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Havelock Wool Company Tour - Wool Insulation

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Jarrod Tocci

Jarrod Tocci

5 жыл бұрын

You want know about wool then this should help you a little bit. I was amazed of the scale of operation of this and how they sew the wool together.
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Пікірлер: 129
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
I didn't ask pricing or go over pricing only because there's so many variations of pricing. You can get 2" up to 8" batt insulation and then there's the loose fill too. All the information is on their website and if you have pricing questions please email them and they will get back to you. They do have a VanLife special and they even have the amount of bags needed for which van you have. www.havelockwool.com
@DanaTwoPonies
@DanaTwoPonies 5 жыл бұрын
I'm looking forward to seeing your new van completed Jarrod.
@vanlifeforgoldenrhodes
@vanlifeforgoldenrhodes 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for doing this video and thanks to Havelock Wool for showing how it's done and for doing it. I've been leaning towards wool already and this sealed the deal. Getting it to Sweden is another issue.
@fabriciooliveira3720
@fabriciooliveira3720 7 ай бұрын
Wool is amazing, during my fist contact with snow, in a hike in Switzerland, I was soaked and my down jacket failed on me, my long sleeve merino wool saved me wicking the moisture from my body and keeping me warm. Definitely the best clothing material there is. I could never imagine how warm a thin soft shell wind breaker and a merino baselayer would be.
@TheRock-xj7hs
@TheRock-xj7hs Жыл бұрын
Awesome video. I’m from Providence, the home of mobsters and lobsters 55 minutes south of Bawston … Where we drink corefee and walk our dawgs 🤣… Anyway I’m in the process of building out my 2019 Chevy express 3500 extended van/passenger van and I just bought two boxes of the Havelock wall and I’m loving it… I got a way to go stuffing it in the little holes but I’m on it… Great video… And a great value…
@baanjones5910
@baanjones5910 2 жыл бұрын
I love wool products. Healthy and warm. Superior product - Indeed!!!
@thatpantransguy
@thatpantransguy 4 жыл бұрын
If I didn’t love Havelock Wool already I certainly am in love with it now... knowing that you use raw compostable materials AND repurposed machines that came from the old days just really brings a smile to my face 🤟🏼 I haven’t even ordered my van insulation yet, but I’ve always planned to use havelock wool when I get around to it. And the fact that it’s so affordable is the nice juicy cherry on top. You guys are amazing and I’m so happy you’re doing what you do!
@susanscovill6817
@susanscovill6817 3 жыл бұрын
Very important tour for me. I was pretty much settled on Havelock but this cinches it for me. I have leagues so keeping the carcinogens and formaldehyde etc out will be seriously important for me as a full time VanLifer. You rocked this one Jerod! Cheers from Canader eh!
@sifthor
@sifthor 5 жыл бұрын
That was fantastic. I was worried about condensation because I live in the Ottawa area and it humidity here can get crazy but he was right when talking about the wool socks. Don't know why my brain didn't make that connection. Thanks Jarrod for this informative video.
@BarryDuttonSellsHomes
@BarryDuttonSellsHomes 5 жыл бұрын
I am west of you closer to Toronto and going to sell my house and hit the road. You guys get some of the worst weather there is in Canadastan barring the East coast LOL. If you are out this way the next few months, LMK. I am just north of the 401 exit.
@mkmcnm710
@mkmcnm710 5 жыл бұрын
So appreciate you and Havelock for this information! Definitely will be using this in my build! Thanks again Jarrod!
@catherinebrown8934
@catherinebrown8934 2 жыл бұрын
I grew up in Concord, too!!! Looking forward to purchasing this for my off grid house in AZ. As a prior alpaca breeder, I can truly appreciate the value of the product;
@RedElectric3
@RedElectric3 4 жыл бұрын
You're videos rock dude! They have given me so many ideas on how to not only build my own van, but build it the way that will get me what I need. Thank you so much! You're amazing and the work you show is amazing too! I cannot say thank you enough. Please don't stop
@michaelcorrothers8340
@michaelcorrothers8340 5 жыл бұрын
I have HAVELOCK in my van it is awesome! I would do it again in an instant.
@lunaflamed
@lunaflamed 3 жыл бұрын
Updates
@InfiniteSoul91
@InfiniteSoul91 3 жыл бұрын
For those people questioning farming practices here in New Zealand not being ethical, I can assure you that New Zealand are world leaders in animal welfare farming practices. Stock are pasture raised and the sheep are shorn twice a year. We are an agricultural country and the farmer's have a deep love for not only being caretaker's of their stock but also the land. I should know, I am a Farmer's daughter who was lucky enough to be raised in this beautiful country.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 3 жыл бұрын
I want to visit as I only hear amazing things about New Zealand
@cynthiastaats1491
@cynthiastaats1491 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this video Jarrod! Exactly what I was looking for (seeing the behind the scenes process of making Havelock wool insulation)!
@bc2198
@bc2198 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I've just decided on using wool for my van build. I've been watching a lot of videos for the last few weeks. This one was great.
@wildbrookies
@wildbrookies 3 жыл бұрын
Man, just saw this..Amazing!! Love this !! Thanx Jarrod!! Gotta get this pretty soon!.. Thanks for you're time… and expertise…planning on using this Havelock.. very informational and definitely a game changer..
@cthulhu9136
@cthulhu9136 2 жыл бұрын
The felt it together, cool
@SM-em3ii
@SM-em3ii 5 жыл бұрын
Above and beyond as usual! You rock dude!
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you 😊
@GrahamFielder
@GrahamFielder 4 жыл бұрын
This was so awesome to see. Ordered some for my new build last week and this has me stoked on it
@bearborg9986
@bearborg9986 5 жыл бұрын
I love this video. I'm sold on the wool when I get my van and when I eventually build my tiny home.
@lunaflamed
@lunaflamed 3 жыл бұрын
Updates?
@lifeofliz1650
@lifeofliz1650 5 жыл бұрын
I'm sold on the wool.
@janetfeathers4128
@janetfeathers4128 5 жыл бұрын
Really enjoyed this video, I am thinking seriously about wool insulation. thx
@boufd2008
@boufd2008 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Jarrod, I hope to be starting a van build soon , I'm learning towards wool . This video only solidified my reasons for wanting to use wool,
@mbusch76
@mbusch76 5 жыл бұрын
Great video, great information. Thanks to you and Josh for doing it.
@myjavadogs
@myjavadogs 4 жыл бұрын
It’s on my list for our future build! Thanks!
@mariak6613
@mariak6613 4 жыл бұрын
Ummm I think he just answered every question I ever could think of about wool and then some. Great video, just solved my how will I insulate my van!
@tdivyak
@tdivyak 3 жыл бұрын
Wow.. super informative and glad I found this before going the "Chemical" route on my build. Just seems like it would be much cozier inside as well.
@fayestrudler8258
@fayestrudler8258 5 жыл бұрын
This is great! I came upon havelock wool while researching natural insulation options a few days ago. This just confirms my decision to go with this product!
@avocado3748
@avocado3748 5 жыл бұрын
Awesome thanks for the info and tour. I didn’t know the benefits over foam.
@helimx
@helimx 4 жыл бұрын
Again, another super informative video. And I'm in northern nevada, so I'm going away from spray foam after watching this.
@edmeredith
@edmeredith 5 жыл бұрын
Kickass interview, WOOL RULES!!! Starting a conversion end of this year and wool is unquestionably going ti be used. Thanks for this one Jarrod... Ed
@denisecarter883
@denisecarter883 4 жыл бұрын
Those needles are a felting process. And you don't need glue because of the binding quality of the scales in the wool. Why not suffix wool isn't it better for felting. And is the wool washed before it gets put into the brick
@Lilla930
@Lilla930 5 жыл бұрын
Have my Havelock wool, waiting to be installed!
@lunaflamed
@lunaflamed 3 жыл бұрын
Updates?
@Lilla930
@Lilla930 3 жыл бұрын
@@lunaflamed last Christmas in AZ when temps dropped to 30s at night it was cold but bearable! Heater hadn’t been installed yet. I feel it kept the van cooler, with just fans, this past summer too. I’m very satisfied!
@suejohnson5794
@suejohnson5794 3 жыл бұрын
Just ordered 6 weeks wait time. I want it now. Lol just bought my van
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 3 жыл бұрын
They just emailed me and they are working hard to get that time down to customers lol. You'll love it once you get it
@suejohnson5794
@suejohnson5794 3 жыл бұрын
Hope so fingers crossed 🤞
@Katsmiles4miles
@Katsmiles4miles 5 жыл бұрын
Another great video! Thank you for the info. 👏
@pinkladybikermamma3603
@pinkladybikermamma3603 4 жыл бұрын
JUST WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR.
@gwenerikson7356
@gwenerikson7356 5 жыл бұрын
♥️...I am completely sold on 100% WOOL !😊
@TheWoodensong
@TheWoodensong 5 жыл бұрын
I'm STOKED!!! - "Scooter" in East Texas
@lorirugato6463
@lorirugato6463 5 жыл бұрын
Love it gonna order for my tiny house. Thank you!!!
@maureenm508
@maureenm508 4 жыл бұрын
Just ordered two bags for my Metris cargo van.
@thejabisking5426
@thejabisking5426 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the vid, gonna check them out. I’m starting my Ford Ecoline build in a few weeks.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Awesome, good luck!
@ClimbingChiara
@ClimbingChiara 5 жыл бұрын
Such a great video. I knew a little about insulation and R value but this helps. Explained really well why wool is better, good point about the R-value test situation. When the time comes I'll know what to use! Hope this is available in Europe too. Thanks for the great video, and I don't think you guys talk fast and I'm not even a native speaker so :)
@uldiss175
@uldiss175 3 жыл бұрын
What about moths? I hear that after washing wool lose its fats and than moths love to eat it? Or they put some chemicals to protect wool?
@ImDBatty1
@ImDBatty1 5 жыл бұрын
When I figure out how I want to do my remodel, I have been looking for a source for insulation, I believe this is what I've been looking for... Thanks Jarrod for another great video! 😎 🦇
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Awesome!!
@ImDBatty1
@ImDBatty1 5 жыл бұрын
@@JarrodTocci people always ask about wool sagging over time, any perspective on this? 🦇
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
@@ImDBatty1 I think that's people trying to find a excuse. It's a wall cavity so not sure how or why it would sag. In a van there's no way for it to fall or sag
@ImDBatty1
@ImDBatty1 5 жыл бұрын
@@JarrodTocci I think like anything, vibration and time, maybe they think it will sag not knowing it has some structure to it? Either way, I just need time and money to get going on my redesign, until then I will continue to lower my debts and live with my van as is... Cheers! 🦇
@brettbutler9730
@brettbutler9730 Жыл бұрын
so that big bag at 17 min mark will work for my new van?. im trying to get a spinter
@susanshaver912
@susanshaver912 2 жыл бұрын
Good call Jarrod - I too think Havelock is the best insulation for a van! We need healthy! Thank you. (I almost fell off my chair when you said "your wool literally comes off of sheep!" . That alone was worth watching the video for. My only question, I would like to ask Josh, - what if I am super sensitive to wool? It makes me itch like crazy, except for high quality Merino Wool. Does romney (sp?) wool affect those living in the vehicle where it is used if they have reactions?? The plant looks so clean, impressive. Thank you both.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 2 жыл бұрын
I’m sure if you reach out to havelock with any questions they will answer for you
@SB-dm6pb
@SB-dm6pb 5 жыл бұрын
Cool in depth info on natural insulation..thanks!
@gidgetfrost-janvrin2173
@gidgetfrost-janvrin2173 4 жыл бұрын
Just found your channel today. 2 seconds in I could tell you were from the Boston area! LOL Born and raised Salisbury girl here. My husband is from everywhere but 'grew up' (high school years) in Lynn. I read your about page and saw that you are a comedian. Do you ever perform back home?
@melvinnclarissamartin3866
@melvinnclarissamartin3866 4 жыл бұрын
This is pretty cool we are in the process of building a house and are getting ready for insulation I never thought of wool what is what is the price difference between the all other installations? I just saw it advertised for the first time on Facebook today and we have our own organic feed mill and sell to organic farmers so I kind of like to be more on the organic line as well as I have quite a few health issues myself. So I would kind of like to have something in the house that I'm not having to worry about breathing in as well as I have three small young children.
@name.terrie
@name.terrie 5 жыл бұрын
Great info. Thanks!!!
@abdulrahmanalfar937
@abdulrahmanalfar937 3 жыл бұрын
Can I get information about the equipment used in the factory and how is the process of converting wool into an insulating material, please?
@karaleigh_eva
@karaleigh_eva 2 жыл бұрын
Is there any information on how humane the source of their wool is?
@fabriciooliveira3720
@fabriciooliveira3720 7 ай бұрын
I want this material but im from south america, I wonder if I could buy wool in bulk and take it to a textile factory and ask them to prepare it for me. There is no Havelock Wool available here, and we dont have any similar product here.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 7 ай бұрын
Have you emailed the company to find out if you can get it shipped there. They also might give other suggestions if they can’t
@treynewsom1817
@treynewsom1817 2 жыл бұрын
Jason Bateman doppelganger.
@xilei3070
@xilei3070 5 жыл бұрын
Very interesting lil tid bits of info! What are prices like for this insulation?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
You can go to their site for more info. Don't quote me on this price but I believe it's $120 for 2 bags of the 2" insulation. Much more info on the site
@Stephanie-ot5yu
@Stephanie-ot5yu 3 жыл бұрын
I am very interested in the animal treatment as well. I am leaning towards using wool because it does seem to work amazingly and do the job that nature intended it to do, but as a vegetarian want to know about the lives and treatment of the animals. It seems from the video that the wool is a byproduct of animals they were using for meat? Also, I'm curious if it is more environmentally friendly when resources to feed/water the animals are taken into consideration, and the fact that they have to have to ship it all the way from New Zealand. But I'm not sure where the regular or other insulation comes from. Anyone else struggling with these aspects of using wool?
@InfiniteSoul91
@InfiniteSoul91 3 жыл бұрын
The farming practices here in New Zealand are maintained at the highest possible standards for best animal welfare. The sheep are pasture raised, their wool is shorn twice a year. It's in every farmer's interest to keep his flock healthy because in the end the wool and meat is his livelihood. The stock have to be well cared for and healthy so that running a farm business will pay. Our farmers are also business men as there are no government subsidies to prop them up financially. I hope this helps.
@rangerider51
@rangerider51 3 жыл бұрын
When they shear the sheep, do they hurt them in any way? I like the idea of putting this in my Transit van but if their harming the animals then I feel I’m supporting cruelty to animals. Thanks!
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 3 жыл бұрын
To answer simply it's no it doesn't hurt them
@FiberFairy22
@FiberFairy22 3 жыл бұрын
I just backed up in the video and heard him slip in there “they’re bred for meat” so I’m def not using their wool. Big operations in NZ are notorious for sheep and other animal cruelty anymore :(
@rangerider51
@rangerider51 3 жыл бұрын
@@FiberFairy22 Oh, that’s too bad because I like animals and they deserve LIFE like we do.
@abdulrahmanalfar937
@abdulrahmanalfar937 3 жыл бұрын
what is the name of machine that take raw wool and its start to pull it?
@lisawolf7980
@lisawolf7980 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you 🙏🏼
@Swimdeep
@Swimdeep 4 жыл бұрын
Just found this video-excellent resource JT. Thanks. I plan on using this product for my build. BTW, do you know if it’s possible to buy direct from Havelock at the factory? Taking a trip to Reno in a couple of weeks.
@Yodaismycopilot
@Yodaismycopilot 5 жыл бұрын
Great video. At 16:38 the question is posed, regarding "Stone Wool (which I assume is also known as "Mineral Wool"): "Where does the water go?" But wouldn't one simply use a vapor barrier with mineral wool? I'm a newb with all this and starting a van build. Also. I'm not quite clear on how wool without a vapor barrier will prevent condensation on the metal innards of one's van, with potential rust and mildew. Thanks.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
The wonderful people at Havelock could answer better, but from what I understand wool adsorbs moisture and then releases it as well. If you email them then can tell you a lot more about the process.
@keithmesser1408
@keithmesser1408 5 жыл бұрын
Hi from Australia. Great video Jarrod.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@Gantzz321
@Gantzz321 5 жыл бұрын
that question needs to be asked what about "cost". How much to insulate the van?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Fair enough. You're always welcome to email them as I gave that info. Don't quote me here but I want to say it's about $120 per bag of vanlife insulation plus shipping which can vary. Also if you go to their site they have how many bags it will take to insulate different vans
@yipi1993
@yipi1993 4 жыл бұрын
build my own house using this product. great to work with. only problem is when putting the product in crawlspace or ceiling...the wool threads will get in your mouth, and its hard to get it out. need to wear a mask to prevent that.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 4 жыл бұрын
Good tip. Did you use the fill or the bat?
@khantilmakhat9974
@khantilmakhat9974 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Jarrod, great video, do you use this wool for your floor and the ceiling?
@seanreynolds5
@seanreynolds5 5 жыл бұрын
Finally a new video
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Sorry been busy building a new van 😂
@peallen007
@peallen007 5 жыл бұрын
No, I'm simply asking which is better spray foam or wool for insulation
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
In my opinion I'd go with wool. I've see spray used and it's good but it's very expensive and not easy to install. Wool is the most eco friendly product, has almost as good R-value, and won't cause mold over time.
@cdb4464
@cdb4464 5 жыл бұрын
That was an outstanding presentation! I appreciate Josh's convincing information regarding his product. Will definitely be insulating my van with this stuff. Reno here I come!! Oh yeah...call first ;D
@jordanloder
@jordanloder 4 жыл бұрын
Great episode! I bought the Havelock wool vanlife bundle and am so stoked to install it!!!
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. You'll love it!
@coco9004
@coco9004 5 ай бұрын
How thick in inches is R20 .
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 ай бұрын
On their site you can see what an inch r value is and then can do math from there
@SavedbyGrace182
@SavedbyGrace182 6 ай бұрын
woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
@roamandroot148
@roamandroot148 4 жыл бұрын
This definitely got me excited, BUT Josh is the Director of Sales, not a building scientist or someone who has experience with anything related to the sheep themselves. According to their website he has a background in sales and the services industry. He's never even been to visit their suppliers in New Zealand. Something to keep in mind. The other thing is that while their website is all about sharing the benefits of sheeps wool over every other type of insulation, they don't say anything about the animals themselves and the conditions under which they are cared for and sheered. I find this at least a major oversight, generally suspect, and at worst an intentional manipulation and misdirection of our attention. If their suppliers are stewards of sheep and this is truly a bi-product of their region that we can feel good about then I want that information just as much as all the rest.
@Equivocal-squiggle
@Equivocal-squiggle 4 жыл бұрын
I agree! I won't be able to build my van for a few years, so I've decided to jump into some deep research on sustainable and ethical building materials in the meantime. I'm trying to find a company within the states surrounding me that treats their animals well. I would like to actually volunteer my time (2-4 days probably) to learn more about the animal handling process. It's easy to ship material from a far away country, but harder to verify the conditions of the farms IN that country. While it would be easy to buy insulation from this company and call it environmentally friendly, I think I'm going to do more of my own research to hopefully find a local, sustainable, and ethical material. P.S. I'm not against Havelock Wool, I just am hoping to find something more locally sourced so that I can verify the animal living conditions and eliminate the massive amount of travel involved with NZ wool.
@kermitefrog64
@kermitefrog64 4 жыл бұрын
Where do you buy this insulation?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 4 жыл бұрын
Havelock website
@lyfandeth
@lyfandeth 5 жыл бұрын
I like the concept, sustainable nontoxic insulation. But closed cell spray insulation absorbs zero condensation, so the moisture breathing argument is simply wrong. When I hear one bogus sales puffery, I have to question the rest.
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
You're right foam doesn't absorb therefore it repels and so does foam board. He mentioned all that and when products like that repel water and moisture then where does it go? That moisture going into other products that do absorb like wood which will mold and rot over time
@nitay8248
@nitay8248 5 жыл бұрын
Lyfan Deth Yes, he mentioned all that at the beginning. You evidently missed that part.🙂
@darlaredsnowbird5304
@darlaredsnowbird5304 5 жыл бұрын
Does the wool cause allergies? I cant wear cashmere but wool socks, no problem
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Very interesting question! I have more allergies that I can count. I didn't seem to have any reaction to the wool. Is cashmere 100% wool? I'm asking because I actually don't know. For this question I'd email them and ask to find a better more professional answer
@MyNest20
@MyNest20 5 жыл бұрын
Cashmere is goat hair, guys.
@peallen007
@peallen007 5 жыл бұрын
wool vs spray in organic insulation?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Are you asking if spray is organic? You actually need to cover your body head to toe and where a mask. It could be organic but just because something is organic doesn't mean it's safe. Asbestos is organic technically
@killertoejam
@killertoejam 4 жыл бұрын
10:00 Funny dude.
@msspgj
@msspgj 5 жыл бұрын
What about bugs?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
Not worried. The process the do at the facility works on taking out what bugs are attracted to
@angelalfaro7974
@angelalfaro7974 3 жыл бұрын
Yk what’s not good for me living in a home with r7 insulation
@angelalfaro7974
@angelalfaro7974 3 жыл бұрын
Don’t get me wrong this for a van is amazing but for a home it doesn’t make sense to for anything other than fiberglass mineralwool or foam
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 3 жыл бұрын
Fiberglass and mineralwool are not good to breath in over time. Foam works well
@cerveloslcsl
@cerveloslcsl 4 жыл бұрын
Wool may be great n all and I really like this company for its eco mindset but go check out some REAL (like undercover) sheep shearing videos from New Zealand, it just may change your mind on how you feel about the wool industry. Or at least I hope it would. Thanks!
@FiberFairy22
@FiberFairy22 3 жыл бұрын
I just backed up in the video and heard him slip in there “they’re bred for meat” so I’m def using their wool.
@cerveloslcsl
@cerveloslcsl 3 жыл бұрын
Kimmi Hellman that's not very vegan of you 😕
@itisconsulting
@itisconsulting 5 жыл бұрын
I'm sold! - I'll be buying 4 single bags
@darlaredsnowbird5304
@darlaredsnowbird5304 5 жыл бұрын
Is it allowed in homes? Does it cause a fire hazard?
@JarrodTocci
@JarrodTocci 5 жыл бұрын
It works amazing in homes! Wool is a fire resident (that info is online). If you go to their site and email Josh he will send over a lot more literature and info on wool and benefits
@arvokoppel8913
@arvokoppel8913 3 жыл бұрын
Now, really. It's time to invest a bit in the front end and start using North American raw wool instead. Check out the price, cost of pre-processing (washing) and see how much money you will save! Currently, domestic wool is hanging around in warehouses since China closed its imports for political reasons. Wool here is a byproduct to roast lamb (yumm) production. (and mostly it is the stronger, less fine wool you are looking for) Try on a $0.20 per pound for the raw wool for a starting point and see how you do once you have processed it into your $5.50/lb finished, useful, beautiful product. I'll bet you'll get a marketing punch for the 'Made in the USA' logo you would carry. Heck, I'll bet you can even get some government grants to start utilizing all-North-American product! And there is plenty of it on this side of the ocean. Not shipping half-way around the world is another eco-friendly angle!
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