Has Blizzard Improved Healing In The War Within?

[@AutomaticJak]

Thanks to Factor75 for sponsoring today's video. Use my link to get 50% off and free shipping on your first Factor box, and 20% off your next month of orders! strms.net/factor75_automaticjak5930c

[@FeralKobold]

Just saying, huge fan of factor. I never get it without a code because it's too expensive normally but with a referral from a sponsor like this or the coupons they send in the mail it's super worth it and I highly recommend to everyone in the chat.

[@luuxii]

From st oneshots to 5man oneshots

[@AutomaticJak]

Yuuuuup

[@tommysvibe4484]

I am not alone to think that!!

[@AngryPomeranian]

You always have a choice of who will die.

[@YoshiJoshi1994]

A mate and I started The War Within coming from WOTLK classic as our last expac played. We wouldn't consider ourselves casual, but learning how to heal from heroics jumping into mythics was the most PTSD inducing thing having to deal with toxic players in pugs. I couldn't even begin to imagine a new non-wow player picking up healing ever, and if it seems impossible for a new player I truly believe it's a failure in tuning or game design. Give us more time to heal and less one-shot because of 1 missed kick christ.

[@kevinc8955]

It’s an awful game mode. There’s a reason the xpac falls off every single time at the same point…as soon as heroics are done, new players peace out. So much care and high quality work goes into raid bosses and m+ just seems like a clusterf*** of bad shoehorned design choices.

[@gibby230079]

healing has gotten complex for no reason at all. im sure it's for some people but i'm done after 14 years of healing. the last thing i want is to feel like i need a fucking shower after healing an M+. love your content!

[@TheGoldenAngel82]

You and me both :(

[@JrXie82]

In other words, "Are DPS players still trolling the game?"

[@SkagulTV]

thats like asking is water is wet.

[@TheGraveyarder]

healing might have changed, but pug dps will still always blame the healer

[@XAn0nymousX0]

And healers will blame everyone else for everything. The cycle of life continues....

[@phantasm5347]

Yeah... Especially when I use ice block, barrier, greater invis, healing pot on ONE MECHANIC, an UNAVOIDABLE dot on +13 and healer STILL isn't able to deal with it.... I'm sure that's DPS player trolling.

[@JrXie82]

@@phantasm5347 Which one is it? One mech needs that many defensives? Are you saying the DoT from the 1st boss in the Mist? 🤣🤣 We still have a lot of dps in the pug don't know where each DoTs coming from. It seems too many people in this expansion are boosted.

[@gpm135]

WTF, healing this seasons in mplus pugs is exhausting and many times depending on which healer I'm on, i can feel a bit helpless no matter how geared I am since I am dependent on kicks, cc's, and ppl personal defensive.

[@themInterwebs]

Coming from the +11 pug scene, I just feel like I have no agency if the group lives or dies.

[@dectocs]

You do, you’re just doing what you can reliably, and possibly better than other healers, but that doesn’t matter if the group you’re in isn’t using defensives ever or kicking reliably. All fun and games pugging until you run into 1 of the many dps out there playing the game casually at 10-12s, hyper focusing on dps and not utility. Or just not a consistent player due to intoxication

[@sanji2158]

I play resto shaman, and in 11 keys i am the boss. I feel like this is more of a Disc problem in pugs, and to a lesser extent pala and druid

[@txdmsk]

You are not the boss in 11 keys. If your players are not using their defensives and CCs and interrupts, then you can't do shit. Which is fine. It's a game design decision I would love if I had a talented team of friends to spam M+ with, but in PUGs it's just painful.

[@hampusnilsson7021]

In m+ I just feel like there are so many avenues of "ticking damage" where the ticks are so fast that 2-3 of them happen in a single global even with a 30%+ haste setup. At that point it is just ticking to avoid a pure oneshot. You still can't react fast enough if one dps pops a healing pot and the other doesn't, you still cannot hesitate or right a mistake (even in 10s), or the 4 ppl except the tank just instantly die. Despoilers/last boss of Grim Batol/ scream in ara-kara/mini-boss of ara-kara etc. M+ honestly feels worse to me than season 1 DF did (post initial dungeon tuning), even in 10s I feel powerless as a MW against all the AoE damage if my group fails stops/mistimes defensives, etc. I really wish they would just try to do a "50-100% stamina increase" with no increase in healing or damage taken and see if that would even out the pace a bit.

[@AutomaticJak]

Yea a stam increase is definitely needed

[@Mooseplatoon]

The worst part is that they DID a stamina increase at the end of Dragonflight with the expressed purpose of smoothing damage intake and then just...increased the incoming damage to compensate. I have no idea if their healing philosophy has changed and they haven't told us or if they just missed the mark on tuning by a wide margin. All we can do is speculate right now.

[@t.g7545]

Issue honestly is that healers are getting way and way more carried by their cooldowns than their actual abilities. Like now we reached to a point where every healer need to pop massive cd for every single damage event, the moment blizzard introduce any rot encounter like stichflesh its like impossible healing check as base abilities do like nothing. And having millions of defensives makes that even worse. I really want to go back to the past when each healer had like 2 at most major cds and outside of that you were actively healing with your actual abilities. I don't like that pre-defined spreadsheet type of gameplay where you need to have long list of assigned cds for everything before you enter into a dungeon and in between these massive damage events every 30 secs you can pretty much afk.

[@hampusnilsson7021]

@@Mooseplatoon yea, I remember being entirely flabbergasted at that. The ONLY thing that did was nerf healers. They then spent 10 patches buffing healers and nerfing mechanincs to compensate

[@hampusnilsson7021]

@@t.g7545 agreed. I mean its even worse for MW and holy priest who has 0 aoe healing in keys outside of cds (Vivify cleave is like 150k, good luck healing any m+ aoe with that), PoM and cicle of healing both heal for like a 20th of a hp bar at max. Som spells are just left in an era where hp bars took 5-6 globals to top in ST, and right now the requirements if often to top multiple bars across the party per global during intense damage. It is wild

[@smallpandochka]

Class design for resto druid is somewhere in Pandaria while raid and m+ design is in TWW.

[@tbbarreto]

Im not even logging, the druid on dragonflight was so fun

[@DIMITRI88]

Im only a +10 spammer for weekly vault, but resto druid is just fine. Only thing thats annoying is the uptime of dps. whats the issue?

[@Titandwarf]

@@DIMITRI88 I think it's the issue of spending 20 globals, only for your regrowth doing any healing, while dealing with the bursty aoe that a lot of these dungeons provide

[@Sarth-q8j]

I tried doing keys as a resto druid and I hate it with a passion. You can easily remain GCD locked with keeping your hots up, plus having to recast efflorescence because of tank and dps constantly moving out of it. It has potential, but it's so much more obnoxious compared to a class like holy pally.

[@txdmsk]

With hpriest and rdruid you need to know the exact second for every mechanic and boss timer, because you need to prehot people, and make sure you use your self-def cds on time. I personally enjoy it. But an ilvl 600 rsham is like an ilvl 630 rdruid. It's impossible to get invites, even though I have 2.8k rio and only want my fking +10 vaults....

[@DavidPalmer-nb9ur]

"I think spec design is in a really good spot", said no holy priest ever

[@Convescation]

Idk about healing but I know as a tank, blizz has completely killed tanking and the future of the role looks dark. Blizz also promised that "damage wouldn't be spiky" when they implemented the tank nerfs and that was 100% a lie, in 11s I can easily get one shot by a trash pack

[@its.araragi]

Didn't touch the expansion because of the self sustain nerfs. I knew the moment I read the patch notes that they will just nerf the tanks and UTTERLY FAIL at making the damage less spiky, so I never bothered opening the game after. I enjoy tanking when I have agency over my own life, not when I have to pray that my PUG healer tracks my defensives and helps when needed or worse, he has to babysit my ass.

[@txdmsk]

I feel like prot warrior is the only real tank in this meta (and I mean def specced prot warrior, not the useless garbage DPS specced prot warrior 30 aykyuu people bring to pug M+). My prot warrior pretty much doesn't need to use defensives in +12. DK is kinda ok for +10 pug, but super stressful. Pala is kinda ok for +10 pug these days, but super stressful. DH is absolutely useless garbage for pug runs.

[@Axehilt]

Do people like faster/bursty healing? I lean towards Slow Healing, since whatever side of the equation I'm on (usually healer, sometimes tank) I can be confident of very little overheal most of the time. "Bursty" healing tuning basically favors player skill a little more (it's very twitchy healing), whereas "Slow" healing tuning tends to be more a straight gear-check (since people are always damaged and your ability to catch up is a marathon race where your top speed, your HPS, is obviously very gear-dependent). At the high end "slow" healing also means fewer one-shots, which feels better to me personally (I prefer encounters to allow for a few mistakes, where you can see the effect of each mistake pushing you down into low HP quite a lot; even if this may mean the failure state takes a little longer to fully manifest, which can make it less clear to the Average Joe why they wiped -- and actually results in them being more likely to blame healers, since they felt low HP for quite a while before dying; but of course the reason they were low was they botched some mechanic earlier on.). As for specs, as a casual player I definitely love MW monk right now, and I think I probably enjoy Druid least (I do seem to do kinda okay on healing throughput, but it's just so GCD intensive to get HOTs out on people in a raid environment and they feel underwhelming on their own (their main value is in what you do _after_ HOTting with the current design). While I can appreciate that makes druid a little more skill-intensive than it used to be, it seems like they could've done that in a way that didn't make their HOTs feel this bad. You know like prune out a HOT (just remove an ability and let the other HOT be good)

[@Sarth-q8j]

Essentially what they did is make it so healers can't carry bad dps as much anymore. With so many more 1 shot mechanics being added over time, players MUST do mechanics and/or use defensives or they'll die. And in reality, this is a good thing. Now, all healers need to worry about just the, uh, constant incoming massive damage that constantly requires cooldowns, and as larger pulls become more necessary because of the timer, things get spicy too often...yeah, healing still sucks.

[@dumby88]

i gave up healing this x-pac cause i was gonna lose my hair over it. Just too stressful.

[@dumby88]

Now i play Ret paly with one finger up my nose and top dps in charts!

[@DarkHPH]

Short answer: NO

[@txdmsk]

Healing has been the worst since pre-Legion. Healer imbalance is perhaps also the most atrocious. Last time I checked 85% of all high keys were done by rsham, 15% by disc.

[@sanji2158]

Blizzard could just lower m+ key damage scaling, and maybe chill with the poison/curse trash packs

[@supernovasat]

I just leveled an alt disc priest and overall it just feels so much stronger than resto shaman regarding raw healing output. I don't know how close the numbers are. But overall it feels weaker because I have no control over interrupts or stops. Being at the mercy of the group feels really bad

[@stevenharkema5456]

Interesting... I find the opposite true, but maybe that's because the utility shaman brings makes it so much easier to keep up. I also find shaman just has more tools in general to spread out, where Disc has 2 primary ones (i.e. mindblast + bender). Both still feel stronger than my other healers though.

[@mjegghead]

Just started playing Lightsmith holy and I have never had more fun in this game. Thank you for all the tips to help me bring together my decent healing!

[@AutomaticJak]

You bet! Glad you’re enjoying it

[@darrendodge9193]

Same I've been really enjoying it!

[@ZACKandATTACK]

Some problems could be solved by Stamina increases. However, I feel like the core problem with healing is the fact that damage events are full of AoE damage in such a small window of time. It feels like there is a disconnect between the amount of time you have to heal everybody and how long your GCD is. This is super noticeable on Holy Priest where you basically only have single target heals. Even if you play pretty well, it feels like you don't have enough time to heal everybody and this causes there to feel like there is such a huge disparity between different healers like Disc/Rsham vs everyone else who aren't tuned as well. They could just shorten cast times and make it more manageable for other healers to fit this burst AoE profile. Or they could do the user friendly thing and make the damage happen in smaller amounts over 10-15 seconds instead of the larger amounts in 4-6 seconds. This makes it so that you don't have to have exactly perfect sequencing for your rotation. You'd have more freedom to do these mechanics that Blizzard wants healers to be apart of, like Anub'ikkaj, where you are constantly running stacked under the boss, then running out depending on what mechanic is happening. You have such a small window to actually be casting, and when damage does happen it is incredibly spiky.

[@ramones1314]

Literally, holy priest kinda only feels possible to play in higher keys if you have a prot paladin. They WoG/armament 1 player, are tanky themselves so don't require too much attention, and then the final 3 players are healed via Heal, Trail of Light, and Binding Heal lol. my personal opinion of how to fix it is to buff PoM, buff Benediction, separate Benediction from Holy Mending and buff Holy Mending, and then buff Say Your Prayers, and then add in a talent similar to the legion legendary gloves where when PoM heals someone they get a buff that increases the healing of your next Heal/Flash Heal/Serenity by 20%. since a lot of the healing checks are rapid ticks of aoe damage, PoM works wonders and would help cover some aoe damage, leaves Renew on players more often (synergizing with Renewed Faith), procs free heals of Holy Mending via bouncing, and then empowers your single target which makes the "cleave" of ToL/BH stronger. that way they don't have to mega buff PoH would could then alter raid balance, if they are so keen on keeping PoH terrible but i would still prefer it to be worth casting. Idk thats just my take on it as of right now

[@txdmsk]

@@ramones1314 They need to come up with a new healing mechanic for hpriest. I second the idea of building it around POM. There are so many ways to make this work. Stop failing, blizurd.

[@ramones1314]

@@txdmsk I find a lot of the ground work is there already in the talents, but is ruined by "choose one" or the talent just being miserable. Like why is there 4 ways to get Renew onto people for free, but all 4 suck? and then renew also sucks so even if they were good it like wouldnt be worth it xD

[@Duck4Evers]

I smell Meta Disc Priest bias..😅😅

[@marcha2540]

Definetly no. As a healer this is the most unfun season i can remember and i play since classic. It isnt the gameplay of the healers themselves. (except for Hpala, which is still the worst). Those dungeons, mobs and the sheer overload on CC, interrupts and movements needed is just exhausting. I stopped at +13 and only doing +10 since then for the chests. I allways had fun pushing and testing my limits but i dont get to my limits until i get so annoyed and exhausted by those dungeons. The affixed are just the iceing on this turd-cake.

[@vaeell6532]

Well I can sure say that tanking doesnt feel any better. M+ has gotten progressively worse since SL.

[@TheGoldenAngel82]

They really need to do something, and start listening to all those players below the top.1% and stop listening only to top players and streamers in set groups. Sure Hardcore players needs to get some extra difficulty, but everyone else also needs to be able to have fun. If they do not change something up - and rather soon as well, then there won't be any healers or tanks outside top players.

[@JohnParker-jm5tt]

I started the expansion as Ele Sham, was really bummed about the nerfs in 11.0.5 and then offered to start raid healing. Went Holy Priest because that’s what I healed with back in WoD and thanks to your guides I’m performing well AND having A LOT of fun

[@AutomaticJak]

Glad to hear it!!

[@MrGMottas]

Raid wise i'd argue it feels better?! My complaint in raid is more about WAs/tools "required" for mechanics in mythic, while throughput (healing primarily) is not that required. What I mean by that is: in raid, as a healer that enjoys healing, Heroic is too easy, Mythic is not hard (throughput) but mechanically annoying. Mythic + is as bad as it ever was, too much defensive power/one shotting mechanics on lower levels.

[@donovan3562]

My first time healing was dragonflight S1 as MW monk. It was fun but hard - I topped out at +19 keys and never got portals. This season I tried healer main again as Rshaman and topped out at all timed +11s. A great accomplishment for me (I've never gotten portals before) but I stopped because I just cannot seem to break into +12s. That and the gear upgrade system requiring my to farm out valorstones just makes me want to unistall.

[@yosefbensadon4933]

Did a mists 10 today , I have timed 30+ mists this season I am resto shaman 638. We bricked the key. So many one shots that people just died, like I could do nothing and even we had some consumption fases of 30 seconds because some dps died and it took forever. No way I could have saved that key. While In a good group with good dps we pull 3 packs of trash on last boss (2 at start one at end) to keep things fun because there is no damage taken except on the burst.

[@Electronie]

this season healing is TERRIBLE. man jusst bring df s3 and we can all be happy. even df s1 was good . i ll take shadowlands/legion/bfa healing any day anytime also

[@ericchamberland4298]

same, was hitting +25, +26 last season with pugs, with war within, a simple 12 with pugs is a nightmare

[@gollese]

@@ericchamberland4298 Simple? It's way harder than a +22 in DF, im pretty sure its closer to 24-25 than 22.

[@txdmsk]

@@gollese Yeah, but +12 is still easy. Unless you are trying it with some off-meta crap, which is 2 out of 3 specs.

[@DaMeLoFeLo]

Personally in a mythic raid environment ive never felt less impactful. Everything is a "if they are doing the mechanics right the boss falls over" ive never felt pressured like i need to do better to win. I think the gear came so fast this time to a wider audience so much that we outgeared the tier basically week 2.

[@MrSups1]

i think theres marginal improvements but i think this is mostly from specific nerfs to defenses. We still see power creep for multiple specs every patch, we still see high levels of burst and extremely high overhealing. defensives/self healing are still quite high. they need to go much harder next time

[@lgleonardogomes]

m+ looks overwhelming A LOT we need more power as healer OR the dmg nees to be tuned down a little

[@coolguy2242]

The short answer is no. Extremely burnt from blizzard’s odd tuning decisions, slow dungeon fixes, bad changes to interrupts. However hero talents have been fun to play with.

[@vaeell6532]

The +12 jump, death affix 15s timer, and the interrupt changes. Remove this and M+ becomes much better imo.

[@shiftey8]

As a resto druid since vanilla, I actually stopped healing in m+ and now play as balance. It's the worst it ever was and druid design is definitely lacking compared to where the game design is now and needs a rework. So War Within is terrible in this aspect.

[@crazyphoenickss]

Spec design for most healers just sucks. Class design is meh. Raid designs are alright, and dungeon designs is terrible for how most people play the game. They keep designing dungeons as if there were no such thing as affixes. They need to buff up sustained healing and reduce burst healing by a lot, and reduce, drastically, the absurd amount of burst damage that comes in, too. They need to cut every non tank's defensives by 50-60% so there's not as many. Every non tank spec should only have 2 defensives: 1 major, and 1 minor. Minor shouldn't be more than 10 or 15%, and the major shouldn't be more than 20 or 25%. The major defensives should be on a 3 minute CD and the minor defensives on a 1.5 or 2 minute CD. With that they can nerf the incoming burst by a lot, and then challenge healers with bigger rot damage profiles and more healing absorbs.

[@SlotHits777]

DF Season 3 was best

[@auditor_sama]

Yes, it was. Mb more classes should get buffs, but overall state was fin and enjoyable

[@gollese]

Hpala is back and able to heal outside of CDs, im happy with that!

[@matt566]

do u mean as herald? lightsmith basically can only respond to spikes with wings, awakening, rising sunlight, or lay on hands/bubble/sac u also have to combine virtue with those if it’s 13+

[@gollese]

@@matt566 Way better than past few season in dragonflight atleast.

[@HamsterLiterario]

Being healer is a really poor experience imo. Everytime a DPS miss a mechanic and dies, the healer is blamed.

[@bobbilling1075]

As a healer I’ve gotten unreasonably flamed for things beyond my control way more this expac. It’s fine once your past the brain dead people in 4-7 but it’s still much more prevalent than before. I honestly enjoyed df more, I like to be able to dps a good bit, now instead of one person being one shot the whole group gets one shot. They did not achieve that goal at all

[@AutomaticJak]

I got called the worst healer in the country in an 8 a couple weeks back I feel ya

[@chrisroberts5300]

I feel it, trying to pug to 2500 as a first time disc player. In 9 sv they broke all 3 crystals at same time on shadow boss 3 wipes in a row and I'm somehow the issue

[@zacklim4215]

I rmb doing a 11 Ara Kara on my alt disc priest, tank was barely holding aggro, I got meleed twice and died, pop fade, desperate prayer and pain suppression. Then everyone died in the process and this rogue died to an exploding spider dare to comment why is everyone dying, I said I got meleed he got the cheeks to say fade ? psychic scream? As if that would save me I was getting bolted like twice in a row as well. It’s ridiculous how much the they expecting the healer to live through other people’s mistakes. And btw that rogue only had like 4 kicks up till killing the first boss.

[@christophervelasquez2063]

Love healing it feels good, and this is only season 1 we will get more power later, different tier, and who knows what other kind of powers we get

[@fuzzypockets]

Lots of fun. Never had as many people in pugs saying „thank you, great healing“ as this season (still quite rare though). Dungeons however have too many mechanics, mistakes are just too punishing. I enjoy learning the dungeons and I’m dedicated to time all the level 10s, but seeing a large number of pugs disband just feels bad

[@ramones1314]

Cata and Legion were my favourite expansions for healing. Cata had dangerous mechanics but high health so even though healing spells weren't buffed to compensate the health pools, you still felt like you had time and that your spells were useful so long as you played correctly. Legion was similar, I don't know how blizzard managed it but healer spells felt really strong and encounters didnt end up one shotty or anything. There was a lot of damage but it was manageable. I guess that depending on how many traits you had or titanforges for extra stamina so fresh characters or benched alts maybe got rocked lmfao. Now in WW, I'm having an alright time, but it feels like WoD all over again. Where you have to figure out what doesn't suck within your toolkit, and play around that. Blizzard doesn't seems to have a vision for how the specs are supposed to function and kinda just threw in a bunch of ideas as talents and players had to see what was salvageable

[@kacey69]

I play everything between ksm and ksh (I’m an altaholic) tank, dps, and healer… healing is the least fun role. It’s thankless, since keeping people alive is just expected, it doesn’t do any damage, and pushing health bars up just isn’t as fun as pushing the damage meters. If you’re a good tank, people thank you and it’s rewarding and fun. If you’re a good dps people compliment your skill. If you’re a good healer, you got carried..? Imo in terms of fun it’s dps > tank > spectating > healer

[@Rhanyra]

i dont know about better but I basically have infinite Mana as a disc priest this season which is nice. I barely ever dip below 85% in raid. But that also comes from learning how to play your spec better.

[@vanlombardi243]

For the first time since I started playing healer (WoD) I'm currently enjoying more playing dps than healer with a class I've never touched until last patch. Don't get me wrong, I play evo and druid heal and they both feel fine-ish but I just don't feel useful nor relevant when the top dps is doing x4 times on average the damage I can do with the most aggro spec I can possibly play and my healing doesn't seem to improve with better gear. Also something I've noticed is that too many people is playing dps this season and too little are playing tank/heal which makes pugging as dps almost impossible if you aren't absurdly over qualified for the key that you sign in. Giving overall buffs to healers and tanks should be something to consider if they want to avoid a scenario where dps players rather stop playing than facing 1 hour of being declined.

[@tommysvibe4484]

I play LS hpal. It's a real challenge for me. Sometimes it goes well sometimes it does not. Blaming heal when there is no cc no int. Not using defensive, etc. But man, the class is fun.

[@Harbinger1998]

The chart at 1:50 says no, they haven't, it's pretty much the same as DF. From my experience pugging KSM as resto shaman (with correspondingly geared players ~600-615 ilvl), it feels pretty similar to DF. That is, still exhausting always being on edge, that people not topped off could just explode at any second. Along with burst aoe moments where if I don't press the right spells in the next 2 or 3 globals, multiple people will die and it could likely be a wipe/key fail. I don't outright HATE it, but I certainly wouldn't continue beyond the 7s that I stopped at. Seems like there is predominantly 4 types of damage in M+ 1. Crazy tank damage at the start of pulls with not very good tanks (esp bear druids). Again, just a gcd or two from a wipe. 2. Massive burst aoe that does 50-70% of the group's max health in less than 3 seconds. Infrequent but scary as hell due to #3: 3. Random single target bursts on dps/healer, that is mostly interruptible/stoppable, but chunks for ~30-50% of max health. 4. Bad stuff on the ground that no one should be getting hit by but people still manage. Other than those I'm usually kinda bored. I don't feel like I managing group health bars strategically, just playing twitch whack a mole back to 100% asap. Again. About the only improvement is actually the increased tank damage. I like having to consider sustained single target healing again. Avoidable/preventable damage is too high, unavoidable damage is too infrequent/bursty. Rot damage is almost non-existent.

[@stevenm22]

As a healer main from TBC through all, I have never felt less like playing the game than this expansion of mythic plus....raids still feel good. Mythic plus feels like tick damage into one shots over and over and over.

[@kkin4438]

I don't like the bursty damage. I don't like dots that take 30% of a players health per tic. But I don't know how Blizzard deals with it cause half the players will say they hate this and half will say they love how hard healing is (even though I don't agree that it's as difficult as it is just unfair at times, especially if other players aren't kicking, using defensive, etc.). But then if they make damage less bursty and healing stronger, we end up with the top 2% of players not even taking a healer in M+ and Blizzard looks at that and says, "See! People aren't bringing healers, time to up the damage."

[@jakestrauss2776]

I've been trying out a bunch of tank and healer specs this xpac and I feel like I am just going to settle with DPS. I feel like its so much less stressful. A lot of this is inevitably just 'get gud' on my part but with healing I keep tunnel visioning into the teams hp bars going up and down and I always end up missing a swirly or some type of mechanic by accident.

[@driiifter]

There’s too many over lapping mechanics and the anti range mechanics are hysterical. I ran a couple all melee pugs yesterday and literally all the mechanics were focusing on me every single time. I was taking every single charge in mists and every single chase in Siege.

[@clowntech3838]

I have never healed the keys I am healing this expansion. I am having a great time

[@DrGeazy]

I have just given up today. Healed 5 on a +12 and one on a +13. It’s just not fun to pug. Me and my tank friend have given up on it. The scaling from a +11 to a +12 is too much for most pugs. Sometimes you get 3 magical pugs dps and it’s not too bad. But there needs to be different scaling after +11 imo half steps to what it is now. A +11 is an old +22 then move to a +13 it’s like an old +27 with the affix. There is just no need in it.

[@JaydeeDJ]

Raid healing is better. M+ bosses are a little less oneshotty, but the trash is way worse. Too many changes at once in M+; Key squish, affix changes, tank nerfs, larger HP pools, healer changes and ofc CC's not putting mobs spells on CD. Hard to analyse the impact of each individual change when they are all combined at once in the end result of S1 M+. If I could see one change for S2 though, it'd be mob abilities being put on CD again after being CC'd like in DF. This will prob facilitate bigger pulls again and while I kinda prefer the smaller pulls in TWW compared to DF, I'd take the silly huge pulls of DF over handling even a single pack of 2 web bolt slingers absolutely murdering half the groups. Reverting the CC changes would be the biggest W for like 95%+ of the community in my eyes and neutral at worst for the rest. Second choice for a change would be to severely trim defensives down to a function where they are a panic/recovery button rather than a requirement to live through dmg phases (like the mini bosses in Dawn). Though inevitably people will reach a key level where it becomes a requirement again, but in S1 this key level is reached too quickly imo, especially in conjunction with the other M+ changes. Hopeful that something positive will come in S2, cause right now the only thing I miss about S1 M+ is the social aspect of playing with friends. The M+ experience itself was for the most part quite frustrating at higher keys and limited to just a few people I played with instead of many like in DF.

[@madtrade]

something i hate this season as a healer that push only in PUG 1. is the CC/interrupt change having ppl getting 'deleted' ain't fun especially when they constantly cast and cast and cast ad infinitum 2. the god damn overlap if you ain't ready you are all dead and there is some horrific example like in COT at the last boss if someone pulled the big bug first and you have to use healing CD to survive the AOE dmg and then go right away to the last boss there is a good chance u are empty of CD some class feel HORRIBLE when you start to heal high key. my favorite class MW now require me to blanket enveloping for almost every god damn AOE or else we heal for shit. so i'm a fistweaver casting like a holy priest for every AOE all the god damn time. good old chi-ji do nothing in single target it's pathetic too. resto drood are doing exactly the same but at least they have instant cast to blanket (still feel giga bad) to always do that for almost everything. all in all i feel like 90% of my failed key was because of a interrupt getting out (and then with one dps dead you have even less interrupt so.. it goes to hell) and the rest of my fail is because i failed to align perfectly some 8 gcd ramp and good luck if i try to use a CD because there is a stupid overlap coming out right away in 20 seconds that must be handled with it. I don't understand why they can't make more 'rotting' instead of giga bursting damage so AT least we have a few seconds of leeway if our ramping ain't perfectly aligned or instead of sending some one shot bolt just leave a god damn dot. also some packs are 100% pure death if you are doing it in a pug where each tank will route differently and make you destroy every CD and then pull another giga dangerous pack of mobs. blizzard FFS pace the shit out !!

[@assaqwwq]

so lets see... Scaling makes healing during leveling erratic, impossible to learn rotations (since important talents only come online at 75+), and simply does not scale to peoples health. Healing at max level is so much fun, as long as your definition of fun is to pump damage, have mild panic attacks every time the tank gets hit for 50%+ of HP and constantly being out of breath because the tank is 5 rooms ahead and you gotta book it. Know every mechanic and incoming dmg. Know every tank CD. Know every dps CD. DO YOU LOVE ADDONS, BECAUSE YOUR SCREEN WILL END UP LOOKING LIKE THE STOCK EXCHANGE. Oh and, don't forget to heal. Even when dps sleeps in lava. Or else you get kicked.

[@txdmsk]

Wait, this game has a screen? I thought this is a text based choose your own adventure game where you need to make decisions based on healbot, decursive, a bunch of weakauras and other addons!

[@Gumblethebear]

If the HP/HPS is lower (IE you can heal a full health bar faster) doen't that mean that Blizzard is going to design damage patterns to be ALOT more frequent and punishing to counter your ability to heal faster? In theory, if you can't top people off as fast, the damage the game has to put out needs to be lower by default for anyone to complete content. So by making healers stronger, they HAVE to make the game way more lethal for everyone else. Not sure that's a win, as it devalues anything anyone BUT the healer does for mitgation or healing, as the healer is strong enough to just slam more healing into them than they ever could themselves.....

[@ozmcsween]

Short answer is no. I streamed a key for a friend and she said she wouldn’t want to heal this expansion from seeing people die in less than half a second to overlap of affixes with mechanics, and they were already stressed out without playing.

[@evanhardin]

Healing is so bad this expansion that I quit the game.

[@EmoDragracer]

I don’t like that you quit btw; just agreeing with you 😅

[@catbwoy]

I've found healing much less fun this season. Not sure if it's my class / spec (Holy priest) but I've felt weak and unable to keep up with pulsing damage especially. It's been so unfun I've hardly healed any pugs and I'm not really playing the game at this point. I haven't felt so uninspired to play since Cataclysm

[@networknomad5600]

Wrath is just the superior game. Pretty much any pre-Cata Classic version of WoW just feels good.

[@ozzymandingo]

As a 2700 healer, sorry Jak you’re out of touch because you’re playing at the top end and in smaller community up there. Whilst it’s better than DF it’s still too hard for a lot of people. This is petty obvious when you look at the current state of pug queues for tanks and healers. Many healers / tanks are being taken into pugs well below where they should be and this results in lots of failed keys. I know you’re not going to like this but healers and tanks need to be boosted and op because the entire pug community is suffering because of it. I think we need to go back to late SL where healers were actually targeting more damage than worrying about healing. This is needed for the community as a whole, the current state of M+ is shambles right now below 12 keys because there are no healers or tanks playing the game because it’s much harder than it used to be to be. I mean it’s great for me as a healer because I can join any key I want below 12 but the rest of the community is suffering…

[@crazyphoenickss]

I think you're wrong about where it should be. I think they just need to stop making so many mechanics in dungeons and pretend the affixes they put in the game are mechanics for every dungeon and give every dungeon only like 1 mechanic per group of mobs. They also need to reduce the incoming damage all the mobs deal to the group by 30-50% and then they need to go back to the spec design for healers, delete half of the CDs in those spec trees, then buff up the power of everyone's base abilities by 50-70% so their base abilities like Holy Shock, Regrowth, Rejuvenation, Flash Heal, Heal, etc. all do so much more healing. They also need to figure out how fast they want HoT and DoT specs to play in this game because it's absurdly stupid that a spec based on HoTs and DoTs does so little due to everyone else doing so much burst. The amount of burst damage the specs do is insane, and they need to reduce that, and then increase sustained damage of all specs, and reduce burst healing and buff sustained healing of all specs. Blizzard just sucks at figuring out how to not make things so difficult because, if we go by most of the players in this game, most of us want an easier game, not a more difficult game. Some difficulty is fine, but too challenging is not fun for most players. Most people just want to chill and have some fun and not have to think about things anywhere close to as much. They don't want to have to turn their brains on, they did that for work or school. Class and spec design also doesn't make sense for a lot of specs. Too many dead talents, too many good talents badly tuned, too many bad talents that shouldn't even exist in the trees in both class n spec trees. Too many affixes, too many mechanics in dungeons.

[@ozmcsween]

Why doesn’t the spreadsheet show the average damage taken per second, as well as average class personal healing. I know for sure in previous expansions I’ve been able to fill heal myself entirely through just leech, but since then they’ve nerfed leech, healing defensives, and mana pools, making it so yes you can top a player in 2 global but you won’t be able to do it again for a while where as let’s say in battle for dazaralor mana wasn’t really even a resource and infinitely more cooldowns to roll through

[@Stevie320]

All the required kicks, stops and defensives makes for a really poor experience for new healers in low keys because none of that stuff gets used, leading to crazy high hps requirements for the key level. A +4 can easily require more hps than a +10 and higher. IDK how new healers are supposed to do it. Hell, even in +10s, I'm regularly having to do more hps overall than pro players in top keys.

[@TheGoldenAngel82]

I have been playing since late vanilla, healing since late TBC right up to the start of TWW. I am finding it waay to stressful, community waay too toxic and the reward "feeling" way too lacking, so for the first time since TBC I am now a DPS again. It is also the first expansion since M+ was introduced in Legion that I do not play M+ at all anymore. Maybe if I find a good active guild or make some friends (most my friends quit during DF) and get a team sat up I'll heal.. but otherwise nah. Not with how it feel this time around, especially when pugging.

[@sharkstaint1373]

imagine healing stonevault first pulls and first boss , its like what in the world were blizzard thinking , did they think we gonna do smal pulls ? 3 mob by 3 mob ? how time wasting is that , ofc you gonna do the hallway with cds , and then there is the two bosses on vault , and then comls grim , where u need curses dispells , then come the pug breaker , the lass boss of echoes , then come the second boss of threads , third boss of threads is crazy , like how was that supposed to be slow damage ? my group is minimum 628 ilvl , and we take so much damage on a 10 ? like what. they pushed away tank players and healers at the same time , what a crazy design , how incompetent can you be , df season 3 was the best season , congrats on killing your endgame content , the lfg been so quit this season compared to df. i sit on the q on a 10/11/12 dawnbreaker for 10 min barely finding one tank sign up , including healers.

[@Saffron-xx]

I've found the unavoidable damage to be the most annoying when it stacks on one target at the same time and kills them. No skill could prevent it, just pure rng garbo.

[@zelgius2461]

Gotta love those shit timing raider pulls and the shots in seige and then the throw flesh in NW. There is no counter play. It's really shit design.

[@Saffron-xx]

@zelgius2461 Double despoiler slam in SV is total Garbo too or in Echos the poison reapplying to the same target immediately after you clear it is so gross.

[@johnMa7869]

Damn bro, that beard looked good on you !

[@huh4484]

I just miss playing Holy priest..

[@DaltonPaquette]

FROM 3K IO, TO PLAYING A DIFFERENT GAME. THANK YOU BLIZZARD

[@AngryPomeranian]

If it’s not dk, hpala and protwar you feel like your tank is in danger every second.

[@malenky4057]

As a druid, in raid I wish people stayed not topped off for longer. I'd be all for healthpools being higher again and healing being a bit slower.

[@AutomaticJak]

Ye where’s the rot fights!

[@malenky4057]

@@AutomaticJak I wonder if they were to do this, would they have to make mana matter more again, or increase healer damage (and balance around having it)? In other words, give healers something else to be spending globals on other than the biggest, most immediate and burstiest heals.

[@AutomaticJak]

mana is really weird right now, some people dont care at all about it and some have to be super mindful of it. Tbh I think increasing stamina and making more rot fights would help a ton

[@themInterwebs]

@@AutomaticJak this was their stated design goal in DF and TWW no? And I think we can agree healing isn’t getting better, so why would doing it a 4th time be different??

[@aatndrmoskavfav9712]

Holy Paladin paladin here! Quite enjoying myself. I look upon Legion and Mists as being the glory days for holy paladin. The days of Glimmer was boring af. Going into WTT I was sceptical, but it has wonderful even Lightsmith is a fun spec.

[@vincenthammons-kd9du]

I would go back to healing if I did not have to also dps I mean ive always done some dps but people expect you put alot of focus into it now

[@josephrasmussen9128]

Shadowlands was peak healing. Make healers do 70% of a DPS's damage, and in good groups you're there to basically deal with aoes, some triage and then just blast. Boone holy priest was peak.

[@crazyphoenickss]

Healers doing damage is absurd. You're not there to do damage. Your role is you being there to Heal, not DPS. This is like grabbing a cart pusher in Walmart and telling them they need to go be a manager, or go be a stocker. It's not your problem to do damage. It's not your job to do damage. And before someone comes back with the wonderful "it's not my job to use defensives" nonsense, it is your job if you're gonna be 1 shot by it. If not, then I don't care whether you choose to use them or not. My job is to heal as a healer. I don't care whether people kick or use defensives, as long as said action doesn't auto kill you or the group, otherwise I welcome it because it keeps me doing my job as a healer. "well what else are you gonna do, sit on your hands?" Yes, exactly that until more damage comes out and I need to heal more. I don't care if that looks bad to you. My job, as a healer, is to heal. Healers are not support roles like in other games where you do everything. No, they are healers. They heal, and when the healing is done they should be rewarded with a break and not having to do much or anything else. It's like when the manager at a job tells you "you have to be doing stuff at all times." I go and say "why? I've done my job. Do I get more money to do more at my job than just my job? My reward is being able to relax until it's time to do more job again." You work, then relax, then work, then relax, then work, then relax. That's how most of life is, that's how most games are designed, too. And I don't see why other people look down on that. I don't ask DPS players to heal or help heal if I'm the healer. I don't tell tanks they need to also heal the group, too, with me. That's my job, not theirs.

[@josephrasmussen9128]

@crazyphoenickss stick with classic then. The game is more engaging when your role is multifaceted.

[@Sw0nk0]

People who do not heal think that healers can save them from anything. I want to heal this xpac because I have never mained a healer. Its fun for casual content but in m+ its awful. Its so stressful, not a fun experience at all. I really don't like that i have to do everything in advance. And the hots are mostly shit anyway, they are just there to boost other mechanics. I liked when a healer had time to help with dps in between healing.

[@Schizim]

If rot dmg is killing 3/5 ppl in 3 seconds, it’s not rot dmg, it’s burst dmg. Healing is the same

[@Duck4Evers]

I LOVE your content, it's truly excellent! I believe the mass player M+ pool say under the top even 7-10% live in a different world then what's being broadcast by content creators. Pugs that fail on the regular, toxic players and don't even get me going on what Delves have done to the minds of ppl that wander into Low keys expecting their gear to carry them

[@AutomaticJak]

It definitely is a different world. When damage is too spikey overall it gets insanely punishing for the lower key group when kicks are missed because they’re still so highly tuned. This definitely is a big part of defensive bloat imo. If we didn’t have so many I don’t think the damage overall would be set so highly and we’d have more “light” bolts like the alloy bolts in stonevault that can be easily healed thru rather than the chunker bolts in other keys like city

[@kingtut8367]

The problem is the keys now require everyone to int/cc. And when that fails, its a wipe. Not hard to comprehend. Every dps int needs to be on cd and not only 4 ints for the whole necrotic key. Its shit like that which makes healing stressful. Simple solution, give every healer a kick. Rshams excel so well cause a good resto sham will carry the trash dps’ lack of utility. Long term fix, every trash dps needs to play a healer so they know what hurts. Dps just faceroll their rotation without any awareness to the enemies abilities. Frustrating as hell

[@fulldrawpainting]

I just healed a +2 necrotic wake as a new healer.....Jesus. Dont know if i can keep this up. We failed to time it and i struggled massively 😢

[@txdmsk]

Man, I could heal +2 NW with a warrior healer. It's a you problem. We are complaining about +10 and above. +9 and below are for kids.

[@fulldrawpainting]

@txdmsk and it's people like you that keep players away from trying healers. Well done on being toxic, keep it up

[@txdmsk]

@@fulldrawpainting Grow some balls.

[@Goosey_Loosey]

without even watching the vid i can answer: to the regular every day player, no healing sucks it's a stressful thankless job that requires players even at lower difficulty to put in too much effort to the high end pro level player it's great healing is a proper challenge and requires skill to pull off (although still with issues of scaling on the upper high end) imo they ruined healing, as well as tanking, we already had a healer and tank shortage before the nerfs and now no one wants to play those roles in low to mid levels.

[@billflynn9962]

cooldowns shouldnt be required to used, they should just be an "oh shit" button when a dps screws up... remove personal defensives from dps and give more to healers to save their group

[@jguy2292]

Would be nice as a Holy Priest to be able to have new CC or a kick. Oh boy we have a fear that screws over my party then I get yelled at or kicked. OH BOY! Chastise is cool, but you gotta save that for when it will matter and if you aren't TALENTED it's useless.

[@Liquid188]

Yes of course they have... somehow you need to get over this unavoidable damage in mythic+. This sucks so much.

[@pmcfearson9453]

Gives dps cooldowns but the dps can only see buttons that make them Go boom.

[@phantasm5347]

NO. ABSOLUTELY. NOT.

[@txdmsk]

Tanks are not invincible, but Warrior, DK and Pally are quite tanky. EXCEPT... People play them as DPS classes. They look at coordinated top M+ runs and see "WOW, this streamer sacrifices about half his tankiness for 3% extra damage! I must also do so in uncoordinated pug runs!!!!!!!!!!!". I have never hated tank players as much as this expansion.

[@Nickrogaming]

Its trash. Spike damage encounters and one shots are cancer of the game and they double dosing on that shit every patch

[@twisterballgm]

Blizz does not even play the game to see it's problems which is sad.

[@mmaric700]

way to much pressure on healers , like healer has to move and heal , healer has to do mechanic and heal., healer has to use cds and heal , healer has to do some cheese tact and heal its just insane. switched from dps to heal and its just like playing another game , what i noticed on higher keys is the importance of stamina its just way to important , whats the difference when your geared

[@Spit823]

I miss black rock foundry 😢

[@AutomaticJak]

Saaame big dawg

[@d4mephisto]

not currently subbed to wow. stopped at end of DF. back then, all the hype was "healing sucks, so nerf tanks and make DPS's jobs harder with more interrupts and changes to stops in general." going to listen to this video to see if "it was worth it" to make all those changes. I hope it was, but we'll see what you have to say in this video. listening now.

[@TheGoldenAngel82]

Well, it was not.

[@frankylopez761]

Healing feels so horrible I switched to dps. In M+ it’s just the game on hard mode.

[@juviachan9963]

I only do M+. This season feels terrible. Especially on Druid. It feels like spamming regrowth is the thing to go. This is boring. The talent tree/nodes is still a mess (which is mostly copied mess of Dragonflight). Hero talents for Resto feels abysmal compared to other healers. My only "CD" is now RNG-Convoke. Yay. And no, the butchered Flourish you will not take in M+. I'm not really fond of the BFA dungeons. However I really wish BFA/SL healing back.

[@theedude2207]

No.... Lack of healers is apparent.

[@Pandapold]

Heal these days is just a dps who needs to do healing in addition to his rotation. It doesnt make fun anymore so I switched to an DPS class.

[@KruegerV]

Pug healing even a +2 feels terrible if they don't kick and stun. Healers are pulling their weight and the crappy DPS that still stands in shit and doesn't know the mechanics. I've been kicked because I wouldnt be able to keep up because they're so bad. Blame the healer.

[@michealhubbard684]

Well people are running +16s with no healer, so I would say, no, healing has not been improved. When a tank and a ret paladin can do our job for us, no wonder the games dead and everyone is on classic. Because the game was actually good then.

[@nilohermes6447]

I feel like mechanics are less spiky but there are twice the amount of mechanics.

[@Duck4Evers]

When you gatekeep mythic gear and low cap weekly crests you will feel less good across every class other than the top 1%

[@ClapBurn]

Healer only since SL, every season. Quit a while ago in s1 of TWW because healing is NOT better, it is worse and entirely designed to be miserable.