.380 ACP VS .38 Special in Short Barrels Federal PUNCH

[@haVocHWC3]

I enjoy your camera work/angles and presentation. It's fast and efficient. Nice to see the results in real time with multiple camera angles.

[@cajunstacker1376]

I really appreciate all of the work you put into the videos. My first gun was a ruger lcr 38 special + p.I chose a revolver after watching your videos and I love it.I will never get rid of it. Thanks

[@noahrowland1220]

I just bought an lcr brand new and it’s my favorite

[@SilvioManfredDante85]

38 Special, baby!

[@liberaceboiithe3rd5]

WOOHOOOO more .38 reviews. Love it

[@alexmcgregor2854]

I recently switched from a Ruger LCP back to my 637 Performance Center, nice to see this comparison, as always another great video!

[@GunSam]

Thank you.

[@oldcop18]

Once again impressive accuracy Sam. I usually carry my LCP more in the warm weather & your videos help me select the best ammo for the job.

[@redesert_boy8202]

Always good to know how ammo does in short barrels or smaller less powerful calibers. Thanks Mr. Gun Sam!

[@JMane3000]

Great test and comparison.... This is the best ballistic channel on KZbin

[@lutherpayne9957]

The little .38 is a potent defensive round, with the right ammo. The same with the 9mm Kurtz. Projectile selection is key to their effectiveness.

[@cameronnorton5898]

Best .38 I've found is the Remington HTP 158gr +P soft lead SWC hollow point. It's basically your grandpa's carry ammo, but maybe gramps knew what he was doing.

[@josephthomas439]

@@cameronnorton5898 yep, In fact semi wad cutters, or full wad cutters make excellent defense round.

[@TheSulross]

went thru 9mm semi auto, .357 double action, and .38 special double action - the latter is what I landed on; I agree with grandpa

[@CeltKnight]

Bullet selection IS indeed important. However, shot placement is always key.

[@yogi8787]

What would you say about .32 like in cz vz 70? I'm eyeballing one

[@jakedonohue615]

Such a great channel with so much useful information. Keep em coming my man 🤝

[@mikunan]

I have been out of touch for quite a while; but I am glad you are still doing your thing . Different than the jug or naut. Nice test..

[@elsullo2]

Very useful test! I wondered about Punch ammo; neh? By the way, Four of those .38 shots fired off-hand, double-action, hit the fifty yard target. And three of those hit in about a THREE INCH GROUP! You are a hard act to follow!..........................elsullo

[@GunSam]

Thanks. Buffalo Outdoors is better!

[@philiptheriault7953]

Yes! Another 380 video. Thanks Sam this should be a treat

[@robertlaguitara7295]

Just found your channel. Great run down on punch ammo. saw a lot of hype out there about this new self defense ammo. You saved me the trouble of wasting my money on stuff that dose not even expand. short and to the point!!! you gave an easy to watch review . Thanks

[@jmurphy68463]

I've seen a couple other videos on KZbin with the Federal Punch and they didn't get any expansion either. The only one that got expansion was a guy who shot it directly into a 55 gallon drum full of water.

[@GunSam]

The 9mm does, but Federal has loaded it like 25% more powerful than even the .45 version.

[@poacher-ec9zo]

Thanks for all your recent work.

[@Stalin4403]

Definitely wanted to see a test with the Punch ammo...More normal priced self-defense ammo.Not a common of federal

[@janieprather]

Thanks for your real-world test of the 38 special punch in a short barrel revolver

[@dangerman007]

Disappointing loads. This is why I love your testing. You save me money on rounds that basically target loads.

[@GunSam]

Yeah, I actually like that some fail. Just proves that ones that do well REALLY do well. Like, in water jugs nearly everything expanded. That's why I like the gel, I need to get failures to know what is better.

[@fugley100]

The blacked out clear ballistics slo-mo kicks ass!

[@krashdude1]

Thank you. From watching your tests and some others, it seems the Federal Punch does really well in the 9mm. In 45 ACP the Federal HST does very well. This Punch in 380 ACP does not seem to perform in the little LCP as well as the Hornady Critical Defense in 380 ACP. The 38 Special in a snubby will always be a challenge. Good video

[@chrislovett1637]

The Hornady HXT is way better that Critical Defense in 380

[@tomfile3131]

My EDC is a Ruger LCP. Good to know the round isn't a complete wimp. The advantage of this pistol is it's lightweight and compact so carrying is easy-peasy.

[@WheelgunsOnWheels]

As always another killer clip Sam. I like when you compare .38 to anything as that’s the round of my preference. Seems to always perform at least adequately.

[@jeffreylocke8808]

A 38 Special backup revolver pocket carry in a pocket holster to my model 329 PD 44 magnum revolver.

[@DanTheWolfman]

We found Yankee Marshals cousin

[@willo7734]

I recently fired some .380 federal punch from an LCP2 into some ghetto homemade gelatin that my brother concocted a few weeks ago. In that case the expansion was way better than I expected, maybe because we didn’t use denim or cloth. I started using it as my main carry load for that pistol. I need to find the .38 special now.

[@patrickraymondvergar]

anyway this caliber kill you.

[@THE713TEXAN]

Wanted say thanks for testing these combinations have a box of the 380 federal punch and was wondering about its performance.

[@ethan.amosberg835]

Federal punch is my personal carry ammo when I carry my 38 special revolver so this was definitely an interesting test.

[@h.r.puffnstuff8705]

Sam I appreciate your testing and analysis. I frequently share your videos with others. Just some food for thought. Cellphones and jewelry are very common carry’s in the center mass region on many males Nowdays. I’m willing to donate a couple phones for testing. I think a couple of your top performing HP, heavy for caliber lead, and a solid copper round out of a Snub might make for a great testing video or two

[@nathanlambshead4778]

About a year ago I rotated out our bedside table Taurus 38 snubbie ammo from 129 grn Fed +P Hydroshok and replaced it with 120 grain +P Punch. I trust either one. For me, Federal is about as good as it gets for defense loads in metallic cartridges. Their bullet construction/material is a cut above most other brands.

[@jma3586]

Thanks you just saved me some $$$ not buying the .38+P Punch for my 605. As always a great job!

[@josephthomas439]

It'll still do the job just fine, in my opinion. And it's more budget friendly, for a self defense round

[@Fudmottin]

Depending on the cost, I'm thinking, "it will bleed plenty." Yeah, they didn't mushroom out. But both had fairly low energy so I think that would have been detrimental. The 38s looked like they tumbled. I'm fairly sure there was some cookie cutter action going on.

[@charleywalker2982]

Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please.

[@rob.3575]

Hey Sam have you ever considered getting a PC carbine[I guess 9mm would be the easiest place to start]? I don't recall seeing many ballistic tests with PC carbines and I think it would interesting to see how a 16in barrel effects performance. I feel like there would be some interesting results and some ammo might even perform worse.

[@GunSam]

I have thought about it, however looking at all the numbers, one does not gain a whole lot in terms of power. Might make a good home defense gun, but probably not a lot going on in ballistic testing. Now a .357 Mag lever gun might be cool, sometimes close to 100% increase in power.

[@cameronnorton5898]

@@GunSam The other day I chrono'd a Buffalo Bore 158gr .357 at *2305 fps* out of my Henry lever gun. That's getting close to .30-30 muzzle energy!

[@Followme556]

@@cameronnorton5898 It's basically a 7.62x39mm at that point.

[@samuelmorado70]

I go lucky and found one for 350 with all the accessories that come with it. Would probably go straight through at 10 yards

[@YellowHammer26]

Glad to see this. I've seen videos where the punch 9mm did really well, these two not so much. Thanks for the test 👍👍

[@GunSam]

It does. I tested it again recently, very powerful and one of the best rounds I have tested. 422 FPE and same expansion and penetration with and without MDF, both at like 18" even. Perfect. I will release the video sometime soon, tested against the .45 ACP Punch.

[@podsmpsg1]

I carry the .38 Special Punch.

[@scubaguy007]

Well those were pretty piss poor out of a short barrel. They might want to rethink that one. Thanks for your efforts in bringing it to us.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching!

[@OOICU812]

You obviously put quite a bit of work into this video, and I thank you.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching. I put about average work into it, compared to all others I do.

[@Stalin4403]

Well that answers that question.In my mind there are two types of ammo.The ones who pass the tests and target ammo.

[@sarmachulianov]

Thank you very much for your video and time. Regards from Mexico

[@bobbywesley800]

Great video. Thanks. Can't believe this was from federal.

[@erichanson7293]

Sam, thank you for testing the. Federal Punch in .380. I have only seen one other test online. I have tested it in Clear Ballistics Gel through 4 layers of denim and got 14.5 “ of penetration and expansion to about .50 cal. I have also shot it into Knox gelatin covered with 4 layers of denim and have seen 13, 13, 14, 14.5 inches, even with one of those shots through 4 layers and a pronghorn scapula. ALL expanded to roughly .50 caliber. I have shot through the chest cavity of said expired antelope with the internal organs still present and found the bullet, fully expanded, under the hide on the. opposite side. I have shot other .380 loads into the same media and the only one that also expands every time is the XTP (in organic gel. not as consistent in clear gel); it just doesn’t penetrate as deeply. All shot with the Ruger LCP or LCP Max. The only other one I haven’t tested as much yet is the Federal Hydra-Shok Deep 99 gr in the .380. It would be interesting to see your results with that particular load, also. It is purported by Federal to be the deepest penetrating, expanding bullet in the .380. As for testing media, the organic gel is most likely more accurate. It is also a pain the backside to make and store and has a limited shelf life. Clear Ballistics Gel is probably not as accurate as the organic stuff, but your efforts to use MDF to represent ribs and sternum are valuable and keep your gel from being contaminated and ruined by bone and blood from actual animal ribs. I’m not suggesting you switch to organic gel, just an observation from shooting both and watching results of both being shot. I truly appreciate all your work on testing various bullets, guns, and loads. I look forward to your newest videos. I cannot explain why the Punch failed to expand for you, though, in either caliber. My testing in .380 and 9mm of the Punch have it expanding every. single. time., and penetrating at least 12 inches after going through denim or other cloth. Keep up the great work!

[@GunSam]

Only thing I can think, is velocity. Did you happen to get velocity reads? I do my videos as 600 ft above sea level and often times I get less velocity than other people.

[@erichanson7293]

Yessir. Lowest was 966, highest 980 fps over 5 recorded shots. I live at 5600 ft. That increased velocity just might explain it.

[@GunSam]

@@erichanson7293 Definitely. My high was 870. I hear about how people up high get crazy numbers with .357 Mag also, like my 1,400 is your 1,600.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Thanks, always an interesting video. Great 50 yard shooting with those short barrel guns. Take care.

[@GunSam]

Thanks a lot!

[@philipscougale2075]

I think that what your test tells us is that these rounds need higher impact velocity to expand properly and reliably. From the testing I’ve seen at various online sources I’ve noticed most .38spl and 380acp JHP rounds either open too easily and penetrate less than 10” in gel or they don’t expand when fired from 2-3 inch barrels respectively. Lengthen the barrel and it’s a whole new ballgame.

[@ratagris21]

Great testing Sam! Looks like these Punch rounds are hyped ammo. Better off with FMJs for the money. Looks like SWC or HSTs are the better buys for .38 spl. If Remington keeps making the green and white box .38 spls then that will be the best buy for money/quantity. 🎩♠️☯️

[@828enigma6]

I've always felt the 380 to be an either/or round. You can either have penetration or expansion, but not both, due to the anemic factory loads. (Botique loads may be different). I choose penetration as first priority. If I must carry a 380, my load of choice is a 115 gr hard cast lead at +P velocity. However, there are 9mm mini compacts available that are very little larger than 380 handguns and are capable of both penetration AND expansion with the right ammo.

[@Pmedic605]

Thanks for this video! I'm very disappointed in the performance of these rounds. I also think Federal is being a bit disingenuous and unrealistic in their velocity ratings as those are clearly for much longer barrels.

[@OneSquaredG]

I like your videos, so thank you. I'd just like to say you never tried any shots without the denim. It could have been the denim and not the mdf that was causing a lack of expansion.

[@chuckhaggard1584]

The dirty little secret of snubs in any caliber is that they tend to not expand with JHPs. The performance shown here is not bad actually, I'd be OK with it.

[@pistolerogt]

I thought that it always expanded the Federal. Good video my friend

[@alanderson9711]

380s and 38s…thanks for playing our music, tasty as always

[@sladeoriginal]

While expansion might be sexy, all it is meant to do is ensure as much energy as possible is imparted into the target and lessen the possible of over penetration. Penetration to hit vital organs or the central nervous system is what stops threats in the short term. So in reality, expansion doesn't mean much if you're still reaching desired penetration.

[@tangomike12]

This is why I like the extreme defender bullets. There are too many factors with hollow points.. they need velocity, they can get clogged etc.. extreme defender/hunter will perform decent under any circumstances.

[@tiltedflip4491]

Thanks for the test. I like the 2 weapon choices here; My choice of carry compared to my son's choice of carry. Not trying to best or bash or anything, just enjoying life and freedom.

[@cameronnorton5898]

I just ordered some Buffalo-Barnes 80gr. +P solid copper hollow point for my .380. I wonder how that ammo is gonna do compared to this.

[@SheikOutdoors]

I carry the punch in my model 60, was at an xmas party last night and a retired LEO gifted me a box of Hornady CD light and said they tested them and performed the best. I dont think so. These punch +p rounds are the way to go. It was nice gift but I don't think ill be carrying them.

[@colt10mmsecurity68]

HST’s still reign supreme.

[@traumajock]

Well, dang. I bought a box of the 38 Punch this afternoon. I suppose I'll use it in my 4 inch Security Six instead of the 856.

[@wbriggs111]

Those hollow points won't open so I have wadcutters loaded in my 38. And jacketed bullet at under 1100 fps aren't helping.

[@TheSquirrelE]

Great infovid. But wouldn't pork ribs be a better test medium for bone structures?

[@ronaldarand5085]

Thanks for comparing the .380 and .38 special in pocket carry guns. I alternate between the 2 with a Taurus 605 and Keltec P3AT. I have purchased a Taurus 856 3” barrel and a S&W ez .380 this summer. The extra barrel length will help me on choice of ammo. Thanks for ball your videos

[@oubliette862]

I was wondering about that 380 ammo. I found some 45acp that tested well in a compact. Armscor 230gr jacketed hp. My test isn't as elaborate as yours. I found the critical defense stuff in 45 didn't do so great in gel but did very well on a full pork shoulder with the bone. The exit was ugly.

[@Ruweisat]

Thanks for another great video… even if it didn’t include.32 S&W/.327!

[@nightvan4427]

Hi, welcome back, my friend, I have some special clips for you now.

[@KrakenBolter]

With those sub 2 inch snubbies seems like wadcutters is better than hollow points

[@robwilson3749]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Your assessment is correct; stick with the solids in 2" .38's.

[@Jason-iz6ob]

I think bullet expansion is often misunderstood. The point of a bullet expanding is not so that a wider bullet will cause more damage, that amount of difference is insignificant, it’s to slow it down faster in the target so more of the energy gets delivered to the target rather than the backstop. If you’re getting the penetration depth you want, without over penetrating, in your intended target out of your preferred gun then whether or not it has expanded isn’t of much concern.

[@davidlee8551]

Good information !

[@orlandoserrano2323]

Thank you, good video 👍👍👍

[@brucemoriarty9964]

Great info. I like the 38s.

[@tomhambright3439]

You should try the 280 with a 65gr lehigh defence xtreme defence bullet and the 38 special with a lehigh 100 gr extreme defence bullet.

[@foreverjim5240]

Have you tested the Winchester silvertip 9mm yet?? I just got a box and haven't shot any yet. Really wondering if they are any good.

[@joep8787]

I would expect the 38 special ammo to be far more powerful given the far larger size of the cartridge. You're a better shot than I am. I have the LCPII and I won't even try beyond 30 feet, let alone 25 yards.

[@gilbertoportillo6650]

I was a little disappointed with the 38 special being a plus p. I’ll continue to carry 158gr swchp plus p or the 148 wadcutters. Thanks

[@rockjohnson2879]

I have seen several shooting with SWCLHP . They work. Still the expansion was minimal. I would carry then. Buffalo Bore and Underwood make some hot loads.

[@apuzyr]

Nice review; though (pretty much) anticipated. 👍🏼

[@GunSam]

Thanks.

[@tires2burn]

Thanks for your videos. You really put out a lot of info. I'll stick with Gold Dots or HST.

[@GunSam]

Thanks for watching. I feel like overall HST is a tad better than Gold Dot, but they are close.

[@tires2burn]

@@GunSam Thanks for your confirmation. I agree.

[@danielaramburo7648]

I would prefer the revolver. It’s more reliable and it’s a metal frame, so it will last longer. The LCP is good, but not as sturdy as the revolver’s metal frame.

[@danielaramburo7648]

@Peter Angles with ammo prices, that would bankrupt me. Given how much I shoot, by then I would have a newer more fancy gun. I’m looking at a 6 1/2 inch 44 magnum.

[@robwilson3749]

That's why at $200 a piece, I bought two.

[@lynch6642]

I keep Lehigh Xtreme Defender or its likeness in my .380, because most ammo in a 380 just will not expand... I wonder if there was even hollow-point ammo in these two calibers when they were invented, I know 38 had lead round nose and I think 380 was just full metal jacket, which may work great in these

[@GunSam]

I have been wanting to test some for a long time in gel. I have several, almost a full box of .327 Mag and I think some .357 and 9mm+P too. Might have to soon.

[@sabaof8]

The many tests of Punch that I have seen do not justify its added cost.

[@Predalien195]

I feel like that .38 Punch could have hit 1000 fps in a 3 inch barrel. Both still seem to be really solid and it's no surprise. Federal said the Punch is essentially an HST but not as good for barrier penetration and most all tests results seem to confirm that. My favorite part is the price is on par with cheaper JHP's like Silvertips, V-Crown, and so forth.

[@GunSam]

It's a powerful round. I don't recall the velocity when I ran it in the 4" barrel, but I do recall it was something like 308 FPE which would be probably 1,050 FPS or so. edit, looked it up, the 4" gave me 1,075 FPS.

[@keithgregory7937]

Good video!

[@GunSam]

Thanks.

[@jonathananthony1901]

I have this same Ruger LCP, and I cannot get the Federal Punch to FEED! It gets hung up on the feed ramp every single time!

[@jamesmorrison7847]

I have a S&W Bodyguard .380 and I think it's fine for it's intended purpose as a deep concealed gun for up close and personal defense. I would use better ammo than the stuff in this test. I own a Ruger LCR 9mm but I just can't warm up to a small revolver.

[@AFITgrad86]

My take ... if you are going with the Charter Arms stubby go for the .44 special.

[@swedeson6188]

We see a lot of short barrels, But can we see som 22Lr from a 5.5" barrel?

[@ravenrise320]

Both loadings needed more velocity. Those low velocity numbers really translated to underwhelming HST performance in both calibers. If BOTH could've been tested as +P offerings. The results for both mightve displayed better performance.

[@rockjohnson2879]

Under a 1000 FPS most likely very little expansion. I carry HP but don’t except much from a 3 inch 38 spl. I know I will get 12 inches or more penetration. Shot placement is king

[@Motor-City-Mike]

The .380 ACP amounts to a toy in self defense. The objective in self defense isn't a kill, it's STOPPING the assailant, and stopping someone requires a SOLID hit center mass (excluding a much less likely head shot - tough to accomplish in a split-second confrontation) transferring as much energy to the torso. By pure data (as well as real world documentation) the .38 special is superior hands down. My carry? S&W 640-1 2", .357, hammerless, usually loaded .38 +p+ expanding rounds, in a more open environment I switch over to a full .357, expanding round. The .357, properly loaded, is documented as a highly likely one shot stop.

[@DERDM]

How do you feel this ammo compares to the Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain +p?

[@abc-wv4in]

I'm still not understanding a reason to go with Punch over HST. It's not even that much less expensive. Targetsportsusa has 50-rd HST 9mm for $40, less if you are a member of their prime program and free shipping. Unless I see something new about Punch, I'm sticking with HST in 9mm, and Gold Dots in .38 spl.

[@Dr.Pepper001]

Can you fire a .380 in a 38 special revolv?

[@bluzzjazz]

I got my wife a Sig p238, it's small, so it fits her hands better and it's decent enough for self defense. My 1970s S&W 38 kicked too much for her and my P365 XL was too big, so 380 it is.

[@GunSam]

I'm willing to bet she might like target wadcutters in the .38, makes a nice defensive load and recoil like a .380.

[@bluzzjazz]

@@GunSam Thanks, I was not familiar with those. I'll have to check it out.

[@kendric98]

Try the .38 in the 3 and 4 inch guns please?

[@DanTheWolfman]

Damn thought the .38 would expand a bit and do better. I think you need to get a different lot of it in s couple months and retest w both short and long barrels if u would. Newish ammo in crunch time I'm think the .38 was just made a bit too hard in this batch.

[@GunSam]

I actually tested the .38 in the 4" and 2" before, but it was my very first Clear Ballistics video so it wasn't easy to watch. I retested it as now I use MDF and I also wanted to have something to compare to the .380; kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJWzhnptdqZ5oLM

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@GunSam I know I've seen it perform well be4 was prob yours.

[@Coopdog1911]

I'm so disappointed that it did not expand. I feel like I just wasted $35 to get a box of the punch in .38. Wish I had bought the Norma MHP.

[@chrish.4067]

My question is originally .380 was designed for and used in longer barrel guns. How does it handle out of a 4" barrel gun versus these Lil plastic 2" barrel guns? Of course the same could be said about the .38 special. Great video as always!

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I haven't shot a .380 in a longer barrel in awhile.

[@chrish.4067]

@@GunSam I wish I could loan you my Browning 1911 .380 for a round of testing. It's small, but has a 4.25 barrel.

[@chrish.4067]

@@Salieri47 Exactly, as Paul Harrell says "shoot what you shoot well". And as he has demonstrated a .380 round coming out of a 4" barrel will expand and do more damage. Even the fanciest .380 rounds might not expand out of a 2-3" barrel. For 20 Oz. loaded, my 4" barrel .380 is accurate and powerful enough to GTF out of there. I also carry a LCR in 38 special. Don't get old and weak, like me, or you too might be at your best with these "inferior" rounds! I wish I was still as sturdy as Sam!

[@jeffcross71]

They plug up and don't expand so you should just carry Underwood extreme defender.

[@plasticglock]

I'm a little confused. Previously you tested the 120 38 special punch and it expanded. In a 4 inch and in that same Taurus 2.25". I don't understand why it didn't work this time. Last time there was no MDF in the shot but the second shot in today's test should have duplicated those results. I'm not complaining though. I enjoy all you videos. I just would love to know why it performed differently. Link to the vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJWzhnptdqZ5oLM

[@GunSam]

I don't know. And velocity was only 4 FPS different average. Sometimes it just happens, a lot of people test one caliber/make of ammo and fire like 3-4 rounds into the block the same day and some expand, some don't.

[@Mbartel500]

Yeah…I just can't warm up to Federal's punch bullet line. Maybe they would be better in 4-6 inch barrel lengths, I don't know. I think the HST bullets are one of, if not the best SD bullets on the market. Federal makes great SD ammo, but they should rework their punch bullets so that they will perform better in short barreled CC handguns.

[@GunSam]

I tested more of it too. The only good Punch bullet is the 9mm. They put a ton of time into that one to make it right, while doing nothing to make the other calibers perform. Even .45 ACP Punch from my 5.3" pistol did not expand.

[@G1FREAKZ]

I dont know why but I gravitate towards the 38 special round 😳🤣✌🇨🇱🇺🇸

[@GunSam]

Cause it's better lol. I mean, at 120 grains you are up to being a "real" cartridge that has the ability to penetrate soft material as well as most things like 9mm, .45 etc, but .380's typically don't expand well and when they do, rather than like 9mm and .38 where an expanded bullet easily hit 15" to 18", the .380 expanded often does stuff like 9".

[@G1FREAKZ]

@@GunSam Makes sense ,thanks brother

[@jsr-uz3oj]

I'll take 38 specials over 380 but with the newer 9mm guns like the sig p365 hellcat Glock 43x these calibers are out dated I carry a sig p365.

[@tonyb3848]

​@Peter Angles Get with the times grandpa. Good luck using your 5 shot snubber or puny .380 against 2 African Americans high on pills armed with Glocks that have extended magazines.

[@sliptap]

If I remember correctly, the 90grain gold dot goes 900 FPS out of a LCP (heavier and faster). Can't believe Federal could only eek out 850 out of that round. Very disappointed for both of these.

[@davidr.5749]

The police in this country did not stop using the 38 special because it wasn't a good round. It had a one-stop shot ratio of 95%. They only changed to semi-auto pistols for the extra firepower (ammo capacity.) How quick we forget! The 158gr semi-wadcutter +p soft lead semi-wadcutter hollow point coming out of a four-inch barrel at 850 feet per second is still a viable option for those who still use 38 revolvers. Just remember bullet placement and penetration is still more important than bullet expansion. So using them in your two-inch snubby shouldn't be a problem. We have over a hundred years of history of the round nose soft lead 38 special bullet stopping the bad guy

[@robwilson3749]

It had a 95% one shot stop ratio? That's some revisionist history right there. Wow.....I think you may have your numbers turned around. Did you mean to say 59%? Even that numbet is too high.