Gyrocopter future

10th April 2021 Webinar

[@johnkochel8576]

Very well done overview of the gyro market and all it’s complexity... I am currently in OshKosh and have been watching the nano development from its launch (so hopefully will fly one) and got to see this interesting electric version of the nano that is in development (100hp 🤯). See reply for photo if I can attach it...

[@mikefearn5213]

Brilliant assessment. Sadly with the direction things are heading in eVTOL, I also agree with you on where things are currently heading. Drones and quadcopters have become so common and popular a concept, people think they can build such things without really understanding the simplicity and efficiency of a single rotor system over many many small rotor systems applied in combination! One other company you're perhaps not aware of is Hummingbird gyrocopters based in Brazil, and they also have a couple of models in 2022 making factory built 1 and 2 person machines. The single seater being quite similar to the older Magni M18. That fitted with one of the cheaper non rotax engines is what I hope to get certified in New Zealand.

[@usaerospace6707]

You hit the nail on head. Keep gyroplanes simple.

[@Christoph1888]

Thanks for the comprehensive chapters. Great video.

[@johnmackay5288]

What an excellent, very relevant video. Very depressing regarding the outlook for simple gyros like the lovely Nano.

[@johnmackay5288]

..used to fly a Bensen and then a Cricket, sadly the prices of modern gyros have gotten ridiculous putting such a great experience way out of reach of the average flying enthusiast.

[@plasmaboy42]

Hope everyone will gyro soon..... Luv this shit..... Can't wait to fly

[@cybair9341]

Even as a basic Bensen type, the Gyro is substantially more expensive and difficult to build than a basic fixed-wing like a Weedhopper or a Scout. Add to that the higher training requirements and it becomes obvious that it can't even compete with basic fixed-wings... UNLESS one needs its superior flying qualities and portability.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey you can't deny that this seems to be the picture as it we see it but that said one the basis that the motor & airframe are broadly consistent and building a set of rotors shouldn't be significantly more expensive than building a set of wings one does wonder why a Bensen type needs to be any more expensive than fixed wings. Part of the issue today is that nobody is offering a basic Bensen type.

[@Make_Boxing_Great_Again]

Superior flying qualities? Like what? Tell me one significant thing that a gyro can do that a plane can’t?

[@cybair9341]

@@Make_Boxing_Great_Again - A gyro is more stable in turbulence than a fixed wing. That is even more important for basic single-seaters that are lightweight.

[@timothyrobinson6628]

Nano 50hp on order 😊

[@robertheywood141]

I'm excited to see this in the States. Should be one near me in a few months. I am concerned that even the fuel injected 50hp version might not be enough for high density altitudes (8,000-10,000ft + ) commonly found in Utah.

[@robertladwig6075]

Thanks for the update

[@peterboy209]

Keep it simple, reliable and affordable, 👍

[@chriscranston1646]

Thanks so much.

[@markthomasson5077]

Always been intrigued by gyroplanes, though have no experience of flying. So trust you don’t mind my question. Why no side by side two rotor configuration? Any advantages? I see with one clockwise one anti-clockwise, you have balance, and low rotor speeds not an issue.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey mark - no problems at all with the questions. So in helicopters the two rotor clock-wise / anti clockwise configuration was to deal with the torque produced and of course in the tandem rotor configuration one rotor cancel the torque of the other when the rotors are powered. However gyroplanes have no power to the rotor so the problem doesn't exist so no solution needs to be found. The first helicopter with this tandem relationship was the Focke FW61 - the worlds first practical helicopter. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_61

[@robertheywood141]

I am not an engineer! However.... I just googled Rotax engine prices and came up with this on the first website that came up. 582UL 65hp $5,785 912UL 80hp $17,258 912ULS 100hp $20,585 912iS 100hp $23,754 914UL 115hp $33,737 915iS 140hp $40,353 I don't know why their 4-stroke engines cost so much!!!!! My question is why can't they make a 2-stroke like the 582 but larger that puts out 150+ hp? It should be much lighter than an equivalent horsepower 4-stroke engine AND shouldn't cost that much more than the 582.

[@dedsert9653]

seems to me that a system to prevent sudden excessive movement of the stick while over a certain airspeed could do much to eliminate this hitting the tail rudder, if such movements were actually one of the main causes. e-vtol vehicles won't be cheaper than helicopters, and the people who use helicopters don't really care for fuel cost, so they'll probably just use SAF for the foreseeable future. the only people in that respect that care for efficiency are the military that want extra range, and this has been solved with the V-22, and the US military is confident enough in tilt rotors to choose the bell V-280 as the successor to the blackhawk.

[@robertladwig6075]

I miss your live stream, but awesome info.

[@apsestasis]

I think paramotors have effectivelly killed single seat recreational aircraft. They're extremely portable, quite cheap, low regulation, easy to fly, can take off and land in a field. The only real advantages a gyro has appear to br higher speed and much better resistance to weather. Please correct me if i'm wrong here. I'm a paramotor pilot, that would love to get into single seat bensen type gyros due to them being much less demanding on wrather when compared to a paramotor

[@cybair9341]

apsestasis - Good point. The better ability to handle turbulence is why I'm building a gyro right now.

[@apsestasis]

@@cybair9341 that's why i'm thinking about it too, but that's a lot of hassle and expense for what's essentialy the same recreational role. I'm just sick of not being abke to fly due to gusty winds and turbulence

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi - in essence your point about wind and a gyroplane v paramotor is correct however like all things when you start that advantage will be marginal. To put some gyroplane numbers on things as a new pilot I think anything over 10knots starts to become stressful and it is a wiser pilot who builds up their experience in a gradual and unhurried manner. i.e. 10knots becomes 12, becomes 13 etc likely over the course of a year of flying. And if you take a break from flying build things back up again slowly.

[@apsestasis]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 thanks for the very informative reply! 10knots is perfect wind for paramotors. How about thermals through? As far as i've researched at least on paper gyros due to the very high wing loading appear to be very resistant to them.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi - for very high wing loading you might mean blade loading? and its usual that if blade loading is substituted for disc loading then it isn't actually all that high - remember most modern 2 seat gyroplanes have 28ft diameter rotors. In fact if we look at the popular Quik flexwing microlight then at typical wing might be 11 square meters, the gyro is 57! and both weigh broadly the same. A gyro does have the advantage that its rotor has a typical tip speed of 350-400mph which has good penetration. My own view on what you might want to fly for fun and why is that a gyroplane is very manoeuvrable and with time on the aircraft you'll likely get comfortable flying certainly in 20-25knt wind which is likely challenging for a paramotor.

[@robertspivey46]

Like most aircraft companies, price themselves out of business. When it comes to aviation there is no such thing as affordable.

[@terrylutke]

Perhaps in the 1930's gyros did offer some engine-out and stall risk peace of mind. Post Benson evolution gyros tend toward $100k machines that easily under perform a basic 1940's Taylor Craft, which cost +- $25,000. Also the Taylor Craft will likely hold it's value for decades to come. Modern gyros are a rare example of spending more to get less (less in terms of depreciation, utility, range, economy, safety & speed). Gyro marketers are now trying to displace helos, which seems like a fool's errand. You've already pointed out reasons why. I'm involved in powered para, a sport which is has it's own basket of risk and limitations, but we know what these are. It's remains an accessible sport that doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey Terry yes I broadly agree with that. The bigger manufacturers [particularly AutoGyro] have gone down a more and more "sophisticated" route which has driven prices. Although in some ways their thinking has been driven by the fact that when they offer expensive options they sell quite well - so the Rotax 915 engine option as an example [which alone is what? $50k]. The real change however is the environment / regulation / market desire. I'm in the UK and back in even the early 2000's there was a keen interest in self build gyro's but that has changed dramatically over 20 years. They changed the regulations so you couldn't train on a single seater and naturally that drives people away and an entire area of what was fertile kit aircraft has gone. I fly fixed wing also and in many ways a gyroplane is a different thing tbh. A lot over focus on the gyroplane take off / landing performance as measured by take off and landing distance. But that isn't really the key positives of a gyro. The main two for me are overall visibility and cross wind ability. Blue skies.

[@terrylutke]

Of course I'm not trying to rain on anyone's favorite flying fantasy. I'd dare say most folks involved with recreational aviation have mentally toyed with 'going' gyro, I certainly have. If someone's gyro enthusiasm isn't damped by statistics, at least they're now denied entry by affordability. There has been serious price creep in all forms of ultralight aviation. Near fanatical adoption of Rotax 4 stroke power carries much of the blame, IMO.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

@@terrylutke "Near fanatical adoption of Rotax 4 stroke power carries much of the blame, IMO." yes 100%

[@terrylutke]

​@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 A topic not often discussed is the unavailability and/or cost of airport hanger space. Here in the States, hanger space is over populated by out-of-annual FW machines with disinterested owners. This creates space shortage, waiting list, and artificial rental price inflation. Powered para, flex wing and gyro (probably), can be routinely stored/transported by enclosed trailer. A WIN for gyro's:)

[@jamesschmidt5200]

Mr. Bennett, Would like to get in touch with you to discuss advanced training and maneuvering techniques. Am an eighty hour gyro pilot and interested in your thoughts.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi you can email me at [e-mail]

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

This was hilarious! Having someone who knows about Gyrocopters review ridiculous concept planes was great fun. I have 2 questions; * I saw some specs for a helicopter that said 'choosing wheels > landing skids reduces drag by 10 knots. How much drag do the wheels cause on a gyrocopter? * Can you please produce more content soon? Do you have plans to?

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey - yeah what has been very frustrating for me is that there are some great innovation and superb engineering minds in aeronautics but often over the years - especially gyroplane wise - the efforts have been wasted trying to make a round peg fit in a square hole. Same currently where AutoGyro are focused upon autopilot but at the same time in the uk the rotor blades need 100hr inspections because of issues. To answer the points 1 - yeah wheels reduce drag because the wheels can be retracted and that makes the airframe cleaner, however it adds weight and complexity so really depends on the need. Point 2 - yes indeed I will. So the channel started as a training aid to my own students then in lock down [coronavirus meant in the UK you had to stay at home] I did the history series for fun and to give some context to the area of aviation. Then with all that done and the virus really hurting the flying business it meant I went back to finance and motor racing [my prior background] and earnt some money. Enough time has passed that we should have some new topics to cover. Thanks for sticking with me! Anything you would like to see covered?

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

​@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 I'm in the UK myself, I got into amateur aeronautics during the lockdown. I've got a notebook filled with ideas for a ideal Gyrocopter (contra-rotating prop, retractable skids, etc...) My dream was to buy a kit, upgrade it, get it checked out and fly around the UK with it. It doesnt surprise me that when the bureaucrats arent busy putting their hand in your pocket/charging a fee, they're regulating things to death. Whereabouts are you located? I cant think of a specific topic for you to cover but, based on your previous videos, I know whatever you come up with will be a good watch. Can I ask though, I've read contra-rotating props result in greater thrust, but would that be true for autogyros? The information i've found is for planes and speedboats only.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

@@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 I think that of all the challenges involved in bringing a new kit to the UK and gaining a permit a contra rotating prop becomes further pain and if extra thrust is the aim then it isn't really needed. In terms of why they work in simple terms its just more prop area without making the props so long that they risk hitting the ground. UK gyroplanes are all but dead. A combination of inattention to the changing rules and regulations, the allowing of one individual to manipulate the environment to exploit a commercial self interest which meant to complete destruction of the wider training community and single seat. Rather than push against the CAA and demand wider engagement they this individual embraced things and now I read this from the BRA in April 2023.. www.britishrotorcraftassociation.org/post/wake-up-call

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 I'd be happy to volunteer for one of those positions if training were provided.

[@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 I have couple more questions, if you dont mind. If Im in a gyro and I face a big headwind, would it make my gyro faster (faster blades and all) or would it slow it down like everything else? do gyros suffer from retreating blade stall? would 3 gyro blades increase stability when flying through rough weather, allow the gyro to carry more weight and/or go faster? can gyros fly through worse weather than planes and helicopters?

[@gobstoppa1633]

purfect

[@steveholt8991]

Anyone know anything about the Xenon gyrocopter ? Is it still in production ?

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi - and there is a confusion set of brands.. There is a film on the channel about the differences.

[@embededfabrication4482]

what's the best ultralight gyro kit these days?

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi - This is based purely upon impressions as these aircraft are not possible to fly in the UK but if you are in the US it would be and I'd take a look here :- www.flynanogyro.com/about-nano

[@embededfabrication4482]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 ya....base price 26.5K EURO. prices are crazy these days. ultralights for the price of a cessna 152! I picked up a kolb firestar for 3500 bucks and refurbished it for now but I want a gyro too, gotta find an old benson

[@RonLWilson]

There might be a niche military application of gyrocopters in that Taiwan faces the threat of an air/sea invasion from mainland China and all their airbases are in missiles range from mainland China. And even though their military aircraft are protected in hardened shelters and even underground tunnels their runways might be shut down by a massive missile attack and thus they may be limited to generate combat sorties on day one of an invasion, just when they might be needed the most, that being as Rommel said about the invasion of Europe in WW2, the longest day. As such gyrocopters could be armed with Stinger AA and Javelin AT missiles (both being light weight/man portable weapons but having good stand off range) and fill that void left by all those grounded aircraft during such an invasion. And only requiring short runways and even can use grass fields or roadways and thus could be dispersed and thus hard to take out with missiles. And Taiwan not being all that large these could mass on any invasion site where the ground forces would be spread out along the entire eastern coastline since they might not know where those invasion sites are prior to nay invasion just as was the case back in 1944 where the Germans had to defend a huge section of coastline. And since a gyrocopter can fly slow and low it might be hard to be tracked by fighter radars in that they might be lost in the clutter and just look like ground vehicles. And a military such as Taiwan's could then train a cadre of gyrocopter pilots say as air force reservist and this in turn might enable some commercial applications in having that trained cadre of pilots. And BTW, mainland China seems to employ gyrocopters for military use as well. e.g. see kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6bPZqGOZ5l6g5I And the way one might sell this idea to the Taiwan Airforce is that if manned by reservist that could give them part time flying jobs once they leave the service where they can still be paid to fly (in that all can't be airline pilots and such).

[@RonLWilson]

BTW, I just made a quickie KZbin video on this where I explore this idea a bit more in depth. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqLQiZePnpp9oqs

[@bernardtetreault3540]

For me as a rancher farmer I want cheap safe vertical take off and landing simple design and maintenance with sustancial payload for spray application . High speed not necessary . Basically a simple cheap helicopter period .

[@fretfiler42]

Please boost audio. Everything full up hear and barely can hear you. Thanks

[@fretfiler42]

Sorry, fixed on my end. Sounds good

[@fretfiler42]

When will the new 52 hp motor be ready

[@alastairmellor966]

How can you jump from Cierva to Bensen without even mentioning Raoul Hafner? By doing so you miss the jump from the fully articulated rotor of Cierva to the simpler teetering rotor used today. Benson got into gyroplanes by evaluating and then copying Hafner's Rotachute which introduced the simple teetering rotor a design further developed for the Rotabuggy.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hello Alastair - what you need is a webinar I did over a year ago.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3mym36be9Zjh6c

[@halfrhovsquared]

Everyone is jumping on the multirotor bandwagon thanks to cheap drones… People are even calling these things “passenger drones” which shows just how little they actually know. These people think that “drone” is synonymous with “multirotor”. Multirotors are so easy to fly that any idiot can fly one. However, they only fly so well because they are being flown by a flight-controller and cannot be flown manually. There are far too many modes of failure for these idiotic aircraft and pretty much every one of them will result in fatality. They absolutely cannot autorotate or glide to a landing. Lose power and you’re a passenger riding a brick.

[@kevinjones9456]

Hi

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hello