HAND CLAPPING: CHURCH OF CHRIST SERMON

CHURCH OF CHRIST SERMON DEALING WITH 3 ASPECTS OF HAND CLAPPING. CLAPPING WITH SONG OF PRAISE, CLAPPING FOR A SERMON, CLAPPING FOR A BAPTISM. HAND CLAPPING MAY SEEM LIKE A MINOR ISSUE TO SOME, BUT WE NEED TO TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT THIS TOPIC AND WHERE IT CAN LEAD.
I WOULD ALSO SUGGEST YOU CHECK OUT MY TWO PART LESSON ON SINGING • Singing

[@LGministry]

Please note that if your comment contains foul language, I will delete it. I just deleted one man's comment, forget his name already. He was claiming to be a member of the church, yet had a cuss word in his post. Surely a member of the church can have a better vocabulary than that. I have no problem if you disagree with with my lesson, but if you cannot keep it clean, do not bother posting.

[@MangDuhlian89]

Cougan Collins if you ever make a sermon against saints only believe {helping only to the member of COC in time of need and natural calamities(benovelance to saints)}please send me any link of discussion or anything to it. also your video on clapping hand is so clearly explained, good video I love to hear about your opinion on saints only

[@cooltkll]

why do they need a pitch pipe ..when did they start using it & why???

[@coreymartin8397]

I. AGREE WITH AND I UNDERSTAND THAT ONLY VOCAL MUSIC IS THE ONLY TYPE OF MUSIC THAT IS AUTHRIZED BY GOD IN WORSHIP SERVICE. IF WE HAD FOLLOWED GOD"S AUTHRIZED METHOD FROM THE BEGINNING THEN A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN THE CHURCH WOULD NOT EXIST. SOME EXAMPLES WOULD BE: HOOPING,HOLLARRING, AND STOMPING OR THE SO CALLED GOSPEL RAP, GOSEL ROCK OR SHOUTING,OR A WHOLE HOST OF MAN MADE FOOLISHNESS SUCH AS MYMING WITH PAINTED FACES OR VULGAR JYRATING AND THEN CALLING IT THE "HOLY GHOST" WE REALLY NEED TO FOLLOW WHAT PLEASES GOD AND NOT OURSELVES.AMEN!

[@charlesfranklin2300]

How then do you select songs, and why do you have favourite songs, if it's not about you?

[@nelfamayawan]

Thanks brother for speaking the truth on this contentious topic. I do believe worship should be orderly and dignified because we're not offering praises to another human being but God who deserve our utmost reverence and devotion. I think most younger generations of Christians missed this part about worship. We ought to be pleasing God than ourselves. Excellent video

[@amyb5625]

Ok, whether you are a clapper or not, or whether you are accapella or not, it doesn't matter. Here is what matters, and what the outside world needs to see... (and I'm going to quote a favorite movie of mine)..."I don't want to hear you. I want to hear God THROUGH you." That doesn't just apply to songs. That applies to our lives and how we treat everyone...even those who disagree with you. Don't condemn anyone because of minor differences in how they worship and don't correct them unless you can absolutely show them concrete evidence that shows in black and white where it is wrong. That's not your place to judge their worship to God. Only God can judge their worship.

[@LGministry]

+Beloved The way that you can hear God through someone is by them upholding His Word. I cannot condemn anyone myself, but I can teach what God's Word says and tell people that if they continue doing those things God does not approve up that God will not be pleased with them. The concrete evidence is that we are commanded to sing, not play, clap, beatbox, etc. Give God what He commanded and you will know that you will be pleasing to Him.

[@amyb5625]

+Cougan Collins again, the early christians had bigger worries than keeping the beat. God was meaning for them to stay joyful in their troubles. He wasn't telling them not to do something.

[@amyb5625]

+Cougan Collins Then stick to what he says. If you see clapping to a beat, that's fine for you. You cannot make scripture say something that it doesn't say and there is nowhere that says people can't clap during worship. You cannot tell someone they are wrong when you cannot point it out in black and white. You can interpret scripture to mean what you think it means, but you cannot judge someone else's worship based on that. You don't even have the right to say "God won't be happy" with their worship. You do not know their heart. Only God knows and can judge their worship. We live in a world that wants to kill christians. Islam is on the rise, and many are getting murdered because they proclaim Jesus, and you want to tell christians that they can't clap during worship. Somehow I think proclaiming His name is more important than whether or not someone claps. I don't think He told those people in Oregon who said "yes, I'm a Christian" when faced with that question while staring at a gunman a couple of months ago that they would be punished for clapping in worship.

[@read1John]

Amen! Those who pass judgement on these kind of matters are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. Then they use their small number as some sort of evidence that they are the faithful. The book of 1st John says otherwise.

[@michaelharkey629]

how about a Quote from Amos 5:23 nkJv

[@TheRozberry]

Thank you Bro. Collins for addressing this issue. The congregation I attend do rhythmic clapping during congregational singing and the song leader has gone as far to announce that you are "stealing someone's joy" when members are asked not to do it. Also our minister informed me that "you cannot tell people how to worship" to which I told him "well you have a "Book" (The Bible) that tells you". We even had some visitors (who were friends of one of our new converts') who left right after our singing started because of all the clapping. Also our congregation thinks they need to give "applause" during and after the sermon, after someone is baptized, and when other members place membership when all that simply need to be done is to say "amen" as The Bible states. You also mentioned the "beat box" sound.....our song leader (and I have seen this at other congregations) finds it necessary to stand in the back with one mic and "provide the bass-line" for the songs which is totally unnecessary and that also goes for those so-called "praise teams" in worship....I don't need anybody to sing for me! But it's like my husband always says "when you let anything and everything come through the church doors, that's when The Church ceases to be The Church".

[@amyb5625]

"When you let anything and everything walk through the doors, that's when the church ceases to be the church"? Really? Who did Jesus turn away? nobody who truly loved him. Who are you to shut anyone out because they see things differently than you do? You sound bitter and judgemental. That goes against what Jesus teaches, yet is too prevelent in many congregations. That's why they aren't growing. They are hard hearted, judgemental, and hateful. My spouse says he wouldn't even go to a church of Christ if the one we go to was a "typical" traditional church of Christ.

[@TheRozberry]

I did not say "ANYBODY" I said "ANYTHING" which is completely different. I Cor. 14:40 let's us know that "THINGS" in the Lord's Church are to be done decently and in order. When we come together to worship it is not to be "entertained" because it is not about "us" it about "HIM" and how we can give GOD the glory to where it is pleasing and acceptable in HIS sight. I am not bitter because I love the Lord, HIS Word, HIS Church, and HIS people. Also I am not being judgmental because I have no heaven or hell to put anybody in, but I do know that GOD and HIS WORD does the judging and HIS WORD says "ye shall know them by their fruit". An apple tree does not bear oranges and vice versa....they are both congruent to their "sameness" which is what THE WORD OF GOD does.

[@amyb5625]

+Roz Britton sorry, but the Jesus I read about in the Bible is more concerned with people's hearts toward God and less concerned with what their hands are doing. As long as their hearts and hands are serving Him, that's the important thing. It's not anyone's place to tell them they are wrong for clapping ...and yes, that is judging them.

[@amyb5625]

+Roz Britton "things" don't walk through doors. People walk through doors.

[@TheRozberry]

+BelovedYou're right , people do walk through doors but they bring "things" with them that don't belong in worship, which deter them and others from worshipping in "spirit and in truth".

[@NashekaMedley]

If God didn't command it, I'm not clapping in worship service. Just like instrumental music in worship. If God commanded it, everyone in worship service should be playing an instrument. God's word commanded us all to sing in worship Ephesians 5:19

[@LGministry]

+Nasheka Harper Amen!

[@tinadouglas13]

ur doing what most church of Christ members do, taking the scriptures of out context and turning it into rules.

[@NashekaMedley]

Tina Douglas , What is taken out of context? The bible tells us what to do Tina. The problem with mankind is that we don't want to comply . If we don't want to comply with God's word, heaven will not be our home after this life is over .

[@tinadouglas13]

That's bull. That's what CHURCH'S tell members but that's NOT what god says. Where in the bible does it say "do not clap or use instruments or else u will not go to heaven (which means we would end up obviously in hell)?? The problem with churches is that you tell people all these things and twist up scriptures and then scare the person into thinking "if i dont do ALL these things I won't be accepted into heaven" like god is some sort of evil person in a VIP section that only let's certain perfect exclusives in. Stop telling people this crap its a form of control through fear and misuse of the bible scriptures. Then Christians wonder why people don't want to know god. Its because of the judgmental "Christians" telling lies, Making up their own rules into heaven. 

[@NashekaMedley]

Tina Douglas I'm not here to argue against God's word . I can give you scripture reference, Ephesians 5:19 ; Colossians 3:16 . Give me scripture that shows where Jesus commanded us to use instruments in worship service

[@whatuautado]

Until someone can give a verse that says not to play an instrument or clap my hands.. I'm gonna keep playing the piano and praising my Lord and Savior through the talents he gave me.

[@LGministry]

+Chas Gregg The verses are given in the lesson. God commands us to sing, therefore we sing and do not play. Had He wanted us to use a lifeless MI He would have commanded us to use them as He did in the O.T. 2 Chron. 29:25. God does not have to list all that we can't do, all He has to do is tells what He wants. Anything else is an addition on our our part, and if you read your Bible, you will see example after example of how God rejects those who offer Him what He does not ask for.

[@whatuautado]

But all scripture is given by inspiration of God.. We are told to in the Old Testament. If we were not to use instruments in the New Testament it would've clearly been written not too. There are musical instruments used in worship in heaven. It's in the book of Revelation. God does not reject instruments because He's blessed me too much and has used me. I give it all back to Him and give Him the glory for it.

[@LGministry]

+Chas Gregg Have you watched my other two sermons on singing and why we don't use MI? They will thoroughly answer the questions you just raised. You do know that we are under the New Testament and not the O.T.? If we were under the O.T. then I would agree that we should be using M.I. and stoning adulterers, homosexuals, and disobedient children, etc. We have to go by the N.T. IF you pull something you like from the old then you have to bring it all over. Every place in the Book of Revelation where it talks about MI being in heaven are found withing symbolic text. Even if there are MI in heaven, that has nothing to do with God had commanded us here on the earth. There is also no marriage in heaven, should we make that a law here on earth as well too? Give my other two sermons a listen and see what you think about them. kzbin.info/aero/PL-K92Gw79WnS46bHdIM-VzMW_V0SkBOfx

[@chatttingitupwithcj]

Amen brother to that

[@charlieabigail4360]

Chas Gregg my dear friend David who the man after God's heart he brought instrument into God's worship and God was pleases With him but he committed a great sin that God was angry with him so that was when God stop instrument in worship

[@ramonawhitaker4503]

"Bad things enter into the church in small ways" . YES. Thank you for this thoughtful and reasonable talk.

[@cathynuytten798]

Yes. A very insightful statement. I’m seeing this very thing in churches in my town.

[@leroijr407]

My reply to him in Jesus name by tge spirit You contradict scripture you present, while contradicting Gods word mister. You are making your own way more important as strict as the Pharisees have. Colossians says to teach one another with (psalms & hymns & spiritual songs). It says after that to sing with grace in your heart, which it showing you how to let it out. You CANT TEACH ONE ANOTHER silently!!! Lets see what the word (psalms) means to the jews in the language it was written. Strong's Number G5568 Original Word ψαλμός Transliterated Word psalmos Phonetic Spelling psal-mos' From G5567; a set piece of music that is a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice harp or other instrument; a "psalm"); collectively the book of the Psalms : - psalm. Compare G5603 . Thayer's Definition a striking, twanging of a striking the chords of a musical instrument of a pious song, a psalm You see? A psalm is music accompanied with an instrument. God does not change. He used a harp for Saul to show that the Holy Spirit world through the instrument. Let me repeat. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE! If Jesus corrected us and said not to use instruments than we would not. But Jesus never did. The book of Colossians 3:16 says to sing psalms & hymns and spiritual songs to TEACH ONE ANOTHER. Can you obey this and teach one another silently with a psalm? I understand some churches may introduce rituals not biblical for worship, but this is NOT ONE OF THEM. You take this and make it your own way, but you are NOT speaking for and of My God of Israel! James 5:13 asks if anyone is afflicted among you....to let them sing psalms. We already identified that in the Greek that the word PSALMS is identified with musical instruments. Now witness my words from God show you in Hebrew what the word PSALMS means. 1 Chronicles 16:7-9 KJVS Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the Lord into the hand of Asaph and his brethren. [8] Give thanks unto the Lord, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people. [9] Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works. Psalms definition in Hebrew is the same as in the Greek used in the new testament. It is used with instruments. Strong's Number H2167 Original Word זמר Transliterated Word zâmar Phonetic Spelling zaw-mar' Parts of Speech Verb Strong's Definition A primitive root (perhaps identical with H2168 through the idea of striking with the fingers); properly to touch the strings or parts of a musical {instrument} that {is} play upon it; to make {music} accompanied by the voice; hence to celebrate in song and music: - give {praise} sing forth {praises} psalms. Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition to sing, sing praise, make music (Piel) to make music, sing to play a musical instrument My people of Jesus Christ. Worship in spirit and in truth. If the Holy Spirit dwells in the temple of your body, than he will let you know when your out of spirit and truth. For he will let it be known in conviction! This man is twisting scripture with what MEN OF THE WORLD say. More quotes of MEN than explanation of Gods words itself. Understand Gods words first the way they were written. God does not change! This scripture in new testament explains it best. But WHY DID THIS MAN NOT SHOW IT? 🤔 I take you to the book of Romans.... Romans 6:13 KJVS Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS of righteousness unto God. YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS TO GOD?? WHAT DOES (MEMBER) MEAN IN THIS LANGUAGE? Its obvious its talking about your limbs like hands and feet. But I will entertain you.... Members Strong's Number G3196 Original Word μέλος Transliterated Word melos Phonetic Spelling mel'-os Parts of Speech Noun Neuter Strong's Definition Of uncertain affinity; a limb or part of the body: - member. Exactly. A part of the body. Hands....feet. Mouth..tounge. Anything of yourself. Now he says to use this as an instrument. Lets see what instrument meant back then when this was written. Instrument Strong's Number G3696 Original Word ὅπλον Transliterated Word hoplon Phonetic Spelling hop'-lon Parts of Speech Noun Neuter Strong's Definition Probably from the primary word ἕπω hepō(to be busy about); an implement or utensil or tool (literally or figuratively especially offensive for war): - armour instrument weapon. Thayer's Definition any tool or implement for preparing a thing arms used in warfare, weapons an instrument It means a tool used for warfare, and in context with the scripture in Romans is to use your body as an instrument for God righteousness. Singing psalms and hymns to each other to glorify God and also using instruments to drive out DEMONS!! MY GOD DOES NOT Change. YOU sir I rebuke those words of this teaching as biblical and twisting scripture in a way to not worship in spirit and truth. Worship him in spirit and TRUTH! AMEN.

[@ggentry2408]

Psalm 150 King James Version (KJV) 150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. 2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. 3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

[@cox8355]

How can anyone, who believes this 150th Psalm was inspired by God, ever entertain the notion that instrumental music in worship violates His will? The standard 'that was Old Testament' argument is only a smokescreen. There is no basis in scripture for a position against instruments in praise to God. This unbiblical view can only be seen with a very calculated human-guided leading. No natural reading, or reasonable handling of scripture would lead anyone there. My comments come as one who grew up with in the midst of this, but eventually saw it to be the sectarian dogma that it is. Make no mistake, many wonderful people are convinced that this belief is nothing more that respect for scripture. But it shows the power of a deep-seated, long-held belief, combined with a failure to see things afresh, and apart from our position of comfort and familiarity.

[@inthemix7640]

clapping your hands is excitement. there is nothing wrong with it, God is happy about us being with him. this "sermon" is so scared of thinking for itself it is just sad. God isn't boring. look at creation.

[@LGministry]

+in themix First, clapping one's hands rhythmically to a song is not excitement. Second, excitement will never ever justify disobeying God. One could easily claim that Uzzah was excited or we could say worried about the ark falling to the ground, but that did not stop God from killing Him. I certainly never said that God is boring, but apparently some think that He is, which is why they continue to add to what He asked for, which will not bode well for them. Let's stop doing what we want and adding what we think adds excitement for us and simply do what God has asked for. Would there be anything wrong with that? Absolutely not!

[@inthemix7640]

+Cougan Collins how silly can you be? there is absolutely nothing wrong with clapping your hands to show gratitude in church. you can speak where the Bible is silent. God loves our voices and our gratitude. there is nothing in the Bible about ties, computers or cars but clearly you are using all three, are you in sin? you are being absolutely ridiculous and stale in your worship. get our of the Old Testament, go out to the beach and have a long talk with God and you will find that your outdated, stale, legalistic, scared view of him is not the same one of someone who can fight battles for you, who creates stars and who can change lives. you are stale. look at creation, it is far from how you see God.

[@LGministry]

+in themix I am not being silly at all. Please tell me how one clapping their hands rhythmically with the song is an expression of gratitude? Ties, computers, and cars are not the same as adding something to our worship to God. Computers are aids and can help us study God's Word better. Ties are simply articles of clothing, which falls under dressing in godly manner, though a tie does not have to be worn, but there is nothing indecent about it. Cars help us go. We are certainly taught to go into all the world in the Bible, but the how is not specified so we can go by car, plane, foot, etc. You can call me all the names you want to and say that I am stale, but you are calling God's Word stale because I am simply teaching what it teaches. I am not stuck in the O.T. If I were, I would have no problem with using Musical Instruments. Why don't you go out a beach and open your Bible and read it and follow it instead of doing what you want.

[@inthemix7640]

+Cougan Collins you can read the Bible all day, but until you really know God, your legalism isn't going to do anything but send you in circles. the Bible says don't argue. I have a relationship with God. I don't suck down the Bible like helium. you clearly are not getting the difference. Jesus didn't die on the cross so that you could read, he wanted you to LIVE!!!!!! LIVE!!!!! LIVE!!!! not just read. read John again, then live.

[@LGministry]

+in themix How do you think you learn about God? It is from the Scriptures. Where does faith come from? 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom. 10:17 NKJ) What did Paul tell Timothy? 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3:16-4:1 NKJ) What did James say: 21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. (Jas. 1:21-25 NKJ) Jesus' death brought forth the new covenant that you and I are under. It contains the words that we will be judged by (Jn. 12:48). We are taught how to live, live, live, which is by being obedient to God's Word and this begins by reading, studying, praying and being a doer of God's Word. The N.T. is not some vague instruction manual, it is the words of life. If I am guilty of anything it is simply loving God enough to give Him what He has asked for, which is singing and playing MI or clapping my hands as MI. Look back at the restoration preachers from the past, just about everyone them including whatever denomination you are a part of understood that MI were not to be used in our worship to God. In other words, using MI as part of our worship to God is innovation of man that began in the 1800s. Let's get back to Bible and do things that we are commanded to do. 15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. (Jn. 14:15 NKJ)

[@crazymarko1278]

Everyone in the church of Christ, please, please, please listen. The church of Christ thinks this way because they are very confused about what worship is in the first place. Before even getting to the level where doctrine on one subject or another is considered, there are even more fundamental areas where we must begin, like how to approach the Bible and what worship even is. It is at this level where the COC gets off the rails by assuming that we are supposed to be looking in the Bible for examples of worship and doing things exactly like the early church. They assume that we need to have some type of formal ceremony worship. These are assumptions and are fallacies, and lead to man-made rules and regulations like in this video. To the Children of Israel and the Jews, worship meant ceremony, and it had to be done correctly. In fact, ceremonial worship was a part of the old law itself. Thankfully for them, how to worship was laid out in detail in the OT. Maybe this is why the COC thinks of worship as cermony? When the law passed away, it was not replaced with a new law, only a new covenant (a promise). Rules and regulations in worship were never a part of the new covenant. There are plenty of new concepts covered in the NT, and tons of descriptions of what we ought to be and correct attitudes, but rules for correct worship isn’t something that exists in our new covenant with God. The NT says that the law is written in our hearts. Worship should now only be described as celebrating or sharing Jesus, or simply serving out of love. Giving a poor person some cloths is just as much "worship" as what we do on Sunday morning. This being what worship is, is why there is not a list of what worship should physically look like in the NT. There isn't supposed to be a list, we are simply free to love Christ and spread that love in any way the Spirit guides us. That is what worship is, and you can feel the difference. Compare how witnessing to someone or going as a group to bless a poor family stirs the Spirit in you compared to sitting in a church “service”. It’s great to praise God and have sermons and Bible class, but there are no rules governing these things. Because the COC assumes worship is ceremony with rules, they have to make their own list of right and wrong by use of the unbiblical model of command, example, and necessary inferences. Combining examples from all over the NT and then arguing about them until they reach consensus of which examples are to be followed and which are not, then claiming they are the only true Church because of what they decided. As if that is what makes the true church. All the while, absurdly leaving out examples that are indeed in the NT like being in an upper room, having lamps lit, greeting each other with the holy kiss, drinking wine for your stomach’s sake, etc. And of course, also adding things there are no examples of in the Bible like having youth ministers and church buildings, etc, etc, etc. We are not supposed to be seeking authority for anything in how we worship; the Bible never tells us to. The COC tries really hard to restore the early Church, but we’re not supposed to be doing that either. Jesus said the gates of hell would never touch his Church, therefore it has remained unchanged since Acts. The church doesn’t need restoring. The COC thinks it does because they think Sunday ceremony is what church is, and view examples as commands. Concerning music in particular, add to all the above 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness), which is referring to the old testament, as well as some of the new testament. And as the guy in the video has nicely shown, music is listed and encouraged in the OT. Paul isn’t saying there are rules in the OT to follow, he’s telling Timothy that ALL scripture will assist him in being a righteous man. So, it would seem music can aid in our righteousness. -Straight out of the Bible. I appreciate the church of Christ because of their beautiful devotion and discipline to Christ, which is clear for all to see. But, like all of us, they are in need of growth. We’re not supposed to be going into the Bible to find the right or wrong way to worship. It’s in our hearts, and happens as naturally as fish taking to water.

[@mickeysanders1581]

Mark, this was beautiful. Thank you so very, very much for taking the time to type it, and to speak with obvious love. May I copy and share it?

[@LGministry]

Thank you for your comment. However, from a Biblical perspective, you are the one that seems to be confused. God has always taught how we are to worship Him. You want to make it out like we can just worship God how we want to. If that were true, then everything and anything could go. But what did Jesus say? John 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." Please note: Jesus said this, not me. What He said goes against what you just said. He said we MUST worship Him in SPIRIT (from the heart) and in TRUTH (The Word of God Jn 17:17). You said: When the law passed away, it was not replaced with a new law, only a new covenant (a promise). Rules and regulations in worship were never a part of the new covenant. There are plenty of new concepts covered in the NT, and tons of descriptions of what we ought to be and correct attitudes, but rules for correct worship isn’t something that exists in our new covenant with God. I say: Do you know what a covenant is? I am beginning to think you don’t. It is not a one-sided agreement from God as a promise. If that were the case, then there is no law under the new covenant and all are saved. That is logical end to your statement above. A covenant is between God and man. God will keep His side of the covenant, but we must keep our side as well, which means there are laws for us to follow. If there are no laws for us under the new covenant, then what are we going to be judged by? What about what Jesus says: Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. God has given us specific commands and generic commands to follow. For example, The Great Commission says go. So, we are to go, but how we go is us to us. God has given us a brain and we can see that are to assembly with the saints, but where, what time, how many songs we sing, etc, is left up to us. However, we can look at the examples given and learn that the Lord’s Supper and giving was done of the first day of the week. The bottom line is we are given specific things to do to worship God in spirit and in truth, but we are also given generic commands that allow us to choose how we do things within the limits of those commands. When commands us to sing, that is what we do. We don’t add dancing, MI. etc to what God has commanded. However, we can sing which spiritual songs we want as long as they teach and admonish and praise God. You also don’t seem to understand the restoration plea. It’s about getting back to the Bible. If we follow the will of God and do things He has said, can we go wrong? No, we can’t, but if we start adding things that we want that He didn’t ask for, will He be pleased? No, He will not. We must stop making everything about us, and make it about Him. He is the one we are to please, not ourselves. I am concerned for your soul Mark because if you follow and practice what you are advocating in your comment, you are making the New Covenant null and void and leading people astray. Let’s never forget that Jesus is the author of salvation to those who will OBEY (Heb. 5:8-9). Let’s never forget what Paul wrote in: Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. The Old Covenant brought to Christ, but thanks to Him we are under a new better covenant that is for everyone. I am so thankful that He nailed the old to the cross and brought forth the new. The New covenant is our law and authority. The sooner we accept that, the better off we will be. I am so thankful for the grace of God and the salvation He has made possible for us all. Mark, I hope you will study more because you seem to be a nice guy, and I would hate to see a precious soul like yours be lost for eternity.

[@lindahutchens8612]

Do you think youth ministers, women during worship praying and women as an office of a deacon are salvation issues?

[@omearak]

Excellent reply.

[@onebdcuda]

Brother Collins... We live in a world today that does not fear God. And it’s especially hard to talk to those that just don’t pick up the Bible and read it daily. I know satan has to work and works in very subtle ways…very keen! What better way and divide The Church by claiming “the Bible doesn’t say”. When you hand your prescription to your pharmacist he doesn’t read it and claim “well it doesn’t say NOT to give some of this or some of that, so I’m going to give you a little of everything”. We need to hold our Father in Heaven with GREAT honor and respect and follow His Word…not adding or taking away from. And by the way the Holy Spirit didn’t forget to add it in. Keep up the Great Work Brother!

[@melissabenitez9130]

The Biblical Church of Christ(NT)...Speak what the Bible speaks....be Silent where the Bible is Silent...

[@jlwerkheiser]

I rarely comment on things like this, since the comments section rarely yields much of value. But as a preacher in a Church of Christ, I would simply ask that this sermon be re-titled so that it does not claim to speak for all Churches of Christ. Perhaps "Hand Clapping: A Sermon by Cougan Collins of the Lone Grove Church of Christ"? That would surely be a more accurate title.

[@LGministry]

The title does not state that I am speaking for all those who claim to be part of the churches of Christ. The reason, I title my sermons the way I do is so that they are easier to find for those who are searching for sermons preached by ministers belonging the church. I certainly do not claim to be spokesman for all those who say they belong the churches of Christ. I simply preach what the Bible teaches to the best of my ability and most of preachers I know would preach the same thing I did in this lesson because they too believe that what I taught is agreement with God's Word.

[@markdunnministries2384]

I agree Jeff. If you haven't dug into the original language and searched the text used in and out; you should make it know that it is your thoughts. It is not only about the COC. If you claim to speak for God; you'd better study until your eyelids give way to sleep. Wake up and study more. Really think about it. If we want to know anything about public worship to God in the NT; we'll have to go to the book of Acts when they gathered. The letters mainly addressed mentality and conduct.

[@leader4029]

This sermon makes me so sad. It has no scriptural basis what so ever. This is so far fetched. Some of you preachers work overtime finding new rules to impose on your congregations. Clapping is a natural response to the JOY we find in Christ Jesus.

[@LGministry]

+Linda Eader Please give me Scripture from the New Testament that allows us to add MI to our worship to God and I will take my video down. Please tell me how clapping your hands with the beat of the music just an expression of joy? Can you say with certainty that no one claps their hands with the music other than a expression of joy? At what point would you draw the line of what one can do to express joy, and by what Scripture would use to draw that line?

[@dispatchsunshine]

Why are you worried about others’ motives? Do you not have enough to worry about with your own salvation? Work out your own salvation.

[@TheBluegoatman]

@@LGministry I'm still waiting on you to give me scriptures to use KZbin? What about microphones? Not one single verse points to the use of these yet you ask someone else for scriptures for musical instruments. Again, there are musical instruments in heaven in John's Revelation. That is in the new testament and even in Heaven around the throne. The fact is you ignore your own interpretation method to use whatever method you want to spread your message. Sadly so many others do as well. Another fact: in both Ephesians and Colossians the words literally mean the striking of chords on an instrument. Strongs Greek numbers 5567 and 5568. Another fact: you literally ignore the meaning of scripture to add to the gospel.

[@Min_1000]

@@LGministry Greeting in the name of our LORD and saviour Jesus Christ. I would like to ask this question. Who gave us instruments and the talents to play instruments? Isn't it glorifying God when we use our talents for him?

[@lannynewton9694]

I appreciate your thoughts and your sincerity in what you teach. I came from a very legalistic background in my faith and gloried in my rule keeping but missed the matter of the heart. In some cultures, their spontaneity would be offensive to us but encouraging to them. In actuality the New Testament says very little about "how to do church" which allows Christiantity to adapt to all nations and cultures. We must not load Christians down with more rule keeping but do all the glory of our God which in the way I see it, clapping does not interfere with my worship to God and to the praise of His glory but is a spontaeous excitement and response to who God is and what He is doing and has done in my life. We have many problems in our country and our world that need our attention and teaching rather than "straining at the gnat" and arguing and dividing over these areas of insignificance where there is no "thus saith the Lord!" But I applaude your sincerity and enthusiasm!

[@LGministry]

Thanks for your response. Not for sure what you mean by legalistic but if you mean one who carefully keeps the Word of God, then I would say keep on being legalistic otherwise it would mean that you do not carefully keep the Word of God, which would be a bad thing. We cannot and never must allow our hearts to be our guide, instead we need to allow God's Word to be our guide because it tells everything we need to know about being pleasing to God (2 Tim. 3:16-17). I disagree, the Bible does tells us what to do in the assembly, but we certainly do have somethings that are left up to us such as meeting under a tree or in building, etc. We are to honor customs only as long as they did not violate God's will, but we cannot allow culture to add or takes things away from God has authorized. Let me give an extreme example. In some tribal cultures, the women are not supposed to where a shirt, so their breast are fully exposed. If we bend the rules of God's Word for customs or culture, then we would have to say there is nothing wrong for these women to assemble with us being half naked. If not, why not? You also cannot say a thing is lawful just because it is done spontaneously. You need consider what that means because it would mean anything done spontaneously would have to be allowed no matter how absurd. I really wish people would consider what else can be made lawful with the arguments they make to justify certain practices. There were gnats harmed in the making of this video. Seriously, I believe hand clapping is a important matter because it is no different than beating on a drum. When we add things, especially worldly things, we are doing things the God has not commanded, which means it is vain worship. That alone should tell you that is not an insignificant matter. If you took the time to listen to my other videos, you would see that I preach on kinds of subjects from what might seem minor to some to things that others may call major things. If you preach all of God's Word, you are going to touch everything including hand clapping. Even Jesus told the Pharisees and Scribes that they needed to not only tithe, but they also needed to keep the weightier matters of the law as well (Mt. 23). In other words, Jesus wanted them to keep the entire law from the minor to the major. That is what I will continue to do to the best of my ability.

[@lannynewton9694]

Thank you Brother Collins for your response. I was pleasantly surprised and hope you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving! What I mean by "legalism" is rule keeping with a view toward salvation. When I grew up in the church, I was taught and believed that the Church of Christ was the only church hence the only ones going to heaven. Everything dealing with church and scripture meant we all must look the same, like cookie cutter Christians. I won debates but not the heart because my only love was for defending my "Pharisaical" attitude. (And yes, your example of tribal cultures was extreme!) Hand clapping, like many others things we've fought over is not worth splitting over, which in my understanding, division is a greater offense against the body of Christ. There should never be divsion in areas of opinion which I believe hand clapping falls under that area of opinion. My understanding of Romans is we have been released from the law, dead to sin, covered in grace and have a "mind set on the Spirit (which) is life and peace" which us love and honor each other in Christ. Keep preaching the word in love. I love your spirit and hope to hear more from you. Be blessed! Lanny Newton Amarillo, TX

[@LGministry]

Lanny Newton I am not completely sure what you mean by legalism regarding salvation. Do you not believe that we must obey God’s plan of salvation to be saved and that we must remain faithful to see heaven? Which of the following are not rules that we must keep: Must we believe? John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." Must we repent? Luke 13:3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Must we confess? Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Must we be baptized? Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Must we remain faithful? Revelation 2:10 Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. Must we be active? Revelation 3:16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Do you think there is more than one church? Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church (singular). Ephesians 4:4 There is one body (body/church/kingdom are synonymous) 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body If there is more than one church and denominations can be saved, then please explain the following verses: Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. (singular) 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe's household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? While ever church might have some difference such as where they worship, how long they meet for, what songs books they use, etc, when it comes to doctrine, we should be alike cookie cutter because we are teaching from the same source. The scriptures are numerous that teach this, such as what Paul said above. Jesus prayed to the Father in John 17 that we be one like He and the Father. Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. Philippians 1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, Philippians 3:16 let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind. The reason I think hand clapping is a big deal is because God did not ask for it or command it, just like with MI. Clapping your hands is no different than beating on a drum. If you can show that is different, then feel free to do so. Hand clapping is what man likes to do. While it might seem like a small matter to some, just look at the many examples found throughout the Bible where God punished those who did what we might consider as small things, such as offering a strange fire, touching the ark to steady it, striking the rock instead of using your voice, telling a little lie about how much you sold your property for, etc. While I agree we should live at peace with others if possible (Rom. 12:18), but we should never comprise God’s Word for the sake of peace. When you say we have been released from law are you saying all law because if that is the case then you cannot sin. If there is no law, no one can sin and everyone is saved? I can assure you that is not the case. The only law we have been freed from is the binding nature of the Law of Moses (Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:14), but we are under the law of Christ: 1 Corinthians 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law; Galatians 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. What do you think a covenant is? We are under a new covenant 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:13. I hope you will prayerfully consider what I have said. What I am about to say is my opinion. Just about everyone I have talked to who talks about coming out of the church of Christ and speaks about it being legalistic tends to make the NT out to be more of guide than things we are actually supposed to do. My thoughts are is that they felt it was too hard to be so focused on the rules of God’s Word especially if they were part of a church that was binding things that were never intended to be bound. So, when they see this new approach that seems to have so much freedom, they jump on it because they feel like they can breathe again. While, I wish people like this were not oppressed, this is no reason to abandon the fact that the NT is our law and that we are to keep it. Yes, it is full of patterns for us to follow and when we follow it, we should be on the same page doctrinally. When it comes to vague verses that can have more than one conclusion, we can certainly differ on such matters without dividing. While I do not claim to have all the answers, I can say that I am striving to teach and preach the truth on all matters. I am not trying to lay heavy burdens on people’s back that do not need to be there. I certainly live by what I preach unlike the Pharisees and scribes did. Thank you for your reply. I hope you will take the opportunity to watch some of my other videos because I teach on many things, and I think you would enjoy some of my other lessons even though you disagree with this one. I hope you had a great Thanksgiving as well.

[@lannynewton9694]

I'm about to go to bed because I get up very early on Sundays I teach class and tomorrow is one on those Sundays. I just wanted to make a couple of quick comments until later when I have more time. I know and understand all your points. I've used them myself. I have not left the church of Christ (or the Church of Christ). I grew up in it and I've been a member at the Central Church in Amarillo since 1983. A minor point on "legalism" (I'll share more on that later as I have the time), we are comfortable with "check lists" because we like to check things off and say I've done that which to me is no different than the Pharisees. We glory in our rule keeping. We, in the church of Christ, have been guilty of converting people to "the church" rather than to Jesus. But maybe that is not a problem where you live. And yes, there is only one body, one church but to say the "Church of Christ" is it is extreme arrogance on our part. And yes, I believe we have made the "Church of Christ" a denomination, maybe not intentionally but through our traditions. Anyway, I'm disagreeing with anything you wrote but I do feel you are making a "hand clapping" a salvation issue. I love you heart and your sharing! Keep preaching the Word brother! Good night!

[@amyb5625]

Cougan Collins hand clapping no more than beating a drum? Well I guess you better not slam your bible on the podium. That could be an instrument. You better get rid of your microphone too. That is an instrument too. Isn't it used to aid. Stop using your computer and internet. That could be considered an instrument too. We live in a world that needs Jesus, and not this dumb little arguement. Jesus wants a willing heart. Nothing in those scriptures condemns clapping hands. Jesus cares about your heart not whether or not we clapped in church. All this hatred toward christians seen all over the internet and you want to teach division. That's what they are hating us for...look all over the internet. People are starting to hate the church and christians because of things like this. They say we force our christianity on them and like to argue over petty stuff. If you really care about their hearts, don't put videos like this on the internet. If you want to preach it, fine, but save that for when they come to your own congregation. don't post it on the internet, you just feed their fire and make the church look stupid in their eyes.

[@Technologynew]

In the last days many will mock Gods word and they will not be able to endure sound teaching. Keep teaching the truth, good job. Thank you!

[@read1John]

Those of us who disagree with you are not mocking God's Word we are just not adding to it. Not to add to God's Word is a direct command unlike your preference that people not clap.

[@MElbertStafford]

I have been a faithful member and servant in the churches of christ all my life; over 40 years involved in worship leadership. All to simply say that I have clapped since I was a child, I do now clap my hands in praise and I with the Lord's grace and help will continue to do so... this makes me so very sad and disheartened. I pray that our candle has not been blown out. This is so disheartening. Stunning

[@LGministry]

I completely understand. It is easy to start a practice especially from a young age and continue to do it with giving no thought to it. This is why many in the denominations play MI as part of their worship and think nothing of it even though it didn't become popular until the 1800s. We all could learn from Paul who thought he was doing the right thing to opposed the church and he did it with a clear conscience, but once he learned he was fighting against God, he changed his ways. Clapping your hands rhythmically with a song, whether intended or not is no different than beating on a drum. I know it might sound like such a petty matter after all it your hands, but can you honestly say that is really any differences from pounding out the beat with you hands as opposed to pounding on a drum, which makes a similar noise? Like you I am thankful for God's mercy and grace, without we would all be lost, but when we see something we are doing that is not what God asked for, He is worth changing our ways even if we have been doing that thing for 60 years.

[@MElbertStafford]

Cougan Collins God didn't command that we give announcements, use bulletins, sit in pews, have air conditioning, lights or drinking fountains. I've yet to see Sunday school in scripture or the use of bathrooms... we probably should get back to using scrolls and not the Bible seeing as the first Christians didn't use an actual book of 66 smaller books. And I guess we better stop singing in English as well... I appreciate the desire to "rightly divide the word of truth" as it applies to worship practises but I'm troubled by the straining of logical reasoning here. There is nothing in scripture that suggests that someone will hear from the Lord, "depart from me, you who work iniquity... because you clapped your hands in worship." Lastly, clapping is a biblical worship form: "For the choir director: A psalm of the descendants of Korah. Come, everyone! Clap your hands! Shout to God with joyful praise!" Psalm 47:1 I appreciate you brotha. I do. I would that you teach on the ills of misogyny in the church, the sin of favoritism and bigotry, racism and injustice, what is the biblical standard for Christ formation and Ephesians 4:32... help us grow up in the Lord my showing compassion toward the least of these and Philippines 2:3... okay enough, sharing my thoughts. Shalom!

[@MElbertStafford]

I forgot to mention that I would argue that drums are not the precursor to hand clapping but rather the other way round. If one is mimicking the other, it's drums mimicking hands clapping. But regardless this is not an essential of Christian doctrine. No one goes to hell for clapping in worship.

[@LGministry]

There is a big difference between aids and additions. Where we meet, pews, AC, lighting, etc are all aids or a place of convenience and do not add to or take away from God commanded. However, when you play an instrument you are adding to the command to sing. Do you see the difference? Another example would be the trays we use to pass the bread and the wine around for the Lord's Supper, those trays are not adding to or taking away from the act of partaking of the LS. However, when you play and instrument or clap your hands like one, you are adding something to the command to sing. I will be the first to say that if we lived under the O.T. I would say we should use musical instruments because they were commanded 2 Chron. 29:25, but only a select group of Levites were to play. We are under the new covenant. Just as we don't do animal sacrifices, you cannot use the O.T. as justification for clapping or using MI today. I have taught lessons on the roles of men and women in the church, how we are equal and how there is only one race the human race. I also many lessons on how we are to help the poor. What I find interesting is that I have almost 500 lessons on my channel with only 1 lesson on hand clapping, yet many seem to think that is what I focus on.

[@LGministry]

Jesus is our judge. He told the Pharisees that worshipped in God in vain. When we add or take away things from how God says to worship Him, it too will be in vain.

[@mensajerodelapalabra2776]

It makes me sad to see how many people oppose to this. Perhaps, that is the reason why the church is in decay... It seems that everything becomes acceptable now, and the first thing we are called is narrow minded. The truth is that open mind means "lack of conviction". Many, coC people forget that we have converts from other denominations and when the truth is accepted they keep some of the ideas they had. If we do a deper study we could see that clapping comes from pentecostal movement. We have to be careful, God does care how we worship, perhaps Nadab and Abihu were open minded in worship, but we know how that ended Lev. 10. Thank you brother as we need more people to stand for the truth.

[@missbrooklynsantana]

I appreciate your comments brother! I understand more clearer why this should be of concern to me. Thank you for the biblical insight to not be timid in the face of opposition.

[@tinadouglas13]

the coc is all about rules and religion. not freedom through Christ. I know...I was a member for 7 yes.

[@thevirtuouswife]

+Tina Douglas I am very sorry that you feel that way really I am. The church of Christ is about what the Bible says because it is our standard for living. James 1:25 "But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.". We know that the church is the body of Christ and that we are the members of the body and that church will be presented to Christ. Ephesians 5:27 "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." The church must stay strict in its faith or we will fall subject to the world. Christ said "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matt. 7:13-14

[@thevirtuouswife]

+Tina Douglas This is where we get our freedom from. We are free from sin and the death that come from it but are now servants to Christ. Romans 6:18 "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness". The freedom we have is that from the sin to which we were servants to before we obeyed the gospel. However the freedom that most people choose is the freedom to do as one so pleases to do which is a false sense of freedom that will cost one his/her soul in the end. We must be careful when it comes to rejecting the truth in all matters concerning God 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

[@thevirtuouswife]

+Tina Douglas So yes the church of Christ is all about the commandments of Christ which we are to keep if we truly love Christ "If ye love me, keep my commandments" - John 14:15 and religion "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." - James 1:27 Just something to think on. I hope you find your way back to the Lords church. I mean that with love.

[@ParkerHarless]

As a former denominational Christian and former worship band instrumentalist, I've sometimes felt the urge to stomp on beats 1 & 3 and clap on beats 2 & 4 especially with hymns like "Get Right Church" and "Jesus Is Coming Soon." I'm really glad I hadn't acted out on that urge in church hahaha

[@LGministry]

Ha!

[@Honeybtru1]

Thanks Brother Collins for this video for all to see. More Churches of Christ need to recognize what is an acceptable worship according to the new testament.

[@DavidJohnson-of3vh]

I am a church member and a musician. Things to consider: Ante and post Nicene worship music was mostly a form of chant. Since clapping outlines the beat pulse and the pulse is not of particular emphasis in chant, singers would not have clapped anyway. The singing forces were mostly trained in that style and were acapella. The chant method is easily found on KZbin, etc. Types of music can exist w/o harmony, rhythm, even melody. I personally do not clap during the singing time and I often lead the singing. I can not agree that clapping is different than outlining the beat as I direct, one is a visual and one is an auditory indication of the music pulse. Clapping is indeed percussive, but so is smacking the pulpit to reinforce a point, and I've heard/seen speakers do that often. The concern of X leading to Y is valid, and can be overlooked by many, as it can also be pursued as a method pursued to reinforce the regulatory viewpoint of scripture. I am convinced neither side really knows as much as they think. A certainty is that sowing dissension is frowned upon the Almighty. Choose your side wisely, friends, There may not even be an actual side. but only an advocacy of a specific hermeneutic.

[@AGreen-pr8yn]

Because some (mainly the younger crowd) at our church of Christ clap, I decided to ask an experienced music teacher who has no connection to church what clapping was considered. Interestingly the word church never came up in our conversation. She told me that when clapping occurs the music ceases to be Acappella, but it becomes acoustic. She told me that once clapping or acoustic are involved the sound "comes back to you". However, she considers Acappella "that which goes out". We definitely need our voices to go out to God. Clapping seems to be preferred by certain religious folks who want their input to be recognized, but perhaps their contribution should be in an area other than interfering with worship. --Phoenix, AZ

[@thevirtuouswife]

Hi, I see you're in Phoenix, I am speaking with someone about the Lords church out there and want to send them to a bible based church of Christ. What congregation do you assemble with?

[@larrymcclain8874]

When a church goes in this direction it is usually the doorway for other unbiblical things to come. The New Testament assembly is not about a carnal experience (Acts 17:24-25; John 4:24), but a spiritual one. 1 Corinthians 14:16 explicitly explains how we are to respond affirmatively in the assembly, words that mean things, understanding, etc. 1 Cor. 14:13-15.

[@dumahsandy5986]

I agree with what was said. question if we are at a congregation that claps but u don't clap because it's wrong does that means that u agree with it. what should I do?

[@LGministry]

Dumah Sandy If you visit a church doing this, then you could either talk to the elders or the preacher about it so that you might plant a seed. Some that do it have never been taught that clapping is no different than beating on a drum, but once this is rought to their attention, I think it would be hard, but not impossible for them to deny the connection. If this is your local church that is doing this then I would still approach the elders or the preacher and tell them that you do not think this is right and tell them why. If they shut you down and say they will not change, then you should consider attending somewhere else. If that is not an option or you do not want to do that, then your only option is to continue to try to influence them to stop the clapping. Even if they have to consider you as the weaker brother, surely they will be willing to stop that which is causing you to stumble especially since hand clapping is not something that has to be done nor would it take away from one's worship to God.

[@JimiSurvivor]

I am not personally a "clapper" - for baptism, songs or sermons - but the OT, which Paul considered to be"profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness," allows for the practice not only of clapping but of: lifting hands, shouting, bowing, playing musical instruments and even dancing. These practices are presented as being both appropriate and edifying. No minister or Church organization has the authority to veto what God inspired men to write. It is a way of saying "that is just not the way we do things" or that "our traditions take precedence over the written word."

[@LGministry]

The Law of Moses is not authority, the New Testament is. There were many things that were written in the old law such as stoning adulterers, homosexuals, and disobedient children. Should we bring those practices over to the New Testament? I would guess you would say no. So, I am not vetoing anything. Any dancing, hand clapping, musical instruments that were done under O.T. authority will remain in the O.T. If you bring one thing over from the O.T., you will have to bring them all. So, let's do those things that God has instructed us in the N.T. under His Son.

[@JimiSurvivor]

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee WISE UNTO SALVATION through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV) When Paul says ALL “scriptures” were inspired (God-breathed) he was not referring to the NT, the earliest book of which (the Gospel of Mark) had been written only around eight years before. Does it not seem more plausible that the "SCRIPTURES" that Timothy's was familiar with since he was a child, which had been taught to him by his JEWISH mother was what we call the OT? When Paul said that these are “profitable for doctrine” what does he mean except that their TEACHINGS came FROM it? What does “instruction in righteousness” mean except that the OT taught them the correct way to behave and live? By contrast, you appear to believe that we cannot search the OT and find the truth. In fact, as you say, the Law of Moses is not authority and if we accept any part of it we (supposedly) have to live by all of it. By contrast, the Apostles knew how see the truths in the OT and yet not be bound again by the yoke of the Law. How did they do it - 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH..” (2 Timothy 2:15) Far from regarding the OT as “without authority” Jesus and all the Apostles cited it extensively using it as an authoritative reference point for their own teaching. If the OT was no longer a source of truth under the New Covenant they could have dispensed with this practice altogether. Part of "rightly dividing the Word" is dividing the what the Mosaic Covenant required from what we must do. In this work we are not left to wonder which parts of the OT have been fulfilled, abrogated or superseded for the NT tells us. For instance, the issue of CIRCUMCISION was settled in the Book of Acts and reinforced in Paul’s writings. This is also the case with the DIETARY law. The ceremonial law, which included requirements for priests, sacrifices to be offered in a temple, has been FULFILLED because Christ became both High Priest and sacrifice for us by entering the Heavenly Holy of holies with his blood. The example you brought up, the requirement that disobedient sons, sexually immoral people and idolaters should be executed was part of the Civil Law of the Theocratic state of Israel. When Jesus was on earth He never ordered that immoral people should be executed even when He could have done so, because in His First Advent He came not to rule as a political king but to save the lost. Dividing the word by what the word actually says is a more certain method of interpretation than relying on an invented “law of non-mention” in which the ABSENCE of a NT command to do something is treated as if it were an explicit command NOT to do it. You cannot establish doctrines on what the scriptures do NOT say. That is EISEGESIS and it is no better than writing your opinion in the margin of the Bible. In fact, your very thesis that “something has to be mentioned in the NT before we can practice it” is itself not in the NT. The moral aspect of the Law remains because they represent God’s will for human relationships. The NT writers derived their ideas of what was moral from their training OT. Indeed, one of God’s purposes in making the New Covenant was to “write His LAW on our hearts.” Jesus took this law to a much deeper level by announcing the Law of Love.

[@AlParr_CTC]

An excellent treatment of the subject (I Peter 4:11), right handling of scripture (II Tim. 2:15), and the godly spirit (Eph. 4:15). Thank you, brother Collins, for a much needed lesson well delivered.

[@Thangkuki01]

Hello..sir.. can u please talk about certian accassions like easter,goodfriday,christmas etc...what does the bible say about these celebrations ? Are they biblical and are they really important to prove ourself a true christians...?

[@mph12]

The piano is also a percussion instrument. So if clapping during singing is ok ... then so in drum, tamborine, xylophone .. and the piano. Even in small additions it is not that big a jump from the percussion of clapping to the percussion of the piano. Good lesson. I appreciate it.

[@michaelswanson8259]

So saddened that in this broken world, this non issue is still being talked about.

[@LGministry]

Michael Swanson Michael, I believe this is just one of many topics that needs to be discussed. Our goal should be doing what we can to be pleasing to God. If I made this topic into a hobby horse, then I would be in the wrong, but if you look at the vast amount of sermons I have recorded and posted in my channel, you will quickly see that I preach on everything. I am thankful that you took time out to write a comment.

[@justme-cn4ym]

Cougan Collins Is hand clapping what saves you or is it God's grace? I also am a member of the CoC. God cares more about a person's heart than whether or not they clap in worship. If He did, Heaven will be pretty empty. I personally can't contain my love and appreciation for what He's done for me. Where I attend, we pressure no one either way. Hand clapping is not what sends people to Hell and people should not be made to feel bad for doing it. CoC has lost more souls over this than anything. If our heart is right and we are trying our best to live for Him, we will be saved...clapping or not.

[@LGministry]

justme Without God’s grace, we would all be lost. It is only through the precious blood of Jesus that we can be saved. Grace is God’s part and having an obedient faith is our part. While we can never earn our salvation, obedience is absolutely necessary for our salvation. Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, While I would agree, that God does care about what is in a person’s heart, we must realize that what is in a person’s heart will manifest itself. We must never forget that we are to love God with all our heart, strength, mind, and soul. This means we are to give all of ourselves over to Him. Part of loving Him is keeping His commandments (Jn. 14:15). So, God does not just look at the heart of a person and not judge them regardless of their actions. No, He judges them based on their heart and their actions. Based on your reasoning above, I can do anything I want, play MI, dance, holler, etc as long as my heart is pure, but we know that is not the case. In fact, we will be judged by every idle word that we speak (Mt. 12:36), and we will be judged by the Word of God (Jn. 12:48). So, if we add something to our worship to God that is not authorized, it is an addition and it vain worship that God will not accept. If we continue to add on things that God does not approve, do you honestly think He will continue to ignore it? Based on the multitude of examples of how God dealt with those who added or took away from His Word, it should be clear that something like hand clapping should be taken seriously. I realize that some may have trouble seeing anything wrong with clapping your hands with praise music, but in my opinion, there is no way you claim that this is any different than beating on a drum or playing a musical instrument. If you can clap, then you should be able to play a drum or any musical instrument as well. However, even you would probably have a problem with someone changing the bread and wine of the Lord’s Supper with pop and pizza. Based on your argumentation you would have to simply tolerate and say, “well, God is more concerned about our hearts, not if the bread and wine are used for the Lord’s Supper.” I am assuming you would find this sinful and something we should not do. If that is the case, you have no problem seeing this is being wrong with the Lord’s Supper because that is big in your mind, but hand clapping seems small in your mind. When you get right down to it, adding or substituting God’s Word with other things whether we view them as big or small is wrong for us to do. We already know that only a few are going to make it to heaven because Jesus makes this clear in: Matthew 7:14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. You said: I personally can't contain my love and appreciation for what He's done for me. I say: I think it is great that you have such zeal for the Lord, but this statement you made could be used to do anything that you want. I could go around and start kissing everyone on the mouth, break out in dance, run all over the building, yell at the top of my lungs, etc. I could say, I am good with the Lord, but this is how I express my joy and appreciation for what He had done for me. We are to worship God in spirit (from the heart) and in truth (from God’s Word) (Jn. 4:24). We have to have a balance. It cannot just be based on how we feel, it must be regulated by the Word of God. Thankfully, we serve a merciful God, and Jesus will be our final judge, but He is a just God as well. Our actions will be judged (2 Cor. 5:10), and we should do our best to keep sin out of our lives and not add things that God has not asked for. So, hand clapping, adding MI, messing with the LS, teaching false doctrine are all things that can cause us to miss out on heaven because they are things that God has not commanded our authorized as part of our worship to Him. All, I can do is continue to proclaim how important it is that we test all things and do our best to follow the will of God (Mt. 7:21ff). You said: If our heart is right and we are trying our best to live for Him, we will be saved...clapping or not. I say, if your heart is right by being trained by the Word of God, then you will not be adding on hand clapping to begin with. I think of Saul, who thought his heart was right and thought he was living for God, but he found out that he was wrong, which led to him becoming a Christian. So, it is not absolutely true that if one thinks his heart is right and thinks he is trying his best to live for Him that he will be saved. For example, there are many in the religious world, who think they are saved and live the life of a Christian maybe better than you and I, but they were taught to ask Jesus into their hearts or to say the sinner’s prayer. Of course, neither of these things are taught in the Bible. These people think their sins are gone and that they are one with God, but they are not because their sins have never been washed away because that only happens when one believes in Jesus, repents, confess Jesus as Lord, and is baptized for the forgiveness of their sins. Baptism is the point our sins are washed away (Acts 2:38; 22:16). Baptism is when we are saved and added to the church/kingdom (Acts: 2:47; 1 Pet. 3:21; 1 Cor. 12:13; John 3:5). Those who thought they were saved before baptism and thought baptism was just something they do to show they are saved are lost because they are still in their sins, and they are not united with Christ nor are they in His kingdom (Rom. 6). So, churches that carefully uphold God’s truth and keep worldly practices out of it are doing exactly what they should be doing, which is keeping the church pure. If I were part of an eldership, the last thing I would want is to be part of allowing things like hand clapping to come into the church, which leads some to turn worship into entertainment and leads other to bringing in MI and anything else they want to bring in. Once God’s will is compromised in one area, it will not be long until other areas are compromised as well. Obviously, you can do whatever you want to. I am not going to stop you, but I will continue to warn you and plead with you to stay away from those things God did not ask for because I want you and everyone else to be pleasing to God, whether we are talking about hand clapping or adding on things to the LS. Whatever you do, don’t forget to look at the big picture, which is where will this practice I am adding lead to? Every perversion that has entered the church always started off with what seems to be something small. Let me give you just one example. A lady told me once that the her church did not use to use MI, but they had a basement with a piano in it and they used that piano to teach the children new songs. Then they begin to think about what they were doing. They concluded that if they could teach their children new songs with the piano, then there was no reason for them to not use the piano in their worship to God. So they moved that piano upstairs and started using it as part of their worship.

[@KadesVideoList]

justme Your question is based in not understanding what God's Grace actually is. It's BECAUSE God's Grace is what saves that this is an issue. Those seeking to clap are seeking to justify themselves outside of Grace, on their own merit, and therefore are lost. swordmasterpublications.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_Grace%3F Heaven is not a physical place and so concepts of "empty" and "full" have no meaning. If by "empty" you mean there aren't going to be many people there compared to how many will have lived on the Earth when time is ended, well, that's something that's explicitly taught in scripture: "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matt. 7:14) Your objection is therefore invalid. Clapping is the wide, broad, feel-good path of self-righteousness and it leads to Gehenna.

[@KadesVideoList]

justme You say God's Grace is God's gift because He loves us. What is that gift?

[@gerardoperez7612]

Can we drive a car then? Can we drink coffee? Can we play or watch sports? What about use a computer? The bible did not say anything about this? So do we only ride In a boat?(Paul was shipped wrecked) no planes, bycycles, motor cycles, skateboards or surfboards allowed? Think about what your saying. Obviously you use a computer, where does scriptures say that is ok?

[@vernonjudy3267]

Clapping after a baptism isn't acceptable, because it lacks Biblical authority??? As a result, we are reserved and somber and don't really celebrate baptisms so that most of them feel like a funeral rather than a celebration of the glory we just witnessed, God visiting his grace upon one who was lost but now is found. I'm saddened greatly by the legalism in the church. We say we speak where the Bible speaks and we're silent where the Bible is silent. Yet, we are constantly spending more time speaking on the silence of scripture than God obviously felt was worthy of his attention. We spend more time on the silence than what is actually spoken. No wonder our children are leaving Jesus, and the Lord's church is dying in North America. Who wants to be a part of any group that spends it's time warring over the most trivial matters to find fault with yet one more thing? How we don't see the leaven of the Pharisees in ourselves; I don't know. They were constantly binding where God didn't bind. They condemned Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. His disciples were condemned for not eating with clean hands. After all, where might it lead? I am tired of hearing members of the Lord's church say, "If we permit (x, y, or z)..." If you make that statement, you are putting yourself in the place of God. It is not up to man to "permit" and regulate; none of us are Lord over the other. Either God prohibits, or he doesn't. It's not for fellow servants to stand in the place of God and legislate behavior. Jesus did away with the priesthood, and we are, too often shamelessly, insulting that aspect of his death when we treat preachers like modern day priests who are entrusted to legislate our behavior and interpret God's word and bind it on the rest of us. We discuss authority (command), authority (apostolic example), authority (necessary inference), and yet we are hypocrites to say we don't have authority to clap at a baptism but have authority to own church property. If you want to be so narrow with authority, you best sell the church building immediately. But, you'll say, "it's an aid to meet a Biblical command". And, I will tell you that we have just as much by way of command concerning fellowship, maybe even more commands for fellowship than for worship, and you condemn the use of a fellowship hall. How is a building for worship an aid but a fellowship hall for fellowship is an addition? You'll say, but we have homes and restaurants for fellowship. And, I will remind you, that we can worship in homes or at the local rec center or a room at the local school. I am a member of the non-institutional church, because I know of no group that is closer to the 1st century church. Yet, that doesn't mean we are perfect. I would like to see us truly live by autonomy. If brother Collins' congregation decides it is convicted and doesn't want to clap at baptisms, that's their right. I just don't appreciate the constant narrowing definition of fellowship and unity being defined by the most legalistic hairsplitters among us. Please understand that I'm not saying Brother Collins has done this; I didn't hear him say such a thing in his sermon stating that clapping or not clapping is a tenant of our faith or impacts fellowship and unity. But, many are making clapping a condition of fellowship and unity. Consider Romans 14:4 "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." Even if we were get some of these minor judgments wrong; Jesus will make us stand. Don't constrain the power of the Master you serve.

[@LGministry]

+Vernon Judy I believe we should do our best to uphold God's truth and stay away from things that can turn into corruption. The main focus of my lesson was on clapping rhythmically with our singing, which I am guessing you would agree is something we should not do. The minor argument I made was about clapping at a baptism. While we should certainly rejoice, that is be glad at a baptism, we have no examples of anyone clapping. We certainly rejoice at baptism. Everyone has a big smile on their faces and some cry. Some may say amen and we sing a song until they come out (Jam. 5:13). Then one by one we go up to the new Christian and either hug them or say encouraging words to them. We will pray for them and thank God for the decision. While we do not clap, it does not look like or feel like a funeral. I do find it interesting that no one seems to clap at the Lord's Supper, which associated with His death, yet we want to clap at baptism, which also associated with His death. While the Lord's Supper is reminder of what Jesus had to go through for us, it also reminder of the great love He had for us and how made salvation possible for us and how He is coming again, which certainly worthy of rejoicing over. We should certainly be careful about binding things that are not bound in the Bible such as there not being fellowship hall or a church building. We are commanded to assembly and we see the examples in Scripture where the Christians ate together. So, to have a fellowship hall or church building is a expediency. I certainly don't claim to be perfect, but I do strive for perfection because our Father deserves our best. Sometimes people on the outside will misunderstand our commitment to do our best to follow what He says by direct command or implication, but that does not make us us Pharisees. I would rather worship with a group people who strive to do what is right and stays away from anything that has the appearance of evil than those who throw caution to the wind and just say, God is love. Jesus will be our judge, but we can certainly make righteous judgments while here on the earth and God gave us enough sense to determine if doing a certain practice is worth doing or not, whether it questionable or not. Paul said All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Depending on where you are or what the condition of the people are, it is sometimes necessary to refrain doing a practice that be perfectly fine to do somewhere else. We will have absolutely nothing to worry about if we do those things that they did in Scripture, which was singing, saying amen, praying, or having an emotional response, etc.

[@kywonder50]

This is so sad it makes me want to cry. Makes Pharisee of Jesus time seem . . . actually about the same.

[@LGministry]

kywonder50 I did not mean to make you cry, but the truth does that some times. While it is easy to call someone a Pharisee, it is another matter to prove that one is acting like one. What I find interesting is that the Pharisees were very self-centered and they keep adding things to God’s Word. They created all kinds of traditions they liked. To me, this is exactly what adding MI or hand clapping is all about. It is about pleasing man and what he likes to do because as I have pointing numerous times, God commanded us to sing, not play or clap. Adding MI is man’s tradition which did not catch on until the 1800s and every time the MI was introduced it cause division. Before you call me a Pharisee, you might want to do a little research on man was the one introduced the MI into the church.

[@osmarroblero4471]

+Cougan Collins corinthians 10:32 3 types of people what God see but in the all world .Jewish have the law and the church of God have a different commandments and the first church in Antioch didn't use to clap hands because Paul did not teach them and us to do it because he didn't receive from God 1corinthians 11:23 just want to know if the first church in Antioch use to clap their hands

[@lindahutchens8612]

kywinder50 I am sad also; can't Christians have any joy? I go to COC and I clap to show my joy in the Lord.

[@maninthewilderness5795]

IF the Church of Christ teaches that a Christian can loose their Salvation through their own lack of Human Works/Effort - then that is ADDING Human Effort/Works to Christ's finished work at Calvary and is Heresy. You cannot work or perform your way to Heaven. However that being said - I think it is unfair to say that EVERY Church of Christ member thinks that way.

[@LGministry]

You must be confused. I have never taught that a person can earn or merit their salvation. I could be the greatest servant in the world, yet I would never get to the point where God owed anything. However, if we can sin and fall from God's grace (Gal. 5:4). There is reason why N.T. is filled with Scriptures that teach us to endure, to press on, to run the race, and to be faithful until death. You seems to be saying that Christ did it for us all and there is nothing left for us to do, which would mean we are all saved with no effort on our part. I hope that is not what you are saying because if you are, you are wrong (Mt. 7:21). In fact, Jesus Himself said only a FEW will make it to heaven (Mt. 7:13-14).

[@maninthewilderness5795]

I am not confused. I know what you guys teach. I am not trying to be a jerk either. You see, I was in a Christian cult for 14 years that taught we can lose our Salvation by non-performance of Human Works/Deeds/Merits or as you put it "Fall From Grace". That type of Cultic mindset (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism,etc) constantly puts people in Fear of losing their Salvation. It makes for weak Christians. However, God never intended to live under the burden of Fear (2 Timothy 1:7.). Jesus Christ our High Priest is able to "save completely" those to go to God the Father through Him (Heb. 7:25). I trust in HIM and not my Human Works or effort to get into Heaven. I could throw in the story of the Prodigal Son here but I will not tax your patience. Again, I am not trying to provoke just for the sake of it. If we can lose our Salvation or "Fall from Grace" (as the Church of Christ puts it) by lack of our own Human effort, then Christ died in vain. The Bible I read says I am sealed by the Holy Spirit "until the Day of Redemption" (Ephesians 1:11-14). God promises me I am sealed until that day that I am Redeemed and Glorified by the Father. I trust in that and not in my own Human deeds. In short Jesus Christ's finished Work on Calvary paid for ALL of our sins - Past, Present, and Future. Anyone who preaches anything else is teaching "Another Gospel" (Gal. 1:8). I am sorry if you are offended but defending proper Soteriology is very important. Peace.

[@LGministry]

I am not offended at all. I agree that JW and Mormon is work based religion, but I don't preach that nor does anyone in the church of Christ that I know of. What you seem to have done is went the total opposite of where you were. Instead of having responsibility for your actions, you now want Jesus to take care of it all. I have seen this many times from those who have been under guilt and shame from oppressive groups like JW, they go from one extreme to the other. You say you know we teach, but I don't think that you do. I agree that the only way that any of us could ever be saved is by what Jesus did. However, we must accept God's saving grace and we must continue to be faithful til the day die (Rev. 2:10). The message you are teaching is that we just rest everything on Jesus and once we do that we will be saved no matter what. Once saved always saved is false doctrine. We could accept Jesus and then just do whatever want and still be saved according to your teaching. You need to pay close attention to what Jesus Himself said: 21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matt. 7:21 NKJ) We have to do the will of the Father or we will not make it to heaven. We can work all day long and be the best servant in the whole world but it still would not cause us to earn or merit salvation. We do things we do because we love God (Jn. 14:15). Jesus explains the life of a Christian best in this short story. 7 "And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field,`Come at once and sit down to eat '? 8 "But will he not rather say to him,`Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink '? 9 "Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 "So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say,`We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.'" (Lk. 17:7-10 NKJ) Now I can't speak for every preacher that belong the church of Christ, but I can tell you that the ones I know are in no way trying to keep people full of fear, but we certainly will preach about the importance of remain faithful just as the Bible teaches over and over again. Unlike the JW we also will teach that there is a hell and it will last forever. We also teach that if you live for God and do your best to follow His will then you can be confident in your salvation just like Paul. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Tim. 4:7-8 NKJ) If you don't think you cannot lose your salvation, then you have a lot verses to wrestle with. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Pet. 2:20-22 NKJ) 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (Heb. 6:4-6 NKJ) 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. (1 Cor. 10:12 NKJ) 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Gal. 5:4 NKJ) These are just a few that show with clarity that one can become lost once they are saved. Have you considered Simon. 18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20 But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 "You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 "Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 "For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity." 24 Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me." (Acts 8:18-24 NKJ) If once saved always saved was true then Simon was in no danger here and had no reason to repent if everything rest on Jesus with no responsibility on our part. I am sorry that you were subject to such a harsh religious group, but apparently the one you are in now is not the right one either if they are teaching what you are teaching. I just do my best to love God and be the best servant I can be. While I continue to tell people to obey God's commands and I know there is a hell, I also know there is a heaven and God who is full of mercy and grace. It's all about balance. Let's not forget that Jesus is the author of salvation to those who OBEY Him. (Heb. 5:8-9). I hope you will reconsider your thoughts on God's Word and realize that Jesus' death is not going to take care of everything on its own, you have a responsibility to accept God grace through an obedient faith.

[@muantangpua]

He is a simple logical argument to what you put forward based on logic, not on Biblical fact. "...For example, when we use different dishes to transport the Lord's supper, these dishes are aids and do not change the Lord's supper..." The same argument goes to music instruments if you can look at it the same way you look at the 'different dishes' you are talking about. Musics and hand clapping are aids to singing. If you consider them as 'additions', then you need to reconsider the way you look at the 'different dishes' as aids to the Lord's supper and not as 'additions'. Listen to yourself carefully and you will find yourself contradicting. If still think you are right, then it simply means your view point differs from object to objects.

[@LGministry]

This is not a logical argument because you don't understand the difference between an aid and an addition. No matter what kind of dish you use, it doesn't add anything in addition to partaking of the Lord's Supper. You are not eating the dishes, you are simply transporting the items for the LS. However, when it comes to clapping/MI you adding something in addition to singing. When you add musical instruments it is no longer just singing because now you are playing something. All you have to do to prove me wrong is just show one verse in the N.T. commanding us to use MI like we find in the O.T. 2 Chron. 29:25. Good luck with that because there is no command to play MI in the N.T.

[@richmondg3705]

Thanks bro Cougan.Thanks for contending for the faith once and for all offered to the saints.We face the problem of adding our thoughts and feelings to the word of God instead of taking God's word as it is. Preaching in season and out of season,keep on the good work We seek never to please men but God,may the grace of God always strengthen you to continue in the work of the kingdom.

[@cjm1314]

richy....don't worry so much about trying to be 'right'....go feed the poor

[@brianhuffman3202]

@@cjm1314 read Luke 6:46. "why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say" Being right with the LORD is the ONLY thing that matters.

[@veldaroo]

This is an issue that I had not heard of, but I am aware that innovations are being introduced into the church and is greatly upsetting. Thank you for this informative talk

[@InfoNathan]

Sorry, brother Collins but I think this is a poor use of preaching time. How does this message attract the lost to the Lord? I have been a member of the CoC for 43 years. It is the waste of time and energy focused on petty things like this that is making some CoC's less relevant to the world and could be why we've seen a decline in membership over the past several years. We do not worship with MI where I worship, and I have never been a member of an MI congregation. That said, this is our tradition in the CoC and we need to own up to the fact that it is simply a tradition and not a command. I have a hard time believing that somewhere between the OT and NT that God decided that He did not like MI. It was perfectly acceptable and in fact commanded in the OT. You are correct in that we should sing and worship with our hearts but it is fallacious reasoning to say that those two things are mutually exclusive-- worshipping with our hearts and worshipping with MI . And small side note....nobody uses Wikipedia as a legitimate reference.

[@LGministry]

Nathan Snell No need to apologize for your opinion, Nathan. You can think this lesson is a poor use of time all you want to, but I do not because I am teaching what the Bible says about this matter. Since when did preaching from the Bible become a waste of time anyways? This message was not designed to teach someone about the basic principles of Bible. It was designed to show why clapping should not be done because in no different than beating on a drum. It is about being pleasing to God instead of pleasing to ourselves. However, a lesson like this can still attract the lost because it may challenge some to dig deeper into God’s Word, which in turn can open their eyes to the truth. People have been led to Christ in many ways besides hearing lesson specifically about salvation. Since you have been a member of the church for 43 years does that mean that you now have the authority to decide what is a waste of time and what is petty? So, our standard of preaching should be based on what the world considers relevant? Interesting. There are a lot of things that have contributed to fewer people becoming Christians or remaining one, but I personally believe the number 1 reason for the decline is because God’s Word is not been preached or taught in the homes. Instead, cute stories are being told and many churches are simply trying to entertain folks instead of trying get them grow spiritually. I have got news for you, the church cannot compete with the world when it comes to entertaining. We have several generations that are in place now that have no fear of God and no respect for His Word. We have too many people like yourself how think we should not back off on doctrinal issues and just preach love and happiness. Based on your post, I completely understand why you have no problem with clapping because you have admitted that you see no problem with using MI. However, MI are not the tradition of man. Singing is commanded in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16. Do really think that just because you have a hard time seeing God not liking MI between the OT and NT that this means that it perfectly fine for us to use them? I nor anyone else has every made the argument that God got tired of MI so that is why we do not use them. If base things on your argument, we could say that stoning homosexuals, adulterers, and disobedient children should be done today because this was done in the OT and surely God did not change His thoughts on the form punishment for such offenders. I do not have to know the specifics of why God did not command us to use MI under the N.T. anymore than I have to know why God did not command many of the things that were in the O.T. All I need to know is that we are under a new covenant with new laws and I trust in those laws and obey them because I want to be pleasing to God (Jn. 14:15, 1 Jn. 5:3). Perhaps you should watch my other two sermons that I preach on why we sing, how sing, and why we do not use MI in our worship to God. While Wikipedia is the not the most reliable source, it does contain a lot of factual information, which is backed up by sources. To me, it seems that you are just desperately trying to have something you can write to discredit my lesson, but what you did not do is mention how used Wikipedia. Here is exactly what I said in the video: One thing I want to point out right away is that even Wikipedia records that applause during a church service is taboo. This is what it says: Applause during church services is traditionally regarded as taboo, in light of the sanctity of the proceedings; stress is on the aspect of worship rather than the personality of the individual preaching or singing during the service. Notice how point out the “even” Wikipedia records… Now, had something like, “I know this absolutely true and it cannot be refuted because Wikipedia says so,” then you might have a point to make, but I did not do this. Also, in case you did not notice, this is just 1 sermon out over 200 I have on my KZbin channel. I preach on everything. So, if you do not want to hear a lesson on clapping, then don’t watch it. If want to hear a sermon on first principles or Christian living, I have many of those to choose from.

[@InfoNathan]

Cougan Collins - Thanks for your thoughtful response. I hope I didn't come across as harsh or disrespectful, but I do think that we (CoC) have spent way to much time on trying to make sure we're doing everything just right and not enough time focused on the needs of the world and drawing people to Christ. The message of the cross will draw people to Jesus. Being legalistic about our traditions, as the religious leaders of Jesus' day were, will drive people away. I'm not saying you're not teaching the Bible, I just think you're not looking at the bigger picture presented by the Bible. Do you think that God was displeased with the music commanded in Psalm 150? Do you think that God found Miriam's singing and dancing in Ex. 15 unacceptable? Were other celebrations that included MI--Jer. 31:4, Neh. 12., 2 Chron. 7--offensive to God? I simply don't understand your logic. I don't see a command in Eph. 5:19, and Col 3:16, that has anything to do with MI in worship. Yet somehow we (CoC folks) have managed to draw out of these 2 "proof texts", a prohibition. Why does the singing mentioned mutually exlude doing so with MI? I've not seen a cogent answer to that question. Seems like we're inferring something that isn't there. I don't know if you've every attended a Christian music concert, but I can tell you that standing in an arena with 60,000 people who are lifting up their voices (and hearts) to God in praise--even with instruments--feels like a taste of heaven. The drums, nor piano, nor guitars, did anything to diminish what was going on in my heart---100% pure praise of our glorious God and Jesus the Christ. It is possible to do both--worship with MI and have your heart in tune with God.

[@LGministry]

Nathan Snell Thanks for your response. I cannot speak for the churches of Christ you are around, but the ones I am around are not only concerned about doing things right so that we can be pleasing to God, we also do what we can to help in our communities and abroad. We try to have great balance in teaching all of God truth and not just the parts that we like. If you are not serious about God’s Word then you do not love God (Jn. 14:15; 1 Jn. 5:3). I agree that if we were being legalistic (in the way you mean the word) with our man made traditions then that would certainly be wrong, but to firm and uphold what God’s Word teaches is not wrong. See the difference? No, God did not have a problem with those things He commanded under the O.T. If I were living under the Law of Moses, I would be preaching that we must use MI because God commanded their use 2 Chron. 29:25. What you do not seem to understand is that the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:14-15. It is no longer binding on us because we have been given a new/better covenant under Jesus. This new covenant tells us what we are supposed to do. If you can bring one thing over from the O.T. then you must be willing to bring them all over including animal sacrifices, MI, incense, drink offerings, Passover, stoning, etc. Col 3:16 and Eph. 5:19 commands us to SING and make the MELODY in our hearts. NOWHERE under the NC will you find a command to USE MI nor will find ONE example of one using them to worship God here on earth. God has told us what to do, which is sing, yet you want to add MI, which He did not command. If you read your Bible at all, then you know that God does not appreciate any additions to His Word. I have men talking about going to strip bar and say that is was a taste of heaven and I have heard them thank Jesus for it. Now, I know you agree that they were doing something sinful, but it felt good to them. That is the same principle behind your example. You can praise God all day long in whatever many that makes you feel good and makes you feel really connected to God, but feelings do not make you right with God. Saul certainly thought he was right with God when he tried to destroy Christianity, but is soon found out how wrong he was. If you want to be pleasing to God, then obey His commands, it really is that simple. You and I both know there is NO COMMAND for using MI in our worship to God.

[@InfoNathan]

Cougan Collins I think where our difference of opinion comes in is over what exactly is commanded in Col. 3 and Ep. 5. You are making the assumption that since MI is not mentioned specifically in those verses that it is automatically excluded. I am making no such inference. In fact, if you consider that many of the Psalms have a header that indicates they were for some type of MI (e.g. Psalm 55, 61, 67, 76), couldn't we infer that since Psalms are specificially mentioned in Eph. 5, that we could or should accompany those with MI? Or the fact that some of those Psalms even specifically reference using MI to praise God, would that not be a pretty good source to infer that praising God could be done with MI, regardless of the era? Could the same inference not also be made from Psalm 47, that we can clap our hands in praise to God? In fact, we sing a song that says just that in many CoC's. So are we allowed to only sing about doing the thing but not actually allowed to do the thing? Doesn't that seem a little silly? You are correct in that there is NO COMMAND in the NT that we are required to worship with MI, but there's also NO COMMAND not to. You are simply inferring that there is. There is also no command to: - Build and assemble in church buildings, (and there is no example of this in the NT. Most worship was done in homes.) - Use communion cups - Have a single song leader - Have a praise team - Not to clap during songs - Sit in rows of pews And yet we do all of these things. I know you make a distinction and call these things "aides and not additions." I could just as easily call MI an aide as an addition. Your counter example is ridiculous because going to a concert specifically for the purpose of praising God and going to a strip club are not comparable situations. Your premise is flawed.

[@LGministry]

Nathan SnellAs Jesus said: Matthew 22:29 "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. Nathan you should watch my other two sermons on WHY WE SING AND WHY DO NOT USE MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS as they answer everything you just stated above. Paul was in no advocating that we sing all Psalms in the O.T. because we are to teach and admonish with our songs as well, something a MI cannot do. Since we are under the N.T. we certainly would not want to sing Psalms talking about us sacrificing animals. However, what you seem to be missing is that the grammar of what Paul said in those verses makes the heart the instrument, which excludes any other kind of instrument. The grammar and meaning of words in the Greek are emphatic. So, no matter how much you want to make MI acceptable today, you cannot and never will find authorization for them just as you admitted in your comment. Are you willing to say that NOTHING explicitly forbidden in Scripture will be acceptable to God? If you are then just about any sinful thing would be allowable by God. BTW praise teams are not authorized in Scripture. However, the other things that you mention are either expedient or aids. I cover this in my sermons I recommended to you. There is no difference between clapping in beat with a song and playing a drum with a song. When one plays/claps they are adding something to the command sing. However, using a song book is an aid. As one, looks at the words and sings them, nothing has been added to the singing, in fact, it aids the person to know what words to sing and helps keep everyone together as they sing. While you could easily say that MI are aid, you could also easily say that pole dancing is just an aid to worship as well, but saying it does not make it so. Adding MI is clearly an addition and not an aid. Why not just give God what He asked for instead of what you want.

[@davidkennedy6251]

I believe the churches should spend their time working out how 'to love your neighbour as yourself.' It seems that the Church of Christ spends its time deciding whether hand clapping is allowed during worship. Their concept of God is really petty in that case.

[@LGministry]

+David Kennedy David, thanks for your comment. I understand why you might think hand clapping is a petty matter, but wouldn't agree that we should worship our God in spirit and in truth? If you will notice I have one sermon about hand clapping and hundreds of videos other topics including loving your neighbor as yourself. Like Paul, I am preaching the whole counsel of God from the perceived minor topics to the major ones. While I am preacher of the gospel, please understand that I am not an official representative of the church of Christ nor is there one. I am simply a man who loves God and wants to do those things He has commanded us to do. With this topic at hand, He has commanded us to sing, not play or use something like our hands to create a MI. Personally, I do not consider any matter as petty that is not authorized in Scripture. A quick study of the nature of God in the Bible will reveal that God cares about the details. While He is merciful and has made His grace available to us all, He is also a just a God and we will be judged by the Word and by things we have done. Even Jesus instructed the Pharisees and Scribes to keep both the minor and major parts of the Law of Moses in Mt. 23:23. So, you disagree with me if you want to, but I will continue to preach the whole counsel of God.

[@amyb5625]

Not all church of Christ congregations are like this. Some are, but most of the ones that are growing have come to a conclusion that some of our traditions are (while well intended) wrong. Sadly, there as many different church of Christ congregations as there are baptist congregations. Where I attend, we see those of the Baptist faith as our brothers, and other church of Christ congregations in my area do not like that about us. Others in the area don't clap and don't like the ones that do, others think that when taking communion, you literally drink from the same cup. Some don't believe in having Bible classes. Others don't believe in supporting orphanages, and sadly the list goes on and on. Why can't we just leave each other alone about how we each worship, just love each other, and leave the judging up to God? He doesn't need our help and our individual and group Bible studies can help each one of us understand what God wants from each of us.

[@davidkennedy6251]

Beloved I agree with you and you show great wisdom. David

[@amyb5625]

+David Kennedy thank you, my brother. I just get so sad when others try to tell someone that their worship is wrong and cannot specifically show where in the Bible that they are wrong . They base their judgement on interpretation, and do not consider that the other person's interpretation may also be right as well. I grew up in a congregation like that. They at one time were flourishing, but when they started doing that, they lost people and can now barely stay afloat. The place I attend now shows love to everyone, preaches word for word from the Bible, but reminds us of what was going on the time it was written, to whom each letter was written, and leaves interpretation to each of us. I understand it better now. God bless you in your walk.

[@amyb5625]

+John Mahon I agree. A person's relationship with God is an intimate one that involves study. As far as worship by goes, its going to be like everything else we do, imperfect, but God, because of what Jesus had done for us, will look through our imperfections right to the heart, and will accept the worship of those who truly love him. Why? Because He loves us.

[@charlesborg2601]

We should worship God in the Spirit and in Truth. We must not add or take what God commands. Clapping of hands is not part of the service. Let us not be emotional. Let us love and obey God the way He wants us, not how we feel. His thoughts are not our thoughts nor His ways are our ways.

[@LGministry]

Exactly!

[@jonathantucker6069]

Using your logic, "four-part harmony" is unacceptable. The early church did not sing in "four-part harmony", they chanted. It is clearly an addition and not an aid. It does not help us sing praises to God, it merely sounds pretty to man's ears. Plus, Ephesians 5:19 tells us to make melody in our hearts. Not with our mouths, and certainly not harmony.

[@LGministry]

Jonathan Tucker Thanks for your response. While you might think you have argument there, you really do not. We are commanded to sing, whether we do that by chanting or singing 4 part harmony, we are still singing are we not?

[@averageguy6107]

Cougan Collins It seems clear to me that he makes a clearly precise point. Why would you add to the clear commandments listed in the original context? The voice was not on par with "singing" as we would refer to today. Chanting was the only use for God in the first century eyes. In fact, melodic-harmony wasn't developed in the early church yet or anywhere. It was even considered heretical, and "pleasing to the ears" as Jonathan mentioned. For years original language and original Gregorian Chanting was only allowed in the church. Meditative, reflection, of exalting states of mind towards a heavenly father was done in chanting, prayer-like atmospheres. It was supposed to emulate a higher way of prayer. Instead you use the differences of peoples voices, pitch, etc. to make musical instrumentation, EXACTLY the same thing that occurs when one makes a false guitar sound... etc like you were saying in your video. You're just holding onto a small caveat that can lead to lawlessness. This is all using your logic of course, and it is all factual, you do not emulate the original church and do not own the rights of understanding the original church, you can only do your best with what history has allowed and has uncovered, and it seems you've already made mistakes. So mathematically (if you are familiar with calculus and infinites? as the limit of a function approaches infinity, at what exact infinitesimal understanding, at which small conceptual mishap, does god draw the line and cast you out as lawlessness that avoided to abide "the one piece of the law which ensures you violated all of the law"? Do you see what I'm saying? Am I picking on you, yes, did you have a rightful heart in making this video, yes! You have sincere convictions. The Church of Christ made its revelations in Kentucky in the protestant reformation and these bullet points have existed only since then. There is no fundamental proof of a church following the "CoC" outline until Alexander Campbell decided to make changes in the 19th century. Though it was his son who made the name "Church of Christ", he wanted to use the term "Disciples of Christ" , yet you use his son's term. What is comical about this whole circus act is that the son has completely dissociated church framework as the common Churches of Christ today. When you share videos of your shiny new armor, or "new idea about hand clapping", you remind me of the Pharisees that would parade through the streets bragging of their fasting and blinding their eyes to though's that were considered unworldly. You didn't create an aid Jonathan, you created an addition, your heart doesn't know it but the law does. (See the arrogance in it?, i'm not criticizing your strive I'm just reminding you of your own flaw)

[@averageguy6107]

***** * aid Cougan (I misspoke and said Jonathan)

[@averageguy6107]

***** And just to be clear, * Alexander was the son of Thomas *, to make the history more transparent.

[@jreyas6263]

Totally agree with you. I always wondered how the Church of Christ congregation sang so well. Was it the Holy Spirit guiding them? A friend said, "no, there are classes to learn the songs." What? I couldn't find in God's word where they had classes to learn hymns. Church of Christ sings hymns written by men AND women that were not of the Church of Christ, some were Methodists.

[@rangermaster52]

If we spent as much time and effort teaching the lost instead of fighting and arguing over opinions the world would be wont to Christ. if you don't want to clap at your congregation don't but don't judge other congregations that choose to.

[@amyb5625]

Amen!

[@LGministry]

+Robert Wagnon It is not opinion. The whole truth must be taught not just the parts you think are important. If you will notice I have about 220 full sermons on here and only 1 of them deals with hand clapping. I preach on everything from the perceived minor to the major. Now had did a video on how many songs we are supposed to have during a worship service or how long it supposed to be, etc then you would have a point.

[@chinovalleychurchofchrist3583]

+Cougan Collins Have you considered that "aides" to worship, which you confirm as acceptable, are likewise not authorized by Scripture?

[@LGministry]

+James Isenberg The reason the aids I mentioned are authorized by Scripture is because they do not change or add to the command. Please tell me how using a song book causes something other than singing to happen. Please tell me how using a song leader causes something other than singing to happen. It should be quite clear that when you add a MI, clap, beat box, etc something is being added to the singing. It really is that simple.

[@chinovalleychurchofchrist3583]

+Cougan Collins It may be simple to you, but can't you see where it may not be that simple to someone else? A songbook may not cause something other than singing to happen, but the bottom line is, it's still an addition to Ephesians 5:19 and other NT passages that deal with singing. If God intended us to use songbooks, he would have included them in the Scriptures. The Ephesians passage says to "sing and make music in your heart" so that rules out all other forms of BOTH singing and making music. They go together - we should only be singing in our hearts and not from a songbook. Now I don't really believe this, but you can't deny that I can make these same kinds of arguments against songbooks as you can about hand clapping.

[@theonlyone-xc3pu]

When we sing, we sing in harmony. Can we say the same regarding clapping or any other instrument? If a non-member walks in and the congregation is all singing (one could easily be directed to the page or words to the song) but how could you instruct the entire congregation to clapping in harmony or any other non-scriptural form of sound

[@nathangonzales9820]

I grew up in the CoC with my father being a minister my entire life. I really believe that this kind of thinking is going to make the CoC extinct with the next generations. CoC youth will be invited to go to church with friends where instruments and hand clapping is a norm and it is appealing and uplifting. Which teen wants to invite their friends over to a CoC when it realistically is THE most boring church these days?! We will lose our youth if we keep this close-minded mentality! i am really glad my father has been more open minded and understands all this and now hand clapping is a norm in our CoC and in many other CoC around the country. Many CoC's are dropping the name 'Church of Christ' and allowing instruments in worship and although they may lose a few, they are gaining at a tremendous rate! The bigger picture is to reach souls!

[@LGministry]

+Nathan Gonzales The church of Christ will never go extinct. There will always be a group of people who will love God and do their best to keep God’s Words. Your basic argument is that if something has become the norm because man says it the norm, then it should be acceptable for us to do, and if we don’t do it, then we are boring and no one is going to like us. Well, this may sound logically to worldly person who wants to be like everyone else, but for the Christians who loves God and obeys His commands, he will be more concerned about what God teaches than what man teaches. As Paul said: Gal. 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. Man can continue to do what he wants. He can change the name of on a building and bring in whatever he wants, but he cannot win more souls to Christ by offering up profane worship to Him. As Jesus told the Pharisees: Matt. 23:15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Now I can appreciate the desire to win more souls and certainly we should do what can to reach the lost, but not by compromising God’s Word because that is counter productive. It has never been about us, it about Him. It about worshiping Him in spirit and in truth (Jn. 4:24). You can say people like myself are closed minded, but we are not. We just proclaim what the Bible and in principles teach, and you really think about it, you will see that God’s Word is close minded as well. God’s Word is pretty specific. One last thought. You will never be to compete with Hollywood. The church is not an entertainment service, it’s a time of worship. The fact that you call that boring reveal much about your attitude toward it all. You can only get as much out of a worship service as you put into it.

[@nathangonzales9820]

+Cougan Collins The ultimate question is this: will we go to hell BECAUSE we clap our hands? No, we will not. It's not a salvation issue. Can our worship be pure even if we clap our hands? Yes it can be. I don't think God looks down or turns his face to us because we clap our hands.

[@LGministry]

+Nathan Gonzales If one continues to offer up vain worship to God, it can certainly keep them out of heaven. Using MI and variants of it is sin because is not faith. So, sin can keep you out heaven as well. While you might think hand clapping is not salvation issue, I believe the Bible teaches that it can be. Considering the following: So let me get this straight: Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden because they ate the forbidden fruit (Gen. 3). Nadab and Abihu were made crispy critters for using a profane fire (Lev. 10). Moses was not allowed into the promise land because he struck the rock instead of speaking to it (Num. 20). King Saul lost his kingship for not totally destroying all that God said to destroy (1 Sam. 15). Since the ark was not transported correctly and though Uzzah just tried to steady the ark, he was killed (1 Chron. 13). Though an unnamed prophet told King Jeroboam a message from God and then was lied to by a man saying that God told him to stay and eat, the unnamed prophet was killed by a lion (1 Kings 13). Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead for lying about how much money they got from a possession they sold (Acts 5). Simon put his soul in danger for trying to purchase the ability to pass on the Holy Spirit (Acts 8). Yet many today say that we should not be that concerned about the details of God’s Word. They say, we can use musical instruments, clap our hands, or beat box even though God just commands us to sing (Eph. 5:19; Col. 3:16). They say we can have women elders, preachers, and deacons, yet the Bible says these are positions for men (1 Tim. 2:11-15; 3). They say we can be saved by saying a sinner’s prayer and asking Jesus into our hearts even though this is not found in the Bible. They say that baptism is something you do after you are saved, yet the Bible says it’s the point our sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38; 22:16). They say one denomination is just as good as another, yet the Bible condemns denominations, which are divisions (1 Cor. 1:10ff). In fact, the Bible teaches that there is just one church/body of Christ (Eph. 4:4). Are you going to be gullible enough to buy into what man is selling you today, or are you going to start taking God’s Word seriously and doing what it says without adding to it or taking away from it? Matt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Also consider this: When is Worship Unacceptable? 1. When God is not the object of our worship nor is He the focus of our lives. John 4:24 • Hypocrisy and insincerity are not acceptable to God. 2. When we worship according to our own standard rather than God’s standard. Numbers 3:1-5 • Substituting what a person likes will not replace what God likes. 3. When we offer God what we think is our best rather than what He has asked. Genesis 4:3 • One’s best does not set aside God’s commandments. 4. When our worship is not in Spirit and in truth. John 4:24 • Man has invented many standards of worship while God still accepts only one. 5. When men’s ways of worship take preference over that which God has directed. Matthew 15:9 • Substituting what man wants and leaving out what God has commanded is not acceptable worship. 6. When men endeavor to worship under a law that is no longer binding. Hebrews 9:9; Colossians 2:14 • That which has been done away with by God is not to be brought back by man. “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” John 4:24

[@amyb5625]

ours is that open minded too. It's the heart that matters to God. Last month, we hosted a befit concert by a well known instrumental christian artist for a person with cancer. We are an acapella congregation but are open to our non acapella brothers who are also trying to serve the Lord with all their hearts. Don't you know we got judged harshly by our fellow church of Christ congregations? Our building was packed that night and views of the church of Christ by outsiders were changed for the better.

[@nto5gb239]

Clapping in church??? Dancing in church??? Having music to sing by in church???? Not in our church....Great message Mr. Collins.

[@JacobBrown2k1]

Does this also mean that we can't tap our feet while singing? Where does God authorize a song leader in the Bible? If people are worried about someone clapping their hands while singing praises to God, then they are not worshipping God as they should be. They are too busy policing everyone else's worship instead of focuses on their worship to God. This kind of legalistic approach to worship is what we as Christians must stop doing to each other. We must allow each other to worship God in our own way. We are all different, and from different backgrounds, cultures and have our own personalities. Hand clapping isn't against God's commands anymore than having a song leader. God bless.

[@LGministry]

+Jacob Brown I am guessing you did not watch the video because I talked about toe tapping. I also covered song leaders in my other video on singing. A song leader does add or change the command sing. A song leader is an aid that allows the worship service to be done decently and in order. However, clapping your hands to the beat add a percussion instrument to the mix so that something other than singing is being done. If we can clap to the beat, then we should be able to play the drums or add any MI we want to. I am pretty sure you would not take your argument to it bitter end that we can worship how we want to. I am sure you would draw the line somewhere. We are not supposed to worship God how we want to we are supposed to worship God how He wants us to, which is in spirit and in truth.

[@jan2740]

If this sermon is true on hand clapping..we are zombies in worship showing no emotion as God created us. Those who worship must worship in Spirit and in Truth. I suppose I should go back and watch this sermon again, but it seems this Minister quoted a lot of people other than the Bible to prove his point. Forgive my ignorance, but I've never heard of any of those people quoted. Former member of CoC and saved by Grace.

[@LGministry]

This sermon in no way is trying to make us zombies. It is no way saying we are to be without emotions. However, it does show that using musical instruments and hand clapping done rhythmically with a song are not authorized in Scripture. There is nothing wrong with being emotional, but how we express our emotions must be with in reason and not violate what God's Word teaches. For example, those who go to a concert might take off their shirts because they are caught up in the moment. Others may start jumping up and into each other. None of these things would be appropriate in a worship setting. After all, we are told to do things in a decent order and do things that edify. We cannot just do whatever we feel like based on emotions, that is why we are told to worship God in spirit and in truth. So, whatever emotional state we are in must be regulated by the God's Word. This sermon is all about wanting to give God what He has asked for and not what man wants to do to make himself feel good.

[@markdunnministries2384]

What about leaping??It's in the sacred text. "And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God." Acts 3:8Clapping is an expression of joy, and joy is determined by what Yehovah has done in an indaviduals life. You can't control how one expresses joy even in worship. You are trespassing into Yehovah's territory. A person's heart.

[@LGministry]

Really? You need to take your argument to its bitter end. Basically, you are saying that a person can express their joy in whatever manner they feel like. Not only can the leap around and clap their hands, you would not be able to deny a person going around and slapping people in the face, stripiing off their clothes, or doing cartwheels down the aisle. I could come up with a number of other vile things a person could do under the cover of joy. Are you willing to accept that ? I would hope not. I really wish people would think about how their logic can be used instead of limiting it to something they want. I also wish they would take a look at the context of the verses they are using. The example you gave of the man being healed was not a worship service, but was a response of being healed. If you going to use a example, at least use one that is valid.

[@markdunnministries2384]

I wish I would have known you responded. I would have responded the same day. I will try to stay on the surface here because if I start digging into the original Hebrew and Greek; this would be a book. LOL! Why put more emphasis on "religious service" etiquette than the worship itself? (Greek: blowing a kiss toward the Creator) You do know that there are more examples of what we call “worship services” in the Old Testament than in the New Testament right? In fact, He told trees and other creations in nature to clap for joy towards Him. And when we read about believers gathering in the New Testament; they were always in homes. (house to house) So is it a sin to have a church building. Oh, the buildings are aids, right? You said; I could come up with a number of other vile things a person could do under the cover of joy.” Do you know what the Greek word for joy or rejoice is in the sacred text? It is the feminine noun chara. I won’t go to deep into it here, but this word stems from the root word meaning grace. In short, joy is the awareness and recognition of Yehovah’s grace. Grace is the very source of joy, so are you saying grace would cause someone to do something vile? If you teach the congregation the true meaning of the word; everyone would understand that slapping someone in the face or any other vile action is not a proper response to grace. (Titus 2:11-12) You also stated, “but was a response of being healed” Who, are should I say what healed him? It was his response to the wonderful grace of Yeshua. According to your logic, we are in danger of hell fire if we emotionally respond to the grace of God in “worship services.” You have absolutely no scripture to back up your claim. Joy is not something we turn on and off. You said, “I also wish they would take a look at the context of the verses they are using. Ok.” You are talking about hand clapping in worship SERVICES right? Please answer these and you will see how relevant the context I’ve chosen is. Where was Peter and John going? Where did the man go to express his joy? What happened after he expressed his joy before the assembly? Here are your New Testament Scriptural sources: Ephesians 5:19 (Context is Christian behavior and maturity in the Christ) Is this a worship service setting or general instructions? Colossians 3:16 (Context is Christian mentality and behavior after being risen with the Christ) Was this a worship service setting or general instructions? Acts 10:26 (Context is Gentiles being issued into the Kingdom. They were not even Christians yet when Peter made this statement, so were they in worship service?) I do agree with the principle, but the context is not worship. Acts 14:12 (So glad you used this one even though I will not have space and time to dig deep into it.) The context is, Paul and Barnabas went into the Jewish synagogue (which was their custom) and preach the Christ. Some believe and some did not. However, Paul heals a lame man; and went the Jews saw the man jump up and walked they stoned Paul and brought him out thinking he was dead. But Yehovah saved him. When the disciples mobilized; Paul went right back and strengthened the congregations and ordained elders. Notice what word is mentioned at the end of the chapter when the CHURCH gathered together: 26 From Attalia they sailed back to Antioch, where they had been committed to the GRACE of God for the work they had now completed. (great teaching in here, but not a worship service example) I can do this with every scripture you presented, but I think you get the point: Romans 12:15 (Context not worship service) Acts 8:39 (Context not worship service) Acts 16:33 (Context not worship service) James 5:13 (Context not worship service)1 Corinthians 10:23 (Context not worship service) Here are your other sources, but I don’t feel the need to address them. They are not part of the biblical cannon. You cited more humans who agree with your theology than scripture. WikipidiaWayne Jackson and Jake Lewis/ Hugo Mcord/ Thayer/ F.W. Danker/ M.C Kurfees/ Theodoret of Cyrrus/ Everette Furguson/ Gregory of Naziansus / Dave Miller / William Grove You know the Pharisees were legalistic in their approach, and they worked the Messiah’s nerves. (Please excuse my bluntness) They forced the people to accept what they considered to be right and wrong. We need to approach the New Testament letters with the understanding that they were written to specific people addressing specific issues. Paul, Peter, James, and John never addressed issues like hand clapping during believer gatherings because it’s a non-issue. Read the NT, and we will see that it is about believing in the Son of God. This is the theme. Not just on Sundays but every day of our lives.

[@coreymartin8397]

WE REALLY NEED TO OBEY WHAT PLEASES GOD SND NOT OURSELVES. AMEN!

[@RMason6498]

Thank you brother for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth! Too many preachers and congregations want the sugar-coated messages of the feel-good gospel. Keep on preaching in season, out of season, rebuke, reprove and instruct!

[@harleco1]

Psalm 150 1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. 2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. 3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

[@dmmeredith82]

This is an earthly issue. Not a Kingdom issue. Having said that, I prefer acapella worship. I love hearing myself worship with other believers.

[@ptt3975]

Without even watching the video, I can tell which of the commenters below are not cut out for the Narrow Path. When you stand before the Throne and your sins are revealed, be sure to tell God, "Don't be so petty, Why waste time on that little thing, Shouldn't you be spending your time saving souls, God???"

[@jwcollins74]

If clapping is wrong, does that mean i can't tap my foot to the song we sing either? Or what if I quietly tapped my hand to the side of my leg. You know some people just can't stay still while they're singing. does that mean they should stay away from the church because they can't stay still. (and I'm not talking about someone being wild. I'm just referring to the simple tap my foot on the floor and tap my hand against my leg)

[@LGministry]

I am in no way advocating the idea that we must be a stone in the pew. There is a difference between someone tapping their foot or leg quietly and someone clapping out loud or stomping out loud to make a drum-like noise for the music. I think a little common sense will go a long ways. For more details check out this article www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=4804

[@jbarn49]

So if the person next to me is clapping and I am not, are we still both sinning? Should I immediately run away to protect my righteousness? No? What if someone plays a piano in front of the congregation. Will I be guilty of sin if I just sing along? What if I go for a walk in God's creation and I whistle a tune from The Majestic Hymnal or Great Songs of The Church instead of singing? or hum while snapping my fingers? Am I doomed to everlasting torment?

[@LGministry]

The person clapping is the one that is adding something not you, but the person should be taught that clapping rhythmically with the song is not what God wants. Your second example is different as it being sanctioned by the elders or people of the assembly. The piano is being used a part of the worship and therefore all who sing with it in participation would be participating in vain worship. Your third example is different altogether unless your intention is worshiping God with your whistling and snapping. Whether you are doomed to everlasting torment is not my decision. I just try and teach others to do your best to love God by obeying His commands. Let's give Him the respect He deserves and give Him what He asks for. He commands us to sing, not clap, whistle are anything else. No one can say that singing will be unacceptable to God, but the rest cannot be said about additions. My plea is simply to give God what He asked for without adding on things that I want.

[@michaelsmiley15]

Really think the point that were talking about the order of worship is 1st Corinthians 14 and it's clear The order is simply a list of things were what happens after another and 1st Corinthians 14 is clear while someone is speaking everyone else be silent while the Lord's Supper is happening everyone be silent while the song leader is leading and song everyone be silent we're singing of course but what it means is don't distract other people by what you're doing while someone's leaving prayer be silent that is the whole point of 1st Corinthians 14 and the scripture means what it says and says what it means and it must be adhered to

[@vrivera123]

It is neither a command, nor is it a restriction. It is simply a matter of preference Romans 14:1-9. Christ died for the hand clappers and for the ones who do not.

[@LGministry]

It's no different than playing an musical instrument. If you are willing to allow hand clapping as a preference then you must also be willing to allow musical instruments as a preference. No one denies that Jesus died for everyone, but that does not in anyway help your argument.

[@Tanusha157]

Although this is titled hand clapping, you did mention musical instruments, and how they are an addition and therefore change things. How would you interpret Psalm 150 "praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; praise Him with the lute and harp! Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! Praise Him with loud cymbals; praise Him with clashing cymbals! Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! The Bible clearly is not against musical instruments. How would you justify/clarify your position on this topic?

[@LGministry]

+Tanusha157 Simple. MI were commanded under the O.T. 2 Chron. 29:25, but we are under a new covenant that was put in place by Jesus. Our authority must come from the N.T. The N.T. tells us to sing and not play. Had God wanted us to pay MI, He would have commanded us to do so as He did in the O.T. Playing MI along with many other things done under the O.T. were done away with in the N.T. I hope this helps.

[@garywells3763]

"Whatever you do in word or deed..." ...we should all agree that scripture requires of us to have authority for all we do. It is no mistake that this imperative appears immediately after specifying what kind of music to offer. Clapping is not authorized for the obvious reason that it is not singing...singing is all that is authorized, therefore all non-singing acoustics are excluded. Rather than criticize and insist on continuing to follow one's own desires, please set forth a logical argument that demonstrates that you have authority to do all that you advocate. Thank you.

[@whittman187]

I appreciate your desire to honor God's word as the standard. In that same spirit I would like to ask, where does the scripture teach that the use of instruments to aid in worship. We see in Psalm 50 that the use of instruments in addition to dancing was welcomed and encouraged. Why would that change as a part of the new covenant? Where does the NT show any command that it is wrong or associate instrumental worship with sin? Could it be possible that the COC is passing judgment on a disreputable matter (Rom. 14)?

[@LGministry]

Robert Whitt Thanks for your comment and questions. The specific reason is not given in Scripture of why God left some laws in place, but removed others when the covenant changed, but the fact of the matter is that a change of covenants did happen and we are under the new one which is called a better covenant. If we lived under the Law of Moses I would certainly agree that we should use MI, but we are not. Now we can learn much from the principles taught in the OT because they shows us that God tells us what He wants. He commanded MI in the OT. 2 Chron. 29:25, but He did not command them in the N.T. He simply commanded us to sing and named the instrument as our hearts. Now if you compare the many physical things that had to be done under the OT to that of the NT you can clearly see that things are more spiritual and focused on the heart in the NT. So, it makes perfect sense to me that God did not command the use of MI because He does not need them, and He interested in what is coming from our hearts not some physical instrument.In fact, He even pointed this out in the O.T. as well (1 Sam. 15:22). We no longer have one place we have to go worship, we do not do animal sacrifices, we do not have all those feast to keep, etc.. The main reason we should not use MI is because God commanded us to sing and not play. EVERY example we have is people singing in the N.T. and early church history teaches the same. Adding MI is a new thing. Did you know that about every denominational preacher during the restoration period also preached against using MI, but everyone of these same denominations now embrace them. Did you watch my 2--part sermon on singing because I answer the question why we do not use MI? kzbin.info/aero/PL-K92Gw79WnS46bHdIM-VzMW_V0SkBOfx Just as a side not I want to make it clear the COC is not a denomination, it is simply a descriptive term to say that we belong to Christ and the church that He built (Mt. 16:18). We are Christians only and we do our best to uphold what is taught in the N.T. What I teach and preach is what I see the Scriptures teaching. I do not claim to know it all, but I do strive to know as much as I can so I can make sure I am doing my best to honor my Father in heaven. I love God and His grace and His mercy. We are so blessed to have such as wonderful God who loves us and has given us His Word that tells us a lot about Him and what He did for us.

[@jaysingleton4688]

job wife tried to tell job how to worship DAVID wife did the same YOU PEOPLE HAVE THIS GREAT NEED TO BE GOD WHO LOOK AT THE HEART AND YOU ARE FOOLING YOUR SELF IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT IS IN THE HEART OF SOME ONE WHEN THEY ARE CLAPPING THEIR HAND

[@lindahutchens8612]

Jay Singleton Please don't judge all of us who go to COC; I do not agree with hand clapping being wrong during a baptism; I am one of these who does clap.

[@charlesfranklin2300]

Any dress code command from the bible for worship? Pants, shirts, ties, suits, or is it oka to wear cultural ethnic clothing, which command is a guide to address this issue?

[@LGministry]

Dress in a way the professes godliness. There is no command for a specific kind of clothing, but many wear what they would if they were going to be in front of God.

[@charlesfranklin2300]

@@LGministry thank you, your doing a great job, in wanting to retain the authority of the scriptures, but would not be healthy, if we have a balanced approach, word of the law vs spirit of the law.

[@spark300c]

I feel that hand clapping help the listener or praiser can prevent them going into a trace and stay focus on the song. I have add and find hard to stay focus on the words of the song. audience participation is important to make people feel apart of worship and stay focus.

[@LGministry]

+spark300c It doesn't really matter what you feel, what matters is if it is authorized. Since it is not, it needs to be avoided.

[@spark300c]

Cougan Collins it is authorized. psalms 47:1 O clap your hands, all peoples; Shout to God with the voice of joy.for it to be not authorized the new testament has to speak against it. also in early church music was not issue that why disciples do not speak much about it.

[@LGministry]

+spark300c I would applaud you if you had only used the New Testament. We are not under the O.T.

[@billrichardson4873]

I fully agree, this is not being silent where the Bible is silent!!!! No Biblical reference is found......

[@JimiSurvivor]

When Paul said: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…(2 Timothy 3:16-17) what "scriptures" was he referring to - the NT scriptures? While these are inspired in context these verses are referring to the OT Bible. We know this because of what verse 15 says: …15 From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Timothy 3:16). The Holy Scriptures Timothy was raised with was the OT. When understood properly they speak of the Messiah and outline the plan of salvation. Therefore, unless OT injunctions have been specifically abrogated (laws like circumcision, eating kosher, keeping feast days) we must still count them as obligatory (e.g., moral commandments). Assuming that NONE of the OT applies to us negates 2 Timothy 3:15-17 altogether. What this COC minister has done is to make his own particular traditions his guiding principle rather than the Word of God. Why? Seemingly because he finds such practices as hand-clapping and instrument playing distasteful and irreverent. In the same way, members of the Catholic Church centuries ago might have found singing hymns instead of the Mass distasteful and irreverent In Jesus' day, the Pharisees through their traditions built a "fence around the law" in order to prevent people from disobeying the ACTUAL Law. Eventually, these traditions become equal to and even greater than the Law. That is what this minister is doing here. By making "applause during the Church service taboo" he is making the tradition of CERTAIN Churches a brand new law even though such a command is never recorded in the Bible. To support this proposition he calls on the witness of the prophet Wiki. When the Bible or part of the Bible does NOT say something he imports into that empty place a new command gathered from his own traditions. In fact, the "God-breathed" scriptures favorably command clapping in worship (Psalm 47:1) as well as the beating of percussion instruments: 5 Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with resounding cymbals.…(Psalm 150:5). The same Bible which Paul said was "profitable for doctrine" also recommends the playing of instruments: 3 Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! 4 Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! (Psalm 150:3-4) Of course, every person in the OT did not play an instrument so it cannot be assumed that the verse is commanding everyone in the Church to play an instrument. When the Psalm was written, Levites who could actually play were assigned to that ministry.

[@jamieware6324]

This is based on interpreting through ‘speaking where the Bible speaks and being silent where the Bible is silent’ and ‘command, example and necessary inference.’ Ironically, both of these are not found in the Scripture. The lesson also relies on a slippery slope fallacy. This is legalism and what the Lord excoriated the Pharisees for.

[@LGministry]

Actually, this principle is found within Scripture. I would invite you to consider my video on this topic at kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqS8aIaaqrKjqcU The whole concept is simple. If God tells us what to do and we add to it or take away from it, then we are doing something He as not asked for. Why would we, want to do something different that what God has said? What is the purpose of doing such a thing? Do we the right to do what is right in our own eyes just because it feels good?

[@ednasmith8444]

Tested! and it is unbelievable how you have twisted the scriptures. You are obviously sincere but I will say, without doubt, I would never observe the Joy of the Lord in your presence. You have continuously judged people. God looks on the heart and I believe He would say to you, you are putting burdens on others . Whom the Son sets free, is free indeed! Why would you want to spend so much of your time telling others what not to do when the world needs to hear the Good News of Jesus' Love . I would rather follow Paul, who said," I am determined to know nothing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him, crucified... Honestly, dear brother in Christ, my heart aches to hear such preaching. If you prefer to lead your people without instruments etc. well that is one thing, but all I can say is, how sad.

[@LGministry]

I am not judging anyone personally. I am simply teaching what the Bible teaches because I love God. When I teach such things that go against what you do, it is the Word of God that is judging you. Paul also said, Acts 20:27 "For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Paul, did not limit his message to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection and neither will I. If you will notice I have several hundred sermons and devotionals on my channel and I cover a variety of topics. In fact, this sermon is the only one in which I deal with handclapping. I do have 2 other sermons that talk about why we sing only and don't use MI, but that is 3 sermons in total of hundreds on other topics. What I prefer to do is to preach the whole counsel of God including the topic of using MI. I love God, and He has told me what He wants us to do. He said sing not play or do what you want to. You would will do well to take heed to what Jesus said that clearly teaches against the idea that we can just ignore the will of God. Matt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

[@read1John]

Since Paul clearly said he had declared the WHOLE council of God please show me the verses where he condemned clapping or making other joyful sounds of praise. You are assuming they did not clap or lift their hands in praise. I mention lift their hands in praise because there are some members of the church of Christ who criticize others who do that too. Preaching on these kind of things does nothing but cause division. It certainly is not a message that draws a person to Christ.

[@charlesfranklin2300]

After all the topics in the bible, you got this topic to talk about instead of saving souls through love and warmth, laying down lives for others, but rather devouring eachother on something. Half of your content is addition made by humans quotation, and your violating do not add anything to the word passage

[@LGministry]

Are we not supposed to preach on whole counsel of God? That is what is I do. This particular sermon is one out over 500 I have done. Just because you don't like the topic, doesn't mean it shouldn't be preached. The same verses that show that we are to sing and not play are are same verses used to make my point about hand clapping being used as a MI. I didn't quote these people as being inspired by the Holy Spirit, rather they were used to show grammar and meaning of words. If you watch my lesson on singing, you will see quotes from many denominational preachers in the past that understood the what Scripture teach, which that we are to sing with our voices, not play MI as part of our worship to God. Maybe you feel comfortable adding things that God didn't authorize for our worship, but I am not.

[@jonathantucker6069]

Cougan, yes we are "still singing" if we use the broader definition of singing in use today. However, we are not simply singing if we look at the original intent of Paul's words in Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16. Four-part harmony didn't exist in the first century. When Paul wrote to the Christians in Ephesus and Colossae, he didn't mean just any type of sound coming from a person's mouth, he meant simple chanting. That's what he understood and it's what his readers understood. Over the centuries, style of music changed and evolved. It wasn't until the 17th century that anything remotely akin to our modern music came into congregational singing. Basically, singing in four-part harmony is adding to the Word of God. Isn't this incrementalism? Why not allow beat-boxing? Isn't it just a natural progression in our definition of "singing?"

[@LGministry]

By your own admission what we are doing is singing, which proves my point. Singing a 4 part harmony is still singing. We are singing words that can be understood and they teach and admonish. However, beat-boxing cannot do that because it just emulates a musical instrument. Therefore beat-boxing can never be classified as singing.

[@sparky4581]

Wow setting rules where there is no rules. You know the first century church it was not a custom to wearing suits, thus in religious piety drawing attention to oneself. People like he said if you add one thing how far will you take it. Where are the head covering and foot washing at the COC? Investigate the things you are being told. I am not saying go where there is foot washing or people without suits or the such.

[@ruthmccollum8796]

While I agree with what you say, I think we need to place more emphasis on salvation. I'm a member of the CoC - I was baptized at age 16 - I was 'born and raised' in the church and I'm so thankful for that. Sometimes we get caught up in trivial subjects when we should be focusing on spreading the Truth to the world. People have asked me, "Do you REALLY believe that God would send you to hell if you used a piano in worship service?" I always hesitate to answer because I feel that I would be judging so I just quote scripture to them and ask them not to 'shoot the messenger'.....and talk with God about it on Judgement Day.

[@LGministry]

Ruth, I completely agree that we should not make a hobby horse of any subject. If you will notice, I currently have 465 videos on KZbin and only 1 of them deals with handclapping. I do my best to preach on all of God's Word, which is exactly what we should be doing. Preaching on handclapping shouldn't be avoided just because people don't like it or think it's a minor thing. As you said, the best thing you can do is present the Scriptures and then allow people to think about it because they have a free will and must decide for themselves. There decision will between them and God. However, we can certainly say that when someone practices something not authorized in Scripture, we can call it sin or vain worship, but the judgment will be left up to God, which will be based on the Word.

[@richieallen7449]

Dear brother in Christ, Brother Collins I think that this is a slippery slope here. I believe that you are sincere in your teaching and are speaking from your heart so please do not look at this as a personal attack on you. I just felt the need to reply and ask some additional questions. First, some clap not necessarily to keep a beat. Some clap, other say “amen”, others may raise their hands and/or bow their heads in submission. Our bodies are not mechanical instruments in any way, shape, or form. We were created, not copied or forged. The human voice is probably the only instrument that man cannot perfectly create for the ground up as God did. Hand clapping is similar if not the same as tapping your foot. True, if you get enough people doing that, you will have a beat or rhythm but is it sinful? Is it instinctual? Why can this action not be instinctive? I remember back in the older church buildings when the Evangelist/Preacher would sit in the pulpit prior to delivering the message they would tap their foot while singing prior to delivering the message and it did not negatively impact my worship, nor did I ever hear anyone complain openly about it. In retrospect, his foot appears to be instinctively moving, and on the old wooden floors that were underneath the carpet it would create a rhythm. With that being said, I agree with you about the beat boxing. It is not singing, nor are words or notes coming from the voice. I have to point out and ask this to be fair to the discussion: An “aid” within itself is an “addition” because it was not present until we introduced it. A song leader is not expressly “authorized” by scripture nor is it condemned. Furthermore, a pitch pipe/fork, etc. is in truth- mechanical. While usually no one is singing to this instrument (outside of a hum to the note), is it scriptural to even bring it to the worship service? Who determines that? How is this not an addition? Many song leaders today are very well trained and can pitch well without one. What did the church do before the pitch pipe came into existence? From what I can remember the song leader gave the pitch from his voice, started the song, and the congregation followed. We have used for years that God “loosed” this or “binded/bound” that to prove our teachings, but sometimes we can confuse traditions or laws of men with doctrine. Men with good intentions in most cases, but still-we are men. Who authorized the pitch pipe and what determines if it is right or wrong? Do we have scriptural backing for a song leader? The song leader does not have the scriptural backing either (To your point of clapping or Applauding). I get the lawful and expediency scripture (I Cor 10:23), I am just asking to point out it is a fine line we tow. We may not like certain things, but that does not immediately make it sinful. We have the choice to leave and find another church family that suits our beliefs better. When Peter told the man to stand, it was Peter recognizing that he himself is not the one to be worshiped and that this right did not belong to him. He told the man correctly that he is just a man. From the worship services I have attended (both conservative and progressive), I cannot say that the persons clapping during the songs or sermon were worshiping the man leading them anymore than those who sat still or silently during them. Frankly I do not know what they were doing because I do not know their hearts and what is going on in their life at that time. As a young man, I remember one of our mottos was to “Speak where the bible speaks, and be silent where the bible is silent”. We should go back to that on many things. God knows out heart and we can cause people to stumble with all of these unwritten rules.

[@LGministry]

Thank you for your kind response. Sorry, it took me so long to respond, but KZbin does not let me know when people post things. I have to go look. Anyways, we have 2 different issues here. First, is clapping rhythmically with a song. When you clap to the tune of the song, that is NO DIFFERENT than than beating on drum, which is no different that playing an instrument. One cannot clap in rhythm with a song and logically claim it is for some other purpose. Even if you could dream up some strange purpose, it would not change the fact that an audible noise is being made like a drum that just happens to be sync with the song. While some might tap their foot or leg in a quite fashion especially those who are in band and have a habit of doing so, that motion does not make noise. This may seem like a minor difference to you, but it is not. These things are not the same as clapping one's hands. In my opinion, there is no wiggle room whatsoever when it comes to clapping rhythmically with a song. Second, we are talking about clapping instead of saying amen. Is clapping the same as saying amen. No, it is not. Could someone be fully convinced in their own minds that clapping is equal to to saying amen? Yes, they could but that does not mean that it is and there certainly is not a N.T. example of such. Some claim that clapping is just form of rejoicing. While some have no problem with clapping at a baptism, you don't see them clapping at the Lord's Supper even though the Lord's Supper and baptism have the same common theme of Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. All, I am saying is that we should really think about what our clapping might lead to in instances like these. I understand fully that this avenue of clapping may be more in a grey area, but using the same verse you pointed to Paul said: 1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. While some laugh at such a notion as refraining from clapping for the preacher or someone's baptism, I would rather not risk giving people the wrong idea or doing something that would dishonor God. Instead, of clapping, I would rather stick with what the Bible says, which is saying amen or simply feeling the emotion, which might be expressed in with a big smile on my face or with tears rolling down my cheek. Personally, I don't use a pitch pipe, but these devices are only used to get the right pitch and then they are put away. In fact, the only person who hears the device is the song leader most of the time, and he certainly isn't playing it with the song, but on makes one sound before the song begins. There is really no comparing a device that is used to get the right pitch that very few if any hear it as opposed to people clapping their hands throughout the song. If you will watch my other videos on MI, I show how a song leader can be used. He is not different than one leading a prayer. He is simply making sure the service is done an orderly fashion as he picks out songs for us to sing.

[@richieallen7449]

Hello Bro. Collins! Thank you for your response and thank you for encouraging me to watch your video on mechanical instruments. I would love to check them out. I have been worshiping with the Churches of Christ since a young age and mechanical instruments has been a growing hot topic among the churches for a long time- to the point where it is not spoken on as much in present time. While I still do not totally agree with your perspective on clapping, I do respect your thoughts on the matter of clapping. Not many have the courage to put videos dealing with sensitivescriptural matters out to the public so thank you for doing so. With respect to the foot tapping portion of the conversation. I have visited and actually grew up in congregations where the foot tapping did make an audible sound and it created an audible rhythm. I realize that many of the buildings now are constructed differently than they were 30-some odd years ago (wooden floors covered by carpet), but I still do not recall any complaints about foot tapping on them then in spite of the fact that an audible rhythm was created. If clapping is not according to scripture, one could reasonably claim that in situations where foot tapping becomes audible-- is not according to scripture as well. I would imagine, but cannot say for certain, that this situation would probably not as common now as it was back then. The differences, in my opinion, between clapping and playing the drum are that the drum has to be present in order to be played. In principle, though, I see where you are going, but if neither drum nor any other instrument are present in the worship service, how is this not different. The clapping comes from within and is expressed by the body. If nothing mechanical is present...it cannot be played to express rhythmically. My comments comparing it to saying amen were more to point out that different people show agreeance, affirm, or rejoice differently and not to equate them. Some say "amen", others may say "alright!", others may shout out "preach!". I have even heard some exclaim "yes sir!" during a sermon as well as clapping. I cannot find fault with either. All of these are similar in that they are forms of expression by the individual. Admittedly, I have not witnessed anyone clap during the Lord's Supper at any point in my life that I can recall. I have witnessed some sobbing or nodding of heads, but not clapping. However, with that being said......the Lord's Supper does tend to be a more somber moment during the worship as it is in remembrance, so I could see why no one claps, but I honestly don't know . However with baptism-isn't that more of a time of rejoicing? Luke 15:10. Out of what you have stated, this is the statement that I find heartwarming. " I would rather not risk giving people the wrong idea... or doing something that would dishonor God. Instead, of clapping, I would rather stick with what the Bible says, which is saying amen or simply feeling the emotion, which might be expressed in with a big smile on my face or with tears rolling down my cheek". I would rather not risk....I can appreciate that, and I greatly respect that and I believe most reasonable people will as well. In example, If I were a more fragile soul, I would be more apt to listen with this approach rather than someone just telling me that I am not right. I realize that my approval is not needed, but I appreciated it. To the pitch pipe: I don't use one either and for the record, I do not condemn them. Most of the song leaders I know do not use them, but I have worshiped at congregations where they are used and I am fine with it as its use does not challenge my faith. Referencing again I Corinthians 10:23. To be fair to the conversation, a pitch pipe is distinctly audible whereas a tuning or pitch fork are not. I have also heard others hum the note along with a pitch pipe before a song leader removes it from his mouth when they hear it. I was just expressing that it can be a gray area on how we justify one thing but condemn another when both are similar. In this case an aid vs an addition. With both, neither of them existed in worship until we (man) introduced them. I do not disagree with a song leader either, I just cannot recall a scripture that authorizes or condemns a song leader or a pitch pipe. Neither can I find one that authorizes or condemns clapping. I see where you are going in principle, I just cannot see where clapping of my God made hands can equate to bringing in a man made drum, cymbal, bongo, or any other man made instrument (That I would need my hands to do for me). Again, thank you for your response I look forward to seeing more of your videos. I just want to emphasize again that there is no ill will or intentions behind my comments. We are brothers in Christ and I thank you what you do. In Him, Richie

[@LGministry]

You are a fresh breath of air and a good example of how two people can have an honest discussion in a very civil way. Regarding the foot taping, I agree that it can become the same as hand clapping if done in the right place with the right kind of shoes and floor. In that case, I would say they need to cease doing it. Some have went as far as to stomp to the beat of the music, which is again nothing more than making the floor into an instrument because of how it is being done. One does not have to have a mechanical instrument in place to make music. If you ask a band teacher about clapping hands, they will tell that it is a percussion instrument. In fact, notice the definition of percussion: 1. musical instruments played by striking with the hand or with a handheld or pedal-operated stick or beater, or by shaking, including drums, cymbals, xylophones, gongs, bells, and rattles. 2. the striking of one solid object with or against another with some degree of force. 3. the action of tapping a part of the body as part of a diagnosis. This was just the first dictionary I went to, but you can see from number 2 that clapping one's hands would certainly qualify as percussion instrument. BTW, hands are mechanical. The complexity of our mechanical hands is just one example of how complex our bodies our, which shows that there is no way they just evolved that way over millions of years, but that is another topic. Without a doubt, there really is not much difference between a drum, which is skin streached across a barrel and skin on our hands. When it comes right down to it, clapping rhythmically with the song is about what the person wants to do or feel, but has nothing to do with what God wants, which is singing. Logically, if you say that singing and clapping can be done and still be pleasing to God, then you can add anything else that you want as long you are singing at the same time. If not, why not? I completely understand that people get emotional and they really want to express that emotion in some way, but we need to remember what Jesus said: Jn. 4:24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." The spirit side would certainly include our emotions, but there is an 'and' in this verse which shows that we must also worship in truth. So, our emotions cannot override truth not matter how good it may feel. So, emotions and what we do because of them must be regulated by the truth. The truth is God's Word. God has commanded us to sing. You cannot find one example in the N.T. in which the Christians clapped as part of their worship to God. This being the case, I will exercise self-control and not allow my emotions to cause me to do something that God has not authorized me to do. Yes, He is a loving God. Perhaps, He might say, "Cougan, you are being foolish, I created you with emotions and I understand that you might want to express yourself because the way you feel about me." Personally, I would rather be called foolish by God later on for this then doing things like clapping my hands when there is no command or example for it. I love and appreciate you Richie. I am enjoying our conversation. My main goal in this life is to respect God and His Word to the best of ability. I understand that I am human, and I can make mistakes, but I am very thankful that we serve a merciful and just God.

[@richieallen7449]

Bro. Collins, Thank you so much for your kind words. It is refreshing to have a conversation about biblical matters without insulting one another. I sincerely appreciate the ability to have a discussion rather than a shouting match or an argument simply for the sake of arguing. Others who see members of the church should know that we can discuss these matters in a civil and respectful way with each other. I love, appreciate, and respect you as well brother. Take care and God bless. In Him, Richie Allen

[@curtisabraham6016]

Brother Collins, as a fellow preacher in the church of Christ, I will say to you it's high time we stop majoring in minor things. Clapping is NOT a salvific issue. Also, I think it's somewhat misleading to equate clappin your hands (God made) to beating a drum (man made). It is small mindedness like this that hurts the church. I really think what you're saying is ABSOLUTELY pointless.

[@leader4029]

Please give me a scripture against it. I know the drill. I attended the Church of Christ for 35 years and a Christian college. Over the years I saw the church split because some said there was no scripture for individual communion cups. I saw people leave because the congregation approved an addition to the building that would serve as a fellowship room where food would be served. Some left because that room was rented for a community function...voting precinct. There are no scriptures specifically authorizing Sunday school or vacation Bible school either. Authoritarian type personalities in the Church of Christ condemn anything different. None of these personal preferences have anything to do with salvation. You make salvation so complicated. God made it simple. His yoke is easy and his burden is light. I feel sad that you are making it so hard. I really shouldn't bother commenting but when I saw that you are even picking on hand clapping now, I just couldn't believe it.

[@LGministry]

+Linda Eader It is always a shame when brethren split over dumb thing. I am in no way saying that I have all the right answers,I just do my best to be pleasing to God. Using one cup is fine but so is two because the emphasis in the fruit of the vine not the container. It places that have 10,000 members, you cannot make one cup last in a large group like that. The are church meet in homes and various places and they ate with each other. So, there is nothing wrong with having fellowship hall. Sunday school falls under the principle of elders making sure the flock if fed. You are looking at all of this from the wong perspective. I and people like me are not trying to tell people what they should do or not do based on our opinion. I say them because clapping your hands in place of MI is not authorized and God means what He says. He tells us to sing Eph 5:19 so that is what we do. If He said play, I would play, but there are NO commands to play and no examples of playing. So, when I sing, I can know I am doing that which God has told me to do, but if I play a MI/clap my hands then I cannot say that God has told me to do this. This is a fact. We should only do those things God has commanded us to do. However, we should not invent things like using only one cup as the only way to do things. What you need to prove is that clapping your hands to the beat of the music is not using your hands to make noise similar to MI even though hey are being clapped with the beat of the music.

[@freidakirtsey6230]

+Cougan Collins If clapping your hands is wrong then is it wrong to tap your foot or the song leader to get up there and "sling his hand" around to keep the rhythm. Hearing a clap or a tap of a foot helps me with keeping the same rhythm. I was bred, born and raised in the CoC, but when I got married and they refused to allow a piano or other MI brought in turned me against the church. Yet they allowed me to use the old records and record player for my music plus those recordings had IM in them. Years later, when my daughter married in the church she was allowed to use recordings with ALL IM.

[@LGministry]

+Freida Thomas I know there is lots of comments on this video, but I have already discussed at length about taping your feet and song leaders using their hands. Why would it turn you against the church because of their inconsistencies? There should not be an MI of any kind used under any format regarding worship. You have to remember humans make up the church, and they are not always consistent, but I try my best to be. Now regarding a wedding, that is not a worship service and the building is not the church, the people make up the church. So, having some MI with song for a wedding should not be a problem because you are not worshipping God at a wedding. However, I would respect an eldership decision to not allow MI within the building if they thought it might confuse people. When I got married, they would not allow MI in a song to be used in the building, but they allowed us to use MI with song while having the wedding outside the building still on church property. While that seems inconsistent, I abided by their wishes. It certainly would not turn me against the church.

[@lindahutchens8612]

I am so sad that you left COC but you are right about Sunday school and vacation bible school not being scriptural. we do sometimes pick and choose but overall the gospel is right. This handclapping thing is too much; I would think the Lord would be happy that we are happy after a baptism. I pray you try another congregation of COC; God bless.

[@johnmeadows5645]

thank you brother for preaching against this sinful practice. if i found myself at a congregation ,while traveling, and they began doing one of those things, i would get up and leave. like brother cougan said, when you start changing the worship service, even in a small way, you are opening up a door in which all types of bad things can come through.

[@DLS4606]

Next thing you know we will get a sermon on not using a pitch pipe. Is the Bible silent on this? Is CENI in view here? Is using a song book found in scripture? God knows the heart of all of us. I agree with the other comments. We have bigger battles to fight

[@LGministry]

If you watch the first two lessons in this series I will point out the the difference between aids and additions. For example, song books are aids and do not change the command to sing, but adding MI is addition because something additional is happening besides singing. Regarding the idea that we have bigger battles to wage, I would point out that we need to be concerned about the perceived small things and big things. If you will look through my videos you will see that I only have one lesson handclapping and two other lessons about why we don't use MI. The rest of HUNDREDS of lessons are about various topics. So, you these 3 lessons I have preached on this topic make up less than 1% of my lessons. Now, if over half my lessons was me preaching on this same topic over and over again you would have point, but as I have shown you don't.

[@josephsmith5909]

Hi Cougan.Thanks for that interesting message, which I have never really thought much about before now. You make some interesting points, some of which I agree with, and some I don't...yet. I will quote some of what you said or quoted in the video in the time period 15:20-18:10, and then ask you 5 non-rhetorical questions. Please answer them individually. The video says: ‘Notice also that “amen” is not really designed to communicate the idea “I agree with that” or “I like that.” Biblically it doesn’t really matter…’ Q1. How is what ‘amen’ is ‘really designed to communicate’ (i.e. Biblically) relevant here, since you are considering what it may mean in current American culture? Q2. Do you believe that many people in American culture say amen for those very reasons (i.e. “I agree with that” or “I like that”)? I believe it, and I do it (rightly or wrongly). The video says: ‘Consequently, handclapping in American culture is not parallel to saying “amen” in the Bible’. Q3. OK, but is saying “amen” in American culture parallel to saying “amen” in the Bible? (See Q2.) Q4. If not, then we’d better stop saying amen in sermons, too (or somehow change the meaning of it throughout American church culture, and if we can perform that miracle, then we can change the meaning of applause while we’re at it, and then we can use both of them), right? The video says: “While some preachers may not be affected by such applause, I believe many are. If they are receiving applause for their preaching, this can certainly cause some to be puffed up.” Q5. To be consistent with this belief of who is affected by what, if I were preaching I think I could become puffed up whether people applaud OR say “amen”, regardless of what their intention was. What say you to this, Cougan? (Admittedly probably more so for applause, but it would depend on what I had said before the applause. To take an extreme example, if I had said “clap your hands, oh you people” or “let’s make a joyful noise to the Lord”, and people shouted and clapped in response, then I doubt it would puff me up. But the same could apply to less extreme examples.) Thanks.

[@markpearce3058]

Rev 15:2 talkes about the Harps of God. Psalms filled with examples of praise and worship with instruments. Which Paul refers to. 2Timothy 3:16 says that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness.Psalm is part of all scripture that Paul refers to. In the Greek the word Psalm means song sung to a harp. The last time I checked a harp was a musical instrument. Now that’s what scripture says.

[@thundershadow]

It must be by Grace so that it can be by faith. Works relying on faith need assurance from grace. If it isn't motivated by Grace then it isn't faith. You have nothing to justify actions uninitiated by God.

[@geoffstuck7203]

What about the microphone and the sound system, the video projector and some sort of lighting, and the others of such like? Are these not instruments that churches use today? And if, musical instruments, however loud or soft they are, are not accepted by God during worship (and you know worship is not just on Sundays and not just inside the church building), what of David (the man after God's own heart) using stringed instrument?

[@LGministry]

King Lopina Great questions! What we have to do is ask the question if something is an aid or addition, which I pointed out in the video. An aid does not add to what is commanded, but an addition does. So, let’s put your questions to the test. We know that we are commanded to preach God’s Word. Obviously, we can preach in different languages, we can preach outside or inside, we can preach loudly or softly, we can preach siting down or standing up. None of these things would change the fact that we are preaching God’s Word. A microphone and sound system does nothing more than magnify ones voice, so they are aid and make it easier for a person’s voice to be heard. Jesus did this with natural setting around Him. He used the water and a mountain. A video projector, white board or other objects are used for illustrations that go along with what the preacher is preaching about. For example, if he is talking about the temple of Jerusalem, he might put up an image of the temple and show how it was laid out, or he may put the Scriptures on the screen that he is using to make it easier for people to follow along, but none this add to the preaching because just the Word of God is being proclaimed, therefore all these things are aids and not additions. None of the things I have talked about so far are necessary and neither are lights, but they do allow us to see and certainly do not add anything to any command. Instead, they aid is being able to see. Now, when we add a musical instrument that is being played, something other than singing is occurring. So, musical instruments are an addition and not an aid. I have no problem with David and those under the O.T. using MI because they commanded to use them (2 Chron. 29:25), but we are not under the O.T. its binding authority was nailed to the cross (Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:14ff). We are under a new law, and we must go by what the new says. If we can bring one thing over from the Law of Moses then we must bring all of it over. You cannot pick and choose what you want. Under the N.T. we are commanded to sing (Eph. 5;19) and EVERY example is of people singing. If God wanted us to play MI, He would have commanded us to do so, but He did not, so we should not add them no matter how much we like them. I hope this helps answer your questions. I would recommend you watch my two part lesson on singing. @playlist?list=PL-K92Gw79WnS46bHdIM-VzMW_V0SkBOfx

[@newbirthanswers4u]

it's amazing the lengths of rationalization utilized to defend a particular religious tradition and prohibitions. CofC churches are just as bound by tradition as the Catholics. SMH Quoting Wikipedia? Forbidding to clap in worship when the Bible specifically commands it.

[@LGministry]

I am not defending a man made tradition. The New Testament is our authority and nowhere does it command hand clapping. We are nothing like the Catholics who add all kinds of rituals to their worship. We simply give God what He asked for. He commands us to sing not clap. If you watched the video you would see how clapping your hands to the song is no different than beating a drum, but I suppose you probably don't see a problem with using lifeless instruments either. Those who add things to their worship that God did not authorize are worshipping God in vain. So when you add things like clapping your hands that makes you more the Catholics, which is the very thing you accused me of.

[@CindyTemple]

What scripture says if we add something already known as part of Jewish worship (our Savior is a Jew) that the worship is in vain?

[@lindahutchens8612]

Not all COC are legalistic.. I go to one that has one worship service acapella and one with instruments. I will never stop clapping at a baptism; all should be joyful the day a soul is saved.

[@hollymorefield6216]

I only hope you worry as much about leading others to Christ as you do clapping your hands for goodness sake!

[@LGministry]

I am concerned about all of God's will whether it be considered minor or major to others. Of course, my number 1 goal is to reach souls with the truth, but I also want people to make sure they are worshiping God in spirit and in truth otherwise you worship will not be accepted by Him. Surely, you think there much more Christianity than just leading people to Christ. Surely, you think it's important to continue to train people in the way of the Lord especial since we be judged by the Word of God.

[@hollymorefield6216]

Cougan Collins Oh you can be most certain I do worship God in spirit and in truth. I also understand that once you lead someone to Christ they are young Christians and it is very important that these new brothers and sisters are taught the truth in love without condemnation or abuse. I am a survivor of religious abuse and know how easy it is for people to be nic picked right out of the church. Thanks for you concern, sir, but I am without a doubt worshipping my father in truth every day.

[@garyalley4161]

amen.........if i can say that

[@jonathanhounsome8678]

I clapped when I read your comment!

[@lindahutchens8612]

Holly Morefield I agree with you totally and I go to COC!!

[@robinwaller7482]

Haven't heard? New Covenant! Grace not Law! Spread the News! Jesus is Risen. It's all about him, not us. Jesus didn't die to make sure we don't clap! really! So sad to see churches wasting their time on this.

[@LGministry]

+Robin Waller Notice you said "New covenant" What is a covenant? It is a law because we are under the law of Christ. We have certainly been blessed by God's grace, but His grace is not exclusive the the NT, it can also be found in the O.T. as well. Jesus should be our focus and He told us to worship God in spirit and in truth Jn. 4:24. If we love we will obey His commands Jn. 14:15. Clapping as part of our worship is not authorized, so we should not do it. Pleasing God should be high on our priority list, so don't offer up vain worship. I would recommend you read the following sermon I wrote about grace versus law lgchurchofchrist.com/Law%20verse%20Gracerev.htm

[@jameshaynes6992]

I agree it is wrong to add clapping to singing. One is knowingly or unknowingly imitating instruments in worship. In churches of Christ, I have never seen anyone clap for the preacher. If someone did it, I would feel uncomfortable mainly because I’ve heard people say it’s wrong. Something is not wrong just because it makes us uncomfortable. I would disagree completely with the conclusion one cannot “clap” at a baptism. I sat at the feet of Dave Miller so I left school thinking it was wrong. Clapping shows approval and appreciation. One brother once told me one can only say “Amen!” Huh, where is that at. Different cultures celebrate or rejoice in different ways. Also - I think the slippery slope concept is fear mongering.

[@LGministry]

Thanks for your comment and perspective. Perhaps this article will give you more insight to clapping at a baptism. www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=4802

[@rodnealeigh496]

Is this serious?

[@LGministry]

Rod Nealeigh Yes, it is.

[@robinwaller7482]

+Rod Nealeigh The scary thing is I think it is

[@clevelandlindseyjr4780]

or if someone is getting baptized (my congregation)

[@rodnealeigh496]

How far are you willing to go to be consistent in your interpretation methodology? Song books, microphones, speakers, communion trays, multiple little cups for the fruit of the vine, are they additions or aids in worship? Not mentioned in Scripture, the Bible is silent, not even in Israel's worship in the tabernacle or temple.

[@JimiSurvivor]

Even though members of the Church of Christ say they "are silent when the Bible is silent" many of their beliefs rely on fallacious arguments from silence. They take some positions I agree with, however, they have also adopted legalistic traditions not explicitly stated in scripture. On the other hand, they also prohibit practices that were a part of Old Testament worship even though NT believers took the OT to be an inspired source of both doctrine and practice. If the COC wants to make melody the same way the early Church did then they should reject the use of the tempered scale and sing in the modes like people did in the earliest centuries. Why not also adopt the musical style of the early Christians as does the Eastern Orthodox Church (who also refrain from using musical instruments).

[@LGministry]

I disagree. Also, the command is to sing. It doesn't state what style to sing in, therefore different styles can be used as long as singing takes place. No, this does allow for adding on MI. If you try to cling to the Law of Moses then you fall from grace. We are under a NEW covenant not the OLD and the New.

[@JimiSurvivor]

@@LGministry God never issued a command to the Church to FORBIDDING the playing of musical instruments yet your group has done just that. Your members often say: "where the Bible is silent I will be silent" but here is an instance where the NT says nothing yet you speak loud and clear. Not only do you forbid all instrumental worship but you make this idea into a commandment. ....................................... But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9) ....................................... What this means is they treated their own teachings as COMMANDMENTS of God The problem was God never gave those teachings as commandments just as He never gave the prohibition of instrumental worship as a COMMAND. If He did WHEN did He do so? ....................................... You attempt to get around this by suggesting that playing instrumental music is akin to keeping the Laws of the Mosaic covenant. However, as far as I am aware. God never COMMANDED Israel to play musical instrument. He simply did not PROHIBIT them from doing so. David, who was a musician himself and, with regard to worship, was a man after God's heart had the Levites play instrument. Though this was not a requirement under Levitical law you have made the practice part of keeping the law in order to obtain righteousness. By this crooked road you have arrived that the conclusion that playing music in Church is "falling from grace" ....................................... Not only that but if we look at the scriptures dealing with "falling from grace" we see that it had nothing whatsoever to do with playing music in Church. 3 Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the WHOLE LAW. 4 You who are trying to be JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW have been SEVERED from Christ; you have FALLEN away FROM GRACE. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness Galatians 5:4 ....................................... Christians were said to "fall from grace" when they made REQUIREMENTS under the Old Covenant (such as circumcision) necessary for salvation. Yet playing instruments was never REQUIRED. Also, if Christians who play instrumental worship music have "fallen from grace" then they are no longer saved. This consequence is so dire that you would think God would have forbade the practice in terms that were explicit and emphatic instead of simply NOT MENTIONING IT

[@ronnym1977]

@@JimiSurvivor That old tired childish argument of "Well, the scripture doesn't FORBID it."

[@jganionted]

If that's the case we cant sing thin. Because your voice is an instrument

[@LGministry]

You can sing if you are thin, fat, or somewhere in-between. God names the instrument which is our heart, and we are to teach and admonish each other as we sing. It's pretty easy to see that singing is what we are supposed to do, but using mechanical musical instruments is not.

[@KadesVideoList]

Incrementalism. A deadly truth that is devastating to the church. Spot on, Cougan, with regard to mechanical instruments, clapping, and beat-boxing as acts of worship.

[@LGministry]

Ernie Laurence Jr Thanks for the comment Ernie.

[@padmaraococ7366]

EXCELLENT PRESENTATION TO CONFUSED ONE"S..THANK U BRO IN CHRIST

[@stewbab8784]

there is no confusion......of course it is fine with God to worship Him with expressions of love....instruments, clapping, hands raised, etc......can you clap for your favorite sports team or player, and not clap for the one God ??.....lets get real and use some common sense. God tells us many times that using instruments is perfectly fine.

[@rajeshmandal12vidieobaraba89]

Nice message Mr Collins God bless you for your truth doctrine,

[@LGministry]

You are welcome.

[@leroijr407]

My reply to him. Continue to worship in truth. Dont take on this unlawful practice of no instruments and no clapping. You contradict scripture you present, while contradicting Gods word mister. You are making your own way more important as strict as the Pharisees have. Colossians says to teach one another with (psalms & hymns & spiritual songs). It says after that to sing with grace in your heart, which it showing you how to let it out. You CANT TEACH ONE ANOTHER silently!!! Lets see what the word (psalms) means to the jews in the language it was written. Strong's Number G5568 Original Word ψαλμός Transliterated Word psalmos Phonetic Spelling psal-mos' From G5567; a set piece of music that is a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice harp or other instrument; a "psalm"); collectively the book of the Psalms : - psalm. Compare G5603 . Thayer's Definition a striking, twanging of a striking the chords of a musical instrument of a pious song, a psalm You see? A psalm is music accompanied with an instrument. God does not change. He used a harp for Saul to show that the Holy Spirit world through the instrument. Let me repeat. GOD DOES NOT CHANGE! If Jesus corrected us and said not to use instruments than we would not. But Jesus never did. The book of Colossians 3:16 says to sing psalms & hymns and spiritual songs to TEACH ONE ANOTHER. Can you obey this and teach one another silently with a psalm? I understand some churches may introduce rituals not biblical for worship, but this is NOT ONE OF THEM. You take this and make it your own way, but you are NOT speaking for and of My God of Israel! James 5:13 asks if anyone is afflicted among you....to let them sing psalms. We already identified that in the Greek that the word PSALMS is identified with musical instruments. Now witness my words from God show you in Hebrew what the word PSALMS means. 1 Chronicles 16:7-9 KJVS Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the Lord into the hand of Asaph and his brethren. [8] Give thanks unto the Lord, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people. [9] Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works. Psalms definition in Hebrew is the same as in the Greek used in the new testament. It is used with instruments. Strong's Number H2167 Original Word זמר Transliterated Word zâmar Phonetic Spelling zaw-mar' Parts of Speech Verb Strong's Definition A primitive root (perhaps identical with H2168 through the idea of striking with the fingers); properly to touch the strings or parts of a musical {instrument} that {is} play upon it; to make {music} accompanied by the voice; hence to celebrate in song and music: - give {praise} sing forth {praises} psalms. Brown-Driver-Briggs' Definition to sing, sing praise, make music (Piel) to make music, sing to play a musical instrument My people of Jesus Christ. Worship in spirit and in truth. If the Holy Spirit dwells in the temple of your body, than he will let you know when your out of spirit and truth. For he will let it be known in conviction! This man is twisting scripture with what MEN OF THE WORLD say. More quotes of MEN than explanation of Gods words itself. Understand Gods words first the way they were written. God does not change! This scripture in new testament explains it best. But WHY DID THIS MAN NOT SHOW IT? 🤔 I take you to the book of Romans.... Romans 6:13 KJVS Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS of righteousness unto God. YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS TO GOD?? WHAT DOES (MEMBER) MEAN IN THIS LANGUAGE? Its obvious its talking about your limbs like hands and feet. But I will entertain you.... Members Strong's Number G3196 Original Word μέλος Transliterated Word melos Phonetic Spelling mel'-os Parts of Speech Noun Neuter Strong's Definition Of uncertain affinity; a limb or part of the body: - member. Exactly. A part of the body. Hands....feet. Mouth..tounge. Anything of yourself. Now he says to use this as an instrument. Lets see what instrument meant back then when this was written. Instrument Strong's Number G3696 Original Word ὅπλον Transliterated Word hoplon Phonetic Spelling hop'-lon Parts of Speech Noun Neuter Strong's Definition Probably from the primary word ἕπω hepō(to be busy about); an implement or utensil or tool (literally or figuratively especially offensive for war): - armour instrument weapon. Thayer's Definition any tool or implement for preparing a thing arms used in warfare, weapons an instrument It means a tool used for warfare, and in context with the scripture in Romans is to use your body as an instrument for God righteousness. Singing psalms and hymns to each other to glorify God and also using instruments to drive out DEMONS!! MY GOD DOES NOT Change. YOU sir I rebuke those words of this teaching as biblical and twisting scripture in a way to not worship in spirit and truth. Worship him in spirit and TRUTH! AMEN.

[@junesalyer547]

Are we supposed to look at the jumbo screen or the singing worship leader in church? Are we supposed to wear make up. Are we supposed to wear robes or pants? Can we sit on the pews? Can i talk to a man or woman sitting in a wheelchair in church. Can i talk in church? May i wear jewelry? Some women wear dresses and their legs are exposed. Is that allowed? May I have a mint or gum in church? May I wear perfume. So many things I see in Church of Christ but I don't see where God allowed it in the Bible.

[@LGministry]

These questions can all be answered by understanding the difference between commands, examples, inference, and expediences. I would recommend you watch the following sermon that I preached that will help you understand this principle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqS8aIaaqrKjqcU

[@junesalyer547]

In the church of Christ i attend an elderly man is always interrupting the speaker when he's talking. Is that authorized? I think it's kind of distracting but no one says anything to him. Didnt paul have to cast out a demon in a girl who was interrupting him. And what is this carpeting and strange linoleum in the auditorium? And why are we worshipping in the auditorium? God doesn't authorize that. I've never read in God's word of a new believer being baptized in a person's home which is where God authorized worship to take place. Doesn't God authorize baptism in a lake or river? Sounds wrong to be baptized indoors. Not authorized. And why do some in the church believe in pyramid power and medical marijuana. That's not authorized and seems like idolatry or occult.

[@junesalyer547]

The preacher at my own church is sort of shunning me and my new husband because our exes dumped us for other people. I guess that makes us less worthy to worship in his church. Divorce is not authorized?

[@LGministry]

These questions can all be answered by understanding the difference between commands, examples, inference, and expediences. I would recommend you watch the following sermon that I preached that will help you understand this principle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqS8aIaaqrKjqcU

[@LGministry]

What do you mean, he is shunning you? If both your mates cheated on you two and left, you have no control over that.

[@IAmElko]

Came for clapping, was not dissapointed.

[@robinwaller7482]

I guess of all the problems in all the new testament churches, the apostles forgot to warn against clapping. I glad they never tried it. Straight to Hell

[@LGministry]

+Robin Waller The apostles taught the truth no matter how hard it was to hear. That is what I am doing. BTW they did not have to deal with MI being used in the churches because was unheard of. You only deal with a problem when it comes up not when it does not exist.

[@LivelysReport]

In the Old Testament, who was commanded to play instruments?? Was it not the Levites who were the Priests who offered up to the Lord the praise and worship service for the people?? If it was the Levites who were commanded to play instruments, then can anyone today say, I am a Levite and be able to prove that by geneology from the records which were kept in the temple?? 1Ch 15:16 And David spake to the chief of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers with instruments of musick, psalteries and harps and cymbals, sounding, by lifting up the voice with joy. Neh 7:5 And my God put into mine heart to gather together the nobles, and the rulers, and the people, that they might be reckoned by genealogy. And I found a register of the genealogy of them which came up at the first, and found written therein, Neh 7:64 These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood. Those who wanted to be regarded as Priests because they could not prove their genealogy as being Levite, they were put from the Priesthood.. they could not be a priest.. Now if you go by the OT, and the laws thereof, then it is only those who are Levites who are commanded to play instruments of musick and without proof if their genealogy was of the tribe of Levi from the records which were kept by Genealogy, they were not able to do the work of a Levite priest and were put from the Priesthood.. Now there are a couple of problems with this today. Nobody can prove their genealogy to be a Levite from the tribe of Levi who were the ones who were commanded to take up the instruments.. and even if one says, well I am of the seed of Abraham via being baptized into Christ.. ok fine, but that would make you of the tribe of Judah as Jesus was of the tribe of Judah.. not Levi.. And the second problem is, the NT makes us all Priests, and having a Royal Priesthood by which we all offer up "spiritual sacrifices" unto God... 1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. And I will leave it there..

[@jasongibson3496]

I miss the Hymns that grew up with , but I will never be a member of the Church of Christ ever again. I grew up in the Church of Christ and my generation disowned me for listening to Bill and Gloria Gaither and Sandi Patty. So, I had no friends in the Church of Christ. Now, I attend the MCC a gay church that talks about love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness. The Church of Christ I grew up with spread hate and not teaching God's love. Sometimes, when I can not go to Atlanta, I attend the local Church of God. I do not think it is a sin to listen to Bill and Gloria or Sandi Patty. I am getting more healthy after leaving the church of Christ. I have a lot of late 1990's and 2000's Bill and Gloria Gaither Home Coming videos and I feel like I am worshiping Jesus. Jesus is and has always been about love. My former Church of Christ spread hate. I never attend a Church of Christ that spreads hate.

[@LGministry]

No one should be spreading hate. I certainly don't. However, if you mean that preaching what the Bible teaches is hate, then that is another matter. I talk about love, grace, mercy and forgiveness, but I also talk about the other things people don't like to hear. I try my best to preach all of God's Word not just the parts people like.

[@lindahutchens8612]

Jason Gibson I am so sorry you went to a church of Christ that spread hate; not all are like this. I pray you will try another church of Christ; they are not all alike.

[@christinesmith3462]

sorry I disagree hand clapping does not equate a drum

[@LGministry]

M Smith You can disagree all you want to, but it will not change the fact that hand clapping rhythmatically with song makes it a percussion instrument, which is no different than beating on a drum.

[@christinesmith3462]

You are reaching for sure.

[@christinesmith3462]

I am a member of the church. You probably don't like Keith Lancaster either because his music sounds like musical instruments?

[@LGministry]

M Smith You are entitled to your opinion, but I will patiently wait for your proof that I am reaching. Do you even think it wrong to use Musical Instruments with worship? If not, then hand clapping certainly will not be a problem for your. However, if you agree that Musical Instruments should not be used for worship, then you are going have a hard time justifying hand clapping and showing that is not being used as a MI.

[@LGministry]

M Smith Never heard of him, but as you know I am opposed to the use of any form of MI being used with songs that we sing to the Lord because I want to give God what He commanded us to do. If He wanted me to use MI, He would have commanded me to use them like He did in the OT. Personally, I love the sound of MI and they are certainly good at stirring up the emotions of people. In fact, that is one the techniques the Pentecostal church use to get people stirred up before they tell them to come forward to receive their alleged healing. I know because I went to one of these services and then questioned the people afterwards that came for a healing and none of them felt like they had been healed especially not the man in the wheelchair they tried to get to stand up, but he could not. Now you laugh it off and think that hand clapping and other little details are not that important, but when I study my Bible, I see example after example of how God is concerned about the details. Just ask Moses who struck the rock instead of speaking to it. Just ask Saul who did not kill everyone like He was supposed to. Just ask Ananias and Sapphira who just told little lie. The list could go on and on.

[@davidvarner9521]

Interesting. Your Wikipedia quote needs a source. Clapping is not unscriptural. If you are using it to the beat of music, thats unscriptural. Overton Faubus chairman of the Business Department at ACU and an elder at Hillcrest for many years, said if you play with a rattlesnake yoj are likely to get bit

[@cdad111]

I believe that decisions such as hand clapping should be a personal choice. While I agree that we were commanded to make a joyful noise unto the lord, if the decision to clap comes from the heart it should be okay. It matters not what it sounds like when you sing, even if you make a beat with it. We are not commanded to to use individual cups during communion, to have tables that say this do in remembrance of me, to have pews with crosses carved into them, carpet on pews and seats and the list goes on. We were not commanded to clap, nor were we commanded to not clap. While it is great to debate such topics, it is wrong to speak where the bible doesn't speak.

[@LGministry]

Where would you draw the line on personal choice, and what Scripture would you base that on? The Word of God is easy to understand in knowing what God wants, His Word says sing, and you cannot argue with that. Don't you think that God knows what He wants? What you need to do is find where God's Word authorizes us to use musical instruments or hand clapping, etc under the new covenant. We cannot use the silence of Scripture to authorize anything. If we do, then anything not specifically mentioned in Scripture can be done with God's approval. Are you wiling to say that we can do anything not specifically found in Scripture? THe examples you gave about individual cups, tables, pews, carpet, are all expediences and not additions, and they fall under the command to assemble. We can assemble anywhere including in a building. The table is just a place to set the trays until they are served, it could be set on the floor as well, but it would not be convenient for older people to bend over to pick them up. The Lord's Supper is about partaking of the bread and the wine in remembrance of Jesus. The fruit of the vine is what partake of not the cup itself. So, we could drink it out of one cup or multiple cups, it could be drunk from glass or plastic, those are incidentals what is important is the fruit of the vine and the bread not the containers. Having carpet, song books, pews all fall under having a place to assemble and to help have a service that is done in decently order. None the things you mentioned are additions nor is the song book because it does not take away from the command to sing. One does worship God with a song book. However, adding MI or HC is making a noise rhythmically with the singing, which is adding something to the singing, which is playing. Regardless of how right you think your heart is it will never make something acceptable to God when He has not commanded it or approved of it. Saul thought He was doing the right think when he tried to destroy the church, but he found he was as wrong as he could be. So, let's give God what He commanded and not add what we want to add or what makes us feel more spiritual. If you are interested in learning some things you may have never heard of before, I invite you to watch my latest video in which I answer the question of how we can know what is binding. Thanks for you comment. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqS8aIaaqrKjqcU

[@robinwaller7482]

+Cougan Collins I am his dearly loved child. I am righteous because he is . It is a free gift. Grace is everything Jesus. Grace lives because he lives, works because he works, matters because he matters. To be saved by Grace is to be saved by him. Not by an idea, doctrine , creed, or church membership, but by Jesus himself, who will sweep into heaven anyone who so much as gives him the nod. Rest from your worrying. Trust in the one who will carry you home. He loves you. Stop trying to impress him with what you do and be impressed by what he did.

[@lindahutchens8612]

This handclapping stuff is too much, We need sermons on loving one another, getting to know our brother and sisters in Christ so they will not fall away and most important of all seek and save the lost. Satan wins if we are not doing this.

[@TruthHurts225]

If you gotta question it....just dont do it ...Better safe than sorry right??

[@jthuff5102]

I will agree with you though. If intruments are forbidden than so is hand clapping and all the other things you mentioned. But since God commands them psalms to be used in the new and old covenant ephesians 5 19 . . . your just making stuff up!

[@LGministry]

This is an extremely weak argument. Just in case you missed it my other response, the following book will prove the proper usage of Psalms and other associated words don't mean what you think they mean in the N.T. apologeticspress.org/pdfs/e-books_pdf/InstrumentalMusic.pdf

[@HealthWealthRelationships700]

Your lesson is interesting. However let's separate beat box noises and clapping. The two do not always go together. Let's also remove all the quotations from men. Jesus in Mark 7:7 was not pleased with the doctrine of men versus the word of God. Now what if clapping was not to being used at an instrument, but as an expression of joy. No different than smiling or laughing. Everyone who claps is not trying to immulate a instrument. Even babies clap with joy, having never been taught to do so. Churches of Christ are shrinking, because even the smallest amount of joy in worship is being squeezed out without Bible authority. The good news is joyful. And there is absolutely nothing in the New Testament that prohibits anyone from expressing their joy by clapping their hands.

[@LGministry]

+Brian Mahoney Personally, I find great joy in worshipping God. Clapping is much different than smiling or laughing. You need take your argument to it bitter end. If it is the case that we can express our joy in worship in way not authorized in Scripture, then there is no limit to how we could express our joy. Perhaps our way is running around the building or maybe taking off our clothes. Do you see the problem with your argument? For further study I recommend the following link www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=4802

[@HealthWealthRelationships700]

+Cougan Collins Had I suggested taking off clothes or running around a building I could see your point. However I am not talking about that or beat box sounds. Those actions are either evil or give the appearance of evil. Let's stick to hand clapping and Our authority. The word of God. You can not find 1 single scripture that says hand clapping is unacceptable to God. I can find several that say an expression of Joy is acceptable. "Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:" 1 Peter 1:8 A spiritually immature congregation can let hand clapping lead to musical instruments. That is why God authorized Elders. If Elders see fit so be it. But it is not spiritually binding on Other Congregations, who know the difference. I can use my hands to shake and greet you, or I can use them as a weapon. The intent is my decision. It is the same with worship. God said the greet one another with a Holy kiss not a hand shake. Yet we shake hands every Sunday. Because of our culture. Absolutely no Bible authority to greet with a hand shake. Hand clapping is a part of our culture and is not deemed evil or immoral by anyone.

[@LGministry]

+Brian Mahoney Brian you are asking the wrong question. The question should be, where does the Bible authorize clapping your hands as part of worship or an expression of joy during worship? You need to apply your logic to other things, so it might help you see why you logic is flawed. You see, you want to base things on intent. If that is the case, using your argument I could say, we use MI as an expression of our joy not for worship, therefore it is acceptable. I could give you more examples, but hopefully you can see why your intent argument will not work. Regarding the Holy Kiss, if you will notice the focus is on greeting one another, a Holy Kiss is one way to do that, in which men kissed men and women women, but any kind of greeting would work, including shaking hands.

[@vernonsteinkamp1088]

I was raised in the CofC and this is one reason why I left. This stuff is ridiculous. CofC gets hung up on music, one cup (Lords Supper), and the list goes on. I do admit that music in the church does get out of hand, mimicking modern culture.

[@LGministry]

When is it every ridiculous to love God so much that you want to everything you can in your power to do things His way and not my way? I am not hung up on music at all. I have no problem with musical instruments being used at appropriate times outside of worship. Vernon, NO WHERE in the NT are we told to use MI/hand clapping, nor is their ONE SINGLE example of them being used as part of our worship to God. They were commanded to be used in the OT 2 Chron. 29:25, but we are commanded to sing Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16. Think about how things changed from the OT to the NT. Under the OT there were a lot of physical rituals that people had to do, but under the NT many things are spiritual in nature and is more focused on the heart. So, it should be easy for you to see that God want our singing to come from our hearts with the use of a lifeless physical musical instrument. I do not know if you know this or not, but under the OT, those who played MI did not use them in the temple, they used them outside the temple. So, even if you wanted to follow the pattern of the OT, it still would not allow the instruments to be played in the temple/church, it would have to be on the outside.

[@amyb5625]

Not all congregations get hung up on all that. Some are going through a much needed transition. Where I attend, we teach not to put restrictions where there are no restrictions placed. Sometimes our comfort zones must be pushed to reach the lost. Most of the time our comfort zones are made out of traditions. If you place restrictions on people telling them how they may or may not worship when you don't have concrete biblical proof that says in black and white what to do or not to do, people will hate you and you quite possibly may make them not want any part of God. Remember what He said "if any one of you cause these little ones to stumble"? Where I attend, we teach strictly the Bible, but with an open mind. Yes, we worship in an assembly, but worship is such a personal thing. We teach what he says to do, but we let people themselves decide what is right and its between them and God. He will take one clapper whose heart is right with him any day over a non clapper who's heart isn't, but guess what...He loves and wants them both.

[@vernonsteinkamp1088]

The Bible does not tell us to build a church building. God did not instruct us on that, just as He did not on many other things. I believe it is because they are too trivial to the main point of Christianity.

[@LGministry]

Beloved There has to be balance. One cannot just teach the truth and then just let everyone do what they FEEL is right. I completely agree that we should never bind anything not found in Scripture, but that does not mean things specifically mentioned in Scripture. For example. We are COMMANDED to sing and make melody is be IN THE HEART. No matter how hard one tries, they cannot break Scripture. It tells us specifically how we are to sing and that the heart is the instrument. This excludes any other way. Besides this, NO INSTRUMENT can teach, admonish or sing. If you agree that MI cannot be used as part of our worship, then you should be able to see to see that clapping your hands to the beat of the song is NO DIFFERENT than betting on a drum. If you can claim that clapping your hands is just used for keeping time and not for worship, then logically you have to say the same thing about MI. I suspect most of you who have no problem with clapping have no problem with MI being used anyways, but let's say that you are opposed to the use of MI being used as part of our worship. If that is true, then you are constantly going to have to remind your people that if they clap or if they use a MI, they have to do it with intent of keeping time of the singing otherwise it would be a sin because adding instrument as part of our worship to God would be wrong. Basically, you would be tempting people to sin against God every service especial those who visit whose background is using MI as part of their worship to God. Do you see what kind of mess you open up for yourself by trying to say that clapping your hands with the beat of the music if just fine as long as it is done with the intent of keeping time. While you may never agree with what I am saying, it is hard to go against pure logic. If you ask people why they clap while they sing without it be prefaced of why you are asking, I think you would be really lucky to hear anyone say, "so, we can keep time." For me, clapping is a black and white issue because there is NO DIFFERENCE between a church a clapping to the beat of the song and beating on a drum. If they want to keep time there are many ways that can be done in a silent way, which can be done by one man who leads the church in song. Many song leaders will use one hand and move it up and down to keep everyone on time and it does not require some audio sound like clapping and certainly does not require the whole assembly to clap. Finally, while you can try and say that people simply clap to keep time of the song, I think you know that is not true. Most clap because they like it because they think it makes the song service better. To try and argue that is just to keep the beat is a straw man argument plain and simple.

[@LGministry]

Vernon Steinkamp Vernon, we do not have to have a church building. The people are the church. However, we are commanded to assemble. This is a generic command just like we are told to go into the world. Now, we could fly, walk, ride, or even use the internet to go. The same thing is true with assembling. We could assemble at your house, the park, or we could have a central location such as a building. When you think about it, a church building is nothing more than a big house that is owned by the church. So, there is authorization for having a church building, but when it comes to Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, there is no generic command found there that would allow you to sing songs to God and to those around you anyway you want to because these verses are VERY specific. We are SING and the INSTRUMENT IS TO BE OUR HEARTS. Our singing is be sung with UNDERSTANDING, AND IT IS TO TEACH AND ADMONISH. One cannot add a musical instrument to this any more than you can add things to the Lord's Supper. See the difference?