Hegel's God

Robert M. Wallace discusses Hegel's view of God.

[@Mazurka1001]

…beautiful conversation to set one's morning mind in the right direction…could listen to it for hours...

[@zarathustrafoundation]

This is literally the best video on KZbin about Hegel

[@janhaemhouts1193]

The guy in the middle looks like Kierkegaard

[@imavileone7360]

Would make sense. Hegel philosophy is pure fascism

[@Firmus777]

@@imavileone7360 What do either Hegel or Kierkegaard have to do with fascism?

[@imavileone7360]

@@Firmus777 have you read fat fuck Hegel? It reads pure fascist authoritarianism. You're delusional if you think it reads in any other way.

[@galek75]

@@imavileone7360 Look we got a moron here.

[@mcrotty]

@@imavileone7360 Hegel really sounds like the opposite of Fascism, for example, Fascism demonstrates control, suppression, and oppressive conformity. Hegel's philosophy is directed at individuality and freedom itself. In the master-slave dialectic, the master is still in bondage. According to this Quora response, Hegel despised slavery in America. www.quora.com/What-would-Hegel-have-thought-of-American-styled-concepts-of-freedom Some Hegel reading: "Everything that from eternity has happened in heaven and earth, the life of God and all the deeds of time simply are the struggles for Spirit to know Itself, to find Itself, be real Itself, and finally unite itself to Itself, to find Itself, be for Itself, and finally unite itself to Itself; it is alienated and divided, but only so as to be able thus to find itself and return to Itself...As existing in an individual form, this liberation is called 'I'; as developed to its totality, it is free Spirit; as feeling, it is Love; and as enjoyment, it is Blessedness." "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom." "Public opinion contains all kinds of falsity and truth, but it takes a great man to find the truth in it. The great man of the age is the one who can put into words the will of his age, tell his age what its will is, and accomplish it. What he does is the heart and the essence of his age, he actualizes his age. The man who lacks sense enough to despise public opinion expressed in gossip will never do anything great."

[@nightoftheworld]

9:26 *Hegel real self-determination* “Hegel suggests that something that _makes_ itself what it is (rather than being made) deserves to be called fully real in a way that _things that are made simply by other things_ aren’t. _Fully real_ in the sense that what makes itself what it is *is itself* in a stronger sense than something that‘s simply the product of other things.”

[@salimhaddad6875]

Question is does anything really make "itself"

[@nightoftheworld]

@@salimhaddad6875 ya we are all products of processes occurring before us, of nature/culture/etc. but we are also endowed with the ability to intervene/negate. We (organic systems) are capable of adaptation, of altering our trajectories. Something which has the capacity to choose a path and exercises that deserves to be called more fully real, more involved in the “making of itself”, than something which either doesn’t have the capacity or doesn’t use it..

[@mikexhotmail]

@@nightoftheworld Do we truly... choose our path?

[@nightoftheworld]

@@mikexhotmail through will we can choose to alter the path we are on, to go a different way. I think the best way to change our future though is to reinterpret what was written in our past, to read old things with new lights.

[@mikexhotmail]

@@nightoftheworld Fair enough

[@LaureanoLuna]

'Dialectic is the relation between the finite and the infinite'. Interesting. Thanks.

[@kennyfernandez2866]

One of the best clear headed discussions on Hegel's metaphysics.

[@shawzaam]

This was excellent. At first I was holding my tongue just waiting... And then "God is the process of self determination"... Beautiful and succinct. I was introduced to Hegel's conception of God as, "history as the the process of realizing itself", and this explanation feels even more understandable. The distinction of immanence transcendence was fantastic too. Great work!

[@bluesky45299]

How would you prove robot has consciousness using empirical data. How do you prove to blind man what color red is using empirical data. In theory, robot can be programmed to move its hand when it touches hot surface. How do I know its having the experience of hot using test tube(Deduction/induction). The only thing i am certain of is that i have experience of hot. This experience can only come from entity that can already experience existence (Allah-one/indivisible/All-Loving/self-sufficient/unique/infinite perfection). If you cannot prove your own consciousness using “scientific method”, then how can you reject the existence of Perfect/infinite metaphysical being(Allah)? “Cogito ergo sum”( I think therefore I am) should be read as “cogito ergo est”(I think therefore Allah is)

[@couperin221]

To better understand Hegel's dialectics in relation to ancient philosophy, I'd recommend Plotinus: Ennead I. 3. "On Dialectic" (Armstrong translation).

[@counterstriving]

Excellent recommendation.

[@Brian-kr1pt]

Thank you

[@03335757975]

Nice and easy to understand.

[@hughpittenger6568]

Excellent discussion. Very informative, interesting, and helpful. At least for people with me who struggle to make sense of God and spirit.

[@Ash-so2sr]

Best explanation of hegel philosophy I have ever heard

[@TheExceptionalState]

This is a fantastic introduction to one side of Hegel. In reference to the ”stammering poets” 13:00. When am I more self-determining, less limited, infinite as opposed to immanent, more god-like than mortal? Possible answer: Those times when I am awake I am also aware of myself and my ability direct my actions and have memory. This is not normally the case when I am dreaming. However, in dreams I am not limited by time and space, so am less limited in this respect, whilst lacking the freedoms that being awake afford me. However, with the union of waking consciousness with dream consciousness my concept of self expands a thousand fold. This is one way of describing the “mystical experience” referenced here and I believe close to Hegel’s concept of God. A final note….. When Moses asked God his/her name, the answer was “I am the I am” (the meaning of JHWH). This scene is for me one of the ultimate poetical expressions of the nature of God …… although multiple readings of the Bhagavad Gita can also lead ones thinking to similar divine thoughts.

[@franciskm4144]

In terms of Hegel, it is the fusion of universal and particular 🙏 For Hegel man is infinite+ finite 🙏

[@MrDXRamirez]

Interesting and enlightening discussion. The comment section is the wrong tool, too static a device manager; a messenger board would be better. Talk instantly with people listening.

[@robotrip2206]

god is the entire universe as a hole god was perfect god was complete god changed so that's why we exist god became imperfect, divided the division is our gift our particular life division is our freedom from perfection sometimes we long to be together that is love love is the spirit of god

[@Doriesep6622]

+Robo Trip interesting. :) where can I read more?

[@rensoriginal379]

@Rollingklouds Life has existed from before we had our life on the planet. Life exists in different states throughout the galaxy, maybe environmental changes have made life on these planets difficult or no longer sustainable but for example, evidence has been found that water existed on Mars at a point. Where there is water, there is an inevitability of life. Although life has always existed, we do always die, and we are always reborn. Not you and I as individuals but as living things. As long as there is life in the universe, there is conscious thought and "God" has a personality. We can all be parts of that whole even with our divided imperfect selves. I'm an atheist by the way, so I am only acknowledging the credibility of the theory.

[@noaheinstein2369]

Anthony, isn’t this Spinoza? Although I don’t understand why the existence of life necessitates consciousness. I guess I’m trying to work through the “need” for a god-concept to possess personality. I can’t very well accept god as a personality unless you mean something different the personality of a being. Can you explain please?

[@m_tron99]

Only a robo-tripper could write poetry like this. Bravo amigo!

[@nightoftheworld]

@rollingklouds God is the entire universe as a whole (word/absolute/reason) God is eternal/infinite but ultimately not in full control, requiring our help to bring the spirit "alive"-a ghost of sorts that has always already existed before us as a chain of reason through time. I think some people view that _accretion of adaptations_ in the light of _survival_ while others witness in it the movement of a _divine_ thing.

[@rohanatrawalkar4858]

Chomsky's universal grammar is a good sign of the 'self determining' aspect of God Chomsky and his universal grammar try to tell you that language is intrinsically present in us with a code that we can't understand but do use. The self determination of language as a tool comes in children with an ability to use grammar and frame sentences in ways they are not familiar with.

[@BurlingtonUncleSam]

Robert M. Wallace is also one of the administrators of the Hegel Study Group on Facebook.

[@shakyaekanayake9504]

Thanks for uploading.

[@cianantonioburn]

the man tears it apart.

[@MIS32264]

Mr. Wallace, undoubtedly, Hegel's God is far removed from that of traditional Christian Theology, however, this concept of God who is Eminent & Transcendent at the same time is a fundamental part in tassawuf "Islamic mysticism." In the book, "Conclusive arguments by God," Shah Waliullah Muhadith Dehlwi discusses how to understand and wrap our minds around concept that God who is not limited.

[@lloplop]

"marx claims to treasure something he calls the dialectic which he thinks he got from hegel but im not sure why its important that he got it from hegel" I'm confused by these statements. something HE calls the dialectic? he THINKS he got from hegel? . but im not sure why its important that he got it from hegel" If Marx is responding to Hegel, isnt it important to understand hegel? isnt that why its important?

[@adamhbrennan]

GUCCI_SUSHI He’s basically saying “I’ve never bothered really trying to understand Marxism”

[@manlypedro75]

Hegel got it from Kant?

[@lloplop]

@@manlypedro75 its all from Plato

[@alejandromatos7860]

Marx bothered to read Hegel, but he didn't really get him.

[@christopheradrian944]

who has contoll of your destiny ? we all end up in the same predicament wanting peace unity love and being aware of are actions lead by exampel follow by choice

[@christopheradrian944]

stay aware never stop to asking questions but be careful in your affairs there is alot of trickery out there

[@starlightengramA]

I should say God's own intention, as an "eternal object" is actually what humans perceive as authentic objects as in the forms of ideas and res extensa.

[@TheExceptionalState]

Thank you! As an aside this was further explored by Rudolf Steiner in terms of the central role of thinking in becoming more real / self-determing (in the Hegelian sense)

[@spaceytracey1237]

Rudolf Steiner is the man!

[@TheExceptionalState]

@@spaceytracey1237 Thanks for reminding me about this great video. I had to watch it again after your comment. Result: 24 minutes of connecting with the "Real" :)

[@spaceytracey1237]

@@TheExceptionalState your very welcome. I'm actually giving it another watch too.

[@travisedwards8299]

Steiner is play school

[@jmgresham93]

God is the way the dominant conception of knowledge and ethics in a society is made to seem objective, unchanging, and sanctified through the reification of supreme principles (Marxism). God is the process of self-determination or the changing definitions of God throughout history (Hegel).

[@adamhbrennan]

Excellent conversation, have returned to it several times That said, he’s wrong about dialectics - in “Western philosophy,” it starts (as far as we know) with Heraclitus. And he’s coming off as a philosophical historian more than a philosopher when he finds it inauthentic or somehow intellectually corrupt to extract value from Hegel’s thinking without strictly adhering to Hegel’s beliefs. And while he’s an excellent explicator of Hegel, his lack of understanding of Heraclitus and Marx is troubling to me, suggests some myopia on his part... How can one in touch with reality fail to see how issues of class, power, alienation, and reification relate to self-determination, reason, and freedom...? I recommend Marcuse’s “Reason and Revolution”

[@adamhbrennan]

And the relationship between love and species being...

[@emmanueloluga9770]

Thank you for the recommendation. I'm new to this, I Hegel, his metaphysics, his theology anfmd faith, and his relation to Marx. Please any other worthy recommendations.

[@starlightengramA]

The fount of truth must foundationally originate in the absolute field of the complete repository of reality.

[@nightoftheworld]

19:07 "What might sound like a highly intellectual and perhaps in that sense _arid_ exercise-I mean Hegel obviously is using intellectual means to the max. What might sound like a purely intellectual exercise is in fact a very emotional exercise. It's just as much about love, it's just as much about the emotions as it is about the intellect. This may be news to many people... but there's a great line in the final section of Hegel's Logic where he describes what he calls _'the Concept,_ which is the intellectual structure of the world, of reality. The concept is _boundless love and bliss..._ so this is not often quoted by those who think that Hegel was dry and arid."

[@emmanueloluga9770]

Exactly this...this is why I made this my best quote of all time kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWqTdGWgj5JpirM

[@Anglican08]

Thanks for sharing.

[@megavide0]

20:21 "... He/She/It is a process of which we are necessary parts..." // A.N. Whitehead? "Process Theology"?

[@starlightengramA]

Debate. The finite cannot contain the infinite. However, containment would not appear as an immediate sharing.

[@jockt967]

Starlight Engram Is not a line, in potentially, an infinite series of points?

[@sfopera]

The idea that Darwin is an extension of much Western thought I'd preposterous. Darwin marks an immense break with Hegelian dialectic and theory of history.

[@starlightengramA]

Finite cannot be entirely excluded from The Infinitude.

[@lloplop]

but marx is responding specifically to the hegelian dialectic, not what you are calling this "general thing". Marx is talking Hegelian when he references the dialectic. Hegel's dialectic.

[@archepytus8596]

It's true.

[@miralupa8841]

Maxist dialectic is (at its best moments) extremely Hegelian. His conception of class struggle as immanent antagonism/blockade, or labour as appearing to itself as universal in capitalism .. just two examples.

[@nat-moody]

I agree, there are plenty of reasons why Marx is regularly associated with Hegel's thought. His claim to the contrary seems obviously wrong. Speculating, here, and I admit I might be stereotyping a little, but maybe he wanted to distance Hegel (and himself) from Marxism because of the general stigma surrounding it in US political discourse . Or maybe he disavows their theoretical symmetries because of some personal aversion to it idk, either way it was clearly nonsense

[@miracar1463]

Thank you.

[@celtman58]

Are there any studies that try to examine Cantor from a Hegelian perspective,particularly if infinity in Cantor is not limited to a ladder of alephss,transfinite cardinals?

[@thomasshirrefs5331]

This immanent and transcendent reality present everywhere and always at least resembles the concept of Brahman, no? I do wonder if it qualifies as non-duality...

[@arunjetli7909]

Yes he did read the upanishads were recently translated into German after they were translated into Persian by Dara Shikoh

[@hegel5816]

His philosophy more aligns with the orthodox Christianity....

[@garyottoschultz577]

I have an existentialist spirituality, The self is the essence of our existence because it is the only thing that can experience life. The essence that allows us to experience life is our spirituality. We create our own essence with our free will & total responsibility that comes from our free will unlike a pencil that is created by its essence because unless the essence of the pencil existed first (purpose) the pencil would not exist (Jean Paul Sarte),

[@dawnemile7499]

We have no personal control over our life as we can die at any time and we don't know if that is the end or there is anything more. There are lots of conjecture but no proof.

[@EduardoMartinez-fk2pv]

So spinoza is pantheist and Hegel is panentheist

[@Zayden.]

Here's what the marxist conclusion on Hegel's system of philosophy is: " It was suffering, in fact, from an internal and incurable contradiction. Upon the one hand, its essential proposition was the conception that human history is a process of evolution, which, by its very nature, cannot find its intellectual final term in the discovery of any so-called absolute truth. But, on the other hand, it laid claim to being the very essence of this absolute truth. A system of natural and historical knowledge, embracing everything, and final for all time, is a contradiction to the fundamental law of dialectic reasoning." - Engels

[@Ash-so2sr]

Perfectly put.

[@starlightengramA]

I dare say consciouness. is a field event and that humans have that in the grand unified field which is the expression of God's Own conscious ongoing intention.

[@m.jamespratt3691]

Love it

[@Tiocazutfarsa]

The infinite containing the finite is not a paradox.

[@arunjetli7909]

You understand that but the west is new to this thinking that is why infinity was considered as the devil by the west

[@zeitgeist2point087]

Do they mean God being infinite as in everywhere? There is a distinction between the infinite and everywhere.

[@Ash-so2sr]

I don't think so, otherwise he would have say omnipresent. I think infinite as in having no bounds of possibility, being both finite and infite, since God is conceived as being infinite he cannot just be the extend of things and space he msit also be everything and beyond everything. He must encompass all possibilities of. Being

[@bluesky45299]

How would you prove robot has consciousness using empirical data. How do you prove to blind man what color red is using empirical data. In theory, robot can be programmed to move its hand when it touches hot surface. How do I know its having the experience of hot using test tube(Deduction/induction). The only thing i am certain of is that i have experience of hot. This experience can only come from entity that can already experience existence (Allah-one/indivisible/All-Loving/self-sufficient/unique/infinite perfection). If you cannot prove your own consciousness using “scientific method”, then how can you reject the existence of Perfect/infinite metaphysical being(Allah)? “Cogito ergo sum”( I think therefore I am) should be read as “cogito ergo est”(I think therefore Allah is)

[@karutta21]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding - heavy stuff .. so basically there is this spirit (ideas) in human that when they interact they synthesize and therefore moves history forward and then starts again. What is the relationship between god and history please? Thank you

[@khalidnezami3660]

In a way God is the dialectical process of history.

[@hanskung3278]

Hegels thought is a "jungle."

[@jamesnorseman4863]

It might be Spinoza claimed that by nature being unpredictable)

[@Jitterskull]

What hegel said?

[@jujuandjesus]

Hegel is known for combining contradictions, this makes Hegel confusing from the start. He attempts to create a unifying truth from the aggregate teachings of past philosophers (pfft, I do that in my sleep XD ). In this way, Hegel is not only trying to build his own philosophy, but to also combine seemingly disparate ideas. Marx, to some degree, probably wanted to highlight to specific way in which Hegel used his dialectic method to do this and his desire to emulate it in his own way.

[@hanskung3278]

I wish there were more examples of these ideas. I'd get the book but I fear it will only muddy the waters.

[@froopzoop5739]

10:00 sounds a lot like shrodiners cat?

[@nightoftheworld]

11:50 Holy Spirit

[@user-bo1hj1rx3s]

Where in hegel’s works can i read about this topic?

[@gda295]

there is no place for hypothetical oppositions of finite, infinite or indefinite definites or inabsolute absolutes after Darwin. Self determination = participation in god? no.

[@dawnemile7499]

Darwin is crazy.

[@mangolassi_.]

I don't agree. Hegel's concept of "Realdialektik" is crucial for Marx's dialectic view of history.

[@Featheon]

That's incorrect. The term dialectic may be from Plato's day, but it did not mean anything like what Hegel meant by the term. Marx literally said he stood Hegel's logic on its head.

[@Ash-so2sr]

All philosophy is historical process, nothing comes from nothing, Dialectics for hegel and marx was the exact same dialectic logic the Greeks applied to reasoning, but hegel was the first to apply it to human history in th relam of opposition of ideas and then Marx applied it in a materialist context in the sense of opposite material (matter in some of its forms is nothing but movement and tension between forces such as the atom) and social forces (class struggle) but deep down hegel was the first to understand that all things have an inner rule for their development which is intrinsic, such as a seed having an internal. Development rule that will make it a fig tree for example, this application of dialectics to nature and man and history is what Marx takes form hegel and makes it even greater by seen how it is in fact the logic of development of matter and also living matter such as. Human being and the product of humans like human society. Which follows the Sam e logic of their creator.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Hegel was quite the thief!

[@killagramsmile]

"Darwinian evolution and other "well established scientific discoveries " 🤡

[@IPlayWithFire135]

This guy clearly doesn't know much about Marx.

[@homonovus9813]

Hegel is here just copying Aquinas. God is being God is not a being. Scholasticism should really get more appreciation.

[@zionistkid]

the dialectic is not an invention of Hegel's its a general thing from antiquity, so it's not important for Marx to claim he got it from Hegel.

[@TheRowanmoses]

This beats the concept of an old man with a grey beard who's pissed off all the time....Hegel refined Christianity which has a filthy corpse at the center of worship to a real great master of freedom!

[@marleneg8858]

+Rowan Moses Ashkenazi?

[@syourke3]

Hegel represents the last gasp of theology.

[@billybagbom]

Actually, Hegel represents the last gasp of philosophy in the classical sense: the quest for a unified field of knowledge. After Hegel, you had Kierkegaard and Nietzsche and then existentialism and the postmodern malaise where we are today. "Nobody" believes in a unity of knowledge anymore: an all-encompassing reality that includes both the phenomenal and transcendent realms. Since Hegel, philosophy (and the culture flowing from it) has offered us a bifurcated worldview: particulars of the natural arena are totally cut off from any contact with the universals that could assign real meaning and value to them. Hegel was trying desperately to hold these two realms together with his dialectical approach: thesis giving rise to antithesis resulting in synthesis. A noble attempt, but one doomed to shipwreck on the rocks of human finiteness and fallibility. His successors clung to the prevailing philosophical rationalism, even though it meant the sacrifice of rationality. But that's just my opinion. In all fairness, I should tell you that I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster, and I think Oswald shot President Kennedy.

[@syourke3]

billybagbom Well, maybe you are not as stupid as I thought - but Oswald probably did not kill Kennedy. Have you watched the video, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy"? There are a few questionable items in it, but it has interviews with many witnesses who were simply ignored by the Warren Commission - I believe that Johnson was involved in the assassination and the cover up and that Oswald was indeed a patsy - and that Ruby acted on orders from the mob. The Warren Commission was exposed as a fraud many years ago and even the U S Congress eventually concluded that there was more than a single gun man - but they did not expose the cover up and they still say that Oswald was one of the shooters, which is simply unsupported by the evidence. I am a lawyer and have practiced in the fields of criminal law and I can firmly convinced that Oswald was framed. Sorry

[@syourke3]

Steven Yourke As far as Hegel goes, I think he wrote in a style that was deliberately opaque in order to appear profound and - it worked for him! Of course, his apotheosis of the Prussian state did not hurt his career any, either.

[@billybagbom]

Steven Yourke Right. Like Josephus with the Romans, you tell The Man what he wants to hear.

[@billybagbom]

Steven Yourke Don't apologize. You're an educated man who has convictions. I don't say that your convictions are supported by the physical evidence, but I can respect the fact that you apparently don't restrict yourself to the physical evidence. There are other considerations. They just aren't that weighty to me.

[@leogorgone4414]

Buddhism with Christian lore

[@leekeater1527]

Rather a merge of different hindu schoold of thought from the 6th ~ 3th century BC, than out right buddhism.

[@ruhmuhaccer864]

@@leekeater1527 It is even antithetical to Buddhism, since Buddhism stresses the nonexistence of a subject. No subject, no self, no self determination, no Hegelian god.

[@leekeater1527]

@@ruhmuhaccer864 indeed you're right, but I've been rebutted often about the subject of the self by people who profess to a "real" buddhist lifestyle so I don't even know anymore. my citing the diamond sutra or any other 'text' only angers them.

[@ruhmuhaccer864]

@@leekeater1527 Not any school I know of? Who are those "real" Buddhists. To claim to follow the Buddha "really" is also quite curious. Who can claim monopoly of the path to enlightenment. One of the first things one is taught in any of the sampradāy is anatta. Again the soul is the conceived to be the subject, but no atman, no subject. There is no need to resort to a sutra, if such basic truths are not cherished. I do not see why they would not dismiss the eightfold path altogether. You should beware of people who disrespect the sangha and the tradition, very strange.

[@drmontague6475]

The God delusion .

[@StefanTheCannon]

Doctrine of Demons

[@StefanTheCannon]

Hegel is a diluted heathen who at his core is a humanist. That is not a compliment.

[@daviddawson1718]

Are you saying humanist are heathens!? Do your fuckin homework. On second thought, you couldn't understand it anyway. You need a job with your name on your shirt

[@XXTRIAGexx]

Way to misrepresent Marx. But I guess they're just fulfilling their liberal academic duty

[@garyottoschultz577]

God is what we define him to be, the God of Traditional Religion does not exist because he is defined in a way where he is intellectually dead (can't be proved to exist), the same as Mickey Mouse does not exist in objective reality, how can the person who asks questions in this video think that his God is the only definition of God that exists (heaven, hell, creation, etc) and that other people's beliefs & thoughts are shamed and discarded because they are not your religion, and don't deserve to use the word God to describe it. The Buddhist God is both finite & infinite for example and is other things and persons