Have England Turned Things Round? | The Rugby Pod Analyse England V Argentina RWC 2023

[@jr1734]

If Borthwick brings back Farrell and Youngs it will be criminal. Mitchell and Ford should be 1st half-back pairing

[@offal]

farrell somewhere but youngs no no no no

[@meEllson]

Back to the Old Ford at 10 Farrell 12 tugi 13. Young’s too slow but not as slow as care

[@Jam43341]

Farrell will be playing 10 and deserves to be, just because he’s been a bit sill with his tackling doesn’t mean he’s not still one of the best fly halves about

[@samuel8265]

Ford over Farrell I hope Ben Young's isn't selected for any games he's too slow

[@MichaelJordan-yy1sr]

He’s stupid but not that stupid. Surely

[@Pepgang]

The biggest surprise for me is Lavinini not getting send off. 👏

[@hugomarx1324]

😂😂😂

[@hugomarx1324]

Great achievement 😅

[@LucrismLukas]

Lol🤣

[@user-qj6to4yj3s]

Hahaha

[@benfromgermany]

Bok fan here. Really enjoyed watching England. Very impressed with their aggression and accuracy. Look determined to have a solid campaign.

[@hugomarx1324]

I have to give England credit for the performance. Their game plan was simple but effective. Argentina meanwhile had no game plan and played like a drunk pub team. Embarrassing considering they just won the football world cup. I thought Michael Cheika messed up not selecting a proper flyhalf and scrumhalf. The centers were also poor.

[@johnhanson5943]

I think the laws are right. Upright tackles negate attacking teams off-loads and momentum. They can be dangerous. The risk : benefit makes them too risky for the team - and more importantly too risky due to the possibility of causing head injuries. The problem isn’t the rule, the problem is the officiating and the coaching.

[@shanecoughlan3363]

Working abroad and trying to catch Irish games on VPN, games from other nations on BBC, ITV and even the local Israeli sports network. The issue with replays (or lack thereof) seems to be with the French television crews, multiple incidents across multiple games across all channels where replays and/or the referee commentary & decisions were not shown. I seem to recall this been an issue with French TV in years gone by in 6 nations games as well

[@user-qj6to4yj3s]

I don't think Argentina are overhyped. It came down to poor team selection from Cheika. Not selecting Tomas Cubbeli and Sanchez in such a important match is literally a criminal offense.

[@LucrismLukas]

Completely agree 👍

[@wot4922]

Argentina has always played well against our SH teams. I was really surprised by their lack of play.

[@LucrismLukas]

@@wot4922 they selected a winger to play flyhalf. Carreras cost them the game. If Sanchez and Cubbeli played, it would've been a different story. Cheika is to blame.

[@davynewcomb8054]

Literally?

[@davidpeters3857]

😂😂😂

[@cornishpasty6926]

Steve Borthwick needs to do two things: 1) Courtney Lawes should remain as Captain 2)George Ford should remain as England Fly-Half

[@kevinwillis6707]

neither of those things will happen,and hes already lined up vunipola for the next game.

[@snowyrichmond5445]

@@kevinwillis6707 Vunipola will replace the now banned Curry, with Earl going to 7 though, no?

[@expressoevangelism80]

Oh dear! He should really consider the right team for the opposition. Vinapola just isn’t fast enough nowadays, and therefore hasn’t got the impact. He’s been great for us historically, but that seems to have passed beyond him now, unfortunately. I just can’t understand why Farrell is even selected in the first place.

[@samuel8265]

Billy vunipola should never of been picked for world cup squad to begin with should of been Zach mercer far more agile and skillful

[@geoffnelson6756]

You always wanted to watch the anthems in big games, the passion and emotion set the excitement level. The match reminded me of the England Ireland game, England with 14 played amazing and on that occasion it took Ireland most of the game to come out of the shock, Argentina never got going and stayed in a defeated trance for the 80 mins. Curious though how well England play with 14 when they play instinctively, but they seem inhibited and lethargic with a full team and sticking to the game plan, not sure England could have pulled that off against a top team, but credit to them.

[@thomaspollock5709]

U don't think it's 4 years since we. Is a long time most of argintina players back then where late in age and now there gone they should have beat England if players where more as it's a new squad young but English have big shock conning

[@lukedudley5030]

To be fair ford is a better game manager than farrel...its time to have farrel as support...if hes a great leader and organiser use that for the team but he doesnt need to be on the pitch..i remember captains in the 90s dropping themselves as it would be better for the team we need more of this honesty in modern rugby...but with match bonuses and such this probably wont happen

[@douglasdejager8450]

England dug deep with 14 players. Ground out a tough win. Respect from a Bok fan.

[@almcdonald8676]

Regardless of the legality or biomechanics of the tackle the horrifically inconsistent adjudication means that England has lost a pivotal player whereas Argentina, South Africa (and was it France who got a yellow?) have got away with intact squads

[@kevinwillis6707]

scots must be raging that kriel got away with it, it could have changed the whole game and group if he had gone off.

[@CLIFTYPOPS]

Let alone Wales

[@Openmind7856]

Positives: -The Eng forwards actually turned up and were cohesive. -Mitchell created tempo and showed Youngs shouldn't even be in the squad. -Fordy was class -Defence in the backs was strong Negatives -Our back 3 will easily be found out against a team with a decent tactital fly half, Mays had his day, Daly could play into form but should be benched. Stewards playing back into form but needs two wingers who are on the ball. Arundel and Malins to start. - if Cole and George come off we're taking a few steps down in ability with their replacements. SA would smash us.

[@standelone1674]

I think the boks are a great team but would they smash england?

[@jw9231]

As a England fan I didn’t find it a boring game but I can understand how other fans would

[@martinp17]

I agree -'we' were scrutinising every moment, looking for a 'glimmer' of hope and that places us less as a typical viewer and more of an emotional analyst!

[@DarioOle-tp5tp]

If Michael Cheika selected Nicholas Sanchez on flyhalf there's no way Argentina lost this match. They literally selected a winger to play 10 and he had no idea how to orchestrate the backline or take control of the situation. No one can orchestrate a game like Nicholas Sanchez. He's Similar to Hugo Porta.

[@LucrismLukas]

Baffling. Carreras cost them the game

[@tomorrow3582]

That was the worst Argentina performance I've ever seen. You can't put it down to one player.

[@MarioGarcia-bf6mf]

​​@@tomorrow3582I agree, but Carreras was the worst of them all.

[@MarioGarcia-bf6mf]

​@@tomorrow3582also Lavinini was terrible. Surprisingly he didn't get send off🤣

[@vinniechan]

Argentina lost it in the tight 5 England pack put Ford in the position and because Argentina couldn't tie the defence up their back line became moot

[@jonbrook4009]

Top show guys. Don't always agree with what you think but your sincerity and honesty makes a helluva change.

[@Konst_Abel]

As a bok fan I must say that England were the surprise package of the weekend. Did not back them to beat Argentina. In fact I had the pumas by 10. Chuffed for you guys but please just real it in a bit. I saw the rugby analyst give player ratings with 8’s and 9’s going around. Look, I get that game plan goes out the window with a red card but England never looked like scoring a try in 80min against a woeful Argentina. That already makes your performance a 6 at best. These are world class players, if they played at a 9 out of 10 they would be World Cup favorites. Again, super happy for you guys but please calm down.

[@hafidkouloun6405]

Totally agree with you!

[@standelone1674]

Plonker,fair weather supporter no heart of loyalty

[@Konst_Abel]

@@standelone1674 what are you on about?

[@TheFlyingScotzman]

I will tell Borths about your post.

[@Konst_Abel]

@@TheFlyingScotzman ok, so how will that calm down English fans and pundits?

[@gobiron4916]

Argentina, Fiji and Georgia all went into this round with some fairly heavy expectations weighing on them. And it showed. The eyes gave it away.

[@Gilan4983]

When I learned to play rugby (admittedly a long time ago), the default was tackle was round the legs. the guidance was the body follows the head, the head follows the eyes. When you close distance looking at your opponents head it's hard not to hit it

[@robertstrachan3482]

Tackling around the legs stops the player but not the offload. At international level not stopping offloads loses games, which is why they all hit higher

[@Gilan4983]

@@robertstrachan3482 I get the tactic has changed but they’re talking about how hard it is to tackle lower when it used to be the norm. But I would think lower tackles and more offloads could be more entertaining, especially if it cuts down the TMO interventions. Just has to the same for everyone

[@thecuttingsark5094]

A player should be held accountable for how they enter the collision zone, irrespective of the outcome. If you sprint at a player with an upright position then you should see a card, whether you happen to have head on head or head on shoulder or whatever.

[@zisssssou]

Tricky question... Because England "drop goals" answer was as good as Argentina 15vs14 players was bad and sterile. England will certainly qualify for the 1/4 finals, but the coming chapter is hard to write.

[@TheStubertos]

Agreed. Although I think we could nick one from Australia like this which would result in at least a semi final appearance!

[@christianwithers7335]

Yes the inconsistency is dreadful, but the Kriel or other tackles which could occur from a tackler who is actually low, knees bent and hits with a slight head on head would be a yellow missing 10 minutes. A tiny bit more force, maybe slightly more blood is a red, missing on average 40 minutes and then 240 minutes. So, the very thin line between yellow and red results in 270 extra minutes of ban !!!!!!

[@borisgulliver4970]

Great point, there needs to be red with no match bans, one game ban, up to 2 or 4

[@stigkrakpants3052]

orange card, sent off for the game but no further missed games?

[@NotThatOneThisOne]

There are lots of physical positions that many people find hard, but enough practice drills it into muscle memory so it's second nature. Doesn't have to be a dramatic movement, like the triple jump or diving; fretting guitar chords is difficult. My point is that the reason these players aren't going lower is that it doesn't matter what they plan to do if their instinctive position is high, and the only way to stop it is to practice so much that they don't have to think about it. They haven't practiced it enough.

[@LMcAwesome]

I suppose the point is that they have been trained to tackle a certain height for 20+ years and in a number of these cases a common theme was that something changed in the second before impact. Under pressure, people do as they have drilled. Yes they havent practiced enough but i would say its because its going against a lifetime of training. For me thre no big crisis - i think its exactly as you would expect following a rules change in that in the immediate aftermath there are a number of high profile incidents of people getting it wrong. Over time it will reduce. When Lewis Hamilton moved to Mercedes from McLaren, in the season after he actually stopped at the McLaren bay during a pit stop. Thats how habits work.

[@patrickchilds2987]

I think some of it down to coaching and other times it is luck. Consider your first recever. Farrell and all #10 are coached to essentially defend their channel with a bump rather than a full tackle. The thinking is that this will provide time gor a back row to make the full tackle and gor the #10 to return his position instead of being under a pile of players. Certainly Farrell has misjudged his tackle as he goes guts in instead of bumping . Bigger and Russell had close calls in yheir defence. I think gor tje playmaker its tricky. On opposition ball Tuilagi and later Lawrence moved to the #10 spot. This worked well however in some cases cards are a bit of a lottery

[@adedavison762]

I played rugby for 38 years, both codes! always tackled hip level or lower you can’t run without your legs 🤔

[@LMcAwesome]

@@adedavison762 No i get it, its a great way to tackle. Particularly in a size mismatch or in broken play, etc. At the professional level in both codes though that tackle is going to lose you valuable metres and open the opportunity for offloads. In league in particular dominant collisions are an absolutely essential part of the game and a "high" (say nipple height) tackle is absolutely coached into player and im surprised to hear you werent corrected. Regardless, your personal experience doesnt really change the fact that these players have tackled a certain way EVEN IF THEY SHOULDNT for a long time and in moments of stress are reverting to habit, which is exactly what you would expect people to do.

[@chrish4976]

Yes, a great performance from England. But I think it's always dangerous to talk about a turnaround based on one good match (especially following a long series of shockers). I hope they have turned things round ... but let's wait and see.

[@theMull90]

I'm not English &by no means an English "hater". I would be careful about getting too carried away with the win over Argentina. - The drop goals: these were not part of some master gameplan. it is not a case that Ford and Borthwick went out there with the idea of, every chance we get early, just stick the boot to it, over the bar, keep the score ticking over. This was a game of George Ford brilliance, and now that they know they can do it, against teams to the quality Argentina played over the weekend, then I would be worried you become over reliant on it against teams that won't give you too many of those opportunities in the later rounds (thinking quarters and on, and even against Samoa too). - Defence: essentially running on from the first point, if you are to go about and really implement this drop goal strategy, and compliment it with penalties, then you absolutely need to have a whopper defence. Based on six nations and pre season England do not have this, however if they were holding back, and then they need to prove it now, and during the knock out stages. otherwise, their penalties and droop goals just won't earn enough points against the very best in the world, e.g. France will run in 2 or 3 tries, while england score 2 or three 3 pointers, etc. - Creativity: Secondly, you really created nothing from a try scoring perspective, and I mean nothing, not even close. This is the area that will most need improving on, and has needed improving on most, for about a year now. It might get you toa quarters, but against somebody who will score at least two, and probably more tries, like Aus, Fra, NZ, SA, Ire etc. you are going to have to create more opportunities, and this kicking the ball almost everytime you get possession is going to have to get a few tricks up its sleeve if its going to create some scores against top defences. - Overall strategy: this is fairly similar again to the creativity I suppose, but I mean, I don't think you can win a modern world cup, when you are kicking as much ball away as england do, which is essentially all of it as I believe 96% was the stat. You would need to become more physical than SA, fitter than any other team, gain more strength in depth and gain two or three outside backs that would be considered in the top 5 in terms of chasing and catching high kicks, for that strategy to even begin to look like world cup winning idea against todays top teams. In the past and eve, in the last world cup, maybe, but not in this on.like Again, maybe they are holding their cards tight to their chest, but going by what we have seen so far, they will need to show much more to convince us they can make a good run. - Discipline: now I personally believe that Curry was very hard done by, given the man was just landing, and given the fact there were two similar upright head contact tackles that went without even a penalty over the weekend. We cannot have a sport looking to go global, with three identical tackles, almost, with one earning potentially a 4 week ban, at least, while the other two aren't even a penalty or yellow card, absolute joke. However the point on this for England, you now have this high tackle "masters" label, and you are going to have to be so much more careful than you have been when it comes to contact, as Refs seem to be honing in on you now, rightly or wrongly. It is again, another thing in knockout rugby that could be the difference.

[@standelone1674]

Ur full of b/s

[@lousasol315]

Look at all the things that had to take place in order for George Ford to get this moment. Absolutely AMAZING!!!

[@davidmoon8464]

Best assessment of tackle problem I’ve seen, walk on down Jim Hamilton! Perhaps a little more on the lack of consistency in refereeing; 3 tackles over the weekend all exactly the same, all handled very differently. Do England have a perception problem with referees now as they don’t get away with tackles that other sides do? I think so, referees need to be equally precise with other sides.

[@paulconnolly8145]

The absolute notions of trying to squeeze farrel in at 12. Like he has to start, put him on the bench

[@garysmith2983]

Goodey hitting the Just For Men big time.

[@garysmith2983]

Farrell red, Vunipola red, Curry- rugby incident. Watch it in real time.

[@christianwithers7335]

Yes Curry was too high FACT

[@jackgtravis]

There’s no such thing as a rugby incident, there’s the laws and he’s never dipped and had time to anticipate the collision, it’s a red. If we want to keep this game alive we need to stop looking at the card and look at that collision. Would you want your son/daughter to get hit like that and it be okay?

[@garysmith2983]

@@jackgtravisThe rugby world seems to be divided on this issue. People like me who have played a lot of rugby over a number of years at a descent level and know some head collisions, like Curry’s, are accidental and unavoidable, and the rest.

[@Pepgang]

I'm sorry but Argentina lost against themselves. The drop kicks from Ford killed them and they had no desire, passion or leadership to come back.

[@joeboonmusic4004]

So... They lost against themselves... Because of Ford kicking perfectly...? Sounds a lot like losing because of England playing better to me.

[@robfoxton9020]

You just contradicted yourself

[@LucrismLukas]

​@@joeboonmusic4004they definitely lost against themselves. 14 vs 15 and they didn't take advantage of it. Instead they became cocky and ran out of ideas. They had no integrity to find solutions.

[@LucrismLukas]

​@@joeboonmusic4004also they played with no flyhalf. Carreras cost them the game. His a winger not flyhalf. Cheika got it completely wrong not selecting Sanchez.

[@Pepgang]

@@joeboonmusic4004 England definitely played better because Argentina was shite.

[@Levi3D]

i don't find agreeing with Goodie a particularly regular habit, but on the tackle/red card issue, he is bang on. Jim's point on Japan v Chile (Imagine the Chilean team in a semi pro league near you!) is so succinct. Great work gents.

[@barkerk100]

Excellent point re ITV's ambulance chasing. Its time that media managers look closely at themselves and start reporting what did happen, and avoided stoking controversy with conjecture.

[@nojosm]

Andy;s ginger stick on quiff ! What about Biggar's deliberate offside ?

[@Karma-qt4ji]

No Goodey, it doesn't work like that. If the citing commissioner has not cited Jesse Kriel within the citing window, then either he still has not seen the incident (ridiculous argument) or he does not think it has reached the red card threshhold, so it was not a red card as you say. And that's the problem - if World Rugby released a press statement exonerating Jesse, some people would still argue *or* use it as a "precedent" to exonerate other incidents. The TMO has high definition video from several angles and if he is happy that it was a rugby incident with no foul play, then play on; this constant controversy loop that we find ourselves in is slowly killing the game. For the first time in a long time, we are seeing good quality tech used by the officials and we hold up a grainy screenshot from one angle to indignantly "prove" our case. Have any of you actually seen the quality of the footage available? A sample was released in the form of a slomo of the cross field kick that led to the try - it is on the World Cup channel. Go look at it - you can almost see the colour of the players' eyes but we prefer to believe the grainy screenshot because confirmation bias. It's time journos, pundits, team management and players stood behind WR and at least gave the process a fair shot rather than fuelling controversy at every turn.

[@haydenjacobs5866]

Ditto

[@christianwithers7335]

Where is this channel you mention?

[@Karma-qt4ji]

@@christianwithers7335 Rugby World Cup. Here is a link to the video I was talking about. When you watch the video - just remember that Manie was half way between the halfway line and the 10y line, so 45 metres from the goal line. The camera has got to be further back than that but can cleary make out his shoe laces, from 50 metres away! Anyway here's the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpDcoWqPbdynrdE

[@LucrismLukas]

That was the worst advertisement for rugby ever. Good lord I almost fell asleep. Both teams were shocking. The Pumas looked like a tier 3 team with the amount of penalties they conceded. Must be a world record. a Utter Disgrace to rugby. Pathetic!!

[@si5883]

The truth is that Argentina were awful. England were not suddenly good. Still got no attacking ability.

[@egw2707]

The most boring game i have ever watched ....kick,penalty, kick the whole game

[@stevenburrow8804]

To be honest, I'm quite glad Jesse Kriel wasn't carded, for the following reasons: 1. It highlights the point the Rassie video was making, that is still an issue unfortunately; 2. It would have resulted in pressure to card Russel for Arendse, and the 2 players who wrapped De Allande around the neck; 3. I think it's obvious that rules were made for player safety, and cards should be awarded accordingly. Not just according to the letter. In my opinion, in the Chile game if I'm not mistaken, there was a late chop tackle, which seems more dangerous than Curry's accidental head-on-head. 4. They need to use more discretion regarding the degree of danger, but apply consistently

[@williamforsyth-ye4rc]

💩💩💩

[@TheStubertos]

I was feeling so negative about this world cup for England...But having seen a match where we had a clear game plan and executed it well was quite encouraging. The forwards were brutal, got us into great positions on the pitch and Fordy converted it into points. I think if we play like this we can go far in the tournament (Mainly because of the lop-sided tourament draw!) but I don't think we'll beat Ireland, France or SA like that...NZ would be tricky too.

[@matthewwardle4261]

Kreil had about 25 minutes to adjust his height. Coaches are coaching dominant upright tackles. It’s down to them.

[@AZJZ97]

I think England drop Marcus if they’re going to continue to play this style - realistically Farrell and Ford have better game management. As England continue to develop for the next RWC cycle - Marcus will probably manage the team around and game-plan based around his strengths.

[@jasonbloomfield3071]

Totally agree the replays they used on ITV were focusing on the wrong aspect of each phase.

[@gprugby]

Anyone else noticed that pundits these days just tend to come out with cliches and follow what other pundits/media outlets are saying rather than actually having a real understanding of the game as it is in this moment?

[@dmajorvgm8735]

As much as the game against Argentina was a huge improvement, I personally would still like to see us be a bit more ambitious with our play style. I do love all facets of the game, and the variety is one of the things that makes Union uniquely special, but I still do predominantly tune in to see us make great attacking plays, and can’t help but be a little disappointed when we continue to kick away almost all our possession without even trying to attack. I’d rather lose some games playing ambitious, entertaining rugby than be known as the team who plays the most boring style of rugby, which is pretty much what we are right now. I really admire what Scotland are doing, I wish we had a similar attitude

[@leonrobinson2053]

England won because they did everything well in the forward which meant Argentina couldn't get out of 1st gear. The back especially the wings are still a huge problem. Better teams won't make the one off mistakes Argentina did and they'll kill us with pace.

[@jackieramsay-fraser8396]

As a Scotland fan trying to be as neutral as possible, the one thing that would concern me is the inability of England to score a try against what was really poor opposition.

[@2011hwalker]

errrr England had *14* men, most teams in that position lose heavily....England played the circumstances perfectly. Absolutely incredible to win by double digit points with 14 men for 75 minutes.

[@standelone1674]

As an england fan and in reply to your b/s.we beat the argies with 14 men,you jocks lost and was whupped bad by the boks.what experience if any of RWC sucess has Scotland had?have you been in numerous finals or more to the point have you won it? Get ya own house in order ie book them early flights back to Edinburgh etc.

[@budyza180]

Excellent job behind the mic, Jim! You're a natural born commentator. Dare I say, the new Bill McLaren?

[@saturdayplayer2492]

Don't get carried away. Argentina were terrible. Ford was excellent. Great efforts from Lawes and Earl but there was not a single line break. Will pause judgement

[@jonesyjones7626]

Another factor is that whenever Marius Jonker is the TMO, England seldom get the best decisions and appear to get more scrutiny than others.

[@neilbe7118]

He's such a jonker

[@sean.butterworth]

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

[@soundscapemusic8980]

I thought we might be in trouble when I saw he was TMO. So obvious he hates England

[@Backpfeifengesicht45]

Fewer tries than Romania scored against the world's top ranked team. One scorer for the entire game. Relax, FFS.

[@livsarahs7600]

Please can someone explain the disciplinary process? Is every game reviewed afterward ? Does the bunker remove further review ? Can the WC cite players? Why aren’t our press raising questions re South African tackle? About Argentinian number 10?

[@downsy4567]

Every single game at RWC is watched by a WR appointed citing officer, who has access to all the footage from all views and angles available after the match. They have 36hrs after the end of the match to cite any players that they believe were involved in an incident that would have led to a red card. Each team also has 12hrs to bring to the attention of the citing officer any incidents of foul play they believe were missed. So plenty of options to review any incidents worthy of a red card (not yellow) and send them up to a Disciplinary Committee

[@downsy4567]

I think it's highly unlikely, but not impossible, that a citing officer would override the decision of a FPRO (in the bunker) as there are 2 FPROs with 8mins to review all footage available, whilst the Ref/AR/TMO carry on with the match, perhaps if there is a camera angle not seen at the time that clearly shows something new? 🤔

[@tomb2840]

Have they got better week on week?

[@SteveDonaldson-r5k]

I suppose they have, but the bar was very low.

[@horfieldboy9478]

43 out of 46 pieces of possession kicked away.! The intensity was there which we haven't seen before but this is not a good sign for the future. Argentina had a nightmare and will never play that poorly again. Great performance when down to 14 men, confidence is important so progress but lets not get carried away.

[@PauloJorgeMonteiro]

England played knock-out rugby since Curry's sent off. More important than the win, it was the manner of how they did it. Calm, collected, clinical and with a huge heart. To me it was the surprise so far of the tournment, especially when the yelllow was upgraded to red. Having said that, Argentina was the biggest disapointment of week one. They pushed the boks at Jo'burg, defeated the Aussies and the All Blacks last year. They are a very good team. They were deflated on the day. Those 3 drop goals kept scoreboard pressure. George Ford held the bull by the horns and that was that.

[@markflower3934]

Red card, my arse

[@charliebannon5489]

As a neutral, no, England have not turned things around. England v Argentina was a really boring game for a neutral. I turned off the TV after 60 minutes. Both teams were awful, but England were right to go for penalties and drop goals as its the only way they could have won. Having said that, England will probably get to a semi final only because they are on the eay side of the draw. Whoever gets England or Argentina in the semi final will be delighted.

[@jonbrook4009]

More so if Farrell and Youngs are selected.

[@PhillipDawson10]

As an online commentator you have to be honest as well, the one angle shows looks like Jessie Kriel has head to head contact. From the other side, you can see Jessie's head's hits the ball, so that was NOT a red card. You have the responsbilbility as an online commentator to be accurate as well and not hype a situation incorrectly.

[@haydenjacobs5866]

Don't tarnish the "Pod", Andy! That is a serious accusation you are leveling at supersport. You know they are watching. But because of Jim we will forgive you.😅 check the bunker system camera access. You will find it is quite sophisticated. Maybe you and jim should take us on a tour?

[@jingleballix]

Curry’s card was one thing........more of a red card was Carreras’s challenge on Ford - it was unequivocally reckless. The word ‘reckless’ was added to the law recently.

[@DarioOle-tp5tp]

We Argentina 🇦🇷 won the Football world cup despite losing the first match against Saudi Arabia. Los Pumas will be crowned world Champs. Remember this comment.

[@user-qj6to4yj3s]

🤣👏

[@Pepgang]

Messi should play flyhalf.

[@hugomarx1324]

Vamos Pumas 🙌

[@LucrismLukas]

Lmao 🤣🤣🤣

[@MarioGarcia-bf6mf]

I'll remember it😊

[@expressoevangelism80]

Kicking away so much possession. When playing the inside centre at wing forward who are you going to pass to? That is the only excuse I think I will accept.

[@davidevenden9294]

simply England were ok. Argentina sxxt. England never looked like scoring a try though. Also ben earl chill out. Celebrating like you've just won the world cup over a opposition knock on is beyond a joke.

[@mrdrevilporkchop666]

Japan will be a great game as we should get scoring tries. Keep Farrell out and bring smith on at 55 mins

[@user-rv4go7ry3v]

Please note high tackles are not the coach. Farrell, Billy, Curry; they are all back into the squad after a long time out... wanting to make an impact? Not mentally into the team defence yet? Not training long enough in the defensive system... lesson; don't quickly bring players back into the starting 15: win the shirt back from the bench.

[@matyoukee799]

Surely the point is this: England have played shit all year when playing Borthwick's game plan. When England went down to 14 that game plan went out the window and Ford had to fly solo and do what he needs to do. So why not just let Ford decide how to play all the time? He's a huge rugby brain, but its been obvious in previous games that hes been kicking when in years past he would have passed.

[@matthewmcneil6328]

Goodie fine Curry's tackle was a red but where is the consistency? Tackles like that happened 3 more times over the weekend and there were no reviews and no cards.

[@RelativeStrength798]

Loved watching ford slot them kicks over! Great performance

[@seamus9750]

One swallow and all that jazz !!!!

[@dalenewton9697]

The players aren't adapting to the tackle height changes at the pace demanded by WR because the players aren't on board with the changes. Very simple. This is what happens (remember when the NBA did this?) when the governing organization imposes changes on the game at the pro level without the majority support of the pros that play the game. Hardly surprising is it?

[@CLIFTYPOPS]

No one's saying this but did Michael Cheika intentionally not take this game as seriously as he could have due to Eddie J being the Aus coach, maybe Cheika was making a prediction in the quarters.....

[@stuartedwards8188]

Tackle height won't change until players are coached to tackle low.

[@chrisbirmingham5132]

Refereeing is currently inconsistent and fashion-driven. A few years ago, red cards were being give out like confetti for tackling a player in the air.. At the weekend an Argentinian forward hit Steward in the air and didn't even receive a yellow. A red card for an accidental head clash ruined the women's world cup final as a fair contest and could easily ruin the men's.

[@mattwells3818]

Goodey's hair is magnificent.

[@Grumpy_Hobbit]

Tom Curry card. A still photo of the impact shows both his legs bent, his shoulder below nipple height and in preparation of the impact. My question is, If you give the highest punishment for an accidental collision, What informs the players that a malicious act is deemed more serious? You cannot assign the same level of punishment for an accident as you do for an intentional penalty. Well you can but you get the almost every game travesty when it happens.

[@thomasdavison-pegon7093]

The length of the ban is currently the only mechanism that makes that difference.

[@Grumpy_Hobbit]

@@thomasdavison-pegon7093 A malicious act to win a game is just as bad as an accidental head clash in the eyes of the law currently and that just is just not good. Scenario. World cup match. Would a player who wins the game through malicious intent care about the punishment post game? Should such an act have an in game punishment equal to an accident? Or rather, should the game be punishing accidents when there are medical procedures in place to do as much as possible to provide player welfare and the color of the card doesn't change the action? In all these discussions I keep going back to what a red card is there for and penalizing accidents just does not make sense. Not when I played and not now.

[@soundscapemusic8980]

That’s the thing. You can do what Curry did or give someone an intentional flying knee to the head and get the same punishment 😂 Atleast on the field that is

[@thomasdavison-pegon7093]

@@Grumpy_Hobbit Of course I'm not arguing it deserves the same on field punishment. I was simply stating that under the current framework, the length of the ban after the match is the only thing that differentiates between an unintentonal head clash and unching a player in the face. It doesn't make sense and i do anticipate that this will change sooner or later.

[@Grumpy_Hobbit]

@@thomasdavison-pegon7093Apologies if you thought I was making an accusation against you when I was just responding with my thoughts about the current situation with the game rules at the highest levels. I did not take your comment as confrontational and responded in the same vein but it obviously didn't hit the mark. Apologies again.

[@-NemoMeImpuneLacessit]

Can Kriel be cited? Surely his tackle was the same as curry's?

[@Karma-qt4ji]

The citing window is only 36 hours and he was not cited. And that means that the citing commissioner did not think it met the threshhold for a red card. The tackle was not the same as Curry's. He hit the ball and then brushed cheeks with the ball carrier. There was no force, no HIA required, both players just carried on playing because play had not even stopped. That is a far cry from two heads violently colliding requiring two HIA's and bandages all around to stop the bleeding.

[@constanttruth1751]

But kriel missed zero minutes. Curry 4 games, stupid, how thick is the dividing line between possible yellow and a red?

[@Karma-qt4ji]

@@constanttruth1751 But Kriel was only a "possible yellow" in the eyes of some fans and pundits. Can we really imagine that with the TMO did not see an incident with all the technology at his disposal, but the commentators did? And if the TMO did see it, he would have looked at it in the same way as he looked, for instance, the Russell body block later on and if he had found something that warranted even a penalty then he would have called it to the referees attention. So let's assume that with the myriad of high def cameras streaming footage through to him, the TMO saw the incident. Does that seem fair? Since he did not call it to the referees attention, then he obviously thought it was nothing more than a rugby incident and was happy to play on. The citing commissioner did not see any red card threshhold so he too never needed to step in. No case even to close. Tell you what my issue is (I seem to be repeating myself but whatev)... there is a video on the Rugby World Cup channel that shows the cross field kick that led to the try, I will link it below. From a camera approximately 50 metres away, the definition is so high that you can clearly see the clips used to secure Manie's shoelaces. Kriel has been tried and found guilty by social media on the evidence of a single grainy frame from one side only with no context leading into it - the TMO has technology that can show shoelaces from 50 metres away; why TF are we believing the frame and assuming the TMO did not do his job? Here's the link kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpDcoWqPbdynrdE

[@DanCap123]

George Ford 🤝 Theuns Kotze Scoring a quick-fire hat-trick of drop goals

[@Chris-Clark48]

So basically as a player you could hop and jump around the pitch and no one can tackle you until you hit the ground???

[@SimonGhostRileyTF141]

Let's be honest, England have it easy to the semi finals. They'd be lucky to get 4th in group A or B.

[@2011hwalker]

England would beat Scotland if they played next week. Scotland always look overawed in World Cups, it aint the comfort of the six nations. England have risen to the occasion.

[@SimonGhostRileyTF141]

@@2011hwalker you should do stand up. England would be lucky to beat Tonga or Italy.

[@Nic0909]

Yeah they won. But what a terrible way to play rugby. Not good for the game

[@carlosl-f2433]

Ford v Arg .epic. Shades of Jannie De Beer 1999 RWC France.

[@neilbe7118]

Good defensively, but meh not a chance

[@Danimal13]

England need a better plan A than just defend and drop goals, we’re going to need to score tries if we’re going to go far in the tournament because all it will take is one bad kicking day and we lose, we need to at least try and score a try first then go for a drop goal from the 22 not from the half way like last game

[@rob.1]

You must have missed the bit where we had a man sent off.

[@Danimal13]

@@rob.1 means nothing, we would have played that way no matter what, just like we played for the last 2 years and you say that but look at what Fiji did with 14 men, you make out like it’s impossible to play a man short

[@davemis40]

@@Danimal131 down for 78 minutes is an impressive feat for a team that’s been written off. Opposition teams will now have to be wary about the drop goal .. creates space and opportunities elsewhere.

[@mowerman60]

What did fiji do with 14 men ??

[@Mikeup104]

If England win a world cup with the way they are playing, are South Africans allowed to tell them to change the rules cuz its sooo booooooring or are we finally accepting winning is what counts?

[@MySubconsciousFriend]

If, if. If my Aunt had testicles she would be my Uncle

[@j.mahoney1178]

Argentina where terrible, the whole game was complete shite.

[@Pepgang]

The Pumas should be ashamed of themselves for insulting the game of rugby like that. Good lord I think a school team would've beaten them.

[@Judebb1]

Im not sure if jim is talking about the same situation but chile got a yellow card under review and i thought that was what itv talked about at half time

[@jonathanconway8094]

Has Goodey got a new hairpiece?

[@danielknowles4502]

Am I wrong in thinking that this shadow of Farrell over Ford led us to a final?

[@jonbrook4009]

A final lost in grand fashion and a series of games post-WC that were absolutely atrocious. Yes, that shadow of Farrell that doesn't work with him at 10 or 12

[@danielknowles4502]

@@jonbrook4009Still got us our winning streak to match NZ’s record. Not only that but it’s proven to work at that level, so it’s clearly better than starting from scratch when Ford and no Farrell isn’t proven. Just an evidence based decision in my opinion.

[@rob.1]

Plenty of salt in the comments. England won a game you all hoped they would lose. Just accept it happened. Relax.

[@JohnHirsch88]

Eddie seething that an Englishman got England to play the most English rugby ever

[@johnnyboy4711]

Argentina looked like rabbits in the headlights,they bet themselves!

[@joshhewitt105]

The simple answer is no, but they are improving at last.

[@peterwomersley]

The TMO has it thatthere was no head contact The ball came between them Luckily The evidence was no damage at that speed

[@tintin7280]

If there is a debate to be had Then the debate Should be about the whole concept around a yellowcard for head to head contact. Which is absurd by it self. Not to mention a red. Inadvertently people are legitimizing the framework by the baiting Whether or not there is consistency Even though the Foundation of the framework Is fundamentally flawed.

[@Jackthompson01]

Howling at the voice note 😂😂😂

[@jeffadams7168]

Too early to say England have turned it around but was a good performance! So 🤞🏼things slowly improving!😏🤞🏼🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@offal]

they were shite because England rattled them, they literally didn`t know what to do.

[@hugomarx1324]

Argentinas flyhalf was utter shite to be honest. He took no control of the situation.

[@jonbrook4009]

@@hugomarx1324 But his drop-goal attempt was worth the entrance fee :)

[@hugomarx1324]

@@jonbrook4009 lol that was horrendous 😭 my granny can drop better than that.

[@davidpearn2484]

Goodey talking about the semi's, bloody hell they've got to get out of the quarters nothing guaranteed Goodey boyo.

[@ashleysoudah]

where's arundell?

[@bashab3098]

Nope they haven’t Englands weakness is defence in the wide channels , and Argentina never threatened there , even against 14 men , other teams won’t have a flanker at first receiver all day long .