Heat Pumps Are Boring! One Year After Installation

[@MrNilOrange]

Mr Geek, my heat pump (virtually identical to yours) will be installed first week in Feb by Octopus. I found your videos very informative and reassuring. Ignore the knockers - I don’t understand them either.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Thank you, and best of luck with your installation!

[@QuattroUK2011]

I made the decision to ignore the comments of people who don’t live with a heat pump day to day. I had a 4kw Daikin heat pump installed by Octopus back in August, I don’t have any solar or batteries. My expectation was it would cost around the same as running a gas boiler but in reality I’m saving around £30 a month. I’ve very please considering my install ended up costing nothing. Also the house is far more comfortable than it ever was with a gas boiler.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Good that it saves a bit of money. I think that the money-saving / pay-back rumour is damaging to the whole clean heating transition because whilst you and I are saving money, the reality is most people will not and it'll be more or less the same cost as gas was overall. That's why it's tricky to give a financial answer to people asking "why should I get a heat pump". The primary motivation is still one of getting away from fossil fuels and sadly the majority of the population just aren't interested or can't afford to be interested :(

[@MentalLentil-ev9jr]

Snap

[@MichaelJohnField]

I enjoyed this. We're essentially not to far away from you - as we're based in Cardiff. Octopus installed a 6Kw Daikin Heat Pump a few weeks ago. The team did a great install and you are quite right, if a Heat Pump or any other costly (or necessary item) is put into your home works well - it soon becomes (and should be) boring. Graham Hendra quite rightly says people don't go to the back of their fridge to get excited about that either, as long as the fridge works. It's so nice to have reliable temperature in the house again. Very much like the EV when it accelerates on the road - the efficiency is impressive (I don't know how much you have improved your SCOP as this does seem to be slightly 'trial and error'). Either way it's usually somewhere between 3 and 4 and that's better than 85%-90% efficiency of a gas boiler. We have had a couple of minor problems though - one has been resolved (intermittent Daikin app connection). The other (more irritating one) is that the Heat Pump is taking power straight from the grid and ignoring our home battery storage. Excess solar from our PV is adding to heat in the hot water tank (MyEnergi Eddi) - so that's something - but I notice you didn't have any problems with the Heat Pump using power from your batteries. I'm intrigued on what the difference is in your set-up. Thanks for the videos either way, your channel is always straightforward and no BS.🙂

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Thank you! In terms of making sure my heat pump pulls from the batteries, I made sure Octopus took the power feed for the heat pump from a very specific point in my electrics. From what I have seen, they usually tap into the power before it reaches your consumer unit so if your battery is monitoring the grid after that point then it won't see the heat pump as load. Usually your battery uses a CT clamp to monitor the grid import and you need to make sure that clamp is physically located BEFORE the heat pump not after it. I also had intermittent connectivity issues but I fixed that by putting a wireless access point very close to it - the wireless adapter inside the Daikin MMI doesn't have much of an aerial so seems to struggle if the signal isn't perfect. A nearby access point has totally fixed that though.

[@MichaelJohnField]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks for the quick reply - much appreciated! Yes, the Octopus electricians that have spoken to us do reckon it's a CT Clamp problem, but the customer service team seem to be erring on the 'we won't touch it as we didn't install the solar' and I'm not sure if that's a bit of a cop-out🤭. The Daikin app may have been linked to a problem due to a new install / system update - our full monitor doesn't give all of the settings (this will be fixed in a couple of weeks as they are going to replace the unit). The original install team did stick a wireless access point next to the main terminal, but the follow-up electrician (who has been very supportive) has managed to establish the app connection properly until the new terminal is replaced (we are having new broadband connection next week so he said he do it after that is in place). The Octopus electricians and install team have all been helpful. Thanks for the help on the CT clamp. Unfortunately we stayed away for a few days (due to the cold) while the install was being done and only saw the electrics route / battery problem when the install was essentially finished. We are having Heatable install upgraded batteries in a few weeks and they will hopefully sort out the battery link. The Heatable installer had a quick look at our external electricity box and was scratching his head as to why the HP wasn't taking from the batteries already! It seems that we all need to know something about everything now - that might be expecting too much from even 'reasonably' technically informed public 🙂.. Thanks again for your fast and responsive responses. You did the same last time I left a comment and it's great to see such helpfulness👍🥇

[@bazcurtis178]

Mine was very exciting the other day. I happened to catch it defrosting. It was interesting to watch. Then back to boring

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

It is good when you catch a defrost, proper cloud of mist scenario!

[@michaelball68]

Great video. The messages about heat pumps are very simple and you’ve put them across well in this series. Any new technology seems to put certain people into a rage - I think it’s always been that way (think back to the 18th and 19th centuries). Fear of change.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Always reminds me of this Horrible Histories song: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eWjXgoaIh5V0pM0si=-9nJT4wbgpxSRmDC

[@michaelball68]

@ 😂 absolutely.

[@stevenbooth9128]

I have my Octopus install in a months time and am looking forward to it. I think the thing I am looking forward to the most is consistent heat and getting rid of gas completely. I'm getting a bigger radiator in the en suite and bigger water tank and it's costing me significantly less than replacing my 15 year old boiler which has started making funny noises in the last year!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I guess I was quite lucky with my boiler lasting over 20 years really. I know of so many that had to be replaced way before then.

[@MarkGaudie]

So my heat pump at 7p but it’s returning 3.6 SCOP it’s way cheaper than gas. I’m not even sure what gas prices are anymore round my area. The gas boiler was crap to be fair. Leaked every other year and had to have it repaired even though it wasn’t that old. It was covered under an insurance policy but still very inconvenient indeed. The house was getting cold then your blasting heat into the home to get it warm. Heat pumps are way better for me personally. Great work Mr Geek. 👍👍

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yup, I remember those days of checking to make sure the light on the boiler wasn't red every morning!

[@MarkGaudie]

Yes mine is super boring. I’ve not touched it for 2 years and it’s brilliant!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yaaaawn :)

[@MentalLentil-ev9jr]

This is the thing, the house just stays at a comfortable temperature, whatever is outside. You do have to check the temperature outside, or with a weather forecast, before going out, as you get no clue from the system itself - with gas, you would hear the boiler powering up and feel the heat coming off the radiators, plus there would be areas of hot and cold, now it's just pleasant.

[@UpsideDownFork]

We want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

With a bit of flamboyance of course…

[@markkunes9711]

see my post above

[@chrismgeary]

What did you use to produce the HA bar charts?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I just added the energy entity from the Shelly EM monitoring my heat pump as an individual device to the energy dashboard. Nothing special, all built in functionality

[@chrismgeary]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks!

[@chillax411]

Had my Octopus fitted 6kw Daikin unit since September. Has worked flawlessly and has been a champ throughout these cold spells. Only issue with my install is my Slimline cylinder keeps making loud popping sounds when it heats up or cools down. Scares the crap out of me cause it sounds like it might explode and I can't seem to get Octopus out here to look at it. 🙄

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Their aftercare teams are very busy but they should come and take a look at the very least under their 12 months workmanship warranty

[@MarkGaudie]

I’ve got a 7kW Vaillant and it’s been excellent and my home is 20-21 degrees all the time. Never even notice if it’s cold out until you get outside. With my 4kW of solar and 30kWh home battery it cost me very little to run the heat pump. Summer the solar heats the hot water. Winter the battery covers the cold frosty days and it’s all cheap rate of 7p at night while the battery recharges from the grid at that same 7p rate. So I never really pay more than 7p peak per kWh of energy to power the pump. We also have 2 EV’s and very cheap to run heap pump dryer. Which is great when your not able to use the clothing line in the garden.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yeah I got a heat pump tumble dryer in 2021 as a refurbished one to replace my regular condensing one. It made such a huge difference to drying costs!

[@ionlywanttrains]

Agree. Although you must have more battery capacity than me, the heat pump eats through my 13kWh's. I managed to walk outside in my tee-shirt the other day, only to realise it was 2C outside! I completely forgot it was cold outside...😂

[@waterloowar]

why not adding the battery cost into the calculation?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

It’s nothing to do with the heat pump. My batteries and solar are there to help me save money on my overall energy bills and I am tracking their payback separately (see my six monthly update videos, new one out next week). My heat pump is there to heat my home, not save me money

[@markkunes9711]

Mine hasn't been boring. Day one a pipe burst in my sons bedroom flooding it - perhaps pressure peak when removing air. My showers had very low flow. Octopus took months to sort this - I found the solution myself by reading the manual. The pressure relief valve is adjustable and they were frightened to adjust it and even replaced the whole assembly. Last week they did adjust it from previous 2 bar up to 4 bar (using my guage) - result - showers excellent again. Next day was walking by the tank when a pipe popped out of the excpansion vessel and showered me with water. Probably increased pressure had found a weak joint - I called them and they were here in less than an hour to fix it. The pump was very noisy when temperature low (80db spec 62dB)- they had taken out the transport bracket but not retorqued bolt. Now every thing is OK. So there were a few mistakes but Octopus clearly an ethical company and fixed everything in the end, after umpteen visits. I am sure these problems will be ironed out in future installs as they become more experiemnced.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

That is good to hear they fixed the issues in the end, I've heard of other installation companies essentially disowning the install afterwards.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I've just been to double check - I don't have any pressure release valves on my actual hot water pipes. The only pressure release valves I can see are on the heating circuit coming from the heat pump to run around the radiators or to heat the water tank. Neither of those would affect the pressure of the hot water in my taps/shower which is physically separate pipework. So I'm very curious because the expansion vessel is on the heat pump side, but your shower is on the hot water side and I can't understand how the pressure of one would affect the pressure of the other?

[@markkunes9711]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Sorry I should have said the pressure reduction valve not pressure relief valve. I am pretty sure the expansion vessel is connected to the hot water system - it is shown in the tank manual as part of the connection to the G3 kit. Are you thinking of the buffer tank which is to allow the ASHP to take water from this buffer rather than from the hot water tank, to stop it cooling the hot water?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

No, both the buffer and the expansion are on the same sealed heat pump water circuit, the expansion vessel design to deal with the fluctuations in pressure in that sealed system and the buffer to provide extra volume for defrost cycles. I don't have a pressure reduction valve on my cold feed or hot water tank output, it's just a straight flow in with a split off for re-pressuring the sealed system if I need to.

[@markkunes9711]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech I think we may be talking at cross purposes. There is an expansion tank in my outdoor unit but I am talking about the one that came supplied with the Daikin EKHWSU hot water tank, whose installation manual can be found on the web (I haven't managed to paste a link) and on page 9 it shows how this is connected to the tank including the location of the pressure reduction valve. Just saw this tank is part of the option kit, so you may not have this.

[@RenewableEnergySteve]

I’m not sure I would call having your heat pump serviced ‘an hour of excitement’ but your graphs for energy usage? Now that’s more like it 😋 very informative. A Heat Pump is something I’m very much looking into right now. Btw something you might want to also consider is gas boilers use electricity too when heating. My current one uses a whooping 160wh or there about when the heating is on. What a waste! If you can remove your gas meter that’s another saving of around £115

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Might be a gas meter update coming soon :)

[@Mister-Gee-9999]

Can I get a heat pump to run a warm air system? My system has a combi boiler running water to air heat exchanger and a fan blows the air through it.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

So it blows warm air down ducts into each room? Yes you can get warm air ducted heat pumps. They’re not that common but I have seen them mentioned - search for “ducted warm air heat pumps”

[@davidstewart1153]

I have a system in the US which does that. It has an outside unit and two pipes running inside, but carrying refrigerant, not water or glycol. They go to an "air handler", an air to air heat exchanger coil and a six speed fan. That blows air into the ducts. It can run the refrigerant backwards and provide air conditioning in the summer. The original BUS grant didn't cover them but may have changed. Except for that it's great and still boring.

[@sp1es]

When the electricity bill comes in you can justify the cost as it keeps the house nice and warm all of the time, the issue I had with gas was I was paying £150 in the coldest months but not really feeling the benefit, it always felt cold and draughty because of how the hot radiators made the convection currents in the rooms move (hope that makes sense)

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I'd never thought of the convection currents actually. I found with gas that it would get very hot then once the thermostat reached temperature it would cut out and cool down so there'd be a proper ping-pong of hot and cold whereas the heat pump modulates the temperature and it generally stays at the same temperature. I know modern condensing boilers can do that too, but for me it was a new experience!

[@sp1es]

My gas boiler could never modulate low enough because it was a 27kWh boiler and my heatloss is around 5.5kWh, I know it has to be pretty beefy for instant(ish) hot water but still 😂

[@larsp5109]

Do you use ESPAltherma in combination with Home Assistant? In NL we have “degree days” statistics being collected at various places in NL which makes it really easy to compare different years against one another when you have data for the various years using gas heating versus heating your home now with a HP.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yeah it's been suggested I look into degree days before but it's one of those things I never got around to! Would be good to compare against my last gas year so maybe that's a future video - I have all of the data, it's just time to collate it properly. And yes, I am using ESPAltherma for read-only data.

[@BrightFuture-e4g]

Geat video, very informative. I have an install scheduled early Mar. Have you reached a net zero cost for energy with your setup or are you close to this?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

No chance for net zero cost in our home! We're quite high users with us having an EV too. Our solar and batteries help massively but to be fully zero cost we would need a solar array 3x the size of what we have now I reckon at least. To give you a rough idea though, we still pay roughly the same per month in energy as we did back in 2021 before everything was installed, so we've basically managed to ride out the energy cost rises over the last few years as a consequence of having the solar and batteries installed.

[@BrightFuture-e4g]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks for clarity on this. I was thinking of situation excluding the EV so just electric position versus the old electric and gas costs. Imagine this would be closer to cost zero (with export covering some of the HP import)

[@PaulRansonArt]

I'd love to have a heat pump but sadly my property just isn't suitable. Even with lots of compromises the additional costs for getting a square peg into a round hole just didn't add up. I think new builds designed around heat pumps is the way to go. Sadly in my experience home builders are just not actively working towards these standards - despite what they say....

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Have you tried Heat Geek? They really love a challenge and have many videos on their channel about finding the perfect heat pump solution for any property. Worth a look, I'd be surprised if they came across a property that wasn't suitable!

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

Some are hoping that Air to Air (as used by @EVPuzzle and @TimAndKatsGreenWalk) will be approved for heating. You would still need a solution for hot water heating.

[@PaulRansonArt]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech yes those boys have made fitting heatpumps an art form! My challenge is living in a small bungalow with a small loft and an airing cupboard just big enough for a hot water tank and pair of socks. Octopus energy weren't keen on trying to shoehorn a hot water cylinder through a small hatch either. It would mean breaking the unit down at an extra cost. The low headroom would also mean the tank would barely be able to stand upright so more compromises. In the end the costs just ran away and the install would just not be worth all the effort. I think we would be better off spending the money on installing solar with batteries and electric radiant heating.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Octopus Energy are definitely not the correct installers for you - they do template-style installs, easy quick-wins based on a standard design which would be closest fit to your needs. Heat Geek do claim that they can do bespoke installs for the same sort of cost though. They have even started designing their own components for installs with restricted space. It would really be worth contacting them at least to see what they could offer without too much house-bashing. If it's too expensive after that, fair enough, but at least you'll know for sure.

[@aclemfc]

Hi, love watching your videos. I’ve been an octopus go customer for a while now but have been looking at the 5p Tomato Energy deal. Would love to know your thoughts.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Their prices are brilliant, that can’t be argued with, but they don’t have much of a track record yet in customer service. I know two people personally who have switched to them with no problems at all so far. However there are concerns raised by Elexon about Tomato not settling their transactions on time which does raise concerns about their potential cash flow or general business competence. www.elexon.co.uk/article/public-notification-of-tomato-energy-limiteds-lack-of-progress-against-its-efr-milestones/

[@andrewcunningham1]

I feel like having a snooze!

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I should release an extended version for members as a sleep aid

[@ionlywanttrains]

Completely agree, they are really boring. Now I've got one i don't even play with the temperature controls, much more boring than gas boilers and associated smart energy controls! I've had to throw my now useless Hive in the cupboard 😂

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Sell it! Might as well recoup some of the cost via eBay. I got quite a bit back by selling my old Honeywell components.

[@Deanus3110]

How does your data from the monitor system you installed compared to the data we get just from the Daikin app? Is there a way to see SCOP without something like you have? Your videos came at the best time during my install with octopus. I have a 3KW altherma for my 3 bedroom house, while not new and cavities blown is has been doing the job just fine, perhaps maybe higher demand than a larger unit and I never installed the plinth heater they wanted me to in the kitchen. Even last weekend was all good. The only non-boring thing is that I now have more baths as a result of the new system. Enjoy the coffee.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

More baths is always a good thing :) The data I get in Home Assistant is way more detailed than what I get in the app. All the app tells me is energy consumed, no heat energy data at all so no way to view the SCOP. The only way to estimate the SCOP is to go and look at the Daikin control screen, write down the energy used for a specific time period and then the heat energy generated for that same period and do the calculation manual.

[@chrisbike123]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks for the video! Does the energy consumption data you get from the app match the data you get from Home Assist? I am wondering if the rounding to the nearest 1kW from the app balances out over time?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

No, the ONECTA app tends to report energy consumption about 15% higher than the Shelly EM Pro does. I trust the Shelly more though.

[@chrisbike123]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Thanks - that's the kind of information I wanted. I agree that the external measure is likely to be more accurate. I've just got the Daiken app to go on for energy both in and out. My calculated COP for the last 4 months is 3.2 which is OK but would be 3.7 if the energy-in was actually 15% less. (But maybe the energy-out value is 15% less too!). Overall for my BG install, the house is warm and the bills are slightly less than last year (assuming the same tariff), so in line with a lot of others I think. And it has saved a tonne (literally) of CO2.

[@andyholmes999]

Hi, you should be getting a referral payment 🙂

[@andyholmes999]

Loving the ashp, still learning about it but my house is a nice 20c in all rooms and it's power use has not been high. Having got esp or Shelly in place but will do

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Wow thank you, I'm looking forward to that landing in my account :)

[@nicksimmons7234]

Comments quoting Skill Builder. Old man that’s gets his facts from the Daily Mail.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

He’s changed his tune in the last couple of years thanks to Heat Geek

[@nicksimmons7234]

@@SpeakToTheGeekTech Not really, just using heat geek for content. If he really cared he'd be pushing plumbers to get training.

[@ashotinthedark3182]

I had a bad out come at a hotel

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Huh?

[@soundslave]

I don't hate heatpumps. I just hate the UK construction trade. Backward and always using shortcuts. The best heatpumps are the ones built into the whole home design. Retrofitting existing shitty houses in expensive ways is why there is so much controversy. Heatpumps would be way more popular if builders put them in new builds now.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Yes it would be better if they were considered by the architect as part of the initial design phase. Proper plant areas could be allocated, proper outdoor positioning of the heat pump considered with physical noise reduction measures and so forth. But I saw some photos the other day of some new builds where the heat pumps were sticking out perpendicular to the houses in the back gardens, absolutely terrible bolt-ons! Retrofitting will be necessary for the majority of the UK's housing stock so there's no getting around that, we just need to get better at that retrofit process as a whole. Even since mine was installed a year ago I have seen advances in technology and techniques, especially from Heat Geek on their channel. Things are improving rapidly!

[@soundslave]

@SpeakToTheGeekTech another issue is the surge in cowboys hopping on a new thing and bringing down the reputation of heat pumps. Just like insulation. It's a good thing but executed badly. Trades for hire as a whole is infested by incompetence or downright fraud. I don't trust anyone with my money these days

[@DrTofutybeast]

If you're using air source only it a lot cheaper

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Mine is air source

[@YeOldeTraveller]

Boring is exactly what I want from home infrastructure.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Exactly!

[@Biggest-hz7ng]

I'm disappointed that you didn't promise more exciting videos for next week?

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Next week is even more dull - solar and battery stats update for 2024! Not just graphs, spread sheets!

[@_Dougaldog]

Do you mind if I asked what was involved during the service, did Octopus provide you with a service schedule of work that would be carried out. Clean evaporator, clean filters, check additive level etc ? I have exact same unit with a service due next month and will be asking installer same question next week when arranging.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Soooo... no I didn't get a checklist or anything but my service was done at the same time as they did some other work (replacing the tape on the external insulation which has peeled back) so it was a bit last minute to save them coming back out a few weeks later. I don't know what the normal official process is like as a consequence but he opened it up, cleaned filters outside and inside, lots of checking and stuff!

[@datoon83]

The most important part is you've used less energy to produce more heat for your home. Efficiency should be the drum people bang...

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I agree, it absolutely should be. But if I put a video out about efficiency and lower energy use then nobody will watch it, but if I push the money aspect then all of a sudden it gets far more views.

[@datoon83]

@SpeakToTheGeekTech that's fair enough. If gas was half the price of electricity people wouldn't install a gas boiler...

[@JOOI525]

What a lovely boring video about heat pumps 😂. Love a bit more boring info on how you operate it, pure W/D/C, thermostat W/D/C, modulation etc? Keep up the boring work 👍.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

Honestly, it's all set up more of less as Octopus left it. It's on a weather curve using a room temperature sensor. I'll make a note to do a video on how it's set up in the future...

[@JOOI525]

@SpeakToTheGeekTech Excellent, look forward to another informative boring heat pump video 😃.

[@NigeTheDove]

Boring unless they cause you hell. Mine is louder than a tractor that has never been oiled, it's less efficient than direct electric heaters at least half the time, it takes about 2 days to catch up to any cold spell and it costs a fortune to run. I hope everyone that gets one has a good experience, but some won't, some will find it's an absolute disaster. At least avoid the Ecodan models, especially the 290 please.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

That sounds like you have an unfortunate poor installation. It should never even in the worst case be less efficient than direct electric. Even the worst performing heat pump on heatpumpmonitor.org is getting 190% efficiency for hot water. There are too many cowboy installers out there giving heat pumps a bad name, but properly installed by a reputable company (such as Octopus or a Heat Geek approved installer) and customers should have a good experience.

[@NigeTheDove]

@SpeakToTheGeekTech £ 10 a day to keep a well insulated 2 bed semi at 17 degrees and annoy the hell out off next door and massive loss of sleep. Be careful what you get, where you put it and who fits it. Also, if it's suitable. I just don't want to be in my own home any more. Legal battles here we come - joy!

[@chriskeegan7520]

If a technology is good people will go out and buy it .The problem with heat pumps and electric cars is we are being forced into buying them with legislation changes

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

In both of those cases, EVs and heat pumps, the technology is totally sound. However people are averse to change and in many cases being fed misinformation about them. Legislation is unfortunately required in order to accelerate the take-up of those technologies because left alone whilst they will eventually replace fossil-fuelled alternatives, it would take too long for the transition to cleaner technology. Various industries would rather push out their existing products because it's profitable for them, so their hands need forcing. The legislation is more aimed at businesses than consumers, but of course it impacts consumers.

[@chriskeegan7520]

@SpeakToTheGeekTech I didn't say the technology was poor or inferior. People should have a choice and the better technology will take the lead .Unfortunately not everyone can afford solar panels and battery storage systems which all make EV vehicles and heat pump systems more plausible

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@chriskeegan7520 Market dominance is a factor and people are resistant to change. Especially when there is a lot of misinformation out there being spread by uninformed people. IE6 is my usual reference on comments on these, other browsers were better by a long shot, but IE6 far outstayed its welcome even with Microsoft themselves wanting to get people off of it.

[@techieboy333]

Yeah, I don't get the whole "when will it pay for itself" or "what's the RoI" comments that seems to be some kind of passive-aggressive argument used by the terminal doubters about anything they don't like these days. 😵‍💫 What's the return on those batteries compared to investing it in some dubious fund or other? What's the return on those solar panels? When will that EV pay for itself? What's the return on the ASHP? I dunno, I don't care. I had the money available and I spent it. What's the return on your combi bolier? What's the RoI on that 75" OLED you just bought or that top of the range coffee machine? What's the RoI on your long weekend in Dubai?Who cares. Do what you want and leave others to do what they want.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I almost totally agree :) With solar and batteries though, their primary purpose is to save you money by using free energy / time shifting your energy use, so it's nice to keep track of when they have covered their own costs so as you know the point at which they are giving you free energy! (this is where I plug my 3 year solar and battery update video next week :) )

[@gobshite99]

I was attacked by a heat pump back in the eighties. I'll never forgive or heat my home in this manner.

[@SpeakToTheGeekTech]

I bet it was wearing a shell suit too