Heavy vs Light Axes: Gransfors Bruk, Elwell, Ochsenkopf Review and Test

Chopping with the heaviest and largest axe I own, the Elwell 6 pound welsh pattern and comparing it to a 2 and a half pound Ochsenkopf Harzer axe
Also a second opinion/review on the Gransfors SFA

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

These trees are gorgeous. I would kill to have a forest like that! And I need one of those Oxeheads now. My god man every time I watch your videos I leave with a whole list of things to do lol

[@benscottwoodchopper]

You can have them, i hate cutting this dead dry fir, full of knots that stop the chips coming out. I think I might try reducing the grind on the ochsenkopf even further

[@SkillCult]

I'm a big un-fan of those in between sizes. People ask me about them all the time and that's what I always say lol. Short handles are dangerous and awkward. I like either a hatchet with a 16 inch handle that is light enough to easily use with one hand for extended times, and can be carried in the belt basically unnoticed, or skip everything in between and go up to at least 25 inches, preferably 27. The next size up of forest axe by gransfors is a reasonably efficient tool in good hands, but the hultafors equivalent, especially the husquvarna version is much cheaper and a tad longer. All of those extra light axes require quite a bit of skill to use well though. That Ochsenkapf is cutting beautifully.

[@BushcraftSisyphus]

Good advice for sure.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yeah i havent found a single occasion where the gransfors impressed me or felt right. Always either wishing i had a hatchet or a boys axe. The ochsenkopf was working so well we ended up both ended up prefering it. Its actually cutting pretty tough dead fir but making it look easy. Starting to think maybe a flatter grind is better in dead wood

[@brucesimmons6680]

Thanks for another great video on axe use in the real world.

[@svenschmalfu3093]

This one is good. Like that people outside of G. prefer also our style of craftmanship. And not only fixed on Swedish and American brands. First time i see a Ox Oberharzer at work.

[@richardsullivan1776]

I have the budget Cold Steel Trail Boss Axe with 26'' American Hickory handle. It has a Greenland or Rhineland pattern head. 6 1/2 inches in length and beard is 4 1/2 inches. I use it for splitting small rounds, making kindling, etc. For $30 American dollars, I very happy with its performance thus far. I've used it a lot in the four months, I've had it. Its made is Taiwan, not best steel but very durable and holds an edge pretty well.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

The trail boss seems to be a really good axe, you really dont need to take out a second morgage to get a good axe

[@nickburgess4259]

Totally agree on all points, as a big strong but older guy getting into axe usage at 50, I bought into the heavier and longer is better for felling and bucking, and hb boutique axes were the way to go (thanks utube) for everything else!!! How wrong was i... If I'd found yours and skillcult's vids earlier I could have saved £100's of hard earnt and numerous out of breath moments in the woods lol. head speed and efficiency of cut is the way forward, took me a while but got there..... I'm envious of the environment you demonstrate your axe work in and applaud your opinions based on your knowledge and proof testing....except those on double bits lol

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I had a similar start to you, as a beginner trying to use heavier 4lb axes, because that's a full sized axe right? eventually I learned lighter is better and now after cutting wood every Sunday and getting enough fitness and experience I can use a 4lb axe for more than five minutes! I don't hate double bits, nor think they are useless, just that they are a niche tool that increases danger with little in return

[@sushipaolo]

I agree with you, but I also think preferences are the most important part to use a tool correctly. I know a lot people, bigger and heavier than me, that prefer lighter tools (hammer, hatchets, axe, knife, etc) than mine. I think that is you are comfortable with your axe, and it feels right to you, the everything is fine. Obviously, bigger is not always better. Using the adequate equipment for the right task is also important. For reference, I prefer using 35 cm (14 inches) long hatchet with a 1 kg (2.2 pounds) head. Great video! Edit: I just received a new Hatchet whose head weighs 600 grams (1.3 pounds) and 34 cm (14 inches) and at first a wasn’t a fan of the weight, but I gotta say I’m falling in love with her ❤️

[@oxbowfarm5803]

It's interesting to watch this and hear your opinions. Several of these axe sizes/weights are in combinations I've never actually used before. I don't have anything as light as the Small Forest axe, even my hatchets are heavier than it is, despite generally having shorter handles. I only have two axes hung in the 2-2.5 pound range, and only one of them is in your ideal handle length range, and the other is longer at about 30". I do use my boy's axe to chop limbs off the stump using the one handed technique, but thats about all I ever use it for. Overwhelmingly my favorite axes are no lighter than 3 pounds and with 32" handles. I feel like I get a lot of work done with them very efficiently. It may be that Dudley Cook was on to something with his "efficient axe" concept, but I think a huge amount of it was American chauvinism. If you look at the axes that onsek uses, and the axes that swedish and other scandinavian timmerman are using doing historical reconstructions, most if not all of those axes violate Cook's rules, but they get insane quality of work done with high levels of efficiency. So I think it is very possible to overthink this stuff. I am glad you are overthinking it though. I just don't believe that the difference in efficiency I might get by switching from the heavy jersey's I prefer to something like your Ochsenkopf would ammount to much, and I think it is OK to use the axe that pleases you aesthetically. I love my garage sale find Jerseys and I honestly think the German patterns are some of the ugliest axes I've ever seen, which is totally subjective I know. One thing I do know for sure is that whatever the improvement in efficiency a shorter handle might give you, when you are bucking, a longer handle is safer, as it keeps the head further away from your legs and feet. I've noticed a lot lately how different our bucking styles are, and how different my bucking style is from Steven's. The only time I stand on a log is when I'm hewing. When bucking I am standing back behind the log and bucking at a much more downward angle.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I don't agree on Dudley Cook with a lot of the finer points but I do think the 2.5-3.5lb and between 28''-32'' handle and 4-5'' bit length is a good all round axe for most people. Its funny how there are a lot of different looking axes here in europe but most of them fall into this range. I don't think things such as balance and blade curvature is as important as Cook says. I think the american axe is good for chopping but lacks some of the more task specific features that are common on european axes. I actually kind of like how ugly the german axes look, and there are some benefits to their form. For people more used to the work 4lb-5lb can be effective but I find it overkill for the smaller trees and beginners struggle to control that weight, and similar applies to longer handles.

[@dennisobrien3618]

@ Oxbow Farm-I've watched all your axe videos, and am impressed by how well you wield your Jerseys and the results they produce. The more I watch, listen, and experiment, the more I think that individual preference counts for a lot, and is related to technique, physical build, and level of experience & fitness. There doesn't seem to be a one-size-fits-all rule (although there are definitely general rules that seem to apply across the board). I find it all fascinating, and can't get enough of everyone's videos on the subject.

[@mawuho1566]

Thanks for sharing. I like the Ochsenkopf steel too. In my opinion the axe have to fit your size and style of using it. I'm 186 cm tall and weigh 130 kg, for me a handle about 85 cm long and a had between 1250 and 1500 grams feels most comfortable for extended use. I use smaller axes like Swedish military axes for hiking trips as well because they are easier to carry. The diversity in preferred axes makes this whole axe theme interesting, it would be boring if we would all use the same tools. All the best from Germany, Maximilian.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Personal preference and the way you work of course is a big part. I am 193cm tall yet a 70cm handle fits perfectly under my arm. I used to use 90cm axes a lot more but my style of chopping changed. I think the maximum length someone can use is the same as the inside leg length, otherwise when chopping you will always hit the dirt, so for a shorter person 90cm will be very hard to use

[@bw25908]

Ben, have to agree with the Elwell’s. I hung a 6 on a 32” a few weeks ago and have been massively underwhelmed. I have one of the Elwell Slimlines (around 2lb) on a 26” and that is fantastic. Have you tried anything lower in the Elwell range? E.g. 4 or 3?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I had a elwell 3 i gave away as a gift, it was a good axe. My favourite english axes are the Brades/eagle edge 4.5lb heads

[@elemental4rce]

The 4.5lb Dayton type I have is brilliant. Superb steel and hung on a 32". Might even look into a 5lb. Also have a 4lb Welsh pattern which performs very well on green wood. It might be the only functional welsh pattern on the internet haha

[@sylvanstrength7520]

What would you use the large axe for? I know you mentioned felling, but I feel like I'd still prefer a smaller axe for even that

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Its really intended as a 'rounding axe' where the tree is made perfectly round by removing roots that would otherwise affect the felling direction. Also for cutting out the front notch. Its a very specialist tool and might be ideal for that style of work but it makes a poor general use axe. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmqeaWwm9ZllcU

[@reesestalion833]

It depends on the wood that you are cutting I cut a lot of dead red oak a light axe like a boys axe will only go through the sapwood them it doesn’t have the weight to cut the heartwood I use boys axes on softer wood or green wood

[@clarencerswann1360]

I have the Wetterlings #118, which is very similar in specs to the GBA Small Forest Axe.I find it only useful for specific light tasks, like making small kindling, bushcraft, and it makes a great lightweight pack axe for minimalist camping. When it comes to everyday axe work on average sized timber, a 1kg-1.2kg axe on a 65-70 cm handle seems to be a great balance of power to weight. One of my favorite axes is my restored 1 kg vintage Hults Bruk Wira pattern hung on an American 28" (71 cm) boys axe handle. You probably saw me using that axe to process an entire sassafras tree in one of my recent ACWC videos. I still think heavier axes have their place, but anything approaching 5lb seems excessive in terms of energy exerted versus work being done. Perhaps that is only my perception, but my heaviest axes are no more than 4.5 lb (2.05 kg). I have to say, though, that Elwell Welsh pattern sure is something to look at!

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I think 5lb is the heaviest axe a person can realistically use for work, and even then only the really strong guys. I noticed these welsh axes are very sought after in the US and people pay a lot to have one in their collection., i can see why, they make a tutahi look small. I think I will put it on a shorter handle and try it again in the future. I think the small forest axe is not really an all round do everything axe like some people claim but a hatchet with a bit more heft, it never feels quite right for fine tasks or heavy work. For a pack axe the rinaldi stuff is much superior, you can change the handle depending on the task

[@clarencerswann1360]

@@benscottwoodchopper For a pack axe, in terms of the Wetterlings I mentioned, they are quite different in edge geometry versus a Gransfors. They have much thicker cheeks and a convex grind that are well suited for limbing, felling or bucking small timber for firewood, and of course splitting for camp fires. The edge can be made thin enough for even carving tasks. I don't know much about Rinaldi stuff, but I have been looking at them. Not very fond of the "tomahawk" style handle, and I don't want to carry around extra handles when packing light. But again, I've never swung one. I have also been looking at the Finish Roseli axes as well for a camp axe. I had never heard of a Welsh pattern or Rounding axe until you posted one or shown it in a video. Perhaps my obsession hasn't achieved that echelon of enlightenment yet, but unique and specific purpose typed axes are one of my penchants, so who knows!

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

The Bahco 50cm handle with the 1 & 3/4lb head seems to be able to do more work and have abused the hell out of it but still comes up smiling now the grind has been improved and is great for hedge laying. Also that may be a possible use for the 6lber on certain styles of hedge or as a handy lever to bend the tree over. But for the moment its still more like a 6lb pain in the arse lol

[@benscottwoodchopper]

The 6lber might be handy on a shorter handle but I already have the tuatahi so its getting sold

[@petebeamish4730]

New subscriber ‼️ thanks great video 👍 I own several elwell no 7s and fair play you made a nice clean job of swinging through that piece but I bet it took everything you had to guide that elwell head like you said it almost wants to spin in your hand too long and cumbersome ! But how men used these all day every day it makes you wonder doesn’t it ? Great video thanks keep them coming 🌲💪👍

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I think the thing is men did not use them all day, but in bursts of 5 minutes or so for 'rounding' a tree. the saw does most of the work kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6SqdGedgKdoh6M

[@quintond.7888]

1: Is Welsh pattern interchangeable with Brades? 2: I'd agree on the small forest. I have one, it's a great kindling splitter and not much else. 3: Please pardon my asking, but where does your lady's accent come from? I can tell a difference between her inflections and yours.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yeah the welsh pattern is also made by brades. She is german but picked up a bit of a scottish accent

[@johnmutton799]

I love my 4.5lb elwell felling axe, a nice old gent bought it new about 1947, dropped it in a barrel of oil and forgot about it, in 2015 he saw me splitting logs and said " I've got a axe you might like but i think it will need a new handle" and laughed. He fetched it and still had green paint on it with the crows feet markings. The handle was a tad slippery! Got a nice handle and whT a axe. My freind gave me a 2.5lb elwell with crows foot marking, and had never been used from 1943. Broad axe head and it slices beautifully. I will never part with them. Yet.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

By crows foot ypu mean broad arrow markings right? Used by the mod to mark property from what I understand

[@johnmutton799]

@@benscottwoodchopper thats right, military issued axes.

[@redcanoe14]

I hear what you are saying about the Elwell 6 and with the long bit, long haft and short poll accurate cutting would be much more difficult. That said, I think your chopping stance perched high above the log was putting you at a disadvantage as you was leaning forward a lot and striving for balance, straightening your torso would allow you to open your ribcage up and balance far better. The biggest axe I swing and enjoy is a 4.5lb Elwell 'Dayton like' model that was my grandfather's axe. It would be interesting to see what that pattern of axe would be originally designed for, Michael Kearney may be onto something in his comments. The Ochsenkopf you have appears to be a good pattern for the work you do, I had a 2,5 lb new, Iltis Ochsenkopf and I did not like it at all (other than the fact is was extremely good steel) I did some edge work on it but it still stuck like crazy, the shaft was high quality Hickory but badly shaped. I might look further into the model of Ochsenkopf Axe you have, I would like to give it a workout. Have a great week Ben.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Bending the torso and using bodywieght to throw the axe is about the only way to get this axe head moving. True It was an awkward place to stand and chop but I wouldnt have any issue doing it with a lighter axe. You really have to try an axe of this size to understand the difficulty, Its basically a competition wieght head on a 20cm longer handle, which is not very conducive to balance as each swing pulls you forward and off the log. Origionally these axes were used for 'rounding' a tree whcih can be seen in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmqeaWwm9ZllcU . I was interested to try it out as a general purpose axe since that is what most people are interested in these tools for. Strange you did not like the ochsenkopf itlis, its much less sticky than axes of the same thinness due to the hollows behind the edge. The harzer pattern I use in this video if anything is more sticky than my iltis double. Maybe try it with a chisel grind, seems to make any axe stick less

[@jamesoleary4742]

I have the hultafors 2 3/4 lbs and love it...but want to try something heaver in the same brand either 3 1/2 or 4 lbs... What you reckon?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

3.5lb is my favourite but 4 may be good if you are fairly strong, not a huge difference in half a pound

[@jamesoleary4742]

Want this to be my last axe for awhile.. My thinking is the 2 3/4 probably do for limbing and lighter stuff and have the 4 lbs for the big stuff and even splitting. OK going to chance the 4 lbs probably won't be using much as the 2 3/4 lbs is great to be fair.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@jamesoleary4742 yeah 4lb sounds good, I pretty much do the same, always bring a light axe and a heavy one with me.

[@gutgut6857]

How long is the handle of the Elwell

[@tomjjackson21]

I love the asthetics of the Elwell. Wish they weren't approaching $200 here in the states.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

looking cool is the only thing i liked about it, sold mine now

[@k9road]

..I`ve read, when you hit it right, the sharp ones go easy through a steel toe cap...

[@elemental4rce]

i really enjoy that GBA for limbing but you do need to be accurate and watch what you're doing. Send me it and i'll do a video dual wielding them for the worlds fastest feathersticks

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Already tried that, can confirm 2 axes are not better than one kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6e0dIFjataXgs0

[@dennisobrien3618]

Isn't it sacreligious not to drool over the GB small forest axe? I don't own one, nor have I used any GB axes, but I hear SO many people rant & rave over them. Here in the U.S., I opted for the Council Woodcraft Pack Axe on a 24" handle, and haven't regretted the purchase. The axe that really surprised me at how well it performs is the Rinaldi Calabria heavy duty. I can imagine how well their American boy's axe would perform, as you mentioned in an earlier response. The problem is that I already own 10+ axes, and have a hard time justifying buying more, given that I don't need firewood, and only process trees that are problematic (storm damaged, dead, etc.). Still, your last video convinced me to order one of those Huasqvarna 2400 multipurpose axes.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yes there seems to be a religion based around worshiping the SFA and gransfors in general. I expect to be burned at the steak momentarily

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Only 10? Those are rooky numbers lol. Ive used them for a bit of hewing on a course and theyre alright but like you said theyre nothing special.

[@Sager-fs9bv]

That Elwell swings the way I thought it would CRAP. I always thought the heads are to long and heavy to have proper control during the swing. I have seen a 8 lb one believe it or not LOL.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yeah the only way I can describe using this axe is like trying to swing a sledgehammer while completely immersed in a lake of molasses. The 7 and 8lb ones will be even worse

[@jukeseyable]

@@benscottwoodchopper they do or definitely did exist. My dad when he was alive told me that as a boy, so late 1930s or early 1940s two fallers fell a big oak using 8lb felling axes. He carear as a forrester was influenced by seeing this

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@jukeseyable Not seen any come up on ebay but 6lb is plenty!

[@jukeseyable]

@@benscottwoodchopper some of my fellow countrymen were clearly cut from different stuff, that or nuts! My dad started out with axes until chainsaws took over, they heled on for some time though for limbing, as the first generation of chains used o break frequently. Despite been somewhat of a quadrapead, 4 lb was his tool of choice. I'm in the market for a new axe, you know the ochenkoph that you like, with a chisel grind, how do you think that would go in hardwoods, or is it fundamentally a soft wood optimised axe. You thoughts would be welcome. Loving the channel, such a lucky find. Keep up the good work chap

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@jukeseyable I would go for ochsenkopf iltis if you want a lighter axe or for something heavier hultafors 1.5kg chopping axe. both have worked fine in all woods

[@1südtiroltechnik]

I noticed you like heavy axes, Müller has just the right size for you; a Biber Axe with 3000 g....would just make the perfect Work Axe, you know, for the longer sessions... Omg, when i saw that thing in the 2012 Catalague i was impressed, or rather confused, who would use such a thing. The wierdest thing is that that massive thing is not in the 1966 or 1986 Catalogue, only in the 2012 catalogue. Because that makes sense.

[@grumpygrumpgrump136]

What species of tree are you cutting there?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Dead fall Fir, dry and full of knots, horrible wood to cut

[@grumpygrumpgrump136]

@@benscottwoodchopper I live in the deep southern part of the USA, and we don't have that species down here. It did seem to be some what of a tough not to crack. I really like your channel please keep the videos rolling. Be blessed my friend.

[@Among-the-trees]

Gransfors Small Forest axe isn't for this type of work. Its was said best when it was called a hatchet on a 19" handle. Its a great woodcraft axe, and the right size for a pack with other gear. Its the only axe you have there that I'd touch to craft with. Its the last one there I'd pick for felling and bucking them trees. Impressed with the Ochsenkopf seemed to be just right, I enjoy the dayton boys axe would be a great and fair comparison (not taking into price diff).

[@benscottwoodchopper]

I know the gransfors bruks isn't intended for bucking or felling, but today she was using if for limbing branches of no greater than 3 inches in diameter. If its not good for that what is it good for? for the extra weight and size of the Scandinavian axe you get far more power and is still usable in one hand. As for one handed use the Gransfors is okay but awkward, I much prefer a hatchet for carving. All in all I would take a hatchet and a saw or the larger axe. In one of my older videos I done a comparison of a lot of bushcraft sized axes and i listed the weights in the description kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaKklqSBds6jkMU

[@Among-the-trees]

@@benscottwoodchopper The issue comes when I need to take just one axe its a question of compromise, as with all things. Sometimes I find a hatchet just too short. I'm with you on the Scandinavian but I'm not always worrying about fire wood processing nor my main focus its moving away from this in between for me. I'm also a guest on other peoples land I ask for crafting wood or more a taker of small dead standing 3 or 4" pine which has no monetary value that I'm aware off.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@Among-the-trees I think for this sort of compromise axe the rinaldi american boys axe does a far better job, its a slighly heavier head and a little bit longer in the handle, very comfortable in 2 hands but light and just as comfortable as the SFA in one hand. however you can change the handles in a couple of seconds allowing you to put on a short carving handle and swap back to a felling handle as you go. Its a game changer and my Gransfors has no use except to look pretty.

[@Among-the-trees]

@@benscottwoodchopper I know off Rinaldi axes but don't own any nor know anyone who uses one. I'm not digging the fact there is no pole (my mistake there is one) on that axe/tomahawk? however looks fun. I may keep it in mind. Its each to their own, PS if you ever want to off load that pretty SFA at a bargain price I may be interested lol. At the end of the day the SFA fits into what I need an axe to do, it also slots into my armory of axes as the awkward child I need it to be.

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Amazed to see someone actuallly use one of those 6lbers instead of fawning over it and spending too much money on one lol

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Haha yeah, the lack of videos out there was the thing that got me to drag the big lump out into the woods. Its good for little more than a conversation piece for a collection. Might be usable of a shorter racing handle

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

Yeah I mainly use mine like a mattock or if im doing some digging in clay.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@ajaxtelamonian5134 might be worth selling and getting a pulaski or something

[@ajaxtelamonian5134]

@@benscottwoodchopper Yeah although its decent for Hedgelaying but other than that can think of another axe like a topping axe which is better and has a much shorter handle.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@ajaxtelamonian5134 I guess in confined space this head wieght on a shorter handle could be a really good tool

[@michaelkearney5562]

I think the elwell axe that you are using was designed for hedgelaying. If you go online and look up 'Harry (Heathfield) the Hedger, of Charing, Kent', you will find a picture that was taken in 1951, of this elderly gentleman. He is carrying an axe of the same design as in your demonstration, although the handle looks a little different. He was a hedge layer, and I suspect that this implement was widely used in this trade, before the advent of the chainsaw. The caption of the picture refers to a 'felling axe' which is clearly incorrect.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Its a Elwell Welsh pattern used for 'rounding' a tree before felling with a saw. I have also seen them referenced in a hedging book but they were the lighter 4 and 5 pound ones kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmqeaWwm9ZllcU

[@michaelkearney5562]

@@benscottwoodchopper Thanks for that. You learn something new everyday! P.S. They were all wearing caps and not a fat person in sight

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@michaelkearney5562 Yes, flat caps and boiler suits were what made Britain Great!

[@kevinfrost1579]

@@benscottwoodchopper Hi suggest it would be helpful to judge each axe by what it's primarily designed for and use the tool accordingly. That Elwell is designed as a felling axe to dip and fell a tree (unfamiliar with your description as 'Welsh'). Once on the ground a snedding (de-limbing axe) usually a 4lb Kentish pattern axe, with a broad cutting face of 5 to 6 " with flat wide shoulders (about 15/20 deg and 1- 1.5" set back) was used. All old style UK snedding axes have a rounded back to the socket. By comparison the felling axe has a steeper angle on the shoulders for chipping timber, rather than primarily slicing side limbs. Taking the legs off a tree, if needed, was part of the felling process, no task specific 'rounding axe' ever existed. As a master hedge layer who has competed at national level no axe, including that Elwell, has ever been specifically designed for hedge laying. Experienced hedge layers learn to customise axe heads, adjusting cutting characteristics and handle shape to suit. Everyone has their own preference but it all comes down to basic tool understanding - weight, balance, shoulder angle and profile and matching it to the material you usually work on, and surely that should be the key message of this video ?

[@benscottwoodchopper]

@@kevinfrost1579 I could judge every axe from what it is designed to do alone, but certain specialist axes like this have no niche these days. Therefore I prefer to review it on what it can do as far as chopping or splitting since peopel are interested in what these axes can do. I was not really focussing so much on this particular pattern in this video anyway, more on the idea that a heavy axe 'does more work' when in fact a lighter axe is more effective. That was the key message. I have only ever seen this pattern of axe described as welsh pattern, you can see them used in these 2 videos for rounding, or evening up the stump to allow lower felling. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXmqeaWwm9ZllcU , kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6SqdGedgKdoh6M

[@KevinsDisobedience]

That first axe looked like it bounced more than bite.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

it had a bit of bite but not worth lifting over double the weight. Just cant get the head speed, i ground it really thin so it's not that its blunt

[@Abbbb225]

Hi Ben, didn't see an option to PM you on your KZbin channel. I've been enjoying your videos. It's hard to find quality assessments on axes (and, to a lesser extent, on knives). Most videos are by weekend warriors or "bushcraft" or "survival" channels that primarily exist to review (and often sell) gear, rather than focus on teaching skills. Axe skills are even more niche, and videos by actual foresters or timber sports competitors are comparatively rare, especially concerning bushcraft axes (although now that I know they exist, I may look for more). Let me know if you already have videos on this topic, however I was hoping you could dive deeper into edge and blade geometry. I am curious to know the characteristics of a straight vs curved bit, the purpose of an extended toe or heel, of a shorter vs longer head, of a taller vs shorter edge, and of a convex vs hollow vs flat-grind (for primary grind, edge, and microbevel, if applicable, which I would like to hear you speak about ((though no axe edges or microbevels are hollow-ground, to my knowledge)). Also handling characteristics regarding centerline of blade (i.e. bearded or with high toe vs symmetrical head). I've heard you mention "chisel" grind a few times. It seems maybe you mean "flat" grind? In the knife community a chisel grind is one-sided (a more acute angle, and weaker edge, because only one side of the blade is sharpened, like an actual chisel). Is that what you meant for your axes as well? Would be nice to hear you speak as well about geometries for hard vs soft woods and green vs seasoned woods. Perhaps you can only speak to your environment (which seems to be Scotland), but I believe that resin in soft-woods (which may depend on the species and the season/temperature) can present unique challenges. Would be interesting to learn about the pertinent geometries for northern temperature forest (mixed deciduous, with lots of hardwoods) vs the pacific northwest of US and Canada (lots of large softwoods like redwoods and firs) vs Scandinavia, where many of the axe makers seems to have roots, which I believe is largely boreal forest (smaller softwoods) and possibly more deciduous species (e.g. birch) in the south. Part of this involves learning about the seasons wood is traditionally felled, bucked, hewn, or split (which will affect the sap content and softness of the wood, based on temperature and level of cure). Maybe a "scandinavian" forest axe is better suited to felling and limbing small to medium conifers than others? Even within soft-woods, though, different species have different characteristics (e.g. pine vs spruce), so we really have to look at the species a given pattern was designed for. One would hope, anyway, that there is some logic in how certain designs and their namesakes originate. Cheers!

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Thanks, glad you enjoy my videos. Straight vs curved bit doesnt make much difference imho. Essentially longer bits make limbing easier and overlapping cuts, but smaller edges bite a little deeper. 4-5" of edge is optimal though for a multipurpose axe. In timbersports chisel grind is basically a flat grind. Seasoned woods need a very thin axe to cut. Green hardwoods and softwoods cut differently with different axes depending on the species. You basically want the most bite, least stickyness and best removal of chips. Quite a lot of stuff you ask though is things i am still figururing out myself and want to wait till I have an absolute answer Cheers

[@Abbbb225]

@@benscottwoodchopper Thanks for your reply. I respect that you're continuing to search for answers. Please go on with your experiments, reviews, and historical research, and keep us informed. I suggest continuing to explore the natures of different grinds and geometries, including micro-bevels (speaking of which, do you mean the primary cutting edge? or a nearly invisible-to-the-naked-eye secondary cutting bevel, or edge apex, at a larger angle, that is achieved with just a few passes of a fine stone or strop (which is what it means in the knife world))?. By "taller or shorter edge" I was referring not to bit length (i.e. cutting length), although that is also an important metric I'm glad to learn about, but to the height of the grind, i.e. how many mm tall the edge is (generally a taller edge will penetrate more, possibly stick more, and possibly be more brittle, at least in theory, but I haven't played with it on axes). I'd love to see you grind the same axe to multiple edge angles, or the same angle with different heights (if possible, given the head design, which may mean progressively thinning out the shoulder behind the edge or otherwise doing some reshaping so the same angle bevel can extend further) to compare results, as well as play with putting a micro-bevel on or not in each instance. It will be interesting to compare the relative importance of microbevel vs bevel (cutting edge) vs thickness behind the bevel vs overall head design. Perhaps you could have many of the same functional but inexpensive axe to use as test mules for playing with grinds (3 in 15 degrees with varying edge heights, 3 in 20 degrees with varying edge heights, etc.) I'll donate an axe or two if you want to do that. By "shorter or longer head" I just meant the overall length of the blade ito of how far it protrudes beyond the haft. At this point I've seen some of your other videos that have least partially covered some of these subjects. I also think it would be great if you did a video or series covering traditional felling cycles (what time of year were trees felled, how long were they left to season, when were they bucked and limbed or hewn, etc.). For example, if wood was left to season before bucking (and I have heard that, in Scandinavia, hardwood branches were left on to help the wood cure before limbing, as the leaves helped transpire moisture out of the wood), then one could have an entirely different axe for felling and limbing/bucking, as the wood might be green in the first instance, and cured (or at least less green) in the second. I also don't know if wood was traditionally hewn (or even milled, in more modern times) when green or seasoned. Would like to learn how the process used to go, and if it varied by region and timber species. Thanks.

[@elemental4rce]

pretty sure, a 4lb welsh would out perform the 7lbers.

[@benscottwoodchopper]

Yes, it definitely will

[@tonymoon2022]

I guess Bruce Lee was right. Head speed is power , I mean speed is power.

[@drgnoe2664]

The scandinavian forest version is even worse. If your really use it for limbing etc. the handle takes so much damage right under the blade, in no time it looks like rubbish. So Gränsfors Axes, not a nice thing to offer :)

[@benscottwoodchopper]

well i would say the damage is due to missed hits, i have the hultafors version and the handle is pristine. Not my favourite limbing axe but It has far more power and comfort than the SFA

[@elemental4rce]

Dont miss then. Been using the hultafors version of the scandi for countless hours doing everything except splitting with it and never had any handle damage whatsoever

[@michaelconstantin2736]

You breathe like a martial artist or boxer when you strike....

[@benscottwoodchopper]

yes it helps a lot