"Hidden" Character Options in Old-School D&D

Here I talk about making characters unique by choices made at creation and during play.
Welcome to Bandit's Keep where we play a variety of tabletop role-playing games!

[@vilhelmpuddintain9295]

A good thief uses a dagger. A great thief _carries_ a dagger but _uses_ whatever he can get his hands on~ ;D

[@BanditsKeep]

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@goblindiskjockey2157]

I love that. I can't help but imagine a thief, fabled throughout the land for his skill with his dagger, beating foes to death with a pair of bricks.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@goblindiskjockey2157 Ha ha, for sure!

[@SusCalvin]

@@goblindiskjockey2157 I've always played fighters that way. They're professional violence-dealers who can use tools of their trade. A lot of the flexibility of a fighter is that you can tools fitting the situation. We've switched from firing lines where everyone has a musket, loose formations where a swarm of sword-and-board dudes skirmish, heavy phalanx formations using the same PCs.

[@yippeethreeeight]

I've always thought that this was the way. 100% agree. Less rules = more options.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@CaptCook999]

I like to play Thieves. One that I started in a campaign at 5th level was Eric the Bold. He was a human with a good charisma. So he acted all tough but always tried to talk his way out of a fight. He'd say something like "We could kill all of you but wouldn't it be better for all of us if we could make a deal". He was a fun character to play and he made it to 8th level by the end of the campaign.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@KingAndy1992]

You mentioned something that comes up a lot for me at the end of this video - a magic user who never fights. I've had players express anxiety to me about playing a wizard because they're concerned about what's going to happen when they get into melee and lose their small handful of hit points with only a dagger or quarterstaff to defend themselves with. It's such a relief for a lot of players to be told that it's very sensible and thematic for their character to just outright not engage monsters in melee combat. "If this were real, what do you think your character would do" goes a long way.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@SusCalvin]

A few OSR games don't use class-restricted weapons. Magic-users might still be restricted to robe AC and MU hit dice. so they still don't like to be in the thick of it. We've had MUs who shot pistols in combat, used different magic items, even just holding torches. A large group of paramilitary hobos might not get to fight just because of the environment, the corridor is so narrow that only to or three of you (with a second rank stabbing spears over their heads) fighting. If they're just four or five hobos with no goon squad, a wizard or thief might step up as spear-carrier or sling a rock into the enemies. In several OSR games non-fighters can do all the things a level 0 man-at-arms can do. Sometimes they can even wear medium-sized armour.

[@BlackJar72]

My favorite character way back was a female elf (with amazingly good ability scores for the 3d6 era) named Melellenna. She only used one-handed weapons except for bows and wore chainmail (wouldn't use plate armor) because she liked to travel light and not be too heavy on her feet -- and would sometimes sing and not entirely appropriate times. She didn't sleep but rested awake on her feet -- we had determined elves didn't sleep because of the "Tolkien said so" argument -- and so took all the watches (no one trusted my sister's chaotic thief to stay up while they slept).

[@BanditsKeep]

Ha ha, awesome!

[@TheArcturusProject]

Whenever I see you comment, I get excited to see the Legend of the house of Blackburn grow. (Forgive me if I’m being presumptuous, but Blackburn is a fairly uncommon family name, and seeing it on a BX DnD video can’t be coincidence!?) I grew up reading KoDT and buying the hackmaster rule books!

[@cryptonyzer8699]

So close to Melania lmao

[@jdRamza]

I'm playing a Fighter in B/X right now that I keep under the 60lb weight threshold. He is a ranger type like you said but with 5 Int and 7 Wis. Carries a wooden holy symbol of Beory, garlic, wolfsbane, and suspects most people of being vampires or werewolves.

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome

[@SusCalvin]

Sometimes people like wear lighter stuff. In Veins where you actually need to spelunk a lot, any kind of rigid armour becomes a hindrance. There are no easy standard corridors, you constantly squeeze through weird cracks and rapell down walls. If you fight pitched corridor battles a lot, it's a lot harder to not deck yourself out in heavy gear. The crew looks more like a paramilitary goon squad than rugged adventurers.

[@machfront]

Love it! The spirit of the game! No extrea rules needed. That sounds fun as heck!

[@rjones6080]

This helps explain something that I talk about all the time - the difference between the "builds" of today that focus on stats and mechanics vs. the "builds" of old, which included WHO your character was, WHY they did what they did and HOW they did it.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@Eron_the_Relentless]

Different way to go about odd/inappropriate enchanted items: pay a mage for enchantment transference. That way a character can use for example a family's ancestral blade and imbue it with enchantments over the course of adventures. Turn it into a quest. It gets more fun when you get to the point of sword sentience.

[@BanditsKeep]

Great idea! I do like (and have used) the "unlocking" of powers from swords as the PC levels up or just over time and it works well in certain types of campaigns.

[@SusCalvin]

@@BanditsKeep Magic items in Earthdawn work that way. A character with a class level can "level up" their connection with a magic item through xp. It makes them stronger, sometimes they toss you an odd skill. They describe it as living into the "legend" of the item, built up over time as hero after hero has used it in legendary deeds. As you progress in level, you can live into more of that myth. It was mostly just an xp cost, but sometimes a certain level required a deed in remembrance of that history. Level x of a pearl of intelligence we had required the holder to give one good advice to a regent. A twisted item we found required that you sacrifice people in elemental fire. It could simply be "Face a Horror and slay it".

[@freddaniel5099]

I am in total agreement with the idea you espouse in this video! This is real freedom to make the character you want. Thanks 😉

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome, thanks!

[@Sierra99]

Looked at the view counter expecting to see thousands... that’s how it should be!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks! Maybe some day 😊

[@Lowe505]

agree, skills and all the other bells and whistles were from our own minds not always from a rule book which is why B/X is so flexible that it can adapt to anything in my opinion.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@FunAtStreaming]

When i started with playing BECMI D&D i one day created a Samurai character. And you guess what, i met somebody at the table who was like "samurai isn't a class in this game... it's western fantasy, there aren't even katana in D&D". But our DM who was an experienced veteran i knew for many years replied "well sure by his character sheet this is a fighter wearing leather armor, a longsword and a shortsword. but to me it's totally fine if he roleplays as a Samurai wearing a katana and wakizashi for his weapons. nobody ever said D&D is limited to western medieval ages, just because there's no class for something else."

[@BanditsKeep]

Exactly

[@docsavage8640]

Good video. I wish more people looked past the tropes and stereotypes baked into the rules and realized you can use the game for all sorts of fantasy settings and that a fighter could be a woodsman, a gladiator, a Roman legionnaire, a swashbuckling pirate, a Conan ripoff, you name it.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@SusCalvin]

I never plonk down magic items to fit the player characters. The weapons and gear they find in a dungeon tells a story about who lived there. A dwarf military garrison will have a lot of spears with some crossbows around. A VOC stronghold will have a few magic bullets for an arquebus somewhere. The ceremonial dagger some dudes have used in a pyramid have a bleeding power. What I will do is try to give them more options. In a lot of adventures, the magic weapon sitting around is just another sword. Swords and swords and swords everywhere with no sight of a magic spear.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@phildicks4721]

The one thing I enjoyed about BECMI was when they added the skills/non weapon proficiencies. Then you could really customize a character.

[@BanditsKeep]

Why could you not do that before with role play and discussion with the group?

[@SusCalvin]

They reminded me of the skills in WFRP. Like a mix of proto-skills and proto-feats. One of the lads took a 2nd ed NWP that just improves his climb speed or something. In WFRP some "skills" are practically feats. You get Mighty Blow that ups your damage +1. But in WFRP you start out as working sods and enjoy a winding career path from coin-clippers to the heroes the empire deserves.

[@williamlee7482]

I play AD&D hybrid 1st & 2nd edition using classes from 1st edition Unearthed Arcana . One of my favorite characters I used to play as a player was a wild elf barbarian named D'aar Ruthal that only wore skins/fur armor and used a short spear , shield , short bow and dagger . He was chaotic good and was the parties forward scout when hex crawling . My othher favorite character was a half Wood Elf Ranger/Magic-user named Woody ( Nick name , real name Thrandil ) Spellbinder whose favorite spells were sleep , charm person , magic missle , spider climb , knock , stinking cloud , web , explosive runes , flame arrow , hold person , fly and lightning bolt . He used his spells to lock encounters down making combat easier for his group . Plus on hex crawls he was also the parties hunter/tracker . He wore brown and green stained leather armor with a brown and green hooded cloak , used 2 short swords , a short bow , hand axe , dagger as his weapons . He also was in charge of shelter building if the party needed a semi permanent camp . He would set up traps not to close to camp that were alarms to warn the party of intrudes

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome

[@scottmarsh2991]

I like how OSE opened all weapons to be useable by the Thief Class. Thuggish alley-bashers can be different from slinky cat-burglars. I like how DCC has different level titles for Classes based on Alignment. The different titles are inspiring.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thieves could always use all weapons in BX - but yeah, I agree it’s great. I also like how DCC cleric heal differently based on alignment very nice touch

[@csimpson14]

Love the advice! Thanks for this - I might share it with my players. We’re about to launch a campaign in the Land of 1000 towers using The Black Hack 2e which has mechanics baked in to let players get advantage on checks based on their background. It’s more-or-less your advice to referees here but codified in the rules.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! I ran in that setting for about a year, super fun!

[@MrRourk]

As a Arduin Player I approve of this message.

[@BanditsKeep]

Very cool! I’ve heard much talk of that but I have not read the grimoire myself

[@Arnsteel634]

I have not heard about Arduin in ages

[@MrRourk]

@@Arnsteel634 the big red book is available again Arduin Grimore from Emperor's Choice Games

[@WilliamFurby]

I also agree that less is more when it comes to character classes. I am currently running a Rules Cyclopedia (BECMI) game; however, I wanted a more B/X feel so I don't use Weapon Mastery or General Skills. I also created a Campaign Setting document so that players could better define where their characters came from, how they look, and create a back story for them. I found that it's easier for players to create a personality for their characters this way.

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s cool, a setting document can really set the tone

[@machfront]

Yes! Yes, yes, yes! Began playing at age 12 in fall of ‘86. B/X has long been my go-to but also now WhiteBox:Fantastic Medieval Adventure Game. Also many other rules-lites stuff. Fighters of varying attributes (and backgrounds) ought easily be treated and enjoying differences! Great example: our fave four Musketeers! All different…all fighters! Just as the incredibly strong thief from a rural background should enjoy certain benefits and the highly dexterous and slightly above average intelligence thief ought have his own good and fun stuff, too…..then add short backstory… hey, they may die in their first encounter, but I always let player write a few ‘key words’ or a couple of sentences. Then we all know that fighter #1 was a fisherman, that fighter #2 grew up in a city and learned from his uncle who was a sergeant-at-arms, that thief #1 was a hunter, cleric #1 spent the entirety of his childhood studying ancient lore and monster lore, etc. Fun stuff! Helpful! Fun for them and fun and useful for the players and DM and no rules needed at all! (Nor extra classes)! 🙂 Fun! Rules? No thanks!

[@caileancampbell7498]

The glaring caviot not mentioned in this video..., everything mentioned is homebrew. I played 1st and 2nd editions, then 5e. All the classes in 5e were subclasses in 2e, Paladins were a subclass of fighter, ranger was a subclass of druid who in turn was a subclass of cleric. So if you wanted to play a fighter with ranger skills, your DM/GM had to ok it, thus making it a homebrew. If you wanted you mage to be a frontliner, you had to work it out with your DM/GM. The early editions where very rules-heavy but encouraged the table to make the game their own. Add or subtract rules that were comfortable for the table. If I remember correctly, it was stated on the first page of the DMG to completely ignore the rules presented if you wanted to. That allowed everything to be completely homebrew.

[@BanditsKeep]

umm ok 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@Reuben-]

These are great points, and they make a lot of sense. In the later editions it always felt overwhelming, rules wise, to have all the supplements and "Complete ..." books. So much ink and time to cover the "well what about.." scenarios. If all it takes is honesty in the gaming group to have the simple class morph into class that's more to the players liking, then it's a win-win all around. The rules of the later editions always felt like a constraint, or a force, to keep everything level and fair. When all that was needed is for the people themselves to be honest and fair minded. Anyways. How would you help the basic rules magic user be able to participate more with magic? Are there some simple rules you've used that let them cast the spells they want without having to wait a day to get them back, but also keep them from nuking everything to death?

[@BanditsKeep]

I tend to be in favor of MU as they are - but it does require the player to really work at role- play. This is a great topic idea!

[@steelcaress]

I got rid of spells slots, spells per level, memorization, etc. I use a roll to cast system: 1. Roll d20 and add your INT modifier. Target # is 10 + 2x spell level. So to cast a 1st level spell, you need to get a 12. You have to roll for everything else, why not magic? 2. You have a certain number of "spells known." Any known spell can be cast. They don't vanish from your mind. 3. If you fail your spell roll spectacularly, something bad happens. You might hit your friends, or hit yourself, or worse. 4. As you rise in level you gain the ability to know more spells. 5. The kicker is you have to beg, steal, or borrow to get more spells. In most old school adventures, you'll find more spells. DMs can tailor these spells so that they're useful, not duplicates of what the players already have. Treat them like armor. 6. Not automatically gaining spells doesn't have to be a punishment. Imagine searching out someone to apprentice yourself to. The old witch who lives in the tower in the center of town might be a powerful magic user herself, and teach the PC more spells.

[@PeterNorthsLeftTesticle]

I give the Wizard bonus spells similar to the Cleric for high wisdom, except for the Wizard it's obviously intelligence.

[@mackdmara]

Both is good. If you play by the rules as written when making your character, great! Working within restrictions is what will often cause you to try odd builds to see what works best in play. Of course, having a great idea that doesn't fit known classes or weapon allowances can also be great. As long as the DM is on board with it, great! Sometimes a great idea is just that. Crazy stuff was the main idea of old school D & D. I think you got it right though. Be creative and invested in the game and it will be fun.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@sunsin1592]

Modern editions have you roll for tons of stuff that we used to just makeup in our heads like backgrounds, etc. It's ironic that these modern games continually add tons of rolls to substitute for actual creativity and role-playing. And don't get me started on perception checks. After messing around with tons of games over the years, we've gravitated back to OSE and S&W as our games of choice. And to your point, I often substitute magic items in modules to fit specific party members. We have a barbarian in a party who is modeled after Polynesian warriors so I dropped a magic koa wood shield in and a sword made from a swordfish bill.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@TheEricthefruitbat]

Most people don't understand how D&D works, either old or new systems. Every "rule" in the books is optional. It is there if you need a way to do something that you can't or don't want to figure out yourself. Character stats were intended to help decide if you could do something. Roll under your strength to move the boulder over the hole in the ground. Complex systems can be cool and interesting, but aren't necessary.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

I still do this even in 5e as a player. "Building" your character isn't primarily about mechanics. It's about the fiction. The mechanics should support the fiction and when they don't, talk to your DM about it. They may accommodate or you may have to compromise, but it should start with the fiction. My current character is part of a church to a knowledge God that serves as the espionage branch for the government. So mechanically I picked a Knowledge cleric with ritual casting and a spy background. She wears a chain shirt under her non-descript garments and has a couple of daggers for if she ever gets in a really tight spot. But all those mechanics were driven by the fiction.

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome

[@larsbangjensen5332]

Great ideas, and I totally agree about the pitfalls related to a granular skillsystem. Just make it up in your character (background). We play Ad&D 2ed at the moment and I actually don't like the non weapon / weapon proficiency system there..

[@BanditsKeep]

I liked those things in 2e in concept, But in play I definitely prefer a looser system

[@machfront]

Don’t mean to ‘spam’ but yes, I’ve had player (and myself, besides) in B/X, OD&D, OSE, LL, S&W, WB:FMAG, play characters who were, easily and essentially ‘rangers’. Most were fighters, but….shock of shocks…. A few of them were classed as Thieves. No kidding. Hey…ya got a solid Con or Str….and you’re Thief comes from a rural background? It works! I’ve seen it. Again…. Fun stuff… and no need for another x pages of rules! 🙂

[@johnscotto5045]

I think you are right on the mark with your comments here. Earlier versions by which I mean BX essentially, of D&D plus some new reincarnations like 0SE, provide a very basic framework of mechanics but really expect the players in the DM to fill in the rest with your imagination. I think more recent incarnations, probably in an effort to make it easier for people to simply start, provide “kids“ which ostensibly provide more options for a beginning DM and beginning players. I think in reality they tend to straight jacket peoples minds.I would argue that while it’s neat to have four options (or whatever) for rangers, before I saw those four options I essentially had unlimited options except for the extent of my imagination. I also understand how having defined options is important for tournament play, but I think for friends playing it’s far less significant and may impede what they do.

[@johnscotto5045]

My apology for the grammatical errors - it’s early here.

[@johnscotto5045]

Kids = kits

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure - I also believe the options are an attempt at balance on some level. But I think you lose more than you gain.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

I'm a character designer, and so when I made my characters, I focused on a good design first and foremost, but armour and weapons often conflict with this. In the game Terraria, there are "armour" slots, for actual armour, and "Vanity" slots, which will override your armour and make you look how you want. I think of it like that

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s interesting!

[@SusCalvin]

We usually embrace the "paramilitary goon squad look" wholeheartedly. The PCs are a band of conquistador-blokes doing dangerous stuff with lots of guns. That said, it's not up to me to describe what "AC 16" looks like. It is some sort of rigid metal/ceramic armour covering most of your body. You can say you're wearing a gothic plate suit or kevlar riot armour.

[@SusCalvin]

I always like to play fighters as generalists who can pick up different weapons. The adaptability of the fighter when not locked in by weapon specializations have always been central to me. You can be the lad who stands in a spear line, shoot a musket, even use a static machinegun etc depending on the situational need.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@RodBatten]

I think that having detailed skills often narrows player choices, as opposed to using class, race, and background as meta-skills and rolling ability checks. Wisdom, intelligence, and charisma become more valuable when they are used for skill checks. It also helps players see their characters as more than just combat constructs. Simon Washbourne's "Barbarians of Lemuria" uses a variation on this idea as the core of the character creation.

[@BanditsKeep]

Oh? I have that system, I’ll have to crack open the book again, thanks!

[@falkyrie5228]

My best character to this day was a human fighter, while my worst character to this day was a half-tiefling warlock 😂

[@BanditsKeep]

Ha ha nice!

[@johnhans2929]

This is something I wish we had thought about back in the early 80's.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@mightyeroc7284]

I stopped using variable weapon damage and quickly saw weapons being chosen for image of the character rather than for damage potential.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool, I’ve found the same.

[@goblindiskjockey2157]

I don't care about damage when creating a character. I wanna make a common soldier? Spear, shield, and short sword. Barbarian? It's a battle axe. Noble? Long sword. Blacksmith mercenary? Maul. I prefer creating a living thing instead of just wining every fight.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@goblindiskjockey2157 For sure

[@CaptCook999]

Magic weapons and armor that you can't use are perfect items to give to your Henchmen. Imagine the loyalty you will have from them when you hire them and give them a magic weapon or armor. Or a magic crossbow they can use without getting up front in the fight. Your reputation will also get a big boost and sometimes that is a very important factor.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@SusCalvin]

In games where you have a couple henches each, there's usually no shortage of hands who can hold stuff. Sometimes the backup weapon to your magic weapon is another magic weapon. Sometimes you can trade magic items with NPCs for a favor or cash or another magic item. We've sometimes just dumped magic spears and a potion on a new player.

[@PvtSchlock]

Once I started getting better at rp, was a bit better read, had a speck of maturity and was maybe 16 or 17, I was much better at the "tired old guy" MU. Bunks, bluffs, flim flam, sauce, lip, guff, sass, all that and jive on the side. "No, no, none of its true, yes we're lying, why I'm not even a real magician, I lied to them because I wanted to be somebody. Instead of an old bum, which is what I am. Say, whose that?" (Runs out of room) The game can be so much fun with just the basics of it.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@Emanemoston]

Thanks for the video.

[@BanditsKeep]

😊😊

[@nrais76]

Exactly what I told my kids. "There's no Ranger?" "Nope. Play a Fighter, have woodsmanship in your background, you know how to track. If it's hard, handle it with an Intelligence check." "Halflings should be thieves, not fighters." "I tend to agree, but how much stealing did Bilbo ACTUALLY do? Roleplay her as a thief. It's what I did when I was your age, playing the black box."

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@MoeMoeKyun206]

This is why I still play a super rules-light "old-school" game, despite enjoying relatively "modern" characters who are relatively strong. I don't need a thousand rulebooks to play the game; With fewer rules, I can let a player bring any character concept to the table, and without having to write out a ton of abilities and skills and feats and stuff that player can play a cool character. Might it be a bit unbalanced? Sure, the world is unbalanced. I find lack of balance fun, sometimes the party absolutely devastates something and sometimes they run away. A bit of a ramble, but imo fewer rules actually allows for more creativity, because you're not bound to someone else's ideas.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure - and I’m with you in liking characters that are generally a step above the norm in power

[@sunsin1592]

Another fun PC in our OSE campaign is a bard modeled off the Middle Eastern Bedouin culture. Carries a scimitar and his instrument is an oudh.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! I do love a good scimitar

[@machfront]

…..Also…. I love a thief who uses a sword and dagger in tandem… Well… B/X…my house rule grants thieves d6 HP (I love the idea that these guys ….”get into stuff” and ought be ‘scrappy’) and also duel-weilding (as the off-hand weapon is meant to help with defense….for fighters, too)…so -1 to AC as a shield. So….a thief with dex of 16, in leather armor, with sword and dagger….AC 4. Hit points? Ya still better watch out! Being flanked or attacked from behind? Too bad! Ya still better be being a thief and being careful! Hahaha!

[@bronsongorham]

I think its important to separate character options into "statistical" and "personality" traits. Otherwise you get people who try to take advantage of the system. They say they want to role-play a demi-god, but really they just want to kick more ass. Codifying "statistical" options keeps the min-maxers at bay and the game in balance. Allowing for various "personality" options, both good and bad, and keeping them open to interpretation can make characters unique and memorable. I would even allow characters to perform actions derived from their personality or background, as long as they weren't used to gain some major statistical advantage.

[@BanditsKeep]

Makes sense. Though, if not to kick butt, why would someone play a demi-god? 😊

[@sgtbigballs666]

All characters in my world have a "chance" to do anything, what that chance is however...🤔

[@BanditsKeep]

That seems fair as long as you let them know before they roll

[@spikepit1]

I enjoyed this video. My BECMI nomadic desert hobgoblin won't use range weapons. He would never resort to such a dishonourable display of cowardice.

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome! I love that kind of stuff

[@99zxk]

Have you ever looked into Dungeon World? Damage goes by class instead of weapon. Its an interesting idea. Sort of how in B/X all weapons do d6 and variable damage is actually an optional rule. I feel like some of the weapons in B/X are poorly done. There are two handed weapons that do equal, and maybe less than a longsword. Also, why can't wizards use a staff?

[@BanditsKeep]

I’ve played a little dungeon world, there are some cool ideas there.

[@solomani5959]

Curious. Do you allow your PCs to sell or buy magic items? I’ve gone both ways and in the end I settled on the paradigm that the only place you can do this is a place like Sigil or The City of Brass. Essentially gating it behind planar travel.

[@BanditsKeep]

I don’t generally have magic items for sale.

[@wanderinghistorian]

@BanditsKeep I am curious - do you still play/run games with only the B/X classes allowed? I've spoken with many Basic fans who admit they've added in loads more classes into their games and I was just wondering if anyone is REALLY playing with just the four human classes + demihumans and nothing else.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, in fact I now mostly run OD&D so no their class either. We don’t seem to miss the other stuff

[@Meeeeeeeestery]

I totally agree! Recently I found White Box rpg and, I've never believed to say this, it engaged my imagination like OSE did not. And what you say here resonates so strongly with the reasons why that happened. I have a question for you, Daniel, and I'm so interested in your opinion: how would you handle double-wielding in OD&D or B/X?

[@BanditsKeep]

I’m a big fan of WB for sure. Fighting with two weapons I have handled many ways; +1 to hit being the most common, but typically I just treat it as flavor and if the PC is disarmed they have a backup weapon.

[@Meeeeeeeestery]

@@BanditsKeep In fact, that of the backup weapon is what I like the most and what better fit the spirit of the classic game. Noted! I'm going to do the same, thanks!

[@aarondavidson3833]

Great video, feature bloat of more modern games can really kill the life/pace of a session.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure!

[@JB0528]

I'm returning to B/X after not having played any D&D variant in many years. My plan is to write a short house rules book for my group and this video gives me less work to do. One struggle I'm having is I'm still not a fan of race as class. There are ideas in my head of elven thieves or dwarven clerics. I know there are resources out there, I just have not found the alternative rules to suit this. I expect I'll work in some 1E rules to suit my B/X game, but any tips are appreciated.

[@BanditsKeep]

I tend to like race as class, since each race has their own set of skills, so I’m not sure if I’d be much help there, but I’d be curious what you come up with. I will think about it though and if I come up with something I’ll post. Thanks so much for watching

[@paavohirn3728]

I wonder if you've found the Old-school Essentials advanced fantasy rules. ADD stuff molded into B/X format. The OSE books in general are a perfect expression of B/X imo.

[@JB0528]

@@paavohirn3728 I will look those up, thank you!

[@paavohirn3728]

@@JB0528 you're welcome :) A little late answer but hope it helps.

[@raymondlugo9960]

See if you can find the OD&D rules for race plus class that was basis for race as a class.

[@GoblinLord]

really in my opinion in bx d&d the only options you could add that would add much are a face class and more races, that's it, face class because it's the final archetype, and races because it's hard to be a changeling or doppelganger when your only option is elf, of course flavor is king but yea, outside of that you're done

[@BanditsKeep]

I always look at the MU as the face, they are the one who likely speaks a bunch of languages

[@GoblinLord]

@@BanditsKeep fair, primarily I think of face as social skills, speaking languages doesn't mean much when you opening your mouth is a death sentence to me Charisma is charm magic, language, and likely having class features like lowered prices (which could give the image of you haggling) (which of course could be done with gm fiat but it's nice to have it baked in or represented even if it's not mega codified and is just lightly codified)

[@BanditsKeep]

@@GoblinLord so a MU with decent charisma 😊 seriously though, I get the desire for this, it was just never a thing for me when I learned to play and I feel like making a “face” class just takes RP away from the rest of the group - talking is the one thing all classes can do IMO

[@crapphone7744]

Why you would let a rule like class restrictions stand in the way of your players enjoying the character that they play baffles me. Movies like Conan which inspired me to return to d&d completely cross these lines and I wanted my characters to cross these lines as well. Ask me about my lawful good half orc cleric who's best friend is a dwarf.

[@BanditsKeep]

Not sure how clerics and half orcs have anything to do with Conan, but yeah, creativity is what makes the game what it is. In a basic game, Conan is a fighter, and he’s an awesome one at that!

[@michaelhill6453]

How did your fighter characters survive without going down the traditional armour plus best weapon path instead, wearing leather because it was more thematic? Even up against a standard orc that incidentally, has a +1 to hit advantage over the level one PC to begin with, the fighter is dead in the first or second round.

[@BanditsKeep]

By playing smart and not fighting when I didn’t need to, sneaking up on bad guys using missile weapons using cover etc.

[@michaelhill6453]

@@BanditsKeep The DM was using alternate XP? Ah, hang on this was when you were a youngster?

[@michaelhill6453]

@@BanditsKeep Great videos BTW.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks

[@BanditsKeep]

No, we stole the treasure most of the time or tricked the monsters.

[@direwoof3186]

I was a drow elf before drow elfs were cool...

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@jackhowe6]

Drow were from the first minute just pots and pots of special abilities, Stat bonuses, high level multiclassing, and extraordinary magic gear. I blame Pizzle da Urchin.

[@anymajordude87]

your point is well taken, but I would like to point out that many younger players are unfamiliar with the idea of being creative and using imagination to develop characters. an entire generation grew up with video games providing all the choices and doing all the imagining. Having a game like 5e with classes and races and backgrounds and skills, helps them to see the possibilities available. Hopefully they will try these out and grow their creativity until they are ready for more open-ended rule sets like B/X.

[@BanditsKeep]

How will they ever learn to be creative if they are always given just a group of options to choose from? When I first got back into the hobby, I thought all those “features“ for character creation were very useful to “new players“ but the longer I played the more I saw that all those new players did was look for more and more prepackaged ideas. If they had started from the beginning having to make up their own, I think they would have been fine. We don’t give enough credit to young people, I think that’s the big difference.

[@anymajordude87]

@@BanditsKeep an experienced DM is a big help with new players asking "can I do X?" but what I am finding is that my younger players don't ask. That is, if it is not on the character sheet they don't think it is doable. I tell them if you think of ANYTHING you want your character to try, just let me know. But I get so few ideas. They want me to offer them options to pick from. Now mind you they are not children, these are young adults.