2 Simple Ways to Reduce Pool Costs

[@mfwoodshop]

Wow that a big difference

[@JPinFuerteventura]

Interesting video Ben. I will look at reducing the time my pump is on. I believe the general rule of thumb for the minimum time it should be on is in order to filter the total pool capacity twice in a day. I also have solar panels so the other consideration is to have the pump running long enough to ensure the water is heated sufficently - so less when it is hot but more when it is cooler.

[@Dumplin42]

Just a quick note, be careful about reducing pump running time. If you are not running the pump long enough, you are not filtering out contaminants, heating, mixing or adding sanitizer (at least automatically). Most of which will likely cause algae to grow much faster in any pool. This would cause higher costs in chemicals and potentially higher energy costs to correct later on. Side note: Most pool systems require running long enough to circulate the entire volume of your pool at LEAST once. Longer run times for many chemical systems, like mineral systems, biguanides, and other inactive sanitizers. Weather and usage may adjust this as well. Additionally, if you change out just the motor (not the whole pump) and it's not correctly sized to match the rest of your equipment, you could burn out the motor, damage other equipment or cause the system to under perform (not filter/sanitize/heat/mix as designed and waste money). Ultimately, before making a purchase, do your homework. Higher efficiency pumps (motors) can save you money (perhaps as much as Ben explained). I highly recommend talking to a pool professional before you do. Some hidden costs may include: wiring for 220 vs 110, plumbing the new equipment in, replacement parts for pump if just replacing motor (gaskets, impeller, mechanical shaft seal, etc.) and so on. It's much more then matching up motor HP and some fittings.

[@HomeCraftChronicles]

I could be wrong, but it looked to me that you have a fair amount of air trapped in your pump. An air bound system will also hurt your efficiency. I'd install a bleeder of you don't have one already. Great info Ben. You're a strong addition to the HGMM crew

[@BenBuildsDIY]

Thanks and I'll have to look into installing a bleeder.

[@Dumplin42]

I noticed the air trapped as well. Could also be a bad seal on the pump lid. Some lube or new gasket/o-ring might fix that up cheap and easy.

[@audiotechlabs4650]

Ben, yo are very smart. There is not many guys your age making these kind of calculations. You may not be 100% correct, but to tackle this subject is great! Keep on making videos. Thankz

[@ksavage8851]

Just found your channel. Thanks Ben for the info.

[@Frostbain]

You could potentially look at home automation solutions too. E.g. a more programmable timer could potentially have it run for a few minutes at a time instead of non-stop for 6-12 hours per day; or have the filtration running all day with a solenoid to divert it to the roof only on cold days or when you're leaving work (to start warming up on your drive home instead of pumping all that water to the roof all day, even if it's not being heated - so your motor isn't using all that energy when it doesn't need to).

[@seigeengine]

Alternating the filter on and off over the day might be more efficient for heating the pool, certainly. While there might be some advantage to not pumping the water up to the roof when it's warm, your suggestions are ignorant. A pool is an enormous thermal mass. You might be able to make some kind of difference with something like a gas heater on those quick time scales, but a solar one isn't going to make a meaningful difference. You'd want the water to be warmer before the cold day, or well before you want to use it. This is a pool, not a bath tub. You're talking about 10000 to 50000 gallons for normal pools. To increase that mass of water one degree Celsius you'd need 44.2-221 kWh of energy. Direct sunlight is around 1 kW/m^2, and assuming these are as efficient as proper solar water heating panels (70%) you're getting 0.7 kW/m^2 of panel, and then assuming other losses through the pipes and all that bring it down to a modest 0.5 kW/m^2 of panel. That means in order to increase the temperature of the pool by one degree Celsius (1.8 degree Fahrenheit btw) in one hour, you'd need roughly 88-442 m^2 of solar heating panels, which is 950-4750 ft^2. And that's not even typical case, that's when the panels are pointed directly at the sun. In practice, you'd lose a good chunk (roughly 20% averaged over a day) of that heating capacity due to the roof being fixed and not perfectly angled, meaning you're talking more like 1150-5700 ft^2. As you can see, this rapidly becomes way too big to be practical for most cases. You really do need to be using all the heating available during times of year where it gets cold enough to need it at any point.

[@Bobby-bo3zc]

Ben. great job making your presentation clear and understanding. But (sorry here comes the but) The best way to save money with your pool is to focus on the hydraulics. Savings is in matching the motors horsepower with the flow rate. The pool equipment shown. 1.5 hp motor has an avg. gpm rate of 98-105 gallons per minute. The pvc pipe size is 2" with a gpm rate of 80 gallons. The filter you show has a flow rate of 50-60 gpm. So the motor is working extra hard, pulling higher amps. Because the pump is trying push 45 gpm that don't fit in the flow. That's not including the head pressure to move water up the roof. (water is heavy). Sorry I'm rambling off in my b.s. thanks for sharing. HGMM

[@MexieMex]

How long does it take to warm the pool versus the pool cooling? Would it be an idea to have it turn on/off at regular intervals rather than running all day?

[@PidasianHippie]

So did you change out the motor?

[@Dzichader]

I am about to build a pool, but mine project must evade pool tax and by using flower cover tent it reduce chlorine and filter cost.

[@brothyr]

why is the water being pumped to the roof to be heated? the point of a pool is that the water is cold.

[@seigeengine]

California has periods of the year where it gets cool enough you wouldn't really want to be swimming in an unheated pool. The extra heating means you can heat the water to make up for it. Pool heaters are actually very common, and this is just a solar alternative. Something like this can extend the swimming season by months in more temperate climes.

[@JPinFuerteventura]

Only if you are a masochist Adam 😉

[@BenBuildsDIY]

We live in Florida, and we like the pool nice and warm, so the water is being pumped to the roof to be heated by solar.

[@CJyoumark456]

It seems the calculations for the first motor were all at 115V, and the second motor was at 230V according to the chart. Was hard to see the numbers in the video for comparison. The first motor could also be switched to 220V to save some money.

[@BenBuildsDIY]

Switching the voltage higher doesn't save any money. What we care about is watts which is V x I. Current times voltage, so if we double the voltage, we halve the current and it doesn't really save anything.

[@CJyoumark456]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[@jasonforne6800]

12c per kWH, I pay roughly 42c/kWH.

[@seigeengine]

And where do you live? Cause 12c/kWh is normal in North America.

[@BenBuildsDIY]

Wow! Thats crazy! 12c/kWh is still a lot in my opinion, but at 42c, you're looking at a 350% savings over what I showed in this video.

[@Cynyr]

your data sheet is lying to you. Assuming that the 1.5 HP number listed is true shaft horse power, the motor assuming 100% efficiency would need 1.12kW of input power. a really good three phase induction motor of this size could be as high as 95% which would give you an actual input power of 1.12/0.95=1.18kW at the line. a single phase capacitor run motor will be lower efficiency. given the 0.37kW input figure shown on the data sheet and a more reasonable efficiency of 89%, the shaft output power is closer to 0.37*1.341=0.496, or near enough to 0.5 HP. Would simply getting a timer that allowed you to set the pump top run for 20 minutes then sit off for 20 provide a similar amount of heating at a reduced power consumption? there must be a duty cycle time that allows for 90% of the effectiveness of the split heater while at the same time using half or less of the power. short cycling the pump would be bad, so best not to use too short of a run time.

[@MattTrevett]

You're absolutely right. The UHE pool pump motor will only use .37kW which is roughly 0.5HP. It'll essentially be using less power by moving less water. Either you're missing out on the RPMs, pressure output from the pump, flow rate, or some combination thereof. A small motor like that may not be best for moving water up to the top of the roof. I'd install a solar panel bypass line and use the smaller pump/motor in the summer without heating the water.

[@LeftFlamingo]

Yep. Also, there are considerations left out, and inaccuracies in the calculations, unfortunately. If you run the motor(/heater) for only 6 hours instead of 11 hours, what is the net effect on the usability of the pool? How much colder is the water due to 45% less heating time? And absolutely, just taking into account the nominal power rating of the motors will not give accurate results. There are several points of efficiency loss that have to be taken into account. And last, but not least. There are not 12*31 days in a year ;)

[@seigeengine]

I am also curious about this.

[@BenBuildsDIY]

Your comment was very interesting, and correct, for the motor to be a true 1.5 HP motor it would need to be 1.12kW or more. My research on this indicates that the number listed on the data sheet is actually a HP equivalent number, kind of sneaky on the part of the motor sales company. Basically what they did is measured flow rate, RMPs, and pressure output and made a motor that did the same amount of water moving with less HP and so apparently they are legally allowed to list that as a 1.5 HP motor, go figure..

[@MattTrevett]

+Ben Builds: Thanks for the follow up!

[@dschlic1able]

Looks like too much air in the suction basket of the pump. Also suggest going to a two speed motor.

[@creiij]

Like I could afford a forking pool to begin with...