History of the Gyroplane - part 24 modern tractor gyroplanes

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Part 24 the history of the gyroplane. A couple of you have asked about pusher v tractor configuration and why is it that Little Wing are the only tractor configured gyroplane offered for sale right now. Good question, but there have certainly been a lot of light gyroplanes built in tractor configuration.
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[@crawford323]

I have purchased two Little Wing plans over the years but never have begun the process. I absolutely love the design.

[@gregorybrown4062]

Me too

[@markhull1366]

Well, that certainly answered my question that I sent you last night. Talk about timing! I was guessing aesthetics, visibility were primary, but it was only a guess. This video confirmed that. Thanks! I really didn't consider the engine noise and prop wash because so many of our untralights and LSA's are tractor design. Building upon your video, efficiency IMO, would be pretty low in consideration for today's LSA gyros. Fun and enjoyment are probably #1 and eye appeal next. It is a business to make a profit after all. Which, gets us back to Bensen's original goal, cheap fun. Except there's nothing cheap about today's modern gyro. (Sigh) The early builders goals were efficiency/practicality hence tractor, like a fixed wing airplane.

[@michaelmartinez1345]

Personally, from what I have heard about pusher prop gyros, there were designs that had a high thrust line... I have heard that those are the ones that are more susceptible to 'bunting over'... And when that happens when the plane is in flight- I heard that it is almost always Fatal... This is Why I have been looking at a possible kit to build that uses a tractor prop... Even if it is a scratch- built design from plans, I would prefer to fly a tractor-prop gyro plane.

[@Tecnobingo]

I love tractor configuration, tailwheel-type landing gear. I am not a technician, so I can't talk about the pro's and the con's of the two solutions. Simply I like best: to have the propeller in front of me, high on the ground, far from anything that might hit it (also something that could get loosed from the cockpit), working in "clean" unobstructed air, far from the main rotor (it always works high in the front of the gyrocopter), a good landing gear able to run smoothly on "rough" airfield, the attitude of the vehicle helping to naturally keep the main rotor far from the tail surfaces, good designed aluminum alloy blades (not extruded). It is La Cierva or Pitcairn concept, I believe; and the way that the Bulldog mast was designed helps greatly to improve the visibility. But the companies are focused on making money: they aren't really interested in designing something good to fly: only good to sell and make money. So you can find carbon fiber in every pocket (because is fashionable), but not handy, practical designs. This is my mind. The nowadays gyrocopter are very simple to build; in spite of this simplicity they have got ridicolous prices: the main reason that keep me away from a gyrocopter. I can get better performances for my money buying an aircraft...

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Yes I was quite disappointed when the Bulldog didn't gain any traction and in 2020 pricing has got to a point where it is really starting to limit the market place. Take a look at the film I've just done on the NANO.

[@tamerofhyenasmesame1691]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 HI)) Greetings from the Republic of Georgia!I am a heartfelt viewer of your channel))I live in Georgia, where the Caucasus Mountains are, I am very interested in safe flying machine (for tourists to explore nature) I have a few questions for you. 1)How Safe is the Giroplan in the Mountains Where Helicopter Crashes Are Frequent Due to Thermal Downstream Air Currents?I have often heard that a helicopter crashed in the mountains due to thermal air currents when there was no engine power. 2)Therefore, which device is safer in the mountains? Helicopter or gyroplane? 3)Are there any statistics on tractor-shaped gyroplanes crashes? Because I find this shaped device safer than with a back screw))Thank you very much.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Tamer of Hyenas Mesame hi let me answer you tomorrow

[@tamerofhyenasmesame1691]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 Thank you))

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

@@tamerofhyenasmesame1691 Hi - sorry I was on a camping holiday and just got back. OK on the safety point the problem of thermals that are strong enough to crash a helicopter is that a gyroplane is much lighter than even the usual basic helicopter (such as R22/44). so assuming the helicopter accidents due to thermals were exactly that (i.e. not overloaded or poorly flown) and assuming the piloting skills are equal - if you have a problem in a heli then you will too in a gyro. To answer your point 2) which is safer then really theoretically weight for weight and power for power a gyroplane should be safer as it has no gearbox to go wrong but in practice the helicopter is build by more sophisticated companies today than a gyroplane and so that is mitigated. For answer to point 3) the statistics are skewed because most modern and sporting gyroplanes are with a pusher design and some of the accidents here are very silly pilot related. Hope that helps.

[@soddinnutter5633]

I remember reading on a gyroplane forum that the guys behind the Phenix autogyro got stuck in various regulatory stuff, and the proceedings are advancing at a snail's pace. Which is a shame since the Phenix looks quite nice.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Yes that is a real shame - although I also read that they seemed to be aiming the aircraft at the commercial user? But that is a very stoney path!

[@kimkeam2094]

You are doing a great job and I have learned far more from you than the many giro instructors I spoke to in Australia. There was a tractor autogiro called a pit bull, an American design and 4 blades, not two. Powered by a Rotax engine as was a really nice looking aircraft. I have a video tape of it going through about 30 minutes of flight and a overview of the aircraft if you’re interested.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey Kim - firstly thanks for watching and the very kind comments. That sounds very interesting the 4 blade aircraft - rotor I assume. Was the rotor designed by a guy from New Zealand? I've seen Pit Bulls but with only 2 blade rotors so that is unusual.

[@kimkeam2094]

I was surprised when I saw it the first time. I’ll convert the video to mp4 and let you know when it’s ready.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Thanks Kim it sounds very interesting- let me dig out what I can on 4 blade rotors

[@jameschristiansson3137]

@@kimkeam2094 Would like to see that too.

[@kimkeam2094]

I have it on vhs video tape, and will post it as soon as I can transfer it. Sorry for the delay but my vhs player has refused to work lately.

[@RichardGoth]

another great video- thanks!

[@cameronlapworth2284]

Nice to see the Wire gyro. I quite like the rudder response of pusher too although I quite like the tractor apperence.

[@nzsaltflatsracer8054]

Arguably the better looking & most simple of the modern tractor designs is the Putbull, which you didn't even mention here. The quality of the kit was obviously quite good but the one I have suffered from some poor workmanship beyond that & that ugliness is what I'm working removing right now. It's the SS with an EA81 & was in BC Canada. I'd sure be interested in talking to anybody that's had anything to do with them.

[@RodCrosby]

I think it is no longer in production, since 2013 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oWa4go2pnsutes0

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hey - yes you're right the Pitbull does look quite faithful to an older Cierva - I didn't cover it actually because a lot were missed, simply because of the 4-5min film can't allow for all. I just gave some colour on some odd / interesting or impactful models. One feature of gyroplanes is the vast number of "what might have been" and the common theme of commercial failure. Its a pity.

[@nzsaltflatsracer8054]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 Yeah, there certainly is a lack of info on the Pitbull for sure. Through my digging for info it looks like there were at least a dozen kits sold before the company caved in & when this one I have popped up for sale in Canada I bought it over the phone & hit the long road to go get it. Ironically it appears the only one still flying is also owned by a Kiwi down in NZ.

[@z_actual]

For a type that is given to STOVL, really a taildragger is a natural, and this fits the tractor configuration too I cant recall seeing a trike STOL or STOVL ever, because there is some advantage in having the springy maingear with a direct force line through the mast or wing. While that settles near zero roll landings, the machine at rest has a disc or rotor attitude that presents to the wind better and gives the prop more clearance, and a larger diameter for better performance at these speeds I think the fuselage structure is more complicated, perhaps until you have to add a horizontal tail to an Igor Bensen type pusher, which surprisingly some are still reluctant to do I think I would expect a slightly heavier but better performing machine, and still better performance than pusher enclosed types but on equal weight

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

I think the STOL ability of a gyroplane has been focused upon more in recent years than likely during the time of the invention of sporting gyros in the 50's/60's. The main advantage of a pusher for a Bensen type is the fact the prop wash is away from the pilot and not into his face!

[@z_actual]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 yes I get that. The inverse is happening too though, with the higher end enclosed machines that are also pushers. Roll back to 1939, the Kellet KD-1B of which 2 were built, as flying off the roof of a 10 storey building several times a day! this is lovely kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6DciKada6mrpNE&ab_channel=MMCService

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Yes but don't forget that vision is degraded by a great big motor and prop stuck up front. Back in the 20's/30's gyroplanes grew out of fixed wing fuselage / motor combinations and that made sense because no point in re-inventing 80% of the aircraft.

[@z_actual]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 sure is in this Kellets case, except for the same machine with an inline often represented by the Kayaba in Japanese service. At the same time it looks like electric giros would be practical at about the same time electric fixed wing aircraft are

[@PRH123]

Would you say thag also having the engine in front of the pilot is better in case of an accident...? Tractors also tend to have the pilot sort of nestled under or behind the mast... Accidents can happen in various attitudes, but nose first-ish is rather common.... as opposed to having the pilot be the first thing to meet the ground...

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Hi - Interesting point in the sense of is a tractor better for dynamics and the honest answer to that is I don't know as there are few being made today and the pusher types that are common are in the main quite poorly designed. In regards to the crashing part the reality is that most only tend to genuinely crash an aircraft once - the structures are built necessarily light and all that happens in a significant crash is the engine arrives in the pilots lap.

[@hadleymanmusic]

Little nellies cool but I kinda like the old school

[@RodCrosby]

I think the first pusher was the Buhl A-1 in 1931 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buhl_A-1_Autogyro

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Thanks for that I’d missed that!

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

At about 03:13 in this video: A _Scorpion_ home-built helicopter cabin?

[@shimy333]

stupid question..just curious though..why aren't there any canards on any of the gyroplanes?

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Not really sure what purpose they would sure tbh. For lift you’d have a wing and control wise the rotor is big enough!

[@russbell6418]

I like the idea of a Littlewing style machine with main gear mounted on canards a’ la Q200, but there are some concerns with it. 1) Anhedral (opposite of dihedral) is destabilizing in roll 2) Developing lift in forward flight/forward stick could tend to unload the rotor, leading to speed degradation or rotor flap.

[@RodCrosby]

An interesting question is "Will capacity ever be more than 2-seats?"

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Yes certainly but it requires a change in regulation for sport gyros in Europe and a wider demand before someone takes on the expense. AutoGyro are looking at a 4 seater

[@theredbluecaptain2742]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 just add 2 structures on the sides, put 2 engines in there and next to them, plus behind - 3 additional passengers, also fuck the law, there is no police in the air!

[@johngardiner1630]

Observation: a tractor tends to Increase air pressure under the rotor, while a pusher Decreases air pressure under the rotor, that, and the many times demonstrated short take off of the original tail wheel La Cierva aircraft.

[@gyrocopterflyingclub6148]

Question because I am unsure the point. Why would a pusher decrease air pressure under the rotor??

[@johngardiner1630]

@@gyrocopterflyingclub6148 Pusher propeller location approx 2-3 ft behind the pilot induces a lower pressure air under most of the main rotor except for the few feet. behind the propeller. A tractor produces a higher air pressure under most of the rotor simply by the propeller action.

[@russbell6418]

La Cierva had jump takeoff capability with variable pitch rotors. Apples and oranges.

[@stephenrickstrew7237]

Your very right … those tractor types can’t be called “pretty “.