Heroic Main Character's | Deku Vs Shirou

[@RagnarokMasta]

I think for Shirou, one of the reasons that would have unilaterally shown people that he is kinda wacked upstairs is the fact that shortly after being adopted by Kiritsugu, he would walk to the desolate, burned remains of the place he used to live, and wave to his dead mother, imaging her waving back to him from the kitchen. Unfortunately, that context you'll only get in the VN, but at least the HF manga showed his parents...somewhat. The anime are good for what they are, but man, you need that context with TM characters.

[@PenumbralVT]

yeah anime only's miss a huge part of shirou's character unfortunately, its why a lot of them think he's generic when he couldn't be more unique

[@chriselyea2545]

Which route is this on on

[@kathrine4826]

@@chriselyea2545 I am not 100% sure, but I believe it's in Heaven's Feel. However, if you want to read the visual novel I highly recommend playing the routes in order (Fate > Unlimited Blade Works > Heaven's Feel), even if you've seen the anime, just because of how much more you'll understand the characters (and Shirou in particular).

[@gaminultra6734]

Oh yeah that waving his mother part if im not mistaken happens in the church basement scene in fate route (VN)

[@RagnarokMasta]

@@chriselyea2545 Its in the Fate route, Shirou whites out when remembering it, because he doesn't want to remember it. Its why people often mistake when he says the old him died in the fire, its a coping mechanism, because he is actively running from the feeling that when he was adopted by Kiritsugu, of course he missed his parents and hated that they died like that.

[@aLesbianStaccato]

shirou is the "shounen" protagonist that, when you hear someone say they're "literally him", you immediately stage an intervention and recommend therapy.

[@pitifulboyrottenboy1479]

Exactly because I need Therapy, he's literally me /jk But for real, I watched the anime with my girlfriend and she thought of him as another basic ass "heroic" character and I don't really blame her as there is so much context missing in the anime that let's Shirou as a character shine and makes him look less like a gary stu

[@okita_souji_alter]

​@@pitifulboyrottenboy1479 he's not a gary stu in the anime. A gary stu is a male protagonist without flaws that succeeds at pretty much everything. Thats far from what Shirou is

[@usmansubhani7482]

Shirou is so broken… The version in the VN really needs a hug. Anime version doesn’t focus on his broken mind enough. Too much desire and not enough darkness behind that heroic desire.

[@aniphoenix9474]

Fun fact: it was revealed that in the original drafts for MHA, Midoriya wasn't supposed to receive an ability at all. His original gimmick was that he'd use a bunch of weapons and tactical gear and would be trained by the gun teacher in UA, not almight. That's insane! Nothing like what he is now

[@geegee2874]

To be honest i kinda prefer this than the main one Cuz its feels like Deku story is based on a Bullied Male reader on a Wattpad story💀 Imagine that your Goal is solely to Prove that a Quirkless can be a Hero then few Seasons later u have a Power to solo your own Verse💀

[@kubikim]

@@geegee2874 You probably will have a change of heart when you actually read the Oneshot that MHA was based on.

[@jasperbaunee1405]

Lemillion should have been the main character. He's deku, just better in every single way.

[@uhagi6720]

Its kinda weird that MHA straight up portrays the theme of "Anyone can be a Hero" in the first episode (Deku rushing to save Bakugo, despite having no quirks and having to use his mind), then immediately throws it out by giving Deku one of the strongest quirks in existance. It went from "Anyone can be a Hero" to "You need an extremely effective combat oriented quirk in order to be a hero". Hell, Deku literally doesn't need to use his mind after that, since he effectively can just breakthrough his challenges with raw force alone.

[@geegee2874]

@@uhagi6720 the show is straight up a Hypocrite on that one

[@davidj.medinag.6524]

The main difference is that ultimately, what MHA tries to say about heroism and what Fate as a whole tries to said about it is kind of different. For Deku/MHA, is all comes down to that poem refering to the hero name of the characther, that a hero is at his core someone who doesn't look for fame and glory, but someone that is happy with simply helping others, is why none of Deku heroics get any recognition at the beginning that's not really what matters to him and when Hero Society hits their lowest point, Deku spreading that idea toward the rest of the world is what ultimately is gonna save it and let him to become the greatest hero (as said in the first chapter), his mistake (and All Might) was that he thought that he has to do everything by himself and that no matter how powerfull they might be, no man is an island, they need others in order to succeed. In Fate, to be a hero is to essentially touch into territory that is beyond humanity, Shirou is many times referred as more machine than man very often, in order to be a hero you sometimes need to carry on that way, but with that comes the risk of losing who you are, your humanity and identity, wich in the Nasuverse is considered to be a horrible fate, is why Shirou's worst end are Archer or Mind of Steel, those are Shirou's who lost their identities at some point in philosophical sense at least. In contrast Saber is considered s parango in Fate for never losing her humanity in her time as a king in spite of having to often act as a cold machine in order to protect her people. What saves Shirou, as cliche as it sounds, is love, his love for Saber, Rin, Sakura or Illya grounds him into his humanity and allow him to not lose himself, as long as he hold that what is dear to him in his heart, he would never truly fail. Basically, one is a history about a boy saving the world, the other is a history about a boy saving himself.

[@axelaliens153]

I couldn't have said better myself.

[@dkcgaming1892]

I disagree on your point around Saber. According to Garden of Avalon, Saber never lost her humanity... because she was never human. That was instrumental in the fall of Camelot. Saber never understood the people, never became one of the humans, never had a human heart nor could understand it. Hence why she couldnt understand why Camelot fell and she went into trying to justify her kingship. She was loved by the people, yet she never understood why. In Garden of Avalon, she tells Merlin that in another life, she would have loved him. And it made Merlin weep. Because they were the same. Inhumane beings who never understood what love even is. So her words, though heartfelt, were hollow.

[@God-T]

the problem with the heroic characters is they want you jump to a situations without first understanding or thinking why, which is a blind way of pursuing life. not making a conscious effect to understanding a situation actually entails. without intent you can be no hero.

[@kintamas4425]

@@dkcgaming1892 oof I guess that adds another level beyond friend-zone. Existential-zone?

[@richardtheerune2891]

And this is what needs to be hammered in every shirou fanfic... Holy hell the amount of character study needed to even bring out how unique shirou is compared to your generic self sacrificing protagonist.

[@christianstephan7301]

I think it is important to mention that Shirou earned damn hard critique for mentioning his wish to be a hero. Kirei said to him, that his wish to be a hero is equivalent to the wish of villainy, evil or danger since he can not become heroic if there is no one who needs saving. He is selfish. I really loved that scene in the VN, because it enhanced the experience of "being a hero" as a wish. A true hero would not wish to be a hero, since being a hero is a means to an end.

[@Fotoschiki]

I'm a SIMPle man, I see Shirou, I click. And it was really well done. Also I like the way you examined what's wrong with Deku as an MC from a "could have been" perspective. The character leaves much to desire, rather than being bad. Especially since the side characters show us that the author definetly has the ability to explore more interesting themes.

[@PenumbralVT]

I did really want to hammer home the fact that I don't think deku is a bad MC - hell by shonen standards he's actually pretty good - it's more the fact that I feel like he could have been an incredible protagonist had MHA gone down a different route than just giving him the best quirk ever from the get go

[@Fotoschiki]

@@PenumbralVT I know what you mean. I followed MHA for the first 5 seasons passionately, but after season 2 it felt somehow empty and I didn't quite know why. The show became better and more exciting, but something was missing. I think that something was character depth for Deku. Compared to everyone else he seemed rather one dimensional. I should probably soon catch up with season 6, I heard that a lot of things happened that might change that.

[@yukio9723]

@@Fotoschiki Deku's character development happens drastically at season 6. I personally think MHA as one of the best Anime/Manga I've ever read. Compared to other shonen manga it has it's unique story.

[@RoflCannon6]

@@PenumbralVT definitely found it odd that they made a big deal at the beginning about how he obsessively studies heroes and then never use that in any fight. It would’ve been interesting too as when he finally went up against All-for-One, he would have deep knowledge of many quirks and their weaknesses and would have been amazing to see him use that knowledge to defeat the big bad guy in his own dorky way; his own _quirky_ way. Instead it’s just “hahah I punch hard and have a grappling hook made of shadows.”

[@tsurugi5]

Nasu is just a better writer. People don't give him enough credit but as an author, his greatest strengths is psychological writing and thematic coherence. He's capable of condensing characters in a single image and can work very well in different genres. He really knows how to make an interesting character, to the point that a whole story can revolve around one character alone. In this regard, Nasu really shines when he's just writing about the nit and grit of a character and laying out what makes them tick. I think many will overlook and fail to appreciate how thematically sound and well-structured Fate is, it's clear that the writer had clear goals and themes he wanted to set out and tackle from the very start. As seen from an interview; Nasu: The main theme is "conquering oneself." There are three story lines in Fate, each has a different themes. The first one is the "oneself as an ideal." The second one is "struggling with oneself as an ideal." The third one is "the friction with real and ideal." This game is describing the growth of the main character Emiya Shirou. The first storyline shows his slanted mind, the next storyline shows his resolve, and the last storyline gives another resolution for him as a human. All three storylines are essentially equal, but they have different forms." So it is not an exaggeration to say that Shirou IS Fate/ stay night. Everything about the story, from the characters, the villains, the plot, the routes, even the magic system, all serve to relate, parallel, mirror, expound, and reinforce his character in on way or another. Unlike Deku who somehow manages to not take the spotlight in a story that laid out the premise from the very beginning; being his ascent to the greatest hero, FSN is wholly about Shirou and his struggle- in all its completeness. You're in his head for 95% of the novel, you get to see his thoughts, his struggles, his introspection, and other quirks that otherwise, never made it into the anime adaptations. The monologues were an important part of Shirou's character arc and leaving out at least a few of his thoughts does the story a disservice. It doesn't help that UFO removed some details that showed the fundamental flaws in Shirou as a human that drove him to act the way he did. The almost alien way he went about some problems did a lot to inform his strange and broken mental state. Hearing the characters' thoughts, especially when they're written less like info dumps from the author and more like heavily-biased ideas from the characters themselves, can enhance the experience. Shirou's suicidal fervor and the unhinged way he spoke to himself in his head isn't something that is just there so that you can understand what he's thinking, it's so that you can see the degree to which he's gone over the edge and is careening toward oblivion with every extreme measure he considers. At first, he seems largely reasonable and functional, but you get brief flashes of odd thought processes that don't quite track that eventually bloom into full scenes where his broken instincts take over and he's madly trying to maintain what passes for sanity against overwhelmingly insane odds. His actions and spoken words alone don't fully convey it because, as a written medium, the VN took painstaking care to stay in Shirou's head throughout the story. In the anime, he loses most of that oddball edge that he had. They toned him down and it brought him more in line with your typical do-or-die, gutsy protagonist that just wants to save people. The loss of the monologues is just a symptom of that sterilization. TLDR; read the vn Also, I would want to applaud you making this video. This is by far, the one and only video in the entire platform that actually understood shirou and explained what makes him and the vn so good. As a long time tm fan, thank you for making this.

[@scares3859]

👏🏻

[@p3protagonist991]

Im glad somebody here also thinks that way. Nasu is a genius on creating the structure and mentality of a chracter and developing further their traits throught the entire story, constantly challenging their life’s philosophy and question their very existence. He writes Shirou’s thoughts in a way you can understand his broken mind, or in HF case, how his thoughts get progresively incoherent and shorter as Archer’s arm consumes his mind.

[@dominicmorales6800]

You forget one major detail with Emiya and that’s that his character has ridiculous potential for broader story telling. I recently, after trying to avoid it for so long, got into fan fictions. I don’t know what the true reason is but people seem to understand Emiya on a spiritual level. The amount of cross overs where they just plop him into a different anime is insane. He’s need to be a hero coupled with his insane work ethic means he can always assist in the plot. Some of the best cross overs have him in Danmachi, High School DxD , and RWBY of all thing. His skill set just makes him overpowered but the reasonable limitations such as his magic circuits make for great story telling. You know a character is exquisite when random people that understand him can pick him up and just cross him over with great results. Him banging Rias from High school DxD due to many intimate moments (she literally jumped him before the Riser fight) is a personal favorite. You just want to route for Emiya.

[@iboneofsword864]

My man also read Fate Bonds Beyond Humanity.I am so glad that it's one of the fanfics which still get updated regularly, as it's really really good.

[@dominicmorales6800]

@@iboneofsword864 I reread Fate Bonds Beyond Humanity every now and then because it’s such a good story. Shirou is a cultural icon at this point and the fan fics prove that.

[@PenumbralVT]

I've always thought that the reason shirou works so well in fanfics (I'm also a fanfic addict dw) is for two main reasons - you don't need to try and justify his involvement in the plot - for a lot of characters you need to hamfist some random reason why the mc would get involved in the plot/relationships of a new set of characters but with shirou and his whole obsessed heroism it sort of comes naturally and works to move the plot along - Shirou's tracing is the perfect ability to explore and interact with other worlds - I think I said this in the vid (I honestly can't remember its been like 4 months) but one of the best things about tracing is how well it lets the author interact with the lore of the world in a interesting way, it also means shirou can kind of be as strong or as weak as you want without it feeling undeserved As far as fanfic recs, rn I'm reading 'another heaven', 'son of the blacksmith' and 'sword and shield' which are pretty solid stories - chaos theory, from fake dreams and any of gabriels blessings stories are also pretty goated

[@ASNS117Zero]

@@PenumbralVT From Fake Dreams is too damn long. It's at 1.2 million words and that madlad Third Fang still hasn't finished it yet. Since we're doing recommendations - Hearts of True Steel by Ray O'Neill, Heroes Dreams and Destiny by Lord of Penguin, and Fate: Reach Out by Vegeta the 3rd are all outstandingly good. Other good recommendations are Godslaying Bladeworks by Marcus Galen Sands, A Demon Lord's Hero by Fahad09, and Right Place, Wrong War by Mundatorem. Though in the case of the first two, they're both really long *AND* deadfics, so go into that knowing that you're getting an incomplete story. Actually, so is Heroes Dreams and Destiny, but it isn't as absurdly long, so it's not such an investment in a story that's probably never going to finish.

[@dominicmorales6800]

@@PenumbralVT Another thing that people tend to forget is that, depending on which Shirou route they use, he has in his possession some incredible weapons. UBW Shirou fought Archer and acquired his memories and experience throughout the fight. And if someone wants a pinch of drama with their Shirou they get Heaven’s Feel Shirou and the baggage he’s lugging around. Something about Shirou’s distortion makes people want to root for him. He’s a far more entertaining hero/protagonist than someone like Deku just based on the fact that Midoriya could’ve lived his life as a normal person. Shirou doesn’t get that opportunity due to fire burning everything. He MUST be a hero because that’s the only thing that can make him feel any sort of happiness.

[@SentinalSlice]

I think the best explanation for Deku’s motivation is that he grew up in a world where being a Hero was a highly advertised and highly acclaimed job. Heck in the later seasons we see that the Hero commission even hides the bad sides to heroes, so it’s like being in a propaganda filled world with super heroes.

[@eldenlean5221]

Thats why the vigilante arc was so disapointing for me. Deku had every reason to experience real personal turmoil over the current heroic societal model, that was the entire point of the arc. It was the perfect moment to see deku trully confront the issues of hero society in a personal way, yet we dont really see that. I think thats why some people are worried that the story will never really adress the societal problems and instead resort to one for all as an escape goat.

[@djt3332]

@@eldenlean5221 I disagree for one the current heroic societal model had just collapsed the point of the arc was to show how flawed deku's view on heroism is. the show never has a stance on if the people who quit being are hero are good or bad just that there not hero's however deku is the overside. the vigilante arc is more simlar to the piont fate was trying to make about being hero which it's all good saving over people but if you can't save your self then are you really a hero. It is drawing a circle around deku's character flaw and going no matter what if you don't care about your self you can't save other people. it's why the arc start's with muscular one of time deku was punished from this behaviour but didn't learn from it. lady nagante through what she was doing was what she wanted to do however like deku she wasn't taking care of self she became what she thought people need her to be not what she wanted to be. then overall devoted his life to achieve what he think's his bosses gaol was while completing ignoring and doing the opposite of what his boss wanted which is deku's and allmight's realtionship in the vigilantly arc and why he is there.

[@Patrick-tg6wm]

Tbh, what i like about Fate is the Fact, The anime an VN is already many years old. But the fact the Anime is still being talk to till this day really showed How amazing the Character writing is. Shirou is the best btw

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

cuz anime is made recently

[@SanzuRiver]

i swear the world building is another aspect to it. learning more about the nasuverse is like taking multiple lines of coke and still wanting more

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

@@QWERTY-gp8fd Did you read the comment man? They said it's old xd, plus you can look up and see it was made in 2006

[@QWERTY-gp8fd]

@@Fermin-hw5pd b1tch the latest fate anime was made in 2021 and strange fake is coming.

[@Gilgamesh97C]

"I am the Hero of my Ideals
Heroism is my Body and Saving those in front of me is my Blood.
I have created over a Thousand Ideals,
Have withstood Criticism to save many Lives
Yet those Ideals will never protect Myself .
So, as I Pray-- 
Unlimited Heroic Works"

[@DaniG._.German]

In MHA there is a quirkless vigilante. His name is Knuckleduster. All for One stole his quirk, but he kept up the hero work. A mere human fighting villains and sometimes heroes who get in his way. Deku could have learned martial arts. This is Japan: Kyokushin Karate, Judo, Kendo, Kenjutsu and so forth. He could have become a detective, private or police, or become a vigilante.

[@yxvngtony3721]

Facts

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

Now I wonder how Midoriya would act if he were to ever meet Shirou. It would be a pretty interesting conversation.

[@GBlockbreaker]

depends on which version of Shirou, Shirou from the middle of the Fate route, they might get along well though Midoriya would probably yell at him for not valuing himself, Miyuverse Shirou after Sakura's death? they'd probably end up killing each other

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@GBlockbreaker Why would Midoriya and Miyuverse Shirou kill each other? This Shirou sole reason to do the things he did was to save Miyu, his sister. I think Midoriya woul rather want to help him in some way. And Midoriya is not one to value himself much during difficult situations. He's not on Shirou levels, but he's pretty reckless at times.

[@GBlockbreaker]

@@murilopenagoncalves3831 they would kill each other because Miyuverse Shirou is actively going to destroy the entire world and kill everyone in it, Midoriya had a similar situation with Eri but in Shirou's case the destruction of the world is already inevitable, people are already dying and instead of trying to find a way to save everyone, Shirou actively chooses to destroy the world for her sake, he really becomes a villain for the Hero of Justice Julian You don't think Midoriya would be worried about Shirou if he witnessed his self-destructive way of saving people?

[@murilopenagoncalves3831]

@@GBlockbreaker Valid response. But I don't think Midoriya would approve of what Julius is doing to Miyu. He would see it as no different then Eri. So he while he might attempt to stop Shirou once or twice, he might actually help him in saving Miyu. Besides, with the world in disarray, his hands would be full. Of course he would be worried. Most people would. But it might show him how his own actions affects others.

[@davidj.medinag.6524]

It would be more or less the same relation that Shirou has with Saber, but with no mana transfer (maybe). They probably spend a lot of time trying to make sure that the other take care of thenselves while neglecting their own security until they reach an understanding.

[@alfredhigglestein2828]

Great vid, in case you couldn't tell from my profile pic, I'm a big emiya simp as well, and a big fan of deku too. I think I liked deku simply for his selflessness and heroism, but it wasn't until the later arcs in the manga that I feel his character was finally tested and fleshed out. I still think Emiya is the goat, but I do hope these next few seasons of mha help to improve deku's character

[@PenumbralVT]

From what I know of the source material I'm hopeful for the direction that dekus character is gonna head

[@alfredhigglestein2828]

@@PenumbralVT I think it's something similar to shirou like you mentioned, his desperation to prove himself along with his admiration for all might leads to his self sacrificial nature, and so this new arc pushes that way of living to the test, especially when Deku has to carry hero society on his back alone now

[@weaving_that]

I agree with everything except the comparison between Shirou and Izuku's training. I think that comparing them is unfair due to a simple fact, Emiya Shirou is not human. Izuku was a more or less normal boy with normal worries, he likes normal things and a slightly higher than average level of empathy. His dreams were totally shattered over and over again by each and every person he has known and lived through her entire life not only without any support as far as his dreams are concerned, but also without friends for the case. Have you heard of the spoon theory? Izuku not only has few spoons due to his low self-esteem, but he also has to deal with bullies constantly taking spoons from him. Expecting him to have the energy to train on top of all that, stay positive and chase his dreams is unreasonable at all. Hell that he still wants to be a hero deep down is already weird. Izuku still has his mother, just being a hero fan is a good hobby, making friends and having a future in a support company there are still options available to him, unlike a certain human-shaped sword, being a hero it MUSN'T to be the center of his life. Shirou in change is mentally destroyed, he has nothing beyond the vague hope of reaching a minimum of happiness in his miserable and empty existence. We're talking about the guy who bathed in all the ills of humanity and came out basically unscathed. The same one who injected himself with an eternity of memories of a being so above himself that he's not even funny and lived to tell about it. . He was eight years old and he already tortured himself every day with the equivalent of red hot rods in his spine without complaint. To top it off, he didn't really live a bad life, he often got into fights when he was little, but nothing special. Probably the only protagonist as broken as Shirou is Kamijou Touma and I think Touma is worse.

[@thatlat5831]

Yeah Shirou is a different kind of a beast in Hallow Ataraxia he basically corrupts Angra Mainyu when he gets possessed by him which is hilarious but also scary because of Shirou's distortion

[@overlord5032]

​@@thatlat5831 you do not possess shirou shirou possesses you

[@SanzuRiver]

Wdym Shirou is not human? unless you're talkin after he gets pumlbed like a rag doll through timelines like in CCC or beoming something else entirly by the 2 routes

[@weaving_that]

@@SanzuRiver It is in a figure sense. I mean that his way of thinking is not human or at least really out of the ordinary.

[@weaving_that]

@Richmond Manga Actually he almost abandoned him. I think guilt was his most important trigger in this particular case. Trying to save Shigaraki seems to me rather more like psychopaths.

[@dreadnightdew6225]

It's interesting to watch this video after the MHA manga ended, it feels most criticisms presented towards Deku in this video can still be applied until the very end. Honestly it's just a difference in writing priority and themes, Shirou's heroism is always criticized but Deku is already the ideal hero. It's why Deku's ideal is not really challenged because he is already right by the narrative. Like how both Shirou and Deku has a savior complex, but for Shirou he always gets scolded by Saber and Rin however for Deku he actually inspires people with it. The trauma by the fire of fuyuki is the main driving for Shirou's heroism fueled by guilt. But Deku's recklessness in the first episode is rewarded by being given the strongest power in the series. That's why Deku never really grows as a character because the writer, the narrative believes he is already right. He's basically given a flat character as if he's like Luffy or Goku when everything about his character concept begging for a proper character development. But it's not so it just makes Deku a frustrating MC to follow.

[@NoMoreWhat-Ifs]

Fun Fact: The Swords in the UBW Reality Marble aren't solely functional, they're also symbolic for Archer and Shirou respectively. For Shirou, each sword represents how many times he has to die to save everyone. For Archer, each sword represents how many times he has to kill to save everyone.

[@betterdevils8734]

Similarly, one could say that for Archer, they are graves of everyone who has died in an eternal war. A war that he as a counter guardian is forced to participate in to protect humanity. For Shirou, it's the inverse. More like monuments of the wishes of the people, both heroes and not, soldiers and civilians, that there is a light at the end of their suffering. It's dreams and hopes that there is an end. This also mirrors the Fire of Fuyuki since for Archer he always remembers the deaths where Shirou always remembers their cries for help.

[@zaki7583]

I love this video so much. You clearly understand who shirou is as a character and what kind of person he is, everything you said was the simple truth and i love that you mentioned that his greatest reason for being a hero is because of a selfish desire to be happy. I honestly think the nasuverse can do even more things with shirou's character and that his story could be continued but sadly my boy died and became just a cameo for nostalgia or a quick reference for fan to be like "oh! They mentioned him!" Only for it to move on to the next scene. Hell they've been using RIN more than him and they are supposed to be an inseparable duo after ubw which is usually the world their use for their spin-offs like strange fake and the el-malloi series. I also love the idea that shirou will help you with your personal problems In anyway he can but he's clumsy in doing it because he's still a sword at heart and dealing with emotions is a tricky thing for him. He doesn't think like a normal human and so dealing with certain situations can be difficult

[@PenumbralVT]

I love my boy shirou, he's such a unique main character in that even as a reader you can tell he's absolutely screwed up in the head and yeah I feel like his character is so easy to misunderstand - a lot of anime only fate fans tend to lump him in with the generic "gotta save people" protagonist when in actuality he's more a deconstruction of that trope

[@ssjokg4952]

@@PenumbralVT And yet the same fans will go crazy if Deku tries to save a literal psychopath because "that's what heroes do.". Many anime onlies really just dont pay attention. Just look at the argument Shirou and Archer have at the temple. Shirou is mad that Archer let Caster go. Archer says some BS. Everyone's take is that Shirou doesnt want to kill anyone and even save his enemies....when the entire scene started because Shirou was pissed at Archer for not killing Caster.

[@yxvngtony3721]

Shirou is alive tho?

[@zaki7583]

@@yxvngtony3721 he definitely is, I meant that story wise nasu will never use him past being a supporting character or just a cameo.

[@ssjokg4952]

@@zaki7583 as a material for the authors he is done.

[@kookiekommenter]

I like both series and I basically agree with this video. Deku is a perfectly fine main character with good moments of conflict and growth, he just doesn't have the extra complexity and compelling character writing to make him top tier. I sometimes feel that the My Hero story is cramped and limited by how it focuses on first year high school characters and specifically Deku, with no time skip to fast forward to a more experienced and changed Deku. I'm especially feeling this more late in the series. Maybe I just want something that the series isn't aiming to give, and that's fine. On the other hand, I'm incredibly attached to Shirou as a main character. Nasu does introspective character writing really well, and this is so important for a story that we spend almost entirely in Shirou's head. He's willing to write about the more uncomfortable and not-pretty aspects of human psyches, for both Shirou and main characters of his other stories, and that's part of what makes them so memorable. Have you read Tsukihime yet? Shiki is also a great main character on par with Shirou, and the VN remake has incredible production value as a bonus. The first route of the remake has been fully translated. The other route is accessible in English via machine translation, but the fan translation team is working on it too.

[@PenumbralVT]

I've not jumped into Tsukihime yet, but I'm familiar with the setting from my exposure to type moon lore as a whole I'll likely give it a read once it's fully translated

[@abrawolf]

Witch on the Holy Night is also really good, and it actually has an official English translation. It made Aoko one of my favorite characters ever, plus soujiro is a very interesting take on that one bland anime character since we get a look into his head and how he thinks

[@armandomendoza7371]

@@abrawolf Soujuurou is simple something else man, he is really good, and Mahoyo as a whole is imo Nasu's Magnum Opus, i'm already afraid of how the anime will turn out

[@abrawolf]

@@armandomendoza7371 I love soujirou as a character and he brings a lot of balance to aoko and Alice, I'm just afraid people will see him as some no minded self insert

[@Fermin-hw5pd]

Is Shiki really on par with Shirou? I can't say I remember as much character growth with him, maybe on Ciel's route, I'm probably misremembering because it's been a while... I still have to play Mahoyo, and seeing how well people place it, I look forward to it

[@abbadon9693]

One person that actually is Quirkless and is still a hero/vigilante is Knuckleduster from My Hero Academia: Vigilantes. He's pretty much a normal dude that's basically Batman without the wealth and a bit less of a genius.

[@phantomblade7954]

Not only that but he used to have a quirk and was a official hero, O'Clock. Dude got his quirk stolen, and was forced to retire, and learned a whole new style of fighting to become a vigilante

[@barbatosmcmurderton4209]

Except, wasn't it mentioned at one point that he is abusing painkillers to keep in action?

[@phantomblade7954]

@@barbatosmcmurderton4209 I believe so. Afterall even with intensive training, one cannot fully close the gap with mutant type quirks. he even had to restart his own heart at one point from the heavy damage.

[@supworld8963]

As a shirou simp we must also understand how much of a doormat shirou can be with his ideas of helping, cause he has literally become both a repairman and errand boy to his classmates.

[@jakariashafin8685]

Man I didn't expect to find such an awesome video Great job dude. Shirou emiya is one of my favourite characters ever if not my all time favourite character,I always wondered how his ideology could be compared to something like mha where being a hero is a literal job.

[@symmetry8049]

Fate, UBW, Heaven's feel. And oath under snow. I know its not part of the original VN, but it's seriously my favorite incarnation of Shiro. In HF Shiro decides to save one person instead of the world. And yet in the end despite that, he gets his happy ending. He saves Sakura, beats the villain and protects the world, etc. OuS and the whole Miyuverse plotline in Prisma illya however shows the opposite. Once again Shiro chooses an individual over the larger world. And he does manage to save her, but not much more. He loses his final battle, gets taken prisoner by the bad guys, and were it not for the plot of the main PI series, he would have rotted there for the rest of his life while the world crumbled around him.

[@tsurugi5]

oath under snow shirou is a watered down hf shirou that removes all the nuance and morally grey parts that the vn counterparts had What if you removed the fire from Shirou's origin? What if you removed the perfect, idealized version of Kerry from Shirou's origin? What if you tried to to a weird paraphrased version of Heaven's Feel, but instead of having conflict and struggle, you remove all that? Seriously, in HF, Shirou is presented with a situation where there's a possibility that Sakura is responsible for killing people around the city, and the conflict comes in whether or not killing her is right. Inaction can lead to more deaths, so there's pressure. In Prisma, there's this sort of vague possibility that Miyu can be used to "save" the world, but Shirou has to kill her. Inaction changes nothing, the world keeps turning no matter what, but action only gives a potential answer where the threat of the world can be saved. The struggle here is far more obvious and less nuanced.

[@deathoftheoldme8645]

I honestly like both these mcs but shirou just is that guy he is like the most inspirational mc I’ve ever had the chance of watching/reading. I read the visual novel like last year and LORD I was so shocked how cool bro is 😭don’t get me started on archer omg

[@littlekuribohimposte]

Deku is simpler in his motivations but hat makes him a little esier to follow.He's our window into this world, and having a imple quirk over something technical helps us grab onto the idea more easily, and his skillset grows over time to more smart uses. Like his Air Force gloves or using Blackwhip Froppy Style. Fate however has that barrier that's hard to crack. There's a wall between the viewer and the immersion of the story. Because Rin's not a great PoV character in the prologue as a popular girl with magic for days. But there is some hhuman connection a reader can make. Shirou is, as you said, Batshit insane. There's zero way any real functional human can connect with him on any real level. If you're cold, he will go sell his own blood to buy you a sweater.

[@whale8174]

Yeah but that doesn't mean that Dekh can't be a more complex character with depth just because he is our POV in the show. I'm fairly certain even before the show came out, most people will understand the premise of a superhero society since it has been done before.

[@misteris2385]

@@whale8174 Agreed. Both are complex on their own, however most viewers are only looking at the superficial front the two have. Some would say they're the same because both would want to be a hero. But in truth, the two are quite very different. You just need to look deeper.

[@machiyukirei2812]

I have to say, the thing with shirou is the fact that we see 40 or so canonical bad endings where he dies or messes up too bad to fix things. Most of these are due to his ideals, refer to the HF bad end where he lets sakura die. But yeah, the fact that he loses so much even when everything goes right makes him even more likeable and respectable.

[@hola9775]

As i understand it, as a child Deku admired All Might and wanted to be like him. But the UA Deku said that he wanted to be a hero to save people with a smile, thinking of the safety of others. Very good video and very well explained

[@PenumbralVT]

Hey thanks - yeah deku at UA definitely shifted from idolizing all might to wanting to be a hero that saves people with a smile, his early villain encounters did shape his character that way which is pretty cool

[@phagesuffersatgaming.3797]

>Shirou >Put Muramasa on the thumbnail

[@aljedmarlflores7261]

True af

[@JohnShepherd117]

It’s still Shirou’s body and it’s a cool shot

[@JohnShepherd117]

@@aljedmarlflores7261 not really he’s using Shirou’s body and even uses Shirou’s UBW as for personality he says he’s not Muramasa it’s confusing but I think he’s saying he’s Shirou if he lived the life of Muramasa or vice versa

[@aljedmarlflores7261]

Muramasa was literally made as a fanservice for F/SN nostalgia, but personality-wise he's not even Shirou.

[@aljedmarlflores7261]

​@@JohnShepherd117 well I can't ignore the fact that Muramasa thinks the owner of his body (Shirou) may be his descendant. You can't summon pseudo-servants if they are not compatible to each other.

[@sanstheblaster2626]

"Fun" fact. The author actually planned to make Deku quirkless originally. This honestly makes his character even more disappointing, because the author probably thought he wasn't capable of actually creating a strong hero that fights without quirks, even though he clearly is. That whole thing about All Might not thinking quirkless people could be heroes was also originally much more important. What a waste...

[@MyVanir]

I mean, the author was right there - quirkless Izuku managing to beat superhumans would require mountainloads of asspulling and twisting the writing to fit that goal, which would be a rather shit manga that would probably get axed before 50 chapters.

[@sanstheblaster2626]

@@MyVanir it wouldn't tho: he would still have gadgets. It would have been way more intresting to see Deku basically building his Quirk throughout with very limited, small scale abilities obtained via gadgets. He could also take even more inspiration from professionals, because he would try to emulate THEIR gadgets, so his notes would so be a much bigger part of the story, as they would basically be blueprints for Hatsume to use.

[@delaware5407]

@@sanstheblaster2626 And? If in a training, Iida kicked him by accident, Deku would be liquified without a quirk

[@sanstheblaster2626]

@@delaware5407 oh yeah, totally. Just like Iida destroyed every other character without a close range quirk, like Stain for example.

[@delaware5407]

@@sanstheblaster2626 You know people born with a quirk are genetically super-humans while Deku is anormal human, right?

[@Alix12]

This is a really good analysis, weird how there aren't even more views

[@PenumbralVT]

I'm honestly surprised it got this many since its just me talking for 20 minutes haha, the fact you liked it means a lot to me though - thanks!

[@JayasimhaMangipudi]

@@PenumbralVT Would you make a comparison between Touma Kamijou and other characters? (If you do make it, read the LN as the anime producers did not understand his character)

[@JayasimhaMangipudi]

@@PenumbralVT Shirou also first wanted to be a lawyer, I think.

[@PenumbralVT]

@@JayasimhaMangipudi I'm actually a big toaru fan so that's definitely something I'd like to make - I actually thought about looking at different characters with nullification powers and how those powers can either be pretty cool (touma) or basically just ruin the magic system of the show (glenn from akashic)

[@ArtanBlacknight]

6:06 I am going to disagree with Issei here. He acts heroic because of love mascarading as perversion, he may say its for boobs but its apparent he loves and respects Rias. Not the deepest motivation but Denji had the same motivation and when compared to Bakugou, being a hero for being the best vs being a hero for love is about on the same level

[@chris007ssundee6]

My boi issei is da goat

[@paulwin9036]

One thing I love about Shirou's character is the story's portrayal of his mental illness. His heroicism is based on an unhealthy obsession to "save people" to the point where he destroys his own life and the people around him(Archer timeline). Not many heroic tales show how detrimental a life like that would be, and how broken of a man you'd have to be to move on eith such a mindset. It's one of the reasons why FSN felt more like an antithesis to a typical heros jouney, and why it feels so unique and fresh even to this day.

[@nightwolfnordberg9476]

Can it be clasifeid as mental illness?

[@paulwin9036]

@nightwolfnordberg9476 It's called PTSD and survivors guilt

[@heyyou9472]

my extremely watered down analytical perception of these two in my head are as follows: one is trying really hard to see how he can best follow the ideals of who i can only describe as just Spider-Man, and the other is like playing as a blue phantom from dark souls but you can summon him anywhere in fiction and it could probably work for the plot (the fan fics put him everywhere jesus.... and they WORK. SOMEHOW.)

[@NimmelTheGreat]

This was actually really good. You should try for a few more videos like this and see if it picks up, you have good voice for it and you pretty clearly know how to know what you're talking about without coming off as dry or dull. If it's in your area of interest then I would be down to see more like this from you.

[@PenumbralVT]

I have a few video ideas similar to this, I might make a few of them as a side project and see how people like them - thanks for the kind words man

[@wadspaste]

As a fan of MHA I can agree about how disappointed I was at the beginning of the show. I thought that Deku would get a chance to be a hero in spite of not having any quirk. And we kinda got a taste of that in the first season, when he won the Tournament Race with his ideas and stamina alone. And that was awesome and a very hype moment. I still like MHA now, even the ending is getting complicated and rushed, but the idea of a hero without quirks and just their ideals and training could have been great. Also, your voice is more than fine for voiceovers. This was the first video i've watched from your channel and it was great! Keep it up!

[@Neutral_1zed]

My take on this is the philosophy of heroism is different between Fate and MHA, MHA’s idea of a hero is someone who challenges a threat wherever whenever in order to protect others no matter who they are. Fate’s idea of a hero is someone who sacrifices everything for everyone else. The former is heroic and the latter is more tragic, but I’d adhere more to Fate’s philosophy.

[@wilfordpadio1896]

Heroic spirits are not simply heroes. They are people who changed an era or who has a big influence to that era. jack the ripper for example, she is a heroic spirit but her background is a psychopath.

[@net_spider]

People can have a big impact on our way of thinking, especially as you grow up and mature from being a child. You are raised by your parents who try to impart their morals and values on you as you grow up... though you also see first hand if they actually live up to them or how that actually affects them. You might have a role model you look up to, a "villain" that shows you how bad the world can be, a friend who helped you, or a rival who pushed you to be more than you are. More often than not, a combination of people will influence you as you grow, either directly or indirectly. Some will influence you more than others and rarely (but more common than you think) one will stand above the rest and have the biggest impact by far. All Might is that person to Deku. Its not as farfetched as it seems as many people do try to emulate their role models as much as they can as they grow up and many will succeed. That kid, inspired by their late father's heroics as a firefighter, decides to become one as they grow up. A family of police officers is formed because the children want to be like their parents. Being interested in famous athletes as children have driven many to become the same. Yes, people do change and many will develop away from their childhood dreams or have radically different, more complex reasons for following through with their goals, but that doesn't mean its unrealistic or uncommon for people to have extremely similar aspirations to their child self, nor that they can't have altruistic reasons to further those goals.

[@Angras_advocate18]

Godly vid!! Definitely going to my “type-moon essay” playlist.

[@marxel4444]

One of the greatest heroes could be Luffy from One Piece. Because he doesnt want to be one. He wants to be a pirate. Beeing a hero means sharing all the good stuff like meat with others and he WANTS ALL THE MEAT FOR HIMSELF! And then he rocked up in fishland island they asked him if he will be their savior or their doom and he just says " Friends or Foes? That's something... You'll have to decide on your own!"

[@net_spider]

Kinda curious how "wants to help people because they genuinely want to," is a bad motivation/not a motivation? I'm kinda getting the sense that you don't believe in selfless motivations. Its fine, because I really don't either, as I think no decision can be truly selfless. Even "selfless" decisions have motivations behind them that cater to the person making them, even if its as base as "I help people because it feels good / makes me happy". Its simple, but not bad and technically not immoral. Its not for no reason however, as altruistic reasoning still have solid motivations behind them in my opinon. This lines up with Shirou to a T, as some people try to define themselves through what they can do for others (yes, he's very much "damaged," but I don't think he's insane for being that way) and falls in line with Deku for his motivation.

[@aquaos]

It is characters like the Emiyas and videos like this that keeps me hopeful for the nature of heroes. This is a superb video on my favorite character of all time and thank you

[@Kukinno07]

One of the things I hate about mha is that instead of going for the primary message of "even if you're different you can achieve your dreams" they decided to make the mc someone who's basically like everyone else, he tells us himself that all men are not created equal, I personally think not giving any effort because of that is bullshit

[@Etch..]

This… this makes me happy, as someone who is entrenched in both MHA & Fate, it’s great to see someone compare the two

[@PenumbralVT]

Glad you liked the video man! Shirou's one of my favourite protagonists so I really just wanted an excuse to talk about him for 20 minutes haha

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@@PenumbralVT I absolutely love the visual novel and how it breaks down Shirou's character in each route. HF Shirou is one of my favorite versions due to how they break down his ideals to the point he decides to throw it away

[@PenumbralVT]

Yeah I love how they take his Ideals to their extremes to show how they'll always conflict with the people he loves - very similar to kiritsugu at the end of fate zero

[@aiogiming9727]

@@PenumbralVT do all might and kiritsugu

[@otakuverse8545]

You do gotta admit most of the Mha villans do have stupid Motivation especially Chisakis I didn't understand his character at all. And I'm glad you brought up the fact Allmight stated in the beginning of the episode when he said he couldn't become hero and yet some how Deku immediately took the power without no hesitation after that like what. It would have been cool to see Deku prove Allmight wrong and despise him a bit as he becomes a quirkless hero. And your so in depth with these Charcters its astonishing that you put so much research into there respective ideals, goals and personalities. And for all that hard work I'm subscribing

[@colorx6030]

Hmm, I'll first admit that I didn't watch everything but I just really wanted to mention that if the basis of comparison for this is Deku until S5, then I believe that it wouldn't really do Deku much justice since S6 Deku is where we finally get to see just how far Deku's "heroism" is. Spoilers alert, don't read more if you haven't caught up to MHA. It was actually revealed that Deku has an obsession in saving people. Now, I'm not entirely sure if this is true but whatever it is, I believe that this comparison (Shirou vs. Deku) would have (relatively) more substance had it included this in mind.

[@easymodex9400]

Ultimately Deku is a very vanilla Saturday morning cartoon shounen hero protagonist. He's the exact same as Naruto. Poor sob story kid that's weak but wants to make everyone happy or whatever, then gets some inheritance / revelation / power up to make it happen. Insert random plot ups and downs. Shirou, on the other hand, is a fully-fledged seinen protagonist with a hero complex -- but his complex is completely deconstructed and Nasu very thoroughly illustrates that (particularly in the VN). A true, real "hero complex" only makes sense for people that are psychologically impaired. To make this actually *work*, Shirou is written with huge PTSD, guilt, a memory + soul reset, and inherited naive "will" from Kiritsugu. All of that comes together to create Shirou's mentality, and really gets super highlighted at the end of the VN Fate route under the church. Many people have sufficiently pointed out how "illogical" Deku's behavior is when it comes to things like "I want to be a hero, so I will not train or practice or do any shit required to make it happen" or some shit. His mentality starts there and ends there. Naruto is a similar example -- "I want to be Hokage lulz, to get acknowledgement from people so let's goo! Haha! I'll become Hokage by painting graffiti haha!" E.g. both are unrealistic dumbasses, but hey that's kid's logic there. The key is that for a Saturday morning cartoon shounen protag, you don't need anything else. The whole "source" logic for their mentality does not matter. It's just an excuse to get the story started and it does not need to make clear sense. It's just a plot lever to *give* the protag some motivation, regardless of how it's actually logical or whether the same goal can be accomplished in more coherent ways. Shounen is shounen for a reason. Shirou has a full background mentality and logic and Nasu makes things very clear -- if you are a real normal human being, a full hero complex requires a *mental impairment* or *broken psychology*. The VN is built with the very foundation of highlighting how "pretty and idealistic" his ideas are (especially with the sisyphus scenes that get all the girls) while simultaneously beating the shit out of his ideals with reality, or changing / evolving his ideals to something more coherent. The story of Shirou is about someone *who is growing up*. It also paints a message for the reader -- that a reader who has similar ideas should also grow up and be more realistic on how or why to be a hero, and not just try to be a Saturday morning variety.

[@jeronimoseverin8726]

nice video! I'd add how not just archer but almost all character help shitou's ideals to develop. For example, when you mentioned Kiritsugu, one of the most important phrases that I'd add is "To save one person means not being able to save another" or Kirei with "A hero of justice requires a villain to defeat". Even Rin and Saber, they aren't villains that confronts his ideals, yet, Rin telling him that he is batshit insane and he's to learn to enjoy life, or saber when she wants to change the past and Shirou refuses that idea are important to his development

[@helenfotopoulou5125]

It's extremely telling that the majority of My Hero Academia fanfiction is build on "what if" scenarios of Izuku either having a quirk from the beginning, or deciding to go down a different route after meeting All Might. Quirkless Vigilante Deku is one of the most popular MHA fanfic types out there.

[@Prime_Legend]

I think the SETTING of my hero academia is what really drags down Deku's heroism. We don't see his heroism challenged enough because of the heroes/villains setting. But I think what makes Shirou more compelling isn't inherently of his character, but his world and setting. Fate doesn't take place in a hero/villain society, so his impulsive self destructive ideals are INCREDIBLY CHALLENGED, both by other characters and the world itself.

[@demo0831]

being given an opportunity is different from having everything handed too you on a silver platter. it may have been made for him but he still had to follow it too a tea. and even then he didnt. He actively overworked himself and trained constantly to surpass almights set goal. Even after earning the quirk he still couldnt use it without functionally becoming worthless. Having to find an innovative and gutsy way to use it without harming himself to the point of uselessness. He has actively worked for the power he was given. because thats the nature of one for all. it can only be used to its fullest extent by him training and becoming strong enough to handle it. Its a reward not just a gift. Earned not given. It was an opportunity certainly but Izuku had to take it.

[@entropyOTD]

Honestly, I'm fairly certain the author's side series "vigilante" is who he wanted Deku to be, someone who fights using tools and technique and junk, and THEN he gets the powers from All Might, supplementing his combat with inventions and martial arts before resorting to big punchie, but I'd bet the producers he was pitching to, the ones that tried to force him to change All Might where he instead just kept upping the details, wanted Deku to be a bland easy to overwrite with your own ideals type of character. From the stories I heard of what they try to change, they sound pretty basic.

[@danielguhde-egger1334]

No, this is a great voiceover. Also your idea is actually pretty good, Deku can be very boring at times and has his ideals never questioned

[@radicool21]

10:00 "maybe a vigilante if he didn't get into the school" - funny you mention that, since there's a spinoff called MHA Vigilantes which is actually a fantastic series with a MUCH better main character than deku. It takes place slightly prior to MHA with its own cast, and I highly recommend it.

[@venlight5296]

Honestly wanna say love your videos man and your voice isn't half bad don't be to hard on yourself

[@PenumbralVT]

That's super nice to hear man, glad you're enjoying the vids

[@fuzzie6299]

Deku actually has a very interesting motivation for wanting to be a hero. Since he grew up Quirkless, with the only person available to look up to being All Might, he basically got hooked on heroes. I just assume that eventually, he became to adopt some of their mannerisms, for better or for worse. Because him emulating All Might is pretty great once you realize that it means he'll do anything barring murder to basically save everyone, even if it means damning himself to a terrible fate... On the other hand, it means he's just as reckless. Deku doesn't understand that All Might's ideals aren't healthy. Nor does he understand that striving for them is not something that really anyone should attempt to do so. All Might is a prime example of what happens when you sacrifice too much of your humanity for someone else's sake. Deku doesn't get called out for this until 1-A decides to intervene and 'help him.' This means that for the duration of the manga, Deku was trying (failing) to strike a balance between self-preservation and living up to the expectation that All Might has set up for him. Bakugo, Todoroki, and arguably, Shinso's goals are not really more interesting than Deku's. They're just more appealing depending on if you value characters that are more selfish rather than heroic. Being the 'best' is not a goal that many people would like to strive for. Nor is... whatever the heck Todoroki is trying to do (annoying your dad isn't that great of a goal). They don't have inherently better motives than Deku, they're just less heroic. Being the best or proving a certain group of people is an amazing goal in their own right... it's just not what Deku's about. Not having them doesn't make him bland, it actually sets him apart from a lot of shonen MCs. Most shonen MCs are very selfish. Goku's a pretty decent guy, but even he admits he's no hero, as he fights for his own reasons. You could technically argue the same with Ichigo, but I digress. Very few, if any, make it their priority to save as many lives as possible for the sake of the greater good, to the point that they're willing to sacrifice themselves like Deku or Shirou. In a way, you could say that Deku's motives are very simplistic, but in a sense, every goal is more or less simplistic. It's how a character achieves them that makes them interesting or complex. Naruto's goal to become the Hokage was littered with thorns, just as Goku's goal to become the strongest is something that he'll probably never achieve. They're simple on paper, but when it comes to execution, it's why these manga goes on for so long since there are tons of ways you could explore Deku's ideals. I know the series actively goes out of its way to portray Deku as bland, but very his personality is interesting. Very few people in the world of My Hero are as selfless and nice as Deku. His mannerisms are kind of unique to himself, as his stuttering and social anxiety are habits developed from years of emotional abuse from his peers. Even in some of his lesser-known aspects, Deku is a fairly intricate character that just needed a little bit more exploration on Horikoshi's part to be potentially the best shonen protagonist that Jump has seen in years (not that he isn't already close to that).

[@Kermitthepablopuebes]

Hey nice Shirou pfp I think the problem lies not in Deku but to Horikoshi's writing himself. In our eyes, Deku's Heroism is a tragedy because it's self destructive, but to Horikoshi portrays it as a very good thing. Instead of avoiding it, he promotes it. And there's also the fact that Deku hasn't failed as of yet.

[@fuzzie6299]

@@Kermitthepablopuebes Well, until recently, the hero society in MHA was doing pretty well. I don't think a deconstruction of why Deku's actions were incredibly reckless and damaging to his mental health would fit in any other arc than the Vigilante arc since that's where everything comes back to haunt him. There are also small instances where the audience can clearly tell, even before season six, that Deku is not all there. His fight against Todoroki is a very prominent example because it's why he got little to no work-study offers. I don't really think it's a flaw in Horikoshi's writing, I actually think it's more of an advantage. It's more silent, which forces the audience to pay attention more. Details could easily be missed. There's always something to come back for even if you know these characters like the back of your hand. That's just the nature of character analysis. You to have a keen eye for it.

[@aiogiming9727]

shirou emiya one of the bast charecter in fate stay night vn

[@airwings064]

about deku doing no training: it is actualy stated that he didn't physicaly condition himself because of the fear of cutting his growth short deku is well aware that if you lift or train too hard as a young person you will stunt your growth and in fact most people who in his class are absolutely ripped come from a place where they trained whenn they reached 15 the point at which it is generaly accepted your muscular growth won't affect the growth of your bones and tendons P.S. too bad he didn't see the vigilantee arc

[@jemarcusq3942]

I think people are severely underestimating the constant negative reinforcement Izuku faces from society on a daily basis. 80% of the population has Quirks, with the majority of those who don't have been from the older generations. There is a slow growing caste system in MHA, and more and more, his 'condition' is being seen as a debilitating disability. (His own mother breaks down in sobbing tears and blames herself for his "condition") In a world where Quirks decide one's career, izuku will almost certainly be passed over for any opportunities regardless of how qualified he is, for someone with a Quirk- even if that Quirk isn't conductive to that job. It happens all the time IRL with race, gender, orientation, etc. His desire to be a Hero is one part of cultural biases and naivety true. But it's also an unstated desire for himself to be part of his society as someone respectable.

[@JonborgVA]

I missed when deku used his ability to study others quirks and use that against them in a fight

[@magortom]

He still does just for his own learning. 3 seasons ago he learned from Iida and changed his fighting style. Season 4 he learned from Nighteye and Lemilion, Last season he learned from Endeavor, this season he learned from Froppy, Cellophane, and Uravity. In fact this season he also learned from his last fight with Muscular and used that information to beat him in one shot using a specific weakness. It is not our fault that you do not pay attention

[@blacksheep6415]

I hate when people say midorya worked hard and earned OFA when all he did was workout for a few months so he could have the bare minimum stat requirements to hold the quirk in his body and not explode

[@finneandowney3892]

6:04 ok no. No one has a better motivation than Issei. That’s my only gripe with your otherwise incredible video.

[@thedarkwolf5637]

i think u really simplified dekus ideals there he grew up in a society that idolizes heroes and all might inspired him similar to how people fall inlove with batman and supermanvand that love never goes away coupled with him not having powers that ideal of him wanting to be a hero has been struck down by nearly everyone his entire life, his middle school with bakugo shows this the most deku who at this point has nearly given up on this dream has to save bakugos life when over people in the crowd wont or cant showing how much of a true hero he really is.

[@supermegaultahypercoolguy4327]

9:30 i know this video is old but just wanna say that yes likely impossible: In aizawa's first ever fight shown in the show he would have been gunned down instantly if he didn't use his quirk/ lot of people forget that stain's quirk was what gave him the edge on most fights. Although his dodging and bat man level acrobacy is impressive he isn't able to actually land any lot of solid hits in the fight and gains advantage only when his quirk takes effect/(don't forget that he is fighting children he likely had a much harder time with the actual pro heroes) Ok i now y'all like giving the tail man a lotta flack but given how bulky that tail is it's the equivalent of having a giant hammer attached to your ass at all times.

[@AkaRedFallen]

I have to say I rather like this video, but I have to say you seem to short-change Deku's motive on 2 points. Why does he want to be a hero? Much like Shirou, "It started out as just, admiration,", but it grew from there shortly after he found out he was quirkless. While Izuku does have a naturally kind and self-less disposition from the start, he endured 10 years of discrimination and discouragement for being one of the very few without abilities in a society where they are a point of pride and identity. From what I can see, this had a PROFOUND effect on what his childhood dream to be a hero meant to him. It wasn't just about being a hero because it was cool, because it fit with his nature. The dream of being a hero was a final fragment of his happy, carefree times as a child. Before the world became cruel, before a dear friend turned into a tormentor, before his mother showed no faith in him, before the world told him he was, essentially, a Deku, a 'Good for nothing". From my own experience growing up as "Different", won't go into how, people look at you a certain way. Adults react and speak based on these statuses, sometimes with sympathy or "understanding', but mostly as a burden and children likewise pick up on that. Bakugo was, in the first chapter, able to make Izuku tremble and use his quirk with little repercussions, that speaks to me of much WORSE bullying and trauma, likely others following Bakugo's lead either more or less physically, but no less harmfully. Now imagine, no adult at school or outside stops or tells Bakugo, or other kids, he's wrong for doing this. This also informs Izuku they aren't wrong for doing this. Izuku himself knows his mother doesn't believe in his dream, and thus any attempt he might make to; change his diet, join a gym or learn self defense, is doomed to fail. In his mind, his mother is little different from the teachers who don't care, as while she loves him, she sees him essentially the same way for his quirklessness. Again, Izuku is NOT an angry or violent character by nature, his first reaction is analysis, using his brain, when is anxieties and trauma aren't in the way. So doing physical training and such, during his 10 Quirkless years growing up before All Might? Not only NO SHOT, but if Bakugo ever found out, the beat down he got from Bakugo and his two flunkies as a kid might have been genuinely a love tap comparatively...and no one would have done a thing. My point is, for Izuku, he needed All Might as the symbol to keep himself from...well, taking Bakugo's advice from that very chapter, something I feel in the manga he was close to doing after hearing All Might himself shoot down his dream. Which leads me to another point. I won't compare apples and oranges or in this case the trauma of Shirou and Izuku, but they are fundamentally similar characters, just with different settings and plot turns. While Shirou to continue living became more machine-like and compulsively tried to help people, Izuku was pushed down and berated for clinging to his last fragment of happiness and passion. It's why he continued to hang out and even praise Bakugo, because he was clinging to what was while trying to live through what IS going on around him at the time. This same environment, paradoxically made him cling harder, to the point he let go of things like self-care, self-love, and even lost sight of how anyone could find value in him if he made even one mistake. The way early Shirou and Izuku fight is honestly eerily similar based on their limited skill sets. Both willing to take on unimaginable suffering to save, to protect, and valuing themselves so LITTLE it's comical that either feels they could just keep going and save anyone that way. In a way, both had similar if opposite responses to their respective trauma: Shirou became more a machine geared towards justice that was ephemeral undefined in a world where Heroes like what he had in mind didn't exist in the modern world (To his knowledge), an alien idea in his world. Where Izuku was a damaged, yet earnest child who clung to his dream that was embodied and real in his world to remain 'whole' to survive a world that abandoned and likely discouraged him at every turn. It's these two contrasts that make their progressions more interesting for me. Shirou himself eventually gains the use of his Magic Circuits, method depending on the Route, and his progression towards the feats and combat proficiency of Archer let him move closer to his goal of being able to truly save people, while his feelings for those close to him, as you say, keep him grounded. Meanwhile, Izuku's training under All Might at the beach, didn't just prepare his body for the Quirk he would receive (Barely), but kick-start his physical work ethic that no one had supported his entire life. Izuku again, WAS A HUGE NERD KEPT WEAK BY THE PRESSURE AROUND HIM, and in 10 MONTHS, he turned things around, realistic or not that speaks of INCREDIBLE passion, focus, and a worrying amount of NO FUCKS GIVEN about his own well being. Took All Might re-adjusting his plan to get Izuku to stop modifying it himself and setting himself back, despite Izuku's own flawed mental math saying it was better gains for training. From there similar training and events mold and slowly increase Izuku's battle proficiency, but also work on his mindset about his health and physical well-being. (Not spoiling his mental, that comes later and I'm still VERY pleased with the direction of THAT subplot). But now after that, I have to address the second point. (Yes, that was all for the FIRST point, how long will the second take? ;) ) Izuku...is not the main character of MHA. No no, it's not All Might, it's not Shigaraki, it's not Bakugo (No matter how many fans WANT it to be), and it sure as HECK ain't Mt. Lady. (Never did figure out the whole step-on-me fetish people seem to like her for.) My Hero is funny that, while we follow Izuku in his journey, it's not really his story. It's the story of this WORLD! Izuku is a character that DOES shake up and play a big part in it, but side characters, people Izuku meets, and even changes on his life's path, are just as important. Each one of them, and I have fanfcitions to "prove" it, would make for fantastic main characters too, some better than Izuku true, but that's hardly the point. The point is, My Hero is a story about Heroes, in a world where Heroes are more than those who do good and provide for the security of others. In this world their are Icons, Legends made flesh in a world that needs them to exist. And this, more than anything is why Izuku's part makes sense to see. Because everything he experiences, learns, and overcomes are things WE has the audience can see and appreciate. You said it yourself, you aren't a big Izuku fan, but you love My Hero anyway, kinda makes my point right there. Whereas Fate is a story about Shirou Emiya, My Hero is about a WORLD of Heroes, and the ones who live and grow up in it, Izuku was just the first of them. Sorry this got so long, just been trying to get my thoughts out in coherent and readable fashion(Probably failed there, but hey, I tried). If you made it this far, thanks for reading, and I hope I left something for people to think about. I rarely comments, so yeah, felt strongly about this. Also My Hero and Fate Crossover fics are my LIFEBLOOD right now, so you might get why I'm comparing. Anywho, to all who read, take care, and best of luck in life!

[@AJD558]

tldr

[@theguywhocomments5713]

Well done. I appreciate the thought you put into this.

[@fluffykitten1536]

This video was a blast, as someone who does not really know to much about either source material I found this video very entertaining and I liked your voice over

[@CarlosRivera-db8qq]

deku wanted to be a hero because he couldn't be one. that trama turned into obsession its pretty basic thing for alot of people

[@moriko-chan1059]

8:58 - 10:10 That´s why I like even Asta from Black Clover more than Deku. Asta had the same problem as Shirou and Deku but each day worked hard to make up for it with physical strength and agility.

[@j.vermilye3816]

3:08 honestly i'm more amazed you managed to summarize shirou so well

[@sammoore1704]

15:19 Stain had so much potential not just to force Deku to confront the corruption in hero society, but also because he hated popularity, while becoming a Symbol of Peace requires popularity - not only could Stain force Deku to confront the flaws with heroes he looks up to, but Deku could also help highlight the flaws with Stains ideals. Instead, Stain is defeated at the end of his first fight with Deku and gets sent to prison for half the story. I do enjoy MHA, but I just wish it took advantage of all the opportunities it has.

[@gachadan8016]

nah issei got the best reason for being a hero hehe

[@ono8954]

Pretty insightful videos, i really enjoyed this type of archetype of MC in a story. While i'm not into the fate franchise, the MC from the "a certain magical index" series Kamijou touma is also pretty interesting too as he has a "similar" type of idelogy as shirou (not to mention the fact that both got their memory erased too lmao). I hope you can get into the "index" franchise since its as intriguing as the fate franchise too, tons of characters to analize haha (and a long piece of literature too)

[@dex6872]

I’m actually currently reading the Index Light Novels right now as my first blind experience on the series. While although I’m on the deep blood arc currently, I’m loving touma. He reminds me a lot of early shirou. Also, I’m quite familiar with the Fate and Index communities both being well tied and supportive of each other (at least from my experience) Toumachads and shiroubros on top!

[@ganymedehedgehog371]

I think you don’t know enough about Naruto if you think he just wants to be a hero. Naruto was hated by the village his whole life for reasons he didn’t even know or have control over. Naruto decided besides all this he wants to make the village love him and become hokage to improve it. It’s put into contrast with sasuke that instead of hope and change he seeks revenge first against his brother and then the village. Naruto is the embodiment of its better to forgive.

[@brentramsten249]

you dont seem to understand deku at even the most basic level. he never saw being a hero as an option (its what literally everyone in his life told him, that he couldnt do it), that is why he never 'trained'. even so he wants it so bad that he flys into (what he would see) as certain death in order to save someone whos been nothing but terrible to him. he is left a sobbing wreck after all might tells him he has what it takes to be a hero (perahaps slightly undermined by his regular crying).

[@madsoulzz2087]

bruh deku should have been like a iron man type of intelligence where he would self build his own weapons or armor while practicing like shirou using all those note books in creating counters to villains or heros he would face.

[@BASSFZz]

Your analysis of Deku is really, really uncharitable. But also misunderstood. Deku as a character isn't always challenging or trying to define what a Hero is. Deku's character is about overcoming inferiority and weaknesses, even once you've been given what you've asked for. You've said a few times something akin to, "Deku just gets the hair power up and all his problems are solved." Yeah....yeah, no they're not! And thematically that's the point. Deku's character isn't about gaining a motivation, it's about gaining self respect. He built his entire life around being a Hero, only to learn he could never be one. And now that he was given the quirk he wanted, he still has to train for it, he still loses, his body gets broken to pieces for a huge chunk of the beginning of the series. The point is to highlight that getting what you wished for doesn't mean the battle is over. Deku isn't going to be the Symbol of Peace because he has the best powers. In fact, he's encouraged to think of his quirks now as tools, no longer that metric of your worth. Deku had to learn to stop idolizing heroes and to stop being inferior in his own mind. He needed to balance out his own worth against the worth of quirks. Which again, is a huge theme in My Hero in general. Deku hasn't directly confronted this theme, but you know who has...All For One. XD All For One believes solely in the Superiority of Quirks. In a way, he is both the Mirror, and the Foil to Deku. He's the mirror to Deku who once believed Quirks were the measure of your worth, but the opposite in how he's selfish and wishes to use this power for his own gain. I'm not sure how they're going to clash in the Future directly, but hopefully, those themes go head to head. But Deku isn't "uninteresting" or "boring" at all. I think you're just not paying attention to the themes he's suppose to be wrestling with.

[@PenumbralVT]

You make a good point about his main character theme being about overcoming internal self doubt and how quirks aren't the defining quality of a hero - but personally I feel like that viewpoint falls flat when Deku gets handed objectively the strongest quirk outside of One For All for pretty much no reason It's pretty similar to Rock Lee's character in Naruto - saying that hard work and self respect are the real important factors in a hero sounds nice and all but at the end of the day the final battle is gonna come down to who can nuke an area the hardest To me the biggest annoyance with Deku's character is that he never even tried - the only reason his body broke after getting the quirk is that he spent the last 14 years moping around about the fact that being a hero was impossible, and despite that after less than a year of training he's able to go toe to toe with bakugo and todoroki - people who have been training their asses off for years Again I don't think his character is bad - I think his internal battle with self doubt and confidence is interesting enough to drive the story forward - but its honestly not that unique or interesting to me when compared to what it could have been

[@BASSFZz]

@@PenumbralVT "- but personally I feel like that viewpoint falls flat when Deku gets handed objectively the strongest quirk outside of One For All for pretty much no reason" I love this so much!! I seldom get to have conversations like this!! Makes me double respect your video and thoughts. :D Okay, so I'm stealing this from Max Landis talking about Superman. And what make Superman so special is that he's just a Guy, with the best Superpowers. And rather than becoming a Dictator (Like Zak Bitch-Ass Synder wants him to be) Superman is ABOVE all of it. Deku is Special in a similar way. He now has the best super powers. BUT AGAIN, he's not suppose to be "Superior" like Lex or All For One wants to be. At this point, Deku has to balance humility with that power. He has everything he needs to win at this point, but the coming together of his victory is NOT because his powers are the best, but because of how he uses them. "It's pretty similar to Rock Lee's character in Naruto - saying that hard work and self respect are the real important factors in a hero sounds nice and all but at the end of the day the final battle is gonna come down to who can nuke an area the hardest" Hmm...I think that's the fault of the Author power scaling and trying to increase the tension and scale of the conflict. But notice something interesting. At the end of Naruto, Rock Lee is still one of the characters who holds the highest respect throughout the fanbase. I think that really says something about his themes. "To me the biggest annoyance with Deku's character is that he never even tried - the only reason his body broke after getting the quirk is that he spent the last 14 years moping around about the fact that being a hero was impossible, and despite that after less than a year of training he's able to go toe to toe with bakugo and todoroki - people who have been training their asses off for years" Well. Going Toe-To-Toe...actually still results in Deku losing. Against both of them. I think that's a very important point to consider. Again, Deku seldom ever actually achieves ANYTHING in the 1v1s. Deku's victories are team victories until Late into the series. I don't think Deku really has become the power house MC that his current powers allow him to be. Even considering that, Deku still is being helped currently in the manga. I won't spoil anything if you're not caught up to the manga. "Again I don't think his character is bad - I think his internal battle with self doubt and confidence is interesting enough to drive the story forward - but its honestly not that unique or interesting to me when compared to what it could have been" I have a different mindset about it. I don't think a story needs to be unique. I think a story needs to be executed well. And I think My Hero is doing it's job with Deku so far. I love character driven stories, so perhaps we're just different on this preference. But I love Deku. Nowhere NEAR as much as I love Shiro, but Deku is on his way there. lol I think ultimately, they wrestle with some different themes to explore. If Shiro is all about using his body to face his Ideals, then Deku is all about using his body to face his inferiority and Idolatry of heroes. I think there's a lot of learn from both characters.

[@thedothackerkeyblademaster]

​@@PenumbralVT "the only reason his body broke after getting the quirk is that he spent the last 14 years moping around about the fact that being a hero was impossible, and despite that after less than a year of training he's able to go toe to toe with bakugo and todoroki - people who have been training their asses off for years" I wouldn't be too sure about that, slight spoiler for the second movie if you haven't seen it, but we see what happens to someone who had trained their whole life uses One For All, and it broke their body just as badly as it did Izuku's. One For All is simply too powerful at this point for anybody to inherit it with no problem. And as for the fights with Bakugo and Todoroki, Deku was at a disadvantage in both of those fights, since he couldn't use One For All without severely damaging himself in the process, whereas Bakugo and Todoroki didn't have such handicaps. Izuku only "beat" Bakugo by giving Ochako a way to get to the bomb, which gave their team the victory. And with Todoroki, the fight only lasted as long as it did, because Todoroki was only using half of his power; once he started using all of it, the fight was pretty much won.

[@asmalltankengine961]

I feel that Izuku's (Deku) motivation to be a hero is to prove the world wrong and to show he has worth as a human. Since he has been bullied and kicked around (literally) since kindergarten he has no self esteem and is constantly kicking himself. He wants to save people because that has been his dream and the entire world including his idol All might told him that he can't be a hero. He has been shown to have the heart of a true hero which is the spirit of self sacrifice and Izuku has this mentality because of his lack of self esteem. Anyhow that's just my ramblings as a MHA fan

[@exodyno]

as interesting this was, I love Shirou more as a "hero" character than Deku 'cause he just goes with the pure route of being one (fate route) to the bastardized version of heroism (Emiya Alter) too. my problem with Deku was that his pursuit to heroism isn't really executed well to my eyes. The people around him and his enemies that he faced throughout his journey have more or less feel weightless. It feels dissonant. The author could've took a page out of Kamen Rider on how to present a MC who was "nothing" then gets power and goes on to his hero journey, and then being tested heavily if that heroism of his can endure and persevere in front of problems ranging from personal daily life to world threats itself. Deku on his heroic journey have changed a lot of people's lives, and that is something worth giving credit to him. But let's take a look at someone who does similar things to Deku but feels more impactful and fulfilling: Kamijou Touma a.k.a. Mister Gender Equality Fist of Moral Lecturing. Touma and Shirou share both problems and that is the anime truly downplayed a lot of their character and of similar reason too: How the mind of these two works with Shirou giving you introspective on how mentally broken of a human being he is. And Touma on how panicky this guy is with his attentive and quick decision making when fighting nightmarish enemies. Which ends up them being labeled as an immature brat and mr. plot armor respectively. Both are far from what the anime-onlys labels them. Here's my reason why Touma feels more impactful than Deku. The reason being that Touma is driven to do these heroic actions out of what his "heart" tells him to, whilst Deku's heroic reasons have more or less childishly tied from a societal standpoint. The people Touma fought and lectured have posed challenge and threat to what he believed in from having a reason to never give up on helping someone they treasure (Index Vol.01) to whether you're really needed to be there at all for these people you've helped for them to be happy (Index New Testament Vol.09). You don't really feel that with Deku 'cause he can't have the time to have it. There are many other supporting characters in BnHA that gets fleshed out more than him which results in Deku feeling more hollow alongside his villains that he needs to defeat. BnHA didn't gave us Deku going "I'm bothered." like Touma did, at the height of challenging his very self and his ideals. That depressingly, chilling speech from Kamijou Touma in New Testament is one of the best moments in my entire manga/novel/anime enjoyment. Then that got topped by his "I'm afraid." speech from Genesis Testament that portrayed on how... normal of a human Touma is. Deku never gave us that. There was no true breakdown of his own character given to us. Deku is by no means a badly written character but he ain't a fleshed out character either. His actions PALES in comparison to other characters in his own series.

[@CollinMcLean]

He's not badly written but he's not well written either, he just comes off as... basic... he was written to be projected onto but in the end he just feels incomplete.

[@raseruuu3742]

hopefully the new anime Mashle can fill that "Quirkless hero" hole in our hearts. hehehehe!

[@nicktanicosilva2582]

To be slightly fair with Shirou having a reality marbel tends to screw with ones mentality plus its technically up to the player how he's route will go in the H-novel

[@Wookiescantfly]

What makes this even funnier for me is that the entire plot of Fate Stay/Night takes place in like 2 - 3 weeks time vs MHA's 2 1/2 years (so far). For Deku's core character motivations to have not been significantly challenged in a meaningful way in that time is disappointing.

[@morganus1360]

You actually tugged on my biggest issue with MHA and Izuku himself. MHA is all about the society, not the characters. Every person introduced only matters in their capacity to show the flaws or strengths in the society. They mostly work better as representations than actual characters, even if some are more than that. Works with with a world more focused on symbology than the people behind it.

[@soulfire859]

I must provide some defense of Midoriya and the reason for his lack of training prior to receiving OFA. Fact is that Midoriya always knew down deep that his dream was a delusion, which he as much as admits to himself after All Might confirms it on that rooftop. Sure, he could have went into an entire work out regimen, but it wasn't where his head was at--he was not thinking rationally about the entire thing. His study of Heroes, his thoughts about being a Hero himself, these were coping mechanisms to get him through the anxiety and depression of being bullied and ostracized. Once he actually believed that he could truly become the Hero he had always dreamed of being he went all out with weights and exercise, not to mention aiding his abilities with specialized tech. Have you read the manga or are you anime only? ReDestro was meant to be an obstacle to Shigaraki, not Deku, and the anime completely screwed up the entire My Villain Academia arc, cutting away elements of ReDestro's personality and giving him a much more generic appearance. Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, Horikoshi has chosen to rush the entire final act of MHA, so who knows how the original themes will play out. I know nothing about Fate or its characters, so I have no response to that aspect of your vid.

[@PenumbralVT]

I've read a bit ahead of the anime in the manga but I've had most of the manga plot spoiled to me by speaking to my friends lmao. I get deku not training because he thought it was hopeless but its still weird that he then went on to apply to UA despite never having done any work towards being a hero. For me personally it just makes his character a bit more unlikeable, he basically doesn't do any training and then gets the perfect power up necessary to accomplish his dreams. That was the point I was trying to make in the abilities section - both shirou and deku are basically powerless at the start of the series but shirou works insanely hard to make any small amount of progress while deku just seems to have given up on his dream at the start of the series. Like imagine you're bakugou - you've put in countless hours of physical training and conditioning to master your quirk and become insanely strong and then the guy who did basically nothing almost catches up to you because he got given a super strong quirk and training from the top hero - it just feels like a bit of a cheat That being said bakugou's an asshole so it's hard to really sympathize with him lol I get the thing about reDestro being an obstacle for shigaraki so yeah he's not that important in Deku's overall development, but to me he could've been such a cool villain because his morals actually hit pretty close to reality with regards to bodily autonomy and quirk usage. Instead he came across to me in the anime as just another psycopath unfortunately

[@mrsrich3259]

@@PenumbralVT the thing is there is no evidence of thid constant training from Bakugo or anyone else before going to hero school. As a quirkless person it would not have mattered if he did training or not. He would not have gotten in. Even people like Shinso with a quirk didn't make it into the hero course because the entrance test isn't suited for quirks of that nature. Nor does he have money for any tech. Which also wouldn't help because there are no quirkless heroes. It's engraved in their culture.

[@PenumbralVT]

@@mrsrich3259 So I probably didn't explain this in depth enough in the vid but if you look at bakugou's strength its pretty clear he's done some intense training to get where he is. For context, we know todoroki was trained by endeavour growing up in order to become the top hero and bakugou matches him in strength so he must have put in some pretty intense training of his own. As far as the quirkless thing - I agree he wouldn't have gotten into UA but that's not the point, he still applies to get in despite not actually training at all. It'd be like if I decided I wanna be a doctor but don't study at all for the final exams - if he's as committed to being a hero as he seems to be he surely would have done everything in his power to increase his odds despite how hopeless it was It's why I compared him to Shirou in that section - Shirou is also told he can't be a hero cause he's stupidly weak by the standards of his world but despite that he still trains as hard as physically possible to become a hero, the fact that deku seems to have given up just doesn't make sense to me

[@mrsrich3259]

@@PenumbralVT yeah Endeavor had him train for sure.... practicing his quirk. They definitely weren't weightlifting. Lets look at Koda for example. He isn't physically strong. He talks to animals. Its about what your quirk can do and how you apply it.He applied because it didn't hurt to try even though he knew it would be a low possibility. Ua also has general studied or the business class. Shinso didn't get in the hero course but got into general studies. We also seem to forget the discrimination part.

[@PenumbralVT]

I mean with how proficient at combat bakugou is it's kind of hard to believe he didn't train - we also know endeavour trained todoroki's quirk due to a certain characters backstory from the manga All I was saying about deku is that before the story started he seemed to have given up on his dream and only ended up achieving it cause it was handed to him which kinda weakens his motivations for me personally

[@aiogiming9727]

i am a emiy simp

[@comboer3334]

Having read the novel, I do not consider Shiro to be a likeable character, but I think he has an interesting characterization. To like someone, he/she has to have some relatable qualities, but to me, Shiro has very few, if any. On the surface, he is an overly exaggerated version of a Shonen protagonist-he is corny, rigid, and does everything for the sake of love and good; however, he has the qualities of a Shonen protagonist for all the wrong reasons. People can slice, dice, and mix it together however they want, but him being mentally ill doesn't justify all of the actions he's taken thus far. I don't expect anyone to be perfect, and to be fair to him he's made both smart and dumb decisions across all of his routes, and this isn't a Shirou specific issue but I also cant just accept that him being knocked in the head somehow makes his actions seem deeper and more relatable than what I personally feel they are. Yes he tries to take responsibility for his actions when they go south, but when the reason you have to do so is your fault to begin with, who's expecting to be given a congratulations when you're fixing your own fuck-up? I dont want a mary su, and im not particularly fond of underdog characters either, but this guy still manages to irk me when I see him. Shiro is a complete deconstruction of the Shonen hero. A lot of foreshadowing and details went into the creation of Shiro's character. He is a unique type of character, unfortunately he is also very easy to misunderstand when only looking at his portrayals on the surface. Fuck his power scaling and convenient luck though. He's still absolutely considered a shit tier magus, but he shouldn't be being judge on his ability as one, instead he needs to be accessed based on his abilities as an actual fighter, in which case he has come out on top of some absolutely bullshit situations that I'll never approve of from any "underdog" type character. I'm not surprised if he can beat low to mid-tier magus, but if he's still being hyped up as being able to beat actual combat orientated servants and mages despite his apparent major flaws even when his actual upgraded counterpart is still barely considered passable? Fuck him lol.

[@Khann_2102]

Yeah i have to say the part where he defeats Hercules is just... Unbelievable like the plot armor is unreal

[@TheParkoursss]

​@@Khann_2102 Oh, you mean the time he performed nine lives blade works? Well, believe it or not but berserker at that time was blind and his God Hand was stripped away from him, so Shirou was capable of damaging, that and berserker held back his last strike because of Illya, without Illya, berserker would have turned shirou into a bloody paste, so I dont know where you got the plot armor from, unless of course if you haven't read the VN yet, which is totally fine, I'm not gonna force you, but if you want to know how he dealt with seemingly impossible odds then you could read it, or you can just ask a type-moon lore veteran.

[@Khann_2102]

@@TheParkoursss oh ok thanks bro, it's not explicitly explained in the movie so that part is just kinda weird to me

[@kieren440]

But he dies multiple times in the vn, so how does he have plot armor?

[@dex6872]

Shirou isn’t written to be relatable at all due to the type of story Fate/Stay Night is written as. The guy is quite literally batshit insane and holds such a empty shell of a heart. He tries to use such ideals and admirations from kiritsugu to mask himself. So he barely feels like a ‘real person’. I personally don’t consider a character likable just because that have relatable qualities. But I do consider them likable if they possess redeemable qualities that are worth praised. Lastly, I consider them likable if they are simply enjoyable and never boring to read,watch, or play. Shirou being deranged doesn’t justify the acts he commits. They are still incredibly stupid and very unreasonable. But they are at least understandable to me. I don’t need a story to try and justify such decisions or actions of a character to make them likable or well written for me. Being able to understand why is good enough.

[@garroshhellscream594]

In fact, even Fate routes makes Shiro change his way to conceive heroism. He is weak. He can't be the hero he wants to. He starts trying to protect Artoria, which is an error because he can't. She is his sword, he isn't her's. But, bit by bit, with the two falling in loves, he understands that he doesn't need to be alone. Which is the big difference between the two other arcs. In UBW and HF, Shiro is alone in the end. In Fate, they start working together. The sex scene is here for that, showing that his power can be used but must be offer to Artoria. The way he invokes Caliburn in order to the two of them to land the final strike on Berseker. Him confronting Kotomine when Artoria face Gilgamesh. And, in the end, the two of them finally meeting at Avalon. Yes, the two are heroics. But they also are alone. Artoria was a ruler without anyone being able to understand her burden, without anyone who can actually follow the way of her kingship, the martyr way. Shiro failed to be a hero, and Artoria failed to be a ruler. But, at last, when they are together, they can be the heroes they want to be and face impossible odds. Where Artoria alone failed to faced Gilgamesh, with Shiro support, she can. When Kiritsugu failed to killed Kotomine, with Artoria support, Shiro can. UBW is about accepting this way has no happy issue because an hero is egoistical, fight in true for himself, and can't save everyone. But isn't it enough? Doing has much good as you can for so many people, isn't it right in it's own way? Who cares that it is egoistical, that you suffer, if you are happy, in the end? Shiro failed to save Illya, showing him he can't save everyone. But then, he was able to face Archer and overcome it, being better than he could have been. He finally save the world. Him, the egoistical kid, the man who will kill himself if necessary. The greater good is never achieved just by pure people. That dark part can contribute towards it. In Heaven's Feel, it's about understanding that being an hero is a word more complicated that you can think of. Shiro accept to stop to be a hero for everyone, instead, he choses to be the one for Sakura, the girl who never had anyone. Even if he try to do the best for everyone, in the end, the only character he wants to save is Sakura herself. Because some people really need a hero sometimes, and this is a thing that can save them from the evil they could become. There is also Oath Under The Snow, the movie of the Kaleid timeline, which is... insane and pretty far from the magical girl trope. I will not spoil too much but Shiro goes even further than Heaven's Feel and totally let the heroism aside. In this one, he become an antihero.

[@waapi1914]

"Fuck you dad" is so relatable

[@finneandowney3892]

20:24 your voice is relaxing dude, like almost nature documentary narrator level, so I’d say you’re good

[@ahzmaster2676]

Man I love the fact at the beginning of the video you pointed out Ichigo from bleach to me Ichigo and shirou parallel each other so well experienced and have the same trauma of losing loved ones + Survival guilt and constantly blaming themselves and their goal ichigo(protecting his loved ones) shirou (him being hero of justice) and to be honest I recommend you make character analysis of both there is so much to talk about P.S good video

[@ShineDark]

I think Deku probably has Over-Empathy. The opposite of Psychopathy. So, instead of the part of his brain that allows him to feel empathy for others being underdeveloped, it’s overdeveloped and he just innately wants to help everyone he sees.

[@seth7474]

This is a great video, very in depth

[@PenumbralVT]

Yo thanks! might've gone on a bit too long haha

[@vxsparkyxv]

Ain’t no way you said issei from Highschool dxd is heroic for no reason, I stand to argue he may have the most valid reasons to fight

[@barbatosmcmurderton4209]

In fairness, the "haha boob obsessed pervert" front can be hard to see past on a first viewing.

[@chris007ssundee6]

Based

[@FlaschenJoe11]

Had to pause to laugh as you roast Ojirou....not that you are wrong. Just the way you delivered it was AMAZING Love the analysis too though

[@vwoeng7477]

Sometimes I feel like Hori might have been somewhat inspired of Shirou in writing Deku but just can't quite hit that stride

[@adamloga3788]

As a fan if both series, I see axactlu what you're talking about and I agree that pre-story Deku makes no damn sense. How does a guy who idolized a man who looks like he bodybuilds more than Schwarzanegger not put any thought at all into get into at least decent shape? If he was at least shone running for fitness or watching martial arts videos online to do at least SOME preparation, then it'd make more sense and could be explained away with Quirkless discrimination, but at the start of the story, he's just a standard nerdy middle-schooler. Pre-story Izuku and beginning Izuku are entirely different characters. Before he's basically just stubborn but not willing to put the work in, and after he's a freakin' Determinator. Shirou on the other hand, DOES try to prepare to be a hero, he's just untalented and miseducated.

[@wake6000]

The difference is literally no one discourages Shirou from being a hero till the start of F/SN (except Kerry not teaching him but that's hardly a factor lmao) whereas literally everyone including his own mother discouraged Izuku. He's a realistic human, not a plot insert like Shirou. Neither was Shirou completely surrounded by people who had superpowers in a world where that was the norm, thus completely alienating him from it, which was the case for Deku. Hell, he literally explains it in the first arc; a quirk is the bare minimum you need to stand at the starting line. Without that, you aren't going to be good enough no matter what. For example, if you took out all the magic from Shirou, stuck him in a world of exclusively servants and mages, do you think he'd have even the slightest inclination to be heroic?

[@adamloga3788]

@Wake Yes. He would. It's shown time and again that he doesn't care how outclassed or unprepared he is, he'll still try to help people. Motivation to become something is NOT linked to the ability to accomplish said goal. What's more, people DID discourage him, not to the same degree as Izuku, but whenever he told people that he wanted to be an Ally of Justice, they'd laugh him off, because as the Fate series is based in a version of our world, being a superhero is not seen as a viable goal. In a situation where Shirou has no magic or knowledge of it, he'd probably attempt to be a police officer, a local vigilante, or some sort of rescue worker, with the main difference in his story being that interacting with the Moonlit World would almost certainly kill him nigh-immediately. Izuku are least gets to know that even if he doesn't have a superpower of his own, being a hero is a legitimate career, but until the start of the series, he does very little to prepare for it. I would expect someone in his position with his dream to, at bare minimum, have a runner's build as opposed to being the skinny out-of-shape stick that he starts out as, and that's assuming that for whatever reason he cannot get any form of martial arts training or gym membership to build up his body or skills.

[@Zuripai]

@@wake6000 deku being a realistic human isn’t interesting lmao. Sure he’s more relatable but how does that make him better as a character overall? Shirou has had a better journey through out each route and it all comes to a peak in heavens feel where he finally chooses to be selfish and not blindly follow stupid ideals. Izuku is just another example of the selfless hero character trope. Hell fsn constantly makes fun of this trope by being more realistic. There are constant bad endings in the vn where shirou fails and Izuku never once loses. (Where it matters). I don’t hate Izuku but let’s be real here, shirou isn’t a plot insert.

[@Zuripai]

Also take all of shirous magic away, he would still want to help others be it in any way possible: police man, fire man etc. He would always end up being a machine like existence. He isn’t a hero, he’s a broken human who lost it all. Deku could have chosen to be a normal civilian, shirou doesn’t have that luxury.

[@MR.LMR1996]

Aye. Between the two I prefer Shirou over Deku.

[@neku2741]

I literally stopped watching/reading MHA when Lemillion got introduced and saw what we're missing out. Lemillion would make a much better main character.

[@Ubermensch9240]

6:02 Issei wants to get laid. That's normal for a teenager.

[@titantrainer592]

I think Izuku’s more simple motivation creates really good plot lines later in the series when he learns how complex his world actually is

[@vlad2517]

You also gotta remember that we got that great deconstruction of being a hero with Shirou in 2004,thats when vn came out and it had all of it before being hero have become too mainstream,Shirou is crazy,he has mental problems,lots of times people said to him either he never smiles or just pretends to smile,i can remember only a few times when he was truly angry aswell,he can be kinda scary tbh when he is with his glaring look or when he just stares at you with no emotion(some fanart show it and i thought he really looked unsettling and we dont get it that much since vn plays almost all the time from his point of view) and even at the point of game when he is 17 he is already showing signs of being ready to kill 1 to save 100 before grail war progressed much,in fate route he almost strangled Shinji(his friend) to death because he refused to disable boundry field made by his servant,he would have killed Shinji if rider didnt save him,also if i remember right his other friend Issei mentioned that Shirou has quite a short fuse and can get angry pretty easily and also he doesnt care if person asks to get killed and bring their own downfall,he wont care for a person who doesnt value their own life while also planning something evil(pretty ironic if i say so),that was an interesting video enjoyed it quite a lot

[@johnyshadow]

Everyone should strangle Shinji for what he´s done...

[@whateverwhatever4476]

@@johnyshadow naw, my boy Shinji is the goat

[@overlord5032]

​@@whateverwhatever4476 interesting... can you elaborate on why u like that stupid excuse for human being. your opinion is kinda rare

[@nadie7800]

2:40 Three hours! I thought you said the plot not the introduction