Does FMJ Ammo REALLY Over-Penetrate? .45 ACP, 10mm and .44 Special Ballistic Test

I hear it said a lot that full metal jacket ammunition (FMJ, TMJ, Ball) will over-penetrate the intended target (bad-guy, criminal etc) when a firearm is used in self defense against them. I also know that the FBI and IWBA have set standards that around 18" of ballistics gel is the maximum you want to penetrate to insure your ammo does not over-penetrate. Well what if it does? That's my test today, trying to make bullets go through equivalent to 20" of 10% ballistics gel and then get a chronograph read on the other side, while using .45 ACP, .44 Special and 10mm from duty sized guns. I also have made an "innocent bystander" made of ballistics gel and MDF (bone) to see if FMJ ammo does indeed have enough power after exiting a person, to kill an innocent bystander. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/search?q=gun+sam
As promised, the link I mention with 9mm FMJ: • FMJ Always Overpenetra...

[@GunSam]

As promised, the link I mention with 9mm FMJ: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXyan3eDratmj5o

[@joemorganeatmyshortschannel]

very cool i think you figured out and documented why the old timers stuck with heavy bullets in revolver rounds with a lead round nose

[@chrish.4067]

You're getting more creative. This is very interesting!

[@357-swagnumultramagax9]

@@lestergillis8171 please get help .

[@TheKhanhhoa]

@@chrish.4067 my thoughts as well

[@avshockey6633]

I understand the concern about pass throughs, but I would be a lot more worried about missing the intended target and directly hitting a bystander, than hitting a bystander with a pass through. It would be interesting to see a study on how often people are actually hit by pass throughs. I would bet it's pretty rare.

[@kennethrisner8648]

This is what I mean by I have yet, and 2 years later I might add, to see any proof.

[@iankelly3479]

A pass through hitting an innocent bystander is almost nonexistent. In actual use of force incidents. People are not ballistic gel. There are bones and tendons and muscles. Acting on the path of the bullet, causing instability, deformation, and possibly fragmentation. Not to mention, people generally don't run into or tword gun fire. Over penitration can occur. However, it's grossly overrepresented in the use of force theory. Missing your intended target and killing or injuring a bystander is much more likely. In the heat of the moment, it's probably not a good idea to shoot an attacker that's not very near you. The attacker will try and avoid getting shot. You could miss several times even if they are very close. The criminal will be moving. A contact shot, however, won't miss and could be angled downward.

[@ravenrise320]

I doubt anyone has done a definitive study on the subject. But. I know of at least two instances of pass throughs hitting and, in one case, killing someone. One case I read about in a police oriented magazine was recorded back in the earliest days of police transitioning to 9mm Glock semi-autos in NY. Two NYPD officiers engaged an armed robber in an alleyway at such close range. That bullets passing through the "perp" struck and seriously injured one of the officiers. Another instance was related to me from a good friend of mine who I trust, who served in Iraq. He personally witnessed a fellow soldier get hit by a pass through 5.56 "green tip" hit on an Iraqi insurgent inside a house. Bullet passed through the Iraqi's torso and struck another soldier in the throat and exited out the back of his skull. Soldier was DRT. Iraqi lived to get medical evaced and was, according to him, later turned over to Army Intel for questioning some time later after surgery. So yes. Pass throughs DO happen, and people can damn sure be harmed or killed by them. It's just that police shootings are usually closely guarded and investigated affairs, and most of the public seldom, if ever, hears a lot of detail about such inquiries....let alone is able to record them in a statistical fashion as to whether or not an officier or civilian got hit by pass through bullets. And in the military? Such things fade into invisibility in the" fog of war". A place where dead is just...dead....and the method of death matters less to anyone immediately concerned inasmuch as the fact that their friend, an ally, or enemy, is killed by ANY thing. Therefore, such things are even LESS likely to ever be recorded.

[@williammccaslin8527]

FMJ's are good for head shots, on 2 legged an 4 legged critters, thx for the vid.

[@sleeper.simulant7327]

FMJ flat points, round ball ammo is notorious for deflecting

[@jehovahuponyou]

@@sleeper.simulant7327 IN THIS DAY AND AGE OF DEEVOLUTION OF THE HUMAN RACE, WHERE PEOPLE ARE BORN WITH 5" THICK SKULLS, YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheTruth-sd8ey]

@@sleeper.simulant7327 flat nose bullets (fpj) (like .40 or 10mm) is a totally different thing that round nose (like in 9×19 fmj). Latter are indeed known for deflecting, but not flat points.

[@sleeper.simulant7327]

@@jehovahuponyou I don’t use FMJ’s for defense, that’s for hollow points. In the woods I carry flat nose FMJ’s

[@sleeper.simulant7327]

@@TheTruth-sd8ey I’m very aware that flat points tend to hold true against barries, and are also superior in terms of barrier penetration, specifically mono metal or hardcast. Ball ammo out of a 9mm or 45 isn’t the greatest for barrier penetration. Read an article where a guy attempted to use his 45 ACP on an elk that spined. Not one ball ammo round penetrated the rib cage, every single one deflected. Long story short he finished it off with his rifle. I wouldn’t trust a 45 with ball ammo in the woods after reading that…

[@Predalien195]

Results aren't too surprising. I recall an interview with Larry Vickers where he was was asked about 9mm or .45, he said if body armor is not in play and it's FMJ only, .45 ACP hands down. 230gr Ball does quite well even with little or no expansion. The .44 Special surprised me a bit by going a tad deeper but given how JHP's tend not to expand much at all in those shorter barrels I'm not totally shocked. The .44 Russian is what really surprised me. I've seen it's ballistics on paper but rarely any actual tests. I'd feel perfectly armed with one of those today based on what I saw. The 10mm going as deep as it did shouldn't shock anybody as you always hear how 10mm over penetrates and so forth. Excellent video as usual.

[@willo7734]

These over penetration videos might be your best work. Interesting results and I haven’t seen this done this thoroughly before.

[@joshuagibson2520]

Awesome! Glad to see you got readings after the pass through! All very interesting data for all calibers.

[@danoneill2846]

The 45 acp HP moved the block More than any other round . It may not have gone too deep , I think it would have made the largest hole . This is how they can fail to go " deep enough " but do far better than the ones that did go deep enough .

[@theone031]

I dont care what the so called gun guru's say 45auto is not the same as 9mm. I hear that all the time about caliber doesn't matter it's where you place the shot! Horse sh*t!

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@theone031 If you've probably noticed, those who say that about the 9mm are deeply enthusiastic, subjective, and fanatical about the 9mm and therefore their emotions matter more than facts.

[@jmurphy68463]

@@theone031 In the USMC I've seen guys take 15+ rounds of 9mm in the chest and keep coming. I've also seen guys take one or two rounds of .45 in the chest and drop dead. I've never trusted 9mm.

[@ryanranard5187]

9mm, 40 s&w & 45 auto roughly perform the same. The energy of each of the rounds are roughly the same. 9mm hardball sucks just like 45 hardball sucks. Compared to HPs.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@@ryanranard5187 "perform roughly the same" "energy of each...roughly the same" You're simply not saying anything. Ballistics is not a simple subject, no matter how many one-liners the internet spews out.

[@cirocundin]

Sam, have you considered the effects of 45auto with different meplat profiles? I would be curious to examine FP FMJ terminal effects. Applications in the past have been documented, NYC police and others, where FP ammo in 45 auto was a go to choice. Best

[@eddiel7033]

The ballistic bystander returns!

[@joshuagibson2520]

Thanks Sam. Always doing your part to try and quench my isatiable thirst for facts, good testing procedures, and overall knowledge. You're much appreciated my friend.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@toolmakerbest1584]

This video is going into my mental list of favorite top 10 from you, and the bar is very high! Great job! 👍

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@knobjob2839]

Interesting results. Cool tests too. The chronograph behind the gel was a good idea 👍

[@addytuney2028]

Great info Sam and capturing those two spinning bullets on video is amazing!!! thank you!

[@GunSam]

Thanks.

[@dirtpitoutdoors2045]

As always! Great video brother!

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@jmurphy68463]

If I hadn't seen it for myself I probably never would have believed it. When I was in the Marine Corps I witnessed the devastation of a .45 ACP full metal jacket. I watched a man get hit as the round passed completely through him and completely through the guy behind him and into a third guy that was behind him. It can be done. By the way, all my .45 hollow point defensive rounds are 230 grains. I will never trust a .45 bullet that's not at least 230 grains.

[@hawkboy1792]

Lol

[@sctm81]

Did it stop all 3 guys on the first round?

[@RJ-rf8fu]

Really late reply, and just a theory, but I'm thinking that issue ammo might be loaded a bit hotter than plinking ammo.

[@TheKhanhhoa]

hey John, thanks for the info about the pass through on the 3 of our brothers. Thank you for standing tall when our country needed you.....just an old nam vet.....RESPECT

[@jmurphy68463]

@@TheKhanhhoa Semper Fi, brother.

[@kingarthur5655]

I think this was a very informative video. Thank you for that. Something else I think is worth mentioning is how those bullets changed direction when exiting the media. We are taught to look at the target and what is beyond the target. This video makes me think that there is more unpredictability on a pass through than we are led to believe. This really sheds light on the absolute necessity for quality hollow point or frangible rounds in your EDC. Amazing video!

[@theone031]

Great video. Knocked it out of the park with this one! Kudos

[@GunSam]

Thank you. And who else but me would throw .44 in there? lol

[@talon2pro]

Sam, I bet the FBI will start using YOUR tests as their standards! As usual, another quantitative measure of information. Great job! Also, gotta love a .45 auto.

[@samwalker1461]

All fall to ball!!!!!!

[@ariesmight6978]

Talon2pro Without a dought!

[@ariesmight6978]

@@samwalker1461 We do not worship evil!

[@tiltedflip4491]

That was awesome getting the chrono pass through readings!

[@louishuelsman4510]

Gr8 video and awesome info,Glad the sub count is getting up there I remember when there was less then 10 of us no ur Paul Harrell JR!!!! TY for ur time!!

[@factsoftheconfederacy7151]

.45 ACP is underrated today

[@totallyfrozen]

Amen! People consider it “old” so it must be obsolete. Let’s forget that it won 2 world wars and many other military conflicts.

[@NoTimeForThatNow]

@@totallyfrozen facts that cant be denied have no expiration date.

[@TheRealZJE313]

Yes they underestimate that 230grain hunk of metal just because the velocity is that high.

[@357-swagnumultramagax9]

I see old timers at my gun range all with 45 1911s and that’s enough proof for me , I think they’re veterans too since I live close to a marine base .

[@filianablanxart8305]

Underrated ? Even amongst 9mm fans , few if any will claim that .45acp is ineffective . Their counterargument is that latest generation 9mn ammo is almost as good as .45 , but higher capacity, and easier for inexperienced shooters to shoot accurately combine to make 9mm a good choice for a pistol averaged out .

[@alexandertoshich765]

Very interesting information. Keep up the awesome videos.

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@Ds_Drums]

Great vid! Thanks for posting. I specifically was interested in the 45 since I use that frequently. Interesting information.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@jamesmutz7435]

Great information and well presented. Thanks for putting this out there for us.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@charlesirby9222]

Over the top again Sam...such creativity with the gel blocks! Whether or not you get penetration on the innocent bystander is beside the point...Your going to have a law suit on your hands. If we see a consistent exit of the perp...I would have pause using that round.

[@ratagris21]

Great testing Sam. Thank you for all you do. Proves quite a bit about over penetration in the 4s.. ♠️☯️🎩

[@carloparisi9945]

That 45 acp load is impressive, in a 2" 1917 colt it would make for an outstanding Applegate special.

[@johngalt6929]

Thanks for posting that interesting information!

[@bobcatforever3485]

Good video. Thanks for all the work you put into these video. Take care.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@hachogonzalez8649]

Im just curious - how many pople are killed by a bullet from a gun due to over penetration each year? Great vid btw - all your stuff are top notch !

[@GunSam]

Thanks. Probably none or single digit. But it's good to take a look at the science behind it, no pun intended.

[@totallyfrozen]

Honestly, I have really heard of any. I think the issue is law suits and criminal charges. If your round over penetrates and hit someone, they’re likely to sue you into poverty.

[@keithgraham9547]

You hear about kids and bystanders shot all the time, like Chicago every week. Who knows how many are grazes of the intended target, then the bullet passes through walls. In Louisville in the Breanna Taylor case, cops were fuck ups. They got a no-knock warrant for an apartment their perp hadn't lived in for almost a year or more. The boyfriend, licensed CCW holder, thought it was a home invasion and fired. Cops are shooting unarmed, blindly, through doors and walls, killed the girl who was in bed. (EMT for the city.) Shots went into neighboring apartment. The state law shielded the cops from having killed her and wounding the boyfriend, but were charged with I believe wanton endangerment of people in the other apartment. You probably don't get a lot of "it went through the entire body and kept on going hot." Your big danger is in grace wounds or a less than solid hit, and it keeps going. Or, you miss and it goes through walls and hits someone. I think all the CCW carriers who want "the most powerful round ever made" are dumbasses. You don't need that; you endanger bystanders which may include your family; you are NOT law enforcement; and you have no immunity from "oops." IMO, using the FBI standard for self-defense use is incorrect. Your job is defend and break contact if feasible, not shoot it out with armored hordes of perps. Just my opinion

[@davidcunningham6856]

This review gave us definitive answers to very important questions. Great work! Love those big boy rounds, thanks!

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@joshuabriggs7114]

Very informative Sam!

[@NoTimeForThatNow]

I would have thought the lead roundnose would have deformed a bit, that was surprising to me. Man, with the volume of great videos and level of detail and quality information you put into your videos, it is difficult to say one or another is the best. But this video has to be a top contender for that title!

[@filianablanxart8305]

Not really . A RN at those velocities ( with modern era alloys ) will have minimal deformation . If you Want deformation on purpose , you would need to cast with a very soft binary Lead- Tin alloy of 1:30 , or even 1:40 .

[@NoTimeForThatNow]

@@filianablanxart8305 uhh... forgive me for being surprised, I guess?

[@frederickwezzeroth2611]

Excellent video!!!

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@matt5415]

I’m an insurance examiner so I know how litigious people are. I think just bouncing an over-penetrating bullet off an innocent bystander will get you sued. Not saying you’d lose the case, but it would suck tremendously to have to go to court. I say hollow points are totally necessary for concealed carry purposes.

[@ajopasoij9d00]

FBI data shows about 30% hollow points do not expand at all which means, most likely, overpenetration. So yeah just let the criminal kill you, if you end up defending yourself you might get sued

[@Subtlenimbus]

Or you could look at it this way: The probability of missing entirely is greater than over-penetrating and hitting someone else behind your target, so would you rather hit a bystander with a hollow point or an fmj? And then of course, there is the very high failure rate of hollow points in actual shootings that RobertoMatos mentioned, and most expanding ammo is loaded hotter than fmj, so the over penetration would be even worse.

[@sstritmatter2158]

I wouldn't risk it with fmj ball. Good test and interesting. I'm grateful you also threw in .44 spl - it's a very under-rated round. I have a .44 mag Taurus for my woods gun and doubles as a night stand home defense gun using .44spl jacketed hp. This test confirms my decision - I'm glad to see what it does as it's not often used in demonstration videos. I'll also add it's extremely accurate. I can put 3 shots in 2" or less groups at 7 yards double action. Currently running Hornady Home Defense at 165 gr hp but I'm interested in the 200 gr gold dot Underwood you used. I'll try them. Thanks again for a great video.

[@chrisshoopman7880]

Nice test results.

[@tldnr]

Hey highlighted path trajectory is really smart. Cool idea great vid.

[@GunSam]

Hey, thanks!

[@civhonbmm3]

Great video I guess that but you did check the recording later And seen that the ammo shot after was affecting the penetration In which also deflected took away this is a great video thank for the time 😌

[@KNiteshft]

Sam your editing in this video is great. I say +2 it was better than a +1. Yehaa from East TN

[@user-oy9zy4ds9m]

I love how you measured velocity after pass through the gel. I think that’s tells us most conclusively lethality after pass through

[@ChuckTruitt]

Great!!! You make such great videos. I really enjoy your stuff. -Gunny T sends

[@jameslogan6127]

Great video exactly what I’ve been wondering about. I carry my M&P 2.0 in my truck with FMJ so now I’ll make sure I have at least one magazine of Speer Gold Dot. Frankly, I’m surprised I’m basically a novice shooter and worried less about over penetration and more concerned with bullet just passing through with minimal damage - although the vehicle carry is because I’m thinking I might have to shoot through medal or glass or whatever 🤔 Anyway you’ve given me a lot to think about. Very cool video by the way. Still I missed that bologna pack 😃

[@filianablanxart8305]

Among the fairly small subset of knowledgeable people who at least occasionally consider the concept of on purpose having mags on hand with different ammo for different purposes, the overwhelming practice is for expanding ammo in the gun , and dedicated penetrator ammo in additional magazine .

[@riggerspoon8582]

Yeah this is why I run 10mm 180g hollow point vs fmj.

[@go4ride]

Thanks a lot for your work.

[@michaelcummings6178]

GOOD JOB !

[@dinsixiengmay9781]

Love your content you got a sub 👍

[@bushman979]

Great video enjoy and appreciate your content and time

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

Great test man, interesting results for sure. I have Underwood ammo, 155gr 10mm that has some serious kick to it, but I has no chronograph to give an accurate stat. All I do know, is that out of a 5” barrel on a solid steel 1911 it’s still got a punch to it! That’s out of my Rock Island Ultra FS HC: 16+1 of 10mm. Other than my S&W 629, It’s my trail gun during bear/moose season!

[@TheRealZJE313]

Why not a Desert Eagle in 44mag it has the recoll of a nine?and u get 8+1 of 44mag of any bullet weight u want and u can do reload pretty fast

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

@@TheRealZJE313 yeeeeah I can't $1200+ maybe after tax returns! Besides I know 2 people that own two different models of D.E and they both called theirs "jam-o-matics," so if I had the money I would just stick to the 44mag instead of .50AE

[@TheRealZJE313]

@@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG that's what I have 44 and tested out the extra mags that I have bought and no no jamming

[@ariesmight6978]

@@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG One of the main reasons for them jamming up. Is the poorly made magazines. Secondly improper holding of the hand gun itself. There are people who have tweeked the Desert Eagle up. And ran at least 10,000 rounds through it. I would not mind the .44 version myself. Or even in revolver, then maybe .460 Roland.

[@lanedexter6303]

Interesting! Seems FMJ likes to penetrate, regardless of caliber. Way back in the day, old timers liked to say “they all fall to ball,” usually referring to the .45 ACP. But in those days, choices were pretty much limited to ball and a couple of hollow points & soft points that didn’t work. Today, we have great defensive bullets. If I had to fall back on post apocalyptic scrounging, I’d want the big calibers and I’d probably be casting bullets.

[@jeffjackson5331]

Cool test.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@jeffjackson5331]

@@GunSam you are very welcome! I just finished watching your 357 mag 44mag comparison video. I loved it. I use a Taurus Raging Bull in 44mag with Win 240 gr SJSP and the Hornady 240gr hollow points when i go deer hunting.

[@mmccarthy9458]

The penetration of the 45 ACP FMJ really surprised me. The 10 MM FMJ not so much given the enormous power. The test confirmed the Kinetic AT in 45 ACP is absolutely ideal for self-defense. That and the 9mm JHP rounds with something like HST have the ideal limit for penetration.

[@YellowHammer26]

Good info, thanks

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@CLSharpman5000]

Whoa, new intro?

[@GunSam]

Slight song change lol

[@manbearpig2400]

I would be curious to see what the velocity of a 7.62x25 round would be after passing through the gel. Great video as always thanks!

[@carlosmorris4510]

Nice test... An innocent bystander; don't hit the innocent bystander! 😄

[@plasticglock]

Thanks for the vid Sam! Keep these interesting tests coming I love it! I have been interested to know which fmj's would do the most damage. Having seen both do you think the 45 or the 10mm did the most damage in the block? That first 10mm shot looked impressive in the gel.

[@durango8882]

New subscriber. 👏🏻👍🏻

[@CommunismiEstCacas]

I think most FMJs slide through tissues and lose less energy but in human body we have some dense bones that could make them drop all their energy.

[@maxtheroofer8004]

this is why he includes the fiberboard in the testing!

[@TheWalterKurtz]

Your best video.

[@archienagle9066]

👍Gained really useful info thank you. ♥️🇺🇸♾

[@nightvan4427]

Good job Thanks

[@ericbergfield6451]

I'll be going to be buying my first firearm (CP33 - .22lr) in the next 2 months. ...& after I get the CP33, I'll be taking my friend's 9mm Taurus (of ten years old) with me to the range!

[@GunSam]

Definitely an interesting firearm. One type of handgun that no one regrets getting for their first handgun is a really big and heavy 9mm pistol, the other thing is a really big .357/.38 revolver that you shoot .38 Special in, and another is like you chose a .22 LR of some sort. I just bought the first .22 LR pistol I have had in about 7 years, and i'm excited again. There's something very fun about .22 LR.

[@adonikam1]

Excellent video. Ok you don't need to go to a long explanation but just listen and say yes or no: ok? The 45. I carry it. And I use 230g hollow point +p or +p+ Buffalo Bore. In MY real world most of us 45 guys n girls use 230g. So I don't care what the FMJ did I need to see the hollow point data! XTZp Bullets! Yes I know this was a comparison yet do it with the same wait in grains...! The BS about I think this is what people carry for CC is to unknown, love ya bro! Great video! 😳👍👍😎

[@GunSam]

All I can say, is I know 230 gr ball was at that weight mainly for the reason of the 1911 pistol function, as that mass cycled it properly. So, as far as 230 gr VS lets say 185 and in between, I don't think the 230 gr is necessarily superior. Now with this 160 gr, it's getting a tad low in sectional density so it's no surprise the penetration was shallow, but 185 gr and up with a lead core, yeah i'm gonna say it's not less than 230 gr as far as capability.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

Interesting test. I was thinking, maybe for this one, put some MDF on the back said also, to represent the ribs at the back of a person.

[@herewardthewatchful1014]

This dude lives in Michigan behind enemy lines. He is a inspiration to those of you moving from your states to the south (Texas/Florida).

[@GunSam]

Michigan is actually very conservative. You just have some big cities and a swing state government. We are not on the best end of the swing currently.

[@herewardthewatchful1014]

@@GunSam You are correct.

[@rudypericolo]

Another great video! Kind'a curious as to what .357 magnum would do here, you didn't happen to shoot any through this (or last week's) set-up and not film them did you?

[@jedironin380]

@@GunSam Much like PA and NY. The rest of the state is mostly RED, but the big cities are Blue. :(

[@GunSam]

@@rudypericolo The issue is I do not have any true FMJ or soft point .357 Mag. I just never have had any. If I do acquire some I will for sure to that test. Now I do have hard cast which might suffice.

[@thetoneknob4493]

45acp 230grn ball ammo has its merits as a carry option. it preforms well at med to long range wear a hollow point goes below expansion threshold. it also dose pretty well threw barriers. its an accurate load and its what is most commonly practiced with at the range.

[@seangrover140]

Very interesting video! Would love to see this with other calibers 380, 9mm, 357, 22mag

[@rockjohnson2879]

Back in 1977 I was issued ball 38 spl. 158 grain. Model 10. Seen many of pass through on bad guys shoulder and leg shots . Seen 45 fmj do a pass through on officer. No vitals were hit. Pelvic area. 1day in hospital 1 week at home.also Same 38 spl ammo would not penetrate the back window of a 66 Chevy pickup..5 hits. One 9mm super vel.( remember those hot rods) penetrated the back window window and struck bad guy in lower base of skull and lodged in sinus cavity. Bad guy lived. I never except a JHP to expand on a bad guy as they do in jell test. Keep shooting until they drop. I

[@bafumat]

In my own testing .380 FMJ Or HP that fail to expand were the only loads that penetrate deeply enough. Testing was on deer and hogs. And they did not exit.

[@oldschoolcop8568]

Well I’m definitely surprised 😲 at the results.

[@JMBAmericanIronShallNotBeInfri]

With the current prices of ammo being ridiculously high right now, ESPECIALLY what is traditionally considered to be handgun self defence ammo, remember FMJ 45 acp (HARDBALL) ammo works just fine to stop the threat! In fact, I'll take 230gr. hardball for self defence any day. I want the penetration in a .45 caliber size projectile! A proven man stopper in real world shootouts in 45 acp for over 100 years, not to mention the long history of the .45 in Long colt caliber used in the wild west to dispatch many a bad guy or hostile Indian. And you get the added benefit of using the ammo you actually train with so you know exactly how it functions in your firearm and point of impact on your target, be it paper or human! Just sayin...

[@Fudmottin]

Unless it tumbles, all the ball ammo seems to ice pick. I still wouldn't want a hole poked in me though!

[@filianablanxart8305]

Yes , 246gr .44spl chrono's @ 696fps from my 4 inch actual .44spl , so that Fiochi .44Rus is duplicating standard .44spl ammo .

[@lcifermorningstar191]

Awesome 😎

[@zc8211]

I was shocked with that 44 russian, did way better than i expected. Thought it would have very little effect and that first shot literally made me say "holy shit"

[@mkshffr4936]

Yep, like the 38 Long and 45 S&W it is a very under appreciated round. The Tsarist Russians were no dummies.

[@zc8211]

@mkshffr4936 yeah I would not feel undergunned in most situations with a 45 russian, seeing what it can do. I've read a fair number of mentions of 38 long and 45 s&w, but never seen them actually tested. Do you happen to have a vid of those too?

[@danoneill2846]

I think this 45 HP will be my new carry round

[@jamespugh]

Pretty good video. Definitely don't carry fmj out 22lr or 22mag. I stay more to hollowpoints

[@jedironin380]

10mm is a recommended handgun for big-bear country. Now we see why!

[@totallyfrozen]

Hmm. Who recommends that? I lived in Alaska 32 years. My father was a registered hunting guide in Alaska for over 30 years. I’ve never heard any experts recommending the 10mm for “big bear”. Dad carried a .41 magnum revolver. I carried a .44 magnum revolver. The only guy I knew who carried a 10mm was a cop.

[@jedironin380]

@@totallyfrozen I've watched several videos on the "Alaskan Ballistics" KZbin channel. Also do a search for "10mm for bear defense" and you'll find many other videos. They DO also recommend .44 mag. I haven't seen much on .41 mag, it's a rare caliber among the folks I know.

[@jamespugh]

@@jedironin380 totally agree 👍 41 mag is a hard one find ammo for out u roll ur own. 10mm. #alaskanBallistics. Or chukes outdoor adventure both say 10mm is mimuim to carry in bear county. Or 357 mag. With sold lead or copper loading. 45 supra also

[@jamespugh]

@@totallyfrozen kind cool here from some in alaska. Lot people here is g20 10mm way go in alaska for least to carry in alaska for a side arm.

[@sleeper.simulant7327]

@@totallyfrozen a 10mm basically matches a .41 magnum in every way, shape and form, it just has 2.5x the capacity

[@martinkavanagh9641]

Yeah Mr Gun_Sam .. you are raising interesting questions & some answers. - I shoot on range regularly and favor "easy shooting stuff" like 32 H&R Magnum in my 327 Fed Magnum Ruger SP 101 .. BUT thinking 'horses for courses' maybe a 40/45 is better-best for urban self defense?? - As REALLY - Is overpenetration such a huge consideration when e.g. 80% of rounds fired by cops MISS anyway? Lead wadcutter 38s alternated forwards and backwards might be very effective? - Loving your work from down here in New Zealand.

[@GunSam]

I am very interested to see what .327 Federal Magnum or other .32's do. I am a little hesitant to do full out tests with is as I only own one snub in .327.

[@filianablanxart8305]

Not quite sure the direction of Mr Kavanah's inquiry ? Like Sam , I have a fondness for a good .32 , and with the right loads they perform better than most shooters would expect . That said , is .45acp a better defensive caliber ? Absolutely ! ( Presuming there are no medical/ physical issues requiring only very minimal recoil .) Pass through injure or kill an unseen bystander , or fellow good guy manuvered to flanking position and in wrong place at wrong time ? Doesn't happen often , but occurrence is more than Zero . But why FMJ and not jhp in the big bore ? Does the pistol only function with FMJ ? Is this dual purpose for use against both Felons and Large Animals ? Is FMJ a New Zealand requirement ?

[@MultiDryder]

I have always figured overpenetration is a myth and this video explains it

[@maverickpaladin4155]

Interesting concept testing. I'd be curious to see how calibers like .32 ACP, .25 ACP, 9x18 Mak, and other pocket gun calibers (sub 9mm power) compare FMJ vs JHP.

[@randymathewson7939]

As a rule of thumb 9mm does penetrate more than 45, but always exceptions. Sometimes 45 fmj doesn't but I urge against it. I have personally witnessed 2 people shot with 45 ball. Both were through and through shots (non fatal) and one guy literally didn't know he was hit for a cple mins until somebody saw a hole in his uniform shirt. We thought it missed him. The wound sealed and no blood. That's no B.S. I watched it happen. So for all u "shoot em in the foot with a 45 and they go down" kind of people. Good luck with that. Seen quicker stops with a 38 lead wadcutter. Not anti- 45, I carried one. But also 38, 9mm, etc. Pick a good bullet first, then put em where they need to go. You'll make it home. Good vid

[@TheRealZJE313]

This is a good video for the 45 to show all them DUMMY'S who say 45 is old and out dated and is slow and u have better choices than 45 and u get better performance out of a puny 9mm or 40cal.

[@DanTheWolfman]

Baddie needs clothing on back...most bullets drop out of back elastic skin angle towards ground. Would like more .45 ball...maybe compared to. 380 and 9mm and. 32 magnum. Over penetration doesn't happen in civilian cases and most past le military were from NATO ball from mp5s

[@matthewanderson9912]

Nice video. I’d be interested to see what a jacketed soft point in 357 magnum and 44 magnum would do. I would think maybe they would give some expansion.

[@thinktwice8860]

I’ve seen some tests on that. Over penetrates. I can’t remember how far.

[@filianablanxart8305]

I can answer that from personal experience ( on game) with .357 158 JSP . ( From a rifle , which w ould cause expansion , if anything ever would .) It doesn't expand . I penetrates a LOT , measured in feet , not inches . ( Lengthwise thru a Boar)

[@alexanderlevy158]

Damn, I was missing seeing the plywood after the 10mm fmj.

[@WImob420]

IDK buddy shot himself(graze wound) was a .45ACP hollow point. we recovered the round. it did not expand at all. got stuck in between the floor and the ceiling below. (old house build around late 1800's) was just ODD.....

[@GunSam]

Yeah, that may be another test. Impacting wood, sheet rock etc can make some rounds much different than others. Like, 9mm VS .45 i'm gonna say 9mm penetrates through way more of a house, but in jelly like humans a .45 might penetrate more.

[@herewardthewatchful1014]

I have an old thick mahogany bed in my burn pile that at suicidal man once shot a 45 acp into several times before taking his own life. Surprisingly I found a few lodged in the front bedpost after he fired from the back.

[@falcon6995]

Considering you said it was a graze wound, the bullet probably didn't hit enough flesh to expand. Lucky for him it didn't though.🙏

[@TxJK18]

I have been shooting 44 russian lately too. Love that round on my 629 6 1/2 full underlug is like shooting a 22. Do you happen to know if i can shoot also 44 colt?? The local store has quite a few boxes of that Black Hills ammo

[@GunSam]

I have actually never heard of .44 Colt, as it looks a little less common. I do not know if there is a modern load of it, but the info listed shows a 45 caliber bullet. The case looks like it would fit, as well as it looks like the bullet would fit in the chamber too. But, I would not do it until I researched it more.

[@filianablanxart8305]

Modern ".44 Colt " , yes you can ! It is essentially midway in case length between .44Spl and .44Rus . Historical .44Colt as introduced circa 1871 , and produced sporadically until WWII , used a Heel type .45 bullet . ( Likewise the very similar .44 Remington from the 1870s .)

[@agave1314]

Great Tests Thank You 🐸✝️

[@livincincy4498]

Your contribution as a citizen Scientist to Balistic knowledge is commendable. There are those that translate inches of penetration in Balistic Gel to inches of penetration in humans. I understand stand why they see this as so. But the 12-18" Gel standard was never said to mean this. To many Citizen Scientists have discovered Hollow points do not always open. They open reliably well in water jugs and gel. But clothing & simulated bone deter expansion. I have pondered about how much energy it takes to expand a bullet. The 45, known for knock down power, demonstrated a lot of retained velocity exiting the block. Inversely, we can see how many Feet/Second a and thus energy a 45 hollow point removes. The bullet makers know how much energy it takes to open/flatten their hollow point by testing them in a metallurgy lab by crushing them. I wonder if shooting pigs did not produce better data. That was how the bullet weights & velocity of hard cast non expanding were figured out. Expanding hollow points trend to be lighter than these weights. They started out in the traditional bullet weights but seem to be getting lighter with each generation. I would enjoy seeing actual evidence based science showing 12-18" Balistic Gel is an accurate method to determine ballistics . It seems we have been told to accept the Eminence Based Science that it is true and not question the dogma. Citizen Scientists are showing enough questions that I personally wonder. The Balistic performance of 45 ACP 230 grain FMJ should pass thru better than a 45 Colt 230 grain soft lead of similar velocity. Soft lead tipped hunting handgun & carbine bullets are common. Hunting is a good Balistic resource. Take care and good luck to everyone in choosing self defense ammunition.

[@danoman5217]

HP ammo became popular in the 1970s. Most projectiles have been a hard cast lead for 100 plus years. FMJ and hard cast ball work.

[@jasonkeating9958]

A test with the solid copper extreme defender type rounds would be an obvious type to test

[@mkshffr4936]

As I mentioned on another video the Ruskie is worth a bit of a deep dive. The case size is perfect for smokeless powder and soft lead projectiles. It xan exhibit exceptional accuracy and efficiency.

[@jamescorfield534]

I used to call the flat tip 45s ‘Show Stoppers’

[@ronaldtoney8976]

WOW.. AWSOME, FED HST .45ACP BECAUSE IT DUMPED ALL IT'S ENERGY W/OUT OVER PENETRATING.. DUMPED ALL ENERGY INTO THE TARGET..

[@andyphelps3064]

Have you done these test with smaller calibers, that would be fun like 22, 22 mag, 32 acp, and any of those type calibers im talking FMJ even going into like 327 and all that and seeing if any of them over penetrate

[@GunSam]

Not yet, but i'd love to.

[@ariesmight6978]

Hello Gun Sam is the semi auto the same Glock. That you used in your previous video? And if so, did you solve its malfunction issues? If so how?

[@B0N3ZNP3WZ]

I wish you would have tested the 45 more than just once with fmjs. Curious about penetration with them touching.

[@MrSearay1962]

Like the new intro music. Thanks for another great video