Hacking a PC Graphics Card into my G4 Cube!

Thanks PCBway.com! OK, I'm really excited about this mod. The G4 Cube is quite famously under-powered, originally coming with either a 400mhz or 500mhz G4 and a really lame Rage 128 Pro graphics card. Since we've already maxed ours out with a 1.2 GHz G4 and an SSD, really the only thing left is to put a killer graphics card in.
The only problem is, there aren't a lot of great options that fit in the Cube.
So today, we're going to be hacking a super-fast GeForce 6200 graphics card that only ever came out for PC, to try and get 256 megs of graphics goodness into our Cube.
H/T to Dana Does Stuff who inspired me to try this: / londoshair
Proudly sponsored by www.PCBWay.com - easy PCB prototyping with turnaround as fast as 24 hours.
Want to do this to your Cube? Over the years, resources online have slowly died off, leaving a mess of broken links and hard-to-find info. Here's a few good links to get you started:
💾 Modified ROM files for the XFX 6200 (under the "Modified NVIDIA PPC ROMs" heading): themacelite.wik...
🍎 Another nice guide on the process: www.atpm.com/13...
🍎 LEM has some helpful info: lowendmac.com/...
🍏 Check out the rest of the Cube shenanigans! • G4 Cube
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💾 For more vintage Apple stuff, please subscribe: www.youtube.co...
💾 Support these retro computing shenanigans on Patreon! / actionretro
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Check out my Amazon page with links to my tools, adapters, soldering equipment, camera gear and more: www.amazon.com...
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💬 Come talk about old computers on the BitBang Social Mastodon! bitbang.social
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#macintosh #g4 #cube

[@RhodderzX]

+1 for Druaga reference.

[@FireStriker_]

Hello smokers

[@CantankerousDave]

“We’re gonna have to Druaga the shit outta this.”

[@victorfigueroa9385]

hell yea

[@WantBadtime]

“Hey smokers, Druaga1 here, and today!...”

[@crackzonemobile2264]

The "+1" reminds me of Google+

[@markinius8866]

Nice druaga1 reference there, but still lacking some smoke

[@ВалерияРоманова-ю1м]

And SSD

[@ВалерияРоманова-ю1м]

@Bob Ross i am impressed by your visual skills, still wish it was a fattydove one! have a great day, bob ross, my hero!

[@m4ttii_]

hey bob ross i've seen you in a different video, i think a MattKC one?

[@abhay17381]

I've never owned a Mac and I probably never will but this channel somehow draws me into watching weird Mac related videos,that are somehow super interesting to me . It's like a weird Action Retro drug!

[@CotyRiddle]

mac's from the past were actually impressive little machines and you could* upgrade most of them unlike macs of modern day with soldered ram emmc and stupid shit like that.

[@FS--ew3se]

I've never owned a mac also but I want to hackintosh a trash picked pc just to see how well mac os is holding up

[@TuNnL]

I did own a MacBook Pro, but it died on me just before the pandemic, and I don't believe I'll have the money to replace it anytime soon. I am shocked at how cheap used Mac desktops can purchased online, which is why Sean's channel particularly interests me. The real debate for me is whether or not Mac OS Snow Leopard or Sorbet Leopard will run Final Cut Pro 7, Apple's flagship software product, and the reason I purchased a Mac in the first place. I have not found a channel that adequately answers that question yet. 💁🏻‍♂️

[@puwazatza]

that's the magic of his hand gestures

[@cossasomi]

On any AGP machine with chipset-integrated graphics, the integrated VGA is also wired through AGP. An external AGP card (even if flashed with non-PC VBIOS) _will_ disable the integrated card. Having integrated and dedicated graphics running at the same time is only possible if at least one of those is PCI. This limitation was gone with the arrival PCI-Express.

[@ActionRetro]

Thank you!

[@CotyRiddle]

yet some manafactures (acer for example) will still disable integrated graphics if a PCI Express gpu is used. (which is a bummer for me becasue intel quicksync is pretty nice and it would be nice to offload some things to a different processor other than the main gpu

[@cossasomi]

@@CotyRiddle Oh yes, I was talking about pure hardware limitations. OEMs doing nonsensical things it's another kettle of fish, especially Acer. I once had a motherboard of theirs based on a SiS630 chipset (socket 370 and onboard graphics with no AGP slot). While build quality was very nice, its stupid BIOS decided that if I install 256MB of RAM (or more), then 128MB of it MUST be set aside as shared video memory with no way of changing it. For a chip that was at best at Rage Pro levels of performance.

[@CotyRiddle]

@@cossasomi seen that plenty of times. the integrated shitt never had the power to utilize anything more than 32 mb at best.

[@RetroBerner]

You should get a busted cube and put modern SFF hardware in it

[@ActionRetro]

This is an awesome idea

[@MLGPRO-dx8fg]

Yeah, take the guts out of a Intel nuc or something and built it into this, maybe with extra hard drives or something since there will be extra storage

[@dregenius]

@@ActionRetro put an M1 mac mini inside! Sure, the mini's guts would be hilariously easy to "fit", but there's just something poetic about leaving the G4 cube a RISC machine... except now it'll be the same RISC machine that's putting Intel into chapter 11. 😉

[@XxmatixX6videosdiariosdenadav]

@@dregenius if you think that losing apple will make intel bankrupt then you have no idea what intel even does

[@Michael-Archonaeus]

@@dregenius The new Mac Studio would be even better!

[@MrVitalic85]

In my shenanigan of converting pc card to ppc, ati flash and nv flash gave me so much headache that I learned to unsolder the eeprom and reprogram it with a cheap programmer. Much more easy and you can correct mistake afterward. I made a couple cards that way.

[@ActionRetro]

That's amazing!

[@radcheckinski6300]

How did they give you trouble? I've been flashing cards since 2005... its literally bulletproof.

[@JessicaFEREM]

Alternative Title: Shoving a WANG into a G4 cube

[@mediocrefunkybeat]

That's going to be sore in the morning.

[@detenatron.3608]

The fans intensifies

[@braytonak]

While I miss seeing our fellow geek as presenting, I do approve of the hiring of Thing from Addams Family.

[@ActionRetro]

🤣🤣🤣

[@SalvoDan]

If you had a spare AGP riser, you could disable pins 3 and 11 on that, rather to on card.

[@summer_xo]

Glad I found this channel. Lots of Windows "hacking"/restoration content on YT, LGR etc, which I love (probably my fave channel), but im very glad theres some great Apple content as well. Grew up on a Mac so its great to see them preserved and given the spotlight.

[@ActionRetro]

Thanks man!

[@PicksterTG]

The Rage 128. Wow. That's a blast from the past. My parents got a Pentium 2 back in 97/98 which had a Rage Pro (4mb) and the Rage 128 can be traced back to that card. It's just a bit bumped up. A little late on I got a PC with an All in Wonder Rage 128m. So that has TV tuner, video in etc which would have been around 2000/2001. It's also funny to me that what was the bargain bin version of the 6000 series is a maxed out upgrade for the cube. I actually have the guts of an old PC I want to get up and running. I managed to pick up a motherboard that supports both AGP 1&2 and also AGP 4. Most later AGP slots don't support the older AGP standard, and older boards with the old standard wont support newer AGP 4 or AGP 8 cards... I'm sure that's super interesting to everyone reading... The long and short of that is I can use my old Voodoo 3 in that system but also swap it out for a X800XT should the game require more grunt. Great video. I hope you enjoy the new upgrade. Giving these old pieces of tech new life is a great past time.

[@theforerunnerreclaimer]

His channel inspired me to actually 3D print one and I got a raspberry Pi to boot straight into Mac OS X Tiger (I did what he did on the Mini G3 tower video) It's nice is pretty cheap to make, and doesn't have the drawbacks of old PCs. (it has 2 mini HDMI ports for up to dual 4k 60 monitors, USB 3.0 and 2.0, SD and can be attached to SATA, etc)

[@couldntmixapotnoodle]

The cube looks cooler without the case on. And that bracket for the back of the card you need can probably be found on ebay or among other mac enthusiasts.

[@CotyRiddle]

sheet metal :D

[@5thaltaccount547]

If you install ImpossibleCat (aka the beta snow leopard that people have been using on their PPC Macs), full hardware acceleration and quartz extreme/core image will be supported, since Apple continued supporting them for awhile. Someone with a G5 with I believe a GeForce 6200 was able to confirm working QE/CI.

[@MrVitalic85]

Do you know if a ati 9600 mac edition ( the one with ppc + pc bios) would work ? Its a passive card that dont generate a lot of heat. Anyway, thats a nice upgrade to your G4 cube.

[@ActionRetro]

I think technically it would work, but it doesn't fit - if I'm remembering what I read on forums.

[@thewallduck2022]

Use with a riser maybe? It would be janky and hang out of the cube but it should technically work

[@charlesjmouse]

2:22 Apple - "Screwing with established hardware standards since 1976". 11:40 Yep, NVFLASH is an absolute pain... especially if you're flashing 'blind'. 18:40 Very bad luck!

[@gira93]

I've done that ages ago to install MorphOS on a Powermac G4 quicksilver; it had a rage 128 (which was incompatible) and i've flashed and installed an Ati 9200 Pro, same steps as the video, including the tape! Strangely it worked on first try :)

[@notanimposter]

"almost typed ls" me every time I use a Windows machine

[@ActionRetro]

🤣

[@alexdhall]

Ditto....though if you use a powershell prompt, ls works I believe...,🤔

[@ThePsychoticWombat]

@@alexdhall it's a pre-configured alias in powers he'll, yes

[@ThePsychoticWombat]

Linux user here, I always type ls by mistake on windows machines

[@eDoc2020]

I have MinGW and MSYS installed so typing ls works for me on Windows. Somehow I don't seem to make that mistake, though.

[@GeFeldz]

The GeForce 6200 AGP, A.K.A. the "Hey, we've actually put an actual discrete graphics card into this crappy prebuilt pc, i'll have you actually know!" GPU of 2004 and 2005. Alternatively; The GeForce 6200 AGP, A.K.A. the "Hey, this motherboard and CPU combo doesn't have integrated video, so here's a card to make your monitor light up and do stuff!" GPU of 2005 and 2006.

[@Storm_.]

Trust me, you're gonna need a heatsink and fan. First thing you will notice is sparkles on game textures which progressively get worse. Then crashes.

[@ActionRetro]

I did put a fan in the bottom of the cube previously, which does blow across the card. I think I'm going to try and fit a more powerful one in there though

[@axi0matic]

@@ActionRetro The base fan blows up the centre of the Cube - 0% of the airflow goes over the graphics card. It’ll cool the CPU, which will reduce temps generally in the Cube, but that’s it. Get a Titan CUV3 for the GPU. Does your Cube wake from sleep with the 6200 fitted?

[@axi0matic]

@Robert F I ask because it didn't for me. The Cube would wake up (fan, HDD etc.) but the screen stayed black. The Cube was only a hobby machine, not a Mac I'd use for anything serious, but this left it feeling unrefined / unfinished. I wound up fitting the similar FX5200 256MB (flashed PC version), which worked fine and is slightly faster for games (128-bit vs 64-bit VRAM). Though eventually replaced it anyway with a Radeon 7500, which had a bunch of advantages for me.

[@resonancerim]

Isn't the card detected as 6200 (8:10) but the rom is for 6600 (10:29)?

[@sjanssen]

I was just thinking the same! Rom seems to differ (or he flashed a 6200 rom onto a 6800 card)

[@Dullahan_1]

flashing a 6200 bios into a 6800 maybe be the trick for keep the temps down , don't know how that would work since the 6200 and 6800 have different chips on them

[@jonathanschober1032]

Wow this is druga1 with a budget. $18 GPU and $20 computer. Calm down

[@rustyshakelford2]

Cool project! I'd be interested to see if the cube can still boot into OS9 with this card installed.

[@DavidStahlOLDHAPPyMACs]

Hi Sean I Have Also The Geforce 6200 256MB NVIDIA Card In My G4 Cube Graphics are fantastic . I Modded The The Original back plate from the 128 rage card with a drim tool looks great I'm using the VGA port for now

[@seanwieland9763]

Back in the day I had to use clear nail polish to do something similar - the PC version of a video card was half the cost of the Mac version to upgrade a G4 tower, as long as specific pins were disabled and the ROM flashed.

[@charlesdorval394]

For the bracket part, I'd say check if you could just cut up the bracket that came with the card and drill 2 mounting hole in the bracket so it fits the 2 original mounting holes in the cube

[@grantfaber]

At 17:55 and placing my bet: Based on your famous trial & error methodology, I eagerly expect that it won't fire up on the first try! No major damage; possibly the Scotch tape will need to be adjusted. Hope it works, but if it doesn't, I'll still be entertained. I enjoy watching you kludge your way to victory, since I usually find myself fumbling around in the same way.

[@kylejones8392]

For the bracket I would flatten out the long standard one, mark it where the case holes are, drill it, and then use some short bolts and nuts to hold it in place.

[@InMediasRes_vo]

bend, drill, and dremel the slot cover you pulled off that one PC. that's how a former co-worker did it when he upgraded his own cube.

[@radcheckinski6300]

I used to put electrical tape over pin 3 and 11 on the agp connector of the card. This way all my cards were fully revertible. Electrical tape works very well because its very sticky, so it stays on and doesn't slide off. Personally, that is the best method. I bought a MDD tower recently and a 7800gs. Going to tape mod it instead. Also, electrical tape isn't see-through, so you can easily cut two little rectangle strips, stick them on and done.

[@parintelebaiazid80]

23:36 Anybody else can hear the in-game music just by seeing the ID Software Logo?

[@MacintoshMen]

Wow that's an awsome upgrade you did. Might be the world's fastest G4 cube you got there. That upgraded VRM board really payed off for you

[@macnerd93]

really looking forward to installing a Radeon 7500 into mine. I had one laying around inside an old Quicksilver machine, just need to adapt the I/O Bracket and its a straight fit inside

[@willm5032]

Flashing GPUs is a lot easier when you have a spare windows machine. I had to flash an nVidea card for my mac pro and I ended up having to create a Linux USB then use the wifi network to do it remotely from my laptop and load NVFlash on THAT... was some matrix shit

[@michaeltaylor184]

We’re going to have to druaga1 this thing lol

[@xero110]

Just a tip for cutting the pins as you did. Nail polish works great and is easy to remove if you ever need to.

[@TheHouseOfMoth]

*pauses video* There is a 99% chance the card will work but in doing so will burn out every LED in there!! *resumes video* Damn the LED’s still work

[@ActionRetro]

🤣🤣🤣

[@littledudejoey]

loved the Druaga reference!

[@eg1885]

Great video. Try using backup.rom from the good card to reflash the bad card to possibly get it working.

[@mightydeku]

I remember flashing a voodoo 3 3000 PCI for my umax back when 3dfx released a Mac firmware for their cards.

[@marc6340]

I am really going to have to try this! My poor cubes have been just sitting on the shelf all this time!

[@ActionRetro]

Yes do it!

[@KiraSlith]

You can really easily 3D print one, you just have to keep the build plate temperature very consistent and pull the part as soon as the print finishes, since thin parts curl easily.

[@stevemorris3924]

Simple fix on the dell, it won't boot without a CPU fan that's all

[@ActionRetro]

Oh dang thanks!

[@squeeeb]

Nice upgrade!

[@plasmar1]

you can get away with using a sharpie:)... if you google dell perc 5i I think it was; a dell server sata/sas controller, they used one of the pins for some proprietary dell thing, so on a lot of non dell systems back in the day it was required to not use the one pin or the system wouldn't boot **source: tried it myself and random websites

[@raikiri23]

My friend, please, I am BEGGING you. Turn down the gain or move back from your mic. Your mouth sounds are very... moist

[@CoolDudeClem]

I still remember when 256 MB of graphics RAM was a big deal, now in my computer I've got a card with 6GB!

[@EvilTurkeySlices]

My main PC has 11GB.

[@luqasxXX]

The rom upload didn't work because the file name was too long. Dos can handle only 8 character file name set, and abbreviates everything with suffix ~1. That causes that the directory does handles ~1 file name lookups/requests. If you would shorten (rename) the file from cube_n~1.bin to just cube.bin the firmware upload would be successful. Hope I helped :)

[@AtomicGoober]

Hey, I reworked someone else's G4 Cube GPU bracket to hopefully work with your card configuration. I posted the design on Thingiverse /thing:4659096. The original design is by Dietervdf, at /thing:1665153. Also, if you don't have access to a 3D printer, or can't print locally. I can totally print the part out of high-temp resin and send it out to you at the cost of shipping.

[@ActionRetro]

Holy crap thank you! I'd be happy to pay for shipping! Could you email me? [e-mail]

[@AtomicGoober]

@@ActionRetro Email sent. 👍

[@xaer0knight]

if you need a frankenputer, you can't go wrong with a Druaga1 referance.

[@ryderrepairs]

You need to do a 10 k subscriber special

[@staso28]

Another great video. Love this PowerPC content ;) Thanks.

[@ActionRetro]

Thanks Ivan!

[@velocity211]

Awesome work getting the 6800 to work with the cube. I bought an old P4 pc to perform the flashing process, but once installed in the cube, bunch of artifacts showed up. Must have been a bad GPU.

[@philippbuschmann4125]

Very amazing ... keep going with more mods

[@WalnutSpice]

Why this Cube remind me of the old South Park episode with Cartman running around yelling "Beef Cake"? lmao

[@ActionRetro]

🤣🤣🤣

[@bryandrobny7690]

Arnold Schwarzencube going to Pump you up! Get to the Chopa!

[@stevef6392]

18:00: Yep, 100% it'll work first try. I performed a similar Power Mac video card upgrade a few years ago. In my case I stuffed a GeForce 7800GS AGP card in a G4 MDD, running an even older version of OS X: 10.4.11. It fired right up and even had a driver ready to go. I don't think any Mac ever shipped with an AGP 7800GS, so the fact that freakin' Tiger actually had a built in driver just amazed the hell out of me. Edit: And...I was wrong. But hey, not much you can do about a bad video card. Edit 2: Huzzah!!

[@goclunker]

It had a driver thanks to the g5s😉

[@piterb.5444]

Just cut off the L side of the original bracket and then make the new holes for the Cube screws.

[@JessicaFEREM]

5:09 tfw the whole pc costs as much as the GPU

[@PhilXavierSierraJones]

Wasn't the white slots on the Dell mobo for PCI cards, not AGP?

[@TheAtariSan]

I would had suggest woman clear nail polish without that blue powder inside (that they put in aquarium) for isolating the conductutivity of the pin.

[@NickBouwhuis]

Your "weird pc" at 18:43 is exactly the model (or at least case) of computers we had at elementary school. This is the first time I've seen them since then.

[@nena_nezali]

Hell of a cube mate. Hell of a cube

[@JessicaFEREM]

the only thing you need now for the true druaga pc build is a cardboard tray

[@SudosFTW]

8200 has a nonstandard pinout for the ATX connector. Used the same pinout as the early P4 Dells and the GX110. The 6200 should still get a heatsink with a fan, the 80mm slim fan won't be able to keep it cool for long. You should also consider doing a thermal compound job on the card, since it's going to be ancient at this point.

[@SteelSkin667]

That's weird, all of these ROMs seem to be expecting a GeForce 6660 card. Does that mean that someone somewhere managed to cram an underclocked 6600 in a cube? These were scorching fast compared to the 6200.

[@goclunker]

No. It was a hacked 5200fx rom

[@SuperNicktendo]

oh nice - I got a cube a while back and it would be really nice to crank this up to 11. Was debating on dual booting Amiga stuff as well.

[@ActionRetro]

Oh that would be awesome!

[@jonathan21022]

For future reference a lot of premade pc's have a none standard pinout for the power supply. So by plugging in a universal power supply you may have burnt out that board or just stopped it from booting.

[@EvilTurkeySlices]

Those old dells don’t, they use standard ATX. There’s really only a few where it’s not obvious that it’s non standard. Most prebuilts that use non standard hardware use custom connectors that are physically different from ATX. Dell did use a different pin out ATX connector, but much later.

[@bnard6299]

I might be able to throw you together a 3D printable design (or even print it for you) if you send some dimensions

[@radcheckinski6300]

I've been doing this since 2005 when running powermac g4s as fulltime drivers. You didn't ruin the card, it was probably bricked. Never had that happen. With a wrong rom it wouldn't boot, but it was always revertible.

[@williamrogers5367]

You do love that cube ❤️

[@lozahe]

I’ll have to look at mine to see what video card I used to upgrade my Cube. Had to use a Dremel to make the video card slot larger. 😬

[@supercrazymario404]

Could you put a 7800 GS in one of these? It’s the best AGP card that can be flashed for Macs and it’s pretty good

[@greebo7857]

Jeez, how about a trigger warning for DOS? I had a flashback like a bad acid trip....

[@MaliciousAlfa]

Love the Return To Castle Wolfenstein test One of my favorite retro games To get an FPS counter open up the console whilst in the main menu of the game and type "/cg_drawfps 1" You should now see an FPS counter in the top right of the screen when you are in a level To lock the FPS type "/seta com_maxfps XXX" (where XXX being the number you want) Hopefully this helps

[@chasewilliams3949]

What I would do for a bracket, is to take the original GPU backplate, and just snip off or bend back the part that would screw into the case, and maybe drill holes in it so that it can properly mount to the screw holes already in the cube.

[@masterofdisguise101]

Hi, Michael MJD @MichaelMJD has done a video on this

[@bramvandenbroeck5060]

You could actually take the bracked that came with the broken card, cut the lil lip on the bottom, and cut the L shaped lip from the top off, make it round shaped like the accomodation of the cube, and than with those standoffs you screw normally on either side of the connectors, you could use only 2. If you have the cube lying on its side like on 17:30 you screw the left one from the dvi in and the right one of the vga one, and you could than try to put some strong double tape on the left side of the vga and the right side of the dvi (or if you want it to be permanent, you could just superglue them to the bracket, make sure to sand down the inside of where the glue goes so it has something to grip on to), and it should be strong and sturdy, just don't jam a vga cable on there, but be nice and gentle when you plug it in and it should last for a very long time.

[@tobiwonkanogy2975]

could you unplug the vga cable temporarily from the graphics card put the connector on the outside and then plug the vga cable back in ? maybe even being able to screw it in from outside for support.

[@ryderrepairs]

I just bought that same dell moniter!, in fact i watched this video on it!

[@amdintelxsniperx]

update . there is a half hight 6600 floating around that will work in this . its just an unlocked 6200 but it also has 512mb ram

[@ThePsychoticWombat]

I would love to see some more gaming/performance tests. I had one of these and a similar upgrade path planned, but could finish due to not having the time or space for it

[@diegoknyte]

Idda cut the traces higher up on the card. I would’t want some scotch tape wedged in my AGP port. To each their own

[@hi-friaudioman]

The easier way to blank those pins is with nail polish. You're welcome. ;-)

[@bitelaserkhalif]

The box art looks like bowser lol

[@uptimefpv]

I would take the original bracket, flatten it, and drill holes in the top and bottom of the bracket so that it could screw into the G4 case.

[@tekvax01]

(14:31) Use Kapton tape... not scotch tape...

[@LaskyLabs]

I'm going to have fun tonight with the Wang card!

[@ActionRetro]

Awesome good luck!

[@BrianMartin2007]

But your rom said 6600, not 6200.....

[@frice2000]

Really could've made this video a little snapper by cutting out some of the problems with DOS and initial flashing ROM problems. Showing some of that is fine but you went a bit over the top.

[@aviumcaravan]

AGP cards on their way to fry themselves for no apparent reason

[@thelastNokiauser]

Hands hands hands hands hands hands 🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐🖐

[@hectororestes2752]

just shape the original bracket from the 6200 with a dremel to match the original GPU. That would secure it safely.

[@BBHexKey]

Doesn't that card have an 8 pin SPI chip? I'd recommend getting on eBay and buying yourself a ch341a chip programmer. Really handy tool for flashing bios chips outside of the computer, and it works on a raspberry pi (or other Linux distributions) with flashrom.

[@STAR-fn1pi]

that was extremely complicated, like trying to kill a dragon with a needle :/ i love it good job :p

[@EdgyShooter]

Liked simply for that expression 😅

[@FoxyAnimater]

I wonder how well a modern game, like Portal 2 will run on it... or maybe if you don't have faith in P2, maybe Legacy Portal?

[@Epicgamer_Mac]

I think it’s gon’ work. 90% chance 1st try, as is. EDIT: nope sorry dingus, ur wrong the card was broken 😢 😭 🙄 🤬 but fortunately Sean has another one 😃 👏 🤭 😂

[@MUPPETAU]

The adapter is the deal breaker.

[@gokhansarioz7150]

That AGP2x slot is really taking down the real power of G6200 but still big achieve this is, and sir your videos making me want a G4Cube please don't do more :)

[@takuminightcore1886]

I really do wish you would perform a beast Power Mac G5 with the quad with the best graphics card and everything