Hay Field Update, I have more problems then I thought.

A couple weeks ago, a farm service company got onto the wrong field, my hay field, and they sprayed it with Liberty Herbicide. The herbicide killed off my hay crop. Since then I have met with the company and we are working out the details on how they will compensate me for killing my hay field. But in the mean time I have found other issues in the field.
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[@richnusser6079]

Evan, you are a Good honest kind humble Man. I don’t think you should shoulder any of the responsibilities. Thank you for sharing your beautiful journey with us.

[@jaywest4102]

Might consider getting advise from your local extension services office, talk to another farmer that grows hay. Get their opinions on your field. Worth it to know what you have for sure and a good chance to learn

[@Momofamlly]

What does an extension office traditionally do? Are they apart of the coop?

[@xeroxene]

Mate I feel for you. I had a similar thing done to me. I'd lie awake at night thinking about what I should do. Don't make any decisions or agree to any resolutions in a hurry. All the best from Australia.

[@ldg2655]

That's what we call Johnson grass. Even if you have what you call switch grass, that still doesn't take away from the fact that your alfalfa and other planted grasses are killed.. They need to replace the entire field.

[@harrythehermit3685]

I am no expert, but was taught the white vein was a sure sign of Johnson Grass.

[@ldg2655]

Baron Creek it is entirely possible that i've called it wrongly, but that's what i've called it..

[@albundy1956]

Plow it down...all of it, then harrow and when fall comes, let them reseed the field. God bless.

[@CrispyOkra]

I just ran into your video talking about how you bought land. Glad you're still at it 3 years later. 👍👍

[@CountryViewAcres]

Yeah we have done a lot in 3 years. Tore down 7 buildings, cleared overgrown land, built a log cabin, currently renovating an old barn and trying our best to make hay. While raising livestock and gardening and collecting firewood. I sometimes forget our achievements and focus too much on everything that needs done to make this place our perfect homestead. The list doesn't seem to get any shorter. I have a feeling we will be at it for several more years.

[@trrowland7849]

Best thing to do my opinion would be to wait until a decent rain fall let the rain soak away any chemical or herbicide issues and keep the field don't plough or start over just direct drill grass seeds again! The older grass will recover and the new drilling will fill your crop out more... Keep your field moist will give your grass a better start in life... And you will get a better root structure for your seedlings. You have a lake use the lakes water and invest in a sprayer and just use water! Keep life simple and just stay organic! No point in herbicides or fertiliser... You have all the resources you need around yourself! Chicken Manure in water give it a stir and there you go home made fert 👍 keep going mate don't let it get you down! Chin up Evan life as a farmer for you. Much love

[@ronsmith1364]

I go back to cooperative extension & having the local agent give a consultation. Fertilizer co. wants to sell its services & product. Having an agent represent you & not brought in with the company gives another viewpoint and current best practices for your area. The micro nutrients Mn,Zn, Cu, affect growth in subtle ways & nutrient uptake by the root system will only get what is there. pH is critical but, takes 6 months from application/discing to really affect the soil (the 'magic number' is 6.0 for most crops). Pelletized lime can be top dressed but, again takes time to produce results. One thing to keep in mind is a rhizome from a root extracts soil nutrients from a thumb sized volume of soil (~2.5cc). All plant roots are 'restricted' to that volume & about 4-6" in depth for growth, (mostly). First cutting of hay in a season is "not" the good stuff, I was surprised to learn this and another topic to ask a local agent about. Couple other things foraging the switch grass by a small herd of cattle (etc.) maybe another way of getting 'rid' of it. Temp fencing. rotational grazing to knock down the 'bad' spots & give the good 1/3 a chance to grow out. The links I sent earlier have a lot of this info & best practices for a good hay stand. Extension service is the free (I hope) way to get local knowledge & supports small farms like yours. Just ask. BOL

[@theburnhams2925]

Evan and Rebecca, Around here that "switchgrass" is commonly called "Johnsongrass." And mowing does not discourage it in the least. Since your hay field has already been herbicided, I would suggest a further application of Glyphosate to kill the unwanted varieties of grass. Don't let it drop seed! If allowed to re-seed itself, it'll be there long after you're gone.... Unfortunately there are no selective herbicides which will control the Johnsongrass without also affecting your desired grasses/alfalfa. I'd probably turn over everything before the Johnsongrass goes to seed (which will happen sooner than you expect..) and you'll have to do this at least twice. Deeply. In my opinion the company at fault should do or at least pay for this to be done. And I would retain legal counsel as this mistake of theirs will cost quite a bit to remedy and no matter how impressive their consultants are, they're working for the company, not you. An extension service agent isn't going to support you in court. Their salaries are paid by the state, whose representatives are elected by the chemical companies. I'm enjoying your videos and suffering along with you in your "trials and tribulations." Good luck and keep up the good work. BTW, your absence because of being at your "day job" is what allowed this mistake to be made. Again; retain legal counsel!

[@The22v10]

Yes, I agree Start over.. Plow it under and start again, why pay to cut it and try to half bake it back imo, Good luck and god bless.

[@drekfletch]

There are two separate 'debts.' There's the dead seeding, and there's the lost future bales. My suggestion is thus: Find out if they'll pay for a consultant of YOUR choosing to analyze how much hay you could have gotten, and how to deal with the switchgrass. Figure that consultant as part of the repayment of the dead seeding because you wouldn't have needed the consultant if they hadn't killed your seeding. Use your consultant's estimate of lost bales, and subtract from that an estimate the expense of their consultant and the soil test, and the amendments if you accept their offer.

[@TrehanCreekOutdoors]

Glad to find the update and see where things stand. What is fair, given the issues you now know about? 1) Start over and do things the right way this time! Test the soil first. Then amend the soil as directed by the soil test. You should have done that before you planted seed the first time. 2) Clear the field of all grass and weeds. Clearly you have more junk grass in that field than good hay grass. I'd suggest burning with prescribed fire. Use a licensed professional to do the burn. Get proper permits for the burn and buy burn insurance. This should be their cost as they cannot replant the field, nor can you, unless you get rid of everything that has now grown back after their spray mistake. Since you want a good result, don't just mow and plant into the left behind residue. You won't get as good a stand as clearing off the field. 3) Replant the entire field with new seed. The expense of the seed and the entire replanting operation should be on the one who ruined the field. You already had bought seed and planted it so its their duty to replant it. Item 1 above however should be on your nickle, not theirs. That's perfectly fair as you cannot expect them to provide soil amendments that you needed in the first place but didn't bother to apply. 4) Since you lost whatever chance to make a hay crop as a result of their actions, even a small crop, they should buy you a quantity of hay that you agree is fair, or pay you the cost of buying that hay. If you split it up this way, and they pay for the soil tests as a good will gesture, and they pay to clear the field and replant it correctly. You pay for buying and applying any soil amendments. Then each party has paid for what they should pay, as I see it. I think a judge would likely see it the same way.

[@Tomhohenadel]

Interesting video Evan. Hope you are fairly compensated for your ruined hay field.

[@gaylerobison9518]

Keep it mowed until time for discing and reseeding in the fall. That will deter switchgrass and other weeds going to seed in the meantime. Good luck.

[@nickmastroianni5557]

Although it is now two years later and I am wondering how this all got resolved, I too think you should mow it and then plow or disc it this fall regardless of whether or not they pay you for preparing the field. I wonder if they would consider paying you to replant it. That way, you can plant it as thick as you want with the seed you prefer and you will own the experience and feel the ownership as well. That is the way I would want to do it. And yes, they need to reimburse you for the lost bales which you will now need to buy.

[@hutchlinda9]

It sounds like they are trying to sell you amendments too. Get the advice of your extension agency. Good luck.

[@aceofheartz101]

So are you keeping your farmer ? I think your being stitched up and dealing with some inscrutable people and need to start again and chalk it up to experience , I think you know that truth yourself , lastly I watch your channel as you inspire me to stay true to myself a huge amount thank you

[@CountryViewAcres]

Yes, keeping the farmer. He helped finalize the agreement with people who sprayed the field And he replanted the hay field.

[@stevemartinez6757]

I admire you for going about things sensibly and honestly. I would probably opt to plow it and start over. Just off the top of my head I think that the company should pay for the amendments to the soil as well as the seed. I think it would be fair if you took care of plowing it and preparing the soil for planting. I also think that it would be fair for the company to compensate you for lost hay and your time. Good luck with it.

[@batpherlangkharkrang7976]

Hi..... Evan, thank you for sharing your video homestead 👋 bye 👋 bye 👋 bye 👋 🎥👍👍👍

[@stevehawkins8066]

Wow. I'm so sorry about your field. I think they should have to make you whole just as it was a good hay field since it was their mistake. Then let you disk up your field to start over. I pray that everything goes better with you and your family going forward. Thanks again for your videos. They are educational and informative for anyone who wants to learn more about farming.

[@conservativeprodigy2604]

I would definitely plow it all then have them re-seed it in the fall!

[@slats3517]

Have you considered the fact that if your grass had grown normally that it would have crowded out the switch-grass, as has happened around the periphery of the field? I would strongly suggest, as others here have done, that you call your local extension services office for their assistance.

[@Bass2010]

You should find a framer that can help you that you trust and have them look at it then you will know for sure if they are being honest and again so sorry cause we all seen how hard you work on that Field 😢👍

[@nancymweasel6561]

2 cuttings lost due to their negligence. And chemicals in the soil for who knows how long. j see no dilemma. They need to reimburse you for 2 cuttings of hay & reseed to continue to grow hay. Do not settle for less.

[@ericheise4051]

Evan hay farmer here shoot me a email if you want 35 years experience advise. Don’t listen to the you tube (experts) Fall Panicum Toxic Components Panicum species contain steroidal saponins. If large quantities of steroidal saponins are ingested by horses, it can lead to liver damage and secondary [e-mail]

[@arnoldromppai5395]

once a field been spray killed it must be plowed under or wait years before planting, as the herbicide is in the top layer of the soil for a long time, and new seed will not grow, but you need to do a spray again to totaly kill off everything, then plow it under, now, in Sept. add the amendments disk it and plant in Sept. and to me, that company is to pay for it as well as amendments, as herbicide kills soil and has to be amended after, but you need to to a soil sample after the total kill

[@markroeder2491]

Do not spray any more poison on your fields! Burn it and turn it. Do not use chemical fertilizers on it either! If you do, you will be caught up in the spray to kill, spray to grow, madness of "modern" farming. Burn it, plow it and reseed with a varied mix of warm weather and cool weather plants. Talk to your county extension office and let them know what you want. I would also think about stopping the outside farming on your land. Glufosinate, the active ingredient in Liberty and Roundup are known carcinogens and you don't want that accumulating on your land and even with limited run off...in your pond. Remember you live on that land. "Glyphosate in soil takes 140 days to break down to half its toxicity and will continue to be taken up by plants from the soil for 2 years and longer." I hope everything works out for you long term.

[@rt3box6tx74]

Nope! Depends on which herbicide.

[@mimicolvin3200]

Sorry for your hay field. Think positive and you will overcome.

[@JamesCouch777]

They sprayed the wrong field...my first question is who the heck would want to kill off their hay field? Sorry you ended up having to deal with this mess.

[@suenorton873]

Thanks for the update Evan. Hi to the wife :)

[@jamessellers5160]

The old saying goes, it's a good negotiation when both parties feel like they got screwed. Hopefully they make it right for you when the time comes.

[@beckyjohnson3153]

I'd be very leery about letting them dictate the 'terms' by telling you that your previous soil test wasn't 'accurate' and asking for a new one (from the land already polluted by their spray). It sounds like they brought out their 'consultant' to try to get you to believe they did you some kind of a favor by spraying your field because it was 'just' switch grass. The fact is, they sprayed undesirable chemicals on your land without your authorization, polluting your land for future growth and costing you the feed you were growing for your animals. If you were an organic farmer who had worked through the long, costly process to get organic certification on your land (which to my understanding requires no chemical fertilizers/herbicides/pesticides on your land for at least 5 years in most cases)...that would have been a massive, costly 5+ year setback. This was clearly their fault. If this was my field, I would demand remediation to get that unwanted chemical off your land, but on YOUR terms (you hire the person to do the work as you see fit, and they have to pay you back). At the very least, I would want all existing vegetation plowed up and removed from the land, as it would have absorbed the majority of the spray, but I would act quickly so that rains don't leach any of it further into the soil. After they have taken care of their end of things to your satisfaction (including lost feed), something you might consider to build up the health of your field for next year would be to bring in several loads of wood chip mulch (to a depth of a few inches on top of the remediated land). That would do amazing things for the fertility of that patch of land.

[@truethought369]

What a strange problem, where did your switch-grass come from, or was it carried on the wind? Anyway the soil samples, would it have been better if you took samples from around the edges and bag and label it, where you have grass, then take the centre soil samples, where there was no growth? That way, you may have found a problem in the centre, or was I right that the centre was too dry for your grasses to grow? Was the switch-grass on your field in a dormant state before you planted with the hay mix? Only trying to help, hope you find out what was wrong!

[@jrob8764]

I would want a cash settlement and redo it myself or hire the people I wanted to fix it. That was a major screw up and they should pay in full.

[@ericwalstrand3512]

It's funny while watching this, I have seen one advertisement for a law firm suing Monsanto for damages from Round Up, and another one for Round Up

[@lylesmith1949]

I wish I had some expertise to pass along, but alas, I don't. What I can say is dont sell yourself short! And definitely stay in contact with your local extension office. Take this opportunity to relearn everything you thought was right.

[@scottschaeffer8920]

Be unusual for switchgrass to be a part of this, it might be Fall Panicum-an annual grass very similar to switchgrass. You’re gonna have to do site prep-either way, if you really gonna get an alfalfa component.

[@CountryViewAcres]

It was fall panicum.

[@dennisputthoff4261]

Always think long term. This is most likely your namesake. Be fair even if you need to do a little more work and money - always think long term.

[@terrypomatto907]

I would at least disk the field before they reseed the field. A good hay field is not the easiest crop to raise, but in the end with annual maintenance plan you will succeed.

[@hxFubar]

If I was them, I'd want to make sure there was nothing that could be pointed at them in the future. The small cost to them to fix your field even in the area's you say aren't their fault could rep huge marketing benefits. Plus, they could then use you as a sales example of how to fix a field with multiple issues to push some of their products. "Yeah, we messed up his field but we are using it to show how to fix other issues like some of the grasses in it and proper fertilizing."

[@Sqeptick]

Hopefully this setback results in a higher quality hay field in five years compared to what you would've had otherwise.

[@vonmikeore]

Just a question from someone who knows nothing: When you started, it looked like a pretty clean field of corn stubble. Where did that amount of Pannicum/switchgrass come from throughout the entire field?

[@JamesCouch777]

That switchgrass looks exactly like johnson grass (which makes excellent hay if you cut it at the right stage) and if it is, plowing it will spread it...unless the spray kills the roots.

[@CountryViewAcres]

Does look like Johnson grass. It might be. I just dont want it in the field. I am hoping plowing a few times takes care if it.

[@JamesCouch777]

@@CountryViewAcres if it is like johnson grass plowing will only spread it as it grows from the root rhyzomes as well as the seeds.

[@CountryViewAcres]

I have had several people suggest that it looks like johnson grass. I the more I research It appears that it is. I am just finding out that plowing may make it spread. Too bad I plowed the field this last weekend. I hope plowing it a few more times takes care of it. I dont think I have too many choices at this point.

[@inglis7086]

I like it you can see something good from a not so good problem - I would turn the paddock over - keep it mowed as it will stop the weeds from getting out of control and you don't want the grasses you don't want in the paddock to go to seed and make bigger long term problem

[@jaredhatton1984]

Best bet is to turn it over and start over

[@ralphstrucking]

Hard decisions to plow or not to plow. Plow would give you a clean fresh start on new seedlings

[@Beecozz7]

So I'm assuming the switch grass is a native species to the plains state you live in, I also assume that it grew there when the buffalo roamed there and the prairie grasses were 12 feet tall, that maybe why it is dominating the domestic grasses you're trying to grow. Anyway, I hope by tilling in all that grass doesn't poison the soil and your future grass. Does herbicide go away???

[@CountryViewAcres]

The herbicide isn't supposed to have residual effects. So we should be able to replant without issues.

[@johnzink3309]

Thx

[@louisl.8724]

put up a fence between the fields

[@davidmurray5687]

Plough it.......start a fresh and put this down to an bad experience lest your field would be ready to go with a good quality field don’t let it get you down

[@Momofamlly]

Sir Evan. I am just curious, if you don’t mind, what is your occupation? Your smart, reserved, and diligent. Whatever you do I will hire you

[@CountryViewAcres]

I work industrial maintenance fixing automation equipment.

[@leroyjenkins8280]

I think Craig Manship should be consulted before any more work continues on this "hay field".

[@CountryViewAcres]

🤣

[@joconnor3567]

Don’t allow those renting your field(s) to be spraying chemicals without your prior approval. Personally, I wouldn’t permit any spraying; not with the time and money that you and your wife have invested in rehabbing the abandoned farm

[@ArthurValencia9438]

Maybe for additional information on how to amend soil, you may like to take a look at "The Science of grass...Learn something today...real world..real grass..no chemicals!" by Josh's KZbin channel "Stoney Ridge Farmer". He has some very good advice on building soil. Just thought it could help you. Art in CA

[@CountryViewAcres]

I saw he posted that video, but I haven't watched it yet.

[@PlanetMojo]

I'm currently learning about various prairie grasses and grassy weeds as I am restoring a oak savanna prairie in SW Wisconsin (I also have several horse pastures'). Are you sure that 'Switch grass' is not Johnson Grass?

[@CountryViewAcres]

It might be Johnson grass. Either way, I would prefer not to have it in the field.

[@PlanetMojo]

@@CountryViewAcres -- Around here Johnson grass considered a very noxious weed so, yea, I would get rid of it as well!

[@michael-ze2li]

Plow it under and disc it extremely well... have them pay for the seed and fertilizer.. call it even..

[@EC4400]

I hope at the end of the day you are satisfied.

[@merileacain1826]

its nice they tested the soil { so they can try to blame it on you with poor soil management?] did they test to see the pesticide load that they have put into the soil and how long it will take to clear up. You still cant use this field it is contaminated! not for animals or garden . They need to pay more than just reseeding they need to pay for the years of none use

[@omaimaali5969]

I think the switch grass took over when they killed your grass. So it is their fault that you have this switch grass problem. They need to plow and start all over again.

[@masterful7574]

“Probly” is not a word

[@hutchlinda9]

It looks like the seed washed down the hill. Maybe I'm not seeing the true lay of the land. When you reseed, disk across the hills or put down something to hold the seed in place. Get lots of opinions from other sources.

[@vinnypinatelli221]

So in this video did they spray something and kill it or was the germination just bad

[@jeffperry9274]

When they start telling you what you did wrong they don't intend to do you wright, you can believe that!!!! they will want to get out a cheap as possible.

[@blackwater4707]

It's a pity that you don't have even one harvest off that field to have a baseline. My feeling is that they are going to screw you over and have been successfully convincing you that the problems with the field are more than they really are. I hope I'm wrong.

[@johndour5207]

Why didnt the herbicide kill the switch grass?

[@CountryViewAcres]

The application wasnt strong enough to kill the well developed switch grass, but was enough to kill the shorter lesser developed grass.

[@pamstout]

Does Liberty have any long term issues?

[@CountryViewAcres]

No, liberty is not supposed to have residual efffects.

[@pjmaynes8747]

How reliable was the seed provider?

[@jeffperry9274]

Leave what you have and over seed it with all you put in the first place

[@jeffperry9274]

I dont see where the switch grass would be a problem I mean the Buffalo did well on it cows should as well.

[@lukemiller5529]

I would just make them pay for seed

[@Dassan_Isaac]

Thats not true. I disagree that the nice looking grass that you there are switch grass. They are just trying to calm you down.

[@fhagerber4079]

How is it that you don't know there are poeple working on your land??

[@CountryViewAcres]

My farmer rents 2 fields from me and I never know when they are going to work the fields. He went on vacation and paid a company to spray the beans. I must have been at work when it happened.

[@ArcherHHS]

So 2 weeks later what does the field look like?

[@528freq8]

Still is no longer organic

[@rt3box6tx74]

LOL, you fell into every trap you were warned about, emerged from your outrage into belief you have two new helpful teachers. You could have learned the same info by studying soil fertility/ hay production online. Why would you "meet in the middle" when you did nothing wrong? Bottom line: The "consultant" was the company owner's witness in case of a law suit. They convinced you that you're incompetent to be farming, btw they're good at that - even in business relationships with professional farmers. Two salesmen convinced you to pay them (for soil amendments) rather than get paid for their mistake. Don't forget, they've done this type of liability mitigation before. Are you aware that soil tests are usually free, to anyone buying the least amount of product. Since they killed off the two competing species planted you should at least request they kill the leftover Switchgrass. Killing that allows soil moisture to build before replanting (mowing won't) offering a better probability of good germination with new seed this fall. FYI: seeding straight into standing dead grass (no plowing) will keep seed from washing away if fall/winter moisture is extra heavy, plus provide a "nurse" crop to protect your emerging new crop throughout winter/spring. Grasses and Alfalfa prefer seeding into packed ground. Assures seed aren't placed too deep to germinate effectively. As I believe I mentioned in reply to your last video on this topic you need your own consultant. Crop consultants often have opposing opinions. Secondly, I'm sad that you've fallen prey to their professional tactics. Clearly they're now into stall tactics. Avoidance of discussion on paying for hay to replace what you lost proves that. Tell me how honest they are, how satisfied you are next year at this time, or two years in the future. Have you considered that the grass/alfalfa you planted would have strangled out the undesirable grass? Did they mention that in your discussions? What happens if you have a severe winter drought, or no rain next spring? You had a great crop underway, but there's no guarantee that the next one will have the same advantages. Mother Nature seldom blesses us on Second Chances. You're own experienced consultant would be aware of each of these factors and the value you lost from the mistake their employee made. Some of us have been exactly where you are, several times. We've also had the same concerns over honesty and fairness as you. No one wants to come across as unreasonable in business dealings. Most times owners of at fault companies, or their managers are friends of ours, since most farming business revolves around small rural communities. But when it comes to shelling out a fist full of greenbacks, they tend to get a bit adversarial toward the end of the transaction. In the end it comes down to the fact that our life long farming/business experience isn't transferable to you, even though we've been there, done that. One of my undeniable truths is that each of us must learn by our own experience because somehow we believe that we're the exception, that people with whom we enjoy interacting won't take advantage of our naivete. It's that ole School of Hard Knocks thing. Best Wishes...