The Question I Was Actually Asking

[@TierZoo]

I think there definitely are things we'd be better off not knowing.

[@anarchogarfieldist1652]

You must be as into this dude as I am, guy. Yours is one of the few channels I actively look forward to watching; keep up the good sauce.

[@icon4000]

Ditto. and the one that just came out is awesome :)

[@tezzeret2000]

I said it on the last video, and I'll say it again: just because something is predictable does not make it any less meaningful. The Sun rises every morning, and it is almost BECAUSE of its predictability that we find it so meaningful. Eclipses, aging, summer: we find great meaning in predictable events. The Sun is not responsible for rising every morning, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be thankful every day that it does. Being > will.

[@kieran163]

this is really great, thank you for your addition to hank’s ideas!

[@leaffinite2001]

Its strange to me the "meaning" is cared about so much. Its no less subjective or personally than beauty

[@StraveTube]

Speaking in April 2024: I can confirm that an eclipse's predictability does not make it any less meaningful of an experience to me.

[@sylviaodhner]

I think there are aspects of determinism that can be useful for how we look at the world. For instance, we want people to be held responsible for their actions, but we also know that people can be influenced to do bad things because of things that have happened to them in the past. And we can learn from that that if we treat people a certain way, people will be less likely to do bad things in the future. I think of us as acting out of free will but I also know that we are influenced by all kinds of things that are out of our control. So I think the most useful perspective is a balance between "nothing we choose makes any difference" and "everyone is 100% in control of everything they do."

[@connierobinson1090]

I 100% agree with this. I like it when we think about improvement rather than absolutes, and I really like it when we view wrongdoers with empathy.

[@qkisninja]

I agree, and that means that if either free will or determinism is entirely true all of the time it would not be beneficial for me to believe it. It is best to change our beliefs, or at least how literally we take our beliefs, based on justice and compassion. I have watched good, loving, admirable people do nasty things to each other based on their strong affiliation on one side or the other side of this issue. My Mother, a devout Christian and proponent of free will, is a kind, nurturing, and devoted woman but lacks empathy for people she thinks got what they deserved based on their actions. She definitely doesn't relish the thought of people failing, but she rarely leaves room for anything beyond their own actions leading to their demise. For instance, she rarely takes my sister's mental illness into account when assessing her behavior and taking offense. That position has seriously damaged their relationship over the last several years to the point that my sister avoids coming home for holidays anymore. Believing in determinism would make my Mother more compassionate. On the other end of the spectrum, my ex boyfriend, who was a staunch atheist until more recently, insists determinism is the only logical answer. He is an exceedingly intelligent, considerate, and gentle person, but about a year ago, he sexually assaulted me. He felt awful about it, apologized profusely, and hated himself for being predetermined to do it. We broke up on really good terms a few months ago and remained strong friends, but last week we had a discussion about free will versus determinism and the night he assaulted me. He was in a pretty bad head space so I was trying to be inspiring and convince him that he wasn't like that anymore, it was in the past, he could choose to be better, ect. He nearly did it again partly due to the headspace and, I suspect, partly to prove me wrong. Believing in free will would make him more just. Believing in either extreme, free will or determinism, doesn't do anyone any good if you bring either one to its logical conclusion. Fortunately, people are free from being entirely logical or entirely illogical. Just like with anything else, extremes are bad. Eating too much is just as harmful as eating too little. Taking too much medication is just as harmful as taking too little medication. Having too much fun is just as harmful as having too little fun. Having too much logic is just as harmful as having too little logic. And knowing too much is just as harmful as knowing too little. Believing in some determinism and some free will is what allows me to fight for justice, but still have compassion. If that means I have to blind myself to reality so be it.

[@wschippr1]

Sylvia Odhner Well we know for sure that we do not have a 100% control over our actions. This is something psychology figured out a long time ago.

[@lilyenpointe7448]

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[@pendlera2959]

It's also important to consider when regulating things like advertising or police interrogations.

[@jagrubster]

Me getting back from the gym: Time for another hankschannel video Hank: I just got back from the gym Me: 😦

[@wobblysauce]

+

[@WhySoSquid]

Unrelated to the video content, but would someone kindly explain this business to a n00b: +

[@DefyingEternity]

Here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpXXq5mrbrejitU. It's a thing Hank came up with a couple of years ago.

[@heinz091]

+

[@heather23renae]

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[@Jedran275]

Hank I love your humility, I didnt intend to be part of a voice that hurt your feelings. I tried to temper my words behind rationality, but I probably came on way too strong. It just really throws ME personally for a loop when I consider whether I am the thing making my choices. I think you make a great point to ask whether it really matters if we knew 100% one way or another. Because in the end if we just suddenly did know, we would have far more chaos. I agree that its far better to say "I dunno" than to assume we, as terribly flawed human people could ever know if the choices we make are our own. Sorry again, my dude, you have my utmost respect. This channel is still new to me and really helps ground this celebrity status I have of you in my head. To Hank and everyone else, I love you and DFTBA.

[@qwertyuiopaaaaaaa7]

Reference, CPG Grey: “Necessary lies we tell society”

[@wellwithmeri8222]

Grimm wild Tim?

[@repker]

never seen a tim so far out from their normal breeding zone

[@rfldss89]

Kev I mean, hank's an educational KZbinr, as is cgp grey. Not unexpected to see a Tim run around these parts of KZbin.

[@PapaJefeYT]

Can confirm, am also a Tim. I watch\listen ead CGP Grey and Hank\John's channels... and Kurzgesagt... and WaitButWhy... and Vsauce... and Veritasium... and exurb1a... and nerdwriter... and PBS Digital Studios... and SmarterEveryDay. I've even been on a Joe Rogan kick lately dude... Tims are a wild and free folk.

[@qwertyuiopaaaaaaa7]

Jeffery James **Veristablium

[@MCRogueHaven]

Shouting up to Hank: I'VE REALLY BEEN ENJOYING SEEING MORE UPLOADS ON THIS CHANNEL! Also, Have you seen Kurzgesagt's video on Optimistic Nihilism? I find it oddly comforting.

[@mlemleh]

MCRogueHaven +

[@Craznar]

Money isn't real - but it has enough illusion of reality to be very useful. Free will is the same, might not be real - but it has enough illusion of reality to be very useful. PS: Before you say it, money isn't real - currency (used to represent it) is.

[@aghastmeerkat9753]

Everything is a social construct and maybe that’s okay??

[@jaredsmith7258]

Money is absolutely real, it is the supra natural manifestation of life reified and equivalent to all transactionally measurable value.

[@NocturnalNick]

Everything is not a social construct.

[@sparksbet]

Being a social construct =/= not real. Money is a social construct, that does not mean it isn't real. I agree though; something not being real doesn't mean it doesn't matter or affect us.

[@Alverant]

If money is real then show me a molecule of it. Describe its fundamental particle.

[@joeheiman9654]

Oh and also on a personal note I wanted to say you and your brother really mean allot to me. Until you published your video on do I have ADHD, and John's video on OCD I never considered getting treatment for my combined OCD/ADHD. You, and him personally have changed my life. Your awesome keep up the good work🤗😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[@Improbabilities]

If we knew for sure that free will didn't exist, I think the case for rehabilitation of criminals gets a lot stronger. If people are just reacting predictably to their environment, then crimes are a consequence of the situation the criminal was put in. Criminal corrections would be exactly what it sounds like: an attempt to adjust someones behavior away from their criminal tendencies. If their behavior can be altered through rehabilitation therapy, they should be free to resume their life. After all, they didn't choose to commit a crime, so there is no bad choice to punish. Just laying down punishment for crime seems like an attack on the way someone is, if they can't choose for themselves. Long term prison sentences would make more sense as a last resort for people who don't respond to the rehabilitation therapy. If someone is a big danger to others, keeping them away from other people might be the best option for society, even though it basically means punishing that someone for existing.

[@GageTakesTheCake]

You might be interested in a Ted Talk called The Dark Side of Free Will. Title aside, the talk isn't about whether or not free will exists, but is about the *possible* social benefits of being skeptical of free will. I think it answers some of your questions in the second half of the video, and why determinism actually points to healthy prison system reform. Here's the link, I'd love to know what you think, if you have the time. Thanks!

[@GageTakesTheCake]

Here's a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJeyfqSbndFgkKM

[@celinak5062]

Gage Smith +

[@Kelly_Z]

Gage Smith +

[@emmaknijn1120]

To me, knowing there is (almost) no free will helps me to have more compassion for others. Ultimately the struggle they are experiencing is a consequence of the inescapable past circumstances they were in or the choices they made as a logic response. I can understand people more easy when I take that in mind. So sometimes it can even help me :)

[@Xidnaf]

Sense humans seem to intrinsically like knowing things, this seems kind of tied in with the question of "when is it ok to do a bad thing to make a good thing happen"

[@anya6785]

I think the question of knowledge being necessary is similar to the question “Do you want to know when you’re going to die” which most people respond to with a resounding “NO” Sometimes having certain knowledge can hurt you, which is a hard thing to deal with

[@only20frickinletters]

Another example of something which would be better not to know is whether there are real differences in intelligence (whatever that means) between groups of people.

[@mermaidismyname]

see that's something I would personally answer with a yes. having spent a lot of time around grieving people I know knowing about an upcoming death vs. not is painful either way but I think knowing about death allows you to plan for it better.

[@ObjectsInMotion]

I would kill someone and live the rest of my life in prison just to know when I will die. I cannot understand people who say No.

[@drakereynolds390]

I dont want to know when. I want to know if.

[@allanolley4874]

You can get a lot less grim and point out things that are not merely not worse knowing but probably make you worse off. Like how many grains of sand are on this beach, stopping and counting them all would not only be futile but all the truth you would gain from this would clearly just make your life worse (given the way you acquire knowledge as a finite being etc.). Also there could just be knowledge that is inherently harmful, like a number so big that thinking of it would kill you, a killion. We are all better off avoiding knowing killions. Hank's idea of an idea about how human behaviour/thinking works that would disarrange our thinking/behaviour would just be another example of this.

[@pinkysaurusrawr]

I honestly don't understand why people care so much about this. To me, it seems impossible to know whether or not we have free will. And, even if we don't, we're obviously not going to act any differently. Like Hank said, "I guess anarchy then?" Isn't gonna happen, we are always going to act as if we have free will. SO WHO CARES I do love the question about whether there's knowledge we maybe shouldn't have. I can't know, because I don't know everything, so I don't know if my life would be worse if I did. But I WANT to know everything. I like the idea of knowing whether or not we have free will. But, I'm atheist. And I feel like my reasons for not being concerned about not having free will are the same as my reasons for not caring if there's an afterlife or if there is an ordained purpose to my life. It doesn't affect the way I live. I am always going to act and think in a way that reflects my values, and I don't think not having free will changes that. signed, an extremely intellectually curious person who just finds the free will question to be a waste of time

[@illyriawashburne]

PinkysaurusRawr I think "I guess anarchy then" is a little disingenuous. Obviously not anarchy then cuz, um, that's not what is happening so this society was obviously predetermined and humanity as a whole has figured out that even if we have no free will, we kind of have the responsibility to pursue happiness for ourselves and others anyway. And the best way to do that is too discourage negative action and encourage positive action. Societal pressure does have an impact of your brain's thought process, whether or not you have a will capable of altering that thought process is irrelevant.

[@elinobenjamin_val]

Wait you literally missed the point of this follow-up video

[@SECONDQUEST]

PinkysaurusRawr Just because you can't know something for sure doesn't mean that it can't be fun to talk about and think about. Straight up, if you can't understand that then you should take a good look at yourself.

[@SECONDQUEST]

Elino Villegas Yeah he did

[@hollynesbitt8173]

To be honest, it's more interesting from a mental health viewpoint, in relation to how mental illness can affect out conscious mind's ability to make free decisions. It's the old 'am I always the captain of my own ship?' question.

[@AnalogWinter]

I think knowing that I didn't have free will would lead me to have an extreme version of learned helplessness. If I thought my entire existence we pre-determined, I wouldn't find any need to fight against that which I had no ability to impact.

[@GageTakesTheCake]

AnalogWinter You can still impact things. If you start a political revolution, that's still a big and legitimate impact on the world. You just didn't do it freely.

[@JoshuaHillerup]

AnalogWinter I think you're thinking about this the wrong way. If you rejected free will for being an incoherent idea, there are still decisions, but you can examine those decisions in detail and possibly with something approaching objectively, instead of treating it as a magical inscrutable process.

[@GageTakesTheCake]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by impact. Either way, you can still be driven to make changes, you just didn't truly choose to change, you were driven to by external and internal forces. Either way, it manifests exactly the same. It would feel just as free to you.

[@GageTakesTheCake]

It's like, looking at the world through a systemic, sociological lens as opposed to a more liberal understanding of free will

[@JoshuaHillerup]

Gage Smith sure, you still chose it. It just means you choose something because you had reasons to do so, instead of because of a metaphorical die roll.

[@OliverHatched]

I used to think that truth was the only perspective that mattered. It was binary to me; there was only fact and fiction. But in reality, there's so much more in between. I was only able to come to this realization after a year of intensive group therapy for 9 hours a week. Everyone has their own truths. And honestly, being mentally healthy and happy is way more important than being right.

[@LevviTalk]

Sarah Acree preach

[@roceb5009]

I would submit that the truth still matters, it's just that the more sure you are that you know what the truth is, the more open you should be to arguments that disagree with that truth, and embrace the possibility that you are wrong. Because the things that matter the most tend to be the most complex.

[@allanolley4874]

Well as long as the only truths are not our own truths. Otherwise it won''t be true for everyone that everyone has their own truths.

[@izzikat9252]

Perception and truth have a very strange relationship when you realize how easily our senses and sensibilities can direct our attention. For a concrete example, try living just one day without one of the senses you usually rely on. Blindfolded if you're used to sight, earplugs if you're used to hearing, or socks on your hands if you are somehow navigating this world without both sight/sound. Even after a few hours, the very shape of your reality and thoughts will shift DRASTICALLY. Extrapolate this logic to lifetimes of chemical and experiential differences between other humans and entities in this world and you begin to have an idea of how easily "truth" becomes a verrry abstract communication attempt because our reference points must be established on so many foundational assumptions to have the same meaning. Our ability to communicate is still mind bogglingly rudimentary.

[@ytfsic]

I'm glad to hear someone else thinking these things. Your voice is appreciated!

[@alicedubois1348]

I am watching this at 6 am while drinking my first cup of coffee, and looking after my toddlers. I most definitely feel very enlightened at this moment. Like a part of my brain woke up....

[@trombonegamer14]

I am a determinist when trying to understand why people ended up doing what they did and being what they were. I am an existentialist when attempting to live a better life for myself. And lastly, when I can't move on fro. a terrible decision I made in the past, can't get rid of the guilt and pain, I attempt to revert to deteeminism. They are both useful ideas to consider. It isn't about finding The Truth but thinking about ideas that you can use in life.

[@loganm1586]

I actually really do love this question. It is really sweet, and brings up a rather old discussion about the limits of human consciousness. There is an old question about assumptions in philosophy that basically has to just be ignored. This question is basically about whether logic is actually real or not. There are tons of reasons and arguments (ironically ones based on logic) that lead to conclusion that logic is simply a result of how human brains process information and therefore limited to human experience of the world not actually what the world is. Its the basis for most Christian creeds feeling the importance on "mystery" as well as modern philosophical question. However, the vast majority of the time we have to just ignore it. Like we cannot possibly understand more than we are physically capable of understanding so who cares if logic is limited to our physical senses, we still can use it to find cool and interesting things out about our world.

[@danniruthvan3265]

I agree with you, Hank. Ultimately, it’s a question whose answer would have no meaning. If it’s true, you can’t make a free choice about whether you’re going to believe it or not. You were inevitably going to think what you think. If it’s false, then whether you believe it or not is up to you. Arguing about free will doesn’t get us much of anywhere.

[@bebanacabana]

Even if all my choices are predetermined, I don't know what they are until I make them. Whether I read every word in a novel or skip to the last page doesn't change how the story will end, but it will change how I feel about it.

[@JonesNoahT]

Knowing truth is pretty well built directly into my “goodness” function as a positive.

[@LevviTalk]

I couldn't have put it better: "I don't care". That's it. Thanks.

[@jynxkizs]

I think determinism is like the skeleton underneath our choices. There's a predisposed rigidity that both limits and empowers us. There clearly is a lot of adaptability to the human mind too. Yet humans have some control over what environments they experience on a regular basis, especially as an adult. Twins raised apart end up more similar than their step siblings that they were raised with. Predictability sorta does and doesn't imply determinism because people can make long term choices, especially if they are predisposed to making and sticking to long term choices.

[@robertbaillargeon3683]

My lived experience feels totally free and un-determined, and whether or not that feeling is due to the universe being predetermined to make me feel that way is a question that I'm not particularly interested in looking into. Pretty sure I'm just rewording Hank's opinion here.

[@mlemleh]

Robert Baillargeon Yes, but it’s a good rewording. Of course the question then becomes: Is the lack of wanting to disprove this theory (or lived experience) of free will just a willingness to live in ignorant bliss? Can we really consider ourselves scientists if we are unwilling to test this hypothesis? I think there are a lot of things I’d rather not know (like the exact time date and manner of my death).

[@wschippr1]

Robert Baillargeon I disagree to an extent. I feel like I have made some choices, but as I have a mood disorder there is definite moments where I was doing something and as I was doing I knew I shouldn't be doing it.

[@redboot3911]

This. This is a good video. Any video that makes me pause and think about the definition of life and why we do anything is a great one. Especially one that presents questions and considers them. Good work, Hank! You’re doing something :)

[@lorenabpv]

as someone whose entire life is being overwhelmed by possible scenarios of every decision (hello, anxiety), i find it odd that people are like "maybe i don't have free will". i sometimes point out to my friends that my mental illness makes me a huge narcissist, because i tend to think that every thought and decision i have comes with great consequences, even if it does not

[@spidervenomkilljoy]

You are absolutely right. Ultimately we, as human beings, want to be happy while also avoiding pain and uncertainty. I think when we choose to ignore certain questions such as the existence of free will we are doing so because we don't want to ruin our sense of agency. We are (supposedly) intelligent beings so we look for things that won't hurt us or make us feel powerless (as the notion that we are being controlled by our circumstances usually does). I believe I have free will because I get to wake up in the morning and decide whether I want to get up or stay in bed and I can also choose whether I want to watch this video or ignore it, and I haven't so to me that's free will. If I am being controlled that doesn't really affect my sense of self because I still believe that I have the power to choose what to do and to me that also seems to be more important than living as though I have no control over anything that happens in my life. If we were to live as if we didn't have to make our own choices we wouldn't know what being responsible or trustworthy is because those things come with the knowledge that we will be able to act in a certain way when needed. So yeah, I agree that we are better off believing in our free will to be whoever we want to be.

[@genessab]

Oh there we go. Hank on hankschannel.

[@lusewa4939]

he looks sweaty

[@tass466]

The thing I've never understood about this is defining free will by randomness. The idea of my choice being random seems like the opposite of me freely choosing it. But I agree, Hank's question here is ultimately more interesting.

[@bubblesrkw414]

I appreciate the way this video is looking into how you think. I think all knowledge isn't always good. My husband refuses to get tested to see if he is at risk for Alzheimer's disease (which runs thick in his family) because he doesn't want it to change how he is now.

[@jrgenchristensen7240]

You do so much good Hank. I appreciate you.

[@ash-bob3398]

Rule number one for allowing myself to communicate on the internet: would I say this to a friend who had this opinion/point of view/idea? It helps me to remember to be a human online.

[@andreajohnson6968]

"Is all knowledge necessary?" I love it. Good question.

[@KristenNicoleYT]

As long as we feel like we are making decisions, we may as well be making decisions, regardless of if we actually are.

[@pirateking0330]

I think there I times where I could feel it comforting if everything is predetermined. Most of the time I feel like, "life is hard, but if I'm unhappy with that I can change it" But sometimes it's nice to feel like, "the world sucks, it's not my fault, and I'm not responsible to fix it"

[@annemcrowell]

I found this really interesting as I'm currently in the planning stages of writing a story that explores similar themes. It's like you knew this was on my mind the past few days, Hank!

[@bexceli]

These two videos really resonated with me Hank. I study physics so I am very interested in finding out How Things Are but philosophical questions like this are often ones that I’d rather be intentionally ignorant of for my own peace of mind, and because I personally don’t find them to be very useful questions

[@the-logic-of-the-rainbow]

Of course I have free-will, I have no other choice.

[@Nhoj31neirbo47]

I believe some things may remain ‘mysteries’ to an individual unless and until that person is equipped to deal with them. This is manifested in society by differing belief systems.

[@coylittlefish]

I enjoy thinking i dont have free will. It helps me forgive other people and myself. It also helps me relax sometimes if i can believe the future is mapped out.

[@Falcrist]

I like how Hitchens put it: *_Of course we have free will. We have not choice but to._* It's flippant, but also surprisingly insightful.

[@jamesbuchanan1913]

My favorite bit of the philosophy is that we are morally responsible BECAUSE we don't have free will. It's because our decisions are determined by our reasons that we are responsible. If someone is capable of making decisions for no reasons or despite their best reasons, we consider them insane and not hold them morally responsible. So my view from taking courses on the subject is we do have moral responsibility, our decisions are determined, and "free will" is one of those silly naive notions we should shed. You're choice is free if it's free of external coercion like totalitarian states or drugs, an idea of internal coercion from the laws of physics or your natural neurotransmitters doesn't make much sense. To your larger point, is all knowledge good, I can't give you a full answer. But I think in this case understanding the moral responsibility requires determinism gives you a more nuanced view on practical issues. For example, should we allow emotionally manipulative advertising (e.g. Mama's got the magic of Clorox). If you naively believe in free will than advertising doesn't matter, people can do what they want. But if you believe like me that both Determinism and Moral Responsibility hold, not only can we see how the advertising is coercive, but we can punish the people for choosing to make it even tho that choice falls under the laws of physics. Understanding the compatibility between the deterministic physical universe and human choice and responsibility is extremely important. I wish more politicians and policy makers understood it.

[@roceb5009]

James Buchanan + this should be the topic comment.

[@jilliand13jd]

I just wanted to say thank you for making more content lately Hank! so many of my favourite youtubers have decreased the amount of content they put on this platform, and while I understand why its really disheartening to see, so to get more content then normal from you feels like a true gift so thank you Hank very much for continuing to create! It brings me and many others a tremendous amount of joy!

[@garryslocombe]

Great topic, Hank. I think you are right on the money, except for one thing - You reach the sensible conclusion that realising there is no freewill, doesn't affect the need to make decisions. However, choosing to continue to make decisions is not ignoring that knowledge, it just means that you understand it. Ignoring It appears to be intelligent because, having come to the light bulb moment, nothing has changed - you still have to act as if freewill is real. So we don't need the knowledge in the first place. Whilst that may be generally true, it isn't in one very important way that is likely to have a positive impact on your future decisions. A corollary of the deterministic understanding of freewill is the realisation that your decisions are deterministically chosen by the deterministic path your life has taken and that those that have taken a different path (everyone else) will deterministically make different decisions. The result is that you will tend to be more humble about your own decisions and more accepting, and perhaps curious, of other people's decisions. It might even make you curious about how the seemingly random path of your own life has influenced your own decisions. I have often pondered the question - What is the root of all evil? (A silly but instructive question). Over the years, my answers have followed a progression which builds on the previous answer. It started with money and moved to power because money (or the impression of wealth ) can be a vehicle towards gaining control over other people's behaviour to support one's own position. Recently, it is has moved on to believing that it is evil to believe that I am right and other people's behaviour should bend according to that belief, despite the lack of a scientific basis to support it. On analysis this is an attempt to build the world in one's own image and is at the heart of much hatred and conflict. The deterministic attitude towards freewill puts such attitudes in stark relief. (PS: I don't believe in evil, it is just a convenient tool for getting the message across) By this logic, the belief you have expressed is one of the most important things you can believe. Don't ignore it.

[@xlittlebitlonger]

I definitely understood what you were getting at the first time I saw the video! The point wasn't supposed to be nitpicked on one specific comment or the validity of those possible things, but just that sometimes being willfully ignorant of things that could harm us is an okay thing. Knowing that it's possible that we don't actually have free will doesn't actually help me in life, so it's not gonna hurt me or others to pretend like I don't know this possible fact. Which can be applied to other things in life, but obviously being wilfully ignorant isn't something you should do for just any ole thing you don't like. It's gotta be for a better purpose. Big picture, people! Big picture!

[@dkSilo]

I had that very discussion with a friend of mine decades back. It's well described in this line of the lyrics to one song I always forget the title of: "Don't open your eyes, you won't like what you see. The blind have been blessed with security." Basically: It's probably easier to live a happy life if you know less. You can be more content when you don't know it could be better. BUT: We know it can be better! Our history shows improvement! And as we don't know if there will be some knowledge that will ultimately only lead to a worse quality of life, we should always strive to improve our pool of knowledge. Yes, sometimes it hurts to know. But if we stop we can't improve further. To decrease worldsuck is to improve, to know more, do better. In the case of free will btw it's completely obvious. Knowing for certain will only ever be a good thing: Either we have free will and from our human perspective that's the best we can hope for as we are all probably willfully ignoring that we don't. If we don't have free will, there was nothing we could have done to prevent finding it out. It will have been inevitable. And anything after (even if it means mankind would fall into chaos) will have been as well (I'd call it a good thing, as we can't prevent it and it basically absolves us of all consequences (that we still have to deal with, but it's not our "fault")).

[@FumerieHilaire]

I think the more uncomfortable a particular piece of information is to us the more important it is and the more important it is to fully understand every nuance of its implications. This particular piece of knowledge is awfully liberating when you think about it. Human exceptionalism is a psychological burden that causes us lots of harm. Understanding our true character and the humbleness of it is really very useful.

[@fortnite_4738]

I agree! If I don't have any free will and all my choices are predetermined then what is the point of me actually trying? But then if I stop trying that still wouldn't be my choice! I am happy not knowing either way.

[@aukluk]

My husband: "is that peanut butter face guy?" Me: "that's his brother"

[@lovrebabajko]

I like the existential nihilistic aproach here: free will is a very useful construct but ultimately its importance is judged solely by you and you can khm choose (examine what your brain would prefer more) if you want to spend your time finding the Truth or making others happy. Value is a human construct and making other people happy is pretty valuable to me.

[@ClarissaCullen101]

You know, a lot of stuff has happened around me recently that has been pointing me in the direction of philosophical wondering. The vlogbrothers video and this video have only hurdled me further into my exploration of existential questions. Woohoo! I find that the more I learn about different theories the less I feel like I need concrete answers. I'm at a stage in my life where I want to learn about the possible answers, but I'm content with not knowing anything for certain. It gives me comfort.

[@TXWatson]

I think it's important to be able to hold "I believe this" and "I know this to be true" as separate and not necessarily aligned, and this is one of the big questions where that matters. I think it's impossible for humans to experience the world as if we didn't have free will: a sense of free decision-making is part of what it feels like to be conscious. But to believe that that is therefore the real mechanics of our minds makes it difficult to have compassion for other people in their failures. If I insist that everyone else has real free will, it becomes hard to forgive someone for snapping at me because they had a bad day, or were hungry, or had a headache. I think we also make better decisions about how to live when we think of ourselves in the present as having agency, but our past and future selves as deterministic entities. That's how we do things like forgive ourselves for having made mistakes, and decide to set ourselves up to succeed in the future. You can act on those beliefs because they work, and still hold the knowledge that they don't reflect reality in any clear or comfortable way. I think being able to know something and not believe it is essential for pursuing deep mechanical knowledge of the world.

[@fauzia2157]

Reminds me of the dialogue "ignorance is bliss".

[@ericvilas]

We don't have free will.... But we can make choices. Just because the result of those choices is predetermined doesn't mean you aren't the one making them. I'm a compatibilist through and through - the inevitability of outcomes comes at a different level than what we talk about when we say "what do I think about?" - one is microscopic, the other is macroscopic. You can't do thermodynamics on a system as ordered as the brain the same way you would a random object. What I'm saying is, even though every atom in your body follows the laws of physics and chemistry, macroscopically speaking, "I make decisions" is a _very very good_ approximation because the brain is just _that_ complex. So why care? It works well enough, after all.

[@jobriq5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem compatibility seems plausible.

[@wschippr1]

Eric Vilas I kind of agree with you, but also disagree with you. I think we have free will to a degree, but those choices are so funnelled and filtered that they're fairly inconsequential on the small term. So as a practical example, in the morning (if played out repeatedly) I could freely pick either coffee or tea, but either way I would end up with a hot caffeinated beverage.

[@ericvilas]

@jobriq I mean, that's not quite right, I don't think quantum uncertainty has any impact on choices (and if it does, that's far from having been proven) - I'm talking about compatibilism even as applied to classical systems. @alex noa hmm, maybe? But that's just because of the setup you created. You could set up a situation where every morning you pick either sugar or sweetener for your coffee and that could change your glucose level which could change your mood that day. As like, a random example, I mean. Small choices can definitely have an impact.

[@jynxkizs]

Holding people accountable for their choices and actions is a deterministic factor that mostly affects choices positively.

[@johnmaynard869]

Good for you!, yes, the question has to have a useful answer, and meaningful. We make choices against our own interests. This may help

[@chloemoutin5548]

I feel like I can connect with a lot of what you said, as someone who is studying neuroscience but who also has strong humanist values. I learn things about the brain on a day to day basis that break down everything that I experience in simple, molecular or biological terms, yet when I come out of a lab or a classroom, I still choose to put all of that to the side because it would prevent me from being happy as a person on a day to day basis. I believe in the strength of mankind, I believe in love, I believe that humans are inexplicable and, even though I am a scientist, I believe that there are things science can't (or shouldn't?) try to explain. I don't think that it's better to NOT know, but I think it's better to know but still be able to live a normal life, ignoring it in some sense... Obviously, there might some truths so large that we would not be able to ignore them, but I haven't come across one yet and I'm hoping that continues for a while :) Thank you for your thoughts and for getting us to think and discuss!

[@jessephillips1233]

We do know that the environment and the behavior of others have a significant effect on our actions. So at best we have semi-free-will - but I think it’s valuable to flip that knowledge on it’s head. Knowing how easy it can be to influence others we have a moral imperative to act towards others in ways that allow them to be the best version of themselves. So for me accepting a certain lack of free will in general allows me to accept and treat others better. Also I can move past when I was being a jerk because I was hangry and next time plan to feed the “me machine” better so it can act nicer in the future.

[@KevOSMusic]

Gonna take your point on how if we knew for definite that predetermination is reality that that knowledge would be negative and turn that into a positive: Life is a story. There's a chance it's a story that has already been written. Yet when I read a story I know that it has been predetermined. The enjoyment of it comes from the journey taken throughout, observing the choices made, reading the changes & feeling engaged with the characters. I personally believe all knowledge is useful. Some is more useful than others. Some knowledge some people may be too young to handle and some may never be able to handle it. This particular piece of knowledge just needs a good way of looking at it. Our reality means we must approach life with the illusion of choice and consequence. And just like with many of life's illusions, we must work within those confines, ignoring some parts of reality. (so much re-writing and choices made...or were there?)

[@aubreeswart2206]

It’s so natural for us thinky people to feel and believe that more knowledge is better, but I think that counterintuitively for day-to-day functioning less knowledge can be better about certain things. Like how we say always tell the truth, but if we are engaging in a social situation where the blunt truth may hurt someone then for the sake of happiness and positive functioning we say something different or we refrain from saying things. Also, as a second point in that illustration, maybe for that person, less knowledge (of our opinion) was better, because maybe the fact of our opinion is irrelevant or will simply do more unnecessary harm than good. The question we have to ask is, “Do we want to know all of the unadulterated truth or do we want to be happy doing humany stuff daily?” because there is a good chance both goals cannot simultaneously come to fruition for our species as we know it, and if that’s the case we have to decide which is more important; ultimate knowledge and awareness or functioning happily? I feel like this isn’t as eloquent as I’d like, but the point is while not openly declaring it as fact, I find there is a strong argument for the benefit of moderation of knowledge.

[@MendoNinja]

Whether it's determined or not doesn't affect anything. In the moment it is your choice that matters. It is only from a future or timeless point of view that it affects us at all. And, lol, if course even if determined you're responsible for what you do. It's not about punishing your decision, it's about keeping people safe.

[@sophiaridder2252]

The fact that a third of the people (approximately) who have watched the vlogbrothers video came here to watch this video as well shows how loyal nerd fighters are and I love it.

[@Xechon]

The way I see it, all true knowledge opens up opportunities that we did not have before, which we do not (and can not?) know before attaining it. These opportunities will inevitably have consequences that are both beneficial and detrimental to to people, regardless of personal viewpoint. All knowledge is not necessary only if pursuing all opportunities is not necessary to you.

[@jillmitchell-holmes4835]

No free will, just the very convincing illusion of it-and that's good enough.

[@CinziaDuBois]

In all honesty, to me, Free will is a beautiful example of a Newton’s Flaming Lazer Sword.

[@connierobinson1090]

I don't care that much about philosophical free will, but I care a TON about what factors in people's lives lead them towards making which decisions. What is the impact of mental health on financial responsibility? What is the impact of the clothes I wear on how well I code? These questions feel a lot like free will questions, but they dive deep into actual human lives with real outcomes, and possibly even point towards better ways to act and structure ourselves.

[@youcancallmedoctor]

This makes me think about the ethical dilemma in medicine of disclosing a diagnosis to someone who doesn't want to know if it's a poor prognosis (or more frequently in case presentations, that their family doesn't want them to know.) There is the reality of the disease and the prognosis and the likely course. The fear, though, is that knowing that information will make their quality of life worse, or that having a negative outlook will hasten progression. In the same way that we approach this, I think we can approach determinism. What is the overall goal? Is it quality of life? Do we want to preserve a certain perceived reality and have the experiences that come with that? Is it the importance of knowledge? Do we want to build experience around new knowledge of reality? In the example of a diagnosis, would disclosure allow the patient to orchestrate a meaningful death or fill them with a fighting spirit to attempt whatever options available? So on an individual level, I completely am on board with willful ignorance OR internalizing determinism. Just what are your values? On a humanity level- it's too big for me to be decisive about. I flip back and forth too quickly. There is the opportunity to make changes, like the prison reform discussed in a TED talk referenced in a different comment. Then there is also humanity's tendency to panic. There are subsets of people that absolutely would take that knowledge and use it positively going forward, but there are also subsets of people that would very much not.

[@coolafman]

If you know about the influences of your past, perhaps how they can affect your decisions, do you become more responsible for your choices? Is there ever a bad time for having more, more accurate, and more timely information about the factors on which your decisions rely ?

[@TheSassi14]

Congrats on keeping/getting fit. Keep it up! Personally I prefer to do sports like martial arts or (soon to start) LARP (life action role play), than to go to the gym. It motivates me in more ways, because I learn a skill while keeping fit. Also I know other people want me to be there, while gym is more of a solitary activity, in my experience. Both that and gym is good for your health of course and the gym has advantages too (like being open all the time)

[@jayatherton8673]

In answer to the question you ask at the end, I would say the answer is “Yes, there are certain things individuals are better off not knowing, at least temporarily... provided that we cannot know EVERYTHING.” If, however, it would be possible to be omniscient, that would be preferable to being selectively (or randomly) ignorant. Consider as examples all of the wonderful experiences and encounters one may have even actively avoided due to some piece of information without context. If I could have somehow known ahead of time how difficult summitting a mountain is before climbing it, I would also likely never know THAT IT IS TOTALLY WORTH IT!!! But since human beings are enriched in proportion as they love (and are loved), and love depends on knowledge (since one cannot love what one does not know), it follows that to be omniscient (and being surrounded by other omniscients) would entail possessing at least the groundwork for being as enriched as one could possibly be. Any ignorance, on the other hand, would diminish potential enrichment. Nevertheless, until omniscience is possible, people are better off being ignorant of certain truths when they cannot also have the full context of those truths because we almost NEVER make the best choices with de-contextualized information.

[@rakamukherjee9070]

I should work out, but I'm just going to eat crepes instead, I guess

[@badreanna]

anime superpony i thought about working out this morning and instead ate cookies. Good life choices here haha

[@hannahswick4803]

Maybe it's almost an issue of how we define "free will". So, yes, we have the ability to make decisions. But our decisions are predictable in a pattern at a certain point (even if we can't predict those patterns with current algorithms).

[@culwin]

If we know for sure that free will doesn't exist, then it can only hurt you if you choose to let it hurt you.

[@jaeric]

In regards to knowing whether or not our decisions are predetermined wouldn't really matter because we can't see the future. Maybe the universe has already been set up in a way that means you'll have pizza for dinner on July 9th, 2026, but since there's no way for you to know that before it happens, does it really make a difference if it was predetermined?

[@keeperofthekeys84]

Jaeric: But if you find out it is all predetermined, then your attitude becomes 'hmm I wonder what will happen to me next' rather than 'I am going to do x, y, and z with my life'. You go from being an active driver of your life, to a passive experiencer. And this does seem to change, if nothing else, your own experience of your predetermined life. So there is a difference.

[@jaeric]

If everything is predetermined, knowing about it wouldn't make it a passive experience. Not unless it was predetermined that you lay around in a vegetative state. If it's predetermined that Hank was going to go to the gym today, then it was also predetermined that he would have to think about going and then actually go.

[@roceb5009]

Keeper of the Keys but you are part of that deterministic universe. Life isn't something that happens to you, it's a process that you are a part of. Saying that the life happens to you is like saying that catching a rabbit is something that happens to a wolf. The wolf has insticts, and doesn't get to choose whether or not to be a predator. It doesn't mean that it doesn't have to chase the rabbit if it doesn't want to starve, it just means that it doesn't want to starve.

[@horizon241]

I'm reading Snow Crash right now and this video is surprisingly relatable to its narrative.

[@________w]

"Free Will" is like entropy: It's true within a closed system, but if you look at the *whole* system, it's not. eg: a conditional in a program actually does make a decision about which branch to take based on its observations. The person running the program might know that in advance, and choose what input to give based on the expected reaction, but that doesn't mean that the condition isn't evaluated / doesn't mean the branch isn't chosen based on that condition. ie: The conditional doesn't observe the whole universe, it only observes the one input. It would be the same every time given the same input / "is deterministic", but that's an entirely unrelated question to "is a decision being made". Which is to say: knowledge of determinism does not impact decision-making at all, and so there is no impact on your day.

[@fatlump69]

Some very good positives result from knowing there is no free will. Ego makes no sense and will dissolve. Resentment of others makes no sense. Regret no longer makes sense. All of these lead to less suffering and a more fulfilling existence. It is always better to know more truth than less, even if there is an initial shock.

[@BrassicaRappa]

Oh man! Figuring out that I don't believe in free will was one of the most important discoveries of my life! Example: if you don't believe in free will, fault doesn’t matter anymore. That doesn't mean you don't hold people accountable - it just makes you realize that the most impotent thing is solving the problem. Accountability becomes one part of your problem solving toolkit where your primary goal begins "what can we do to increase the chances of x happening, or y not happening." rather than just who to blame. Basically, all hard moral problems become practical problems, and you can dodge all the naive utilitarian traps by realizing that your feelings still get to be part of the equation that decides where you go and what you believe. Anyway, you can pretend that it means nothing matters, but that's wrong. You are built in such a way that things do matter to you. And that's great! Your weird window into your little meat machine is limited such that you can't figure out where it's going next, and "trying" is part of experiencing the aventure, even if every decision has to be the culmination of stuff that happened earlier!

[@MrFindX]

We'll all be robots by the time we truly figure out the free will question

[@musclehank6067]

Good job for you for working out! :)

[@mistformsquirrel]

I think regarding "Are there true things it would be better not to know" - the best answer I can give is: There are things that are definitely more *pleasant* not to know. Things that are largely out of your hands (temporarily or permanently) that the knowledge of is actively burdensome to you without giving you a method to make it less so. So there's definitely knowledge that is unpleasant and at least seemingly, purposeless in terms of being able to use it to improve whatever situation there is. Random example: Somewhere, right now, someone is probably dying violently in an accident or being murdered. There's nothing any of us can do about that. That's unpleasant knowledge. That's not something most people want to even consider. For those of us who are especially empathetic it might even be actively painful to consider (and I apologize for that.) This is definitely knowledge you can get by without having. Is it better not to know that though? That's a harder question to answer. It's theoretically possible that that knowledge could make someone more appreciative of human mortality and give more consideration to the lives they can affect (including their own). Is that possibility worth the mental cost of the knowledge that somewhere, right now, someone is in pain? I don't know. I don't have a good answer there. And on the broader question of "Is there knowledge it's better not to know" the answer I have to come up with is "I don't know."

[@Pangui008]

I agree 100% with hard determinism (no free will), and I don't think that leads us to anarchy or "lack of responsibility" "Responsibility" is just the way society has to say "you'll have consecuences (either good or bad) for your acts", and consecuences are one of the variables that control our behaviour. (Beyond Freedom and Dignity (by B. F. Skinner) is a great book about it). Sidenote: studies have shown that people that believe in free will are more punitive than people who don't. [English isn't my L1, so sorry if I made a mistake writing]

[@User24x]

We make decisions, and the way we make decisions and why we make them is determined... We should punish incorrect decisions, but they had no choice but to take it. We can only try to make them not make incorrect decisions.

[@jynxkizs]

It's hard to say whether I'd regret knowing the truth about something. If I had to guess, I'd probably always want to know. No shame in not wanting to know either, if it optimizes happiness. If it's important enough to other people, you'll likely learn about it anyway.

[@dabboi7350]

how about this: you can either do something or not do something. the decision is arbitrary as you can just knock that up to some kind of probability and we can never find an answer that way, but, if you say you WILL do something, and you actually do it, or at least try to do it, or are in the process of thinking about doing it, therein lies some autonomy, i believe

[@Carnage2018]

There are definitely realities that you're better off not knowing, but I think if it's not good for you it might not be bad for someone else or not useful at least, idk either, it's been 4 years

[@gbrann100]

The thing I took away most from your video on Vlog Brothers is that regardless of whether or not the Big Bang or I decided on my last decision it doesn't matter. I have a responsibility for my actions. It's not about whether or not free will exists. This experience of existence is about being happy and good and loved and loving. not blaming all the dumb shit you do on the universe. Even if that's very tempting sometimes. It's not necessary to know if we have free will if that knowledge would make us worse people, if it would make the world a less kind place. Thanks for the food for thought Hank. This is going to leave me thinking for a while! Have a good day!

[@NWPaul72]

This comes at an interesting time. After an anxiety-inducing interaction with one if my bosses, i had a realization about how little control i have over my circumstances. I lierally said out loud, "All i can do is show up and do my best and _hope_ things turn out all right."

[@joshuathomasbird]

Lack of free will doesn't preclude punishment for bad decisions. Even though the decision was not able to be influenced by the individual, if the decision was wrong, there exists a way to change the way similar decisions are made in the future - Its like having a computer program that crashes, and then performing a bug fix to make the decision making better.

[@FlyingOctopus0]

Lack of free will have also a positve aspect mainly: Every action you take influences you in a determnistic manner, so take that into consideration and do not make some stupid mistake, because you can not magically free-will it later making correct decision with no fundation. (I used a free-will as a verb)

[@amandalynncastonguay4810]

Art, literature, music, science: it's all communication. All this so that we can work together to do the things, ponder the things, share the things together.

[@jonm4206]

One thing to consider when thinking about if we have free will is the whole liberal conservative debate about the poor, and if we should spend money to help them. Like, if you choose whether or not to do your homework as a ten year old child, or choose to study in high school, and choose to attend college and work hard and make money, it is much easier to discount the poor as not deserving of help. On the other hand, if we are all shaped unchangeably by our circumstances, if being born in a poor neighborhood, and going to bad schools, and having emotional stress placed on us, and facing pressure to take on a low wage job in high school, and all of those factors are what shapes our outcomes, it becomes a moral obligation to attempt to intervene in those communities and put in place better systems of socialization and education. It is no longer possible to blame the victim, because they are a product of family and society. From a governing standpoint, it is very important to know why some people make it out of terrible places despite their circumstances, and some people given every opportunity make terrible decisions. So yes, I think one way or another it is important to know these things, even if only on a societal level rather than a personal level.

[@ihaveabasketballgametomorr6945]

It’s easy to think too hard about free will but in reality it wouldn’t affect my life at all. Suppose I don’t have free will, but even if I knew that I didn’t it would be impossible to convince the human brain of it. I’d still weigh pros and cons and make conscious choices to do or not do certain things, even if I knew that predetermined particles were controlling me. I think free will has to exist because if it objectively didn’t, knowing so still wouldn’t strip someone of their autonomy. Another thing: I definitely agree there is some knowledge we should never possess. I think it would be terrible if humans objectively knew if there was a god (or gods), or if there is an overarching meaning of life and what it would be. Building your own ideas and understanding/appreciating those of different persuasions is part of the beauty of life! So is the mystery of never knowing what it means. Therefore knowing the meaning of life would render humans completely homogenous with nothing left to discover, rendering life meaningless even if we knew its meaning. It’s a strange paradox.

[@CthulhuAteUs]

I find determinism and every other aspect of my conception of the universe comforting because of my belonging to this amazing crazy universe. The fact that my destiny is deterministic doesn’t diminish my appreciation for the experience of life! Poetic Naturalism!

[@ZipplyZane]

I believe it is one of those definitional things. Free will exists because we experience it. Even if it turns out that I can be completely modeled, that model is still just me making decisions, as that model would just be a copy of me.

[@tejaschitnis9323]

I think it's better to know everything. Let's say there is no free will. That doesn't change the way you make decisions because your ultimate goal is to be happy and make your family happy. Everyone will act towards their personal goal.

[@bebabe1995]

In a class I took in college we had a really interesting discussion about whether or not ever developing nuclear weapons was a mistake, and that reminds me a lot of this. A lot of people in my class were of the opinion that nuclear weapons are so harmful that scientist were wrong to ever do the research that created them and I found that surprising.