MASS Raven COUNTERS Everything? | Beating Grandmasters With Stupid Stuff

Today we try mass raven + ultra turtle mode
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[@luxon4]

the scenes of mass raven hunting down mass carrier with mass static turrets is the coolest sc2 battle ive seen for a long time

[@whateverppl1229]

yea, ketroc is always so defensive and typically doesnt chase like that so it's nice to see.

[@OsOkod]

the new tactic to win against AIR TOSS! :D

[@hermeticinstrumentalist6804]

I am very much inclined to agree.

[@joe6725]

New meta!

[@Sara_Feingold]

@@joe6725 Don't forget to armor missile your own ravens ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@talictdf4757]

Harstem: Has like 35 ravens Also Harstem: I know I need more ravens I came for stupid stuff and I was not disappointed 😊

[@jeeeeeeeeeeezus]

Pro tip: when repair is on autocast, you can amove SCVs and they will repair everything in the way. That way you can shift queue amove then back to mining, so they finish repairing everything then return to mining without you having to manually tell them to repair more shit whenever you have more things to repair.

[@granolacash3340]

He needs to see this!

[@Marxon1134]

Yoooooo

[@alesjaterka2155]

Isn't there a problem, where SCVs repair each other instead of ravens?

[@whateverppl1229]

@@alesjaterka2155 technically, but it isnt a problem. the problem is if there are buildings near by, they repair that also and then might not be close enough to repair the ravens.

[@frostytheape7741]

Is there a video of someone doing this? You almost never see pros repair when out on the map let alone like that they usually move back to their third or fourth base and pull some scv from mining for a bit

[@andreibelii2542]

That was a painful loss on Pride for me. It was tilting to loose to mass ravens. But life is not easy I guess... Never thought that I will be part of BGWSS, playing is not that fun as watching. But I like it

[@kristopherleslie8343]

I wouldn’t take it bad as only 25% or less of people can utilize it well in general

[@granolacash3340]

Lol we could tell you were tilted when you refused to leave the game for the last 10 minutes

[@JFox4587]

Once the tanks were gone, wouldn’t zealots just wreck his eco? I know hindsight is 20/20, but seemed like all he had was air defense on all his bases

[@andreibelii2542]

@@JFox4587 maybe you are right but I thought that planetaries with armor and mads repair is unbreakable. I think that Harsten is right, going into templars would be better

[@mikeballew3207]

You put up a really good fight. I imagine that the hardest part about playing a BGMWSS when you don't know you're playing against one is the strategy. In your mind, you have to think about what you will do to counter the raven. Against a sane opponent, you will also have to consider what they would do to your counter to the raven. But built into the BGMWSS, is the insanity that Harstem will just build more Ravens no matter what. If you knew that, you could exploit it, but when you don't know it, it becomes a mind game in his favor, as you are forced to consider counters that he will never employ. Guys like myself envy you. I will never be good enough to lose to something this gloriously silly. I know it was frustrating to play, but I hope you can think back on it fondly. This is instantly one of my favorite matchups ever.

[@RaynorsProphet]

That protoss guy is going to end up submitting an "is it imba" submission over those ravens lol

[@jonathondouglas9896]

Watching those ravens chase airtoss down for literally a minute throwing down endless streams is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen in SC2. Amazing.

[@Kanzuke]

Deploying turrets like his life depends on it with the occasional AA missile right into the centre of his raven clump, this was peak starcraft

[@yeoldmanriver4881]

25:45 -- This was one of the funniest scenes I've ever seen in SC2 and the silence of nothing but spam placing auto turrets is just the cherry on top.

[@geuros]

Mr. Harstem, what a delightful episode! I also believe that you forgot one of the most important upgrades for Ravens - the Corvid reactor which increases starting energy of Ravens by 25 to 75. Research available in tech lab of Starport. In such a crazy numbers of Ravens, that's a lot of free energy.

[@KamikazeWombat]

About 15 minutes in he does feed back maybe 4 of your Ravens. Would have been good if you didn't have 35 more in that pack lol. I think this may be my favorite one of these, so great

[@atticusbeachy3707]

Ketroc tactic vs carriers: burrow a handful of widow mines around a planetary fortress. The interceptors clump up attacking the PF, and the mines blow up most of them. Missile turrets can kill the rest.

[@Andrew-qu7lq]

and then also similar to what happened here, just run by and slaughter the mineral lines, carriers get starved and useless.

[@TacoMedic]

Yeah, Ketroc's games are hilarious. He basetrades in almost every fight. He will almost never actually fight toss air unless all Interceptors are gone. But every time toss attacks Ket's base, he just mass repairs planetary whilst detouring his ravens to slaughter a toss base or two. The base trade ends up being roughly equal in terms of resources lost, but the amount of time it takes to remax a toss air army (and all the lost interceptors) gives Ket time to take another 2 bases and build another 15 turrets. Every Ket game is a war of attrition. His APM is honestly pretty garbage and his micro reflects that. He has no business being above Gold 1, but his macro + WM map vision just makes him so enjoyable to watch and he wins most mid-late/late games.

[@CameronVanNatta]

Also put your missle turrets *behind* your planetaries, so that way the interceptors attack that instead. It takes so long to take down a planetary that you kill more interceptors that way

[@colossaldonut5190]

I'm just imagining this with the old Seeker Missile ability.

[@christopherrest8288]

Got an idea (somewhat new): "Beating 2on2 Masters while controlling 2 players" Basically the opposite of archon mode (more or less). You play 2on2 ladders games with another player. The other player instantly leaves each game, so that you have to play 2 players at once. I would like to see if you can make it to masters 1. And maybe, if it is too easy, do the same challenge in 3on3 or 4on4 and if that is still too easy, add "stupid stuff" tactics as well.

[@deepvoid2871]

i like the idea

[@christopherrest8288]

@@jujucasar2003 But he can't build units and buildings if the other player does not leave. The other player could give unit control, but as far as I know you can't build buildings then

[@BigPerm6999]

players leaving game to leave all resources to remaining player makes it super easy to cheese, happens alot on ladder!

[@mh1593]

In silver league a few years ago I lost to mass raven, and it's bizarre... it's like being abused by a clown; it's absolutely not funny I'm just left thinking "WTF?" That player clowned my ass hard.

[@seitavw]

23:04 absolutely hilarious understatement, thanks for not getting salty about it. great vid!

[@philipiannaco5431]

Harstem: I have different groups of ravens Me an intellectual: it's called a murder sir.

[@garnetg987]

Mass Raven + widow mine is one of the scariest cheeses I've come across in the lower leagues. Very difficult to counter if they're dotting the map with turrets as well.

[@JFox4587]

Captain, this episode had me rolling! Watching his army run away from ravens was super funny 🤣

[@Lq32332]

When is Harstem going to figure out there is an upgrade to give Ravens more starting energy?

[@OurayTheOwl]

Came here to say this.

[@monkeybusiness673]

Wait, I lost track of what happened...But are you telling me he won that second game without the Reactor?! O_O

[@JosephParker_Nottheboxer]

Does anyone remember the guy 9 years ago building mass overlords, pooping creep everywhere and dropping stuff from the overlords? You couldn't see anything on the ground so it ws nearly impossible to control. Harstem... try this... about 300 overlords.. blot out the sun... drop things.... laugh?

[@bookworm8415]

YES! This was a classic!

[@luckynumberslevin5936]

mass raven, hell yeah. Was suggesting this as well for a while, love to see it! ^^

[@hepcecob]

Please do a sequel, this was really fun to watch!

[@KataisTrash]

One minor detail I noticed, if you ever try this mass Raven strategy again: When you were hunting the Carriers, they were flying off back to base and your turrets only shot once or twice each. Instead, it might have been a better strategy to only drop one or two turrets during the chase, and only really unload when other Protos buildings are around; that way, the turrets would then swap to buildings and not stand around doing nothing. So basically, trying to push the fight back into the Protos base :)

[@GianniCampanale]

and i noticed he could place autoturrets a bit farther while chasing to have more hits before carriers go out of their range.

[@ricroflxD]

This last game reminds me of when I played a 1v1 with a friend in age of empires, I knew I had to go so I made a base in the corner of the map surrounded by forests and made a literal 6 building thick walls of turret/watchtower buildings walling off my single base in the corner of the map. I came back 1 hour later and my friend was still trying to get through the wall as the armycap was simply not big enough to amass a decent army to defeat the wall. I ended up sneakily making a barracks on another corner of the map, and sneak attacking his mainbase and decimate all his production just as he traded in his army once more to my wall. Needless to say it was a sweet victory.

[@HighLanderPonyYT]

Lmao, another good one. Dang, you're so fast. Those mass turret placements took less than a second.

[@champabay4746]

Incredible 😂 the fact that you anti armored yourself more than your opponent and still came out on top is the best

[@paulkeilman4888]

Using an anti-armor missle, before engaging with the Auto-turrets seems like a killer combo. In one of your fights a painted tempest was just absolutely melted. Also, auto turrets deal a set amount of damage. If you're attacking an undefended base you can calculate to number of turrets needed to kill it, so that you can save them for the main army.

[@ShawnyChao]

harstem: turrets cant even kill probes also harstem 10 minutes later: turrets are good holy crap!

[@VadimOm]

You should've asked Ketroc about mass raven, and not Heromarine

[@thomasb.5643]

Stupid ideas for you : - Siege mode, you build ridiculous amounts of static defense, transform SC2 into a real siege/huge contain, have several layers of cannons, batteries and pylons with a strong support army. Don't attack your opponent's main base until he starved, eg got no more minerals. - Lack of energy mode : your army can never leave pylon range, you must build pylons wherever you want to move your army to. - Toss A move only : no micro, you can only A move your army and macro - Protoss Swarm : have 120 workers, and swarm your opponent with gateway units only. - One unit battle : randomly pick one unit, you may only build that unit for the entire game - Diverse army : you cannot attack your opponent unless you have an army with every single Protoss unit - Sim City : build a ridiculous ammount of cities all throughout the map. For every unit you build you must have a little house for it (pylon, gateway, forge, ...).

[@hermeticinstrumentalist6804]

When you cheeto dust your own Ravens, it is the call of the Cheeto Rage, your ravens are in a frenzy! That is a hilarious as well as surprisingly efficient build. I really enjoyed seeing it. I find it hard to believe that they were not tilted, normally people would have already GG'd out. LOL. That was fun.

[@LauchEleven]

This was something I think I sae back in WoL. Some replays with players using mass ravens and the autoturrets. They could rip through everything

[@thalanoth]

lol remember how OP the 1-1-1 was because of the point defense drone lol. The only time I beat a grandmaster was with it lol

[@mehdimarashi1736]

In WoL I lost so many games to those stupid hunter seeker missiles and PDDs. If you let your opponent get to 10+ ravens you were gone. When did they remove them hunter seekers? Was it in HotS or before that?

[@mattr791]

Wol ravens were just built different

[@SaulGoodman3D2049]

@@mehdimarashi1736 Near the beginning of LotV all 3 raven abilities were changed. The auto-turret was replaced with a deployable mech repair drone which healed mech for free for 90 seconds. Eventually it got switched back to auto turret but seeker missile and PDD are still gone :( Still we have 6 full years of PDD and seeker missile being unchanged to look back on. Honestly pretty crazy it took as long for them to get removed as they did lol

[@megadeth-1a885]

here is a challenge - full zoom play. That would be near impossible.

[@SupremeVelocity01]

If it is stupid but it works it is not stupid. That said it's been a long time since i've seen any of this kind of stuff actually being played and it's a joy to watch.

[@phelanwolf6747]

I can already see the IODIS: "Raven OP!" XD

[@BarringtonDrive]

Loving the shoutout to Ketroc. Also, the Team Liquid assist with the BGWSS :D

[@gurpalgill8310]

The ravens hunting down the sky toss units with interference matrix and static turrets is the beta battle I’ve ever seen! Harstem looked so focused lol

[@Sirkento]

That was both pitiful and absolutely hilarious watching slow-moving Ravens relentlessly chasing retreating carriers and just unleashing turrets LOL it was like the carriers knew there was nothing they could do about it and they were just slowly going to fall

[@vitorh3568]

21:05 AUHuhauhaUhaUhAU exactly my reaction xD

[@guest273]

Alright, this style was epic. I want to see more mass ravens in BGMWSS! :D

[@jasonsnitch7208]

Please someone submit the second game to Bronze League Heroes that was one of the greatest displays of bronze league spirit in a GM game ever.

[@HeroADI1]

i lived to see carriers and tempests fleeing from a lot of ravens

[@89sharlo]

Wow, this was way better than I thought!

[@Luke540000]

Was really cool and funny to watch :D

[@mattkx100]

I’d love to watch some more of this

[@Rubashow]

When Ravens had Seeker Missile a player named Ketroc did this all the time. He turtled and expanded and just build mass raven. Worked like a charm.

[@miked3723]

I watched Beasty, so the whole game im waiting for the moment when you throw down 30 turrets in a fight and realize wait a minute this is overpowered AF.

[@lukefinley9836]

This was incredible!

[@lorenzgeiss9504]

one of the best ones so far

[@mirekmrazek8985]

FLORENCIO Files - Harstem Edition :)

[@NoahBB]

This is the Ketroc build if you want any tips. He's a North American player that is somewhat known for mass ravens + planetary fortresses.

[@Zach_Routhier]

From 25:51 and on I was laughing nonstop watching the Mass Raven army Interference Matrix the entire skytoss army while chasing them away with turret drops.

[@jason5811]

Virgin Toss Harstem: free units bad pls nerf Chad Terran Harstem: trrt go brrt

[@fate711]

NUKES!!! We want NUKES!!

[@mikeballew3207]

21:05 This was my exact reaction lol

[@UltimateNinjaSaga]

This was great!

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

harstem channels his inner ketroc and remember kids, this is after replacing seeker missile for dorito dust and swapping pd for disable

[@henningbreede6428]

Against carriers you want disable because carriers go through pdd, that used to be a pretty hard counter.

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

@@henningbreede6428 carrier disable doesn't prevent interceptors from shooting, it only prevents them from being made/shot out iirc?

[@asdfqwerty9241]

@@henningbreede6428 I don't think carriers would be any good against mass raven either way because the interceptors just all get shot down by the turrets. I actually think that carriers were pretty close to the worst unit that he could've tried to fight ravens with (other than units that can't hit air anyway).

[@TrueThanny]

FYI, Interference Matrix works on Archons, too. You can disable them rather than worry about their splash ruining your day.

[@Trades46]

Ah, the good old Ketroc build. Also, it helps that Ravens benefit from the High sec auto track upgrade as well as the reactor upgrade which gives them more energy when built & to store.

[@vuhdoo7486]

Maybe you could send this replay to Lowko, would be funny to see him cast it xD

[@whisped8145]

My favourite series on KZbin. Right after Fall of Civilizations.

[@eqsaz]

The duration is so short... these things lasted several minutes in Wings of Liberty. You could leave them in their base and if unattented they would happily level it. So sad :(.

[@biggali]

But turrets in WoL only did 8 damage a shot, turrets these days shoot for 18 a shot.

[@sebastianhansen6854]

The amount of energy our man Harstem is wasting killing absolutely nothing, because hes not planting enough or focus firing with the turrets. God damn XD

[@Nuggetheadification]

Classic diamond League strat, you know it when you see the planetary fortress in your opponents the expo :)

[@Maxmilian666]

Ketroc would be proud.

[@ThePeacemaker848]

very enjoyable to watch this one.

[@brunocer8149]

😂😂 Great episode!

[@cletusowns]

Mass Raven + Hellion/Hellbats syncs really well

[@friendofjim]

When you hit yourself with the anit-armor missile in his main it looked like BM :D

[@vangtk10]

Your first game, your main CC only had 5 SCVs mining gas. Your gas refinery in the north only had 2 miners. I think if you had 3, you would’ve been able to pump out more ravens.

[@jeice13]

Has there been any crossover between bgmwss and is it imba or do i suck?

[@danilshcherbakov2126]

BGMWSS idea, Critter zoo: For each base you take starting with your natural, you have to wall in a critter (your main or somewhere else on the map) with buildings

[@damedley75]

36:00 Over/under 0.5 losses more aggravating in Bas's entire life

[@AG.z]

really enjoyed to watch Ketroc few years ago and this one was also neat

[@gungan5822]

Are you pushing with Ravens or Fortresses?

[@whothis8889]

Hey Harstem, will you ever consider playing through Legacy of the Void (and possibly the other two compaigns if the videos do well)? I've always wanted to see how a Pro player could crush the campaigns on Brutal.

[@oliround]

You and your ability to make great content very quickly

[@qweytrop572]

I'd love to see another episode of mass raven

[@lynk_1240]

Next week on IODIS: Protoss Bas complains about Ravens being IMBA

[@produck11]

This is the most amazing thing I have ever seen

[@whatever8411]

That was very nice :) !

[@mehdimarashi1736]

I wish you had a look at the workers kill count as well, captain! I'm guessing 200 or something silly like that!

[@jrocker152]

Now I am like "must see IODIS" but that is the cold youtube consumer within me...

[@ledrash6079]

Haha, this was awesome!

[@chrisw.735]

This was wonderful.

[@leonardmilcin7798]

Your opponents be like "Oh... this guy again..."

[@andreashalbfeld7671]

You're a content MACHINE!

[@ebbethinggaard]

This was a lot of fun

[@dennisyoung6122]

Loev how Terran still has the free unit from the ravens while Zerg lost theirs in the Infested Terrans.

[@ivailoi123]

SUGGESTION: burrow 4 beanlings and 2 zerglings in oponent's 3rd base before it is taken, but without blocking it. Wait for workers transfer and detonate. Defend the all in.

[@BoneAppleTea]

26:56, I thought my screen went bananas

[@NDNRG9]

asw someone with no clue about buildorders and roles in SC2 i´d actually like to see some kind of mass liberator play, slowpushing and sieging up all the time

[@jeremyklein953]

Oh my god I've never been so excited

[@danholden2774]

Thinking about the IMBA form titled “Raven turret go brap”

[@rauljorquiera4922]

3:17 Bas is a word in French, it's the same as bass but without an "s"

[@merknarol2159]

floating 3.3k minerals and not being maxed out is terrible Harstem told me... :D

[@cobble3231]

Fun fact, Iba lost fairly recently (2 months ago maybe) to HeroMarine playing ravens *ONLY* ... Iba was 5.8 at the time. Puts things into perspective

[@aspotashev]

How about mines and ravens? The idea is to build mostly mines, get the burrow upgrade, build an armory, and also use ravens to snipe any observers (could be also done with scans though.)

[@joekster752]

You should check out BeastyQT’s Mines and Ravens to GM series. One of my personal favorites.

[@no1yourewrong]

how it must feel to lose to a player you watched anti armor missile himself multiple times

[@ProfessorPicke]

lmaooo pls do this a 2nd time this is great

[@Arachisage]

Who will win ?? The most advanced fleet of the most advanced and psychic race capable of plasma shields and psionic powers Monke turret go brrr