Happy Chaos: A Measured Response (GGST 1.10)

[@HuevoBendito]

"I'm just a Nago player." - Julian "Hotashi" Harris, ARCREVO America 2021 Champion, EVO 2021 Online - NA Champion

[@javjuegos_8917]

Humbleness

[@vachder7350]

always nice to see a nago player be humble

[@pikachuattack542]

I would love to play sets with the guy as another Nago player. Same with Deb, honestly.

[@fishussugon3215]

@@pikachuattack542 ah the nago mirror match, the matchup where nago always wins

[@wahbucket501]

I appreciate that you actually put together a video like this. Most FGC guys I’ve seen when talking about a topic like this will just sort of ramble while in training mode and it can be awkward to follow. Visual aids go a long way lol

[@samsonfgc3472]

There is a slight mistake in this vid. HC is actually 2f more plus when he does extra reloads after a guard crush than you say he is. He is +13 on double reload and +4 on triple reload.

[@Srewtheshadow]

Fantastic

[@Josie.770]

oh for fuck sake

[@SydneySininen]

I love this character

[@Firenove]

hey unlucky :)

[@ZeronFXL]

being minus is a skill issue

[@emeraldmann1329]

You know, I knew that happy chaos' meter gain was ridiculous, but just seeing that meter gain at 3:54 just really put it in perspective

[@krehera]

this style of video -- "just the facts" -- is incredibly valuable. Thanks for laying it all out like that.

[@SydneySininen]

I never thought about how little meter the opponent gets for blocking bullets, especially when BRC Beyblade is probably Nago's best approach

[@VodkaMan876]

I really like chaos as a character. I think in tems of visuals and style, he is probably one of the coolest characters in the game. His gimmick is very unique and has a lot of depth behind it. One of the biggest issues with the character is probably that he has access to a win condition at any range, and any situation that isn't defense. I don't think arcsys would gut him, and i wouldn't want him to be gutted, but I think focusing on only one or maybe two of his strengths as a character would go a long way for balancing him(ie, zoning, mix-ups, midrange). Thank you for the video Hotashi!

[@stolensentience]

Guns are a terrible fg mechanic in general tbh

[@zero123alpha6]

@@stolensentience why? They're cool

[@stolensentience]

@@zero123alpha6 the same reason Dhalsim makes any match slow and unengaging. It’s obviously subjective but guns just don’t belong in a non shooting duel. Maybe it can be done well but it never has been, and for reasons which I think obvious.

[@juniperrodley9843]

@@stolensentience Well, most people (myself included) disagree strongly with the idea that it's never been done well.

[@stolensentience]

@@juniperrodley9843 erron black? In any case, you don’t speak for most people.

[@lumina3257]

Me seeing this video in my subs: "Oh hey I didn't know HBomb played fighting games." Me, moments later: "Hey wait"

[@sk3tchyguy]

"Sometimes he's a rushdown character, other times he's a midrange monster, then at other times he's a full screen zoner" hmm sounds like a certain character who also happens to use guns lul

[@SSJUnderDog]

Wait who?

[@octozed]

@@SSJUnderDog I know very little about xrd, but probably elphelt.

[@Anthem34]

sounds like an injustice character or two

[@deabogg]

Did (and I’m not being sarcastic I really don’t know) did elpeits shots guard break and could she spam it the same as HC?

[@jerichtandoc7789]

@@deabogg don't know much about Elphelt, but it's actually worse for her opponent, as while she has to manually aim her bullets, if she waits a bit, rather than guard crush like HC's steady aim shot, it actually becomes unblockable.

[@Frankentank]

Look mom there I am! Ironically enough Happy Chaos is the one that actually inspired me to make that video.

[@GenericSoda]

I was going to go into a long theorycraft about what Acrsys could potentially do to tweak Chaos, but instead I'm going to appreciate your use of "bugbear" as a descriptor.

[@vilka_shekotki]

The worst thing in my experience against HC is how the FD in this game functions. Due to the fact that to tap FD (to not get completely outrun by HC's resource build and gather at least some of it) you need to tap two buttons at the same time, there is always a chance of kara FD happening. What exactly happens is you press, for instance, P+K with a few frames between them, so the game first registers a P button and it goes on for a few frames and THEN it kara cancels into the FD. This already killed many people trying to flick FD to not spend too much meter due to them eating fat counterhits with the normals they were trying to FD, but HC is the worst in that manner. Because it doesn't matter how good you are, the accidental kara FD WILL happen, and it has a potential of killing you straight away or taking back all of the progress you've made. All for trying to block with FD.

[@cerdi_99]

you can hold one attack button and only press the other one when u want to fd. U can even hold them both and it will fd the moment u move back. Its not very useful generally but against certain characters that u definitely want to just tap fd (ie: HC or GL) it's just what we need to avoid accidental counterhits

[@sendalnya]

@@cerdi_99 could you do IFD too with this method?

[@cerdi_99]

@@sendalnya I don't see why not

[@fatyoshi696]

happy chaos's balancing reminds me of mollo in rivals of aether, his unique mechanic are bombs with various properties that give him tremendous space control, but his problem is that on top of that his normals also have some of the most broken frame data in the game, to the point that you don't even need to know how to use bombs effectively to play him, which makes him extremely good at both zoning and rushdown. This means he has pretty much no losing matchups, making him easily top 2 on launch, and now that more and more bomb tech is being discovered he's even more of a threat, despite having been nerfed twice already in the 2 months he's been out.

[@lotion5238]

good god I hate the hitbox size on the baseball bat, it's as long as he is tall and the back hitbox always links into the stronger one

[@fatyoshi696]

the baseball bat isn't even the worst part imo, the finisher bomb is almost impossible to properly di and it's absolutely terrifying if the mollo player knows how to play around the extra long fuse

[@demiurge2501]

havent played much roa (online at least) since that update. does mollo have any 8-2 or 9-1 MUs? seems uncharacteristic of RoA

[@fatyoshi696]

the workshop 4 that got added recently were all bonkers on launch (except for pomme, she was OK) because they weren't initially designed by the rivals team, the devs have been trying to balance them since launch but they're struggling. pomme is in an okay spot, but mollo and olympia are wreaking havoc as the devs try and figure out how to nerf them, and hodan is being left alone for now to let his meta develop. The biggest war crime character right now isn't even mollo, its olympia, she's essentially the game's SFV Luke, her toolkit is pretty simple but she just has everything, and everything she has is extremely good, and unlike mollo she doesn't even require you to have a brain to play her

[@juniperrodley9843]

Steve in SSBU shares a similar issue, though not to the same extent. He has a lot of really cool tools that you need to use well, but that're extremely strong if you're skilled enough to do that. However, because this is Smash DLC, he also got insanely overtuned stats, granting him better framedata than most rushdown characters, stronger combos than most combo-focused characters, and combo enders that easily beat most super heavyweights in raw killpower (when considering the fact that he can carry you 90% of the way to the blast zone before using them). All that on top of his already amazing space control via blocks, minecart, and anvil (which is, itself, one of his ludicrously strong kill moves). TL;DR zoners aren't supposed to be good at CQC, and close quarters fighters aren't supposed to be good at zoning. So don't make a character good at both.

[@kenamada5451]

I need that song at the start. That was a bop. Actually all the songs.

[@parisatkins32]

The craziest thing about this whole thing is a lot of the time when the community says a character is trash on release they end up being busted😂😂😂

[@joshuareznik9234]

for every busted new character is a garbage one, people said jack-o was trash and now she is still trash. Gold lewis is kinda funny cause everyone thought they'd be broken and here we are

[@parisatkins32]

@@joshuareznik9234 Jackie not trash

[@stolensentience]

I knew no one knew what they were talking about once I saw how his gun functioned

[@z1u512]

@@joshuareznik9234 AND HERE WE ARE 6 MONTHS LATER

[@cylondorado4582]

Reminds me of what NRS was doing a while back. They realised zoning in general was really strong in Injustice 2 because the stages were very wide and zoners built more meter more easily by zoning. So in the next game they made, they completey did away with anything affecting meter gain besides a timer.

[@CrowsofAcheron]

Snk had a good solution to this: Make projectiles give more meter to the opponent when they block, than the zoner gets when they spam. So you can try to lock down the opponent, but you will be meter negative.

[@6j5q42]

As a Nago player, I always thought Happy Chaos was a well-balanced character after I learned the counterplays against him, but I never considered the meter gain for him, making me change my opinion slightly. SFV's recent patch made it so that people who block or get hit by Guile's sonic boom, and sonic boom only, gain more meter on hit on block. Considering Guile play similarly to Happy Chaos in the fact that they can both be great zoners, a similar change to Happy Chaos, where the opponent gains more meter if they get hit by or block any HS move (but except super if that counts)

[@LuckyImpling]

That’s actually really cool to see, cause I thought of the same thing from a character/story perspective. Like he says, “I hope you guys win”, he just wants drama and excitement, so he’d want the opponent to have extra meter so he can see them do cool stuff. I really like when the game mechanics tell you about who a character is. Perfect example Nago with how he’s trying to stick to samurai self-control and not let the vampire thirst take over

[@ginger-sama4020]

Im so glad I found your content hotashi, you play the game in a way that makes me want to talk to people about this game. I'm going to my first tourney this Sunday and I appreciate the fgc so much for giving me this lifestyle.

[@raivin7172]

Good luck bro

[@aganaom1712]

My initial thoughts on tweaking the character generally revolved around slowing down the rate at which he reloads bullets Hearing this argument regarding his meter gain though has given me another thing to consider pretty seriously.

[@ryanj3457]

This is a great video that actually goes in-depth as to the many different things that make Happy Chaos so oppressive.

[@mirror2922]

I think, realistically if we wanted to talk about the best way to reign him in is particular the meter gain. Clearly Hotashi you've been thinking about this in depth and it's a collective amount of factors that make happy chaos the way he is. I think the meter gain can be adjusted a little. I don't know if it has to be a system thing or if they can just nerf the meter gain. I've been watching a couple of videos of zoning and the basic principle is to force them to get to you by offering some measure of threat. In this scenario it would be chip and meter gain for the happy chaos, which is why I think it wouldn't be so bad if happy chaos lost some meter gain. The games aren't comparable but I remember the deep discussions about frieza in dragon ball fighterz that frieza can just zone and not gain any benefit other than wasting time with no true benefit for doing so. I think perhaps the meter gain being altered would make it more "fair" as he is doing the full screen gameplan with just chip as the meaningful reward. It's kind of hard to think in terms of happy chaos since he is incredibly unique and I definitely know while I do find fighting him annoying that unique aspect will only work in his favor or harm him if they do decide to test out changes for the character that's just the food for thought you gave me and I wouldn't know how to go about trying to do it in a successful healthy way.

[@zachculberson4457]

Nice vid! I think your last statement about his game plan falling apart easily is so true. I feel like if I miss a reload or don’t time my clean hit shot correctly just once then I’m screwed. I’m deff not a top tier player lol.

[@redspine2859]

As a game designer, I must respect this acknowledgement of how game design is a different science from player opinion. So often I read the worst takes online, thinking "this person simply does not realize". Mad respect on Hotashi for ' understanding how bias can affect one's judgement.

[@bqing87]

A well crafted, well communicated, and not to mention the quality presentation, gets the auto subscribe and like.

[@kekon3]

I personally feel a bit of this could be resolved with some meter balancing and universal system changes, guard crush is on half the cast to make them consistent but it just ISN'T fun, I still don't understand airblocking making you ultra negative AND pushing you backwards (as in I get it but I still think it coulda been something different)

[@demiurge2501]

goldlewis needs that with the airblocking thing in order to maake his offense viable, but otherwise yeah

[@DrGamersEmporium]

i think the most measured way to nerf the character would be his meter gain. maybe increase the meter you get for blocking him a little too. the fact that he basically doesnt have to stop if executed right seems the main problem. he'd still be a strong character this way

[@fl0wey57]

Honestly, this was very informative, I’ll share with my GGST friends for sure!

[@Time2GoHam1995]

I watched when Hotashi recorded this on twitch and I have to say that this video is amazing. Fantastic job on the editing.

[@Nupeguy16]

These edits are amazing. I really enjoyed the vid.

[@boringinu2077]

The fun part is although he is so good , nobody know how to change him(a least in asia) , once we touch his tool(like guard break/longer reload/meter nerf) will kill him , so i guess 「THIS IS NATURE SACRIFICED」

[@javjuegos_8917]

I mean, there's some things in the video that could be changed and wouldn't kill him, you know like not building 150% meter off blockstrings or being able to whiff punish him and live to tell the tale

[@boringinu2077]

@@javjuegos_8917 Thanks mention it , i'll rewatch again , whiff punish nerf is a good point btw

[@Sestze]

Hyper informative without bias, such a good video. Good job Hotashi!

[@calebmoffett8262]

I have never played GG games in the past but have played most other fighting games,some even early access.. and I bought Strive a 10 months after release. Testing characters out in training mode to decide a character, I did notice am immense number of possibilities right away with his kit, but not wanting to try to master the execution because I was gravitating towards Faust, and Gio for their easier mechanix. I soon got into lobbies against Happy Chaos and quickly discovered there was an issue. The pressure noobs in my floor can put on me is scary. I couldn’t even imagine what a top level HC looked like. Found a few top level matches online and wasn’t at all surprised to see “almost” every matchup struggle to fight. Either through lack of knowledge or lack of options, this character is a problem at all levels of online play.

[@GreatOneJ]

He's definitely manageable for the lower floors, at least in my experience. Like hotashi said, without really good execution, he falls apart. And if you play chaos with really good execution, you're probably not going to be stuck at the lower floors. My tip is look at his bullets and meter. Eventually they mess up the resource management and he's free to go in on.

[@calebmoffett8262]

@@GreatOneJ people at lower floors can’t punish poor execution as well as top players. It feels like I’m trying to storm the damn beach of Normandy against a Nazi with aimbot.

[@M0HAK0]

Hes not that bad at lower level floors.

[@calebmoffett8262]

@@M0HAK0 Define low level? I’m new here and am around floors 6-7 playing USA W and E and Japan. So maybe the ones that I’m considering low level do better than someone on a floor 3-5??

[@jeterpilled_memester]

HOT DAMN THE MAN HOTASHI DROPPING NEN BOMBS WITHIN 5 MINUTES, Too based, liked

[@zacharyhansen8250]

HC zoning tools are just too strong when his curse thing is active. Axl being the resident zoner is fine and balanced because, while he has super long range normals they do have set range and trajectory which makes them avoidable and allows an approach. Projectile based zoning has counters also, most characters have strong enough movement to avoid projectiles and characters that don't have dedicated anti-projectile tools. The problem with Happy chaos is that gun does not have a set trajectory or range, it can hit you anywhere on screen, anti-projectile options do not work against it, HC can still move and attack. Block stun prevents any real movement before you have to stop and block again. Fast characters like chip and Millia still suffer because they can't outpace the reticle with curse active so fast movement doesn't work, leo gets locked in recovery if he backturn blocks it and then gets hit anyway. The only solid approach tools that work against HC zoning is hammer fall and Leo's command normal guard. I don't mind being able to use gun as a combo extender but as a zoning tool it's obnoxious.

[@saaah707]

We should be able to cut the bullet in half or catch it with a properly timed attack. This is anime

[@PR1ME98]

We should get more meter for putting up with that constant barrage of bullets.

[@GothMoth_exe]

giving a character a hitscan gun in a fighting game feels like a risky move to me, but i do hope they can reign in his more abusable strings. he's a cool character and i hope he sticks around in some form!

[@BaronSterling]

It's not hitscan tho. It's just a disjointed hitbox that tracks you. Goldlewis's minigun is much closer to hitscan.

[@GothMoth_exe]

@@BaronSterling "Hitscan is a term that could also be classified as “hit instantly” because it instantly hits the target when shot, meaning that the projectile (bullet, arrow, etc.) does not take time to travel through the air, so the player does not have to lead their target."

[@BaronSterling]

@@GothMoth_exe Yes, if you take one simplification of a description of hitscan and remove it entirely from the context of the FPS discussion it comes from, you could come close to mistaking Happy Chaos's guns for a hitscan weapon. But definitionally, hitscan is a method of handling projectiles from a weapon by drawing a straight line from the weapon to where the user is aiming the weapon, and then checking if anything intersects that line. I.e. "scanning" for a "hit." If you had a weapon in an FPS game that instantly caused an explosion a set distance away from the user, with no regard to any enemies along that travel path (which more accurately describes HC's gun in FPS terms), you wouldn't call that a "hitscan" weapon, even though it would be instant and would not have travel time.

[@GothMoth_exe]

@@BaronSterling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@GothMoth_exe]

@@BaronSterling already explained what I meant so if you want to keep nitpicking and getting mad have fun with the elevated blood pressure 😇

[@SoMuchNoise1]

I think you nailed it when you mentioned "Bullets are not a meaningful resource." I've been thinking that the main issue with steady shot zoning is how sustainable it is since you can always slide in a bullet and be +. (Thank you for pointing out the meter gain, btw. I always assumed he had a ton of meter primarily because of positive bonus) The only thing is there are many many many MANY variables that can be tuned to adjust it. You could adjust the frame advantage of GC Steady Aim, or the frame advantage provided by reload cancelling, you could adjust the number of bullets consumed or the number of bullets that have to be reloaded before Reload is cancellable, so it's really difficult to figure out which part is the right one to tap. My gut instinct change is "Make Steady Shot cost 2 bullets" but seeing the reload advantage go from +20 to +11 makes it feel insignificant for those especially impacted like Nago or Goldlewis while also unintentionally hitting HC's combo potential. It could also be something as simple as "You can't reload in steady shot stance" but that maybe ruins how he feels to play. Very interested to see what AkSys ultimately decides on.

[@BaronSterling]

I personally would just like to see his reload take longer to start up. Just the first bullet, with every other bullet added being the same speed as it is now (or possibly even sped up to keep the same reload time after the first bullet nerf). That way, reloading immediately after each shot and essentially having infinite bullets is much less viable, but reloading in bulk when you get the chance doesn't become riskier in the process.

[@internetmovieguy]

I love this video. God damn Deb’s attempts to justify this character’s zoning. “Just FD in a rhythm” yeah, in a game where we often get a button when trying to FD on wake up.

[@chekerz123456789]

Hold one button and then tap the other button. Boom no more Kara fd. You’re welcome

[@nathandam6415]

If they're going to keep Happy Chaos in the zoning he either needs to take risks when zoning or needs to spend a resource. Spending resources is no problem for Chaos because reload cancels are a cinch and even if they block they get a meter lead. So their opponent just dies from chip once they hit 50% meter. Meanwhile Chaos's gun has no downside on whiff (aside from the obvious resource cost) so you can just anti-air your opponent if they decide to jump. At least Axl players have to worry about jump-ins and dash-ins, and don't have the tools to deal with both at the same time. It's really annoying when the only counter play is just dash blocking until you're close enough to strangle him for putting you through such misery.

[@Uncle_Sunpuppy]

Cool vid, I like the overview and noticed he is a bit of a great at everything, no major weakness character. I don't know WHAT exactly, but I feel like we could tone down his midrange game a bit and do something with the resources to leave the guard crush loop in, but have it have a more definitive cooldown period of sorts. What the specific solutions would look like I'm not sure, but I think keeping the fun close range pressure and the ability to zone a bit is important for the fun and flavor of the character overall.

[@HuevoBendito]

Just based on the video, I think reducing meter gain for HC on blocked attacks and making reload counterable would be a good start.

[@RedlinePostal]

His weakness is not having a DP or reversal super. But he can get a Fullscreen wall break no meter 50% combo off 5P and 2P, which makes him more dangerous under pressure than DPs (need to spend meter to combo) and reversal supers (do 1/3rd of the damage of what happy chaos gets off any normal)

[@MikeNmurdoc]

Tasteful, informative and fun vid. Thanks Lord Hotashi :D

[@roberthotdog5549]

I feel like what ties this all together is curseball being near unavoidable. If it had a worse arc or was slower then you could actually play around his resources. Maybe give him two arcs for grounded or air opponents and make him commit to either so his fullscreen isn't as oppressive

[@bluegrave4376]

A possible fix would be increase how much meter is gained by the opponent when they block his gunshots. If the blocking character even builds a third of what HC builds during a blockstring, fighting him would be a bit more bearable

[@alexanderdenison2950]

Two changes that would make the character way more fair would be drastically reduce meter gain for shooting the gun and if he whiffs a normal he gets locked out of shooting the gun until the normal fully recovers. He already has excellent neutral tools, he doesn't need to be immune to whiff punishment.

[@M0HAK0]

That 2nd change sounds terrible. Why should he be locked out of using his gun for whiffing? That destroys the characters design.

[@lowkeyajax]

@@M0HAK0 how does him not being able to shoot on whiff destroy the design?

[@Dreckerr]

Super sick seeing your own content featured by Lord Hotashi, thanks for the shoutout gamer.

[@TurtleKnite]

Would it completely kill HC zoning if the curseball actually had to hit to apply curse rather than applying curse on hit or block? Like, if they went that route they'd obviously have to change more than JUST that. But if you're full screen and just completely block out, eventually the curse will end and he'll need to land another one before he can do Clean Hit SA zoning.

[@sandalsfgc]

I really like the structure and visual aids in this video, great job bro.

[@Reox8888]

This is some of the best FG content I've seen in years

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

I think the fact that he isn’t in counterhit state while reloading or focus is possibly an easy enough change to drop him down a peg or two. By making those state be counterhit It doesn’t stop him from preforming well. Just makes punishing those chances all the more rewarding. But whether you think that’s good design or not is more based on how “sharp/steep” you want games and specific matchups to be. Do you want 80/20 matchups or 60/40.

[@GreatOneJ]

See I don't like that change because it gives Chaos even less of a reason to go in and allow himself to be countered while reloading. I think his zoning is what they have to nerf

[@Donobro]

he is in counterhit in focus

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

@@Donobro that I did not know. Just assumed so based on Hotsshi saying he wasn’t in reload as well.

[@Lanzetsu]

It is worse, the issue is the counter play against him specially on Curse Jail, giving hime counter state and not being able to even get close is the same as nothing, he already has "sometimes" a hard time when you are over him on pressure, you would only do it even more binary, ultra strong from far away and ultra weak on mid/close range

[@taz9041]

great vid more of this type about a variety of topics would be awesome to see

[@NickJJU]

Send this to ArcSys, they need to see this before they decide on balance changes for season 2

[@rustycrowbar4250]

i think they should just reduce a little the amount of meter the HC gets for landing blocked shots and it should do it

[@juniperrodley9843]

Some other commenters brought up instances in other FGs where blocking a projectile gives the blocker more meter than the attacker. I think that'd be best.

[@dojo45789]

Happy chaos hurts my soul to play but the video on how to fight him by romolla was so helpful

[@felipearango4257]

I'm a certified designer, so my nerf is the following: Take his car away and give him a chevy instead.

[@CatChat240p]

You're really telling me Happy Chaos gets meter from shooting you but Faust can't get any meter from items

[@sleshstamp]

He's also just not fun to fight against at all. I'm not going to pretend like I'm even an average guilty gear player, but being forced to just crouch down and block and be that patient for like 30 minutes whenever you're full screen away just sucks.

[@popedanei]

I want more measured responses.

[@nique7098]

*cracks michelob ultra* *reclines in armchair* well what about sol volcanic viper, what about leo H dp in back turn?

[@laynesarchives1504]

Absolutely loved this video!

[@gcal8263]

This intro editing is tight

[@guitarsoupify]

I really love everything about HC's audiovisual design and I love his gameplay design on paper, it's just that the reality of it isn't fun to play against for me. I don't even really care if he's top 1 in the game as long as it's fun to fight him. I hope arcsys finds a way to make that happen regardless of his strength.

[@dannychoriki1977]

I was gonna say something, but then I read the description and used my brain.

[@garethcf1016]

So what im hearing from this is: You can't whiff punish him The bullet mechanic is worthless He has buttons for everything except blocking Risk reward his heavily skewed in his favour And basically the round is over once he gets a wallbreak unless he screws up?

[@DXYS95]

The bullet mechanic actually gives you some windows to fight back, it would be much worse if HC didn't have to reload at all. You can absolutely whiff punish him, if you're cursed he's outplayed you already and you should be careful. His buttons are really good for specific situations, don't think you can just use them like Ram uses her swords. Besides, the round is pretty much over anytime any character wall breaks you: they get pressure and tons of meter to mix you up, it's not exclusive to HC. This character is extremely good, don't get me wrong. And he has really good matchups even against top tiers (I don't know whether Nago can do anything after round start), that's what makes him a solid pick. But he also requires some amount of execution and this game has failed to reward it so far. So I'm fine with HC being top tier; I wish Zato was as well

[@yousef858]

@@DXYS95 the bullet mechanic gives a good way to fight back against bad HC players, this character is literally breaking tournaments

[@DXYS95]

@@yousef858 "Breaking tournaments" Sure, do you also keep the same energy when Nago cheeses his way through easy wins at round start?

[@garethcf1016]

@@DXYS95 Well, I havent fought a HC since i dont play so often anymore and I would like to keep this civil so correct me if i'm wrong, but from what hotashi is saying in the vid, it seems that he has some guarunteed curse ball setups which would, from my guess, happen very often after a wallbreak or with meter (since meter is often magical like that), and given that it seems that can break the wall off any hit from anywhere on the screen, i would think he can do this pretty often. So basically, it seems to me, from this vid anyway, that one hit, regardless of counterhit, or what starter it is (i think i heard somewhere that he can shoot from p) is all it takes to just lose the round, unless ur pot. and yeah i guess low level HCs would suffer from lack of bullets, but mid level and up it seems to have a minimal effect cos of its plus frames and mindgames with how many bullets u use, especially if he is doing from fullscreen like say, after a hard wall break. And if Romolla's "how to beat HC" vid is anything to go by, meter is absolutely essential when fighting him (against a good HC with full resources u apparently need about 90% meter, 40% to keep him from murdering u via chip, and 50% to deal with the clone) worst case scenario, but since u apparently dont even get 20% if he is zoning u (based on this vid), its probably accurate to assume that the HC probably doesnt need that scenario/level of excecution, so all ur hopes are pinned on round start, except his buttons are really good, so unless ur playing nago ur disadvantaged at round start. But if u do manage to win that ur free to steamroll all u want, watching for when he bursts or yrc. Is that an accurate assessment?

[@garethcf1016]

Damn sry for the really long reply but i really havent fought a HC and i really wanna know what all the crap is about. Also i just got out of an essay assignment and am currently programmed to write and analyze

[@krazyzyko]

Well, what about Sol's volcanic viper? Or Leo's H DP & back turn?

[@prosethh6327]

“What is it that makes happy chaos strong??” Answer: GUN

[@kdawg3484]

Great detailed video. I'm more a fan of the simple description: ArcSys tried a very experimental character, and they f***ed it up. Trying new things is cool, but with little data to build off of, they made him way too powerful and unhindered. It happens, but it needs to be fixed, because HC makes the entire game dreadfully boring.

[@collom]

At a top level I can see how HC is annoying because when he’s pushed to his limit he’s broken. But if a group of casuals made a tier list based on their knowledge of the character, he’d definitely be seen as trash. So balancing is weird in the sense that the majority who try him out give up while those that understand his mechanics, he’s straight up broken.

[@dust_to_dust]

I want all the music you just used in this excellent explanatory video here.

[@raycr27]

3:14 dang that combo

[@Frostedd_]

I would've added to the frame data of the guard crush into the reload how much gap there is for you (the opponent) to do something if happy chaos decides to go for another gunshot, focus or another option, since knowing the plus frames is important, yes, but it is also important what can you do around it. I would like to make an example of this, but sadly I don't play strive lol, but yeah, the gap between his options after reloading is what makes counterplay possible. How much gap there is? I don't know.

[@KingAfrica4]

He’s +20 after a guard crush shot into reload and his steady aim shot has 18F startup and hits frame 1 if you’re cursed so I believe that can be a true string. If you’re not curse it can hit you on frame 9 so about a 7F gap which you can’t really do anything about still.

[@206lbs.hercules5]

@@KingAfrica4 Admittedly that wouldn't be for another clean hit but even then the gap is quite small.

[@Parele1l]

Note: Played HC when he first came out and everyone thought he was shit, stopped before Baiken dropped and they made his reticle ugly. If everyone agrees he is in need of a nerf due to his zoning ability, because I really don't think you can complain about his neutral (I'm looking at you Nago, the top 1 undisputed, at least for while I was playing), then the easy solution is to make the curse ball not bounce, so it must be applied/reapplied only when close. This will make HC players need to be close to you for a time in order to resume said "limitless zoning" for the curse's duration. Trust me, this will be enough. Though I'd prefer some kind of overhaul, cause I love the character, and shall sadly not return to the game seeing all this newfound hate *aimed* his way.

[@angelods417]

Just dont go on Twitter mate. Play who you like and fudge what people think.

[@izanagiorochi6324]

Happy Chaos is objectively broken that's for sure,but I'm always against Nerfs,I think the goal should be to bring the rest of the roster to HC level

[@EnderOfLight]

TBH I still feel that the only nerf that would be needed on Happy Chaos is just taking away the Guard Crush from his steady aim. Removing anything else would just mean less options / things to do that aren't completely obnoxious to fight against. I am fine with a character being top 1, so I don't think ridiculous nerfs should ever be necessary, but then again, the Guard Crush just actually makes him obnoxious to fight. For a Full-Screen zoning tool, its pretty dumb that the move is that plus on block. And as this video basically shows, Happy Chaos would still be good without it.

[@stolensentience]

Strive suffers from the same shit as it always has: damage is too high for how consistently easy it is to execute. And making characters with hitscan GUNS in a fg is just a recipe for unbalanceable. But yeah, what made GG compelling was the difficulty in running a perfect complex offense. And with that out the window, strive just isn’t fun after a month of playing it unless you’re stroking the top tier and the type to enjoy winning just cuz

[@silvera1886]

When hotashi called HC a specialist nen user i instinctively started game posturing

[@andrewrubesa8227]

This was great. If I can make one polite suggestion, the music mix is a little loud and it drowns you out a bit/distracting. But, maybe I’m just an old man…regardless, great to hear your insight.

[@L0rdMathias]

HC and Testament should've had their curses swapped. HC should not have charge shot, and the curse pop effect should be "next shot is a charged shot". Testament curse should be a thing you're trying to land so you can enhance power for a period of time, like while they're stained you have access to "crow specials" which is a watered down version of the +R curse movelist.

[@monsieurbidule9064]

thank you so much for going only over facts, this is very helpful for the hot topic this character is.

[@cronosdimitri4584]

i accidentally fatfingered the dislike button and quickly liked the video to correct my wrongdoings but youtube still said that my feedback was sent to the video author. I hope the feedback is that this content is amazing. We want more!

[@pedroxavier4227]

Ok so, my HC fix is to 1. No tension gain on gun shots 2. Change the arch on curse ball

[@M0HAK0]

That second change is not necessary.

[@mushmak]

The happy chaos meter gain reminds me of the ram "infinite" corner pressure video that showed up earlier in the games life. Offense gives you so much more than defending. So if you can run an offense full screen then well Player 2 is sol I guess

[@Trigun_Bebop]

I think it would be easy and tempting for a Nago player to make a video complaining about HC. But I appreciate how Hotashi instead just explained the facts. Classy.

[@theworldsgreatestjidiot9667]

At least he's lore accurate

[@deddrz2549]

I think not gaining meter on blocked bullets could be a good balance change.

[@checkhimDP]

slightly lower the bg music (-3 or more db) and this video's perfect.

[@YemYum]

Not being a game designer dosent mean the opinion is worth less. Game designers make games for us, so the feedback we give is way more important than what the game designer thinks. Also what does being Japanese have to do with criticizing a character in ggst?

[@magillagorilla57]

All I'm saying is HC is The Original after all. Dude changed the world and have entire cults based off of his teaching. He should be pretty good.

[@figureitout2973]

My only thing is guard crush being such a strong mechanic that is basically free for him and full screen at that I know pot is a meme but at least he has to get close HC can do it from anywhere

[@hyperlink6547]

Regarding the bullets as a resource, i definitely think that maybe the animation could be a bit slower, but i think as a concept the bullets as a resource seem more like something to stop combos from going crazy, and that if they arent spending time to reload they eventually trip over themselves trying to shoot without any ammo. i think as you said the focus meter is more what is trying to keep his pressure in check. now on a seperate note I wish ammo as a resource was how most games did gun using characters, but so few actually treat the gun like a gun. more like a fancy limb that travels real fast, and that annoys me. A gun has 3 properties, A) Bullets are fast, and extremely hard to react to B) if you dont aim properly you miss, due to the speed of a bullet once you pull the trigger if you didnt hit in that fraction of a second, you missed. its not gonna stay in mid-air C) *guns can only have so many bullets in them at once* an 8 shot revolver cant shoot 13 shots without reloading. its just physically cant, unless your bullets are made of magic. If your gun IS shooting magic and has no ammo count, then its a glorified wand so treat it like a wand. It just irks me that almost every single fighting game with a character that uses guns doesnt explore the possibilities that bullets as a resource can bring, and very few really implement the aiming portion, rather they just make it shoot in a straight line.

[@miraclescs6762]

Excellent video. Very well structured. Also, can we get a list of the music used?

[@1fareast14]

Decrease tracking speed of reticle so that opponent's movement lets then dodge shots? Steady aim becomes regular speed, and regular only for those sitting still? A special move allows steering if the reticle if HC sits still?

[@dorkasaurus_rex]

Just wanna say really good music choices and nice guide. That's all! Good video 👍

[@bt_11]

Commenting so more people see this clear explanation of HC's many strengths

[@cymtastique]

If the bullets were more like magic projectiles where you could actually choose to dodge or block them, I think he'd be more interactive instead of playing red light, green light. I feel like because at almost any point he can just switch your approach for you, he just kinda...controls too much of the game. That's just my opinion.

[@UhScout]

I've never watched any of your vids before, but I really dig the editing and the way you crafted your discussion in a way that doesn't allow for bad faith arguments about how unfun the character is to fight Good video!

[@MissIceMateria]

Peacock broke free from Skullgirls to torment another series. >: ) For those that don't know, imagine Happy Chaos with more 5-way mixups and a reversal.

[@affegpus4195]

Thank you for the sane video

[@primalaspid2972]

Very informative video thank you

[@TOF2485]

I remember Deadshot on injustice 2.

[@superspecialspacesouprare1353]

Great video, now I realize that nerfing HC (or any character for that matter) is not an easy task.