Hacker News Triggered By NeoVim

Recorded live on twitch, GET IN
/ theprimeagen
Article Link:
Author:
MY MAIN YT CHANNEL: Has well edited engineering videos
/ theprimeagen
Discord
/ discord
Have something for me to read or react to?: / theprimeagenreact

[@artifishul]

I started using Neovim a few years ago and immediately grew to be over 6'7" and instantly sold my company for a billion dollars. Thank you TJ, very cool.

[@shroomer3867]

How to tell you use NvChad without telling you use NvChad

[@kenb1]

Neovim also grows you an extra set

[@shroomer3867]

@@kenb1 And promotes you to the "1000x engineer" rank immediately upon installation.

[@tacokoneko]

i use almost only normal vim not neovim just some plugins and settings i prefer in vimrc, am i the weird person

[@Boxing_Gamer]

Happened to me to man, its kind of weird

[@michaelscofield4524]

folke (the creator of LazyVim, lazy.nvim, tokyonight.nvim, flash.nvim, etc.) I think has acquired the role that tpope had for regular vim. The man is creating so many extensions and plugins of such high caliber. And maintaining ALL OF THEM, the guy is insane.

[@jhossepmartinez1771]

pillars of the community

[@flarebear5346]

You can't pay these people enough. I don't think I will ever be able to repay them

[@MrAlanCristhian]

That guy has a life?

[@DonjiKong]

I’ll never understand ther stupidity of maintaining two different projects that use the same word lazy. It’s very confusing.

[@jaredteaches894]

@@MrAlanCristhianhe runs a company I believe

[@ShadoFXPerino]

20:58 Nails it for me. It's basically like if 85% of the world use Phillips (plus-shape) head screws and 2% of the world use Robertson (square-shape) screws. People carrying Phillips screwdrivers want to screw every hole, and then see a square and get mad. People carrying Robertson screwdrivers never had the need to screw every single hole in existence, if they did they'd never buy a Robertson. So when they see a plus they aren't bothered, and they are content with screwing just their own holes. 24:55 VSCode settings configuration generally does not involve heavy json digging. Just press Ctrl+{comma} and text search for the setting you want to change and it is presented to you with a clean GUI.

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

but you have to know what you are searching for. its a heavy search first design and if you want anything programmatic, it becomes impossible (for some things)

[@ShadoFXPerino]

@@ThePrimeTimeagen Nothing's totally foolproof if the user is unfamiliar with the system, but compared to NVim (or even JetBrains offerings) it's straightforward, comparatively reliable, and flexible. And when there's a desire for stitching together chunks of someone else's config the JSON is there for you. Heck, if you commit the workspace .vscode directory into source control, the editor will do the stitching for you. Commit a .devcontainer config and VSCode will stitch in a docker container too.

[@vorrnth8734]

Pozidrive and Torx user here.

[@nskeip]

"There is an idea that you have to have that NEWEST thing" Realized that a couple of months ago. Started asking myself "What the hell I switch to %that new thing% for?" and most of the time sticked to things that are just GOOD ENOUGH - saved huge amount of time.

[@gfixler]

Old things people still use have proven themselves. New things still need to do this.

[@MrMeltdown]

yup. still using perl as my goto lang....

[@roccociccone597]

The thing about VSCode is it works with a single click until it doesn't at which point you'll be spending 10 times the amount of time fixing the issue because all our traffic goes through a proxy. So you're just digging through json files trying to find the correct option, except it's not documented basically anywhere.

[@dansanger5340]

I am definitely NOT in the "I want to be able to customize everything" camp. I don't even change my default desktop wallpaper. Using VSCode with the popular plugins means one less thing I have to worry about. Definitely no NeoVim for me.

[@Trizzi2931]

Just use whatever works for you. I see all these vscode vs vim thing kinda stupid. All these guys probably code in languages that have to deal with backend, web development or system level programming. They forget that there is whole world of programming outside these scope. E.g game development. Android/ios app development. Thay all need their own set of tools and no point in configuring vim to do that as it will never come close to original tools and support by the company. I my self have been using vim for about my entire development career but never have i ever pushed someone to use. use whatever gets the job done.

[@Burgo361]

As neovim newbie (about a week) I am genuinely impressed how solid the documentation and guides are for it, at this point I have it looking nice I have lsp stuff autocomplete etc. a debug setup updated manuals for C++ and a bunch of other things all integrated in with very little conflict and I'm pretty much happy and setup for everything I would want.

[@stefanplusplus917]

liar

[@Burgo361]

@@stefanplusplus917 Not saying it was easy it was just a lot easier than I expected haha and to update that I started to have some trouble when I tried to integrate gdb to debug cpp it works but not smoothly at all

[@MrZombastic]

@@stefanplusplus917no, same experience for me. Or i guess you could say we are both liars.

[@arizona_ranger_connoisseur]

C++ mentioned

[@ashleydavis3318]

There's almost too much documentation in my experience. I am liable to fall into a bottomless rabbithole any time I try to look up something simple.

[@Mel-mu8ox]

16:42 Complaint: There are multiple ways to do something. Solution: We need a multi hammer, so we don't have to look for the right tool for the job

[@LionKing-qp1lk]

we need a hammer factory config factory to build right config factory to build the best tool for everyone

[@iamvalenci4]

@@LionKing-qp1lk already exist and is called vs code

[@BboyKeny]

@@LionKing-qp1lk written in Java

[@gagagero]

Or how about you do the obvious thing and reduce the problem to only doing things in one way? Like every other editor out there?

[@Mel-mu8ox]

@@gagagero The obvious thing....??? The only obvious thing about programming is that there is no "one way" for every problem or use case. But I agree, we should all use the one editor that's worked so well it stands the test of time.... The obvious one size fits all "One Way" Notepad :D

[@oleg4966]

I think that by "using vim for small changes", people mean stuff like editing nginx configs or htaccess files, browsing through logs, that kind of stuff. Small server-side jobs that are a lot faster in vim than in nano, but still take less than 1% of their overall coding time.

[@bryce.ferenczi]

VSCode plugins are always breaking, there's a 10% probability that pylint will work correctly on a given machine. The broke attaching to pods in kubernetes with 1.80.

[@pnk4996]

No they don’t. Neovim is better, but when u lie you make neovim look bad

[@chris.dillon]

I wish everyone good fortune in the Editor War. ❤

[@benjnse]

Long live the editor war, may it never end. After all hasn't it been going on for at least 50 years now?

[@rj7250a]

​@@benjnseWar with Oceania never ends. Glory to Big Brother!

[@dionysis_]

⚔️

[@JeremyNicoll]

Wishing you survival and success in these trying times.

[@dorianvedel1910]

@@binladen-ci7jm You don't stand a chance as long as I keep using MS Word

[@akaidk2199]

my story with vim was slow, mainly i started using it and stuck with it for a few years. first it was low stakes stuff at first, home sysadmin type stuff like editing conf files, then I used it as a personal typewriter (editing copy made me fall in love with modal text editing). with little bit of time you pick up more and more things, apply it to more diverse tasks, and now it fits like a glove. i totally get it being hard at first but very worth to stick with it

[@demolazer]

I got into Vim accidently while doing a lot of Linux shell stuff myself setting up my home server network. A happy accident.

[@rafaelbordoni516]

I think the people complaining about the time to setup Neovim do have a point. Vim/Neovim get a lot of flack for vim motions but these should be treated as a separate thing at this point, pretty sure most IDEs have plugins for vim motions at this point so you don't need to use Neovim for vim motions. No, Neovim is for people who legitimately like to customize their environment. For us, that "time it takes to setup" is the whole point. It changes the way you think about UIs, actually. You take that to the next level and you get ricing Arch Linux enthusiasts.

[@bdkamil95]

That’s why there are setups like lazyvim that are ready to use with good defaults

[@La0bouchere]

This is mostly true, but pretty much all of those editor plugins are missing some of vim motions. And the motions themselves tend to be harder to customize than in nvim.

[@nisonatic]

@@La0bouchere They're always missing something absolutely critical like the dot.

[@hazmat86]

This. I rice Arch, btw.

[@Anriuko]

Blessed be the day upon thou fellow traveler, may thy path be full of riches and thy spirit led by light. Wouldst thou like to talk about our savior, Richard Stallman? He hath a message of joy to be delivered unto the world.

[@nanthilrodriguez]

Learned VIM early on. Switched to VSCode for a windows project, using VIM extensions. One day I went to write an edit macro on a 20k line legacy file... it took 10 minutes to execute. What? I thought this was instant in VIM. So I got MINGW installed and set up, tested the same macro in vim... Instant. never looked back. (Although I occasionally use emacs + evil mode too!)

[@buzzy4227]

I recently started my Neovim journey (I tried the vscode vim extension thing it didn't click, so I just jumped right in to vim.) While I don't know if all the setup will be worth it productivity wise I will say that the learning experience is absolutely necessary. A while ago I got stuck after a vscode extension broke. I spent hours trying to figure out what the problem was, only to find out that it was a glitch, I then spent hours trying to find a work around before giving up and putting my project on hold. The problem is that I didn't know what the plugin was doing under the hood, and I didn't know how it was doing it. With Neovim it is not only necessary, but also easier to learn how your tools work. Even if I have to go crawling back to vscode one day (please no) I am fairly certain that what I learned setting up a Neovim configuration will still be valuable.

[@langnostic5157]

Python folks can't argue about the package manager complaint. Making, distributing, maintaining, and even just installing deps for a script or app is kinda a nightmare in python, ngl.

[@malaista]

How so? It's literally just pip install -r and passing in a literal txt file? There isn't a lot of guess-work involved unless your requirements file grows to something over 10 or 15 direct dependencies (not counting dependencies of your dependencies). That + virtualenv takes care of MOST of the problems you could POTENTIALLY have in Python. PIP is such a god-send compared to package managers in most other languages.

[@theherk]

@@malaista pip has struggled with nested dependency resolution in the past; idk about now. Plus there is pipenv, poetry, conda. Then virtualenv isn't alone either, with pyenv and pyvenv. Then distutils used to not use TLS, so you had to use twine, but maybe distutils uses TLS now, so unclear. That's just it, nothing is very clear with python build and distribution. Some people like that. Some don't. Should I build a wheel? Or maybe pants and pex? Hmm. Give me cargo, or give me cake.

[@heroe1486]

You're over exaggerating, for large projects it's possible and even likely without the right tools but not for a script, for that and even simple projects venv alone get you covered, add piptools for more goodness, pyenv optionally if you want a specific python version and your distro doesn't easily give that

[@malaista]

@@theherk PIP has gotten better at dependency resolution but it's obviously not perfect like most package managers with big dependency sets. PIP and virtualenv are packaged with Python since Python 3, no reason not to use them since they use TLS natively. Conda is the choice thwt only made sense whrn Python2 was the standard. Always build wheels. (Organized and Standardized by a PEP). ALL else is fluff and shouldn't be used in general.

[@marcs9451]

Devs who create dependency hell daily complaining about packer and Plug lmao

[@giuseppematheus]

It would be awesome call folke to a chat, the audience gonna sky rocketed. How is it possible for a human to create so many vim plugins, plugin manager, vim distro, the best tokyonight I ever seen, cool stuffs, maintain them, and have a life/run a enterprise/be surfist idk? He's like a Terry A. Davis vim version, but with social life.

[@zeocamo]

21:54 formating in node got a lot of tools yes, but the one most use is prettier, and if you use deno then you can use deno format, as it is build in.

[@TheKastellan]

I change my file structure for personal projects the moment I feel it would "make more sense", I absolutely WILL spend all my time configuring vim. So no. Not using it.

[@marcs9451]

You need self discipline not a new editor :/

[@demolazer]

I avoided Neovim for a while because I thought it took many hours of study to set up. Then found it actually took me roughly 20 mins to set up with all the major features. Downloaded Kickstarter then googled and copy pasted the lines to activate my LSPs or minor things like tab space number for different languages. I've no idea what most of my init.lua even does. And I love it! My absolute favourite feature is that in insert mode there are no ugly lines or pop ups, so I'm not disturbed while typing. Then in normal mode I immediately see any mistakes with unobtrusive error message boxes that are away from the text. The constant yellow or red underlines in VS code annoyed me a lot while typing.

[@geektechtips]

What are the opinions if we compare AstroVim vs LazyVim?

[@stormsnow315]

how you config your neovim to switch working directory in 35:18? seems like your key binding is Ctrl + f

[@kr12a2y]

Hold up - you use dvorak with vim? I never tried or heard of this - wouldn't all the movement be weird with that?

[@rustafarian_dev]

Maybe Neovim should have a default package manager

[@reisaki18]

then it would look like a proprietary garbage if that happens.

[@KManAbout]

​@reisaki18 so rust is proprietary because it has a default package manager 😂

[@Amaraticando]

it has a built-in package "manager", but it sucks for anything practical. That's why people create those lazy solutions.

[@johnh1353]

Like a car with a manual transmission, its "THE" perfect interface to control a car .... vim motions is the perfect interface for navigating inside a document with your keyboard ... just like the manual transmission, once you have the feel for the interface it becomes a natural extension of intent

[@SelfCheckout]

As someone who uses VSCode, I've mainly used Vim for simple text editing if I'm in the terminal and want to make like a one line change and I don't have VSCode open already or if I'm on my company's remote box and I don't want to connect to it with VSCode to make that change. I would like to start using Vim more and phase out VSCode entirely, I just need to put the time in to it to work at the speed I do in VSCode.

[@ChrisCox-wv7oo]

One of the extensions in vscode uses a real neovim binary to perform operations. Grab that and go.

[@sdstorm]

Their reactions are pretty toxic here IMO. They personify the problems listed in the article.

[@GOTHICforLIFE1]

Now in defence for some of the people that struggle with the Nvim community. Because i do think that the culture is that of someone that is expected to know a certain amount, forgetting that a new person to Neovim in this day and age does not come from Vim. They come from an IDE where you do not have to deal with plugins, a configuration language (however easy it might be) and just how these things are connected. I felt like it was a heavy hurdle to get across to customize anything outside the complete standard of NvChad which is what i ended up with. If not for Vim motions (before realizing i could just set this up in Vscode) i'd prolly just bail that ship in the first place. It's not easy if you're not used to it.

[@marcs9451]

I honestly cannot fathom how neovim could be hard at such stage, maybe because I started programming outside of an IDE, I used notepad++ and opened windows terminal to compile my code with mingw. Neovim is 1000x simpler than Emacs, honestly if you just follow the ChrisAtMachine series you'll basically end up with a good setup

[@Burgo361]

I recently started I did find a lot of cases of assumed knowledge but there is so much documentation and so many guides that I just had to go read for a while and I was able to get everything working.

[@gjermundification]

0:22 The moment you realize that somebody only knows of insert mode of vim.

[@Drazil100]

15:53 I love how quickly he named them all.

[@ravenecho2410]

Brilliant video, I think... hmmm, it's also I think how neovim and a standard set of packages extend your mind and abilities. Vscode extends your mind by showing u which tabs you have open, provides you a terminL, provides you a tree, shows you your current like active path for thr language... as well as LSP and spelling All very useful. Personally for me, neovim extends my mind better in the ways I need/want it. Navigation is just insane with neovim, editing is insane. Auto collapse of functions and hiding of docstrings allows me to look at the code, but also write excessive documentation in functions which is encouraged... Go to definition in python just jumps to the top of thr file, I might try to sort it out. Also that edit list thing looked awesome, as well as pin. Will look into soon, in another month I will give my config a bit of a look 😊

[@autohmae]

I'm on nvi or vim-tiny, which is VIM but lots of stuff removed, so I'm on smaller than vanilla VIM.

[@ExpertOfNil]

I change my config when Prime shows something really helpful that I didn't know about. Other than that, it largely remains untouched.

[@nerothos]

I unironically do modify my own trousers so uh... neovim it is!

[@_bradleystrider]

I've never used any of these distros, just slowly built upon my config adding features as i felt i needed them, and i have to say i've never had the "i updated something and now everything is broken" meme happen, i usually just update all plugins at once without much thought and stuff keeps working as normal

[@iaskakho5646]

To run a chainsaw you need fuel - it costs money, the knife just needs occasional sharpening. And when the chain breaks forget about it😅

[@BeamMonsterZeus]

the cost of labor overtakes the cost of equipment and the fast results pays those bills - very little is free

[@trench6118]

LazyVim has been great so far for me as I got into neovim

[@sunnyheheheh9401]

Nowadays almost every language be it their linter formatter, etc has got a setup video on KZbin as well as a hell lot of articles saying line by line what to do as well as the source code. If you are trying to use NeoVim and want to make it an ide (which I don't understand why) you should be aware that you will need to understand lua and their manual and you have got the videos as well (you may say some videos are old but most probably they'll still work since a lot of people are using those 1 to 2 year old configurations and plugins' updates) but the control you will have is godly, default vim gives so much control only using the keyboard and the plugins on top is like 🤯👌

[@FalcoGer]

35:00 how do you do that thing where you pin the context to the top?

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

neovim-treesitter-context

[@zen-ventzi-marinov]

One of the things I've noticed change in my behavior when I gave neovim a try for nearly 7 months was that I was adapting my behavior and my interests around what I can do well in neovim while thinking that I'm adapting neovim to my interests. I spent so damn much time trying to even get comfortable with somewhat above basics and once I had to stop using it for a month, almost everything felt like out of touch with my "nervous system" if I can put it this way.

[@homelessrobot]

this is what addicts feel when they stop huffing their favorite brand of paint.

[@homelessrobot]

@@binladen-ci7jm he didn't say he was nervous. The word nervous did feature in the comment though.

[@homelessrobot]

@@binladen-ci7jm so you are saying that was a joke or something? Fair enough. Your joke is dumb.

[@mvargasmoran]

25:43 Best hot take, that is actually not hot, but cold calculated and smart.

[@meetarthur9427]

there is a alternative to both VS and Vim, this is indeed really cold calculated move to downgrade the whole topic to MS vs Bram Moolenaar

[@verb0ze]

The #1 grip I have with vs code: that thing is just bloat. From memory, to crazy cluttered UI, to clunky UX. Bom opens a file in under a second, and I'm out editing away, and I can easily focus on the code, not the thousands of panes with the millions of buttons surrounding the code. Everything, i mean literally everything is a keyboard shortcut away.

[@mvargasmoran]

I have a Macro on my keyboard, it does the same as Prime describes, plus some little stuff like push lines up and down.

[@caoutchouc-cc]

26:00 Thats why i switch from c# to rust and from Visual Studio to VS Coden and now getting into NeoVim

[@pif5023]

Must say, Helix is growing on me. I am going to give it a shot, in theory is solving all the major annoyances I am having with Nvim. It tampers a bit with the motions but it doesn’t seem too big of a change. Will I leave VSC for good? Final test will be using it on the monorepo Edit: forgot to say, Helix offers out of the bat what I like the most of both VSC and Nvim combined

[@KManAbout]

It's great. You should do it

[@bhallu9250]

For me, helix is missing three things. A file viewer to see files in the current project, an integrated terminal like vscode and a plugin system. Once these are added, I will switch to helix too.

[@KManAbout]

@@bhallu9250 it runs in the terminal you can execute any shell cmmands by pressing : and sh please try going through the tutor. A plugin system is coming but you can do most things via shell commands and pipes. you can see files but presing the space bar and f which also has fuzzy search.

[@bdkamil95]

If it has different movements that vim, what’s the point. You’ll invest time in learning it and that knowledge won’t be transferable anywhere. With vim movements it’s totally different story. There are vim plugins for everything including google docs. Not to mention every server comes with it.

[@KManAbout]

@@bdkamil95 The motions are not that different from vim. Most of the motions are transferable so this is incorrect. and anywhere it differs you can usually just change to be helix keymap. I did this with vimium.

[@amanofculture9440]

Maybe they’re saying they only use vim on ssh or smth although you could setup the vscode ssh server extension

[@illiasukonnik9966]

I love how people say they work on a server so they need to know vim. I remember time when my whole team used remote machines for python development, and Emacs Tramp was killer feature for me (edit remote files on local machine and sync it for you via protocol you like). Ping was not great so vim was luggy, decisions with rsync also was annoying.

[@Aoitori365]

RTFM is how Arch users say "KYS"

[@d_ogo]

I started coding recently, Seeing videos about neoVim was a hype, the inferface seems cool and the speed people program incited me to pursue how to install and use neoVim. My experiences with code are barely zero and my IDE was vsCode, trying to use neoVim was really exhaustive even tho I'm still trying. The hype was the principal factor and how light it is really inspires me to keep trying. But understanding basic linux and basic plugin-management seems nothing basic to someone as new to codingo as I am. I know it's different, but I'm one of those who struggled a lot with it. Happily I was able to quit it in the first try but I had to research. I intend to go try neoVim but right now my understanding is not compatible. I know coding is very hard, but even in the most advanced medicine you can find people who just settle for what they already know.

[@bibobo32]

4 months ago i was just the same, truggle with even install a plugin them followed Prime's and switch to Lazy by my own, right now i barely can config anything my own just but i can set up basic stuff and i have so much value time configuring neovim and linux, it helps me have more understand about how the machine works than just doing homework at my frontend bootcamp

[@1Caja]

I think when you start to code vscode/intellij(jetbrains) is totally fine. There you can install vim motion plugin if you are ready. After getting used to coding, vim motions and the linux terminal it's way easier to go full nvim. If you go nvim start with primegeans setup videos and build it from zero. Also, its easier to know what you NEED from nvim after experience with an IDE. One really nice thing about nvim is the ability to go minimal. The longer I do this job the less I need.

[@simonfarre4907]

I'm a developer for well over a decade. Trust me, using VsCode is perfectly fine. VsCode is really good for a lot, a LOT of development.

[@Amaraticando]

The time you invested could be used for something useful. However, learning Vim motions is useful, as a lot of programs support them and you eventually have to SSH into servers with no editor but Vim (not neovim).

[@simonfarre4907]

@@Amaraticando I'd argue that learning vim motions is about as useful as learning to play hacky sack. You're not going to be more productive nor are you going to be faster, therefore learning it becomes a recreational activity you do for fun.

[@MrSanemon]

I modify my car and my trousers, checkmate atheists.

[@insidetrip101]

"Go to definition" is included in default vim . . . you just need to make sure you've compiled a tags file for the project.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

Well sort of, just that tags don't know about scope, overloads/ad-hoc polymorphism, aliasing etc etc. Consequently tags work OK with pretty much exactly C and nothing else. If you want go to definition to actually work reliably in most programming lamguages you're not getting around actually parsing your code.

[@ulrich-tonmoy]

Theres VS Codium the VS Code without microsoft and theres lapce written in Rust i'm also writing one with tauri

[@laQwoter]

I have heard the same for Eclipse, Idea, NetBeans, VS Studio, WebStorm, RubyMine, PyCharm, Atom and even DreamViewer. Nowadays, I just use Sublime because it's fast and doesn't have any complex features w/o plugins. I don't want to learn any more shortcuts or plugins to current best IDE that would slip and fall down in 2-5 years.

[@baky5372]

*Dreamweaver

[@laQwoter]

@@baky5372 I guess my brain substituted original name for something less cringe before saving the memories

[@aritark]

could have just ended the title after 3 words because that's like a universal constant

[@adamschodron2264]

I wonder if either of these guys has looked at amp, the vim competitor written in rust

[@ZombieLincoln666]

Vim is great for simple text editing IMO, because it’s fast and runs from terminal or with a GUI

[@andremossi5957]

can you please increase your mic volume. Every time I check your stream I am in need of increasing my laptop volume and when I go to another video I need to go down

[@MrDaAsif]

Going to go against the grain; If you use the same tool for 10s of hours every week you absolutely should master the tool, really perfect it for your use The Pragmatic Programmer talks about mastering your tools and that helped inspire me to really get into the neovim rabbit hole and I'm glad I did

[@MithicSpirit]

35:00 wait what is he using for the context thing?

[@mikereynolds1368]

The big issue IMHO is most people seem to think you install neovim and you are suddenly on prime's level of ability when you start neovim up. Thats simply not the case. You can learn 80% of what you need to be productive in an afternoon of using neovim tutor. Then you use neovim until you find something that is a pita, annoying, or something that you seem to be manually repeating. 9 times out of 10 there will be something built in to neovim to turn a 10 minute repetitive chore into muscle memory that takes less than a second. If there isnt something built in or the built in solution isn't to your liking, there is a 99% chance there is an easy to install plugin that solves the issue or improves default behavior. Repeat the above until eventually you go from "OMG how do I quit vim" meme to nearing Primeagen level vim god. Neovim and vscode are like comparing apples to oranges. Both may be text editors (fruit) but 1 is packaged into neat self contained sections and the other you create the sections yourself based on your own preferences.

[@sergiuoanes4635]

Helix... just loving it

[@Diego-Garcia]

The name is Theshortcutmastergen

[@protosevn]

Personally whenever i program i boot up good ole Emacs start vterm and then enter nvim.

[@drekforder2952]

I do use nvim for simple editing just because my pc is refusing to run nvim properly but it's more convinient for simple edits because it doesn't load for 2000 years. ( I use vim emulator so vim motions isn't an issue for me )

[@leviathan7477]

I'm a proponent of the "distros". I've been using NvChad for a little while, but I want to try out LazyVim, because I haven't settled down yet. I like the richness, but I'm not a huge fan of over-customizing my own config. I hate choosing new keymaps. My muscle memory can learn pretty much anything, but inevitably I choose something that clashes with the default keymaps in something else I want to use and then I have to remap that and before I know it I have to remap everything in a huge chain. It's so much better to just get used to default keymaps and if everyone else does the same, usually they work together reasonably well 😅

[@coolaj86]

Have you tried webi vim-essentials? (for vim, not neovim) (it's my thing, and I'm a minimalist who wants maximum portability between computers, quickly)

[@AngelLoredo53]

I started with vim, arch Linux, suckles, the whole thing. Now I use windows and vscode, and I am more productive than ever.

[@emptybottle1200]

Same bro, when I'm in arch I'm always configuring my config files. Now im on windows with WSL, I just open the terminal then start coding.

[@testacals]

@@emptybottle1200 why were you always configuring your config files ?

[@Epistemologist0]

I wanted to learn to code, so i went to config my vim setup. Someday ill learn to code. For now, im still setting up vim config

[@dmkruglov]

😂

[@therealg9542]

Learn to code first instead of configuring your vim personal development environment (PDE). If you think that your vim configuration is not good enough, you will burn yourself out configuring your setup, rather than productively coding.

[@Epistemologist0]

@@therealg9542 thanks, it's only been 5 months though. I think another 5 months of config and I'll be ready to start coding

[@anj000]

I wonder how much time would people save if they were not discussing their text editors so much 🤔

[@terryriley6410]

This is a flawed take. People like doing this, why would they want to save time by not doing what they like. Are you obsessed with productivity?

[@anj000]

@@terryriley6410 I like laying in bed and playing video games. But there is a reason for not doing this things all the time, even if I like them. I get that people like to discuss editors or politics, but at certain point this discussion is becoming pointless and just waste of time. Especially if they pretend like this pedantic managing of their editors somehow saves them time.

[@terryriley6410]

@@anj000 The only reason is that you like other things as well or you have to stay productive otherwise you can't sustain playing videogames all day. It is highly probable that people discussing editors and configuration have similar conditions and behaviours. You are judging your imaginary vim users who waste away talking about vim and never doing anything else.

[@noherczeg]

"Just pull a plugin from 5 years ago", "I don't know anything about React", why are you giving advises then?

[@LuealEythernddare]

Not saying people need to use it, but there is an alternative to VS Code. Codium is just VS Code with all the Microsoft parts ripped out.

[@ThePrimeTimeagen]

no copilot though? or have i been massively misinformed ?

[@troopack420]

How's the modern vim drew neil?

[@jahba]

They can't handle the truth!

[@insidetrip101]

how any anyone say vim doesn't have good documentation. :help literally has everything about everything. Most of the time I don't even bother opening a web browser to find help about vim.

[@GiovanniCKC]

13:50 i really don't agree. referring back to another section of documentation is practically zero cost if you do know the feature, and it makes it **far** easier to read documentation and understand the context of something when all you have to do it `CTRL-]` a phrase and then `CTRL-^` back or whatever.

[@GiovanniCKC]

20:18 feels like the task is just being done backwards. like if i have a formatter `format-code`, it would be nice if i could just do `:%format-code -` and then a `:w` rather than trying the other way around i guess. i just feel like that could have gone *slightly* better lol.

[@philipcollier7805]

Reason 8192 for avoiding effen' Hacker News.

[@redhawk3385]

remember theres code oss and codium, they are literally the same as vscode without the spyware

[@chuckmuckamuck8001]

Every server has Docker / Podman installed, I have an image that I can move around that has my config baked in

[@snakemaster2]

I am so glad Helix exits, Its basically vim, but it takes no configuration, just install the required LSP on the system. My config is just about 40 lines for extra formatters, theme, special cursor for insert mode and some Shortcuts

[@testolog]

I have installed and configured by my self nvim, but i don't use. Use a jetbrains product because they have a better git client, and other stuff. I don't use nvim even is configured by me for me, i recognise nvim have same functionality what is common jetbrains product have. So why i should to move? i have install vim plugin remap some keybing for different mode and go ahed.

[@nightshade427]

lsp, treesitter, are built into helix out of the box, just saying 😜 (just install and start coding)

[@heroe1486]

So basically 0 to 50 in 5 seconds but then you're stuck and can't go near 100 since there are no plugins, it's sometimes useful to have libraries like that that get you started quickly but for your text editor ? I do't think so

[@nightshade427]

@@heroe1486 it's great if you want an editor that is fast, modal, and has a lot baked in. So far helix has done everything I need. If you want a fully customizable to make the editor your own neovim is better. I find I just want to learn a set of tools that does what I need and get to coding. Otherwise I tweak and tweak and tweak and don't get as much done. 80/20 rule basically. To get that last 20 percent requires a lot of work that I can be spending coding instead.

[@marcs9451]

Just have self discipline to not tweak endlessly, that's not an editor issue

[@nightshade427]

@@marcs9451 sorta, because with helix I just do 'pacman -S helix-editor' and code away since it has everything baked in. With neovim there is a lot more to do after I install to get it to a state that helix is by default (even if using a neovim distro). Depends what you want. Easy install and get running. Or do I want to fully make editor my own with tweaking. For me I just want to install and code, as long as editor does what I need (which helix does and neovim does not)

[@KManAbout]

Any if the extra stuff you need to do in helix can be achieved by using the command line.

[@lowbarbillcraig3689]

@32:00 "OH ... I didn't expect to see reverse polish notation here ..." LOL - NOBODY expects the spani^H^H^H^H reverse polish notation.

[@AllanSavolainen]

I'd prefer Borland Turbo Pascal IDE for Rust development. Most of my development is done with screen + joe, mostly due to Wordstar shortcuts. Local development is done with Visual Studio Code, though I don't like it that much, but it does the needful.

[@tensor5113]

Buzzword soup

[@AllanSavolainen]

@@tensor5113 could you identify some of the buzzwords? Cause I see none.

[@fallingintime]

What is WordStar?

[@fallingintime]

What is Joe?

[@tensor5113]

@AllanSavolainen Erm could you identify those buzzwords 🤓🤓

[@jackalope3557]

You have to love the irony of the guy who compared code editors to planes (and cars and trousers) critiquing someone else's analogy.

[@willemjannoort9628]

I'm exclusive neovim user and configured everything to my preference; I know there is a lot of documentation but I never really understand it so I just ask Chatgpt or Google instead... Skill issue

[@krkngd-wn6xj]

Vs Code is such a horrid "nothing" software. Features of a text editor with the startup time and RAM usage of a full blown IDE.

[@williansantos8397]

is using gedit a sin?

[@drrenard1277]

And I still just use pine composer.

[@piyushdivyankar7684]

I broke my arm. Good thing i know vim so i can work well even with just one hand.

[@LionKing-qp1lk]

Good news. Japanese scientists did experiments on humans. Even without a brain, people can use vim. It's all about muscle memory

[@asdqwe4427]

I use lazy vim, it’s a lot faster than lunar vim. I’m a newbie, less than a year and I love it!

[@thingsiplay]

1:50 OMG I remember that majkinetor guy from 15 years ago when I was using AutoHotkey on Windows! Dude, if you by random chance read my comment here, hello. Long time not seen.

[@hugoivankovichmartos1524]

Neovim is not for everyone nor is VSCode or any other editor/IDE.

[@frydac]

But my opinion is the one and only, and I don't want to put effort into trying to see something from someone else's perspective

[@Amaraticando]

If VSCode isn't for everyone, neovim is for pretty much no one. I mean, you know you're lying to yourself if you think customizing the hell out of your (pseudo-GUI) editor every week while you should be coding is not productive.

[@atetraxx]

I would say vs code is for everyone.

[@lucass8119]

@@Amaraticando Nobody edits configs every week, lol. You edit once how you like and you're good. And many people find keyboard-oriented editors more productive. It's simply faster to make short keybinds than to click around menus. It can most definitely be more productive. If you've seen a vim guru work they can chop up and rearrange files like you've never seen. That type of thing is simply not possible with VSCode, even with the vim plugin.

[@starlederer]

21:50 if you use ESLint as a formatter than Ideally you don't use Prettier or at least use the Prettier ESLint plugin and still disable Prettier in your ide because ESLint can autofix on save or be used as a formatter

[@MrSanemon]

Honestly I find nvim much easier to configure than VScode, including things like LSPs and such. One reason is that doing a .lua file and including it is the easiest shit in the universe. I'd much rather look at lua than Json for setting up my editor. Please I'd also argue that because there are so many dudes just making nvim plugins the setup documentation is often easier to follow and more clear. Nvim "If you want defaults do this, if you want x or y here's this, oh here's my config file and here are some other plugins to make this even better: You might need to install this, here's where you can get it" Vscode "Well make sure you have this installed (But I won't tell you where from) gonna need to edit this json file and point to this file here and here and then pray to god you didn't make vscode so dogslow that you can't use it anymore"

[@ZombieLincoln666]

Prime has said this too. vscode configuring has too much JSON

[@VudrokWolf]

Okay I will move to neovim I used vim for a few months in 2004 probably I already know a few here and there.

[@TheSkepticSkwerl]

I love neovim mostly. But it's a pain to get going. My complaint above all complaints is node.js is needed for the language server I saw. Which is NO THANKS.

[@bdkamil95]

Prime, how can you say you’re on team “don’t use microsoft “ and use copilot at the same time?

[@sumitmamoria]

The argument goes like this - "If there is something approximately equivalent to copilot, then he is willing to ditch the MS product"

[@bdkamil95]

@@sumitmamoria theres plenty of alternatives out there. What’s even funnier is that he said how unhelpful it is and yet keeps using that crap

[@sumitmamoria]

@@bdkamil95 What alternatives that are about as good as copilot? Genuine question.

[@bdkamil95]

@@sumitmamoria the pragmatic engineer did a whole blog post about it. Just search for it. There even are alternatives that were trained using more ethical way, not simply stealing licensed code like Microsoft did it.

[@BeamMonsterZeus]

My computer stopped crashing once I learned how the motherboards misreport/jank program voltages or just lack safe RAM settings or compatibility. If your memory is not tuned well, you will crash more often due to compounding image errors in the OS environment. Maintain a grasp of pc performance, ya boomer.

[@TheSkepticSkwerl]

I want a lsp written in rust. That works.

[@MartialBoniou]

I've been using Lazy (not LazyVim) for one month. It's amazing: no plugin loads when I open vim with no file. I really enjoy the loading on command or keys, the dependencies, the Lazy configuration tool... it's a keeper.

[@kc3vv]

I have to say when it comws to modal editing I prefer the way helix does but sadly it is not as mature yet. For people ubfamiliar with helix it kind of reverses the flow of things so instead of Delete - count - direction/unit you do Direction/unit - count - delete Basically it shows you the selection before applying the action (in this case for deletion).

[@duncanmurray6587]

My issue with helix is that it isn't that consistent. To end of line and start of line.