HARD START CAPACITOR RELAY HVAC- BE AWARE!!!

GUYS BE AWARE OF SUPCO HARD START RELAY KIT!
The ones with Solid State (PTC) relay..the mechanical relay is better and last longer example Supco MPR5.
HERE IS A GOOD ARTICLE TO READ:
www.achrnews.c...
Note:
Disclaimer:
I am not associated with any company to talk bad about this manufacturer but my statements are solely based on my experience and what i have learned from my local techs. i may be incorrect so please only take my comments as an opinion and not facts. This was just my experience that i have shared.
i am not liable for any damages to anyones equipment or image of the company.i am not liable to pay any money to anyone regarding my opinion on this item.

[@arthouston7361]

I don't think any service tech who has been doing this more than a year or two would expect an actual "relay" inside the cap. It is a cheap device for cheap customers. Caveat emptor.

[@HowToDoitright]

Agree however there are many home owners and DIYers too who don’t do this for a living and internet is filled with recommendation of this device which can harm their unit. So it’s an educational info for everyone :)

[@johndough23]

Wouldn't any discussion of this appliance be dependent on the temps the unit will face in use? the "relay" is temperature dependent correct? I assume if used in a hot climate this thing will fail. I have one of these with an actual relay (another brand) and it seems to be failing in my desert location. It does the opposite of everything claimed by the sales pitch it would address. The only benefit seen is a slightly lower electrical bill.

[@beeroy26]

I purchased and installed a "relay" style hard start. Was installed for about a month a failed. I'm assuming it staying stuck on and it blew up. The only way I knew was cause I got off a night shift and my house was hot! Had to go out at 6am after a 12hr shift and remove the hard start and my ac started working again....Yes it was installed correctly correctly sized for my 3ton hvac unit...They both can fail but are designed to fail safely.

[@arthouston7361]

@@beeroy26 IMHO, based on my own experience as a tech... the only true "relay hard start" is a device that uses the individual components, including a relay listed for the particular model compressor, and not simply "three ton." You can't match the pickup voltage by saying "three ton."

[@arthouston7361]

@@johndough23 No, not temp dependent. The potential relay is pickup voltage dependent, as the name "potential" implies. Potential is an alternate term for voltage. It is matched by using a chart showing which model relay can be used with which model compressor. The capacitor can also be specified. It is worth noting that years ago nearly every single phase condensing unit used start components, and they were eliminated to help compete on price in the marketplace.

[@troyyarbrough]

Been using the SPP6 for 2 years in a GE 6000 btu window unit. I installed it so I could run my ac off a 2000 watt inverter generator during power outages. I've never have had a single problem with it.

[@michaelbrinks8089]

Thanks for the comment, I hope/assume that if it does fail it won't damage the damage AC & would just have to be removed......I'm also thinking one could just buy or scrounge up a free bigger window AC capacitor that come in the more expensive 5-6,000 btu units that don't have hard start problems because it comes from factory with a bigger capacitor. If my capacitor is still good in my old 6,000btu Goldstar then putting it in my new cheap 5,000 btu AC should fix the hard start problem. Or I'll just buy a new identical capacitor like it since the Goldstar didn't have hard start issues from using a smaller cheaper capacitor.

[@ANDYGONZALES]

Absolutely, always replace starting components with oem or aftermarket parts w/same values. The supco hard start kit is a Temporary fix until the tech finds the right relay. I've been using them for the last 20yrs and found no issues. Each kit is clearly labeled for the HP rating.. Great for household appliances.

[@richardgoff6739]

I had my built-in relay hard start kit in my air conditioner for about a year. During the yearly maintenance, the tech found that the top had separated and the thermistor was a crumbling piece of ceramic. I no longer trust them for long term service. I finally broke down and installed the Easy Start soft starts...the air conditioners start up smooth and very quiet. Costly but reliable...like most things (you get what you pay for).

[@ralphbenthall3573]

Actully put one on when I worker at electrical place in 89 or 90. It was a 1978 kenmore window unit still in it and the ac unit still works from 1978. Good ac (8000)

[@HowToDoitright]

Yes back in 1978 things made we’re strong. I wish it was the same case now a days but unfortunately quality isn’t the same.

[@pmh1nic]

One popular manufacturer states their relays are design to operate for more than >100000 operating cycles (I'm pretty familiar with this manufacturer and the 100000 is probably very conservative). At 4 cycles per hour thats 96 per day so 100000 cycles would be 1,041 days of continuous operation. This is about the same as a standard mechanical relay based on the information I could find.

[@johndoe-gn6nk]

I have to disagree, I placed one 12 years ago and my heat pump unit is still working

[@HowToDoitright]

Sir you can disagree all you want but I just stated the fact about this particular device. These don’t do any good on unit which are working fine. If these really elongated the life or made unit efficient then manufacturers have installed these in every unit out there but infact they void warranties if these are installed in newer units. If you really get into understanding how they work than you will understand that all they do is change the phase shift angle of current which helps in kickstarting a weak compressor so yes they are good for making an old weak compressor run but not efficient and good for every compressor.

[@Mike-01234]

​@@HowToDoitright kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpe0c5iwYqp4Y9k

[@Jon-hx7pe]

these have a place - a cheap fix for aging compressors that are having trouble starting when the run cap is good and voltage normal.

[@nightone9720]

This was so great video but remember it's all about emergency quick repair for an after hours midnight service call. It's great for it's intended purpose which is to get the system operating until you can get the OEM starting components.

[@HowToDoitright]

Totally agree!!!

[@maynardr6]

All the ptc relays I have seen failed open not shorted. I’m not sure it’s even possible. Also never heard of super boost hurting anything. The one downside I know is they can’t handle short cycling.

[@vinhpham8363]

You are correct.

[@WarrenAllely]

Yeah. I can't imagine how a thermistor could fail shorted.

[@adamkinsey3139]

Can you please provide some evidence or any information as to why a solid state device with no moving parts like a PTC thermistor would be LESS reliable than a mechanical device like a relay? You state it repeatedly, but as an engineer (MSEE), I have no idea why this would be the case. In nearly all electronic applications today, engineers have moved away from failure-prone old mechanical relays to much more reliable solid state relays (power transistors and the like) Please state evidence to back up your assertions.

[@viper454545]

Ha, I don't think you will get a response. So many uneducated folks "educating" the public on youtube. I would be curious to get your opinion?? I am also an engineer and at least in my experience, most resistors have an 'open' failure mode, which is ideal. I have dealt with stuck relays but I have also personally witnessed a run cap short out and take the motor winding with it. Very frustrating as they use the cap as a current limiting device with no over current protection. In any case, I am just getting ready to try a start cap on my RV AC compressor to see if I can get a clean startup on a generator. I am trying to decide on a style and possible protection circuit. this is not a dying compressor, just needs help to get started on the genny.

[@macelius]

@@viper454545 "But, but, if it costs more it must be better!"

[@THEFERMANATOR]

My airtemp heat pump unit used a ptc straight from the factory. So much for these not being good enough.

[@jphvac5725]

Agree with you!! Ice machines and commercial refrigerators use these temp dependent relays all the time and they last years. Only downfall I can see is these are universal and may not handle the higher currents of larger compressors but each model of them are labeled for HP range so would need to get correct size for bigger units.

[@Z-Ack]

Fla for refrigeration consumer grade is t most 50 or 60 @120vac, the smaller 3 ton unit i have is rated 109fla @230vac the refrigeration caps are usually a way higher value also as the small 2 drawer fridge i have has a cap thats 90mf@480v from factory with a 60hz 110/120 3 prong plug when the 3ton trane has a 10,20,50mf @360v but runs at 240/220 vac. Fridge runs a therm and hvac has contactor but no relay from factory, it uses high/low temp bulbs for cut off protection and no other electronics on the outdoor unit.. the high low cutoffs are wired to the indoor board.. is a 2007 unit with a ‘15 cap date.. but ive seen way more fridges poop out than hvac units and went they do go it’s usually either a refrigerant leak burning out the compressor or the cap itself self destructs… or overheats from bad airflow.. but the contactors do corrode and cause issues sometimes.. fridges always seem to burn the compressor up.. could it be because of the therm? Maybe.. could be from airflow or ac fluctuations also because nobody friggn cleans out the fridge fans like ever so yea.. my 2¢

[@epipolarus]

I found that I have SPP6 when I was replacing the stuck fan motor. It's been there for 20 years! Still works. Unless you know Supco start relay regularly needs replacement, your advice is worthless (to me). Engineers are smarter than a random youtuber.

[@HowToDoitright]

It maybe worthless to you but things that were made 20yrs ago were a lot better then things made today and you know that. This capacitor is the new one. And btw I’m not just a KZbinr. I’m an engineer :)

[@epipolarus]

@@HowToDoitright You still need evidence (such as failure rate or frequency by a field technician) as support. For a simple device like SPP6, I doubt the design is different now from 20 years ago, the labeling and dimension seems exactly the same. Your criticism is about the design, not how it was made. I have no association with the manufacturer, but the design (as shabby as it to you) seems being able to last 20 years.

[@HowToDoitright]

I don’t take things and talk crap about them for no reason. The design may be the same but material quality plays a big role. I have friends in this industry who are qualified hvac business owners and techs for years. The info is provided by them. There is also a forum for HVAC techs which is full of this information how almost many HVAC TECHS are against these. If these were so awsome than every manufacturer would be installing them in new system but no new systems comes with it all every manufacturer recommend Not to install them.

[@mrj2848]

@@HowToDoitright Manufacturers don't install these on basic low cost units in order to keep prices down. Only the higher priced models may contain appropriate hard start modules.

[@Bertalck]

I just found one of these on my AC unit outside. I bought my house in January. AC has been running since May (2.5 months). It died 3 days ago and ive been pouring over videos and websites to figure out whats wrong. This had to have been on here since atleast last year, since no one has worked on my AC except a tuneup 2 weeks ago. That guy didnt mention this part or problems. I'm worried im going to have to replace the whole AC now instead of next summer

[@weavercattlecompany]

I would rather have a solid state over a mechanical relay. The relays they produce today are freaking garbage because they aren't alloying enough beryllium into the copper contacts which means they burn, pit, and end up welding themselves closed thus blowing the guts out of your start capacitor to boot! You're lucky if you can get more than 3 years of use out of these new contactors, relays, etc. hence they are engineering them to fail to sell more product (aka consumer scam).

[@HowToDoitright]

I totally agree with this comment. They are making garbage stuff with an intent for them to fail. That’s why I steal all the contractors and relays from old AC units and use them when needed. The old ones are so much better.

[@byronrace]

No it's not a relay, but saying it's unreliable is not accurate either. This is the same technology that's in almost every refrigerator on Earth.

[@dropflag]

Not sure which model, but in have seen some of these from supco with relays inside of the cap. It was larger than the one in the video.

[@THEFERMANATOR]

The ones with an e at the end have an actual sensing relay with a timer. They also don't have the short cycling problem. People with rv's and inverter generators use them alot.

[@dropflag]

@@THEFERMANATOR good to know

[@CheaddakerT.Snodgrass]

Damage your compressor why? I just used the 5 wite version

[@bills6946]

The 2 wire capacitor will have you doing a free call back. The 3 wire is the only one that should take up any room in you service truck

[@steves563]

If you're worried about the solid state (PTC) relay failing compared to a mechanical relay, get the Supco MPR5 that has a mechanical relay built into it's still 2 wire.

[@HowToDoitright]

good to know

[@steves563]

After more research! Apparently important is that it's a 3 wire kit. That's what the guy who first sold them in the US tells me, says there could be a grounding issue with the 2 wire with may hurt the compressor.

[@fldave612]

The 3 wire kit with a separate potential relay is the ONLY way to go! Spending an extra $20 or so vs. $800 on a compressor replacement or even a whole new unit all together. The only people who I could see using the type of kit in this video would be a home/business owner who knows little to nothing about how these operate and interact with the system, seen a video or Googled the benefits of installing them and naturally went for the lowest priced one. I love reading the reviews on Amazon for example of all the people saying how these only worked a short time, and how they killed their compressor, etc. etc. If any licensed/certified A/C tech tires to install a 2 wire kit w/o the relay like the one in this video, FIRE them on the spot, he/she either is very inexperienced, or is trying to kill your compressor so their outfit can sell you a new system in the near future. I've seen some techs do this crap especially if it's an old R-22 system, I've also seen some techs try and mislead customers with an R-22 unit by saying things like it's illegal to repair, replace parts, or even perform any kind of service on them, even seen one who told a neighbor of mine that it was illegal for them to even have an R-22 system running in their home and if the the Federal EPA got wind of it they would could come and give the homeowner a $10,000 fine for having that system in use. I told my neighbor that tech is a bold faced liar and he should report that company to the BBB and the state AG. All his system needed was a new contactor which I replaced in 15 minutes.

[@LeftsnRights88]

How about doing a review on the Kickstart T05 versus the 5-21-CSRU1. Thank you.

[@HowToDoitright]

Mark Nmolly if you send me one I will be glad to :)

[@technogamers26]

What you recommended

[@HowToDoitright]

You can use the same but it may not help 100%

[@TheCumminsturbo2]

There’s nothing wrong with them been using them for years

[@sh2697]

I just bought a SPP6 for my 4 ton (dual cap is at 50 microfards). I will install on the herm and common of the dual cap. Am I doing this right?

[@HowToDoitright]

As long as their label says it’s for 4ton you should be fine

[@1MaximusDecimusMeridius1]

Yep 👍🏻

[@paolomartini150]

There are probably millions out there i air conditioners everywhere that have been working for decades. SSRs are also solid state and they work just fine. I can not say the same for regular mechanical relays that keep clanking over and over until they get stuck or burn the contacts. Some times in mechanical relays the contacts get welded shut. Any component fails eventually. Is this just your opinion or is there some numbers to back this up too?

[@HowToDoitright]

Mainly my experience and engineering background and lots of research. These are last resort to give little life to dying compressors. Should ever be used on new ones. If they were that good the manufacturer will be installing them and recommending them but they void warranty if you install one of these.

[@DBPR01]

@@HowToDoitright Actually plenty of refrigeration units come with a hard start capacitor from the factory. Trane units have had them for years now.

[@HowToDoitright]

Agree but those are much better quality

[@wadib3eed7]

Can we use a big capacitors in the main power to compensate amperage that lost at a few seconds of starting up ?

[@HowToDoitright]

lol no it doesn’t work like thay

[@bigdaddy4975]

I just took one out that was on fire so they do fail this thing was new also.

[@johndoe-gn6nk]

My unit waste electricity but it still working 27 years later

[@HowToDoitright]

Yes probably because it’s a good compressor and whoever did the installation did a good job in pulling a proper vacuum and remove contamination which prolongs the life of a compressor.

[@thebackwoodsmechanic5029]

Great video man

[@rogerbeaird3320]

thanks bro I looked at the 521 for my amana central air I can't find compressor capacitor so trying to find hard start that's right for mine it's 4[10]22

[@bills6946]

If you can’t find the capacitor, put the cover back on and call a licensed HAVA company. HVAC is not a DIY trade.

[@douggibson2428]

Thanks for your work.

[@southrivapresident]

I have a carrier that came with this from stock and it burnt up so do I leave it off or replace it

[@HowToDoitright]

Normally new units don’t come with them. Someone must have installed it.

[@OleRazzleDazzler]

relays fail too- these arent used as permanent fix. these are for homeowners that say im trying to get another year out of it

[@OleRazzleDazzler]

you mean good brother, but youre giving misinformation.

[@fe6646]

great vid, will check it out

[@stevendavid9430]

Hi can u tell me wat uf is this cap ur holding? N is it for a fridge or havc? Thanks

[@HowToDoitright]

i dont remember the uF rating

[@duncanpage1556]

I just put that on my RV and it doesn't work with my 2500w gen. where can I get a relay like your saying? Thanks

[@HowToDoitright]

Any AC supply stores should have it

[@jameshughes131]

Look for spp4e supco for window ac units

[@mavis-watts8731]

Would a hard start kit work if the capacitor is bad?

[@HowToDoitright]

No it will not. A proper size Capacitor is needed for both compressor and fan.

[@chrissipple1018]

The only reliable hard star components are the ones that the manufacturer recommends for that compressor. the package hard start kits with a relay can be dangerous, due to the fact that you don't know how long the start winding will be energized. Go with the compressor manufacturer hard start components.

[@araceligonzalez3691]

The only thing I can think wrong here is that I have tried the other 521 potential relay and it is better in the boost than this 2 wire. But I have seen some units using this simple booster and are working fine .I recently gave one to a buddy and unit stopped failing but in the past I have had to use the more powerful 521.because the 2 wire couldn't do it. So anything bigger than 3 I would recommend 521 if 2 wire booster not available.

[@weavercattlecompany]

You do realize that a 5-2-1 relay is just an electromagnetic switch that opens & closes hence your argument that implies that it's somehow "BOOSTING" anything is completely full of shit 🤣 The start-capacitor causes more of a momentary phase shift is what creates more starting torque 😊

[@Mike-01234]

Guy tested each hard start cap using a scope and a current probe around the start wire them kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHepg6Oue9Cjma8 He shows how only one that is worth anything the one with a potential relay like the 521. I have installed these on my AC for years first one went for 22 years now I'm on my 2nd unit 12 years so far cheap goodman. You can say what you want in 117F phoenix heat we need extra boost of voltage get hot units going. Manufactures are not in business to see their product last 20 years they want units swapped like lot of crooked AC repair contractors here in Phoenix. You can take a scope and measure over time the current is lower when a compressor starts. I only use the 5 2 1 ones with the external relay has contacts in it.

[@HowToDoitright]

You do have a point about ac contractors and companies. My point was they used to make these good but quality isn’t the same anymore.

[@protech1847]

Can you please suggest which relay I can use for a 4 Ton Rheem condensor! Thank you for letting the world know the truth about these products.

[@HowToDoitright]

Pro Tech what is wrong with the compressor? If it’s running fine I honestly don’t recommend putting anything on it. Only use these when compressor have a hart time starting or you have voltage drop issues on your line.

[@stevestoves2292]

Amrad ES5 is a great one to have. I am very happy with mine. Quality built in America.

[@saintunderconstruction8884]

I think you're wrong and misinforming people buddy. The capacitor that has an external relay still has only 2 wires for input and 2 wires for output which means that is still a solid state realy. The capacitor you're reviewing has a solid state relay (termal switch) inside, same function, just compact design. If you want a real relay it will need to have its own external power source to energize the coil inside of it. If this is the only one negative video about this product, it's for a reason. I suggest that you delete it to avoid unnecessary insults to your person. Good day mate.

[@HowToDoitright]

Thanks buddy. I’ll do some more research. Was given this information by my seniors. I’ll investigate

[@BeaverZer0]

This are not meant for long term. They are a last resort, cheap solution to try to get a compressor in its last legs to run. They usually sound like shit when they do run and they are on limited life anyways. Doing that much work to a system that is almost dead is not worth it. You don't put these on compressors that are working, it would void your warranty. Plus this item is $30. I sell these to people IF it starts the compressor and it has no warranty at all. They are a bandaid at best. The compressor may only last a week, or who knows sometimes. Red seal commercial refrigeration.

[@HowToDoitright]

Well said. Fully agree

[@johndough23]

""They are a bandaid at best."" Hahaha yep.

[@wwbowling]

You're completely wrong

[@HowToDoitright]

lol ok so then please go ahead and entertain me and correct me

[@dickusmaxximun8126]

When an ignorant person has an opinion. Comeback to reality, there have been solid state relays for decades. Your next video should be about how we need to stop driving and buy horses and donkeys. "The solid state relay lifespan, when compared to that of the mechanical relay, is much longer. With no physical contact or arc generation, there’s nothing that can physically wear out over time.Mechanical relays, on the other hand, have a shorter lifespan. The constant opening and closing of the contacts causes them to slowly degrade until they eventually fail. This usually happens after a few hundred or thousand cycles."

[@HowToDoitright]

Go get some education. Amazing how illiterate people jump on making comments without any education. After all your name reflects your personality lol

[@johnlupo3919]

stop saying "SO"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@HowToDoitright]

Why???

[@Supremebean303]

Wasted time.

[@benafluck]

Thats same thing that 521 anyway if the 521 relay wont activate the coil it will stuck on normaly closed its gonna Burn your compressor too... vise versa the one that you saying too. if stay closed same thing what happend.. they Bought the same anyway...

[@johnsonlong1272]

I do like that you can have one of these in your stock and get a unit back up and running on a weekend or until you can source the original parts or even during a panademic creatated supply shortage.