David Holmgren Interview on Permaculture, Energy Descent & Future Scenarios

[@dittoleeo]

I'm currently a high school student and this is just incredibly fascinating! I had minor plans to pursue this in college, but after hours of videos, I'm determined to kick start my journey down this rabbit hole. Permaculture, agroforestry, and syntropic food forests are so complicated and interesting.

[@samanthaquant7411]

You go for it! You are the best hope for our future. Thank you! And the earth thanks you too.

[@ThankfullyHis]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee were eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeereeeeeeeeee

[@olivialewis3868]

advise take it or leave it...go for it forget colleges and student loans get stuck in learn as you grow and out of this and everything you read and watch you will strengthen your green thumb and also become a wonderful inspiring teacher of the same. Best wishes.

[@jpsteinberg4870]

I'm a grad student and I'm citing the heck out of this interview for a policy paper rn.

[@prescottmccarthy]

Get it leeo! The rest of us wish we had kickstarted in high school too!

[@tamas-mark]

I like to listen to people who make sense. He is absolutely one of them.

[@Playlist4213]

He's also very good at speaking in a way that's easy to listen to. :)

[@captainktz]

@@Playlist4213 same goes for his writing. Very clear despite the complexity of certain notions he employs

[@JB-yg3ew]

Cool to see an uptick in interest in this in 2020. These ideas are what we need!

[@umhebes]

Even more so in 2021 I hope!

[@saltriverorchards4190]

I think it is definitely on the increase. I am one of the new ones. I didn’t know anything about permaculture just a few years ago. I think the most important thing to do is to talk to other people about it. I think most people in the world would be onboard if they only knew about it.

[@Meraxes6]

@@umhebes and in 2022! :)

[@becmercer2573]

Thank you for doing this longform interview with David. His thinking (and doing) is so inspiring.

[@teresaoconnell4790]

My boyfriend went nuts and planted 2 of everything in our backyard duing the winter. We are seeing our first spring blossoms of plum and blueberry.

[@squeaker19694]

Rewatching this after watching it a year ago. What you said is very appropriate for our current times. I think your rapid descent scenario is about to unfold. I've had a bad feeling since the pandemic hit because it opened my eyes to how fragile our whole society is. Im a regenerative avocado farmer down in Denmark WA. Ive been cranking up my own personal food production and knowledge of how to live with less energy and broken supply chains. Many of the youngins including my adult children are dreaming of country living, tiny homes and permaculrure now. I think they are going to be forced into it soon. So much gratitude to you and Bill and others who have grown the permaculture movement.

[@unofficialfuture3120]

This is one of the most succinct and deep thinking analysis of our likely future I've heard yet - great work and thanks for sharing!

[@dantescanline]

Love your short films and all these long interviews! As always David is a calm and clear voice of reason

[@scrumptiousjdp]

He is absolutely brilliant! Thank you for letting him talk without Interruption.

[@9000ck]

What I love about Permaculture as an economic/political theory is how it lacks hysteria. It looks at change as inevitable so you may as well identify the sources of change and consider ways of adapting to it. That includes multiple plans, not a single plan. Happy to see David Holmgren's calmness in the face of change. It's inspiring.

[@RyanKudasik]

This is a great interview. Thanks for sharing! I love David's mind. I think he has applied his genius to some of the most useful solutions to some of the biggest challenges that confront us.

[@urban9361]

Absolutely brilliant. David certainly has both the knowledge and the skills, both in practical permaculture and in conveying the essence of what is important for our future.

[@treesagreen4191]

I've watched this before but just watched it again today, as the UK is beginning to progressively relax lockdown amid Covid19 and thinking about the reduction in consumerism and people being happy working from home, parents home schooling kids...it is amazing how much people have adapted but scary how strong the pull is to return to the comfort of their pre-Covid existence for many

[@briannacooper2628]

I love Happen Films. I just got Holmgren's book Future Scenarios and then found the video. Thank you for your work!

[@perchandponder2085]

This must be one of the most thoughtful intelligent interviews I've heard. Perhaps I'm biased because I tend to be most interested in how systems work and efficient sustainable gardening. But seriously, David Holmgren speaks about such a wide variety of issues and relates them in a way that makes sense. He spoke about things that have been on my mind for a number of years but could not really understand why I had these concerns. So maybe I'm not crazy after all. 😆

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thanks!

[@positivityspiral]

Thanks so much for posting this and other videos. Happen Films has fine production and inspiring subject matter.

[@happenfilms]

+Brian Melanson Thank you :)

[@oskarg4270]

Brian Melanson Intresting

[@mlindsay527]

I thought I spent a lot of time thinking about these things! I hope he gets out and has some fun every now and again.

[@andiw7358]

Thank you so much for this. "Build toward a new normal." Yes. 1:02:37 - This is what I’ve been trying to talk about, but haven’t seen anybody else talk about. This is real action, divesting from the current economic system and investing in a new system that already has a framework, and much of that framework is natural. “Never believe that a few caring people can’t change the world. For indeed, that’s all who ever have.” (Margaret Meade) Interestingly, I personally have seen permaculture taken up by both people who consider themselves on the “left” (Transition Initiative), and people who consider themselves on the “right” (“preppers”). (I personally don’t believe in left and right; I think they are ideas made up by the people in control of our societies to divide the people and thus greatly dilute our strength.

[@jenniferspring8741]

Best interview I've ever seen with David Holmgren. Thank you so much!

[@ontherims3284]

That was great!. So instead of trying to loosly explain how I feel about my life to someone, I can just show them this. Not to sound like a nut-job.. and although I was scooting to the edge of my seat a few times, I agree with this guy 100%.

[@Kiwiwanderer]

Gosh you lucky couple meeting, talking to some of the greatest wisest unsung hero’s/minds of our time. Thank you for sharing them, this is when I love the internet.

[@edgeman148]

This is truly a brilliant piece of work, thank you for making and sharing it.

[@jdc1794]

49:51 super relevant to right now "If more people are working from home, and there's more activity happening at home, that builds the capacity for community, as well as things like less crime from casual surveillance."

[@kimhope9638]

I agree after being at home for a year, I have started a Firewise community to try to make our local homes defensible for the fires that are happening now in California.

[@matthewm9261]

Unfortunately my hometown has seen a large uptick in crime over the last 18 months. Maybe is depends on your location

[@sigridkingma961]

I experienced this as well. Working from home is great. During my break I can work in the newly made cummunal garden. In a suburban area. Things can change fast in times of crisis. I hope working from home becomes the new normal.

[@sylviarogier1]

Grew my own potatoes this year! Eat them everyday!! Love the video. Have listened to it many times over.

[@151yaron]

Thank you very much for this interview, some really important and eye opening points were discussed here about the bigger picture, and it all makes perfect sense!

[@Rigenera_natura]

Intervista visionaria e brillante... Grazie per la condivisione. Unico feddback: Nella parte finale ultimi 15 minuti del video non appaiono più i sottotitoli. Thank you Happen Film, thanks David ❤ Un abbraccio from Italy

[@annikasyren3696]

I love this film :) Just a note. He mentions a few times ”military” economy or sector, according to the English subtitles, but I think he actually says ”monetary” economy or sector.

[@AG-SYS]

Brilliant. More people in the Permaculture scene need to talk about what a completely effective, non-violent solution it can be to our problems ! This Holmgren interview is a clarion call. Summarizing Marx - The mode of production dictates the possible social and political structures in a society. "To understand the way wealth was distributed and consumed, it was necessary to understand the conditions under which it was produced." How can one be surprised at the massive economic inequality we have when the means of production is owned by a small group of people !? TAKE IT BACK.

[@AG-SYS]

chris evans What am I saying to take back and how am I proposing to do it ? I'm an advocate of NAP so forget about all the violence.

[@RB-mt7ot]

fuck the communists - don't ever share their stuff again. So disrespectful for all those who have died under communism.

[@AG-SYS]

@@RB-mt7ot I don't like their ideas myself but the quote of Marx above is accurate and correct. Take the good with the bad,

[@ccrg109]

@@RB-mt7ot 20 Million people die needlessly from Capitalism each year, from poverty, starvation, preventable disease, etc. That's over one billion people in the last 50 years. And you have a problem with what were really peasant societies taking control over their own government from the wealthy aristocrats, and just happening to make some agricultural mistakes leading to famines? You clearly have misplaced priorities on what the enemy of humanity is. It's capitalism.

[@surajrshetty]

Words of wisdom! He answered so many of my questions. Thanks!

[@tahliab29]

Yes this is what we need!

[@EustaquioSantimano]

Enjoyed the interview. Learnt a lot of new things today. Thanks.

[@farmerjones5479]

I would love to see David Holmgren address in 2021 what he said in 2016. Many if not most of his predictions have come true. Update please.

[@tombartels3742]

Thanks so much for posting this. So good to here calm assessment of our dilemma and well designed solutions.

[@MrTemqueser]

Awesome interview. It might be really helpful if you could post a timestamp and question table of contents in the description, so people can skip around to hear the answers that are most interesting to them.

[@PermacultureSenegal]

Thank you for posing this great inspiring interview.

[@jd2379]

Greetings from Croatia, keep up the awesome work :D I will do my fair share aswell on local level to spread same values!

[@danielfixborn5860]

Thank you David! 🤠

[@claireduncn5586]

Thank you for the video! So much wisdom and knowledge ❤🇵🇭

[@patdun2580]

Well done David, while its a very general approach you take, its enough to get you thinking about all the scenarios playing out and how it relates to the broader change required, thank you!

[@RafsKitchenGardenChannel]

Thanks for another great video !

[@LenaMatildaCats]

Love your channel, everyone should hear this.

[@johncarr8557]

Wondeful video! Thank you!! Chapter headings in the info section would be helpful for navigation.

[@libbys400]

can you add captions please? I'd love to watch but I'm hard of hearing.

[@varietasVeritas]

Has someone helped you with this?

[@ItsHellaFoe]

@@varietasVeritas This video still needs to be closed captioned

[@carolined3058]

@@ItsHellaFoe You can add it your self when you press on the flower underneath and you can choose the language

[@ItsHellaFoe]

@@carolined3058 I know :) I've actually been adding captions to this video. I just need some help as it's quite effortful.

[@DesidiaTV]

@@ItsHellaFoe Thank you so much for adding captions. I just watched the whole interview and having captions was a tremendous help

[@ItsHellaFoe]

Hello people, I've added ~40 minutes worth of English subtitles to this video. I'm growing weary though, and I'm wondering if others would help by contributing a couple minutes of captions.

[@silvertonguedaywalker9116]

Hi David we live in England. The prices of Housing. Food . Petrol has gone through the Roof. The price of Electric and Gas is just crazy. I do worry about the Elderly it is either heat their homes and not Eat or Eat and not Heat their Homes. When i was a kid we had to go to the Library to do our Homework. Now we have the net which makes our life so much easier. Our Dentist is private. We have the NHS in England our National Heath is suffering, the backlog from Covid Is so high. People waiting for Surgery. Appts etc. I think in years to come our NHS will be sold, scary to think of but i really do. Our Grandson is 6 he was on NHS Dentist now we have to pay for him. We are Debt free. which is great. We have a Plan for when we Retire. I have seen so many Homesteaders have the opinion that their Government is out to get them. Some go off Grid and do not even have running water, i find it really interesting seeing how others live. One thing i am not is Materialistic. I do worry for our Kids and Grandkids. No am not a Grandma yet lol. Not everyone is into Gardening. x Some are open to changing their lives, other will not matter how good a Teacher is they just do not want to change. x🌱🌻🌱🌻🌱.

[@AntonioLopez-kx6ho]

Una pena, nos gustó mucho la entrevista pero desaparecen los subtitulos a partir de 1:14:35, nos quedamos sin conocer sus respuestas a las últimas preguntas

[@sav376]

Really enjoyed this. Thank you for the interview

[@peterellis4262]

Sometimes the notions of succession apply to how we develop our designs. David used living fences v. wire fences as an example of analyzing what to use, but didn't follow it through to the idea that we initially install that wire fence, providing the function we needed promptly, and we begin the process of succession to replace that wire fence with a hedgerow/living fence in the future. And Nature starts working on it for us pretty quickly, because the birds use the fence for a perch and drop fertilized seeds under the fence line, where we don't cut so often - and our living fence begins even before we start planting ;)

[@alextate418]

Very interesting - thank you.

[@the_earthway]

Thank you, thank you, thank you

[@xyzsame4081]

Working from home especially in the suburbs and people getting more into gardening, homesteading, prepping and DIY projects. - 2020 and pandemic calling.

[@ErolAkkan]

If closed caption feature was on that would be great for none English speaker...:)

[@razsbags]

Click on CC near the settings.

[@ambersamusements]

Loved every single moment of this interview. Wow. Would our current Covid-19 situation fall into one of the types of energy decent reorganization you refer to?

[@linmal2242]

Is the interest coming back? I was interested back in the '70's when living in Melbourne then and caught the 'permaculture bug' back then. But life takes you in different directions, and that self-sufficiency movement got left behind as other priorities superceded and super imposed. Still have a little hankering for the concept but time, reality and circumstance has moved me on.

[@jb-fp2vs]

I love that he is talking about every place on earth does not have to be the same as I have noticed that newer cookbooks are useing the same product/ most of which do not grow in the northern climates so shipping in foods from warmer weathers is stupid as they taste awful / I do not live in a place where avocados grow /so what I grow must withstand months of no sum light and extreme freezes so I do not understand why everyone must cook the same foods / banana plants do not grow in New York state so why would I bake banana bread I use apples and blueberries that grow wild around me what I find is the perfection that veggies and fruits must have/. wild was degraded /so poisons were created / bananas growing in plastic bags

[@sabahananclover279]

So informative

[@sylviarogier1]

Just a note regarding the subtitles. . . I think at 52:50 it's "non-monetary" economies and not "non-military" economies.

[@kevinbleakley5069]

It's probably Google's automatic AI subtitles.

[@xyzsame4081]

0:12 Questions by Samuel Alexander of the Simplicity Institute 0:24 dould you intrdocue the notion of an energy descent future and explain its relevance ? 6:11 Can renewable energy fully replace a fossil fuelled economy and how would energy descent impact on culture ?

[@porqupine-ridge]

I've never watched a better interview in my life. Wish I had his climate 😒🌞

[@ivankinsman4829]

Energy descent seems to be either a result of overexploitation or a gradual reduction through hybrid or fully renewable systems. Perhaps an additional factor now is a virus which is already slowing down the global industrial system from both the supply and the consumer side e.g. Italy's economy is being severely impacted by corona virus. The concepts of transition initatives is an interesting one and this will take a serious amount of planning e.g. converting the domestic home -as is already happening - with solar panels, wind turbines, rainwater harvesting, transforming of gardens for food production etc. A big change required is for companies to really get behind homeworking and even e.g. doing a 5 hour day. www.rainwaterrunoff.com

[@naig9722]

Bonjour A quand la traduction ? Merci

[@miriamendres7415]

Terrific, undergoing our own life assessment and have a basic plan to growing our own food. Need to move out of the environment that we are living in.

[@nationofibrahim1302]

BismillahirRahmanirRahim Can I have permission to upload on Facebook this video?

[@xyzsame4081]

1:20:35 How can we become emotionally resilient and maitain a sense of positivity in very challenging times ?

[@xyzsame4081]

56:35 You mentioned that life in an energy descent future might be in our interests. Could you explain how and why ?

[@divided_and_conquered1854]

Do you see why good people never even attempt to make it in politics? We really need to turn that around. Good people SHOULD be looking to get into politics, if at the least, locally.

[@YTKion]

Watching in 2022. So telling….

[@rodrigocaldas4237]

Tank you

[@lukasfischer3405]

Wise words.

[@jb-fp2vs]

the jet stream is already affecting my being able to grow food/. warm cold warmer freezing sun no sun insects no insects that is my spring 2020 to2021 people bring their city and suburb mentality / I watched people leave the city near my farmer parents and need street lights . and other mentality from where they came/ they would not drink well water but needed water supply from the city they left / they could not grow their own food so the town had to bring in a huge grocery store which meant bringing food from around the world for them/ I used to be able to see the stars my father taught me and now ....nope except just straight my head /the fear of dark is really damaging and the fear of insects. today I learned that the young adults are coming out to a gorge river and dying because they are used to being given sidewalks and people keeping them safe and so many have fallen into the gorge not understanding nature and being stung by bees and drowning/ going into the wild is not understood /

[@xyzsame4081]

27:17 Activists working for change often find themselves depndent on the industrial systems they are trying to replace. Could you share your thoughts on that ethical challenge ?

[@xyzsame4081]

37:47 Could you discuss your work on future scenarios ?

[@jb-fp2vs]

humans think that wind turbines and solar panels means less fossil fuels ???? you have to manufacture those things my question is how do you create metal nails and screws and wires for transporting electric for lights and the computers I am wondering how people will get out of their buildings with electric doors once that shuts down???

[@mactwyver]

51:51 LOL

[@314151618]

Who do you think should play this guy in his bio pic, jeff bridges or woody Harrelson? I can't make up my mind. Awesome dude.

[@samuelnuzbrokh3027]

definitely woody harrelson

[@melaniedeason7813]

@@samuelnuzbrokh3027 Woody with a head of hair!

[@colactix1]

Well, the more 'working from home' culture certainly came true. Tho, maybe not in expected ways...

[@xyzsame4081]

That video could be a podcast and I listen more to it than I watch (doing things while listening) so it would be a good idea to NARRATE the questions as well. I have noticed that other content creators do the same - The style element of the "silent" question does not make sense, it would b hardly anymore effort to do a voice over - that little detail makes the video LESS useable. I am thankful however that you resisted that temptation to add background music - many video creators suffer from that bug as well ;)

[@iowaclassic]

I get the impression he is not a fan of solar. And I understand that it requires energy to make solar panels. But that goes for everything. Those of us who live in more brutal climates need something to provide energy.

[@07negative56]

I take it you’re from Iowa. So am I. We use geothermal, a small wind, and solar. Rocket mass heater for heat.

[@garret5412]

good

[@user-vc8ry2fw3h]

Permaculture, with thinking about how to spread this awareness , you have to reach for the young, the vegans, the spiritual, they know how organic ect. effects our lives and differences it can make, they can help spread the word, especially given their youthfulness & youthfulness connections, Working from the bottom up they will teach their parents, help change habits, change habits for future kids, bringing the awareness in everyone and not just the people that want to learn. Vegans as I see are mostly young, and are already making a change but don't know they key concept of permaculture and how much further it could be taken. The youth also know about SEO, internet trends, key phrases-concepts-ideas, much more & could bring it to a higher display as the internet furthers to grows in marketing, media

[@jb-fp2vs]

so taking down trees on the far hillside for wind mills is better

[@trevorvanzuydam8115]

well solar could work but just not with (current ) photovoltaic panels. Rather using heliostat farms could meet that nett energy problem.

[@SongsInRevival]

um nature is abundant its humans that are finite on earth. not the other way round.

[@simonsharp9075]

What is that supposed to be arguing against? Humans are turning untold tonnes of nature into unrecyclable waste. Oil is a finite resource. Hence why there is destructive fracking. You don't do that if there's easy access to oil.

[@scotttheo3711]

The problem is not Europeans!!! The problem is the tribe you can’t talk about

[@ChrisG-om9uy]

2021..who is watching this?

[@whattodoinanemergency1203]

I JUST NEED 4 RABBITS TO BE FREE BUT IM SCARED TO BE FREE

[@davej7458]

So much self importance gets in the way of the real thing. Your other video of their homestead realy had a message that meant something.

[@TheBalterok]

I agree with most what the man says, but solar - is sh t

[@Peter111ization]

Permaculture type lifestyles could lead to more resource- based- economies rather than monetary based economics. Monetary economies are not really needed and they are not really a resource at all.

[@whattodoinanemergency1203]

COLLAPSE NOW AND AVOID THE RUSH

[@kerrymarris4260]

Georgia guide stones

[@whattodoinanemergency1203]

DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN GET $250 FOR ONE PET RABBIT AND MAKE $100000 A YEAR GROWING MICROGRENS IN YOUR SPARE ROOM

[@spoonsnaper]

I like permaculture but damn does it sound culty.

[@whattodoinanemergency1203]

POOP IN A BIOGAS DIGESTOR IS ENDLESS FREE ENRGY

[@tobyneufeldt5763]

This is a very depressing view of our world and shows a total lack of faith in our ingenuity to find alternative cheap, clean energy sources like nuclear fission, and anti-matter. 200 years to the end of fossil fuels, is a lot of time to develop alternatives...

[@navylaks2]

23:00 he said Trump :)

[@JesseOtto]

wow he is just making things up on reverberate energy... panels would be more expensive to make if the process used renewable energy? he just bs's his way through this to get to his energy descent nirvana

[@mattmillen4338]

Any chance you can explain in more detail what you mean? do you mean solar panels would be cheaper if they could be built using renewable energy? and if so how? He covered a lot of ground in this interview, is there a possibility you just picked out one thing you disagreed with him on and then wrote everything else off? What else would you consider bs?

[@JesseOtto]

He says that manufacture of solar panels is still dependent on cheap subsidized fossil-fuel energy, as if that is an argument against solar and an argument for his dark green future... and it is specious... a large portion of the US is already at grid parity - costs of solar equal to nonrenewable market rates; and looking at it another way, panels now produce more energy over lifetimes than the energy required to produce www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-now-make-more-electricity-they-use Did I write off everything he said? No... but I do question everything he says because he is wed to his ideology of energy decline... whether or not that is the likeliest future scenario... he talks about the false prophecies of the nuclear and solar proponents but doesn't mention the dark greens' false prophecies of peal oil. I question everything he says because of his break from academia and any desire to hold permaculture to any intellectual rigor.

[@JesseOtto]

I would respect dark greens more if they at least acknowledged that we do not know what the future holds, that they stop "wishing and hoping" for collapse of modern civilization, and simply say "in case we go down the energy collapse route, we will hopefully have some ways to make it less painful and survive"

[@mattmillen4338]

Thats encouraging news about the developments in solar. I'm still sceptical about its ability to replace the pre existing infrastructure by when it would be required to. I think its too soon to dub the peak oil scenario as a false prophecy. Shale has offered a temporary solution but it seems only temporary. Our global economy relies on a system of exponential ever expanding growth whilst we consume finite resources... that model is not sustainable and I think David's thoughts on that are deeply considered. I think he does acknowledge he doesn't know what the future holds by recognising the four potential pathways but just sees energy descent as the most likely. Have you seen any material by Chris Martenson? I'd be interested to get your take on his work regarding this stuff, especially the crash course. What do you see as the most likely scenario? You no doubt see peak oil as bs which I find interesting because I'm pretty sold on that research.

[@JesseOtto]

What is your skepticism based on? Knowledge of the current state of technology? You also says "by when it would be required to." Do you have knowledge of when energy decline will begin? I do not think fossil fuel is unlimited so at some point energy from this source must decline, whether that is a sharp peak and sharp decline or a steady plateau with a very slow decline. Hubbert had predicted peak oil in the 1970s and here we are with very little if any decline, not unlike Moore's law continuing to see processing power increasing. My gripe is that Holmgren uses his ideology and then cherry picks information or wholesale invents narratives to fit his ideology. And, yes I have a problem with the success of our economy being based on infinite growth and resource consumption, but this is not just Holmgren's concern. There are plenty of people in academia and even industry that are working on this. Take the Coursera course taught by Jeffrey Sachs at Columbia titled The Age of Sustainable Development. I like the grassroots nature and activism of permaculture, but it needs a dose a realism and research.

[@aslmad1]

boring speaking style. can't intake what's being said. um pause ah. pause eh ....

[@Captain_MonsterFart]

Yes, better he speak like an FM radio host. To appeal to those with low attention spans.

[@aslmad1]

The Cat's Meow. Yes

[@simonsharp9075]

Maybe learn to improve your concentration. It's a full unedited interview. not soundbites to keep you entertained.

[@9000ck]

Is it more important to be educated or entertained?

[@stephen_pfrimmer]

Thanks!