[GWENT DISCUSSION] DO WE REALLY NEED DEFENDERS IN GWENT?

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

Hey, folks! Trying something a bit different this time since playing the game isn't working out too well...I just wanted to make it very clear that this video is just me expressing MY OWN opinions! If you disagree that's perfectly fine :) I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love for you to politely tell me why you maybe feel differently. Hope you enjoy the video!

[@geoffraupeter7236]

I enjoyed hearing your take on the current Gwent playing experience Alex. Yes, there are some key cards that need addressing in balance patch come next month. We all know the offenders by now. As for Defender you made, I dig it; though I still like the factions versions they just need a rework (such as Devotion added: gain Defender Status) they would of course need a base ability, but nothing too crazy. That way you can further adjust the faction Defenders provision cost (10+) according to the Devotion and reworked base ability. Faction Defender example: NR Donimir would support Knight/Grace archetype, NG Ffion supports Soldiers and Tactics, MO Cave Troll *Needs an actual Name and should now support Thrive archetype, ST Figgis bringing Dwarves back into relativity, SK Covenant of Steel this needs a tag of only 1 should not have 2 tags choose either Pirate or Warrior; then once chosen have it support that archetype, SY Azar this is most difficult to balance since 2 Defenders are involved, though it already has support for Salamandra so its a good start, I thought I'd be cool to be able to place the Scarabs wherever you choose (to defend both rows if needed). Deploy: Spawn and Play a Scarab on a row, then repeat the ability.

[@lucasmccauley3995]

I agree whole heartedly.. I love Gwent but it's not living up to it's potential, we need to move away from answer or lose cards, double jeopardy cards like sabbath, and auto include neutrals. It feels like every time I'm ready to enjoy a month of gwent there is something stupid breaking the game and I end up waiting another month to try again.

[@Labbromat]

You're right, I DO like to hear you talking ;) I'd love to hear maybe your top 3 cards of each fation, and maybe something similar about the worst ones, a bit quicker like this video. Custom cards would be awesome, I always love me some good custom cards

[@ArshadKhan-ld4or]

Not sure if anyone pointed this out but I think one good option can be adding adrenaline condition to defenders. This might provide some balance or may be auto purify after some turns just as for syndicate poison guy ( sorry, don't remember his name)

[@kettab24]

This game could be so much more than it is now...Renfri is a cool card but it needs to restricted to units, can't allow special cards it also needs to be part of the bandit archetype imo

[@guts294-v2h]

Give it order for blessing and make it 6 power , fixed

[@bunnyThor]

Here's a solution to keep Defenders usable to protect engines but not Answer-or-Die cards. Have Defenders *only* protect Bronze cards on the same row. That means any Gold card (most of the Answer-or-Die cards) can be targeted even if they are on a Defender row. In fact, this would make "Defended" Gold cards a liability, as you could target them to get some splash damage on the adjacent Bronzes.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Another way would be to make them more potent in Devotion decks, say cannot be purified

[@guts294-v2h]

@@kaushalsuvarna5156 great idea but has to have that bronze card nerf

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

@@guts294-v2h indeed rework is needed One of my pet peeves is CDPR keeps adding new cards, mechanics etc while not balancing older stuff, it's off-putting

[@padgerpadger2532]

Ace, is it possible to like a video more than once? You're spot on - Defenders are no longer serving the purpose they were introduced to do and seem to solely exist now to make it even more frustrating to play against binary, answer-or-lose cards and decks.

[@dannyavery5578]

Nice vid, Ace! Appreciate your opinion, 40min video saved me from logging into Gwent and playing two games (against Renfri) as well - bonus. Roll on next patch.

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

Haha you're very welcome for getting to miss those two games 😅👍

[@ksiezycowafrezarka9179]

Realy appriciate the effort, great video. I'd love to see Gwent going into direction, you've pointed, busting devotion rather than making another must have neutral cards.

[@wwebb1]

"If you're so blessed that you don't even know what a defender does." I chuckled because it's 100% true.

[@matthewschwer9099]

There are some many solid unit options for thinning, high point, point slam options, that it is not much of a deck building restriction at all for Renfri.

[@19263411]

Thank you for pointing the problem out, this problem has been in my mind for quite some time. My solutions was to fix the problem of pellar being inconsistent, by simply buffing pellar to 5 point and probably make it have an extra ability if played on different rows, so that the "force inclusion" doesn't feel as bad, but I really like your perspective that maybe defender doesn't need to exist at all, especially in the current card pool. I really hope CDPR listen and take care of the problem with defender currently, even if they come up with a different solution. On the other hand, if you are looking for more topics to discuss in the future, I feel like graveyard interaction (both banish and resurrect), mulligans/round structure, dual abilites (melee, ranged) and strategems are some of the topics that might be interesting to talk about.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Defenders need to be there, but not be purifiable and actually defend something Of course something needs to be done about the spammy, toxic cards not being defended tho

[@jwilliamjames1]

I like the suggestion of Gregoire being the only defender, as a neutral at 10p. Feels an elegant way of solving the problem, and recycles a dead card. I'd be interested in a video that presented the 6 ex-defenders reworked.

[@dexter265f3]

Good to see you here again Ace 🙏All the best for you🤟

[@Duello]

I 100% agree with your assessment of defender situation and loved your neutral card suggestion. When I was creating English language videos last year, I made a video listing all the problems with Gwent. Defenders was one of them. And I just wanted to get rid of defenders all together. But your suggestion is definitely better and more viable. I would love to see another discussion video like this in the future.

[@Kevin-sy3jt]

It feels like every other game is against Renfri. She's so strong and so tiring to play against.

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

I hear ya...I'm so sick of the same 3 overtuned decks every time

[@eden1408]

That's why neutral cards should be mostly tech cards and filler, not a deck defining powerhouse. If a class card is broken, we see it from time to time, when its neutral, its everywhere.

[@fapnawb]

Pretty much yeah, I've seen enough of her to last me a lifetime. Here's hoping they nerf her to unplayable level.

[@naoligo8469]

i'm hating nilfgaard decks this season, because they all have renfri and with assimilate they can use 4x leader against you, copy a card from your hand, then copy your leader skill use renfri's skill put it back in the deck and use it one more time...it's a pain in the ass for this faction to be the only one able to do that..then have players still say that skellieg is broken

[@alschirjaev9213]

ya what a shock that the gwent development team makes the same mistakes OVER AND OVER AND OVER. its why i havent bothered to play at all for months. they make cards that are too strong and too busted and then nerf them down the road sometimes into oblivion and then release more broken OP cards. just not fun

[@mikeman1866]

Thanks for the content Ace I quite enjoyed this style of video. More of these would be great.

[@revengeofthenerdsrevengeof5530]

Preach Brother!👊🏾Those scenarios are all trash. They’re all boost scenarios except for Skellige, and that’s the weakest one. Renfri is literally stronger than all the scenarios, she single handed plays for 27points at her lowest. It’s crazy. The biggest expansion, but all the cards are average. If you don’t have Renfri in your hand, you’re losing. Every deck I play, has Renfri. And Nilfgaard plays that card two, three times. Biggest expansion and everyone playing that single card. I mean, you kind of have to just to stay competitive.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Seriously, more than anything i feel what this game needs is to stop spamming the same card over and over, unless you have to use creative strategies involving at least 3 cards to do it in a Devotion deck, and there too in Max 2 rounds

[@jd2792]

The SK scenrio is insane just one order causes any unit to take double damge and in a removal deck you can just nuke board

[@-np9-]

I think there are niche decks in which defenders are good if not necessary. With the current powercreep a deck with many engines doesn't need a defender. But for a combo deck which depends on 3-4 cards a defender is essential. I think of a Bincy deck that I used to play for months and also Keltullis (to me it's fair, Keltullis alone even at less provision is a too fragile single engine that doesn't work in a deck full of engines, she need protection in some way). A single neutral defender can be a good idea for balance but at 10 provision it's too much for what it offer and what you have to sacrifice. To me the better (but not easier) solution is to give a second deploy ability based on row to some cards. Similar to Ida for ST, you have to chose between purifying something or using the ability of the card. Imagine if every archetype has 1 bronze with a second purify ability...this way if you want a tech card you don't have to sacrifice your deck building

[@uhrich11]

I agree but don't think devs will ever do it.....other options to fix could be making a buffer version of pellar that you could want to play even of you brick on needing the purity, and/or making defender status come with doomed status. Love your channel, bro!

[@theeternal0114]

What about change where defender status would only work for bronze cards, not golds? not letting you select bronze cards, just gold cards in a row. This way they would work as intended, protecting bronze engines, while letting you deal with all strong gold cards. And with that lower their provisions so they not become dead right away.

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

Interesting...or maybe they only protect units with less power or provisions than themselves? Like, only the little guys who need protection? Limiting to bronzes isn't bad either tho 🤔

[@alexandrefigs]

You have a point, the only time a defender worked as I think it was intended in my experience was in dwarves against a control list, because you can use Figgis to protect your berserkers and then protect Figgis with armor

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

I thought Scarab was a neat idea, I don't think defenders should be done with one purify, it's stupid

[@jd2792]

@@kaushalsuvarna5156 I am fine with it purfiy cards are mostly tech options and you still gain less tempo then killing the defender becuse they are all 6-4 points units and the defnders are 7 points the problem is that defnders can get resurected and are only used for answer or lose cards

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

@@jd2792 I understand your issue But on top of that i have issue with this purification of Defenders, doesn't make sense to me

[@JeanBriceGarito]

Totally agree on your point of vue. Almost every decks that use a defender are annoying to play against. One defender in the game with higher point base and provision cost is a good idea. Ace for President

[@revengeofthenerdsrevengeof5530]

Inari00, did a video on defenders as well. How are they defenders, when they don’t defend the board? As soon as I put it down, it’s purified and removed. Lol! They only protect the row they’re on, plus, other Allie’s units can still take random damage. I only defender in my deck, to remove the other opponents purify, Heatwave, or other removal card!

[@rogerfrench4780]

Just played five games four of them against witcher sabbath and kelli. So frustrating if you can't answer defender. Auto loss is so annoying.

[@ashdroid0755]

We do have a 4 provision option to counter defenders... Which doesn't really work against SY defenders Defender do make cards like syanna vysogota etc playable But also are used to abuse broken cards like sigvald kitty spam gerni spam... I think defender should get doomed status like scenarios So they are not resd again and again... They can't purify defender to res it either... Cus we play defender for the status and purify is bad for that

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

There are several counters to them, but I feel defenders are so game-defining sometimes that you're practically forced to play tech cards that you may not even draw in time. Giving them Doomed is an option, it would help a bit. I do have to argue with your point about Defenders making Syanna and Vysogota playable, because those cards don't seem very playable to me 😅

[@ashdroid0755]

@@AceOfPlaysGwent hey u'll hurt their feelings

[@sanjaychowdhury]

Personally, I don't mind Defender but what I do mind is replayablity of Defender. So, I would like to see Defender gain Defender status on Deploy. So, only Fucusya or Renew can replay it. But also I don't mind your idea.

[@Nick-ww2hq]

Love the discussion, would happily have more of these. All I really want to know is what in the nine realms is 'Norwegian Meta Breaker' why aren't we talking about that? Imposter is my favorite NG leader by a longshot. Much love to you Ace, awesome content. What do we do with the defender status? Get rid of it. Buff devotion, change these cards into faction-specific entities with unique synergies and effects. Neutral defender is cool. What about a card that 'infuses' defender status? Would that be weird and annoying?

[@sankalppanda7114]

Maybe adding a doomed tag to defenders would be good. Or just making purifies a little better.

[@jd2792]

My problem with defenders is how they can be resurrected kelly decks with sabbth being the worst one I think at least if you give the defnder doom you fix the issue where if you kill him he dosent come back for the next round but if you purfiy you used a cheaper option that still allow him to come back

[@Phanterinos]

I played gwent since it's first version in witcher 3 since today, so i have a 7 year point of wiew on it. I think that this game had it's beauty in the "less is more" philosophy. Like chess you dont need ton of pieces or keywords to make the game challenging and fun, you need a battleboard with in this case ranged units and melee units and make the strategy do the rest. I know that cdpr is a company that make money so they have to make the game appealing to newbies to make it profitable fot them. For me this game has a chance IF cdpr find a way to balance things without adding new stuff. the board and the sequencing must be valorized, there's a ton of dead card that needs to be valorized. And you can make weekly modes mpacting the ranked in some way. Sorry for the rant and the long post. Old fan of the channel here

[@thh8985]

I‘ve checked my deck builder and found three decks with a defender. The most played of this three is my SY Salamander list. Without defender it would probably be dead. Next one is the Sigvald - Knut - Melusine deck. Not one of my favorite’s and I play it mainly because of Cerys Fearless. I really like the concept of this card. Newest Defender list is Kitty Spam. At least I had to test the deck but I‘m not a fan. I dislike Witches Sabbath since it was released. For me one of the most toxic cards in the game. When it comes to the game in general. I can see what CDPR is aiming for and I can see the bright side. Three months ago they released GN and more or less all 9+ Provisions cards disappeared from the game for a month. Nice. The negative part was that all faction’s played the same 7 or 8 neutral cards. Boring. Now we’re in the Renfri season. With the demand of 25 units the special cards vanished from the game. Nice. Next season Renfri will get some changes, the newly introduced scenario’s will get stronger and the special cards will start to return. In month three Renfri will be in the same state as GN nowadays. Playable but not anymore dominating.

[@becausecontextmatters5260]

So at the end of the day, the problem is with "answer or lose" cards, not really defender. I remember this being a problem since early beta with Villentretenmerth, but yes sometimes i want to make a deck around a specific card and defender is a valuable card. Personally i'm fine with defender and i'm fine with your idea aswell, for me Ffion kinda died when they buffed Battle prep and made him 1 power, this means that he dies to Morkvark, so every time SK is meta, like how pirates are now, there is no point of playing Ffion. Also funny that you say how nuts going through a Cave trolls is, beucase few hours ago i played a game against some crazy cat person who made 3 cave trolls and revived them with Sabbath. Lastly you could make like a weekly custom cards thing, this would encourage more people into your discord too.

[@pavlenikic9712]

i made a break from gwent pretty much the same time you did, and i came back after your knights video. The power creep is in turbo mode. This is just ridiculous. Nilfgaard can casually play 3 bronze units for 40 points for no reason, use leader and then renfri. its so not fair and its so not fun. monsters are MONSTERS now. Skellige doesnt allow you to put a single card on deck and not a single turn can pass that they dont kill whatever is is you play. Really frustrating meta. i hate people making this game the way it is.

[@ashdroid0755]

They can bring covenant of steel, back with renew If it strikes thier fancy

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

At least it's expensive 🤷‍♂️

[@EH_1995]

Actually love the idea of one neutral defender and for all the current defenders to get new fun/interesting abilities. Hopefully CDPR consider this in the future

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

Yeah, even if you don't agree with me that Defenders are unhealthy, I think most people can agree that we'd rather have 1 neutral defender and some cool new legendaries instead!

[@kingk3245]

If purify didn't remove defender status it would be plausible to play one but I doubt that would be healthy either

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

I'm off Gwent for months every year n we've had discussions like these on this channel way back, and you always make nice points n are a youtuber for non-toxic Gwent players I've never liked the way defenders are implemented because they defend jack shit, they should not be purifiable I'd prefer they be 2-5 power with 2-3 armour, shield etc the way they are now, that's good What's not good, as you say, is spamming n toxicity, like why is poison still a thing It should take at least 3 poisons, or have timers or max 3/4 poisons per deck etc The game needs to be made less toxic, in other ways too, as you mention And great points, especially about building more devotion e.g. I used to love Caranthir on Unseen elder, protected by the veil leader, and now Caranthir doesn't support it and the whole strategy is extinct just like that Where's the fun in deck building, coming up with your own creative viable ideas, everyone using the same spammy toxic garbage bereft of any clever thinking Great video, always love to hear you

[@dzem5566]

I still don't understand why there are big removals in the game. Why can't the game be balanced considering that decks are stronger than other decks?

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

Not sure I understand what you mean?

[@dzem5566]

@@AceOfPlaysGwent I don't understand why Gwent has Scorch, corathi heatwave, Geralt: Professional, Imlerith's Wrath, Moreelse, Junod of Belhaven, Geralt: Yrden, Leo Bonhart, Geralt of Rivia, Vilgefortz, Geralt: Igni, Brehen, Graden, Vanhemar etc. Why can't I boost my unit by many points and enjoy? Why are there cards that can destroy almost any unit for a small price? They should cost 40-50 "food" points

[@sloppyslush9858]

@@dzem5566 imo it's for balance. We have bronzes than can boost for 20+ points, defenders, scenarios, cards that get out of control if not answered, etc. Plus they're nice tech options for decks that can't run 10+ removal cards and they're good support for the decks that are all about control. This patch is a perfect example, if control cards weren't a thing that sir scratch a lot sabbath deck would be literally unstoppable

[@xavi8819]

Yep they did again, meta still worse than the previous one. Why play 15 provision scenarios when you can play 25 points Renfri for 13 provision. And NG of course can replay it up to 3 or 4 times. Interesting suggestion with the neutral defender, would not mind it.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

I would prefer same defenders with less power n no purification, Scarabs are the best implementation IMO Also make them more potent in Devotion decks

[@ИванИванов-м4ю9р]

I think the problem is since cdpr decided to release only 4 cards per faction every expansion, they had to make almost every new card broken. The game has turned into a pure point slam

[@thh8985]

In one Dev stream they explained why it doesn't make anymore sense to release bigger expansions. When I remember correctly the explanation was linked to the already existing amount of cards (>1500) and the existing number of less frequent and not played cards. Reworking these cards and make them playable has a bigger value as adding new ones.

[@muhammedemingundem7835]

İ dont like defenders . But i dont think cdpr remove this cards neither. Cdpr not even follow the game . They just spamming cards and when players going to crayz then they are doing something . But... İf decide to change something i dont think they remove the defenders. They just put on something this cards and they expect gamers really enjoy with it . So ... İ think if they change mechanics i prefer counter . Like 2-3 counter then remove the defender tag. But i hope they delete those cards recent time

[@iusedtobeadventurerlikeyou1352]

I think that the game will just continue to get worse as long as the developers are printing new cards that make cards even from a few expansions back unplayable. When im making a deck these days i feel like i don't have competetive cards to choose from. We used to have some kind of a standard. 4 for 4 changed to 6 for 4 and conditional 4 for 7. Then we get 5 for 8 but then we get the pig witch that plays for 22 for 5??? Hello?

[@iusedtobeadventurerlikeyou1352]

I mean 7 for 4

[@iusedtobeadventurerlikeyou1352]

And 8 for 5

[@ydenko]

I think that they should be doomed, because bigger problem are cards like witches sabbath playing defender with an engine like kelly and then you are just f****d, and renfry and scratchy deff should be nerfed even though i play renfry because i like to win, tried playing some tactics and soldiers ng and it just sucks balls compared to the power of those cards

[@agitator6995]

I think Defender got a place or the game has to shange in principel. I like my damien, my Stefan....

[@brunolopes658]

It's the ultimate cheese card. I'm for banishing them from the game.

[@DLemass]

Hey ace, these videos are very good for diversity. Just a tip on the meta, I'm finding deedakios old congregate deck is working well against Kelly and alot of the renfri decks (assimilate renfri less so, but I think I misplayed). I've modded it to run heatwave for renfri and scenario. Maybe check it out as I think the archetype is being slept on. kzbin.info/www/bejne/an_Jd2uJmpqrqq8

[@ashdroid0755]

I can't change the video quality of the video.. I understand it's ur video... But at least let me change the quality

[@AceOfPlaysGwent]

The video just got uploaded, higher qualities will be available soon 👍

[@ashdroid0755]

@@AceOfPlaysGwent yeah it's changeable now

[@fapnawb]

I mean every deck runs a heatwave and locks are abundant so defenders are there to eat the hit before the engine does. Purify is the cheapest way to get rid of defender though.

[@kaushalsuvarna5156]

Yes my biggest problem with this Defender design, it should not be purifiable, beats the whole point n makes it tekky

[@jd2792]

Which is useless becuse you can res the defnder for the next round and no deck can justfiy running 2 purfiy cards becuse soany of them arent worth the tempo loss

[@daddypool4474]

Yay are we gonna get a custom/rework cards vid in the future Ace?! Cannot look at stuff like Cockatrice etc any longer. CDPR's balancing team needs to start workings properly