Harold Feinstein :: Is Photography Art?

Well its been a big week. I've been in Boston working with Harold Feinstein on what turned out to be almost 4 hours of video interviews with this amazing photographer.
We're quickly turning this into a retrospective documentary on Harold Feinstein's life and work. He's an amazing man who's had one of the most amazing careers a photographer could ask for spanning nearly 70 years.
Today I'm going to give you a teaser just so you have an idea of how cool this project is going to be when its done.
On one of the days I was interviewing Harold, the news broke of Peter Lik's photograph that sold for $6.5 million. As I'm sure most of you know, an argument of largely click bait ensued at the always classy Guardian over whether or not photography could be considered art.
As I started getting emails and tweets from people asking me to talk about this, I realized this was a good one to ask Harold about.
theartofphotogr...
/ tedforbes
/ tedforbes

[@theloudtenor]

"We live within a miracle, and we don't appreciate it." This quote speaks to me so deeply!

[@ChristineWilsonPhotography]

He died in 2015 , how fortunate you were to be able to talk to him, fabulous insights.

[@deckard578]

his answer gave me shivers, he's incredible thank you Ted for taking the time to do this interview

[@weaverl43]

Thanks so much for creating your channel which I enjoy immensely. I had the great fortune of taking a class from Harold in the 60’s. He was a young man then bursting with energy and empathy. He had us shooting with Olympus Pen half-frame cameras. We had to make prints which he would hold up and critique with great inside and charity.

[@theartofphotography]

Great story!! He was one of a kind.

[@NoBrains456]

I can't be more grateful for all of your videos. Please, please don't stop making them. They are all making me feel so refreshed. Every time i start one, i have to pause it two minutes in to sit back and think, then i write down some things, then i keep watching and so on. Your channel is an invaluable resource for me, and it has has sent me in many different creative directions. I owe you.

[@lauracaptaintv]

Hello Ted. You were so blessed to be able to meet and talk with Harold before he passed away. May he rest in peace. He was an amazing photographer and his photos make me want to visit Coney Island.

[@davidallison4031]

What a wonderful, warm,caring, talented and inspirational person Harold was, my greatest regret is that i was not introduced to his work sooner. He was truly a great photographer, teacher and human being. I suspect that if he was less humble, less caring, and more egotistical we would all have known his name, but that would have changed the beauty of his being. A sad loss, I hope he gets his second life to learn some more and teach like no other teacher.

[@Ralf_Baron]

Ted, thank you for making this available to us. It is wonderful to see how respectful you approach Harold Feinstein. Thank you!

[@johncampbell335]

I have this debate with people on a regular basis. Because photography is such a unique blending of science and art, I can understand how casual shooters [or non-shooters] can think of it as a simple task and not as art. I can see their side, even though it's not the whole story. My images took a major turn for the better when I had the self-realization that I am, in fact, creating art. It made me put a sharper focus [pardon the pun] on my skills, my planning, my choice of subjects, post-production - the whole gamut of my workflow changed when I had that epiphany. I suddenly felt an obligation to raise my own bar. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the interview. Keep up the great content, and have an awesome holiday season.

[@kratzmattenkatze8688]

depending on the photographer a picture/photograph can be much more than a simple record of reality

[@jesusisthetruth4497]

John Campbell wow :)

[@feny8]

I am a painter and a photographer. And yes of course photography is an art. But painting is a whole other monster. I think photography is a much “easier” art form. I mean yeah you go out one night catch an amazing picture, and boom you now have a masterpiece. I’d say it took me about a month of practice with photoshop and learning the settings to take great pics that look professional. With painting, it took me years, a decade to get this good.

[@jadeforest4441]

Thank you all so much for sharing this with me, an Older beginner in photography. IT is really awesome to be able to learn a lot about the Feinsteins and to listen to Harolds view on the art of ...... P ❤️❤️ I can imaginaire that you are so happy to be there and make this all happen for us, YOUR followers. My deepest bow to you Ted😍.... see you... later☺️

[@mannyv.2769]

"What do you expect of art? What do you want from it? If you're painting for the joy of it, then you're already getting paid to some extent." -Harold Feinstein Wow!!!💗🤙🏼

[@bcomhaire]

There are two aspect to any form of art: The craft of using the instruments that will produce the art(ifact) and the art itself which is the result of using the aforementioned craft. I think people sometimes tend to mix-up the two. Great show (as usual), looking forward to the rest of the interview!

[@chinsebastian1986]

Thank you very much for works like this. Glad you introduced Harold Feinstein to me.I really hope you will interview Fan Ho one day too!

[@JackieKramer]

Thanks!

[@theartofphotography]

Thank YOU!

[@heilandgunner]

Ted, your podcast has always been an inspiration to me as a purely amateur photographer. The art of photography is what it's all about and I always look forward to learning something new from you in regard to the seminal figures in this field. Now, I think you've surpassed yourself with this interview. Harold is an amazingnly intelligent and articulate person. I could listen to him for hours and can't wait for more. Thank you so much for doing this series. Please keep up the excellent work. If you're ever planning to visit Scotland, please do a photo walk or meet and greet.

[@DanDanBlvd]

Such humility I can only dream of. He speaks a different truth; most of us will never get to in our lifetime.

[@moidutoiphotography8427]

What a sweet, sweet man and I'm so sorry to have learned of his passing last year. Although based on his attitude, he's probably in another dimension champing at the bit to get working on his next incarnation. Thanks Ted that was a treat.xxx

[@zionJeon]

I remember when I first started with photography and I came across a Glenn Mcduffie documentary where he mentioned that photography is not art because it is literal, there is no imagination involved. And this statement always bugled me because I didn't agree. As I went further, I realized that there are much imagination involved. Especially doing film, I truly understood how much imagination it takes to take one picture. Different film, apperture, shutter speed, and much more gives a different picture! Wow! And what about printing, that's also makes a difference in how a image appears on page (Ansel Adams). I hope this is understood before anyone calls photography not an art. But, I find it so cool that Harold looks further in the question, not "wasting time" in my opinion, and truly looking at the important aspects of art and photography. I love his way of thinking. What an awesome guy!

[@NanoScaperYT]

We live within a miracle and we don't appreciate it, and that's sad. Absolutely loved this teaser, Can't wait for the whole thing. Amazing work!

[@rhykko77]

I have been a pro photographer for over 20 years and though I don't always agree on all of your views, I learn a lot from your presentations, and am very glad I have subscribed to your wonderful channel !

[@RavenclawFtW3295]

One thing that I think we need to remember when talking about whether photography is art or not is that before photography came along, painting, drawing, and sculpting were the mediums you had to use if you wanted to create a true-to-life representation of someone or something. Were the images idealized? Very often they were, but when you look at a painting of, for example, Napoleon Bonaparte you would know that it's Napoleon Bonaparte. Same thing if someone wanted to paint a portrait of a king, a famous landscape, or of an entertainer. Then photography came along, and it created true-to-life images better than any painting ever could. Photographs are also idealized in many ways, too. Just think of Olan Mills when people paid to have their picture taken for a Christmas card, or to hang in their home. People would be posed, the photographer would get to know the camera, and then use the tools and settings at his disposal to create an excellent portrait for family and friends to see.

[@nlanca1]

Ted, you are right to be excited. The show is just getting better and better and I look forward to seeing the whole interview.

[@kerhst]

Excellent. Can't wait to see more from him. I'd still like to see you dissect and refute, piece by piece, the idea that photography isn't an art. Your calm way would really add to the strength of the arguments.

[@DrunkDelilahBrewery]

Ted, excellent production value, I know folk might (rightly so) say I'm missing the content by making such comments - I'm not, but I just wanted to comment on how pro your shows look. I love your new direction and can't wait until I tune in weekly to a 1 hour show (or more). Really looking forwards to the full shows. Well done pal.

[@MrKikoboy]

this is super to see what you have been able to do and accomplish since going full time with this - can't wait to see the rest and what the future holds as well - great work Ted...

[@theartofphotography]

Thanks!!

[@jiteshrohra]

He seems to be a very gentle being... looking forward to the whole interview...

[@WorldTurndUpsideDown]

Can't wait for the rest. I think a lot of this has to do with the average photo viewer being unable to tell a good photo from a great one. It gives people the impression that just snapping a photo is all there is to it.

[@Jijohann]

Well done Ted! This is amazing, I hope you will get to make more and more interviews! Your channel is one of the the best reference in terms of photography, as well as videography.

[@xperience-media7396]

He made an important point in that in the act of creation an artist is already being rewarded.

[@aaro1268]

Not all photos are art; the ones many people take are simply records of a moment. Artists with cameras produce not photographs, but art. They can captivate the mind by telling a visual story. They preserve the art of everyday moments and ordinary objects.

[@himanshupanchal7917]

Look forward to full interview!

[@KokohNicky]

I looooooooove the bit about the brush. Love it.

[@woodandmetalandstuff]

5.40 The quote of the year, wisdom beyond age

[@RRLiveAndDirect]

Very Wise Counsels. "We Live Within A Miracle"

[@FabioCoelhovideo]

I just love how impressed you are ted. It says a lot about you... amazing, thank you.

[@alxdeu2008]

You are doing such a great job, i respect you dearly, your work is my addiction, and you opened another window into a parallel universe in photography ,thank you for being there and your great work,,,,

[@TomyvindHogstad]

I have to chime in and join the choir: Can not wait for the rest! What a great person, still so humble and curious about life, being above 80 years old. On a side note: It is a little bit annoying the beard scratching against the zipper og Feinsteins sweater.

[@susanfisher4551]

Wondering if the documentary on Harold Feinstein has been completed? I would love to see more!

[@strtbaxt]

Thanks Ted. Harold sounds like a wise man, looking forward to seeing the full interview!

[@choschoschosRE]

Hi Ted, was wondering - where is the rest of the interview? thanks for everything

[@MoisheLettvin]

This was truly delightful; thank you both.

[@mcol3]

Absolutely great stuff! About the beard scratching the microphone, is that fixable with some low/highpass filter?

[@TheBiggervern]

Thank you Ted and Mr Feinstein.

[@jesusisthetruth4497]

Vernon Nash :))

[@markharris5771]

Fascinating video, right up there with your best. I've had the subject art v objectivity elsewhere and I won't rehash it here but I challenge the Guardian columnists to take one photograph that will be hung in any exhibition on its own merit.

[@vfljqkndsgphsjn]

hey ted, was the rest of the interview released? i cant find it...

[@blooma116]

Nice MS-20! Perhaps there is an interesting connection in what Harold said about a sable brush to the "pure" sound of a synthesizer... Is music art? I think the most interesting aspect of the "art or technology" debate is found by tracing the etymology of of the word technology: techno, which is the Greek word for art. When considered that way, it kind of makes the whole debate seem silly. The more fascinating question to me is where the boundary lies between the artist, his/her tools, and the work created.

[@ShelpR]

In my opinion, Mr. Feinstein hit the nail right on the head in reference to the painter and the paintbrush.

[@slothsarecool]

***** barely, at the end of the day anything that can be appreciated is art. That doesn't mean it's skillful, but it is art. I know people who paint based on photographs, to me that is skill, not art, it's simply a dull replication.

[@slothsarecool]

***** that'll never be more than a subjective view. Art is what people make it, many people will disagree with you.

[@NickAuskeur1]

***** Watched that video. You seemed in such a muddle with your opinion and I couldn't help facepalming at the "profound" statement..it's not really all that profound. A quick investigation into fine-art photography should answer the "pregiven reality" point you were trying to make (10.33 to 10.48 is basically describing fine-art photography), which seemed to be the crux of your argument. The previsualisation, planning, creating and "willing" it to happen, medium choice and finally production of a fine art photograph seems to fit your notion of what art is. So, by understanding photography from this point of view (the realm of fine-art), maybe then the artisitc nuances (some of which are such a fine line from being technical exercises that I understand why it's such a commonly debated subject) of other sub genres of photography, such as street photography, may become more apparent to you. The previsualisation, planning, creating and "willing" for an image to happen are in no way as obvious in street photography than fine-art, but the human mind has still instigated the creation of the image rather more than just waiting and pressing a button as you suggest. Possibly that's all you think it is when you take your own images, and I get that, I've been there myself in the past.

[@LaZanyarr]

Where can i find the whole interview/documentary about his life?

[@timheubeckphoto]

Taking KZbin to a new level! Thanks so much for all your efforts Ted :) very excited for more videos.

[@jesusisthetruth4497]

Tim Heubeck :))

[@nigelkibble]

Amazing interview can't wait to see the complete work he is a fascinating guy

[@ronshatzki6090]

Blown away. Thanks

[@dinosaurfilms7425]

Such a sweet, wise old man

[@Bemthewalrus]

Wow.. wisdom with age.. great comments rebutting the columnists

[@jcnash02]

Great interview and great statements. theartofphotography Ted, can you do a low pass filter up at like 5-10K to get rid of that crackle sound? just set it to 20K, then sweep down until its gone. Be careful of the vocal though. I have to ask if you showed him some of your work too. :)

[@CandidCountry]

Fantastic interview! Loved this sneak peak!

[@diordrama]

Wow, looking forward to this Ted!

[@jmedinar]

You cannot make a technique or a tool ART... Either in photography, painting, sculpture or any other art representation... what makes it art is the MESSAGE and the vision of the artist. Is subjective to the viewer not to the artist. No one can tell you what is art but you can tell what you feel. How that photograph or painting fills that empty space in you. Then there is ART!.

[@jesusisthetruth4497]

Juan Medina :))

[@brianjrichman]

Interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest...

[@theartofphotography]

Brian Richman Thanks Brian

[@traintrambus]

Mr Forbes, your channel is bringing to you tube some class interviews which I very much enjoy. Thank you very much. Michael Cook.

[@Cubo1d]

Great video! Is that a Korg MS-20 in the background?

[@davidrothschild8913]

Amazing stuff Ted. Is that a Moog or Korg Synth. If your ever in DC we need to jam:)

[@MrPw20]

Thank's Ted, I can't wait to see the full show. Your doing some great work keep it up.

[@jesusisthetruth4497]

Paul Warren :))

[@24michaelmca]

More like this, Ted! Thank you!

[@Bobster986]

It's sad that your mic was placed too close to his beard that caused a rustling sound.

[@RicardoRMedina]

Thanks for sharing! I really enjoyed watching this episode!

[@theaudreycoley]

This was incredible!

[@Stikibits]

I almost bought a Peter Lik in Cairns for 1k. It was the size that stopped me buying it, but it was pretty impressive standing in front of such a massive print, I have to say. It's not hard to understand why Lik has had so much success, to be honest.

[@danielduarte8990]

well done Ted, well done sir!

[@jeffreyprokopowicz9842]

It isn't the medium that's art; it's the person (artist) using the medium.

[@overlander82]

Ted, please have words with the producer about the delay ;)

[@pedroesteves4671]

pretty cool. thank you so much

[@duncanfarrant2369]

ART that is the Question If you like something then that is a piece of art to you, just because other people may not get it does not mean its not Art... As he said is it the brush or the person (artist)

[@emendoz1]

This guy got me in his first line. Is it the artist or the expensive brush? Same argument could be made for cameras and lenses.

[@jeffersonsantiago5567]

more please!!. :)

[@butcherneck]

Awesome work Ted! :)

[@Akentrophyta]

A camera, software, a brush, a chisel, pigments, threads... it is all technology. What makes art is the artist.

[@coldpaint1537]

I don't find how a camera can be an art tool.

[@robertfutrell3973]

Is that a Moog in the background? Are you also a musician?

[@JeuneF]

“The reasons why I believe in reincarnation, is that I’ll need another life at least, to know everything there’s to know. We live within a miracle and we don’t appreciate it” Thank you 🙏🏼

[@northstar1950]

How dare any newspaper columnist state what art is or isn't, art is an indefinable subject, what is art to one person might not be to another. IMHO any object that is of joy to behold a painting, photograph, sculpture, photograph, woodworking, the list is endless can be considered as art.

[@LibanPhotography]

Beautiful video.

[@zenoc3460]

Awesome..........

[@alaskaflounderbasket]

And you did this for three days? How many sd cards do you have?

[@DavidMeyerPhoto]

As for the Guardian's guy, Jones, he wrote several articles about his disdain for photography as a form of art. And I think it's his way of grabbing attention. A curious thing, not long ago he had a completely different point of view, I've seen his articles praising the art of photography. So he's just putting a stick into an ant hill for some reason. As for Lik's photograph... well... I still believe there is something shady about it. Just to clarify, I'm totally happy with any photographer selling their work for any amount of money. The thing is that with this alleged sale, I'm not entirely sure it actually took place. Can't wait for the rest of the interview, this little preview was certainly promising.

[@theartofphotography]

David Meyer Damien Hirst had a similar thing a few years ago when he sold a diamond skull for the asking price of $100 million. Turns out it was bought by a consortium of which Hirst was in. In essence he helped purchase his own piece and it had a lot of publicity with no paper trail. It was discovered much later. Not saying Lik did that but - I agree - the shady part is when it becomes a PR thing. Selling a work is one thing, making it a PR move is the weird thing at that dollar level. The move is to make another wealthy collector think they have to have one too since its the hot new thing. I just find it weird. If its legit - hats of to Peter Lik. He IS a marketing expert despite what anyone thinks of his work. His work is also highly marketable which is why he's successful. There aren't many photographers who own 16 galleries or whatever he's up to now. Interesting stuff indeed.

[@DavidMeyerPhoto]

theartofphotography The images and the list of awards just don't stack up for me in the context of this sale. Not saying I'm an expert when it comes to art sales, not saying that all photography shown in respectable institutions is taking my breath away, but to me it makes no sense for somebody to invest such a sum of money into this particular print. And investments in art are generally not being made on a whim and in something that doesn't really stand out for some reason. But yeah, all the best to him anyway. I'll still take just a copy of a book such as "Workers" or "Genesis" by Salgado over that 6.5 million print. Any time.

[@ediwho_]

this is beautfiul

[@TRamone01]

we live within a miracle...

[@reach831]

wow

[@zenoc3460]

R.I.P............

[@Acquavallo]

I love Harold Feinstein after this video

[@happygarden9970]

The message by the reporter sounds like an annoying frustrated person who has not been recognised or been given credit for what he thinks he deserves and therefore lashes out with bold sweeping statements, but very good statements that makes one think about art and its importance. If you compare two pieces of work shot by two people, one being "Peter Lik" who knew and purposely set up a picture knowing what he was capturing was intentional and the message he was trying to get across turned out exactly what his planned for. The other person just had an "i.pad" and just happened to capture the same picture without much thought or intension but the picture turned out equally as stunning as Peter Lik's work. Then what image is more important, the pro camera image from an accomplished photographer or the i.pad person who was not known? They are both valuable works of art because they both move peoples emotions but surely Peter would have deserved more credit because of his intension and the planned thought behind the message that he already saw this image on a wall and knew how epic it would look. So Peter is part artist, smart business man, designer, an a lover of nature. The other person just loves his cool i.pad that seems to give him great images by clicking away, but he can't explain why or what he is looking for or what his intensions are, he just knows he is enjoying his i.pad. The chances this i.pad person could keep on capturing stunning images of the same quality and feeling is less likely if you are just hoping to capture an epic piece without any thought or intension behind your message. Art is credited to the one who who deeply understands the message and the intension and affects it will have to the human soul, he controls his skills and knows his tools and how he creates that skill and communication into a way of manipulating and stimulating our minds. Choice, intension, communication, and how the message is presented plays a huge role in the importance of the artist.

[@kloijhi]

wow you have MS20?

[@mzf11125]

He died at 2015

[@rodreleo]

nice!

[@francisjeffery1831]

You've got sensor scratches in this video.

[@swesleyharris]

To me art is s form of communication you either say something or are spoken to. What is a song without an instrument. Can you appreciate the skill to shape sound. Can you appreciate the skill to control light. When nothing is communicated you have no art. Love the video.

[@NicholasColdingDK]

What to say..

[@popwwrestling3940]

Anyone can learn to draw but not everyone can be an artist. The same with photography but I think drawing is above photography by a long shot. Specially when you draw from your mind. Since Drawing takes a lot of vision a photographer has the potential to become a very good pin up artist, but he chooses photography because it is not as skillful and does not take as much trial and error which at the end is dedication in my opinion. It is like comparing pin up drawing to animation. Animation takes more dedication and observation. Photography is an art but drawing is way above it. No disrespect to photographers.. With that said it depends on the talent of the photographer just like it depends on the talent of the pin up artist. A pin up artist is got to have a lot of talent though.

[@ericmoll8697]

Tony LBMontana Hey Tony, I'd have to disagree for some of your points for several reasons.1. No art is easier or harder to do then the other. It's all just different mediums that one can express to get onto something hard copy. 2. Wouldn't you say you can photograph from your mind too? Ideas and concepts take tons of vision and one thing that drawing doesn't have to do...LOGISTICS. You don't need to call 20 different models and stylists in order to create some photographs, or physically get the props and things you need to complete it. Photography is far much more then being a talented person, it takes alot of work, time and persistence to create truly amazing photographs. And another thing to take into account... the mechanics of how to utilize light and shadow to create an image, where the highlights are placed, where the shadows are placed is all the photographers responsibility and there has to be reason behind why they are the way they are. So like I said, it's not a pissing contest between artists within other mediums, but I'd regret to say "This is harder then drawing, or this is harder then photography." they're all similar in many ways.

[@popwwrestling3940]

In drawing you also have to know about shadows, depth and where they go. I still think Photography is not even close to drawing because drawing is a tough cookie especially when it come to drawing the anatomy against a background.

[@ericmoll8697]

So you're implying that photography is easy? Look, i'm not gonna argue with someone who's so close minded. I also never stated that drawings don't show shape, depth and form… However, you cannot say that photography doesn't take just as much time and effort into creating a great image then drawing does, they both take hard work and dedication...

[@popwwrestling3940]

Have you ever drawn professionally? Well here we go with the close minded arguments, what will be next? Photography looks simpler than a professional drawing. Try and draw anatomy from the mind and taking a picture of anatomy to see the difference.

[@ericmoll8697]

It looks simpler to you because you don't know what goes behind taking a good photograph or understanding, hence why you're close minded, and as an artist, that's an unhealthy trait to have.

[@kenho4ba]

Please do Kieth Carter next time.

[@TheNathanX100]

It's just pictures.

[@Neo-rl2kk]

Such a desperation by so many to be called artist’, and what they produce art. Like it is the most important and compelling thing about a craft. Oh and did I mention that Peter Lik guy....

[@echarters]

To be good, a photograph takes careful attention to science, technique, technology, and artistic vision. All art requires discipline and careful honing of the craft. That is is a seems more science based craft is perhaps due to the lack of understanding of how much craft is really necessary by the layman who has not studies the subject. Photography it only a bit more technological than perspective and figure painting. It is as instinctive in capture of the image juste as the much slower painters or sculptors rendering. But the results grab us non the less. And that is the intent of art, to touch the soul. We can appreciate the image created in its poetry and also the skill of the maker. No less than we do of the classic painter. The skills are entirely different, but great photographers just as rare as great painters it seems, so perhaps their art or skill is to be lauded as much. If you think not, then do better and get their supposed ill got acclaim in turn.