacne, I'm going with cheaper rounds. That's my 2 cents.

[@oldcop18]

The duty ammo for my former PD is Federal Premium LE 147 grain HST for the issued weapon, the Glock 19.

[@Fudmottin]

That was some excellent shooting. What I will give to the HST is that with the sealant, it's going to resist sweat and stuff much better for people who just load up and never shoot it. The Fiocchi brand is not bad. I use it for practice ammo in 357 Magnum. The 142gr certainly lets you know you've launched something.

[@GunSam]

Thanks! I shot the 142 gr from a snub no ear protection before.

[@Fudmottin]

@@GunSam I'll bet you regretted that instantly. I once shot an old school 158gr LSWC UMC yellow box from my 6" Taurus and my hearing was instantly muffled for a while. The Fiocchi 142gr FMJ is loaded hotter than that.

[@jimbienkowski7857]

@@Fudmottin I miss that Yellow box LSWC load. Shot a ton of that back in the early 90's

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Right off the Fiocchi website "about us" page: "Fiocchi was founded in 1876 in Lecco Italy and has been producing high quality ammunition ever since. In the 1950s, Fiocchi began importing ammunition into the United States and by the 1980s demand had grown and the decision was made to build a manufacturing facility in the US to help service the US market. "In 1983 a site in Ozark, Missouri was chosen, right in the heart of America, and a facility was built on a former dairy farm. Since then we have continued to grow and expand, currently employing nearly 200 hardworking Americans to produce some of the highest quality shotshell and centerfire ammunition available. While the company still has roots in Italy and receive a portion of our products from our facility in Lecco, around 80% of Fiocchi brand products that are sold in the US market are loaded right here in Ozark or in our new facility near Little Rock, Arkansas. "While we continue to grow, we remain true to both our Italian and American heritage and lineage and will continue to focus on quality craftsmanship, innovation, and unequaled customer service for many years to come." ----------------------- Fiocchi also sponsors and provides ammo for Jerry Miculek's three-gun competition.

[@Fudmottin]

@@jimbienkowski7857 Me too. Cheap blasting ammo. Although cleaning the lead out of the bore was no fun.

[@pauldunecat]

Throwing so many rounds down range like you do really shows the value.

[@doghousedon1]

One can get HSTs today for 55 cents per. What did you say his complaint was?

[@noName-q6n9b]

I see a lot of newer shooters do this, buy the 20 round rip off boxes. here they seem to be glassing over the fact the HST also come in 50 round boxes at a highly discounted price. And if we want a better comparison to Fiochi, Federal 9MS "classic" JHP are like 32 cents per round. Fiochi is expensive!

[@JJoker69]

Appreciate the comparison Brother, be safe and take care

[@abeazar]

Thanks for a great video demonstration on the Fiocchi Ammo.

[@Shannon_Lacey]

Good test Sam. Good shooting at distance. During scarcity or extreme price inflation, the cheaper Fiocchi is definitely an option. But you are right, I’d stick with the proven HST since it has a slight edge over the cheaper stuff, even if it costs three times as much at present.

[@clintwestwood1895]

I agree about the sealant and in particular the Nickel-plated brass is a must for me because I love smooth feeding, in fact it might be a bit obsessive but I "polish" my personal carry rounds to a perfect smoothed uniform shine and texture to ensure feed reliability. The little extra steps are worth your Life in my view.

[@dannyb9140]

Thought I was the only one who polishes his carry rounds. Lol.

[@lesliewoinarowicz7018]

@@dannyb9140OCD

[@CarolinaRimfire]

At a time when people are carrying 10 or 12 rounds of 9mm plus an extra mag of 10-12 rounds, it becomes expensive to test, practice with, and carry these premium hollow points. I love Winchester white box stuff because I can buy enough to test and carry for like $30, and it's probably enough to get the job done. Thanks for the test!!!

[@jimmypavone3231]

Same here

[@robertseafield5810]

Good info on the bullet puller. The semi auto ammo is meant to make one trip up the ramp. Some of the cheaper ammo is made with the XTP bullet. I think this is a safe bet especially in +P. Thanks for making this great video.

[@geraldshrewsbury3121]

in my simple water jug tests Winchester white box (wwb) hollow point ammo seemed to work just as well as the expensive brands.

[@lesliewoinarowicz7018]

If you get attacked by water jugs , I think you are just fine.

[@jgadventures4161]

Appreciate this video the difference is negligible i picked up these fiocchi today to practice with and they are laser accurate in my M&P so going to switch to them for good

[@dreadnought4613]

Thank you SO MUCH for this video! I picked up some Defense Dynamics a while back, and have been wondering how it performed. Normally, I'm an HST guy myself, but this video made me feel better about the F-DD. Any chance you could compare 45/230 Standard Defense Dynamics against 45/230 Standard HST? Would love to see that one also! Thanks! Great video!

[@elblancobasura]

Oh yeah...

[@dcar335i]

Enjoy your video's and the time you take putting them together.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

Glad you pointed out the primer sealer. A lot of people know nothing about that. Federal and speer (owned by Federal) make great quality, reliable ammo. For depending on for you life, I'll spend the money. Practice with cheap stuff.

[@ladonnaghareeb4609]

Thank you. Appreciate the honest assessment.

[@richardefriend]

Practice with the Fiocchi, but carry the HST in your defense pistols.

[@357magstreet9]

thanks for doing these tests, very impressed with Fiocchi, never carried but for 55 cents a round ill definitely stock up!

[@robertlemaster7525]

Hell yeah! That Non-XTP Fiocchi went toe to toe with the HST!!!

[@MAG-li5jo]

I have Buffalo Bore, Underwood and Hornady Critical Defense stacked on the shelf because I prefer to keep my 357 Mags loaded with the much cheaper Remington UMC semi jacketed hollow point rounds. I recall you saying it was a round that modern ammo still couldn't beat. From everything I have seen I agree completely. That said, I do agree with your very points concerning why you would still prefer the HST here. If the new stuff came in a semi jacketed hollow point round I might load with something different. I wish Buffalo Bore or someone make something like that.

[@natjonestower3035]

Surprised the Fiocchi did so well. They do make some decent range ammo, but some of their other stuff, particularly revolver ammo, seems pretty weak and occasionally has accuracy issues. But these rounds seem like a valid choice. Doesn't quite match the HST's, but not much does.

[@GunSam]

Yeah, they have some okay revolver ammo with the SJHP nose, I think 148 gr that is decent. But their regular JHP is a bit disappointing.

[@doomedwit1010]

I'm reminded of an old liquor commercial for the premium brand of a tequila: "If you notice the price difference, you drink too much." That's how I feel about self defense ammo.

[@ditchdigger93]

I've always been a fan of the HST's, but I think you just sold a lot of Fiocchi ammo with that test. Held its own pretty well I'd say.

[@CeltKnight]

I'm a fan of the 124 gr HST and that's what's in any of my 9x19s that aren't loaded with Federal 9 BPLE (old habits die hard, LOL). My Walther P99, for instance, has had a steady diet of HST and likes it. In this test the Federal seemed to be a tiny bit more consistent with Fiocchi. The only surprise for me was that the Fiocchi was that consistent. I'm not knocking the brand, I use it in several guns (especially .25, .32, and such) and I find it to be good ammo, just maybe not quite up to Federal's quality. Of course it's significantly cheaper (usually) so you get lower cost with only slightly lower quality. I think I might consider Fiocchi as spare ammo -- something to stock up on when it's a lot cheaper than what's available or if HSTs aren't in stock. Great shooting, BTW. The accidental double-tap was quite impressive with the center hit followed by the head shot. LOL ... I'll be most of your critics can't pull that off. :)

[@Kelly-oq9nh]

Don’t know if you get recent comment, Sam, but this is a reminder to me of how much you struggled with your health a year ago. So glad you were better now. Keep up the great work !

[@Kelly-oq9nh]

Voice text… Please ignore grammar

[@gradybird3336]

I always appreciate your videos, the work you put in, and the solid info you provide. I'm a subscriber and happy to be one! But man, I always cringe when I see guntube testers use a beautiful sharp knife point to dig bullets out of anything but gel. Ouch! 😖 Surely a cheap awl or screwdriver would do the trick.

[@Harold16785]

That doesn't surprise me. A lot of times the more expensive/better ammo isn't much better, if at all. Good video.

[@Steve_10-31]

Thanks for making these videos . We appreciate the effort it must take with your arthritis and fatigue.

[@georgeveneziano2754]

Fine shooting Sam really liked the vid both seemed pretty close.

[@davidlee8551]

Excellent tests! Thank you.

[@troy9477]

Have only used Fiocchi as practice ammo. They have some good loads, with sometimes offball bullet weights (like a 142 gr LRN in 38 Spl). I can vouch for the 170 gr 40. It is truncated, almost a flat nose. Years ago ny former agency sent 2 guys to SWAT school. They were having problems with their Glop 22's. They blamed the ammo (shortly after this, the info about the Glop mag problems came to light). So the sgt gave me most of a case to get rid of it. My XD40 especially loved it, and my P229 shot it well also. That was when i really started to like the XD, had had it for a year or so and was breaking it in. I liked it so much it became my upstairs housegun, with a very compact Streamlight light which was exactly contoured to the gun, and a Pachmayr Grip Glove. Only reason I didn't make it my duty gun was i am a dyed in the wool Sig guy, i was well experienced with the 229, and I didn't feel like buying another holster and trying to find one which would accommodate the light. When i move to a free state i will get an XDM in 10mm😁

[@dukeman7595]

Much tighter group with the HST at 75 yards, however, I was impressed with the Fiocchi's performance. You're a fine shot, not many guys can hit at 75 yards as well as you did.

[@Batko10]

I use Federal HST 165 grain, .40 cal hollow points with my GLOCK22. To each his own. I'll go with Federal HST. This guy can go with his cut rate ammo. BTW, I pay $35 per 50 round box which comes out to 70 cents per round for .40 ca HST. This guy got ripped off at $1.50 per round for 9mm HST. He should check other ammo dealers.

[@ezekielmajor5511]

I have been carrrying Gold Dots for years. One of the best rounds out there IMO.

[@aliman3229]

Thanks for the hard work Sam, much appreciated. The top tier ammo gives advantages but not massive advantages. However every little advantage is more than worth it when your life is at steak.

[@pauljcomp6621]

stake

[@allenbolen9705]

I just found some Markron custom bullet & primer sealer. I can seal all my defense ammunition! Federal is the only ones that have sealed primers out of all my defense ammunition. I have 7 different kinds planning to seal them all.

[@sombra6153]

In 9mm I try try to stay with Gold Dot, HST, or Critical Duty, all preferably 124 grain +P. I don’t have any issues with 147, Rangers, or Golden Saber, just personal preference and experience. I was provided with some imported brand 124 grain HP a while back. I wasn’t sure how it would perform and the only thing I could find was a KZbin video in 2017 showing how it zipped through a couple gel blocks and maybe a water jug and the bullet was not recovered. Not using that stuff for anything more than training. Do you have to use premium ammo? Probably not. Should you do some due diligence - at least see how others have fared testing the more generic stuff? Yes. And remember there are things like Federal 9BP or Remington or Winchester HPs that are not cutting edge technology anymore but are still respectable quality and aren’t as expensive as the premium stuff. And of course shot placement always makes the difference if a steel plate rings and shudders or doesn’t.

[@joshmartin7558]

When someone says something like "I buy the cheapest ammo I can find", you already know they don't know what in the hell they're talking about. There is alot of science and testing that goes in to defense ammunition. The budget stuff goes bang and will get the job done, but keep in mind, your life is depending on the ammo. Spend the extra couple bucks

[@jimjustice581]

Nice shooting, strangler… I mean stranger. You put a bunch of those on target from a distance. Thanks for this video.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

In my experience 124gr +p gold dots don't expand at 100yds, 124gr +p HST does. Standard pressure federal punch expands at 100yds too, I got a feral hog with one from a g19. It would be interesting if you did some 100yd gel tests with JHP. Stand up 2 blocks of gel and put one behind the other, you'd get 12" of ballistics gel combined and it's a target you can hit.

[@GunSam]

If I ever did that type of thing, personally I think it makes more sense to find the ballistics charts of these loads, then hand load some ammo to the 100 yard velocity but at the muzzle.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

@@GunSam I think handloading would be a better option especially since all the twist rates for handguns are the same; it's a different story for rifles though. You could try to use the shortest barrel length and shoot from 50yds with factory loads, that's the closest I've found to match 100yd ballistics.

[@BLACKWOLF-1911]

Do they expand at 3 to 5 yards? Let's face it, your not shooting a bad guy at 100yrds.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

@@BLACKWOLF-1911 I shoot game with my handgun at far distances, but your logic is no excuse for lack of proficiency. Bad guys have been shot at distances 75yds+ with a handgun from both civilians and LEO. Have you ever gone into a large supermarket like Walmart, Target, etc? There are lanes in those stores that go out to 200yds. Assume a bad guy comes in while you're shopping with a rifle, the standard distance for a rifle zero is 200yds. They would have no problem shooting out that far and you would have no means to defend yourself effectively because you had never shot that far before (even though handguns are lethal out to that distance).

[@LarryeWhite61]

@@SuspiciousGanymede "Possibilities vs Probabilities" your not gonna get shot and killed at 200 yards in WallyWorld or Target.

[@TooManyChoices1]

I don’t carry 9mm (.40 S&W for the win 🥇!), but if I did, I have HST 124gr +P for the 396ft-lbs of energy it produces.

[@DanTheWolfman]

Are you me?

[@Brykk]

Always good to see other 40 cal guys/gals

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@Brykk I just switched Did 3 vids on .40

[@DinoNucci]

40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@DinoNucci I like that. Stolen

[@Brook2400]

Very impressed with your shooting at 75 yards! Nice!!

[@duke927]

About half of the ballistic gel tests I see on KZbin with gold dots in 9mm and some HST’s the HP fails to expand. Almost all 380 HP’s either fail to expand or sub par penetration if they do. Federal HST’s are probably the best overall for 9mm with more ballistic success than others. Paul Harrel did some tests with WWB HP’s and they performed well.

[@jeffhanson2621]

Very informative video. And you're a damn good shot👍

[@GunSam]

Thanks

[@louishuelsman666]

Another gr8 video and I’ve learned so much from u n can c you learning so new stuff at times 2!!! TY GunSam!!! Did you c Paul H gave ya a shout out!!!!! That’s telling ya all u need to know on the job ur doin on videos .!.!.

[@ericblomquist1975]

This was a great video. Learned a lot.

[@crankybuzzard6867]

always enjoy your videos! Yes, I am a HST guy!!

[@texasbeast239]

Fiocchi is fine starter defensive ammo. HST is great premium defensive ammo.

[@GunSam]

The great thing is with these two specifically, in all practical ways it all shot the same. Having a $30 box of target hollow points in the same power range and accuracy as your carry ammo (HST) is better than the $20 box of FMJ that is 100 FPS slower than the HST and can never really simulate the good ammo you carry.

[@Covert_Arrangements]

So it turns out that Fiocchi was no Jokey! :)

[@carlosbonefontphd2591]

Thanks for sharing your great informative video.

[@waynedavis7245]

I believe that the ndf test is valid. Keep up the great videos.

[@tipsovr2626]

Biggest difference I noticed was it looked like the Fiocchi has a lot less energy hitting the steel at 75 yrds. The HST strikes were much more pronounced both physically and audibly. Also, the HST looked to hold a little better group at the 75. I'd like to see the same test out of a 9mm PCC. That would be pretty interesting.

[@CREATEDBYDUSTINTODUSTYOURETURN]

Nah your bias.... Fiocchi did just as good, can tell that much of a sound difference at all

[@ibpositivemostly7437]

Very interesting I wouldn’t mind seeing more of this kind of testing.

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

Great testing as always Gun Sam! Maybe do a cheap hollowpoint comparison like Win White Box and Rem UMC sometime? A while back Tools and Targets tested cheap Winchester WB and Remington UMC against each other in 9mm 115gr. in gel and chronoed them. He also tested 9mm Remington UMC alone in another video. In each it performed very well for an inexpensive HP ammo. Winchester WB did as well. I would love to see if your testing results would be similar to his for UMC and Win WB. I know you can buy Rem UMC in HP and in FMJs and many say they hit the same point of impact in their pistol. I haven't tested this myself but hope to sometime. Its good to know we have options for the frugal tight arse and the poor working man shooters. I keep both as well as my high $ nickel plated sealed big brand name ammo. But I shoot a lot more Rem UMC than anything in 9mm. I do like Atomic Ammunition and their nickel plated hollowpoint ammo in 380, they only offer +P and 147gr subsonic in 9mm tho.

[@mikehenthorn1778]

About your target, it is cheaper than the meat target. But you don't have ribs to Bar-B-Q afterwards

[@44hawk28]

If you buy ammo that doesn't have a sealant you can seal it yourself. You mix rubbing alcohol with some nail polish and then you apply it to the edge of the primer and wipe it off and you can apply it to the edge of the projectile. Wait a few seconds and then wipe it off it will get into the fit far enough to perform a seal. The other advantage that you didn't mention about a sealed projectile is that it helps stabilize the pressure curve, which is kind of critical in a 9 mm. Because it's such a small case the pressure curve is extremely abrupt. Except in rounds that easily leave the case. Making consistent velocity more difficult. I would like to point out that Fiocchi is not cheap ammo. The reason it has a lower price point is because of the US dollar against the Euro allows you to have better purchasing power with a dollar for that ammo than from its home country.

[@lens7859]

The Fiocchi did really well, I would carry it

[@joemangum3615]

So if fioochi hits in the same place and does almost as good why not shoot fioochi to train for your hst and maybe hunt animals with and use the HST only for self defense carry guns!?

[@jeffwilliams8277]

That would be a good test. Different ammo can have significant difference in impact.

[@LDR1100RS]

I recently purchased standard pressure 124 grain HST for $.85 a round. Sam...that is some fine, fine shooting at 75 yards. HST is super accurate in your Smith. This Fiocchi load is impressive.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. This particular M&P is pretty accurate with everything. What it is, is partially the trigger as it's hinged. With my revolver power crease style, the blade safeties always throw me off, the M&P hinged trigger allows me to shot however I feel like it with no problems.

[@johnforse2004]

I'm lucky when it comes to being able to afford high end defense rounds. Gold dot 200 grain +p in my Glock 21 5th gen for home. And Glock 19 with HST 124 grain +p for carry. I love the nickel plated rounds....easy to find in the dark if you needed too. The GD 200 JHP 45ACP REALLY TEARS LARGE cavitys in a raw 12 pound turkey I was testing it on. Same for 9 mm 124 grain JHP HST rounds in my Glock 19. Could only afford 1 turkey at the Grocery store, but I was wanting to see the effects both rounds would have. Plus , I always buy in bulk. The only way to go.

[@CampDavid54]

“Somehow I still hit it” Nice shootin Tex

[@mgsharnhorst]

Sealant is cheap and easy to apply. I apply sealant to all my carry ammo (and hunting ammo). If they perform the same, get the cheaper ammo (in my opinion). Fiocchi is quality ammo.

[@stretchman490]

The reason HST is so much better of a round is consistency, in all scenarios. Critical Duty is another round designed for pretty much the same reasons. But, if all you can get is the Fiocchi, you could do worse. HST is professional grade ammo, and we, the average user, pay more of a premium for it than Law Enforcement, due to special pricing and availability. It's those little added upgrades like the sealed nickel cases that make it important for the professional user. But for the average person, Fiocchi works pretty good, for a home defense gun, or one that lives in the glove box, or one that's carried concealed and shielded from the elements. So, in the tests, HST performed as expected, and Fiocchi held it's own. Not an indictment of the HST, but a praise for the Fiocchi.

[@W1ldt1m]

Fiocchi tends to load Hornady xtp bullets in their defensive ammo. That looks like what we have here. It's a quality bullet with a decent loading for a budget price. I think of it as last generation ammo no longer the best on the market butbfar more advanced than Remington green box.

[@jesseboutdoors]

I would take the federal over any cheaper round. I’m sure federal has done way more testing and research which shows in the price of it.

[@GunSam]

They fulfill law enforcement contracts, so the quality and reliability must be there. I don't know of any departments that use Fiocchi, maybe in Mexico or something lol

[@DanTheWolfman]

Actually surprised a bit how decent the fiochi did. They had a 115 that just frags and 124 xtps do good guess this is a newer bullet

[@GunSam]

I purchased from Midwayusa as the shooting dynamics ammo, but what I received said defense dynamics on the box, so I am guessing it's the same ammo but they have been updating their logos lately from the blue and red boxes to the black silver and yellow boxes with different names. Both say SKU: 9APBHP on the box.