Heroes and Hardships is a crunchy universal RPG system to rule them all | RPG Review

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[@DaveThaumavore]

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[@calvinjim8829]

The dice system is basically the Roll and Keep system from the original Legend of the Five Rings RPG. Cool.

[@deedoublejay]

I feel like my brain got scooped out. This manifests so many ideas I've had about mechanics I'd want in a crunchy system. I will definitely check it out. Thanks for the review, Dave!

[@Acmegamer]

I've never felt that GURPS was confluted. It's just too much material. The base system is a very easy to grok 3d6 roll under system. It becomes more dense (but not confluted) as you add more to it. Personally I'm still more of a GURPS 2e/early 3e GM. I never warmed up to GURPS 4e which from the start throws too much into the base system. I place the blame on that with Sean Punch who is the line editor of GURPS 4e. Great review of Heroes & Hardships, which is what I expect from any of your reviews. They're always in depth and insightful. My own personal opinion of Heroes & Hardships after your review is that it does actually feel confluted in comparison to GURPS, Savage Worlds, Hero Systems, Ubiquity or BRP based rpgs. Since I'm more of a universal/skill based gamer/GM, I'll snag H&H rpg just to have it in my library though. Thanks for the great review as usual, Dave.

[@borusa32]

Agree entirely-a few years ago I ran a Doctor Who game just using Gurps lite and it was fine.

[@FellVoice]

Thank you.

[@kalleendo7577]

Awesome!!

[@BanjoSick]

Are we getting a new wave of simulationist games? That I live to see this, Im getting all misty eyed.

[@bo4340]

Thanks for the great review. It's one of the best I've seen for this system. As someone who has played a fair amount of H&H and GM'd a full campaign, I'm a huge supporter. One thing that becomes obvious from the moment you sit down with H&H is that the core mechanic is very intuitive and, even if you can't remember some of the crunch at the table, your best guess is usually good enough. I'm looking forward to more settings as they are released and definitely plan to run another campaign using H&H. Nice work, Dave!

[@opscontaylor8195]

I really don't need another 'universal' system... I really don't need another 'universal' system... _I really don't need another 'universal' system..._ Oh, this sounds like WEG D6 Star Wars using D10 instead. Also, this looks like one of those games that is going to _need_ a really good GM screen to shine.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

And probebly 8 hours a session

[@tetnak]

I've played/run H&H before and this isn't even close to being true.@@yuvalgabay1023

[@susanosalceda8034]

This sounds great. My crunchy rule set of choice is Hero System. I've been playing that for decades, and it still is my favorite game system. That said, this is definitely worth looking into.

[@mariodosantos]

That's exactly L5R 1st-4th edition and 7th Sea 1e's Roll and Keep system. Even the attributes + extra metacurrency attribute.

[@BladesandBlasters]

It is similar, but there are some differences in how everything works.

[@mariodosantos]

​@@BladesandBlasters I don't mean it as a critique. I love that system. Is just that is not as innovative as Dave makes it sound.

[@BladesandBlasters]

Oh, I understand. I think the innovation comes from other places in the system. You don't see a lot of R&K additive systems like L5R/7th Sea/H&H, but the combat system is completely unique IMO. @@mariodosantos

[@mariodosantos]

@@BladesandBlasters surely. I already recommended it to the Spanish L5R server. There are lots of 4e players over there that may be able to mine H&H for their games or even port it over :)

[@TitterpigRancher]

As someone who owns ALL of the 1st edition 7th Sea books, this was my EXACT thought too. And I love that system! I might look at picking this one up when I get the funds. It would be interesting, in fact, to see if this system fixes some of the broken parts of 7th Sea's R&K, like Panache being an I-win button.

[@walterw9829]

So many possibilities. It might be useful to bolster an existing system too without creating a new world.

[@shawnfisher9976]

GURPS is best.

[@Mantorp86]

It’s awesome to see new universal systems. The d10 dice pool is maybe a problem for someone who doesn’t have many dice. I’m still waiting for a PbtA universal system with non-binary resolution.

[@taejaskudva2543]

That new City of Mist game, the fantasy one that just hit KS, is as close to a universal PbtA mechanic as I've seen, with the way tags create your roll bonus (Power) and instead of a Moves list there's now a unified resolution system, something to do with interacting with the tags utilized for the roll.

[@taejaskudva2543]

Funny how many systems are this roll and keep style. It reminded me of ASOIAF RPG/Sword Chronicle's roll as many dice as Atr + Skill, keep Atr dice and add up, but with d10s instead of d6s. Came a while after L5R, but i honestly don't remember L5R's system because the last time i played it was probably 1998.... One thing that makes or breaks that style of mechanic is a well designed set of scaling difficulty TNs and XP systems (earned vs costs), because otherwise starting characters seem feeble while veteran characters do everything with laughable ease.

[@Hydralyk]

Very interesting but definitely way too crunchy for me, i definitely think the buy in for this game is too steep for my group, but different difficulty levels is definitely a very cool idea

[@dane3038]

There's definitely room in the industry for more universal/skill based systems. Personally, I'll waiting for a medium crunch universal system with a simple die mechanic ( no dice pools or whatever SW uses ) and no gimmicks like cards and a boon/ban token mechanic. Most developers give us different for the sake of different, something obviously built on the bones of GURPS ( or look there's that "Dodge, Perry, Block" active defense again, or the currently in vogue ( at least with designers ) rules light system. Come on guys, you know we need a simpler version of GURPS but with a static defense so the GM can rest.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

Its wierd we have alot of lighter nerretive univerls. Alot of ultra crunche(pretty much most super hero games are universal) But very few medium crunch

[@zraal3759]

Look into savage worlds. I would say it is on higher end of medium crunchy.

[@HandsOfBlue]

Reminds me of L5R, before Genisys, in a good way. I did enjoy the shifting combat, and messing with Void powers (Fate?) but had some problems handling all the lore and cold war factions. Excited to play in this system

[@Vanret255]

Shoutout to Genesys as a great generic RPG that wasn't mentioned in the Intro! Really like the die mechanic on display here, been getting into the most recent L5R game and the older roll and keep that people in that community talk about seems really interesting, so its good to see it getting used here. The only thing that turns me off of this game is I don't really see what genre/narrative type it would be best for, and I think Generics work best when they are designed to replicate a type of media (like pulp, action movies, simulating combat in excruciating detail, etc).

[@TheCrow_2099]

Love this system and definitely needs some home brewing. I need to know how to make my own spells and how to build my own monsters. So maybe a supplement for those two different things would help.

[@tetnak]

How to create monsters is in the Core Rulebook.

[@TheCrow_2099]

@@tetnak sorry I meant how to set up challenges with monsters for each power level.

[@tetnak]

Gotcha. I think that it is intended that there wouldn't be something like a CR. That's really a product of modern D&D. Otherwise, the adversaries do have a general power level compared to each other. Minons/Foes/Adversaries/Arch-Enemies, etc. @@TheCrow_2099

[@ReekingGallant]

Looks cool. They also inherited Abandon All Hope which uses it's own unique dice mechanics.

[@wallacebonner7939]

It has some interesting design elements, but hard to get into games that don't have a bit more AP and npc support these days, due to lack of time. I think for granularity, though, I'd stick with the HERO system.

[@BladesandBlasters]

As Dave was mentioning, there are several cheap bestiaries and a over a dozen adventures, etc.

[@schemage2210]

Its going up against the likes of FATE, Cypher, Savage Worlds and even GURPS and yet it only seems to be focused on doing combat really well. Thats a bit of a let down imo.

[@tetnak]

Why would you think it only does combat well?

[@schemage2210]

@@tetnak D&D 5e is meant to be 1/3rd combat with social and exploration play too. In practice though combat rules for D&D and all that goes with, take up more than half the 2014 PHB. I get the same impression from H&H!

[@tetnak]

Nah. I've run it, not true. ​@@schemage2210

[@slaapliedje]

I wouldn't say GURPS is convoluted. Easiset way to play it is for the GM to create a custom file for GCS (Gurps Character Sheet) and give that to players for their character creation. After that, there are helpers, like the combat cards, so people can know the different things you can do during combat. Still my favorite system.

[@yzfool6639]

That's convoluted. Being convoluted doesn't mean being boring.

[@slaapliedje]

@yzfool6639 Ha, never said it did. GURPS is logic and skill based, once you understand the core concept of 'you have a target number based on skill / attribute, add or minus based on difficulty, and roll' it applies to the whole system. You don't have this weird scaling issue that most systems seem to have. As a GM in in say PF2E, you kind of will need to bump the DC of stuff, or it won't be a challenge once the party has leveled up. Whereas with GURPS, that is never a thing that happens, and a failure chance is always there unless you are basically a super hero. Always something that has irritated me with most video game RPGs, they can't figure out leveling / scale, so you end up getting weapons that do 100,000s of damage... and creatures with millions of hitpoints. Something in GURPS with 200 hitpoints and a high HT score would take a long while to kill (unless of course you had guns, then you could turn it to burger pretty quick... unless it has armor too...) probably my favorite thing about GURPS is the lack of levels and classes. Though the lack of scaling hitpoints can make it challenging to come up with encounters that are balanced, which I always think GURPS has a small weakness with. But it is meant as a framework to build your game on.

[@malkomalkavian]

The 'balanced' encounter idea is the flaw. The world is unfair, players should be putting effort and planning into balancing out the chances of survival.@@slaapliedje

[@slaapliedje]

@malkomalkavian Ha, not exactly what I meant by that. More, "how can I make sure the players get one fight, then have to make new characters, because that would get old really fast." Granted, being able to just slay everything they encounter without breaking a sweat is also not ideal. 'Balanced' means 'keep it interesting.' My understanding of D&D 5e, is that latter part is really hard to do at higher levels, when your characters basically become the Hulk.

[@malkomalkavian]

Hey, I know I talk big on the internet about running a realistic game and statting stuff as it would be. but I roll behind a screen and pull my punches sometimes and I've even run campaigns where nobody dies, and nobody expects to and it was fine :) I don't think I could run a high level dnd game with all the spells and lore because that would be an immense amount of reading and effort to keep continuity which doesn't sound like my kind of fun. @@slaapliedje

[@cajunmitch4081]

I'm gonna give this a pass. I've played this type of system for years; L5R 1-4e, 7th Sea, VtM, among others. That dice pool may be fun for the roller, but when you got 4 players and 7 NPCs in a fight, 1 round is 15+ minutes and it is SO BORING watching someone else pick their actions, roll, reroll if procked, roll explosions, select dice, then do math; and that's only if what they do only takes 1 roll. It killed me and my players. And this is supposed to be even more complex? This isn't even getting into the horrible numeric issues that plagued this system's probabilities. Hell, John Wick (not that one), who created this system abandoned it after trying for years to fix it. Pass

[@BladesandBlasters]

There are no rounds, which makes combat very quick. Turns come up fast, giving people stuff to do much more often than a traditional round-based system.

[@cajunmitch4081]

@@BladesandBlasters Combat is not quick, I played the quickstart around the time of the kickstarter. All they did was change a traditional initiative system with a modified version of the Feng Shui initiative system. Which still ends up playing like rounds, only now you have to do more math to figure out your next turn in combat. And oh boy does that drag when fighting a bunch of grunts. The dice resolution mechanic is still the same, with all of the problems that have been documented over it's 20+ years, which is what I was explaining in my post.

[@BladesandBlasters]

Going to have to disagree on both counts. I've run/played L5R and this and it takes no longer than most any other RPG. To each they're own of course. ​@@cajunmitch4081

[@aneverdayhobbiest2837]

I love savage world super games. Is this like savage worlds in that you need a core book to go with this one?

[@ihatevnecks7015]

This is the core book; he covers that in the video.

[@DaveThaumavore]

The core book covers supers.

[@tablerockteacompany]

Would love to see your review of Alloyed RPG!

[@mavfan21]

Wow, that looks a lot more complex than Savage Worlds and ICRPG. I'll be passing on this one.