Hacking GNU utilities - m4

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[@ros1877]

The windows background caught me off-guard

[@cranil]

He did the same in the previous video 😑

[@Starlok007]

Windows jumpscare

[@udayakumar-iv7ng]

Same

[@monad_tcp]

autom4te is what scares me

[@TEHNOTRAHER]

the bg scared the shit out of me

[@davydorynbaev]

a'mister a'zozzing

[@corvoworldbuilding]

Runglish is very entertaining to hear.

[@WHYUNODYLAN]

There was a guy at my work who was a big fan of m4. He wrote a script generator in it and it took 3 hours to run. Another coworker ported it to Python and it went down to 17 seconds.

[@TsodingDaily]

Who said Python is slow hah!

[@thundertastic896]

rewrite it in c just so it runs in 17 nano seconds

[@rj7250a]

At least is has "implict :: none" to fix it, C++ has bad defaults and there is no language features to change it, need a linter.

[@jiulh]

> a peaceful stream recording > subtittles on 4:35

[@alishxn]

That's penger 😂

[@maman14141414]

Fun story the c preprocessor is actually a standalone executable that can be used by it self, and before the production js bundlers existed i used it us a js bundler

[@oserodal2702]

The functional like patterns of the language was creeping me out, and then as I watched through the video, I realized that M4 was, in fact, a stack based language.

[@TsodingDaily]

Ooooo! Now I get what obstack was!

[@theevilcottonball]

I am too young for this, but I always imagine that stack were the super hot new thing in the 70s.

[@bbq1423]

Yes, the time has come to use programming languages as build systems and build systems as programming languages.

[@multicoloredwiz]

That's what I love about mister zozen!

[@valley-artifact]

there's something so funny about using a macro language exclusively for side-effects and "troubleshooting" when it actually generates anything, one of your most unique stream ideas

[@azergante8268]

Coming soon "sand to Raylib in 2 hours" by Tsoding

[@wissotskeh]

Subtitles hijacked by penger ASCII art rendering in top of the video

[@samuelwaller4924]

I love this channel so much. I've wanted this for a long time

[@mxlje]

So far I have watched 4mins of this video and feel the urge to comment "You’re crazy". Can’t wait to watch the rest. Also say what you want about the default blank lines and dnl (of course that’s dumb) but there is just something cool about using a piece of software that is 50 years old that was written by K&R themselves. Edit: 23:30 lol

[@RussTeeTrombone]

Is another recreational programming session witha mista sausage 🎉

[@purpasmart_4831]

Man I wish I knew someone like you in irl. I just want someone to talk about C and stuff.

[@lightknight876]

Never ending awesomeness. Someone you can spontaneously build something with. Not about money, just passion. But ends up being a huge multi billion dollar company

[@alexstone691]

fr

[@iamzeus1250]

Russian? Let's talk!

[@purpasmart_4831]

@@iamzeus1250 Nah, I'm from the Northwest of USA.

[@Kknewkles]

Resources you might find interesting(or already know about): Handmade Network, Hidden(nowadays Digital) Grove. Also, JC Denton on the userpic - good taste :)

[@RukopisyNarnie]

About shitty defaults, there is fortran with implicit types based on first character on variable name...

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

Optimal

[@chri-k]

i mean, that had a purpose

[@RukopisyNarnie]

@@chri-k it has, but it still is shitty default

[@chri-k]

@@RukopisyNarnie the whole point is that you can't afford the space to change defaults. Modern fortran no longer does that (by default anyway)

[@bbq1423]

Waiting for the follow-up video with raylib from makefile

[@Mozartenhimer]

I love these backgrounds.

[@nanothrill7171]

"I think I might die in the process" -- me every time i have to touch autoconf for any reason

[@Googlplex-o7l]

I already miss the Penger folder.

[@vxcute0]

next time, we will gonna make our toaster call raylib.

[@Kknewkles]

I'm increasingly liking the idea of Sledgehammer Programming. I've been doing it here and there a little bit in my recent project, it's a pretty good way of making yourself do the thing you don't want to do, but have to.

[@rnts08]

Darkreader, my friend. It will automatically choose dark mode for you or use a custom style to remove flashbangs like you suffered around 11:00.

[@grumble2009]

The configure build system used to solve a problem - having a single build script for a wide variety of incompatible "unix" systems (HP/UX, AIX, DGUX, Ultrix, Irix, SunOS, Apollo Domain, etc.). It was fairly common to have to support all of those systems with one set of code, and configure made it less disgusting. But that was decades ago, and all the world is Linux :)

[@thepaulcraft957]

I shat myself because of your bloody wallpaper

[@gilligan87]

He's still in Russia? Someone gets this man a fucking visa

[@driden1987]

He already mentioned he wouldn't leave because he takes care of his parents.

[@gilligan87]

@@driden1987 fuck Legend If they draft him, idk what I'll do

[@ethanaa]

WHO DESIGNED THIS LANGUAGE!??? ... Oh. 😆

[@dtomvan]

Next stream: write m4 macro that directly contacts an LLM and shitout the result

[@random2huplayer274]

About the build systems, I started hating them as soon as I tried to use CMake on windows. I was writing Qt project and it used QMake because it was easy and readable, but I thought that switching to something more popular and supported might be better. Spoiler: It wasn't. I began actually learning CMake, experimenting with project layouts, but I just couldn't learn it. It was not comprehensive to the point of disgust. Then I switched to linux and finally got CMake working. I was so excited that I finally 'learned' it, I started using CMake everywhere, even to write single-file school homeworks. But then I learned Make... And now i think that this is a perfect build system. No bullshit. Gets the work done. May get complicated, but doesn't have to. A great balance between simplicity and extensibility. Love it. Not saying that using cc is bad. But I just love make.

[@hediinn125]

The "who do you think i am" was amazing

[@beardymonger]

"who f designed this language?" "oh, Dannis Richie and Brian Kernigham? oh, it's a f great language" LOL

[@kernelk1931]

i just followed the hawktui organization to just laugh at the meme

[@fu886]

1:15:34 autotools suite solve the issue to ensure you have sane and reproducible build environment across multiple unix implementations or arch which can be using different binary/library formats, nowadays we mostly just use linux and distro supported toolchain so most of the pain points are not as visible. most flat or complex build systems will end up recreating the same checks given enough times and marginalities appear in different setups if it was still a requirement . they also tend to hit the same issue that caused from general opensoruce packages

[@alessiodvt]

Why are you no longer using i3?

[@berndeckenfels]

1:16:00 Btw that’s not “corporate shit” that’s “Free Software portability shit” :) no managers ever saw Gnu projects

[@alexanderkovalev391]

warning! urmom's stack may be used

[@alexanderkovalev391]

and then this nice lady shits out sister

[@theevilcottonball]

Here is another dumb idea for using raylib with M4. use the macros to generate a hexdump or assembly code as a text file then use a reverse hexdumper or assembler to generate a binary object file that can be linked with raylib.

[@xazzzi]

What if you need a string with unbalanced quotes? Still have to escape somehow.

[@replikvltyoutube3727]

I guess that configure is checking environment and compiler more thoroughly. Single CC command could work but it wouldn't work on all the environments

[@Odod4000]

Raylib is crazy cool!!!

[@eliaperli2485]

I see you use a Behringer C-1U (i reckon)... have you had the low volume problem? If so, how did you fix it?

[@AnastasisGrammenos]

For gnu stuff, you can use emacs's info-mode instead of the html manual

[@ruslansmirnov9006]

m4 это то на чем вы последние 55 лет пишите свои bash-скрипты если что

[@beyondcatastrophe_]

1:50:00 You don't actually need to call it twice, according to the docs you can give a single trailing argument for the `else`, i.e. when it's not equal

[@Mozartenhimer]

This is such a cursed mission.

[@monad_tcp]

oh no, he's going to have headaches. and I'm an expert CMake developer, not even I would touch that thing

[@psycoder-x]

balsam onto my soul

[@hubstrangers3450]

Thank you.....

[@codewizard58]

In the 70s we had gpm and m4.

[@NemurakSteloj]

Man, that background screamer

[@demolazer]

Never seen someone learn a language by reading its source code

[@shrddr]

doesn't the need for a build system come from the need to target a dozen hardware architectures from routers to mainframes? of course you don't need it when targeting your own laptop

[@me_12-vw1vi]

dark mode makes you increase the brightness of your screen to be able to see which then damages your eye sight light mode on the other hand forces you to decrease the brightness and you can read off your screen for hours without hurting your eyes because dark font on white background can be seen easily unlike white font on dark screen which can only be seen when the brightness is increased

[@strawberry_blush81]

My whole world changed when I learned, that the screen should be only as bright as ambient room light. I do have to adjust it depending on the lighting, but it's not that bad. With light mode the eye can properly contract to see sharper image as opposed to blurrier white-on-black image. Having said that it's still a personal preference of people whether to go light or go dark :D

[@666222333111]

​@@strawberry_blush81use f.lux

[@fabianorezende7713]

M4 seems to have had some influence from prolog. Is there any history about this?

[@XboxTheBeatboxer]

no

[@monad_tcp]

I always ask why, why didn't they use Perl

[@capekraken2672]

is there any reason you switched from i3 rexim?

[@SterlingWatson-p4p]

Terry Mountains

[@__gadonk__]

since when is Zozi using Void

[@Mariuspersem]

Hell yeah raylib speedrun

[@codewizard58]

define('nice',69)nice not line orientated, it is character orientated.

[@valeriikuzivanov6832]

What about Koka Programming Language ?

[@mcol3]

We need a stream about Tcl

[@heh2393]

Hemlo Tszotszen

[@vimzim]

Could as well read the gnu manual in emacs with C-h R m4

[@patrykmyslewski]

@24:00 HAHAHA xD

[@nel_tu_]

brother laughed in every way he could

[@RiteshRanjan-x4k]

Program in DOSbox??

[@stavros222]

What is wrong with the subtitles

[@leonidas6682]

somehow he has rigged his subtitles to show his live chat.

[@veevee23]

WINDOW??????? ok its all good

[@xspager]

00:00:40 Me already: Can your Python do this?

[@notflawffles]

why are the dislikes more than the likes damn??

[@8followsonik]

легенда! 😎

[@stephenkamau1101]

1:18:30 hot take

[@rogo7330]

Todo: unban youtube in rusia

[@alexsmart2612]

Imagine not reading info pages in Emacs but in the browser. Yuck 🤮

[@Odod4000]

YAY STREAM! i love you videos! first btw

[@jiraibozo]

tsoding spend 5 minutes talking about how the different quotes should be in more languages just to instantly learn why they arent

[@TsodingDaily]

Learn want? That m4 error message are shit? Why should we not fix shitty error messages?

[@sukaisnaini1843]

who create this error message? oOo this is great error message hehehe

[@DobryWujaszekKun]

Use dark reader.

[@mewhenthemewhenstheme]

peng

[@samuelevilla03]

i want that bg

[@TsodingDaily]

penger.city/wallpapers/

[@asymptotic_sceptic]

Do austral

[@RichardLofty]

Daily reminder that emacs is trash.

[@ArtikLamartik]

the 3'rd comment

[@rogo7330]

Nested quotes aren't great when you realize that you don't need to escape '«', but you'll need to escape '»'. When you just escape EVERYTHING with '\', you just treat every byte after '\' literally, including line feed, maybe adding support for special cases like ' \t\v\f ', '\0', '\xFF'.

[@chevychavanne4433]

You only need to escape the ending quotes if you have a bad parsing algorithm. Tracking quote depth is pretty easy, xml and html do that and I'm sure many others. Json is probably the same but idk json lol

[@embodiment_of_autism]

Yeah but who would use the end quote without the start quote? If you’ve already seen a start quote you can simply treat the end quote as a normal character, and not the end of the string.

[@chri-k]

@@chevychavanne4433Consider this funny string: «»«» That's what he meant. You have to escape things anyway, but _only sometimes,_ which adds more complexity for no reason