Ham Radio: Easy Vertical Multi-Band Antenna 40-10 Metres

[@Dr88man]

Great video, Tim! Thanks to you, I’m a huge fan of the Rybakov! It works very well for me too. I added 4’ of aluminum tubing to convert a poorly performing 23’ Comet CHA-250B into a 27’ Rybakov. I also changed the Comet DMU with a 5kW 4:1 Unun. It’s stellar on 40-10m. It performs better than my horizontal 53’ EFLW. Running 100W, I have no problem on CQ contests. ~73.

[@timg5tm941]

Brilliant! I’m glad you enjoy yours!

[@IrishHamRadio]

Very interesting Tim… you really are an antenna mad scientist! 😊

[@timg5tm941]

I’m addicted Dave!!

[@che59v]

Tim, thnaks for one more great video, Great antenna for those who might be joining the hobby, cheap and easy to make while making waves around the DX world.

[@timg5tm941]

Thanks Joe!

[@MikeN2MAK]

Great video and explanations, Tim. I like to say the Rybakov antenna has been full of surprises for me.

[@timg5tm941]

Hey Mike, I know you enjoy yours. 73

[@brianfields4479]

Hi Tim, a well presented video, thanks. I think most vertical ants outshine many other ants, whether resonant or multiband, odd db here or there is nothing if band conditions are great, if conditions are poor all ants are much alike, but radials are the key for verticals. The time spent using radials are going to double your distance. Cheers Tim, always good to watch you mate, have a nice weekend.

[@timg5tm941]

You too mate! 73

[@stevekj5t]

I love thr LDG Ununs. I carry both the 4:1 and 9:1 with me for POTA/WWFF activations. I have played with various wire sizes and use radials when I can. It's a compromise compared to full size dipoles but a lot easier to get a vertical wire up with my TN07 mast than a dipole. 73 de KJ5T

[@timg5tm941]

It gets you on the air Steve and that's what counts. 90% of it all is about the propagation anyway 73

[@arnoldgrubbs2005]

A very interesting video! Thanks for posting it. Its got me thinking .. About 10 or 12 years ago I picked up a vertical that was put together by a small independent Radio Shack dealer in Kansas that also had some ham radio equipment and antennas for sale (above what RS sold). It was a 21 ft vertical with 4:1 UNUN and was made for very portable set up and take down. It was almost like the antenna you talk about in the video and required a wide range ATU. I mounted an LDG RT-100 at the base of it, and have experimented a bit from time to time with adding length to bring it from 21' up to 26'. I am planning on playing around with the vertical length again after adding a capacity hat consisting of 3 small diameter 72 inch aluminum rods folded back the clamping block. It will look something like a clover leaf with overlapping sections. I am interested to see how it will change the load presented to the Unun and tuner. Its all about having fun and experimenting right? 73

[@timg5tm941]

Sounds a great plan!

[@raycarpenter-2e0erl]

I been using 58ft wire up a tree and down the garden seems okay on most bands with the 4.1 transformer

[@timg5tm941]

Nice one Ray!

[@COASTALWAVESWIRES]

Awesome video Tim, I’ve been waiting for this one!

[@timg5tm941]

Ah ha! Nice one Walt!

[@richarde735]

I might give that a go! I have 120 radial that at 34’ long around a 40m vertical and I’m looking to make it a 40-6m multi band if possible.

[@timg5tm941]

Nice ground system .. go for it

[@n0vty873]

I have a 25ft aluminum flagpole I used for this type of set up with a (made by me) 9:1 unun and a fairly decent counterpoise and chokes on either end of the 50 ft of rg8x And it worked pretty well. But it did not outperform my EFHW.

[@tlebryk]

From what I have read, it does not have to be 25 feet. Could be any non- resonant length up to about 53 feet. So, 29, 36, 44, 51, 53 feet should also work.

[@timg5tm941]

Agree, in this case 25 feet provides better low angle DX performance than a 29ft version on 10m. 73

[@peterbriggs3408]

Dunno about the 4:1, but the LDG 9:1 I tried a while ago was rubbish at 40m. Couldn't even give a match to a pure resistive load in that band. Ok on 20m and shorter though.

[@DonzLockz]

I like it but some of the SWR readings seemed quite high. Is 2dB of extra noise typical for a vertical v's a horizontal antenna?

[@timg5tm941]

Losses on coax were minimal. As for noise, I find at my semi urban location that any vertical I use on 40 is 2-3 s points noisier than a centre fed inverted v

[@vincenzofidanza2539]

Hello Tim I see that everyone is using in this type of portable antenna application a 1:4 Or 1:49 or to 64 transformer , why not to experiment with a variable switchable transformer from 1:1 or so to 1:64 transformer to obtain a better SWR on some bands?

[@timg5tm941]

Nice idea

[@T.M.G2014]

how about the same length of wire fed as an off center dipole 4ft up to a 9;1 then the rest of wire up how would that work foe 40m?

[@timg5tm941]

Same length means same efficiency. Although it may or may not be easier to match.

[@T.M.G2014]

@@timg5tm941 if it's the same efficiency maybe it would be easier to use rather than take radials with you portable

[@DougNetherton]

Would it not be simpler to use a proper "Random wire" for the vertical, a 9:1 unun and just a couple of radials??? Doug

[@timg5tm941]

Not sure its simpler but its an alternative that works for many

[@Bilko-M1GSX]

Cheers Tim, nice vid .

[@timg5tm941]

Thank you sir!

[@kennethherring2918]

Tim, I'm in the process of getting the materials togther to build the Rybakov vertical, The question I have however is why not use a 9:1 Unun as opposed to the 4:1? Does the wire length have anything to do with its impedence?

[@timg5tm941]

Yes it does .. at this length the impedance on 40 is likely to be already quite low so a 9:1 might make tuning tougher. A 4:1 is more of a compromise across all bands used with this length of antenna

[@kennethherring2918]

Thanks, Tim I really enjoy the videos. Lots of great information.

[@nickkendall3764]

Hello Tim I wonder if you can input some of your wisdom with a 20 17 15 12 10 m antenna idea on a 4.9m pole the idea is kind of like what Walter came up with a bit like a virtical ocfd windom ish antenna so 1m from ground upto a 4 to 1 and the rest of the 3.9m up as the radiator iv used mmana gal and seen 8 or 9 to 1 at 10 and 20m and less about 5 or 6 to 1 on the in-between bands what I'm unsure of is the losses of the system with say a 5m run of rg58 as a quick portable low footprint relative low hight just all around stealthy antenna .I'd be willing to deal with some reduction in efficiency for a simple 5 band antenna for the g90 .do you think this is a usable antenna idea or not and I would be hugely grateful to see you brake down the system losses and efficiency in your way as you always make it easy to understand all the true system parameters as iv modeled it it seems fairly usable but I'm out of talent to understand the rest of the system loss as a whole

[@timg5tm941]

Definitely usable. Walt’s videos are great. I made a similar antenna using 450 ohm ladderline and some wire and it was ok. Losses with a 5m run of coax shouldn’t be too awful. Try one and see.

[@n8sdr473]

Have you tried it with elevated radials, the efficiency I would think improve.

[@timg5tm941]

They usually need to be tuned if elevated

[@n8sdr473]

Yes however many articles pointing towards 2 elevated radials outperforming 30-60 ground mounted radials. there was a nice article regarding this in either Cebik or ON4UN books. also the take off angle works out better if I recall as well.

[@timg5tm941]

@@n8sdr473 yes, but if those radials are detuned you’ll be beset with common mode and potentially skewed radiation patterns as the vast range of impedances will mean that the antenna becomes pretty difficult to tame

[@n8sdr473]

I'm talking tuned - if you use only 1 or 2 elevated tuned radials for bands you wish to operate it will outperform a series of ground radials which by nature of laying on the ground become detuned no matter what length you cut those for. One could also if space is a bit limited- perform the fan dipole method of elevated radials as well even if it is just 1per nband it will still perform better then say 20-30 ground mounted radials- one could use 40/30/20/17/10M bands and cut just one tuned radial for each those bands and even if you used a spacer to separate them like with fan dipole it would be better. Also slightly sloping them at a downward angle would help tune them, since your already by design having to use a tuner because of the vertical section and unun obtaining a good SWR should be fairly easy anyway.

[@yungsmile7546]

Are you okay Tim? Only reason I ask is you said that the VSWR isn't too bad. Looks like most are way bad. Am I missing something?

[@timg5tm941]

Look again at the loss figures on the coax I used. People get waaaayyyyy too hung up on swr. 73

[@sc20910]

@@timg5tm941but I thought most tuners don’t like swr above 3:1 ??

[@chipweather]

That is more internal tuners on radios like the ic7300(G90 is an exception) ​@@sc20910

[@mikesmith5139]

​​@@sc20910 The 'tuners' that are built into transceivers have a VERY limited matching range, typically up to 3:1 only, so are really only suitable for matching band edges on resonant antennas. For many aerials, a 'proper' external aerial matching unit is required. E.g. the classic manual MFJ 949E which will match very wide impedance / SWR ranges, or for an automatic antenna marching unit think; LDG Z11ProII or LDG AT-200. They should match up to 10:1SWR. 73 Mike M0MTJ

[@mikesmith5139]

​​​@sc20910 The 'tuners' that are built into transceivers have a VERY limited matching range, typically up to 3:1 only, so are really only suitable for matching band edges on resonant antennas. For many aerials, a 'proper' external aerial matching unit is required. E.g. the classic manual MFJ 949E which will match very wide impedance / SWR ranges, or for an automatic antenna marching unit think; LDG Z11ProII or LDG AT-200. They should match up to 10:1SWR. 73 Mike M0MTJ

[@tommiehinman1349]

Hmmm if the radiator is random why not use random for the radials? I'm wondering if a Tesla design would be great like this. 94' radiator with 17' radials. . The radiator could be folded back

[@timg5tm941]

Hmm maybe. The radials are typically random lengths

[@ChaplainDaveSparks]

What a _”Co-Inky_Dink”!_ Chameleon just introduced a 25 foot / 7.6 meter telescoping whip … Hmmm … *73 de AF6AS in **_“DM13”_** land*

[@M7BCN]

Thanks Tim.

[@timg5tm941]

Cheers Brian!

[@williamkizer3445]

I would try a 9/1 unun

[@Philip-KA4KOE]

I'd try the 1:9 anyway.

[@W5KJD]

I’m not criticizing just wondering, why do so many people make videos from inside their vehicles?

[@timg5tm941]

In my case… 50 hr working week. Busy family life. The iPhone in the car is the way I film in between work commitments and family stuff. Quick to set up.. and can edit using the phone itself. 73

[@W5KJD]

@@timg5tm941 See you have a good reason but I’m not sure most others do. Anyway thank you and 73’s 👍

[@dankennedy4763]

Great acousticly.

[@W5KJD]

@@dankennedy4763 Lol

[@banjax66]

You said Germany Five Tango Mike... Shouldnt that be Golf Five Tango Mike?

[@brian.7966]

stop it stop it.

[@dxscotland5901]

Nah it should be Guatemala five Trinidad Mexico 😂who bloody cares chill enjoy life

[@JxH]

"This is G5TM, that's Gnat Five Tsunami Mnemonic. QSL?" "N5SN?" "Negative, Gnat Five Tsunami Mnemonic. QSL?" "N5SN? Wait, what ?"

[@JxH]

Name is Tim, that's Trisha, Ingrid, Martha. Chaos will ensue... 🙂