This Heat Pump Controller Is CHANGING The Game!

In this weeks podcast, Karolis from Homely joins Adam to speak about the new Homely system and how it is upping the standard for third party heat pump controls!
Homely: www.homelyenergy.com/
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[@markcranmer92]

7 years of fitting heatpumps and I’m taking on so much from this

[@TC-V8]

Nice surname Mark - from Tom Cranmer 👌

[@gabprof]

This is such a great video, and so interesting to me as a user. Great explanations of an excellent product, and so helpful to have Adam representing installers. We have had Homely since the Spring (installed by Ken / YEYW). One thing: Adam says that users should have no need to interact with controls. The exception is hot water, the need for which can vary significantly day by day. Homely app tells me the indoor temperature (which I don't need to know as it is constant), but not the hot water temperature - I would like to know whether we have enough for x number showers / baths, and whether to operate the HW boost function on the app.

[@SuperScubaTim]

Another great one. The concept of the heat pump running even whilst the house is cooling is a good one.

[@simoncanfer5030]

This is amazing stuff and confirms a lot of what I'm picking up as I get our Daikin optimised. (Our heat pump was installed less than a month ago). Radiator balancing in particular is crying out for some tech!

[@deshannon6402]

I've had Homely optimising Midea heat pump since late 2022. Ran the pump couple of weeks before controls activated and reckon Homely saves 20%. Amazing kit. It keeps the real temperature absolutely stable. House is 300 years old, listed and moderately insulated. Running costs less than previous gas. Comfort much better.

[@deshannon6402]

Thermal mass in our old house is the key. Pro tip for old solid houses: do the sums and then be brave and specify a lower rated pump than expected. Caveat: you must do your draft proofing! Also 18°c is comfortable with this style of slow less draughty heat.

[@AdamDitheridge]

Love this..! And very interested in the product. With updates, it should be a game-changer. Especially hooking it up to control solar too.....

[@nickieredshaw7835]

Sounds great idea!

[@johntisbury]

Interesting video and subject. Have followed Homely as they seem to have their finger on the pulse.

[@alanwhite1988]

A nice informative youtube guys... You have educated me on many new details about heating controls. We all know about the thermal storage of buildings, but you really seem to be able to quantify it, well done. We are looking forward to finding out more and checking out your App. It solidifies a lot of ideas that I am trying to implement on our properties. This year I have been working up measurement and control logic, using similar principles, to identify electricity usage in buildings. This will then, hopefully, enable us to make some big electricity savings (30% is our target). Currently, I am working on the logic, which we can then use to direct-teach AI systems. I wonder if our system should integrate with your heat pump and boiler systems, or leave them as separate systems for now. It's great to see so much clever work going in to try to stop our planet from frying. Keep up the good work guys. .

[@nervousfrog101]

Interesting I might have the sort of setup they are interested in. I'm on Octopus Go at the moment looking to move to Intelligent Octopus in Feb. A system that can control my Daikin HP, Victron Battery Storage and Zappi car charger and integrate with my solar and smart tariff is the holy grail of the future smart home.

[@pyroooanko]

Good stuff, perhaps worth a case study/video for persons swapping from all-electric storage heating to a heat pump / heat pump + homely to see the comparable results.

[@Kfiskplumbing]

Homely is a brilliant bit of kit. I fitted it on my system and now i spec it on all my installs.

[@HeatGeek]

It's really good. I think it has a little further to go though

[@HeatGeek]

It's really good. I think it has a little further to go though

[@Kfiskplumbing]

Completely agree. I've had numerous conversations with them about things to add. Hot water temp visible to end user would be one.

[@ernstmathijssen033]

Hi Guys, enjoyed the podcast, love the informatiom coming from both of you. Also enjoyed and learned a lot from previous HG videos on how to run my gasboiler more efficiently and trying to understand the heatpump for future transition. However, living in the Netherlands i wouldike to know if either HG or Homely have any plans to expand on to mainlaind EU or has this all been massivle complicated by Brexit and become a no-go (for now)?

[@ianithompson4239]

Be really interested in this if you can get it to work with Grant/Chofu, I have solar 5Kw of PV some Myenergi kit and about to install 15KwH of batteries and an intelligent AC inverter, After 12 months of tweaking the weather comp is still not perfect but way better than the install at default settings! Great video thanks for this.

[@normanboyes4983]

Enjoyed that. Not strictly ‘Homely’ but it was briefly mentioned during this marathon podcast - it would be neat if there was a radiator lockshield (with good authority) on the market that had a flow meter (rather of the type fitted to UFH manifolds. Or do they already exist already?

[@myatix1]

Very very cool! This is exactly what we need! I live in Denmark and have a huge issue with solar radiation due to the thermal mass of the 100% underfloor heating in a 10cm screed. As an IT architect and working with Machine Learning on a daily basis would love to try the homely solutions. Can I use the homely device outside the U.K. ?

[@AdrenalineWings]

Amazing

[@TimWigan]

The accuracy of the input solar prediction source is key.... My experience is I haven't found a source yet that is accurate enough to be hands off for my PV and battery set up. Interested to know what data source they use

[@johnosullivan7242]

Sounds really interesting - weather compensation + thermal mass + solar gain + electricity pricing - are you developing one which works in the Republic of Ireland?

[@ericvet8b]

Looking at getting ASHP installed in a few months and getting heat loss survey by one of the HG elite installers next month and this is really interesting. Got PV, 16kwh batteries, 2 EVs, Zappi, Eddi.. and this PV with Heat pump optimiser sounds good… Learning a lot but still so confusing, seems a bit scary…

[@HeatGeek]

You'll probably get a vailant anyway.. the hos that accept Homely don't touch vailant scops so ide advise just leaving them to it tbh

[@metalhead2550]

I'd be very interested in some follow up content on homely especially that "heat off" which you described... Adam vs. computer!

[@RobertSababady]

Watching and listening - totally fascinated. Good topic. One thing I don't quite get is if one moves from a fixed tariff to a off peak tariff, how the average saving works out for a 12 month period, as the savings occur during heating season, but for the rest of the year, you actuall pay more for per kWh compared with the annual fixed price tariff. Any thoughts @heatgeek?

[@andymacleod2365]

The heating period changes dramatically where you are in the country and the age of the occupants, if people are home all day? Some power suppliers let you swap tariffs over the year.

[@ryansoo4000]

Hello, I just discovered your channel. Can you do a video on the smallest equipment needed for an off grid cabin in a cold climate (zone 6B)? I don't want a wood stove because of indoor air pollution so I am considering a ductless mini-split, an ERV, a dehumidifier and a solar unit for DHW. If this topic interests you, could you recommend specific makes and models of equipment and whether systems can be combined to reduce costs? Thanks for your help!

[@LeiChat]

Hopefully the HP manufacturers learn from Homely and introduce some of the key functionality in to their own solutions. Does the Homely functionality degrade gracefully if there's a loss of (internet) connectivity? Dependencies on cloud services for weather forecasts, agile tariff schedules, etc. make me nervous.

[@laurieh]

After 1.5 years of changing my NIBES settings I think Ive acheived peak setting. Compressor seems to now run 3h and off 2h....1970s sieve insulation house. 21c normal (12-7pm), 18.5c setback

[@tlangdon12]

It sounds like you have arrived at a good setup for your home. Have you tried 18.5c as the normal setting? I've been surprised how comfortable 18c is when you have an extra layer on (long-johns + vest). We have a gas boiler and have reduced the setpoints of the TRVs and on the main thermostat this winter to give us circa 18c in the living rooms and 17c in the bedrooms, and it's been fine.

[@laurieh]

@@tlangdon12 I may try it but house is too draughty currently and has suspended timber floors with laminate and tiles...so feels colder than it is. I have realised the radiant heat makes A LOT of difference if rads are on more of the time even though cooler instead of blasting rads from 5pm when I get in to 7pm...then by 10pm house has cooled enough for bed.

[@gordonpullan8336]

I was very impressed with this video and having watched it went to the Homely website. I was encouraged to read that Homely is compatible with most heat pumps. However, looking further I note that in the FAQs the only listed compatible heat pumps are Midea and Samsung. I messaged Homely and to their credit they responded promptly. Regrettably, I have a Panasonic heat pump with rubbish controls and was disappointed to be advised "We don't support Panasonic heat pumps, and don't have any active plans to do so". Disappointing. However, I do agree with the underlying premise that good controls are fundamental to the efficient use of heat pumps, and many legacy, so called "smart" control systems will actively work against efficiency.

[@paulcooper8293]

Sorry, but I had this installed on a Samsung monoblock by evergreen energy and had no control over my own heating system, evergreen energy wanted me to control what temperature I had my own house. Basically it is a one heat system and does not allow the house to run at different comfort levels. The cost of installation was £450.00 which in my eyes was very expensive when you had no access to their system controls to do what you needed. Evergreen energy in my opinion need to up their game and train their engineers to work in the industry and have a decent quality control checking system, check out their installs in the last 12 months and you will have your eyes opened. Or come here and ill show you my install and see what you think. But on a better note, it's because of heat geeks that my system is now as good as I can get it, keep up the good work guys I've learned so much from you all👍

[@tlangdon12]

It's interesting that they have an Installer mode. I've agreed with Adam that a good controller shouldn't even need a user interface (other than to set the comfort levels and efficiency balance), but Evergreen Energy need to understand that the majority of their customers will be "Early Adopters" who are Pro-sumers to coin a phrase. Until they are brave enough to let me have the installer password, I won't buy it. If there are commercially sensitive settings that might reveal some of their intellectual property, then it's fair enough to restrict some access, but access to all the data that the device has is fundamental - at the end of the day, it's MY data!

[@samiseppala7538]

Would love to get something like Homely as our heat pump (Midea) did not come with an app but I have to manually tweak the temperature using the thermostat or the control panel in the plant room. So can't control house temperature remotely at all. Unfortunately our installer doesn't seem interested in exploring Homely nor have I heard back from Homely itself after contacting them on their website, so sadly this looks like another pipe dream :(. Would love to have more control over the heating just as I have with our solar PV batteries.

[@tlangdon12]

Adam's description of a TRV that allows some residual flow tickled me because Karolis explained in his previous sentence that if you set a TRV higher than you ideally want the room, you create exactly that situation. e.g. you have a bedroom you ideally want to be at 17C, but you set the TRV to 20C so that it doesn't start reducing the flow until the room is getting MUCH too warm. The flow does get throttled back eventually, but only when it is absolutely necessary for comfort. Given the predictive nature of the Homely system, the heat pump should already be operating at relatively low output, so the TRV is just acting to extra maximum efficiency. It's doing so in the same way as the Homely system works - it is trading comfort for efficiency. This is a great discussion!

[@HeatGeek]

Setting trvs as temperature limiters (set them above comfort temp) is something we've been pushing since before Homely was an idea. I was specifically referring to smart trvs, not using them as limiters

[@joewentworth7856]

Ewi vs interior insualtion and thermal mass. Surely the thermal mass on the outside is still useful as it moderates the sink temp of the insulation. Smoothing out the heat loss from the building? Perhaps not the same as internal mass but is still useful?

[@joewentworth7856]

@@zlmdragon. good point. I have heard of coating that claim to keep the wall dry and maintain better insulation. But not sure by how much.

[@gothan8336]

I wonder if it does load compensation and how it copes with extra heat from other appliances like oven or tumble dryer?

[@HeatGeek]

It does yes.

[@tlangdon12]

While I agree with Adam that a 'good' control system should not need a good user interface, but while heat pumps are so new (in the UK) and electricity so expensive, a good data interface so that the homeowner can see that the unit is operating efficiently would seem to be essential. Such an interface would allow the user to see the cost of space and water heating (as seperate data items) and also to see the effect of the optimisations.

[@normanpouch]

ASHP been about in the UK 50 years.

[@kevinnuttall7858]

I have just connected homely only to find out you have to find a installer to fit it but don’t have any one in the southeast. Also Dakin is not on there list just yet. Seems a very good product but poorly executed in its role out. I am very interested in getting this installed for the it works with the heat pump. I will keep in contact with them in the hope they get installers on board to fit the system.

[@robfee2065]

Which Heat Pump manufactures will this work with?

[@keirburgess]

Would Homely work with Toshiba Haori and would you recommend that brand of heat pump?

[@redshift3]

Does the intelligence of the Homely system reside in the local controller? How dependent is it on internet communication with external servers and therefore how vulnerable is it to internet outages?

[@tlangdon12]

It would seem to be vulnerable to internet outages it needs a weather forecast to anticipate the solar gan that will occur over the next 12 hours, but you would hope that it would have a default value that it could work with until connectivity is restored.

[@daveflynn8739]

Woo Hoo, first comment. Awesome work heat geeks

[@johnfreshwater3790]

Hi Adam I have a Samsung and was wondering why you dislike them. I run mine direct from the controller with no third party thermostat and get very good cop. I must say I have got a bit obsessed with the water law settings and have spent a long time adjusting them but now feel I do have them right. This thermostat looks great and I have contacted Homely but they haven't replied as I have a 200 year old house and do already use my house as a battery but have to do it manually. Great work by you and your colleagues

[@HeatGeek]

I don't like theor controller compared to good controllers. I'm sure the units are fine..

[@johnfreshwater3790]

@Heat Geek I suppose its also what you are used to and comfortable with.

[@paulcooper8293]

@HeatGeek I agree, I don't mind the Samsung heat pump, but I've found no way of controlling the heating or hot water temperature without going into the boiler room, samsung need to either get the controller online via an app or a cheaper remote radio controlled controller.

[@johnfreshwater3790]

@Paul Cooper hi Paul I have my controller in my hallway you can have it up to 50 metres away it's just a 2 core cable. I use the controller as the thermostat as well

[@johnfreshwater3790]

@Paul Cooper also there is a WiFi unit which I have fitted for a customer as they are blind so I can reset it remotely from my mobile. It only allows on off and temp adjustment of both heating and hot water. It is supposed to work with Alexa but I could only get it to switch on not off but that maybe my lack of knowledge of Alexa as I don't have it

[@handsofdoubt31]

Is that an IR panel behind you? I'd love to see what your opinion on the far infrared panels. I've installed one and it's working very well for me so far.

[@HeatGeek]

No. They're far too expensive to run and comparable carbon to a has boiler currently unless you self power

[@handsofdoubt31]

@@HeatGeek Interesting. For me it's a lot cheaper than a ceramic fan heater or the kerosene boiler. I think it's a valid solution in very specific scenarios.

[@HeatGeek]

@HandsOf Doubt valid in very specific niche situations for sure. Very niche

[@handsofdoubt31]

@@HeatGeek "Very niche" does describe my current situation unfortunately!

[@Swwils]

Where is honelys GPL compliance notification?

[@andrewbradley4261]

Interesting video - would be much better if we could see graphs. Could you please do an edit with graphs ?

[@lua-nya]

So unfortunate that it won't work with the oversized Atlantic heatpump my late Grandma was roped into having installed.

[@bobphillips2188]

Hi Guys. Here in the north west of Scotland, where we have weather on an epic scale!, anyone with external insulation will tell you the same thing; it doesn't work (here). Especially the houses built around 1980 buy various Councils, which have 75 mm studwork internally, hung with mineral wool and, naturally enough, dry-lined. The structural masonry-(filled)cavity-masonry walls only go one story, the upstairs being in the roof itself - a room-in-roof house as we say here - which is packed with mineral wool between the boarded rafters (all roofs here are boarded to make them 'solid', the winds we are exposed to often being more than enough to get through a conventional roof found eg in the south of England) and the plasterboard inner skin. So internal thermal mass isn't going to play that much of a part in the scheme of things. The housing around here that is still Council owned (Scotland quit selling publicly owned stock decades ago) was 'insulated' externally a few years ago, and all those tennants will tell you the same thing - it doesn't work with the internal insulation already there as part of the original construction. Their masonry mass gets little solar gain now while internally the same masonry gets little thermal gain from ANY heating source. My instinct suggests I add MORE INTERNAL insulation, not less, i.e., as it now is. I need 23 C all day - chronic fatigue and arthritis - and I have a setback temp of 21 C in the night. Vaillant arotherm (pre-plus), probably 11 kW or 15 kW, and if the latter, probably over-spec. Possibly older stock being used up through the Warm Works 100% grant that paid for its installation last summer. During temps of around freezing-to-5 or 6 C the best COP I can get is around 2. Even with flow temp of 35 C, which just about works. I bump the flow temp up to 40 or 45 C if the house gets too cold for me, i.e., the outside temp gets towards/below zero. I have 2 f---ing enormous rads/emitters in my living room (I asked for extra emitter surface area). I sometimes close the room door (the 'thermostat'/controller is at the bottom of the stairs - which is, kind of, the middle of the house - and rarely hits target temp without living room influence) so I can get a toasty living room without the system shutting off, if I want, and usually with 35 C flow temp. However, the best COP so far was in the autumn at 2.5, although the actual electricity consumption was very little. It now seems to me that, here at least and in this house, that an ASHP is MUCH more 'seasonal' than eg the solid fuel CH I had before, which chomped its way through almost as much fuel when outside temps were 10-15 C as when it was +/- zero. I have experimented with the heat curve number which seems to change itself; is it 'learning' on the job? If I set it at 6, some days later it might be nearer 7, esp. after a colder few days. With huge apologies for the sheer length of this comment! The devil seems to be in the detail, and there is SO much detail!! Any comments on this situation would be much appreciated.

[@HeatGeek]

Hi Bob.. perhaps I can help. What doesn't seem to be working? Weather compensation? I have not yet come across a situation where it doesn't work yet and we install nationally. If your curve is moving its on auto adapt. If you get too much internal gains you need to turn on room influence (which influences the weathercomp continually)

[@bobphillips2188]

@@HeatGeek Hi, and thanks for your comments. I’m confused about the difference, if any, between heat curve, and weather compensation. I set the heat curve to 0.6 the other day, and it is currently reading about 0.65. I have set maximum flow temperature of 38°, after experimenting everywhere between 35 and 45°. But as soon as the temperature is Somewhere Between 5 and 8 degrees the COP immediately rises to 2.5. If it stayed at 2.5 year round, I wouldn’t mind too much, as this is still a great deal cheaper than my old solid fuel heating. And my house is really very cosy. You have to remember that I dial in 23° for daytime, and 21 setback. I appreciate this is rather higher than most people would expect. I strongly suspect that the installers did not commission certain adjustables when they set the system up, and that I can’t access these variables on the controller? Thanks again, Bob.

[@HeatGeek]

@Bob Phillips room temp doesn't matter rhe curve accounts for that.. they're rge same thing

[@bobphillips2188]

@@HeatGeek Thanks sir!

[@robjones8950]

I’m a consumer with internal insulation and ASHP on order. Did you suggest that internal insulation was a bad thing because of reduced thermal mass?

[@tlangdon12]

Yes, it was suggested that installing internal insulation is a bad thing because it reduces the available thermal mass of the building. Internal insulation acts like a blanket both to keep warmth in the house, but also to stop warmth from coming into the house. No insulation is perfect, so eventually the heat from your heating system will move towards the outside of the house and heat up the walls. When you heating system is OFF, this heat cannot get back into the house as easily as it can without the internal insulation. This means that your house cannot be made quite as efficient by the Homely controller, but it will still be efficient enough to match the cost of a gas boiler. I would not cancel your order for your heat pump just because you have internal insulation. This will have been taken into account when the heat pump and heating system was sized. Your house still has some thermal mass due to the plasterboard. There is probably 200Kg of plaster in the plasterboard of every room with an external wall, and all the (solid) internal walls will also contribute to the thermal mass of your home.

[@robjones8950]

@@tlangdon12 thanks Tony. I opted for insulation in the 3 leakiest rooms to limit the heat pump spec to a single pump, rather than two. It reduced the heat loss by 2.5kw

[@andrewglasby6317]

Heat pump manufacturers need to open up there logic to enable 3rd party controls such as homely to work properly for time and use tariffs and weather comp. I believe theres only a few and kensa heatpumps being one of them with a opentherm pcd board ready to go allowing these sort of things to happen

[@HeatGeek]

Bad idea.. manufacturers own wc absolutely embarrasses 3rd party currently.. except homely

[@Crogookah]

A metal washer over theradiator pin valve can be used as a hard stop to prevent a TRV fully closing in theory... Needs somebody to experiment!

[@paulgoffin8054]

So, DIY installation yet? If it's just RS485 and a wifi connection.. ?

[@OraEtLabora0]

1:11:32 i'm glad that large telly was left unused as you stare at 15" screens and viewers are left out...

[@HeatGeek]

They were meant to be shared on screen!!

[@OraEtLabora0]

@@HeatGeek as an up&coming tubers, you will learn to always have plan B for tech. 😉 i.e. backup room-🎙, should the lapel ones fail...

[@mattsgreen]

Very interesting, thanks. I'm reviewing Infrared panels (Herschel and the like) for whole home heating. Would be interested to hear your view on those?

[@HeatGeek]

Too expensive to run

[@mattsgreen]

@@HeatGeek the manufacturers say otherwise - it's hard to properly analyse. When electric is the only option it's really that or a heat pump. The total cost of ownership over 10 years has them at pretty much the same cost. Somewhat dependant on the cost of electricity though...

[@HeatGeek]

@Matt Green the people selling it do say otherwise yes!

[@mattsgreen]

@@HeatGeek Ha - fair point. But it's not just them, there seems to be increasingly positive support for it, but not enough. Same thing goes for water heating - Mixergy/Sunamp etc.

[@HeatGeek]

@Matt Green heat pumps have an efficiency of 350%.. there for you only pay 28% of your electricity price per kwh of heat. Infra red can save about 10% of energy by zoning but that still makes it cost 3 x most than a heat pump. And 3 x more than gas. The heat is lost into the rest of the building. We have had tonnes of upset customers coming to us. I really don't understand how they have got away this long woth it.. it suits very niche scenarios.. like a building used for an hour each morning.. but that's all

[@_od_7825]

My big question is can this work with Home Assistant? If not can they make an integration to support it?

[@eggchaser]

+1

[@HeatGeek]

I'm wondering why you'd need to?

[@_od_7825]

@@HeatGeek monitoring and automation with other functions in the house.

[@ksim_]

no public API, no local API, no open standards support, the answer is no. When Evergreen Energy goes bust or decides to drop the support of the old version, the controller will stop working.

[@_od_7825]

At the moment the controls on my Midea heat pump are awful. I’d like a system that would allow me to tweak the settings and ensure it’s running as efficiently and effectively as possible. To me being able to link the heat pump to Home Assistant through the Modbus would be ideal. Give me the local control when needed and, in my case, just give me some coherent control. Ideally it would also be able to work locally should there be a loss of connection or if the company shut off the servers or do a Phillips Hue and stop supporting an older version for no particular reason.

[@mikepalmer4763]

Interesting but this needs editing, to clarify the various useful nuggets of info.

[@randomcamerajunk6977]

My new weather comp Jesus 🙏

[@tlangdon12]

I can confirm the thermal mass theory for Victorian houses. Our Victorian end-terrace has a pretty high heat demand at design temperature, but in the cold snap before Christmas when in was -5C outside, the house never went below 10C indoors, despite the heating going off at 8:30pm. We were heating from 6:30am to 8:30pm with the main roomstat set to 18C and the TRVs in the bedrooms set to around 17C.

[@TC-V8]

10C chilly!

[@tlangdon12]

@@TC-V8 Yes, but the only time we noticed it was when we got up early with our dogs. The dogs wake at 6:30am, and they are comfortable down to 10C (I researched this on T'internet). It takes the house about 3 hours to get back to 18C from 10C. With a thermals on under pyjamas it's fine. I had to start shedding layers as it approached 18C. It's funny how the body adapts to the new normal.

[@andymacleod2365]

They are going to have a very uphill battle as a huge amount of heating a house when there is no one in is a complete anathemata to them.

[@tlangdon12]

I agree that it will not be easy, but most consumers don't want to know how their heating system works, they just want it to be affordable to run, i.e. they want the home to be warm when they are in, and they don't care about any other time as long they can be reassured that it is not saving an appreciable amount of money. I think it will be seen as a generational thing where it's the old fogies who can't adapt to the idea of a heating system that never gets really 'hot', and the youngsters who take pride in having a home that is always at a comfortable temperature. We've been here before when "central heating" started to replace coal fires - the older generation complained that "it was nothing like a real fire".

[@pumpkinhead456]

@heatgeek Adam would you say Homely is as good as Vaillant senso controls? If so, I'd maybe consider other manufacturers for my forthcoming heat pump.

[@HeatGeek]

Currently, in combination with an arotherm plus, senso controls.are the best one the market.

[@HeatGeek]

Imo

[@pumpkinhead456]

@@HeatGeek cheers! I already have senso controls for my ecotec boiler and they work very well. I'll stick with Vaillant!

[@HeatGeek]

@pumpkinhead456 you won't go wrong. Unless you pick a bad installer ofcourse

[@chriscowap3159]

Ive literally been wanging on about this stuff for the last 15yrs.... I came at it from the gas boiler angle... Seeing poorly setup and designed 'traditional' controls. Now heat pumps and renewables

[@turi-geza]

Sadly it can only be installed by accredited installers. : (

[@charlespleydell6746]

Must have been 20+ adverts... absolutely ruined it

[@JanZamani]

03:48 'they're called quants?' 'my QUANTITATIVE, my math guy'

[@tlangdon12]

Probably short for Quantative Analysts.

[@AndrewHurst-mg9wl]

Sorry HeatGeek, You just can't say OpenTherm is unsuitable for heatpumps, it is 100% untrue. it does EXACTLY what the Modbus control he was describing does!!! If you don't want the control to raise the flow temperature then it is up to you to set the maximum flow temperature in the appliance lower, same as a Modbus control. Working and compatible OpenTherm and Modbus controls will both respect the appliance setting and ask for lower temperatures. I like that you are passionate about controls but please don't make these sweeping statements.

[@CrashUK28]

wife opens bedroom window at night. If it was 21c in the bed room she not be happy

[@HeatGeek]

Neither would I

[@ksim_]

Adam, OpenTherm is a protocol, you are complaining about implementation in some controls, nothing in OT says it needs to be "jumpy" in flow temps. Modbus/OT/EBus you just set the flow temp to whatever you want as often as you want, same thing just different messages. OT is the ONLY open standard we have, supporting it on heat pumps or boilers must be in the law to open markets for competition and have better quality products. The comment at 25:20 absolutely ruined the video as a misunderstanding of communication standards vs implemented logic in a device. It is like saying "USB" is bad because a few mouses I used to connect to it are "jumpy". the OT for heating and cooling should be mandatory as EOBD for cars.

[@tlangdon12]

I agree with the point you are making, but Adam is talking from experience of the current products that are badly implemented. You are right there is nothing to stop a manufacturer of an OpenTherm thermostat from improving the product to the point where it would work well with a heat pump.

[@hvacdesignsolutions]

Third Party.............no thanks!

[@HeatGeek]

Please explain

[@stevechambers8869]

All or nothing thinking? No thanks. Did you watch and actually listen?

[@tlangdon12]

Honeywell, Danfoss, Hive, Nest, etc. are all third-parties to your boiler manufacturer. When you look at the train wreck that Vaillant's controls are, you have to be thankful that third-party controls are a thing! There is an argument that you don't want to get stuck with a small third-party supplier who goes out of business, or one with a fragile infrastructure that is required for the system to operate. Evergreen Energy's strategy should be either to get as big as they can as quickly as they can (trading profits for sustainability of turnover) or to make themselves as attractive as they can to a large controls manufacturer who will buy them to get their IP. The customer wins either way.

[@paulcooper8293]

Look at the Samsung monoblock, it has no controls whatsoever and needs a third party controller to turn it on and off and set the temperature.

[@bobphillips2188]

Yes, Vaillant 'controls' are frankly a bit s--t. BUT - I have no problem diving into the controller, such as it is. It only takes a few moments to set flow temp, heat curve, set temps for day and night/setback etc. Even if I have not yet fully understood the available functions within the controller (I suspect the installers have made certain functions unavailable, as many people might do something silly otherwise), it is no biggy to spend a minute or two playing around. Third party intervention with yet more s--ding software might save a savvy user a percent or two on their lecky bill, but is not the rocket science some would make it out to be. Learn your system, try to understand what is needed, and sort it. Easy really. (Hence the expression, 'Easy when you know how'!)

[@catalincretu4989]

Yeaaaa, works only in England. Have tried to buy from an EU country, what is the point then?

[@TheDickPuller]

Skaterboy, you’re farting at thunder with your average Installer if you don’t explain Bus control systems to ‘the hard of thinking’. You’ve jumped to far ahead with this video. The knowledge you & the guy with the bad hair have, is too advanced & poorly presented. The audio is awful too!! You need a White Board & a pointer to explain things to the ‘Washer changers’ that attend your Mickey Mouse courses. Also, the guy with the hair needs a script, he waffles on aimlessly......FFS don’t tell to try working in Sales or Marketing 😂😂😂 But hey(now comes the undeserved compliment), you both know your Onions & thanks for sharing. Luv you Skater Boy❤

[@HeatGeek]

Thanks Washer. Looking forward to links to your stuff to see how it's done xxx 💋