Hard VS Soft Magic Systems | EXPLAINED

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In todays video we're discussing Hard VS Soft Magic Systems! Everything from J.R.R. Tolkien to Brandon Sanderson! Let me know which you prefer and all your recommendations!
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#fantasybooks #books #brandonsanderson #booklover #reader #booktube

[@CapturedInWords]

Do you prefer hard or soft magic systems? Start speaking a new language in 3 weeks with Babbel 🎉. Get up to 60% OFF your subscription ➡Here: go.babbel.com/t?bsc=1200m60-youtube-capturedinwords-mar-2023&btp=default&KZbin&Influencer..capturedinwords..USA..KZbin

[@BruceMount]

Generally, I much prefer hard magic systems, although I have read plenty of books with soft systems. Great video Jay!

[@carlosroo5460]

I prefer a well written system. Thank you very much.

[@CapturedInWords]

Same here! And thanks for watching Bruce!

[@margaretwordnerd5210]

I enjoy reading both tho I prefer at least some structure of energy costs and unintended consequences. What I write is hard magic and less dramatic. A healing spell improves your odds and shortens healing time, but doesn't instantly fix everything. Use a match to light the fire because staring at the tinder until it ignites takes hours of concentration and lots of energy.

[@BruceMount]

@@margaretwordnerd5210 I was intrigued by your "what I write" comment. Do you have any books we can read/listen to?

[@ReadWithJose]

As an native spanish speaker myself and a fan of your chanel It was so random and thrilling see you speaking spanish 😂👌🏻

[@CapturedInWords]

Hahaha I look forward to learning the language more! 😁

[@carlosroo5460]

@@CapturedInWords Buena suerte con eso.

[@matthewwoolley4131]

What I love about the Kingkiller Chronicle is how it blends both hard and soft magic systems together. Sympathy and everything at the University feels right up there with some of the best hard systems, and definitely feels a bit like magical science in all the best way. And then you get things like naming, or things that happen with the fae (one of them literally weaves a "shadow" into a cloak. Not exactly something easy to comprehend). But in an odd way, both systems end up supporting each other. The authenticity built with the harder rules makes the more outlandish examples feel not so much implausible, but simply at a level far higher than our understanding

[@hawk66100]

Sympathy seems more authenticious.

[@CapturedInWords]

Yes!! You pretty much nailed exactly why I like the magic systems in Kingkiller as well. I love having a mix of hard and soft magic that blends good and doesn't feel out of place

[@leehrvyoswld]

​@@hawk66100 authentic?

[@hawk66100]

@@leehrvyoswld That works too.

[@CarolineMolyneux4491]

I love hard magic systems. That's probably why I love Sanderson so much. Please do a video with a lot of recommendations for books with hard magic systems!

[@CapturedInWords]

I'll definitely make a video like that at some point!

[@currangill430]

Just wanted to say, you're editing skills are insane. One of the reasons I love your watching your videos is because of your editing!

[@CapturedInWords]

Thanks, I appreciate that! I pretty much spent the entire day editing this video haha

[@currangill430]

@@CapturedInWords Haha! Hey your videos are original and not re-dos. I do like the silhouettes you use when you transition. I made a mistake on Twitter. I wasn't exactly wrong though. You did do something about magic systems so I thought this was a repeat video lol.

[@EvilDMMk3]

One elementary neglect detaching on is that just because it’s a hard magic system doesn’t mean that they cannot be surprises or you can’t break the rules. It just means you need to do so on the basis of the rules not being properly understood by the users. This is a major part of why the magic in Mistborn feels so real, discoveries happen and an astute reader can even spot the errors or gaps beforehand.

[@phen0menos]

You mentioned near the end of the video that hard/soft magic is a spectrum, but it's also worth mentioning that magic can move along this spectrum over time. For example, in the Realm of the Elderlings the rules of the magic become more clearly defined (to both the reader and the characters) the further you get into the series, so while the magic might feel very soft in book one, by the time you reach book 16 it's almost tipped over into becoming hard magic (though it never comes close to being as rigidly defined as a Sanderson system). The impressive part is that this transition never once felt jarring to me, and was a completely natural progression!

[@EpicTalez]

Congratulation on your wedding! I wish you long life, happiness and prosperity. I lean towards soft magic systems but I can appreciate the Name of the wind type magic system. My preference lies somewhere in between. I like magic that has overarching rules that don't take away the mystic feel so that readers can feel in the blanks. This is a much-needed video!

[@CapturedInWords]

Just saw this comment now, but thank you!! Glad you enjoyed the video man!

[@Rogue_VI]

I don't really care if a magic system is hard or soft. I just like it to be interesting. Malazan has some VERY interesting magic.

[@CapturedInWords]

I'm only on book 1 right now but really enjoying Malazan! And I agree, a long as it's interesting I will like it

[@eavanodonoghue]

These videos about specific topics are really great. Thanks!

[@CapturedInWords]

Glad you enjoy them! :D

[@ericeilersen]

The way you edit these videos is simply immaculate. Great info and ASTONISHING presentation! So glad I found your channel

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you!!

[@jjj-cz7xf]

Hard magic systems like Stormlight are my favorite

[@LukeAdler]

Same!

[@micdeezy95tillinfinity]

Please tell me youve looked into more sanderson. Stormlight is but one of many systems that are all hard magic systems but very unique. And they all play in together in the cosmere, as they are all part of a planet system and originated from the same entity that was split, creating the "shards" like honor and odium, which drifted and spread to the different planets and affecting those worlds and people/creatures on them according to their attributes

[@spencercorpuz]

Don't forget Dresden Files! That's kind of a hybrid system. There's not two magic systems at play, but it's more like a really well defined soft system, I'm often finding myself still awed by the magic while also able to pretty much completely understand how it works.

[@Gundam00257]

Yesss Dresden!

[@CapturedInWords]

I was almost going to mention Dresden but then didn't have enough time since I was already up too late editing 😂 I'm only 3 books into Dresden but really loving the magic system

[@arcanefeline]

A fellow Dresden fan here. You're spot on. The Dresdenverse magic simultaneously has comprehensive rules thanks to the protagonist's POV, but is so vast and complex that even Harry often admits that he does not know everything. It's defined enough for Harry to solve plot problems with, but has enough unknown to preserve the sense of wonder.

[@margaretwordnerd5210]

I love that Dresden has jewelry which charges as he moves normally and can use the stored energy later Like a hybrid car. Butcher is good with the costs of magic. Wizards get tired in a boss fight.

[@MammothMorals]

I would argue it's less black and white and more like a spectrum. the wizards from LOTRs and the soft side and allomancy on the hard side with things like bending and the wheel of time being somewhere in the middle.

[@CapturedInWords]

That's a good observation, I agree I think it is more of a spectrum for sure

[@zkhyde]

The Malazan Book of the Fallen has one of the best magic systems I’ve ever read.

[@timothyhairston2051]

I’ve read the main series. The prequels and the sequel. I still don’t really understand it fully but it’s also my favorite lol

[@sayajinrd]

Well, Askir has both. The gods have a soft magic system, but the mortals with their lesser powers have a hard magic system. And I think Codex of Alera has it too

[@KingRaffael]

I like both equally, cuz I think it's all based on how the writer uses the system that they're working with, and how they incorporate it into the story. I've seen both magic systems used very well, and I've also seen both used horribly.

[@TheLee267]

I’d love to know what worlds some of that artwork are linked too.

[@thebigshep]

As a big Neil Gaiman fan, I gotta say I strongly prefer soft magic if it's done well. It's why I pick up books like Black Leopard Red Wolf and Book of the New Sun, yet still haven't read any Sanderson. But having a magical world where anything is possible should almost always lead to more trouble for the protagonist than it does solutions. I prefer writing soft magic for that same reason. Creating a sense of mystery and unpredictability around the magic is what separates it from the natural laws of our universe and makes it frightening

[@FunFantasyBooks]

Jay! If you want to practice your Spanish, i can help! (I’m a Spaniard!) - also amazing video! Your images and overall edition always make your videos top tier!

[@CapturedInWords]

That would be awesome! And thanks!

[@Cam_Wolfe]

I really do slide from liking one to the other more, it's hard to say. Hard magic is great for understanding the world, but then I do really enjoy it when the Author lets loose with soft fantasy. Knowing anything could happen is exciting in its own right, as long as it's not used as a "get out of jail free" card haha 😂 great video, as always mate

[@CapturedInWords]

I'm pretty much the same, I feel like I truly love when an author can successfully use soft magic to build mystery and wonder without it feeling like a deus ex machina, and I feel like soft magic can work really well for adding elements of horror to fantasy. Hard magic is fun because it adds a lot to the worldbuilding and also lets the readers feel like they can solve problems along with the protagonist, as we know the limitations and abilities of their power.

[@carlosroo5460]

One Piece has 2 major magic systems, the one introduce in the first half is a hard one, the Devil Fruits grants the user who consumes it a specific ability based on the name of the fruit. There are 3 types: -Paramecia: That grants the user quirk super hero like powers, like transforming leaf into cloth or the ability to manipulate magnetic fields, or splitting his/her own body without bleeding and make the parts float. -Zoan: That transform you into an hybrid of an animal and you can even become the animal itself. -Logia: That allow you to manipulate and muted your body into an specific element of nature, for example there's a villain that is basically Sandman from Spider-mans rouge gallery, but he can take this power to further and more terrifying extents. Devil Fruits had a major drawback that is that the user becomes and unable to swim and is heavy as a hammer on water. And in a world that has no continents and is just a bunch of islands, this is a high risk high reward situation, also there cannot be 2 devil fruits that are exactly the same, also one cannot eat more than 1 Devil fruit. The second system is a more soft system, and is introduce during the second half of the series, but is hiten earlier than that. I won't go into more details for spoiler reasons, but unlike the devil fruits this system can be trained and taught to anybody and you also need a strong willpower, and it also has it's own 3 branches.

[@mariosanchezpolidore1089]

Please explain the soft system more. It might prove to be inspirational.

[@muntu1221]

​@mariosanchezpolidore1089 It's not actually that soft. One Piece in general has loosely defined limitations to the extent a power can be taken. That's soft across the board. Haki, what they were hinting at, still has rules and classifications. For example, observation Hakincan allow you to predict what an enemy is going to do, but it doesn't work the faster the opponent is for your perception. Conqueror's Haki is you basically crushing the spirit of your enemy with your will, causing weaker people to pass out completely. Armament Haki allows you to coat weapons in your will and cause much more damage with your attack, as well as forcing Devil Fruits into a state that allows you to do damage to them if they're, say, a fruit that turns the user to gas or liquid. There are soft elements to both, like the will of someone being able to continue to exist in an object and how that happens not being clearly defined, or some fruits acting as other fruits. But they're both defined to an extent that how the characters use them can be predicted and used creatively within set rules.

[@arcanefeline]

I'd argue that The Dresden Files series has both hard(er) and soft(er) magic systems. The first is, well, magic that the wizards use. Given that the protagonist is a wizard, we get explanation on most things magic can and cannot do. We know all the rules and limitations that Harry Dresden himself knows. Most other supernatural creatures work with magic in similar ways, so we know, for the most part, what to expect from them. However, given that Harry is relatively young for a wizard, he does not know everything about magic. So there is still enough mystery about it to keep things interesting. Then, there are such things like the power of faith, the gods, the higher fey and of the creatures outside of reality. Neither Harry nor the reader knows much about how they work, so such powers are not used to solve the plot. Rather, they're used to ramp up tension or add a sense of wonder.

[@pablocarrillo7484]

Seriously enjoy these videos! Awesome job!

[@CapturedInWords]

Glad you like them! Thanks :D

[@Gundam00257]

Love the video

[@ACMR6297]

I like soft magic from a narrative point of view because it retains the wonder and mystique. Also plot armour doesn’t seem as infuriating when it does happen. But when it comes to fights and battles, hard magic systems are better because you really get to appreciate the skill by the combatants.

[@kayleebur9819]

A book with a wonderful magic system is The Inheritance Cycle By Christopher Paolini it's a hard magic system and the books set up rules very fast for example someone with the ability to use magic can only do so by using words in an Ancient Language. Another example is if you aren't strong enough for a spell it will kill you and once you commit to a spell it will consume your energy until it is finished or you're dead but people can store energy in gemstones to use later. It's fun and well written and I suggest reading it if you haven't.

[@stephen7489]

Hi great video, I’ve always been slightly uncomfortable with the definition of hard vs soft magic. If hard is just your readers understanding then the actual magic isn’t the hard element but the authors definition. For example mistborn could have been told from the perspective of a non-allomancer to whom the allomancy is a mystery but would that make allomancy soft? I personally don’t think so because I’d argue “hard” is really two elements combined (rational and defined) and soft is the opposite (irrational and undefined). Now you could have irrational and defined which is what I’d argue Harry Potter largely is but that means we aren’t on a line between soft and hard but rather a four quadrant graph. I prefer soft magic that you can see patterns in, I’d argue the First Law magic is like this. Which makes it rational and undefined. Hope this makes sense as quite difficult to articulate in short form.

[@tarancehill651]

Good points.

[@wayner396]

A series that uses both sytems is the Abhorsen/Old Kingdom series by Garth Nix. He has free magic that is wild, chaotic, and curruptive and charter magic that is organized and structured.

[@vivic.k.c.4244]

I love both magic systems! Great video!

[@monkeymox2544]

I think one trap that people fall into when discussing hard and soft magic systems is that they sometimes conflate 'hardness' with sophistication. In reality, hard magic systems can be very unsophisticated and soft magic much better conceived. Sanderson, for example, creates hard magic systems, but when you sit back and think about them they're pretty simple. I don't mean that in a bad way - the way that complexity can arise from simplicity is very satisfying - but they're still sometimes a bit crude. 'Eat metal X, do thing Y' is hardly complex in and of itself. On the other hand, Tolkien is often described as having a 'soft' magic system, yet the actual ideas behind that magic system are _incredibly_ sophisticated. To understand magic in Tolkien you have to get into conversations about divine will and grace, about metaphysics, and about the deep lore of Middle Earth itself. The other thing to always bear in mind is that no matter what kind of system an author is using, you're still reading a written text. A hard magic system doesn't _actually_ impose all that many limitations on the writer, it just gives the illusion of doing so. If in a Mistborn book something that can be 'pushed' on happens to be in the right place at the right time for what Sanderson wants the character to do, that's no more contrived than for it to turn out that a character using a 'soft' system has new power reserves or abilities. At the end of the day, if an author wants something to happen, they'll make it happen.

[@laurelanderson6447]

I thought silverworking in Babel by R. F. Kuang was really interesting, and arguably blends elements of hard and soft in that there are very specific rules about the basics of how to do the magic (inscribe a pair of words in two languages on a silver bar and activate it by speaking both words...assuming you're exceptionally fluent in both languages), but often the actual effects of a given match-pair are unclear until they are tested out.

[@TheAyeAye1]

The most original and, my favorite, magic system is in the Desielpunk series Hard Magic by Larry Corriea. A close second is the Arcane casebook series by Dan Willis. Both have hard magic systems.

[@PhoenixCrown]

I really like the hybrid, getting the best of both worlds. In my books, we start with hard magic. My MC can't use magic, so from his eyes, it's... magical. His counterpart uses it every day so it's mundane to her. Then they both start learning more about it, and the possibilities open up, moving towards a much softer magic as the series unfolds, which matches the theme of destiny, control, order and chaos. It's fun =)

[@LionelSondy]

The spectrum from diamond hard to cotton candy soft is just one of the many dimensions of magic systems. Too few authors know about the tons of coolness beyond it, e. g. the rational-irrational spectrum. Even less authors understand how Perspective can add a third and a FOURTH dimension to a magic system. For people who want to have magic, sufficiently advanced technology, monsters, aliens etc. in their stories or games, I highly recommend "TheMagicEngineer" here on YT.

[@margaretwordnerd5210]

*WOW!!!* Thanks for the excellent recommendation! I can't believe the algorithm never introduced me to this channel.

[@evanbarkman5786]

I like creating magic systems that are hard magic systems embedded in a soft magic system. Basically while magic is far bigger than anyone really understands and may have few if any limitations, however it is also difficult or impossible to use reliably until a more concrete magic system is created out of it (either naturally or by people), so they characters are using a relatively hard magic system, but there is magic that's bigger and more mysterious than any character or even groups of characters understands.

[@cybersketcher1130]

Jay: Bending has rules and limitations Azula: Shoots lightning without the stance typically used for lightning bending* ???

[@Zelda_Thorn]

imo, i think when we write about magic, we're working through something in us that has to do with the interaction of what we want and what we think is fair. i tend to like the way soft magic systems explore that question and some of my favorites are: jonathan strange and mr norrell / piranesi - susanna clarke - beautiful poetic magic and deep lore with almost no details shown of how it's actually performed or how it works other than the eventual revelation that (spoilers) everything, from trees to the wind to time, is alive and can be spoken and bargained with. the last unicorn - peter s beagle - magic works like in a fairy tale. wizards can do almost anything so long as it's the right time in the narrative to do so. witches can only curse, never do good magic. unicorns purify their surroundings, dispel curses, break chains, heal wounds, even bring someone back to life. many people cry when they see one. a hero can even do his own kind of magic, at least in undoing curses and resisting evil hexes. i do like some hard magic systems and i think some of my favorites are: the magicians - lev grossman - magic is a difficult, fiddly science akin to advanced theoretical physics that one learns in a university/post-grad environment in upstate new york. people die alot. the craft sequence - max gladstone - magic is essentially law, with a heavy science flair. reality is based on belief and can be argued with, and contracts are binding physical rules because we believe they are. corporations are gods. wizards are lawyers. the first book is basically a bankruptcy proceeding. the young wizards series - diane duane - a YA series dating back from the mid eighties that is to my knowledge ongoing. magic is something received by the Powers who decide that you'd be helpful in the battle against entropy, and it's much like coding (and there is a lotttt of computer references and analogues especially in the later books). highly scientific and exact with its own special language. surprisingly beautiful and touching at times. great video!

[@ApolloFresh]

Is Berserk’s magic system a soft magic system? The magic in there feels so fantastical and awesome

[@freshlybrewedtruth5600]

dude...the animation clips in this video are amazing. Where are they from? And thanks for all this. Working on my magic system and it's been interesting.

[@Darkkfated]

One thing Brandon Sanderson points out about Hard Magic systems is that your characters should be defined by their LIMITATIONS, not their powers. Sure, they can do X and Y, but they suck at dealing with Z... so how can they get creative with X and Y to minimize weakness Z? That's what makes it all compelling - when the character thinks of a way to "bend the rules" in their favor.

[@triplehood]

Bending is clearly a hybrid system. There are some rules, but there is also a lot of leeway. Perhaps it is a hard magic system that hasn't yet been fully explained by the people in the world? That might be possible, but as far as we know, it's a hybrid system.

[@brucemartin1420]

Just in case anyone was wondering that intro was trippy AF

[@joshuabarger472]

yo! Congrats on the marriage proposal my guy!

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you!!

[@bambuu_]

Stepping into the Mistborn books (and eventually into the whole Sanderson universe) truly was like discovering a whole new genre of fantasy to me. I now have a hard time reading series with soft magic because I love to understand the whys and the hows and the limits of the powers and so on. I do still enjoy soft magic in some stories every now and then, but hard magic just feels soooo satisfying.

[@alexandergraham1281]

One series i read is the Harbinger series, the first book being Storm Glass and its sister series the Kingfountain series. Both excellent with an interesting combination of hard and soft magic. Harbinger has the "Mysteries" which are obviously in context to be real world sciences and politics, but are treated by the characters in the first book as a soft magic system. Once the main character starts learning the mysteries it becomes a bit harder and the rules start showing themselves. Later on a character is awakened as a Harbinger, which is a softer magic system which will give the characger visions of the future or past. There are also flying skyships, floating island manors, and portals to other worlds.

[@alexandergraham1281]

Kingfountain is heavily inspired by Arthurian myth and so there are wizers which are like wizard viziers with soft magic, and then some people are "fountain blessed" which gives them a unique magical ability as long as they "serve the fountain" which is their religion. Its also an interesting series and the two have some crossover which is interesting.

[@alexandergraham1281]

For anyone who has read or looking to read I understand i am simplifying a lot. Theres like 12 books between these two series

[@Royalscriber5633]

I actually have a complex hard magic system with 3 trees. Light, revovles around all aspects that can possibly fall under Light as well as positivity, Dark, revovles the opposite obviously but the third tree, Chaos, comes off as Elemental but is eventually discovered to be about aspects of all aspects Nature. In the story Chaos magic is seen as dangerous and Dearves created Rune magic which is just a filtered version of Chaos magic. With Rune Magic being easier to control and safer to wield mankind try in the first story to outlaw it and it turns on its head with my main character in the first story out for revenge due to the law causing the death of someone he cared for.

[@no.xivxion4352]

"guide eon torpedoes" Proton Torpedoes. Ion Torpedoes are Star Trek. I love SW, it won't stop bugging me xD

[@CapturedInWords]

Oh you're right! Ahaha my bad 😂

[@PalmTree76]

What's the name of the music used in the beginning of the video?

[@jordendarrett1725]

Speaking of languages, I'd love to see a magic system that goes into depth of language/words, something like naming in KKC or the classic "language of the gods", but harder. Btw what languages are you interested in learning?

[@gebwarchronicles]

I enjoy both systems and which one works the best is based on what the story is trying to be. However as a fan of Science Fantasy I really enjoy worlds that have both systems in existence. Kingkiller Chronicles is definitely a highlight of both systems existing in the same story/world. I tend to find a lot of Japanese Light novels tend to have the ability to create really good soft and hard magic systems sometimes within the same world. For example "A Certain Magical Index" and its associated spin-offs have a really interesting systems. A Certain Magical Index has two distinct systems, one for science/espers and one for magic/magicians. The science side is based on the application of science theories, such as manipulating vectors or electromagnetism or friction. Each esper can only manipulate one of these, so if you get the ability to manipulate friction that's all you can manipulate. The magic on the other hand is the application of mythology, for example using the legend of the golem to create and control golems, or using Norse runes to create and control fire magic. The story covers the use of Norse, Japanese, Greek, Christian, Aztec mythologies and more. Unlike science you can use any form of magic you want, you can learn Norse magic and then pull from Christian lore to create anti flight magic. Another interesting hard magic system is from 'The Irregular at Magic High School'. It's highly detailed and acts like a science that at times has the ability to selectively ignore the laws of physics. Not sure if it counts as a soft magic system as the rules about it are quite detailed but the 'Will and the Word' from David Eddings 'Belgariad' is also a good favorite as it makes sense and can be used to fix problems but at the same time is based on willpower which means that the limit for magic is not magic but the user themselves. This is especially interesting as Gods use the same magic system but because their gods they can use the magic system on a level that humans simple can't. Other magic systems I enjoyed include: The Wheel of Time, Brandon Sanderson, Terry Brooks (Shannara Series), Witcher series.

[@VicRibeiro777]

The Powder Mage trilogy. Hybrid magic systems. McClellan was a student of Sanderson, and it shows. One of the best "flintlock", military fantasy series I've read so far. Give it a shot. 😊

[@Kenb3d1]

New drinking game. Take a shot every time Jay says the word 'Magic' in this video. Give it a go, get your next of kin to post a comment, letting us know how long you survived.😁

[@zmsays]

Any WH40K readers here? Space Fantasy? Where are we on psykers/navigators/librarians/aeldari and The Warp? I want to say it COULD be a hard magic setting but there hasn't really been any indulgence with the mechanics so it remains kinda soft magic--to the reader.

[@visnoga5054]

I was really curious because I heard those terms but did not know the proper meaning, and was especially curious because in my universe magic can come from two very different sources which have separate uses and applications and I was wondering where it stands. The answer is easy enough: I was just using both.

[@zakuzeon7382]

I would argue that Dragon Ball/Z/GT/S is a mix of hard and soft magic. Most of the 'Magic' revolves around Ki manipulation, which is the 'hard' magic like power levels and Kamehamehas, but there's also a fair bit of 'soft magic' like the Dragon Balls themselves, & Majin Buu, etc. Hell, even Gundam, widely looked at as Japan's Star Trek is starting to slide further & further into soft magic territory with it's Newtypes. It was originally just a form of Telepathy & maybe precognition, but now it's had way more abilities added to it that are never really explained, going well into soft magic territory.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

That king maker magic you mentioned sounds interesting, just as a lighter note, perhaps if you missed this point, as far as I've learned and I'm not from judo-christian tradition only heard this from others more informed, the difference between Adam and Eve is that Adam runs around the paradise and tries to name everything, while Eve instead has the ability to listen and speak with all things in the paradise, naming is a form of assertion of power, while communicating is the opening of a sympathetic relationship... I believe the writer had such initial idea in mind.

[@michaelofstjoseph]

If magical or mystical powers become mechanized they are transformed into technology. Magic by its nature must remain distant.

[@elchiponr1]

Babbel sounds fine, but I don't need to learn real world conversations, I need fantasy world conversations XD

[@e_o_tics]

Hello Jay, have you ever read or watched Hunter x Hunter? Imo, here we have one of the best hard magic system in all literature. Also, come to Brazil someday!

[@CapturedInWords]

I've watched a handful of episodes years ago, but I definitely want to get into Hunter X Hunter at some point! I've heard a lot of great things about Nen. And it would be awesome to visit Brazil some time!

[@currangill430]

I agree with the authors who say that defining magic takes away from the wonder. One of the reasons I have a preference for soft magic since it's mysterious. I'm also not a big fan of "sciencing" magic as in hard magic systems. I also don't care so much about magic that it needs to be a main character and I usually roll my eyes when it's over explained and/or has HARD rules. Meh. I feel like I'm in the minority with this.

[@geekmechanic1473]

I agree, hard magic can sometimes feel like a really advanced science

[@acoupleofschoes]

Harry Potter's not so much Soft as it is Squishy. The setting is a school for learning magic. There are rules for consistent and reliable magic (words, intonation, wand movement, meaning), but we see that those rules are not necessary. Magic is somehow innate in wizards (and can spontaneously appear in non-wizard babies). Babies just do magic, powerful wizards can do magic without speaking or even without a wand, love and emotion can imbue magic into the world. The books define a bunch of magic spells, but the world shows us that magic could really be anything. This series is really one of those that showcase the difficulty of these systems. Putting a little effort into defining some magic can just make the stuff you don't explicitly define come off as weakly written.

[@CapturedInWords]

I agree! Harry Potter's magic is definitely there to provide wonder for the reader, and new magic is even added per book to fit the plot. Some of it when looked at with a critical eye (like time travel) can be inconsistent, and there's even some plot holes with some of the magic. But I find it to be less of poor writing, and more that Rowling just wanted to keep it very fun and light. I think describing it as Squishy is pretty accurate, it has elements of both Hard and Soft magic.

[@archon8519]

Soft magic gang. Hard magic sounds cool, but in practice I find the books just turn out to read like Marvel movies and the magic becomes less and less interesting.

[@XaryLoon]

I suggest to you Witch Hat Atelier, where magica Is operated only throught well explained magic circle.

[@yektaklc4327]

Cleverly written systems are always interesting. When character achive something with not just plot armor but really smart and satisfying plan, it makes reader feel that character earned it. Hard magic gang forever :D that being said mix of together is mostly the best result. My favorite 2 series is kingkiller chronicles and wheel of time they had both systems in it.

[@erenja3ger871]

You say this yet I find marvel operates on a soft magic system. Only few writers in comics actually make it feel hard. Example being Warren ellis and Jonathan Hickman

[@Vynndii]

You should get into the Cosmere by Brandon Sanderson. It’s all a hard magic system and it never feels this way. Granted, it IS written by the one who came up with this soft/hard system.

[@gloopygoldfish493]

@@XaryLoonyes! Witch hat atelier has got to be my favorite manga, good feelings all around

[@gabrielleauclair254]

So, if I understand correctly, Eragon is a hard magic system and Narnia a sof magic system?

[@wiseberr]

I’ve been enjoying the hard magic system made by Andrew Rowe in his Arcane Ascension series

[@CapturedInWords]

I'll have to give it a read!

[@jamieowen2145]

Have you read the licanius trilogy? Its got hard magic and softer magic systems

[@CapturedInWords]

Not yet! I do want to get to it eventually though, I've had the first 2 books on my shelf forever now

[@jamieowen2145]

@@CapturedInWords honestly it was such a good read, worked really well for me after finishing wheel of time as a change of pace with similar themes

[@phantasm137]

"Me gusta la comida mexicana" please if you travel to Mexico do try the food, specially Pozole, chilaquiles, enchiladas and tacos.

[@CapturedInWords]

Whenever I do travel to Mexico, I'll definitely be trying as much of the food as possible!! 😁

[@Punkyscout]

A (terrible) example of soft magic is Yu-Gi-Oh! Where players can say that summoning the moon causes all of their water-based monster increase in power because the tide rises with the influx of the moon (where in a real card game that would be illegal and absurd).

[@ZMCFERON]

I prefer hard magic to set baselines for what magic can do as a DnD player. So long as the use doesn't emulate something higher tier than it is, it's free game for interpretation

[@azazelgrigori9244]

Frankly, I'm a big fan of hard magic system, particularly the color pie in magic the gathering. I like when magic is separated into different varieties and characters use different types. To me, the use of a soft magic system can sometimes be a show of laziness or cheapness. As if the writers just wanted to create a magical world without putting in the work. Perhaps for a sitcom.

[@monkeymox2544]

Sometimes its definitely true that soft magic is a sign of laziness, but most of the time I'd say not. Sometimes 'hard' magic is also a sign of laziness too, insofar as some authors think that they can replace literary ability with magical complexity. I wouldn't say that I prefer either, but I do think that soft magic, when done right, is much better for exploring deep ideas and themes, and also has the potential for being _more_ sophisticated than hard magic systems (in Tolkien, for example, you need to have a long conversation about theology and metaphysics before you can even start to talk about how magic 'works' in his world). I have found that fantasy novels which use soft magic tend to have more literary merit - not because of any inherent superiority of one approach over the other, but probably because authors using hard magic tend to have different priorities. I'm not saying, to be clear, that novels which use hard magic are bad, or that all such novels have less literary merit. That's just a pattern I've noticed over the years. I still thoroughly enjoy books with hard magic systems, and some are phenomenal.

[@sebastianwrites]

Congrats on the new marriage... do you have any 'Health' and "Self Preservation of Sanity" spells in light of this prospect Jay? Poor attempts at jest aside... I hope you're mom's health improves.

[@CapturedInWords]

Thank you!!

[@theatheistpaladin]

A good magic system is one where you don't have to explain why giant eagles solve every problem you have.

[@connorgregory5625]

I would say harry potter is a good example of how you shouldn't write a soft system. It should be much harder than it is.

[@azurepulse1870]

I really enjoy hard magic systems so much better. With better defined rules and limitations, I find it easier for my imagination to play around with what would and could I do if such a system exist. It provides an exciting framework to help you create your own fan narratives, whereas the murky soft magic just feels limited to the whims of the author. Gandalf can use magic... but he rarely does, and it's just so much less interesting as a result and you wonder why he didn't do things differently, be more active besides giving advice and lore information. It just leaves me extremely disappointed in him as a character

[@monkeymox2544]

That's actually what I love about Tolkien, that to understand magic you have to dive deep into the lore, and it helps if you understand Tolkien's theological and metaphysical beliefs. Magic in LOTR is actually _way_ more sophisticated, interesting and complex than in (for example) Mistborn. So to take Gandalf as an example - once you understand Tolkien's view of free will, how that is related to the divine plan, and what Gandalf's role is, his reluctance to use magic makes much more sense. Gandalf and the other wizards are angelic beings who were sent to Middle Earth in a deliberately disempowered form, in order to help Middle Earth prepare for the return of Sauron. They were sent in this form precisely because the Valar did not want to interfere with the free will of the people of Middle Earth (free will being divine in itself), they didn't want to simply impose a solution on them - rather, they sent beings who could guide and provide direction, but never seek to use their power unduly. Obviously didn't entirely work out, what with Saruman, but that was the idea. This is one reason why Gandalf doesn't just continually use magic - it is against his mission to do so. Personally, I find all of that _so much more_ interesting that someone eating a lump of metal and being able to fly, or whatever. It is also important to remember that you're _always_ at the whim of the author. If an author wants something to happen, they'll find a way to make it happen, hard magic or not.

[@azurepulse1870]

@@monkeymox2544 Indeed, that's where we differ. They're angelic beings who help out with knowledge, and not with action. But as beings with knowledge we ourselves are tasked with action to help those less fortunate than ourselves by our own actions. As an angelic being... well, his power means nothing and should not exist at all a this point, which then focuses on his knowledge and wisdom, which does not need magic for that. In that case, he's just a wizened old man, not a wizard. If an author wants something to happen, he'll make it happen yes. kinda feels like a double standard here though. angelic beings who do know better... are not allowed to educated or do better that much. and the rest of the entire sentient beings who live in a different realm have to deal with a different reality and only have... well meaning platitudes to guide them.

[@monkeymox2544]

@@azurepulse1870 Yes but again this is where soft magic helps with the development of themes. Gandalf having power at his disposal _and choosing not to use it_ is much more thematically powerful than just not having any power at all. Gandalf's wisdom manifests in his understanding of when the use of his power is appropriate. There are very similar conversations throughout LOTR in regards to things like knowledge and advice, too.

[@azurepulse1870]

@@monkeymox2544 also, without any knowledge of his power... he feels like a fake. he hints at it at places, rather than being reticent at using it.

[@monkeymox2544]

@@azurepulse1870 I don't think that's true. To give an example, I know nothing about programming. I have no idea what limitations exist in commuting, or how to gauge what an individual programmer's abilities or limitations are. Yet if I'm watching a film or reading a book where someone manipulates a computer in some way, I don't feel that those limitations need establishing in advance for me to enjoy the story. If a hacker breaks into a network that it was supposed to be impossible to break into, I don't ask "how di they manage that, then", I just accept that the person discovered something, or found some way of making the situation work. Not knowing precisely what the limitations of Gandalf's powers are is precisely the same. He doesn't feel any more fake than a hacker feels fake - just because I don't understand it, it doesn't mean there are no underlying principles at play.

[@marianacarina2580]

Magic is magic because you can't understand it. If you can make a sense out of it, then it's a tool, not magic. And this is why soft magic systems are still the best and I hope they became popular in fiction again. Also I wish authors stop following this rusty and boring advice of "soft magic is for the antagonist, hard magic is for the protagonist" and blah blah blah. I hate hard magic systems.

[@muntu1221]

Literally none of this is true. Magic, historically, has been presumed to be understood by someone. That's not even where the dichotomy comes from. Magic is a science in Lord of the Rings, the lead cast members just don't know how it works. Hard magic means the reader can tell what will happen when magic is used and won't be surprised by its applications. Fairytales often have hard magic systems. We know what will happen if Pinocchio lies, for example. Witches, magicians, alchemists, priests, pagans, and many people were said to know how their magic works. They studied it, applied it, and could diagnose when it was used. Also, soft magic is all prevalent in media. There's just more of an emphasis on creating identifiable magic systems, and you can hate that all you want but it's been great for fantasy media. We wouldn't have gotten Avatar, Lightbringer, and many other pieces of media I enjoy if not for that. Also, magic and tool aren't mutually exclusive. Magical tools were a thing before even our language was.

[@Queen-dl5ju]

needs more Anime from these fantasy creators.. theres tons of shit in anime.. like Naruto, once piece , black clover etc its endless.. youtubers focus way too much on western works

[@muntu1221]

Probably because you're watching videos about books and not TV shows or movies, and most novels that people read are going to be in their native language. If you check out sci-fi book videos, you'll see a lot more content from other countries, though.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

Nah. Soft magic systems smell more like bullshit where the author can just deus ex machina a lot for no valid reason but you can.

[@SeanMichaelStephens]

Soft magic is actual magic. Hard magic is just impossible science. Doesn’t feel like magic