When Torchwood Said 'We Live in a Society'

[@HarboWholmes]

Sign up to my Patreon to live in a society: www.patreon.com/harbowholmes

[@johngreen8344]

Oh hey there! Fancy meeting you here!

[@bmvthemoviefanatic7282]

I didn't realise Mickey wrote this episode. That last thing you said about how Noel might have applied his experience playing Mickey to write Rhys is kind of eye-opening, as I always noticed the similarities between the two characters. However while Rose and Mickey fell apart hard, Gwen and Rhys' relationship just gets stronger.

[@chtholly8084]

This is less 'we live in a society' and more 'reject humanity, embrace monke'.

[@LLT8]

Monke

[@blobfish5730]

I just watch the episode for that Jellied Eels advert.

[@DanTheMan2150AD]

Combat is very much an underrated episode, it’s a great exploration into Owen's grief and perfectly sets up his arc in Series 2. Also Rhys is very much a chad in this episode.

[@johngreen8344]

It's getting increasingly more difficult to see the word Chad, without instantly seeing Yu Narukami sauntering in.

[@243CJ]

@@johngreen8344 literally to the point you don't even have to watch the anime at all. You just see it everywhere.

[@johngreen8344]

@@243CJ That said, I just bought a PS Vita just so I could play P4 Golden on it. Sad bit is, I ordered it the day before the article published.

[@243CJ]

@@johngreen8344 nooooooooOOO, I'm so sorry

[@johngreen8344]

@@243CJ Somehow it was the most perfectly timed disaster I've ever had. I've been frantically scrabbling to find a way to save my movies on PS Video, but short of downloading them to the phone app, I'm stumped. I'm not sure how long the app will last for, so I'm keeping mu fingers crossed that I can find a PS3/Vita solution that'll save them before everything gets taken down.

[@ToxinWolffe]

Money can't buy you happiness, but I'd rather cry in a Ferrari.

[@jakehodgson443]

Words to live by 😂

[@PwnZombie]

Lol’d

[@jeckjeck3119]

Gwen eating Pizza and crying... Why is it so relatable?

[@lucypreece7581]

I was literally about to comment this. It is a mood

[@frazzlesreviews5379]

This episode teaches us that society is the friends we made along the way...

[@Alia-bc3rc]

I might be on the minority here, but I like Gwen's depiction as an unlikeable character rather than becoming the pure bleeding heart of Torchwood. Her affair with Owen is totally wrong but make sense somehow. The peak where she retconned Rhys and ended up breaking down over a pizza, I think that's one of the "best" scene for the character. But I agree wholeheartedly about Gwen never taken into account about her selfishness. Owen got his redemption arc and actually be a better human, but Gwen's entire mistakes just swept under the rug, as if all her heroic stories could wash away everything wrong she'd done to others, particularly Rhys. It's like her sex affair(s) are just being there to over-emphasize how Torchwood iS nOT fOr kiDs.

[@caitlinb35]

I agree; I think that Gwen's flaws, especially in regards to her relationship, make her a grittier character that isn't just the "empathetic one". As much as the affair makes her unlikable, I don't detest her for it, it was an interesting decision writing wise. The problem is that the whole cheating plot was a great springboard to explore how Torchwood changed her and her morality, but it's never really capitalized on the way is should be, and her flaws are never outright addressed or redeemed, as opposed to Owen.

[@rosiehawtrey]

I wish she'd retconned Barry Backstory with a Remington 870. The Welsh Captain Darling - even at the top of his game he's a walking plot point.

[@zionleach3001]

Yeah I kinda feel bad for Rhys. He isn't exactly a jerk. He's just not aware of what she actually does.

[@PlanetNateGaming]

I've always considered Owen the secondary protagonist as a lot of episodes centre around him, Ghost Machine, Out Of Time,Combat,Dead Man Walking,A Day In The Death and Exit Wounds, at least a quarter of series 1 and 2 centre around him "I'm going to show you that sometimes, just sometimes you can beat death" Next episode: "My friends think i'm fine....but the truth is I'm not" Owen is one of the best Whoniverse characters

[@IslaDrummond]

OH THE FIGHT CLUB EPISODE. That's what I think of it as. Sorry I'm like 60 seconds into the video and that's how long it took me to remember this episode existed (I've rewatched this show many times so that's quite long)

[@the-oncomingstorm]

We live in a society, where Series 11 is a distant memory.

[@BambiTrout]

Series 11 stuck with me so little that it was a distant memory even while I was watching it.

[@smuu1996]

@@BambiTrout it's a way of escaping the very fabric of our reality, which seems to have been the main reason for series 11's production in the first place

[@BambiTrout]

@@smuu1996 Escaping reality through a state of utter boredom?! Has Chibnall inadvertently cracked the code for interdimensional travel?! Someone alert NASA!

[@creed8712]

@@smuu1996 it was so escaped from reality we got things like future racist and not-Orange man.

[@toast99bubbles]

Rhys is too good for Gwen. Apart from Andy, Rhys is one of my favourite characters. Andy is just one step higher, especially now he's a companion to the Doctor.

[@Ven1Vid1Vici]

I'm not too knowledgeable about the expanded Torchwood stories (audio dramas etc). When did Andy become a companion to the Doctor? That sounds pretty interesting.

[@toast99bubbles]

@@Ven1Vid1Vici It was in an 8th Doctor set of adventures. Last June he appeared in Stranded 1 as a "Torchwood liaison" with someone who lives in a flat owned by the Doctor, who is also linked with Torchwood. Stranded 2 came out last month and had him travelling with the Doctor. After some of the stuff he has been through in Torchwood audios (mostly the Aliens Among Us and God Among Us stuff, which Stranded comes directly after) he deserves a bit of time away from Cardiff for a break.

[@Ven1Vid1Vici]

@@toast99bubbles That's so cool! I'm so glad he finally gets some adventure in time and space especially with 8. What a great combo.

[@toast99bubbles]

@@Ven1Vid1Vici Sorry I was being really vague with my reply. You said you didn't know a huge amount about eu Torchwood stuff, so I didn't want to spoil it for you, in case you do choose to experience it some day. Even in the TV show though, Andy is just so nice. Especially in CoE and Miracle Day, so I'm glad to find someone else who appreciates Andy.

[@Ven1Vid1Vici]

@@toast99bubbles Don't worry about it! I don't mind a spoiler here and there. Andy must be protected at all costs!

[@jw4499]

It's funny you mentioned Hustle, as the acter who played Mark, also played the teams mark in Hustle 😊

[@connorchenery977]

5:02 ah yes Jack harkeness master of stealth, hiding behind a chain link fence

[@georgeward6727]

DID THEY FIND HIM THOUGH? EUGH TOXI FAN

[@meowdolfkitler1095]

I'm so happy the first few minutes were just bashing gwen, I genuinely hated her in season 1, but my friends who'd watched the series seemed to forget how unlikeable she was in season 1, genuinely frustrated me

[@christianwise637]

To be fair this might be because Gwen is written to be more likeable in later series, so this might colour people's memories of the character. But yes, she's extremely unlikeable in the first series, to the point that I was surprised that Owen got way more hate than she did

[@danm3882]

I don’t think Noel Clarke gets enough credit for this episode!

[@manofmeat9881]

This aged like milk.....

[@patriksjorgensen]

@@manofmeat9881 Yeah......

[@danm3882]

Yeah. I have nothing to say! I’m surprised he didn’t write the sex gas episode.

[@georgeguilfoyle6847]

@@manofmeat9881 not really no matter what he does he can still get credit for what he does good despite this episode being a bad fight club rip off🤣

[@frde2190]

He shouldn’t get any credit now

[@Josh-ze6xo]

Did not know Noel Clarke was a writer

[@lucypreece7581]

He wrote and starred in a trilogy of films. Kidulthood, Adulthood and Brotherhood

[@itzimperiumxvi2620]

@@lucypreece7581 so he likes hoods

[@kaykutcher2103]

@@lucypreece7581 Still wondering about the long awaited sequel Neighbourhood.

[@matsimpson6491]

Finally, someone else likes Hustle!

[@danm3882]

It’s so underrated! Absoutely love Hustle.

[@1972LittleC]

Great series, so I'm a bit shocked it's not that well liked apparently. (Dutch btw)

[@izzyisbored3225]

i honestly thought that barely anyone watched it but everyone watched it does that make sense?

[@Domisbeast]

Harbo dropping that f-bomb 😱😱

[@HarboWholmes]

Gotta be edgy like Torchwood 😎

[@lucypreece7581]

Ok so remember how I noticed the episode Greeks Baring Gifts shows an example of coercive control? well I feel this episode shows an example of radicalisation. Because Owen is in a fragile emotional state after Diane leaving him he is vulnerable and while he knows what these people are doing is wrong and causes a lot of harm to the Weevils he still goes into the cage. He has become disenfranchised with Torchwood making him easy to manipulate. The businessman uses this to brainwash Owen into his way of thinking. It then takes something extreme for Own to snap out of it and come back to reality and overcome the ideology of the Weevil fight club guy. These subtle undertones that people may not realise that run through these episodes is very very clever and unless you have knowledge about these topics and know the signs to look for you don't see it.

[@johannvongenerico9487]

Hustle was my first lockdown binge since it was all on iplayer and it had been a long time since I watched it, nice to see parallels

[@ItsConnor]

YOO it would be so cool if you analysed Hustle in the future, it's such an underrated show.

[@carysking1370]

hustle-type scenes hit different

[@LeandraF109]

Nice, might be one of the best episodes, one of the grittiest at least

[@JOCoStudio1]

'Well bundle a weevil into your wight van and step into the cage'- gotta be the best let's get into it line I've heard

[@bluesceptre260]

Maybe it's just because I'm a depressed edge lord but this episode hit really close to home. I think a lot of people feel the same way as those guys in the fight club, not just the rich. People have lost meaning, they don't have the same advantages elder generations had. I could easily see how people would be driven to such activities because they feel so lost and hopeless like nothing matters. Torchwood does these deep episodes really well, I think this was one of it's best episodes.

[@johngreen8344]

Settle in lads, we're in for a fun time tonight!

[@leonardo.976]

This Is Probably My Favourite Episode of Series 1 of Torchwood. So Underrated!

[@mathieuleader8601]

Considering it is apparent that the Weevils are an offshoot of humanity and that Torchwood was Chibnall's baby the much panned episode Orphan 55 would have been majority improved that if on the polluted Earth mankind had evolved into Torchwoods iconic Weevils

[@cameronmonaghan6883]

I rather that the weevils are just a weird alien race that no one really knows (or cares) where they're from

[@nytesla_punk3327]

They're wearing boiler suits, so I always imagine they're either alien or badly damaged once-humans. Kinda like SCPS

[@Jaeden_Phoenix]

We live in a society where living in a society is a meme.

[@bombsite1847]

Poundshop Fight Club

[@waabuje]

I think this is one of my favourite episodes

[@genevievemccluer7503]

I love Hustle so much. I was not expecting someone referencing it.

[@Albrett]

This is one of my favourites.

[@-haclong2366]

I always thought the ending was not entertaining and predictable, but when articulated like this I can kind of understand it, doesn't make me ljke it.

[@VixOfAllTrades]

Another great video. Loving your work, as Torchwood is one of my favourite series ever (another one, is The Almighty Johnsons, highly underated, loads of layers)... In fact I'm gonna give it a rewatch now. Nice job dude.

[@obi501]

Goddamn your titles are on point

[@garysimmons4323]

I am going to start rewatching the show now, thanks to these great reviews. And Harbo drops an F bomb!. Keep up the fantastic work Harbo.

[@tomcat3360]

I just ordered the blu ray Season 1/2 and I can’t wait to revisit these episodes.

[@tpfang56]

Owen had more sexual tension with Mark than any of the women on the show. Was expecting them to make out at least once.

[@killerkelds2994]

Keep up the good work my dude

[@marsmartin]

Gwen's a total sociopath for much of the first season. Would have been fine to explore that, the way Owen had an arc (this episode being part of that), but the show works way too hard to try and force the audience to forgive her. Biggest problem with the show was this, as it made Jack look like a bit of an idiot sometimes the way he treats her differently to the others, and their weird 'special friendship' thing was so SO uncomfortable as it never felt earned.

[@entertain7us148]

sociopath is very extreme...

[@Gengu]

Torchwood is a society

[@dumbdude3103]

I forgot this episode existed

[@orangepizzaparty688]

*I live in a society*

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

Honestly, if I were Jack, I would have fired Gwen after what she did to Rhys. That's a massive abuse of power.

[@nytesla_punk3327]

Unfortunately there is a relationship between Jack and Gwen, so he wouldn't have done that anyway.

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

@@nytesla_punk3327 That's problematic as is. And even then, as I said, that's what I would do in his place.

[@rudenotginger123]

This is one of my favourite episodes

[@tatianamelendez490]

I never liked Gwen to begin with, but I remember that this episode cemented my utter hatred of her for the rest of the show's run. I wanted her to die in several episodes and was sad when she didn't, even though I knew she wouldn't since she's the protagonist. Rhys absolutely deserved better than her, and I'm glad Owen called off the affair. Ps: Now I'm starting to notice how often Jack and Ianto are put together in episodes this series... interesting. 😎🤓🧐

[@kilobravo3533]

16:58 I see that Harbo has good music taste

[@philipwilliams750]

This episode is so much better than Countrycide.

[@zionleach3001]

I'm halfway way through season 1. I'm honestly enjoying it. I was always a fan of shows like Primeval and X files. I just feel bad for the Torchwood Cardiff team. All they've seen is Weevils and horrific stuff. But one thing I don't get. Where do the Weevils get thier boiler suits from?

[@libbyford6765]

I am really looking forward to hopefully an in-depth look at the the perfect couple that is jack & ianto !

[@marsmartin]

I'd watch this. A comparison between Jack and Ianto in the show (eek), versus Jack and Ianto in the BBC and Big Finish audio stories that came out after the show (stunning), is something I kind of crave.

[@callielevkin7071]

That other guy in combat was a knight in Robin Hood 😂

[@demelzawalkden5688]

Sorry Harbo but my skin crawls when a bloke says a woman is "being unlikeable"

[@nytesla_punk3327]

As a woman, I believe Gwen is unlikeable.

[@lateralhistory]

Baffled that someone could hate Gwen and yet defend Owen. I don't think Gwen's behavior is any worse than Owen's to be honest. Just because Owen is willing to die and Gwen draws the line at sobbing into her pizza, doesn't make his actions any more forgivable than hers. We even see Owen using alien artifacts to get women to sleep with him early in the season, an action which is at least as morally suspect as Gwen drugging Rhys. They're two peas in a pod. (Or, a Cardiff hotel room.) I also find it really hard to have pity for Owen in episodes like this. With Gwen, I'm shouting at the screen "IF YOU WANT TO SHAG SOMEONE ELSE, THEN BE A DECENT PERSON AND DUMP RHYS FIRST!" But with Owen I just think "You feel empty? Oh boohoo mate! Let me break out the world's smallest violin." Seriously. The solution to Owen's "problem" is obvious. Stop pulling grimdark shit like cage-wrestling with Weevils, and just live a less empty life! Invest in your friendships, do something selfless for once, and stop being so cynical about everything! You don't need some manic pixie air pilot to teach you how to be a good person. You could just try doing it on your own? Even his reactions in this episode are unbearable. He briefly dated a woman and she left him. The level of rage he feels about this is really weird. Yes, she was the first woman you viewed as a fully-fledged human being and she left you, and you're sad about it. But she didn't owe you a relationship. She barely even knew you! Get over it, and take the positives with you to your next relationship. Like an adult! This is why I struggle to warm to any of the characters in Torchwood. They're all just so whiny and unlikeable, and blame everyone around them for their personal problems. Even someone like Tosh is too busy feeling bad about how other people see her to actually try and change it! They're like teenagers, hanging out in their dank little basement screaming "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME MOM!!!" when someone asks them to clean up their own damn mess. You watch it as an adult wondering why they can't just get over themselves already.

[@disben7156]

What is the first rule of the weevil fight club?

[@stephjovi]

Don't ask what a Weevil is?! Don't talk about Weevil fight club is rule 2

[@threebadgersinatrenchcoat7957]

Take off your shoes when your inside

[@jmace2424]

Weevils wobble but they don’t fall down.

[@dylannoneyabiz2426]

torchwood may have said it, but they said it well

[@iamliberator1101]

I'm sensing a lot of emotion when you are describing Gwens affair and Reese. Have you experienced something similar ?

[@Dr3Mc3Ninja]

I have always loved this episode. Weevils are terrifying.

[@krustykrabmeat6881]

I feel like Owen is a bit dramatic, like calm down you know

[@CineScarborough]

Great episode in my view. My only complaint is Owen deciding to get into the cage happens too quick.

[@sophiejones7727]

For me this episode was the highlight of series 1, but I guess that was partly my mindset at the time. I was going through a pretty dark time in my life when Torchwood was airing. So I really sympathized with Owen throughout, and especially here. Also, I think this episode is undervalued because it is very philosophical and poetical. Quite understandably, I think a lot of people were just confused by it. Owen and Mark are both well educated men, and realistically enough they both paraphrase philosophers without any explanation. The problem is, Clarke is assuming a his audience understands this philosophy too: which isn’t really warranted. It’s a small mistake any neophyte writer would make (and it’s obviously a less bad mistake than insulting the audience’s intelligence), but I do think it has had a big impact on how people view the episode. I can totally see really disliking this episode if you had no idea what those two characters were talking about most of the time.

[@rosiehawtrey]

Hon, most people think a philosopher is an incidental character in Harry Potter - they have to mentally change down to manage three syllables. Don't let it get you down.

[@lewiskazinsky7334]

I think the problem was that Clarke’s youth was embarrassingly visible. The dialogue reads like a postgrad who’s just watched Fight Club for the first time and suddenly feels vindicated. It’s faux deep - using a lot of words to not say anything new. Which is really weird, because Clarke’s other work is extremely thoughtful with very little dialogue. I definitely think Combat was him getting a load off his chest. There’s some great ideas buried beneath an avalanche of clunky execution.

[@sillyclownlady]

Watched this after the April Fool's day special and it's hard to convince my mind that Harbo is being serious.

[@xenon8117]

Reading these comments it seems like nobody likes Gwen. Am I about the only one that does like her?

[@lukemcellin8736]

Just give rhys some beans and he will be happy

[@littlered6340]

Gwen honestly is why I never finished the show. I couldn't deal with what a terrible person she was. I'm glad this series exists so I can learn what happened in Torchwood without having to watch Gwen torture a man she is pretending to love.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Is it just me or is that Mark character just so hot? Like, in a kinda of estate-agent d-bag kinda hot way? hahaha Handsome but kinda slimey lol I need help xD

[@bloodyneptune]

I don't personally think hes hot. But the "do you find X hot in a [insert reasons nobody should find someone hot] way? I need help lol" part is an entire mood, I get you.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@bloodyneptune IKR! I guess I haven't grown out of liking bad boys yet lol Well, sometimes, terrible boys... like horrible guys I should really stay away from but like... ugh... WTF is wrong with me?! haha

[@RobertShippey]

Estate agent dbag hot 😂 that’s so specific but accurate

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@RobertShippey IKR! :D

[@joshuajames6898]

Was totally expecting him and Owen to get romantic at least.

[@bryngoldsmith1848]

It’s basically fight club

[@nightowl8477]

I always thought it was about toxic masculinity. Is that not the case? I'm getting American Psycho vibes. Pretty overplayed theme now I know, but good for 2006.

[@FrumiousMing8]

Don't talk about Fight Club!

[@oxenford539]

2:48 - gwen is ALWAYS hateable. the single most loathesome character in the doctor who universe. save perhaps the daleks. but she's easily top 5 worst.

[@RobTFilms]

Elton Pope and Rodrick? ? ?

[@evecampbell7945]

better than fight club

[@jackjordan5833]

I agree that the way Gwen manipulates Reece and plays with his emotions. But I think Gwen is hated on wayyy too much opposed to Owen. Gwen cheats on her boyfriend - Owen sexually assaults people. It's not that I like Gwen but I think the strong dislike of her among fans plays on the trope of hating the women in shows who cheat on their partners. The 'skyler' architype, from breaking bad.

[@caitlinb35]

I think part of the reason Owen gets more slack than Gwen is because he goes through a massive redemption arc, that involves him getting a lot of comeuppance for his actions (in the form of him having something emotionally devastating happen to him every 3 episodes). He has some really, seriously great development and backstory that justifies rooting for him. Owen can be a real jerk, but there is a lot of complexity to his character and actions. While I agree a lot of the hatred towards Gwen is often overwhelming and unnecessary, she doesn't get any serious comeuppance for her behavior and the show fails to acknowledge her flaws in any meaningful way, which is frustrating to watch. So even if her behavior pales in comparison to Owen, Owen is much better written as a character and his flaws are more acceptable because of his long and hard-earned redemption. That may explain the difference in reaction to each character and their mistakes/flaws.

[@jackjordan5833]

@@caitlinb35 Yeah I totally agree. Owen is truly well written.

[@Zero-4793]

Gwen was a good audience surrogate to begin with, but i really hated her persistance, she was a terrible character and made torchwood less enjoyable as time went on. In later seasons when others died, why couldnt she have swapped out for Janto, or Owen, or Tosh. They were all better. Qwen gets on my nerves. an awkward character that i just dont vibe with, that has also done this horrible things. i wish she left after season 1

[@isabellaearnhardt6380]

💗

[@jmace2424]

Come on, Mark, just go to some therapy groups instead!

[@jackjordan5833]

Noel Clarke for showrunner...

[@xenon8117]

Still want that now?

[@jackjordan5833]

@@xenon8117 nope 👎😞😬

[@CineScarborough]

This aged badly.

[@jackjordan5833]

Tell me about it 😬

[@LukSter18998]

mmmm Spicy

[@displayname9538]

This is one of my least favourite episodes of Torchwood and now knowing it was written by Noel Clarke... ew

[@Sophia-hc4th]

not liking the gwen hate from this video..

[@jedwisner6038]

I liked it's commentary on the patriarchy.

[@saviorbob]

Gamer.

[@NeroLeMorte]

This is what ahs cult should have been

[@ChenShaham]

spoiler warnings would be appreciated...

[@dylannoneyabiz2426]

Mark read fight club and thought Tyler was the hero not the villain. Change my mind

[@threebadgersinatrenchcoat7957]

Mark watching American psycho: Wow! Patrick Bateman is so cool, I want to be just like him.

[@vickyotters9207]

A, B, 💿, E, F

[@mod321]

coment 10 (:

[@entertain7us148]

um... 'gwen is hateable in this scene' and the line you use to exemplify that is when rhys yells and swears at her? even if your partner is cheating, that doesn't give you the right to use abusive language with them

[@IdazmoTV]

What.

[@nytesla_punk3327]

He's rightfully angry

[@tophatnottoefat]

he "uses abusive language" by... yelling and swearing? after she gas been refusing to spend any time with him and not being open about her life after he was very patient and bringing strangers into their home and after cheating on him? yeah, he absolutely has a right to swear and yell

[@SuperRandoms.]

669th like