HELP! My Pastor Is Diluting the Truth

[@Hakeem597]

I did exactly that, actually went to one of the elders....I ended up leaving the church after that conversation. The Pastor was not teaching sound doctrine nor was he preaching the gospel. If your church is not preaching the gospel, you are NOT attending a church, you are attending a social club.

[@nickma71]

Which gospel (good news)?

[@hhh-et2vi]

@@Hakeem597 Just curious, what was the doctrine he was preaching that you disagree with most?

[@Hakeem597]

@@nickma71 the simple Testimony of Jesus Christ (The Gospel)

[@Hakeem597]

@@hhh-et2vi didn’t say he was preaching a particular doctrine, he was not teaching sound doctrine. No Gospel presentation. He preached an entire series on Elisha and Elijah and did not mention Jesus or the Gospel once and made reference to people needing to be like Elisha and Elisha was powerful. 1. How do you teach on Elijah and Elisha whose names mean “The Lord is God” and “The Lord is my Salvation”? How do you talk about Namaan and not mention Salvation and the cross? 2. He would do an altar call and tell people to “accept Jesus into your heart”…..this is unbiblical.

[@hhh-et2vi]

@@Hakeem597 I'm sure there are plenty of Christian's who love the altar call and think it's biblically sound. That's why it's all a personal preference.

[@HotSeat17]

“A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.” - Charles H. Spurgeon

[@SGOV86]

Indeed Frank. Days will come where people cannot endure sound doctrine.

[@grantbartley483]

To come? They're already here in the liberal church

[@ji8044]

@@grantbartley483 Jesus was VERY liberal, compared to you.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

THEYRE HERE, AWAKEN.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

@@ji8044 BOTIDIOT

[@mattslater2603]

Christian insanity caps....​@@fabbrofamily7038

[@gi169]

Thank you CrossExamined

[@beelikemizu604]

Great advice Frank! Our biblical relationship with Jesus is direct, nobody in between. If someone tries to get in between or lead you astray, push them to the side.

[@terraavis]

Frank says: "See if you can reel him back in. If not then you have to leave the church." But the Bible says: "But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."

[@mikebrines5708]

Except in today's American churches the pastor is the church on the same way Louis XIV was France. You'll be the one who receives church discipline.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

@@mikebrines5708 YES THIS HAPPENED. AND I WAS ONLY A 2 YEAR BELIEVER AND KNEW BETTER. I WOULD NEVER GO ALONE TO A PASTOR AGAIN. MOROVER, THE CHURCH IS NOT LIKELY TO TAKE SIDES AGAINST THEIR PASTOR.

[@sidwhiting665]

@@fabbrofamily7038 The church should, if it is Biblically founded, have a Board of Elders or some other appointed group who are scripturally sound that would accompany you and ensure the pastor is "reeled in" as Frank says, or if he refuses to repent, they would end his call and search for someone else. The key question here is did the church you went to have such a board or Elders or "check point" group whose job it is to care for and monitor the pastors? Many churches today are headed up by a pastor only with no godly men standing on the watch behind him. Do not attend such a church. That should be one of your first questions you asked when attending a new church: who is the governing body of Elders or lay-persons that ensure sound, Biblical teaching is proclaimed? If they don't have anyone, thank them for their time and GO ELSEWHERE.

[@edwardduering5776]

Scripture still gives us the best prescription- go one on one, then bring others, ... If your one-time experience didn't work out the way you wanted it to go, then just know that the pastor didn't listen and it's not you. Immediately follow that up with others to come with you so that the many of you will be strong if he didn't listen. Because you should treat others with the love that you want given to you! Remember, God (the Holy Spirit) is with you!

[@ohsosaucy]

Frank said just before the reel him back him “tell other people” which I suppose are the elders. You don’t just go straight to the church. I believe There’s a difference between 1-2 other people than the whole congregation knowing

[@unknownsamoan01]

"trying to make disciples" Perhaps one of the most vital messages from Jesus (Matt. 28:19-20), that Christians have forgotten today.

[@toomanyhobbies2011]

Went to a church for a few years with a great Bible preaching pastor. The board leader wanted his son to be the pastor, so he got the church to pay for his seminary education, then got a majority of the membership to vote out the pastor and installed his son as pastor. The son was so bad and arrogant, that I contacted the organization overseeing the church, but they did nothing. Needless to say, I and about 1/3 of the membership left that church, and the original pastor became a very successful prison Chaplain.

[@WesleyDarrellHarrison]

I love my pastor! :) Thanks for this! A good principle to apply to conversations with friends and peers!

[@PeterOldwood]

That happened to me. I was an elder in a small church. Then a new pastor came and I left the church as he was preaching false doctrine. But I found a sound, conservative church soon after.

[@sidwhiting665]

Curious, did anyone else on the Board of Elders step forward to correct the pastor? They are only humans too, and a biblically founded church should always have BoE or some other group of men keeping watch for these kinds of problems and offering counsel and correction if a pastor starts to stray onto his own agenda. If we just throw in the towel and leave... well, now there's a group of people being fed false doctrine. We owe our brothers and sisters at least a good-faith effort at correcting the problem before leaving. An Elder has that responsibility.

[@PeterOldwood]

@sidwhiting665 I did, but they overwhelmed me and another man. There were only 2 of us against the pastors and the board of elders and church. So we left.

[@TAdler-ex8px]

My church is going Calvinistic and it’s frustrating. It’s still the most doctrinally sound church in my community so leaving is not an option. It’s such a bad idea to align ourselves with men, no matter how good their theology sounds. Sharpen your mind and your faith through confronting the actual scriptures, all of them! I say confronting because we have to meditate on it ALL! Not selective parts that one man thinks are most important. All scripture is God breathed!!!

[@timothyyoung4463]

Amen.... We moved about 4 yrs ago, crazy difficult to find a Biblically based place to worship. The place we are at now is "reformed" and it's getting to the point where we are going to start going to a home church.

[@JesusSaviorJudge]

All the great Theologians throughout history from Augustine to Thomas Aquinas to Luther Calvin Jonathan Edwards were all Calvinistic. Why would you wanna lean that church?

[@TAdler-ex8px]

@ Well, I’m sure they are all perfectly fine men, but men all the same. However, give me Jesus through the Living Word. There’s enough there to glean from for a 1000 years and still never exhaust it.

[@TAdler-ex8px]

@ I don’t need the divisions that arise from the alignments behind specific words, or statements. That’s divisive and distorts the simplicity of the Gospel and the Apostle Paul warned us about that. I’m old enough to have lived through at least one Calvinistic revival and from what I witnessed it destroys churches. It influences men to become rigid, contentious, cold and fall away, or isolate. Learn from many but follow only Jesus.

[@bentheredonethat-lx6nh]

No 1 is required to go into a Building made with hands at all.

[@kelseyk175]

The best advice I got when I experienced this was to go in the meeting with that pastor, prepared. Know what you're gonna say and write down all the Scripture that supports why you believe the pastor is not teaching biblically, in a loving honorable way. Hopefully he will acknowledge your concerns, but if he refuses, then continue to pray to God if this means you should leave and whether to tell people or just leave quietly. Then leave it in God's hands.

[@ji8044]

Most Christians have never read the Bible. That's why they think Jesus was a Christian.

[@Servant-u9z]

@@ji8044 I think you’re lying. You said “most” say this. Can you back that up with more than anecdote?

[@Latham74]

There are some denominations that need this message.

[@ji8044]

Pretty funny, I ask Christians why Jesus chose 12 disciples and virtually none have any idea.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

@@ji8044 BOTIDIOT

[@hhh-et2vi]

​@@ji8044Christianity has a lot of symbolism, it also is extremely misogynistic. An example would be, how many of the disciples were women?

[@Servant-u9z]

@@hhh-et2vithat indicates patriarchy not misogyny.

[@hhh-et2vi]

@@Servant-u9z You can call it what you want, most religions are very misogynistic, just look up the definition.

[@BoldFollower]

I went to a nondenominational church that slowly became a cult, there was no one that I could talk to or get help from that they'd listen to because they had no authority structure outside a bunch of "yes-men" in an echo chamber. People hate on denominations, but now I understand the importance. If my now pastor at the church I attend currently were to go off the rails I have leadership above him I could ask to come audit the church and review and even kick him out if it were to get bad enough. Now, I don't think that would ever happen, but it is nice to know there is a structure in place within mainline den ominations to deal with that kind of thing.

[@ashlol1839]

Study to show thyself approved unto God…

[@lukewagner8871]

1 Timothy 4:9-11 KJVS This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. [10] For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. [11] These things command and teach. These things command and teach … But do they?

[@JiraiyaSama86]

I suppose we must remember that it is possible that when we speak up against such a pastor, we might receive some h8 directed by him. I was reminded recently that when you try to do a good deed or the right thing, you may get h8d. Well, I think we need to remember what Jesus endured when He shared the truth. We ought to be able to do the same and take the h8 that comes our way.

[@Servant-u9z]

Absolutely! We were promised persecution/resistance. That includes hateful words, sometimes from our brothers and sisters. If you’re not facing any persecution/resistance at all, you’re not walking the path of Christ.

[@mattslater2603]

@@JiraiyaSama86 Please show that Jesus actually said those things... and that they are true. Run away time for Shockwave....

[@JiraiyaSama86]

@@Servant-u9z True. And the guy who won't stop following me around right here might as well be proof. As you might already have noted, it's a waste of time with him. We can only pray for him.

[@mattslater2603]

@@JiraiyaSama86 ...yet I'm just asking you to show that what you're saying is actually factual. Instead of backing up your claims... you run away. That's on you, Shockwave. Oh and prayer does nothing. Sorry.

[@greatfilmmaker]

If my pastor did that, I would just leave

[@bethanndavis115]

What about the rest who are left behind who listen, like new believers?

[@mutantthegreat7963]

One difficulty I am finding now, especially with the rise of information transfer via the internet, Youtiube etc.. is actually getting a grasp on truthful doctrine. There are seemingly so many factions of Christianity at odds with one another, making it hard to *know* what the truth is.

[@Servant-u9z]

Don’t look at all the factions then. People are flawed. Look to Christ. He is flawless. Then work out from there.

[@Moist._Robot]

@@Servant-u9z That would work if the bible wasn’t a collection of conflicting stories about Christ that causes the division in the first place.

[@sidwhiting665]

@@Moist._Robot ah Moisty! Here you are once again. Dr. Turek can always count on your unhinged responses to help promote his videos in the algorithm. You are probably one of his Top 10 fan boys. How much free real estate does he have in your brain, that you constantly hop onto his stuff and troll so incessantly? I'm guessing at least 10,000 acres or so.... correct me if that number is too low.

[@ji8044]

Then become Jewish, like Jesus and all his disciples.

[@speedchaser4991]

Your right! One group of Christians believe they have an immortal soul, the other group of Christians does not, both can prove their right, in their own minds. “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” 1 Corinthians 1:10 “And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:” Matthew 12:25 How can Christianity stand if its divided? "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever: Therefore, the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So, he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:22-24 This is how we grow our faith, believe in the words God speaks to us.

[@yesayamichaelchandra648]

I'm convinced now thumbnail maker of this video is gen z. So sus 😂😂

[@29th.]

1961! You look 10 to 15 years younger Frank. I agree too that we must examine the belief in question and speak to our Pastor privately. Does it go against Salvation, does it go against the two Greatest Commandments, is it logical and pray for them.

[@mattslater2603]

So you're basically just a ball bag rider for Frank?

[@e.m.8094]

I find it interesting that people call the Bible hate speech, yet the Quran holds many of the same viewpoints on the topics and no one criticizes that. 🤷

[@Latham74]

It may have something to do with Christians not threatening to kill you if you criticize them.

[@The_Somewhere_Monarch]

That’s because Muslims make a lot of death threats and people don’t want to risk their lives just to make a criticism. They can get away with calling the Bible hate speech because they know Christians won’t get violent with them.

[@QseftJohn]

The Quran is also explicitly antisemitic.

[@kinggenius930]

Plenty of people criticize the Quran...

[@TheGuy..]

​@@kinggenius930 Go to Iran and do that.

[@TheOldBailey4135]

There are biblical ways to confront sin, if from a member or from a pastor. 1. Talk to the person. 2. Take 2-3 witnesses with you to talk with the person. 3 bring them before the elders. If all fails, leave that apostate church.

[@ggpt9641]

For the curious, Jesus declares this in Matthew 18.

[@VoVina111]

Like the hypergrace heresy, it's taking over more and more

[@fabbrofamily7038]

ALSO GOING ON WITH THE 30% OF THE BIBLE NOT BEING TAUGHT-ESCHATOLOGY- AND ANY ENDTIMES.

[@diautumn88]

AMEN!!!✝️❤️🙏👏👏👏

[@Charistoph]

The problem is, Who gets to define what is Biblical Orthodoxy?

[@chad9455]

The word of God.

[@Charistoph]

@@chad9455, true, but pastors aren't The Word of God. We won't have The Word of God returned to us until The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord and His feet light upon the Mount of Olives. Until then, we must rely on the arm of Man who are hopefully influenced by The Spirit. Those efforts have brought us The Bible, which was organized by the arm of Man and translated through the mind of Man. And what if a tradition was created to explain what The Bible means, but it is simply a tradition born by human philosophy instead of a prophet delivering God's word? We get the Pharisees, and the Nicenes.

[@mattr.1887]

The answer just depends on which Christian you ask.

[@Charistoph]

@@mattr.1887, and that's why there are thousands of denominations in the US today, with tens of thousands predicted to exist within the next decade. A house divided against itself in to chaos.

[@aorg9793]

How about a pastor who's sermons are so vague, his declarations so broad, his opinion on worldly trends so noncomittal, that one cannot even tell if he's being unBiblical.

[@thizz707gr]

Same thing

[@buddy_132]

He isn’t a very good teacher then. Probably just needs some pointers

[@fabbrofamily7038]

@@buddy_132 IVE LEARNED, FROM STUDYING ENTIMES THAT THE SEMINARIES HAVE NOT BEEN TEACHING THE WHOLE COUNSEL FOR 50 PLUS YEARS EITHER A CHURCH UNDERSTANDS ENDTIMES OR NOT. I HAVE HEARD OF YOUNG IGNORANT PASTOR BEING OKAY WITH SOMEONE TAKING CHARGE OF TEACHING IT THO.

[@Mavors1099]

Well, the Bible itself is vague and broad..

[@Servant-u9z]

@@Mavors1099only if you read it in a cursory, lazy manner. Exegesis of a collection of books written to a different culture (but preserved for us now), in a different part of world, separated by several millennia, takes time and effort.

[@F4Driver]

Seems to me most people believe in Churchianity instead of Christianity... believing that attending church makes them a follower of Christ.

[@SwornReaper]

Everything was political since the day that God created heaven. I mean, there was a war in heaven, was it not? Was that political enough already?! If you refuse to confront the moral issue, in a moral crisis, God does have a special place for you in the after…

[@mattslater2603]

@@SwornReaper Please show that a word you said here is true.

[@HarryFaber-z7l]

There are some very simple tests: If the church has a private jet, do not tithe. If the pastor has the most expensive car in the parking lot, leave. Is the church Christ centred? Who makes the coffee? Is it the congregation, or have they got a concession in the foyer? If the latter, leave.

[@Servant-u9z]

Very practical tests, brother.

[@brotherjames1623]

Well this is not a problem in the UK, private jet 😅

[@sidwhiting665]

We have members of the congregation serving coffee in the cafe' in our lobby, so should I partially leave since we're half way to rank apostacy? *grins If we look at the Biblical model of the church in Acts, the members often got together to share in fellowship. No doubt, they served some kind of refreshments. Nothing wrong with a nice cup of (good) coffee. Our Youth use it as a fundraiser for mission trips.

[@HarryFaber-z7l]

@@sidwhiting665 Quite so. What I was getting at was running a mile from those slick mega churches with concessions running the coffee stand, and a rock group destroying what passes for liturgical music. If the sound system cost more than the national GDP of a small country, maybe the building wasn't built for the worship of God. My nearest Church is built in the classical proportions, the first service I attended there, I assumed that the chorale had mikes. They didn't, the Church simply has wonderful accoustics. The most recent building work was around 200 years ago but the layout of the building was established in the 12th century.

[@sidwhiting665]

@@HarryFaber-z7l yeah, I was being a bit playful with my response. Hopefully, the "*grins" and silliness was apparent. I marvel at folks who diss on the "excesses" of megachurches (not saying you do) and yet fail to look at the multi-hundred-million dollar extravagant cathedrals as anything other than the same thing... just 200-500 years older versions. Those medieval megachurches were built largely to enhance the prestige of the local bishop or prince (if in Europe) or display the lavish wealth of an area business magnate (if in the USA). A $10 million choir chantry can be just as idolatrous as a $1 million production and light sound stage. But both can also be used to God's glory. I know you know this... just puttin' it out there for anyone else who drops by.

[@horseshoe804]

The thumbnail creator should be awarded with an oscar 💀

[@n9wff]

It depends on the size of the church and the "ministries" inside the building. The church my wife attends, the pastor is too busy to meet with the common peon, especially if you are not well-off financially. The pastor, years ago, posted something online on how to build a church that did not mention Christ. I responded that "if you lift Jesus up, He will draw all men to Him". He unfriended me in five minutes. He does not like to be confronted. He tells his congregation the KJV cannot be used, he mentions that everyone needs to be in agreement to his vision. And at my age, I will not "humble myself" and do ministry babysitting kids or making lattes. I'm too old for serving the church when I want to serve Christ. Sorry, churches have become modern spiritual corporations.

[@HarryFaber-z7l]

There are good reasons for not using the KJV, but I cannot think of a good reason for banning it. The pastor needs to be in agreement with Christ, and then, the congregation will have the same vision as the pastor. Does the pastor not wash the feet of the congregation? Last time I 'confronted' a pastor, he was taken aback a little, and then he apologised, told me that I was right and said thank you. A good pastor. He, as we all do, had forgotten himself briefly. On other occasions, he told me how he was, after 35 years, still learning from the congregation. He served and truly followed that command 'feed My sheep'.

[@soulifam]

Though it goes without saying, i'm going to say it. Frank is most likely referring to essential doctrines and not secondary issues. If there are secondary issues that you just can't get over, that's fine, go to another church. But not agreeing on a secondary issue does not mean the pastor is apostate.

[@ironcityblue]

Any "officer" persecuting the Bible is acting under false authority and is not to be obeyed.

[@larzman651]

Leave that church , your not forced to be there. Read your bible at home every day. Why do people think they have to go to a building? 23 The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over

[@SGOV86]

@@larzman651 Hebrews 10:25 says that you will not be absent from your gatherings as some are used to do so...

[@larzman651]

@@SGOV86 context please

[@schlauchmeister234]

"Leave that church" - Not necessarily. In a lot of churches, the pastor is accountable to others, such as a board of elders or deacons. If going to the pastor directly doesn't do anything, those other church leaders might offer a solution such as removing the pastor. Some people really love their church community. If the members are solidly christian, it makes more sense to try to fix that particular church rather than to just abandon it. And, as someone else here also pointed out, Hebrews 10 instructs us to not forsake gathering together.

[@SGOV86]

@@larzman651 I forgot to mention that it is not about a/the building because that is just a shelter. But believers need to come together as the bible teaches.

[@larzman651]

@schlauchmeister234 i don't need a building to gather together with other believers to fellowship and I read my Bible at home daily not just a 10 second reading on Sunday that pertains to little Timmy eating a hotdogs. Wake up and leave the box you live in

[@mlauntube]

A shepherd (pastor) is not a leader, they are supposed to tend the needs of the flock. Jesus is supposed to be your leader. If you are going to a church where Jesus is not the actual leader (not just a figurehead), you could "come out of her" and start looking for even a single christian who is willing to meet with you on a regular basis to break bread and serve Jesus as your King.

[@EBM1966]

The Reformed Church of America (RCA), the Presbyterian church, the UCC and the Lutheran church as gay-affirming-STAY AWAY!!

[@schlauchmeister234]

As far as Lutheran goes, it depends on the synod. I know the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, for one, does not affirm homosexual behavior.

[@Gek711]

@@EBM1966 I love how extremists feel like they own the religion when nobody could be further from Jesus than you.

[@EBM1966]

@@Gek711Jesus said- in the Mark 5: “do you not know that He creates them male and female and that a man shall leave his mother and father and be joined to HIS WIFE…” But thanks for judging me and reminding me that I cannot “own” religion.”

[@Gek711]

@@EBM1966 so you thinking the prejudice messages are more important than the loving ones. I think that says everything about your version of Christianity.

[@fibonacho]

The PCUSA's beliefs are very different from the PCA's beliefs.

[@DruPetty42]

I think people frown upon a lay member going to the pastor themselves if the pastor is gravitating to teaching a false doctrine or just blatantly teaching a false doctrine.

[@HarryFaber-z7l]

The only reason to frown is if the lay member is a 'better' Christian than the pastor. We are all entitled to check the 'message', we are all encouraged to read and contemplate for ourselves, and we gave a standard against which we may hold our priests.

[@oshea2300]

Surah 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture,1 until they pay the tax,2 willingly submitting, fully humbled.

[@Servant-u9z]

Allah (Yahwehs judgement be upon him) is the greatest of deceivers. Therefore if you listen to him or his prophet Muhammad (Justice be upon him), who was lied to, you are being deceived. Yahweh (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) will not deceive because it’s not in His nature. Yahweh, not allah (judgement be upon him), sent Yeshua (all glory be upon Him). Therefore Yeshua (all glory be upon Him) is whom you should follow because He won’t lie to you and He was sent by El Elyon (the Most High). None are above the Most High, meaning even the deceiver allah (judgement be upon him) is below Yahweh.

[@jaymichael91]

A pastor doesn't own the House of God. The members are the bosses. The pastor is an exofficio and can be tossed out with the bath water. Don't flee, stick together, and admonish the pastor.

[@mandys6525]

The church is Jesus' church.

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

Every Christian believes that their interpretation is the correct one. Thanks to translation and mistranslation it’s hard to nail down even what the objectively correct words should be, let alone the correct interpretation. Just because your pastor disagrees with your interpretation doesn’t mean yours is more correct.

[@speedchaser4991]

Your right! everybody has their own interpretations; Thats why it's very important to let the bible interpret the bible.

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

@@speedchaser4991 you’ll still end up with an absolute mess. The Bible is chronically inconsistent.

[@mattr.1887]

It's the Bible that leads to so many different denominations, interpretations, and competing doctrines.

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

@@mattr.1887 exactly. And most of them strongly believing that they have the objectively correct reading of scripture.

[@ChrisFineganTunes]

I’m embarrassed to say that I used to get into arguments about whether infant baptism was legitimate. Cringeworthy.

[@BoereViking]

What would you guys say regarding the following statement: All women pastors are sus... True or False? ❤️🇿🇦

[@Servant-u9z]

Women pastors are not just sus. They’re not just false leaders. But strait up demonic. Anything opposite of what God said via the Word is from another source. Anything opposite the hierarchical structure God laid down for His church is a perversion. I’m not a misogynist. Women are very important and can do things men cannot. But God’s kingdom is clearly a patriarchy. Thus so is His Church since it’s a reflection/extension of it.

[@kvanniekerk3792]

True - there is no such thing as a female pastor found anywhere in scripture. That ends the discussion about women leading a church.

[@sidwhiting665]

The issue of female leadership in the church is always a relevant topic for Christians to discuss. There certainly are several passages in the New Testament that appear to limit, if not totally forbid, women from serving in the role of pastor. Now one must discern to what extent that applies in other areas of service and leadership. Some will cites prophetesses such as Miriam (Moses' sister) and Anna (New Testament). To that, I respond, "Women may serve as prophetesses." Some will cite Debra in the book of Judges. To that, I respond, "That's a one-off situation during a time of rank apostacy in the history of the covenant with the theistic nation of Israel. The exception does not provide the rule." Some will cite Phoebe the deaconess in Romans. To that, I respond, "Women may serve as a deaconess." There are others such as Huldah, Priscilla, Euodia and Syntyche who are mentioned in various roles, some of which are leadership roles. To that, I say, "Okay, follow the biblical pattern, but don't push it further than what you see." The plain fact is we see no examples of women serving as Pastors in the Bible. Not even one. We do see them serving in many other roles. Throughout the OT and NT, we see a consistent pattern of male leadership. The fact is women can and do serve important roles in the church. But there are some roles in which we can't make a defensible argument based on biblical principles. Pastor is one of those. Elder is somewhat open to interpretation, but on the balance it appears we have 1... possibly 2 women serving as Elders, but that certainly is not common practice. If Paul wanted that to be common practice he would've said something to that effect. So, unless one considers Paul a misogynist and a sexist (and if that's true of him, why take anything else he says to heart? Might as well throw out 2/3rds of the NT), then we follow common practice of males as Pastors and Elders. If anyone has BIBLICAL evidence to the contrary (not just "modern" political opinions), I'm willing to listen and learn.

[@therick363]

@@Servant-u9zdemonic ha ha ha ha

[@Servant-u9z]

@@therick363 yes. Feminism has its roots in the occult worship of demons, if you do the research you’ll find it. Do you need me to help you with that?

[@swgeek4310]

I think the issue is that it isn't so much about what is preached in the bible and sharing that. I think with the politics ( I live in the US) and what is being preached people are seeing a lot of hypocrisy. For example, "they dehumanize people I am scared of but he doesn't like abortion, so he is a Godly man". I see certain sins like homosexuality and abortion put on this golden pedestal and all other sin ignored because we as humans have essentially put in a score system. Sin is sin. Another example I don't have to biblically agree with your gay marriage, but I can love and support you just the same. Instead, you see open hostility and hate towards a group of people. Is that what Jesus taught us?

[@mangaranwow2543]

I hope that Pope Francis sees this.

[@kd6836]

He’s too busy reading Karl Marx and Anton LeVay materials.

[@Gek711]

If your pastor is reading from the Bible then his truth is just as good as Frank's.

[@grantbartley483]

These days that's a big 'if'

[@ji8044]

Turek has never read the Bible, or thinks his supporters have never read the Bible.

[@gi169]

​@@ji8044😂🤣😅😅🤣😂

[@ji8044]

@@gi169 I've seen a lot of these KZbin conmen come and go and Turek is like Ken Ham but without the dinosaurs playing with humans part.

[@gi169]

​@@ji8044 Well, thanks for letting me know I guess.🤔🤨🧐

[@John3.36]

Get out asap.

[@PatrickStar12341]

Yup, people just need to leave once their Church goes woke. If you continue to support them nothing will change.

[@ThreeFortySeven]

Dr Turek and truth. That’s rich.

[@desertwolfskin2148]

Issues with the Doc?

[@29th.]

True wealth.

[@ThreeFortySeven]

@@desertwolfskin2148 Yes. I’ve admired and respected Dr Turek for awhile now and I still agree with most of what he says. Recently he uploaded a video about planned parenthood. I don’t want to give details because YT tends to delete those comments for whatever reason. Dr Turek altered the facts of what happened in order to further his agenda. I’m not against the agenda, but I am against him manipulating his audience. I support it’s possible that he really doesn’t know, but he’s very intelligent and a respected apologist, who should know. If he finds his sources in question, he should be examining multiple sources before publishing a story as complete truth. If you’re interested, check out the video and then fact check it.

[@ThreeFortySeven]

@@desertwolfskin2148 Yes. He manipulated the facts of a story he reported on to mislead his audience.

[@mattslater2603]

​@@desertwolfskin2148....you don't take issues with liars?

[@kinggenius930]

What un-Biblical teachings would those be?

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

Jesus used the Word of God from the front of the Bible to fight the lies of the enemy! I'm convinced anyone telling you it's okay to break God's Law is a LIAR. That's what the enemy did in the garden. Jesus obeyed God. We should too!

[@kinggenius930]

@@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk Break laws such as what?

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

@kinggenius930 God's Holy and perfect Laws He instructed His people. The 10 Words, also known as Commandments. And the book of Words also known as Deuteronomy. In the original Hebrew these are called Words, why do you think it was translated wrong in English? The prophets specifically tell us not to worship under every green tree like the pagans. Isaiah even warns at His return He will find people hiding behind the wrong tree 🎄 trying to sanctify themselves while eating SWINE’S flesh. The prophets in Scripture all warn of end times teachers leading people astray and casting God's Law behind their back. It is why the enemy is called the Lawless One, and His children are called SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE.

[@kinggenius930]

@@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk All of the laws and instructions given by god in the Bible are perfect?

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

@kinggenius930 It is WRITTEN.... The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple; The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, Yea, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them Your servant is warned, And in keeping them there is great reward.

[@keithrichards7084]

You better be sure your Pastor is wrong about doctrine. I watch many channels and see many arguments about timing of rapture , only one war of Gog, it all happened by AD 70. and so on and so on.

[@davelyn786]

Ok this is what’s wrong with the church. Why does this guy have to leave when the pastor doesn’t listen? The pastor needs to be removed from the leadership position. Otherwise you are taking the solid biblical Christian out of a church and leaving other believers with the wolf. This happens so much more that people could imagine. Elders and deacons become loyal to the pastor and don’t take a stand either. Likely because they were already on the inner circle when the were nominated to those positions. It’s truly sad. I don’t like this advice.

[@AncientAir]

Which Bible? That’s the first question…

[@Moist._Robot]

Thumbnail Guy needs a raise. 😂

[@TomMichael5678]

How much funnier would that have been had it been Greta standing at the pulpit? Or a Pfizer representative? Or Moderna? Or an Astrazeneca representative?

[@mattslater2603]

​​@@TomMichael5678Goofball absolutely TRIGGERED by the existence of pharmaceutical companies... What a cuck.

[@Moist._Robot]

@ I think they got it right first time marra. You sheep just believe whatever your leaders tell you. Back to sleep now junior

[@TomMichael5678]

​@@mattslater2603 My apologies pseudoscience soy boy. Whatchya dressing up as for Halloween, $hlatz? A crybaby snow❄️flake would be epic AND so fitting.

[@TomMichael5678]

​@@Moist._Robot If you actually "thought", Cardano, that would be a small accomplishment in and of itself. Now run along, pseudoscience boy, Pfizer has a new updated pseudoscience 💉 for you. Be sure and take Popeye here with ya.

[@UnimpressedFatCat]

Make sure you are clear about what false doctrine you’re referring to when you go gripe to your pastor. Generally vague accusations of “drifting” and “not preaching truth” are so unhelpful. Half the time what people really mean is “We just wish you were John MacArthur and not…you know…you.” And don’t drop a copy of “Shepherds for Sale” by his office either 🙄🙄🙄

[@keithrichards7084]

Agree.

[@hhh-et2vi]

Frank nails it. Find a minister in a church that thinks like you do, and interprets the Bible the way that you do. Or just listen to Frank because Frank is more right than anyone, including God.

[@Hakeem597]

"interprets the bible the way you do"...2 Peter 1:20-21 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. You go to a church that preaches sound doctrine, sticks to the scripture, not tell you what you want to hear.

[@mattr.1887]

🤣🤣🤣

[@hhh-et2vi]

@@Hakeem597 You do realize there's more than one sect of Christianity. They all think they have the right interpretation, you think you have the right interpretation and the right Church. Biblical scripture is not sound, it's all about multiple choice, interpretation and excuse-making if you're not happy with the literal meaning.

[@keithrichards7084]

So glad you and only you have all truth. Self righteous nonsense.

[@hhh-et2vi]

@@keithrichards7084 Criticism is better with examples., do you have any?

[@bobbyjones9283]

What is sus?

[@schlauchmeister234]

Suspicious or suspect.

[@Chris_Sheridan]

The true religion does not entertain political topics nor man-made philosophy - Jesus never discussed politics - he taught about God's kingdom exclusively as the solution to mankind's problems. - Matthew 6:33 and Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19 & 20 Christians are 'no part of the world' - 'friendship with the world is enmity with God'. With regards to false teachers and false religion - those organisations will come to nothing - anyone who wakes up is commanded to leave false religion, not to try and change it: read Revelation chapter 18, particularly verse 4. If someone within the Christian congregation starts spreading opposing doctrine or becomes apostate, the bible counsels 'remove the wicked man from among your midst' - in this way the elders protect the flock. If someone commits a sin and remains unrepentant - they are to be removed. If someone acknowledges their error and takes steps not to repeat it and ceases practising what they know to be wrong, they can receive counsel and forgiveness and remain in the Christian congregation as long as they demonstrate good works and fruits of the spirit.

[@kevinwesterville2115]

That’s how you get Trump

[@nickjones1314]

The concept of us subscribing to deities that relies on the written/spoken words of man have failed us all. You should never have to go to a man to get to a god. Man only speaks on behalf of gods that he has created.

[@rolandwatts3218]

"You are wolves in sheep's clothing" "You are teaching damnable heresy" "You are blaspheming" "You are diluting the truth" Christians have been saying these kinds of things against each other since the beginning of the faith. For example, just look at some of the ugliness between Calvinists and Arminians. Yet somehow they all know the truth. No one else does. Somehow they are wise. All others are fools. Somehow they are in the light and healed. All others are in darkness and sick. Somehow they are joyous. All others are miserable. Somehow they have truth. All others have lies. Somehow they are the salt of the earth and have pearls. All others are swine. Somehow they are Godly and righteous. All others are Satanic and wicked. Somehow they are humble. All others are prideful. Somehow they are saved. All others are damned. ^^ The above does not apply to all Christians, not by a long shot. However, maybe those pastors who are supposedly diluting the "truth" are pointing many believers to something said believers are too blind to see because those believers are so convinced of their own 'truth superiority' to all other people (including other Christians) on the planet.

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

My DOCTRINE is not My own but His who sent Me...... Do not think I came to abolish the Law or prophets....... till heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the Law..... Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven..... And yet.... We don't obey God's Law We don't remember Sabbath We don't keep God's Feasts We sacrifice pig in our temple We don't obey and follow Christ We don't go and Sin no more ...... Are we following the LAWLESS ONE? He disguises himself as an angel of light to deceive us to break God's Law. His children are called SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE. The true Messiah never disobeyed God, do you hear His voice!???

[@ji8044]

That would be the Mosaic Law, kept by Jews, not Christians.

[@Servant-u9z]

@@ji8044Yeshua repeated all of them, except keeping the sabbath, to His followers…

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

@ji8044 It is written... You shall have one manner of law for the foreigner as for the native, for I am the Lord your God. .... It says this many times in Scripture. It is why we are grafted in. What did the enemy do in the garden? He asked .... "Did God really say?" And then... "You surely won't die!" In order to cause them to disobey. Isn't that exactly what Christian teachers do? Did God REALLY say we shouldn't eat pig and shrimp? Did God REALLY say to keep Sabbath? It's okay now to sin and do whatever's right in your own eyes (self righteousness) because you surely won't die! Don't believe me.... Read Psalm 1 Read Psalm 19:7-11 Read the longest Psalm of David Psalm 119

[@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mk]

@Servant-u9z Remember when He said.... "For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.” ??? In context it came from Isaiah 56:1-7 which has to do with the Sabbath for everyone.... all God's people!!!

[@Servant-u9z]

@@ShuwshanEmeq-xb3mkyes. But the requirement for the sabbath was instituted as a day of rest. In Matthew 11:28-30 Christ tells us that He is now our source of rest. The context there is He was saying that to mainly Jewish people who knew the buzzword “rest” pointed to the sabbath command. Therefore the passage exegeted is indicating Christ said if we come to Him, we will receive that sabbath rest. Moreover, he was saying that if you came to him, not only would you find physical Sabbath rest, but something greater, something they knew the Sabbath rest was more importantly about: you’d find “rest for you soul.” True, shalom-like rest. True rest we were designed for. So here Jesus is saying, “I am the fulfillment of the Sabbath rest. That God-designed rest you need is not going to be found only from getting enough sleep, or from not working once a week. You must come to me for it.”

[@TomTom-ku6qi]

ALL CHRISTIANS ARE , SUS ! the alphabet letter, J , was invented in 1524 CE, 500 years ago. There were NO alphabet letter , J , in ANY language nor alphabet in the ENTIRE WORLD until the 16th century. Therefore, it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the true name of our Messiah to be Jesus, as that name is a only about 400 years old. Jesus is pagan Greek name meaning inferior, substandard. Messiah was NOT GREEK ! YAHUSHA - ORIGINAL, INSPIRED Paleo Hebrew name meaning: “ I am your Deliverer.” Research : Natsarim & YAHUSHA AlleluYAH ! AlleluYAHUAH ! AlleluYAHUSHA !

[@hansdemos6510]

Not sure why Dr. Turek tacks on a political message to his response to this religious question... Regarding the question itself, though, usually your pastor will have his own reasons for his views, and will feel he is just as "Biblically sound" as you are. And as God has always carefully stayed out of theological disagreements, in the end it will just be your opinion against that of your pastor. But why should that lead to the conclusion that your pastor is a "wolf", why make people believe a pastor you have theological disagreements with is your enemy? Why the antagonism? Why the aggression? Why the hate? Is that the reason Dr. Turek segues into his political message? Because to him this is an "us versus them" situation?

[@somerandom3247]

Staying on topic isn't something apologists are good at.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE PROPHETIC TIMES IN WHICH WE LIVE. WHEN STUDYING ESCHATOLOGY TUREKS APPROACH IS VERY LOGICAL. GET BUSY AND AWAKEN TO THE LAST DAYS THAT WE ARE IN!

[@hansdemos6510]

@@fabbrofamily7038 You said: _"IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE PROPHETIC TIMES IN WHICH WE LIVE. WHEN STUDYING ESCHATOLOGY TUREKS APPROACH IS VERY LOGICAL. "_ Just some friendly advice first... Writing in ALL CAPS is considered the equivalent of shouting on the Internet. It is not considered good manners to write everything you type as if you are shouting. Your claims about the _"prophetic times"_ in which you believe we live are a good example of what my comment is about. You have that theological opinion, while I don't. As your God is not here to tell us who is right, we are at an impasse. The respectful and rational, and even logical, thing to do is to acknowledge our difference of opinion as well as our inability to establish who is right, and to admit that we really don’t know. It is *_not_* to start SHOUTING, call each other names, and demonize each other.

[@mattslater2603]

​@@fabbrofamily7038Christian nutter caps ftw....

[@TomTom-ku6qi]

SUS. ? SUS in Greek means inferior, substandard ! JeSUS is Pagan Greek name meaning inferior, substandard ! YAHUSHA - Paleo Hebrew. Means: “ I am your Deliverer.” RESEARCH THUS : Natsarim & YAHUSHA !

[@aaronmusa234]

don't worry all pastors and church clergy teaching trinity trigodism and holding sabbath on sun day the day Rome worshipped the sun god are leading their congregations astray. as Jesus taught monotheism and started sabbath Friday sundown. muslims all day Friday

[@keithrichards7084]

And Koran was written in hell. Jesus is God. Trinity is truth.

[@mattslater2603]

​@@keithrichards7084 Demonstrate those 3 claims to be true, please.

[@aaronmusa234]

@@keithrichards7084 yet dude on cross with his last breath cried out ' Allaha Allaha why have you forsaken me ' had roman pagan trinity christianity any truth he would have cried out 'trinity trinity trinity ' scram kid you're out of your league. muslim since 2002

[@keithrichards7084]

@@aaronmusa234 haha. In God's Word, Jesus claimed to be God. So Mr. Muslim, YOUR Jesus is either a liar or a lunatic. Pick one. Makes the Koran a book of lies.

[@aaronmusa234]

@@keithrichards7084 naw. son that. dog won't hunt there is a 3rd option the church after trinity vote at nicea 325ad made it illegal for people to own a bible. 325ad to 16th century until Martin Luther broke the ban ..william Tyndall last man burnt at the stake by the church for owning a bible 1532 ..so the 3rd option is the church added and subtracted from Jesus when not busy chasing the 11 yr old altar boys around the rectory. and it confessed. Jeremiah 8 8 ' scribes falsified the Bible with their lying pens ' now then how are you still led astray ? muslim since 2002

[@somerandom3247]

If you are looking for truth in a church, you are in the wrong place.

[@fabbrofamily7038]

FIND A TRULY REMNANT CHURCH AND START LEARNING ESCHATOLOGY!

[@Servant-u9z]

How do you arrive at the truth in your own life?

[@somerandom3247]

@@Servant-u9z By investigating reality. Seeing if propositions align with reality.

[@Servant-u9z]

@@somerandom3247 so how many churches did you investigate before you arrived at the conclusion that all churches (you didn’t say it explicitly but “all” is the implication in your claim) are the wrong place to go looking for the truth of reality? 1, 4, 10, 50, 100, 1000? 1,000,000 perhaps?

[@somerandom3247]

@@Servant-u9z 2. After that It was pretty clear that any churches covering the same topic aren't going to be good places to find the truth.

[@Sparrow-u9r]

What do you mean by christian orthodoxy? Do you mean early church fathers? Not all those doctrines are biblical textually correct and sound.

[@TheGuy..]

Christian orthodoxy would be the basic tenets of Christianity. It is to be based on scripture and not on the opinion of churches or people (church fathers). Just as you say, they get things wrong or confused. I think Frank would agree.

[@ji8044]

How do YOU know? LOL

[@Servant-u9z]

@@ji8044the opinions of the early Church fathers were usually recorded. All it takes is some reading to figure them out.

[@CrossExamined]

FREE Download of sermon I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist!: 👉📱cutt.ly/cInI1eo