"Helix Native DOES NOT Sound Like Helix Floor!" | YES, It Does! Here's How...

[@StratsRUs]

People forget how much work you put into each video.Thanks

[@frantech6935]

That outro music was just awesome! I wish you had a video from start to finish. This is my first visit to your channel.

[@ThePlanarchist]

Thanks Jason, all good advice well explained. I think I got to the same place when I first started using Helix Native by comparing the level from my various interfaces to what i got from the Helix and adjusting the gains on the inputs of some of those interfaces.....glad to have an explanation of it though! Cheers!

[@ShimiHalperin]

These videos are really great for getting us to think about the plugin having a virtual preamp, just like a tube amp.

[@KozmykJ]

Well done Jason for continuing to tackle this prickly problem. 👍 Another thing that these interface level setting discussions is bringing up are the wide differences between Preset Levels in the various modelling softwares. Even of Factory Presets alone, let alone 3rd Party offerings. I've spent quite some time comparing plugins and the variations are massive. Interface - Presonus Quantum 2632 Maximum Input Level +15 dBu Plugins compared - Helix Native Amplitube 5 Tonex Pro (inside Amplitube 5) Nembrini Amp Sims - various Presonus Ampire Taking just one plugin, Helix Native, as an example. Adding EDs +3.5dB works for some of the higher gain presets but for none of the clean tone presets without considerable post or o/p boosting. It's not just guitar pickup o/p strength, I'm finding that i/p gains required vary between 4dBu and 13dBu in order to get a satisfactory response. The quest for the ideal optimum input gain setting will persist I'm sure. For now I think I'll stick to using my ears and adjusting gains as necessary. Just like with real hardware gear. 😉

[@brentjeanneret]

I have read that impedance can make a significant difference (as it changes the actual impedance in the circuit), particularly noticeable for the fuzz fx. What happens within native wrt impedance? How are fuzzes affected in Native with this in mind? This is the main point I'm not clear on. Great video - I use native all the time for revamping what I've done with the floor by copying over the preset. Works great!

[@WoodyNWUK]

All that adding and subtracting didn't seem to follow any logical pattern. I could be tired though. So I have a Presonus 68c with a stated +15dBu (minimum gain) on the instrument inputs. The control knob is at -15 all the way left and 65 all the way right. Where do I put the line to get the right input level for Native?

[@Stewbert_72]

Great vid as always . Jason I bought a Boss Gigcaster as an interface and it says in website it’s -10dbu. But thrown by the minus number but guess they are describing headroom do I put -1db in helix native input ?

[@StratsRUs]

Yes

[@stefanovillani87]

Very good 🔝🔝🔝 Can I use a "gain" block at the first effect in the signal chain in each presets? Because the input level of Native return to 0db every time I close the DAW, even if I save the project with input level +1db

[@philipm33]

Man, I am more confused than ever between the last video and this one. the math is opposite of what I expect. I don’t know if we’re talking about + or - dbus. I just want my my Behringer UMC to sound right in helix native 😢

[@raynunez6027]

Per the helix native manual you just need to you just need to increase the input until your input signal is in the green area or at the line (it’s around the 12db mark) and you should be good to go.

[@questlive2338]

UA Apollo Solo example - I have to add 4 db to HZ input to match input into Helix Native when compared to using Helix HX as audio interface

[@JasonSadites]

That would not be the case if your Apollo Solo is working as the specs advertise and what my own measurements have found. You could test your HI-Z input by feeding it with a 0 dBu signal and seeing what it equals in dBfs. That would give you a conclusive answer.

[@galelongputt]

Could you just use your Helix floor as your audio interface and solve the problem?

[@JasonSadites]

@galelongputt absolutely but there are a lot of users who only have Helix Native and a different audio interface and do not own any HX hardware.

[@IvanEinstein]

@JasonSadites I actually would like to see how to get it to sound the same with my helix lt. Ive got close but the palm mutes are not equal as i use high gain metal with a horizon drive boost . Alternately ive also tried thru a ur22 mkii and same bad results missing its exact input on that chart everyone referenced. Also im considering getting a tonex one but no one is showing how to capture helix within its own routing.

[@c.g.vonhagenstein7576]

@@JasonSaditesThat's me. Native with a Focusrite 2i2 (2nd gen). All this input level talk that started a few months back helped me understand what was going on "under the hood" a lot better and has helped me solve a few longstanding issues. One example being getting my Petrucci sig. wah pedal to sound good in Native and other amp sims. Helix Native has very respectable and usable wah effects, but the Petrucci signature has a special flavor all its own that I like (although I bet with the right settings you could get one of Native's wah effexts really close to it). But anyhow, it sounded bad through amp sims for the longest. The issue (I think) was certain boosted frequencies making what I can best describe as "squawking" sounds, depending on how aggressively I played, and at certain points of the sweep. The solution, for me at least, was to throw an EQ pedal between the wah (after) and Focusrite interface (before) and tame the offending frequencies while also using the EQ to further shape the wah tone (just a little since I like the stock tone of the wah through physical amps). Now the wah sounds great through pretty much any amp sim I play through. Even the Neural DSP Petrucci Archetype, which has a version of Petrucci's wah built in (spoiler: the real wah sounds better imho than the one in Neural Archetype). So great info Jason for anyone that hasn't quite wrapped their head around all this yet. Cheers.

[@fedest]

Even if you do own a Helix or Stomp, being able to use the same patches through your interface and have them sound the same can be very convenient, for example if you record other instruments regularly and is bothersome to switch interfaces in your system, if you transport your Helix a lot and don’t want to have to disconnect and reconnect every time, if you’d rather leave the Helix at the rehearsal place but be able to practice and record at home, etc… Still a good idea to connect the helix at least once and record a DI to then reference against when adjusting levels for your interface.

[@raynunez6027]

Looking up the specs of my evo4 I’m curious if you plugged into the combo input which is stated to be 16dbu instead of the guitar input? Also, when I’m plugged into the guitar input I will sometimes get a high pitched ringing sound, do you have any advice on this?

[@JasonSadites]

Nope, plugged into the front Hi-Z Instrument Input.

[@galelongputt]

Though I suppose not everyone using Helix Native does not have Helix hardware? Thanks 🙏

[@IvanEinstein]

@Jasonsadites make a video showing how to get native to sound the same with helix hardware using helix as interface. Ive got close but the palm mutes are not equal with high metal gain. Alternately ive also tried thru a ur22 mkii and same bad results missing its exact input on that chart everyone referenced. Also im considering getting a tonex one but no one is showing how to capture helix within its own routing.

[@sevi3192]

Question, is it possible for me to use a Gain plugin instead of manually setting my audio interface’s instrument input gain? I wanna leave my Audient EVO 4’s instrument gain at minimum and insert a Gain plugin into the signal chain so that I don’t have to do any more fiddling with my setup.

[@sevi3192]

Also for more context: I use Helix Native live using my laptop. Every time I boot up my EVO 4, the gain settings always restart to the minimum (it doesn’t remember the previous positions I set it to, including the master volume). I want to leave my interface at the minimum setting so that I don’t waste so much time redoing the gain-staging before I go onstage.

[@JasonSadites]

You could most certainly do that or just simply add +6.5 dB to the Helix Native input slider with EVO 4 on minimum. The only downside is you may get slightly worse signal-to-noise ratio from your interface converters, which I am willing to bet you will hardly even notice. So, short answer is yes absolutely you can do that as long as you don't notice any noise issues that become a deal breaker :-)

[@DanStanley01]

I'm struggling with how to do this. I have a Tascam US - 2x2 (older version). The specs I found say +9.0 db maximum input (on min gain). So, I set that knob to the minimum level on the audio interface and lower the input on the Helix Native (through Reaper) by 2db (set it at -2.5 db)? I don't understand how +9.0 db -2.5db = 11.5 db. When I lower it, the input is so quiet - doesn't push any of the sounds. Sounds dark. Maybe I have other settings wrong, like buffer? IDK. Overall my Helix Native sounds much darker than my Helix Floor interface.

[@JasonSadites]

The specs I have found for the Tascam US 2x2 are stated in dBv which is different to dBu. You have to be careful to make sure you are reading the specs for the Hi-Z Instrument Input. The specs I read for max. input level on Instrument In are +10dBV (3.162Vrms). This would equate to approx. max input level of 12.2 dBu. So you would actually want to do one of two things (assuming those are the specs of your interface) you could leave your Instrument Input Gain at minimum and boost the Helix Native input control by approx. 1 dB or boost your interface level by 1dB and level Helix Native input at 0 dB. Hope that helps and let me know if that works out for you :-)

[@DanStanley01]

@@JasonSadites Ah! That was helpful, thank you so much. I didn't realize the dBV vs dBu. Also, I found my biggest culprit. Make sure your guitar input is plugged ALL THE WAY into the audio interface. With your suggested 1db boost in the Helix Native (which is much easier to control than adjusting the knob for me), it sounds identical. Now if I can just get the live monitoring lag to zero. It's super close but a little there. Thanks again for your help. You are doing great work and helping a lot of folks!

[@onlinescammer8291]

I'll leave a thumbs up on this video if he matches a patch that has fuzz. :)

[@fedest]

Thanks for the good information again! To me, going by the interface specs is the right approach when you only have the plugin to reference. But my approach having a hardware unit available (HX Stomp in my case) is to connect it as an interface and record a DI*, then record a DI from my audio interface (Scarlet), compare the two, and then add (or remove) gain to the interface signal to make it match the Helix DI (via software e.g. with a pre-plugins level adjustment or a volume plugin, or via hardware and re-recording to check again). A looper pedal comes very handy to send the exact same signal to the Helix and then to the interface for higher precision 👌 (*) it’s easy to also record another track at the same time with the processed signal (preferably a patch with a rather dynamic amp and no modulation), to then run the DI track through Native using the same patch, and be convinced that they sound exactly the same, Helix hardware isn’t doing anything funky with the levels, and that the DI track from the Helix hardware is the right reference to level against 🙂

[@NeZversSounds]

Just connect your HX device as interface, strum hard and look where you are peaking in your DAW. Switch to your regular interface and adjust input gain to match same peak DB. Why people go out of their way to waste energy and time instead of using their brain cells?

[@JasonSadites]

And for the MANY users who don't have HX hardware? What do you suggest for them?

[@VanjaSpirin]

Who uses Helix any more?

[@GrevDrake]

Interesting. Yet, you keep repeating yourself. This video could be 1.5 instead of 15 minutes.

[@JasonSadites]

I would highly encourage you to seek out the 1.5 minute video explaining this and watch that one and not watch this one. Glad I could be of assistance to you on this problem of yours that was bothering you so much. You are very welcome.