STOP Buying Wrong Speakers! KEF Q3 META Review.

[@ManFromLaBamba]

I’m a professor and this man is a natural education. I know he works hard on these reviews but the man also has an innate talent for explaining abstract things in clear and entertaining ways. The advice regarding dispersion angle is great: listen to some of the speakers erin reviews with differing dispersion and decide what fits you best. Ala that is more challenging in execution. Listening in a show room won’t approximate the conditions in almost anyone’s actual room, and you won’t be able to listen long enough with as broad a selection of YOUR selected examples of music and/or film examples. That’s if there is even a retailer with a listening room available. So one would have to buy a few models, set them up in one’s house, try them out for a few weeks and then return the sets you do not want. A hassle and Return shipping on speakers can get expensive unless you can use an Amazon drop off or buy locally from a place with a good return policy that won’t charge a restocking fee (good luck). And that is why Erin’s reviews are SO important. The measurements are great but would not mean much without his extremely clear explanations of them, basic concepts, as well explaining his subjective preferences in clear and non jargon filled ways. In my subjective listening tests, he is the best audio reviewer on you tube and among a handful anywhere who is rigorous, no b/s, and helpful. I have been into audio my whole life and learned more from him regarding speakers in a few videos than in decades.

[@johnyang799]

High frequency linearity is improved quite a lot but the mid range madness....

[@wallycunningham5090]

Odd how some of theirs have this and some don't.

[@dbmandrake]

@@wallycunningham5090 Yeah that midrange linearity (both frequency response and multitone even when bass is removed) is pretty disappointing to be honest, especially coming from KEF. It's great to see channels like this giving cold hard measurement data and keeping the "flowery" descriptions to a minimum.

[@dbmandrake]

That 2dB bump at 120Hz is almost certainly caused by an interaction between the baffle step correction in the crossover and the impedance curve of the midbass driver. It's quite common for this to happen in passive 2 way designs and is actually sometimes difficult to avoid with a passive network without a lot of of extra complexity. The reactance on either side of the large impedance peak of the driver at 80Hz shown in your measurements interacts with the series inductance of the baffle step compensator (typically just a coil and resistor in parallel, connected in series between the input and the low pass filter section) to introduce a significant hump above the resonance frequency of the driver - about 120Hz in this case. The more baffle step correction you have, the worse this hump gets. It's not just "less attenuation" at this frequency, it actually boosts it slightly above the input due to the resonance effect of the combined reactances of the driver and the baffle step coil. I have the same "issue" in a 2 way design that I built and decided not to try to compensate for it (which would take at least three extra, large components) because it's actually what you sometimes need for a 2 way system. If the woofer was mounted close to the floor it would see a 1/2 space load and get a fairly uniform boost from the floor from around 30Hz right up to about 300Hz. However when you put the "woofer" as high as a midrange driver needs to be to be near on axis to a listener and given optimal imaging etc (which is the only option in a 2 way where the same driver is producing bass and midrange) this floor gain is still present at low bass frequencies (due to the longer wavelengths) but rapidly tapers off above about 80Hz. This can cause quite a big suck-out in the in-room upper bass response from around 100-150Hz for a speaker that might be anechoically flat, and it doesn't sound optimal. For a speaker like this with a high mounted woofer you actually want to boost the anechoically measured bass a few dB around 100-150Hz or so to help fill in this room induced suck-out. So it's not that you prefer a hump at this frequency its that the in room response at your listening position will have less of a suck-out in this frequency range with the "bump" present and be more neutral. So in this case a side effect of reactance interactions between driver and crossover which makes the anechoic response look worse actually works in our favour for a 2 way so it gets left in the design as correcting it would be expensive in components and actually sound worse. If it was a 3 way system with a near floor mounted woofer you would not want a deliberate hump in the anechoic response around this frequency as there is no in-room suck-out in the upper bass that needs filling in this case. Regarding the speaker itself - a bit disappointed both in that very jagged midrange around 1Khz and the very high multitone distortion compared to many of the other speakers you've measured. Problems around 1Khz are often issues with the design of the surround of a driver that size, as it is the "surround dip" resonance frequency on drivers around 6-8" in size. If that resonance is not well controlled it will cause a dip in the response. I've seen dips as much as 6dB around 1Khz on some 8" drivers that are entirely caused by the surround resonance. It could also be a tube resonance of the port which would also fall around that frequency for a port of that length, however that is easily tested by filling the length of the port with some socks - if the 1Khz resonance goes away it was a tube resonance, if it remains its probably a surround resonance in the driver.

[@Artcore103]

Great response, except that favour is properly spelled favor!

[@dbmandrake]

@@Artcore103 Not here it isn't... 😄

[@seanb3303]

Are you referring to the Allison effect?

[@dbmandrake]

@@seanb3303 I had to look that term up as it's not one that I use, but yes. It's a combination of room mode excitation effects with placement, and boundary cancellation with placement. Both are ultimately caused by the interaction of reflections but behave slightly differently. Cancellation from room modes occurs at set frequencies controlled by the room dimensions but the degree of cancellation is affected by the speakers position along that axis of the room. Boundary cancellation effects change frequency depending on the distance of the woofer from the boundary - as the distance increases the frequency of the cancellation falls. In the case of the height of a woofer you have both effects at play - for the room mode, if you had a 2.4 metre (8 foot) ceiling that vertical room mode is around 71Hz and a woofer at the floor will maximally excite that mode. As you lift it away from the floor the response at 71Hz would drop and reach a minimum at 1.2 metres. Furthermore the second harmonic - 142Hz would have three minimums at 0.6, 1.2 and 1.8 metres. If your midbass was 0.6 metres off the floor you've got a large minimum at 142Hz and a partial reduction at 71Hz which ultimately contributes towards the bass sloping down as frequency goes up. Boundary cancellation effects from the floor mean a woofer mounted quite close to the floor will not experience any cancellation from the floor until well above 300Hz - above its operating range. (For a 3 way anyway) However as you start to lift the woofer higher and higher the frequency of cancellation - which is determined by the triangle formed between the speaker, listener and floor reflection comes down in frequency and once the woofer is high enough it moves into the operating range of the woofer. In practice it's more complex than that because there are numerous reflections in numerous directions (infinite really) that are all adding together in a complex way. It's possible to simulate this in software and virtually place speakers and listener in a virtual room and see what effect it would have on the frequency response of an anechoically flat speaker at low frequencies. The summary is that the woofer close to the floor will have the least amount of suck-out in the upper bass while a high mounted woofer will have a response that starts sloping down above approximately 70-80Hz, (ignoring peaks relating to room modes) and have a significant suck-out typically somewhere between 100-200Hz, and this can be anywhere from 3-6dB or so. Although the exact frequency and depth of the suck-out varies, the trend is pretty universal in living room sized rooms. (distance from rear and side walls has an effect too) So in a 2 way with a high mounted woofer you do want a bit of a hump in this upper bass area to compensate, but it never works quite as well in this regard as simply using a 3 way with a low mounted woofer that avoids the problem in the first place, IMHO, and it's one reason I prefer 3 ways even though I currently use 2 ways.

[@seanb3303]

@@dbmandrake thanks for explaining. This dip is so frustrating…it’s above the subwoofer crossover…it’s a null so PEQ is likely more harm than good…can’t practically treat the floor bounce. Most towers still mount bass woofers high…including KEF.

[@wallycunningham5090]

Seems like a great surround speaker. Not crazy expensive, great controlled directivity for aiming, EQ-able, distortion and total output volume shouldn't be so important etc.

[@mariocassar3117]

Great review Erin. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, BUT that mid range irregularity is disturbing for me.

[@cremersalex]

In the olden days, the Pioneer 'Loudness' switch added a boost around 100 Hz and 10.000 Hz. At least, that was what the manuals said.

[@sk9592]

What you said about the 1st order harmonic being able to "fake" deeper bass really resonated with me (pun intended). I have a pair of old compact KEF HTS3001SE. I've notice the exact same thing with kick drums feeling full and impactful. Even though when I measured these smaller speakers, their output falls off a cliff below ~90Hz. They have a decent 120Hz bump to them. I didn't understand why I seemed to be hearing more bass than was showing up in the measurements. I never associated that upper bass bump and harmonics in that region with this, but it makes sense now that you explain it.

[@EverythingisFire]

Thanks for the review! I hope the Q1 Meta review is coming soon too. Trying to see whether to jump on the Q150 that are closing out for $300-350 or go with the updated version.

[@neps4th]

@@EverythingisFire Get Q350s instead. They are noticeably more capable in the bass. I have them; after listening to my LS50 metas, I go back to my Q350 and enjoy listening more. I also have a pair of R3 which are much better yet.

[@sebastiantill8019]

Thanks a lot Erin. I am pretty sure many people were curious how well the new inexpensive products from KEF do perform. You could save yourself the repeated descriptions of the SPL's for the MD plots by simply copying&pasting an ever same color index into the Klippel MD plot image.

[@juliangst]

Looks like this kind of Uni-Q Driver only has received minor changes. It would be interesting to see how the other new 4" Uni-Q driver of the Q Concerto measures.

[@imqqmi]

Might be diffraction off the edges, those dips around 1khz, and the speaker is about in the center of the cabinet as well. Rounded edges should improve this.

[@Matt-yn8dv]

I think you are likely correct.

[@thehighcontemplator2200]

Keep up the great work, Erin. I hope you get to measure and test something from the new Arendal 1528 series.

[@Rowuk2024]

The jagged response at 1K looks like diffraction from the sides. Adding a couple pieces of half round to round off the baffle sides could help. I believe that the contour plot shows the extensive diffraction at 1K.

[@davidfuller581]

The midrange resonances are wild. Multitone too. Yikes.

[@Woot-Zee]

Damn, the on wall Q4 looks interesting for me(among these new releases of KEF) . I would love to see what Kef does for a on wall speaker :D

[@foxgaming76yt24]

I'm curious how the Concerto is like, is that in the pipeline or does KEF have no intention sending a set over?

[@JoseFerreira-zb7wh]

would be interested in those too. Hoping for a poor man's r3 meta. 🤞

[@1337sim1]

​@@JoseFerreira-zb7wh you're not the only one!!! Let's hope it is the case.

[@callavaro]

Seems to me Kef doesn't want to be competitive with selling good speakers in this price range and are content on riding on marketing from their higher tier, actually good speakers.

[@seanb3303]

They don’t want to cannibalize their sales of higher margin products…Danny can fix the response errors with a kit.

[@CC-xu2yz]

@@seanb3303 🤣🤣🤣

[@john2335]

​@@seanb3303Danny will totally dissolve all them nasty surround resonances, imd and compression with via employing tube connectors & engorged air cored coils on the woofer.

[@vinylcabasse]

@@seanb3303 danny "tube connectors" richie... lol, naah. built one of his kits and was very unimpressed.

[@junior-OG]

@@CC-xu2yz 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@psyphonyxaudio]

Have the 3 way Q Concerto on deck? ... those would be nice to see versus the extensive work you've done on the R3 models.

[@mattjones7547]

I'm very curious as well, love the R3s

[@cseland]

Same!

[@Nightjar726]

That’s EXACTLY what I do for mid bass as well. Plus I like a touch more mid bass.

[@JR-ho5qm]

I think allot of us would like to see if some of these issues disappear as you move up the line when the speakers have dedicated bass drivers. Like the Concerto or Q11

[@Sc2God724]

I like the new vibe of this channel seems like he's finally toning down the bashing and offering more tips

[@tylerrynberg]

Looks pretty good overall but multi-tone is high even at low output levels.

[@matt34003434]

Yeah, even for the low asking price, there are better options.

[@MadLadsAnonymous]

@@matt34003434What are some options you'd recommend in the same price bracket?

[@BobbyBass-x6i]

Thanks for the review. I’ve read a lot about these. Great to see the data and hear your listening impressions. Keep up the unbiased reviews. Rock on!

[@resottolamontagna904]

When you say the specs of the product, I suggest to add them in the video, a list with all the specs that appears on screen.

[@ShazeemKhan]

Ah a fellow MJ fan, awesome! Great album too. Lol yeah the kick drums in those songs are awesome. I also like Eagles - Hotel California (live) & 10,000 Maniacs - Because The Night, among many others. Love the reviews, vidies & their contents. Greetings from Trinidad❤😊

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

I like those as well. Specially the MTV Unplugged version of Because the Night.

[@jasonhilliker2266]

I wish someone would review the Technics SB-C600-K or SB-C700-K Bookshelf, would be an interesting head to head with the KEF

[@ron5493]

Absolutely Peerless work here, Erin! Keep it up.

[@pinusmasterful]

Thanks for your data Erin!

[@davidarnold4213]

Tweeter is in a different league than the woofer

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

Wonder if this gets fixed when you go up to the ones that have dedicated bass drivers.

[@reallyeffingcooltechnodude]

@@JoelHernandez-tz3vk The new three-way Q series speakers have a different, smaller Uni-Q driver than the Q3 and Q1 so we'll have to wait for the measurements. My guess is the three-ways perform better than the smaller two-way models.

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

@reallyeffingcooltechnodude Presumably more specialized due to smaller size which again, possible thanks to having a dedicated bass driver taking care of roughly 450Hz on average and under according to their own specs. The midrange seems to cross roughly at 2.6kHz on average to the 0.75" tweeter. 3-way with dedicated bass driver(s) and a coaxial mid/high has always been a dream setup for me so I always find it a bummer that it's a fairly rare setup.

[@stormtrooper9404]

@@JoelHernandez-tz3vkYou can still fake that! Ls50 meta, with a good servo-sub, and amp with high/low-pass filter. I doubt that a tower with dedicated bass drivers can be better than that 🤷🏼 (at least if we are normal ppl)

[@JoelHernandez-tz3vk]

@@stormtrooper9404 To my understanding. That's extremely difficult if not nearly impossible to get right, mainly because subwoofers deal with VERY different problems than the rest of the frequency range and as a result, is far better to have the subwoofer ONLY do subwoofer duty. Which by extension, at least to me, is far more preferable to have a 4-way system if subwoofer is also included. TL;DR: It's not a driver problem, it's a room problem.

[@neps4th]

Did you notice the 'port bungs' have a pull out center?? Danny didn't either. Pull out the centers and see what happens !

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

I did. Frankly, I didn’t see the benefit in testing those, too as one can surmise the response is somewhere between the two examples provided and I’ve got many other items to test whilst balancing my time.

[@neps4th]

@@ErinsAudioCorner There is a difference between too much and too little. I don't think this speaker was meant to be run as a closed air suspension. I use these on 9 different speakers; 6 pairs of Kefs. I discard the centers right away! Don't get me wrong; you do great work!

[@JohnSmith-qi6co]

Erin, you are the BEST, but please always have the amount of smoothing indicated on all freq resp graphs. Again you are the best and pretty much only reviewer I trust on speaker measurements. Thanks for the hard work.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Per CTA-2034 the smoothing is 1/20. Always.

[@JohnSmith-qi6co]

@@ErinsAudioCorner Got it. Thanks Erin! 1/20

[@sandeepjohny6480]

Great information you shared Expecting the tower review of same series

[@AH-ps1bb]

a great and detailed data driven review as always 👍

[@yottabyter]

Some copium going in the comments here. This isn't great, I'd expect better.

[@solacedagony1234]

I looked through the comments to see what people were contesting and I haven't found a single comment yet. Coping about what?

[@asdf072xxp]

120hz pseudo bass bump. That Bose/B&O sound.

[@raphaelmeillat8527]

Great review Erin. Thanks for making this video!

[@shipsahoy1793]

wow I've seen better bookshelf speakers that weren't coaxial in this price range and less; so not impressed.. Thanks for the heads up, Erin!

[@duchieu235]

looks kinda mid for $800. hope you're reviewing the new moondrop speakers

[@amazoidal]

I'm sure Danny Richie will fix this.

[@Tendervittle]

Love Dannie’s hair

[@AbsoluteFidelity]

The midrange, where the soul of music lies IMO, is pretty screwed. And that boosted bass just like what the older model has? Just sounds muffled to me. I'm disappointed with KEF this time. I will also not listen to coaxials (read: KEFs) directly on axis, it is usually around 20 degrees off axis, like my old LS50s. A hard pass. You get what you pay is true with KEFs. Now the Arendal 1528 bookshelves, thats what I want to see against the measured Perlisten S4B. Different price category of course. By the way Erin, have you released the Elac's measurements publicly?

[@mrholmesly]

lmao, this is a joke for 799. DBR 62. Nice review tho.

[@alexw890]

Erin, does the inner edge of the cutout have a round over? What you’re seeing at 1k might be diffraction off that inside edge?

[@jrgroberts]

KEF have always been popular but I never liked them much (the drivers used to be good when sold apart). I don't understand why I'd buy these speakers at that price. Naff.

[@scdude9509]

I suggested a couple of times to review the KEF Q350. I own a pair and they are amazing speakers for mid volume listening, especially with EQ. Comparing the graphs (ASR Kippel Q350 measurements), the Q350 actually graphs better, and they sell for less than 400 eurodollars. The only thing against the Q350 is that it has the bass hump going slightly higher in frequency, which adds a bit of mud, but this is nothing EQ won't fix. Personally, if I was to make a purchase decision, I wouldn't pay the full $700 for the new model for a plastic disc behind the tweeter. I would rather put that money towards having the ability to EQ. Looking forward to seeing the KEF Q Concerto. :)

[@losriosprofundos2113]

I loved the Q350, especially the bass, but felt like the midrange was lacking, which is what’s the most important

[@scdude9509]

@@losriosprofundos2113 I would recommend to get a Umik-1 and something that give you the ability to EQ. After a set of speakers with good directivity (like the Q350s), it's the best investment into hifi you can make.

[@John-ok8ts]

I have the Q350s and these sound very similar. I actually EQ the little 120Hz bump down and I use the port plugs. One day I plan on replacing them with 3 R6 Metas. btw I don't go above 80db at all although I'm at more like 10feet and I use subs.

[@Time-Travelling-Lesbian]

Damn this measures worse than the Q350 on ASR, it has almost the exact same issues and resonances but much more pronounced and the high frequency is peakier and less smooth than the Q350

[@John-ok8ts]

I have the Q350 and I can't do measurements like this but it sounds very similar to what I experience. Decent speakers but I definitely want to upgrade to Kef's R line one day.

[@DearSX]

Looks like a great all-round speaker. Especially when they go on sale :)

[@aliboyaliboy6825]

This guy's speaker reviews are a benchmark by which other reviewers be it in YT or somewhere else should emulate. After hearing him the first time, it's hard to go back and listen to the "usual" reviewers.

[@sk9592]

I know you said that the resonances were not audible to you, but what would would be the best way to mitigate them if you wanted to? In addition to stuffing the cabinet with more poly-fil, would adding any bracing help? I've seen this help quite a bit with enhancing the performance of 1970s speakers that were essentially just big hollow boxes like the Pioneer HPM-100.

[@apmihai82]

not great just good. that 1khz area is not good and limits output. Hope you review the concertos. thanks Erin

[@SylviaVanderlay]

Thank you very much Erin! Great job! Since it is often the case that speakers profit from having a subwoofer and being relieved from the lowest frequencies, do you think it might be possible to explain the main concepts one should keep in mind when integrating a sub? (polarity, placement, time delay,...)

[@brydon10]

Does the Q350 measure better than this? I'm thinking it does.

[@HobbyTalk]

Where it matters ya, I think you’re right

[@Time-Travelling-Lesbian]

It does look at the data on ASR for the Q350.

[@brydon10]

@@Time-Travelling-Lesbian Yea, pretty much. Hopefully the Q3 Meta's are more durable. I've seen many damaged Q150/350's on the internet.

[@liamporter1137]

Nice. Thanks for sharing.

[@HobbyTalk]

Q350 has that 120hz bump too and it’s really nice…

[@losriosprofundos2113]

I LOVE the bass on the Q 350s

[@rolandd5397]

I dont know. It seems I see this kind of speakers with this kind of drivers being for sale all the time.

[@ryanflemingdesign]

How do the Q Metas compare to the previous Q line

[@losriosprofundos2113]

That’s my question? I really liked the Q150 and 350, An improvement in the midrange would make a wonderful speaker

[@MechAdv]

These are the same price as the CCB-8 from HSU research. The measurements that Audioholics did on the HSU makes it look far more attractive than this.

[@DjBlaaack]

If you had to choose between these and the b&w 606’s, which one would you?

[@r423sdex]

What’s the point of this speaker ?. Why bother wasting time actually making it. KEF what are you thinking.

[@twitchbook-1]

thanks

[@nick_yt23]

With a subwoofer around 60-80 hz and at a moderate listening level would they perform differently than Ls50?

[@stefpichette7742]

Hi!! Juste a question!! do you see a problem using speakers upsidedown juste because my stand are to high but good upsidedown i have Kef 104ab

[@ADREISTER]

thanks! 🤩

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

Welcome!

[@ProfessorJohnSmith]

what determines how sharp and pin point the imaging is?

[@justinbeamon6624]

This seems totally backwards from the last gen Q series. Makes no sense.

[@matt34003434]

I would have perferred they sacrifced some extension for output for use as multi-use HT/music speaker.

[@shaymcquaid]

Thanks Eric

[@officialchill1706]

10:36 90dB at 10 METRES away?

[@CC-xu2yz]

Pretty sure he meant 10 feet or 3 meters.

[@aaronschen9896]

Watching your vids for a while and I am starting to think you like MJ Thriller album

[@peniku8]

Hi Erin, sorry if you answered this in another video before but does your multitone test use a white or a pink spectrum multitone?

[@teknolojigundemi]

What are kef ls50 meta, r3 meta, this and blade 2 driver's differences? All has same co-axial driver.

[@MyFatherLoves]

They may look the same but as the price increase, so does the SPL without a gain in distortion. So, basically SPL and low-end extension gains while keeping distortion very low.

[@ErinsAudioCorner]

They have different drive units. You’d have to look at their whitepapers to know the differences because I don’t know them all myself.

[@edgarortiz4681]

Legitimate question. There is a huge swing in price for these models and I want to know if it's the exact same driver.

[@MyFatherLoves]

@@edgarortiz4681 they are not. They’re similar but they’re beefed up with each cost upgrade. You’d have to read the white papers they provide for exact detail.

[@IrenESorius]

👍‍‍🌟👍‍‍

[@r2d3vadar92]

Any Engineers here? Can someone Please explain why my $1.500 4 way full range towers from 2007, sound better than every speaker I have auditioned under 8000.00? I understand my JBL's debuted in 2007, trickle down tech form the Pro series, in-house by Harmon/JBL - world class engineers at the time. Speakers have gotten so expensive or did people just get used to low hifi for hifi prices? Seriously I have auditioned mofi 8/10's, Keff R, Lintons, KLH, Aura 2's, and the list goes on. Seriously, I wanted to purchase new speakers after 17yrs. but I do not want to side grade and at best the speakers I heard were a side grade at best. My budget cannot go over 8000 so I feel stuck or I am lucky?

[@CashGravel]

lucky. tbh i think quality is up and cost down for mid fi stuff. my 400$ b and w spkrs from 81 are garbage compared to similar priced units when inflation adjusted.

[@r2d3vadar92]

@@CashGravel Good point. Thanks.

[@reallyeffingcooltechnodude]

You could've grown so accustomed to your speakers' sound that anything different sounds subjectively worse? Have you auditioned the speakers in the same room or at hifi dealers?

[@r2d3vadar92]

@@reallyeffingcooltechnodude All in hifi dealer and two - the more expensive ones at home and returned them. I do have proper speaker set up and room treatment.

[@misterzero8667]

Try borressen speaker ,focal kanta ,Arundel ,sonus Faber plenty of good speakers out there open your ears

[@Greg-xj3kb]

i dont get it why dont you just shill product

[@antoniomarsicola8608]

Hi Erin great job! Would Kef give you any of the Q series floorstanders for testing?

[@DougMen1]

Very disappointing. I was hoping more for a cheaper R3, but it doesn't live up to that at all. I think your data of the older Q150 looked better than these.