Hanzhong | Hanzhong Campaign Let's Talk Lore Part 01

[@grandadmiralzaarin4962]

This campaign had to have been a logistical nightmare for both sides.

[@Aspiringamoeba1997]

yeah, the fight for the Qin mountains is a VERY classic fight whenever someone holds a base from Chengdu. The founder of the Han Dynasty had to break out from Hanzhong the same way.

[@stoopidyoutubehandle]

it is truly fascinating campaign where Liu Bei reaches his life highlight, and Cao Cao, albeit owning 2/3 of Han China, still can't fully defeat/breach Liu Bei's regime after losing Hanzhong. Imagine all military supply from both sides must travel through altitude of 3000 meters beast paths, wagons can't go through so the supply chain is made of handwheel carts carried by unnourished peasants who can die of heat or venomous bugs/snakes anytime, or they simply fail off hidden cliff/gaps. Even today for a solo pro mountaineer with full safety gear, the "Shudao" can still be a challenge. If you are a 3rd century general, being able to march ten thousands of men through all the bastions(关 before your ration drains/rots, it's probably something truly marvelous and a feat undying in antique times. A guy called Deng Ai later did it in blitz style and that feat alone earned his place among Chinese martial legend shrine(武庙). It is a shame that CA abandoned TW3K before the 3k even happens.

[@MasterZhang]

5:11 first recorded use of the "looping strategy", colorized

[@ryannguyen7466]

4:10 Deng Ai pulled a pro gamer move and he was in his 60s back then.

[@Torag55]

3:38 imagine just walking on these wooden planks, knowing death is just waiting below, and they're walking with weighted military equipment and supplies. Scary sight, especially for those with a fear of heights.

[@Yacovo]

Imagine all three kingdoms' campiagn calcus depending on how long you can hold out without surrendering. And you are not even currently allied with any of them. Thanks for the video.

[@bw1678]

The campaign that finally broke Cao Cao and made him realize he couldn't unite China in his lifetime.

[@spartan2051]

Pour one out for a real one

[@animefightlover4686]

First I was red cliff. Then it was Hanzhong. Cao Cao also used Sima Yi in the first time there.

[@agathonchristianto9580]

No, that was at chi bi, losong han zhong actually benefitted cao cao because later it will trigger sun quan's betrayal against liu bei. Yes it all went according to cao cao' master plan :)

[@rivalstorm7216]

So Zhang Fei and Zhang He are battling in a narrow mountain pass. Well that explains their position in DW3

[@tigerace518]

Zhang he died in the second expedition of zhuge Liang :( 2010 three kingdoms series

[@Atom523]

Awesome, I knew about Zhang Fei defeating Zhang He but didn't know about Huang Quan pacifying the rebelling locals. Neat, I have always liked Huang Quan nice to learn something new about him.

[@bkjeong4302]

No wonder Shu Han lasted almost as long as Wei (on paper, in practice actually longer) did; good luck invading across such terrain unless you’re Deng Ai.

[@Goobermint]

LISTEN man i love the total war campaigns you do. I like that you switch it up. Also doing lu bu with a ton of variations of your rules or what your doing that game would be sick and lots of value in that for differnt lu bu vids. lu bu is special for many and his campaign is my fav to play.

[@depression6768]

Zhang Fei was becoming more impressive strategically overtime really, despite the image people usually frame him.

[@liviubostan7229]

Whenever you do another video of a person or event,please always add a map in the background,switch between the game's map and real life. It's extremly engaging and informative when maps are shown,just like in this one. Thank you for the amazing video!

[@SeriousTrivia]

Like I said, good maps are hard to find. If I can find one, I will always try to include them. If I can’t then I can’t :(

[@liviubostan7229]

@@SeriousTrivia Thanks for trying,if you can't find one,use the in game map so we can guide atleast a bit. Also I've been meaning to ask you,why was Guan Yu executed? I thought he might have been takem prisoner and used as leverage in peace talks,but not executed. He didn't seem to be a guy you could hate,he was just doing his job.m

[@SeriousTrivia]

Sun Quan wasn't looking for any peace talks at the time. Lu Meng in particular had a distaste of Guan Yu. Also Guan Yu is probably the type to trash talk you even while imprisoned and would gladly die rather than being kept as leverage.

[@lazyc0mmander277]

@@liviubostan7229 He was also one of Liu Bei's top general so it made sense that Sun Quan would nip that problem in the bud when he had the chance.

[@liviubostan7229]

@@SeriousTrivia Still,man. I find it hard to believe he'd just be executed like that,he had a fair and noble reputation,or so I think. Were there no repercussions? No letters of apology,nothing? It's such a big deal yet so not talked,he was deified after all..

[@ChhalySamsokrith]

The Battle that often degrade in favor of some others. I still feel disappointed that the 2010’s series make short work of it. So many amazing clashes and fights in this battle. Really excited about the series, thanks ST

[@tonys9397]

Zhang Fei using strategy unlike how in romance hes super dumb when it comes to that

[@jeromegeorge9228]

Great video Serious Trivia :)

[@chessmastertactics6929]

Great video again and so much detail! I really like these lore videos. Indeed i now understand why the northern expeditions were so difficult undertakings...I have a question though: i believe that it was the massive defeat at Chibi that made Cao Cao understand that China could not be reunited under his rule and lifetime. The Hanzhong campaign was done to secure the future stability and to trap Liu Bei in Shu lands. Perhaps the successor to Cao Cao would complete the conquest of Yi province as happened historically under the son of Sima Yi. Am i right?

[@SeriousTrivia]

I mean there is always the chance that Liu Bei loses badly in Hanzhong leading to rebellion from within the Yi Province. Combined with Cao Cao's armies in Hanzhong, I think Yi could have been taken if the cards fell right for Cao Cao here.

[@kaloyantsonev130]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@sovietbear1917]

Hard pass from me on taking one of the new wooden mountain passes, let alone doing it back in the old days.

[@MilesWalterKeogh]

Hypetrain is rolling!

[@arnavm7383]

at 9:44, you mention that Sun Quan attacked on Hefei again. Two questions: 1. Which attack number is this one? 2. How many attacks did he do on Hefei in total?

[@SeriousTrivia]

This should be his second attack, I think there will be six in total

[@arnavm7383]

@@SeriousTrivia what's more foolish then, Jiang Wei's 11-ish attacks in the North or Sun Quan's 6 attacks on Hefei?

[@SeriousTrivia]

In terms of failures, Sun Quan because he had plenty of chances to win but didn’t

[@lazyc0mmander277]

@@SeriousTrivia I'd argue Jiang Wei if only because at least Sun Quan gave some nice opportunities to Shu with his attacks at Hefei, whereas I'm not sure if the opposite worked out the same way. Also, nearly 11 failed attempts is a lot and must have been a drag on the economy...

[@Chinag]

Woah, satellite maps

[@jayanthkn7056]

If the passes and gallery roads are in such a state, no wonder Zhuge Liang had a Herculean task. How did Han Xin succeed where Zhuge Liang couldn't? I get it that the strategic situation was different but still Han Xin would have had to march his army across right which would be time consuming. Kindly shed more light on this, Master.

[@SeriousTrivia]

Liu Bang voluntarily burned down the planks on the road to Shu then secretly built the Chencang path. Then they snuck out on a new path that no one knew about and beat up three vassal lords who were extremely weak. It is very different when you have a unified state like Wei who is pouring resources into the west being mindful of the situation versus leaving it open. Xiang Yu was not a king or an emperor. He gave himself Chu and split the land back like spring autumn, so he had no control on how the west was being defended....and also Liu Bang and Han Xian took the west in one try then never had to worry about the Shu roads again (they were also stationed in Hanzhong and not in Shu so they just had to take the very short northern half of the route instead of having enough food from Chengdu)

[@jayanthkn7056]

@@SeriousTrivia right. You had mentioned it was a 2,000 mile trek from Chengdu to Hanzhong itself. The more I learn about this, the more respect I gain for Zhuge Liang. Sima Yi had an easy time compared to Zhuge Liang. You know you could have a massive "what if" scenario here.

[@SeriousTrivia]

1500 li or 750 km

[@jayanthkn7056]

@@SeriousTrivia thank you for the correction 😁😄

[@kintongreen3625]

@@jayanthkn7056 this is underestimating Sima Yi. His campaign against Gongsun Yuan faced significant logistical issues yet he actually came out victorious. I'd say the conditions were worse for him.

[@bosbanon3452]

Thank you for the map i can understand better

[@marshalldteach7052]

After finish this please do battle of Hefei let's talk lore

[@alexg5535]

Totally unrelated question. What name did the land of China received during the Han dinasty? I'm asking because in his campaign Liu Bei clearly states that "[he] weeps for China". And maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds anachronistic to me. I can't imagine a man from the 2nd / 3rd century AD relating to the entity of China as we know it today. Did the Han (or the former Qin, for that matter) established a name for the lands of their kingdom?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Well, are you talking about the English word China, or how China is referred to in Chinese (Zhong Guo) or Middle Kingdom in terms of direct translation? The Chinese term of China is actually really really old as the characters Zhong Guo 中国 referring to the land of China have been found on bronze urns dating to then the Shang Zhou Dynasties. Technically back then you would just refer to the dynasty name probably. Like calling it Han or Da Han (big Han or the great Han depending on the translation) would be more normal.

[@alexg5535]

@@SeriousTrivia Yeah, I was asking about how China was referred to during this time by the Han people. But you did answer my question. I never knew about Zhong Guo. I thought "China" was a more modern term for the region for some reason. I knew that islamic sources (and later on, european authors) referred to Central Asia as Cathay, but that came a long time after the Han. Many thanks!

[@yingzheng8434]

Man, sun quan multiple failure at hefei deserve more talking.. like how he always failed at hefei... Since his first rise until he is gone, even after he is gone...

[@ChhalySamsokrith]

Btw, is this map from RTK XIV? Look familiar

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes the cover art is from ROTK

[@caocalo2485]

😍

[@kaloyantsonev130]

Благодаря 👍

[@Powd3r81]

Can I ask you a question? I love your content, but it always irks me how you speak. As an lover of this time period I have watched the 2010 show 4-5 times and have started taking a course in chinese this spring. I have noticed your pronunciation of many words is off. Is it how you were raised, or where did you get it? It sounds completely different from the way characters in the 2010 show talk or from how I've heard my instructor talk.

[@SeriousTrivia]

can you give me some examples? Like I assume you are talking about the Chinese names and not the way I speak in English?