Full Hero Tier List: Darkest Dungeon

[@pigslayer275]

I see no convenient time stamps in either the description or comments after scrolling for a while, so you know what time it is! I hope this serves everyone well. ------ S Tier 2:45 | Highwayman S, 24Pts 3:39 | Shieldbreaker S, 22Pts 4:35 | Hellion S, 20Pts ------ A Tier 5:40 | Man-At-Arms A, 19Pts 6:39 | Occultist A, 19Pts 7:35 | Bounty Hunter A, 18Pts 8:21 | Flagellant A, 18Pts ------ B Tier 9:59 | Houndmaster B, 17Pts 10:53 | Jester B, 17Pts 11:58 | Plague Doctor B, 17Pts 13:00 | Crusader B, 17Pts ------- C Tier 14:17 | Grave Robber C, 16Pts 15:26 | Vestal C, 14Pts 16:59 | Leper C, 14Pts 18:14 | Arbalest C, 14Pts ------ D Tier 19:41 | Abomination D, 13Pts 21:04 | Antiquarian D, 12Pts ------ Edit: Refined timestamps

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you! You have been pinned to the top!

[@Icynova]

The hero we needed

[@xandermichels8336]

my god vestal in C tier? he used the vestal in like all but the clips when talking about the occultist how can you put her that far down :’(

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

@@xandermichels8336 First off, thank you for watching. I've responded to many others about this if you want some more detail/conversation in other comments. The reason I have her low is, because she can really only heal while the occultist can do many other things besides healing and row position. Sadly by design, if you want a reliable healer you are stuck with a vestal, but I truly don't think as an overall character she is really strong.

[@lechking941]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming sounds solid to me. plus i have seen the occults heal its good but lord does it swing, the vestal (aka book and mace) is a low but constant set up. and even full party.

[@canaldecasta]

The real Hero is Reynauld overcoming his kleptomania.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is very true. It's a hard thing to turn around for sure

[@DecrepitBiden]

I have 3 ferrets. They're the real kleptomaniacs. They steal anything that interests them. Phone, screw driver, wire ties, plastic bags, etc.

[@Uriakatos]

The real hero is the ancestor for letting us "have fun" playing this "game."

[@tokiwartooth4404]

(Whistles..)

[@moonboy5851]

Ferocious Ferret sounds like they are planning a kidnapping.

[@ShuffleFM]

I love the mathematical approach with the scoring. Antiquarian being called an "escort mission" was really funny.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I tried something a little different, so we'll see how it is received. Thank you for watching!

[@svenweihusen57]

I agree with you, but IMHO Vestal, Jester and Antiquarian are a must have for a rooster. The other C and D ranks are optional but I think these are essential. Jester is a must have for Courtyard runs and the Antiquarian is the best addition to medium runs as the amount of money is helping a lot keeping your party equipt with the best gear and all the right skills. And the money allows you a little more slack for botched runs where you get out almost empty handed.

[@crusadernikolai1996]

0 bleed? Or 68 crit? The duality of man.

[@grimmetal2802]

0 heal and bleed from Occultist is defnitely S tier.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Haha definitely. Perfectly balanced. 66 crit heal to save, 0 and bleed to kill the essence of life and death

[@lechking941]

if this was dnd he would be the player getting avrage over all but than eather ONLY nat 20 or nat 1 at heal skills.

[@romusa10]

@@lechking941 nat 1 is being generous there, dont forget the bleeding lol

[@toad23567]

Hellion should be S-tier because she can and WILL wrestle you to the ground with her toned muscles

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

She is definitely ripped!

[@Uriakatos]

i.redd.it/9elrqtpu4zbz.png

[@linoo9404]

Hellion can whoop all 4 enemy ranks, self heal, has the best stun in the game...

[@gamersagainstweedrepresent]

@@linoo9404 I would argue that PD’s blinding gas is a better stun because she can put down backlines, but I definitely see where you’re coming from with Yawp.

[@mroutcast8515]

Hellion + Man at Arms is freaking gang-banger when you can ping-pong chain Breakthrough with Rampart. Enemy positions 1-3 are fucked and stunlocked.

[@TheValiantBob]

Another idea for tier lists: How about tier list for each dungeon? Each dungeon has different enemies with different abilities, strengths, and weaknesses that different heroes can exploit or struggle fighting.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That would be interesting to do. Thank you for the idea.

[@Thurgor_Supreme]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming Yup! I'd like to see this. Plague Doctor and Occultist are god tier in the cove. And the "marker party" takes the Warrens, hands down (Arba/Musk, Occultist, Houndmaster, Bounty Hunter)

[@rhye_guy7717]

Only about 20% of your list matches with mine and that's what makes the game great. The value of any character is based on how you use them imo.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Absolutely! I honestly do believe most of these heroes have a great spot in your roster which is why I did the force distribution method. It forced me to not put everyone in B or higher, which certainly causes controversy and a little bit of ragging on me (but that is okay, all a part of the fun). Thank you for watching!

[@wernheriiducante1968]

I agree, they are all great in their own terms.

[@skipperg4436]

Hmm my favorite party composition for cleaning Cove dungeons is Antiquarian (1-st position) - Grave Robber (2-nd position) - Highwayman (3-d position) - MAA (4-th position). It works as follows: Antiquarian activates "defend me" on Highwayman. Grave Robber goes invisible. Highwayman and MAA activates Riposte. At the beginning of next round Antiquarian either uses blight on some strong target for grave robber or buffs dodge for the party. MAA either buffs dodge for the party or begins protecting Grave Robber. Alternatively instead of activating riposte at first round MAA activates his buff back than, but he wouldn't be able to use riposte because he would be moved to 4-th position. This party can be screwed by shuffle or by extreme case of speed random that causes MAA to act before the rest of the party during the first round. Stress is healed by crits, health damage is almost non-existent because of how quickly enemy party dies but if it happens you have to rely on food and camping. Other than that party I couldn't invent any other that makes good use of antiquarian. I believe that some other character should benefit from "Defend Me" mechanic just like highwayman do, e.g. if we had a character that deals more damage when he have low hp and can heal itself with its attack. I'd love that character to be an Abomination... (personally I really don't like flagellant design and look; IMHO his "stronger when hurt" mechanic would suit Abomination). If Antiquarian "heal" also removed debuffs (at least bleed or blight not necessary both) and had some good camping healing skill it would easily advance her into A-rank character.

[@SnakeEater776]

I remember when my rank 6 vestal died and because I loved my team my next best was rank 2 so I ended up doing an escort quest to get that vestal to rank six and that's how I made my b team

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Near the end of the game, we have to do that sometimes and it can certainly suck.

[@Babbleplay]

I was today years old when I learned Plague Doctor was a woman.,

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I still struggle to say she after hundreds of hours of gameplay.

[@tayleel8795]

Wife goals

[@bufan7177]

Read the comic

[@zackfake1253]

I refuse to accept that antiquarian is an actual hero, instead she is an optional hard mode for the dungeon that rewards you with bonus money

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

She is rough in the later levels but early on she can at least help a little bit. Not a lot but nearly as bad as champion level dungeons.

[@jayoftheabyss3197]

No mention of Bounty Hunter's most underrated skill, Caltrops. That Damage Received Debuff can take the huge meaty HP bars on high PROT but low Bleed/Blight resist enemies and toss it into a blender. I think what most don't realize (I only figured this out recently myself) is that the Damage Received Debuff effects DoT damage, so combining it with other DoTs makes the damage pile of extremely quickly. Works wonders on the Hag, the Prophet, Swine King, probably a few of the CC bosses (I didn't have a living Bounty Hunter for a lot of my recent playthrough... don't wanna talk about it) In particular I took in Arbalest-Bounty Hunter with CC trinkets-Flagellant-Shieldbreaker into DD3, by the time I'd explored about half of it, I barely needed a second campfire. Stacking the Caltrops Bleed and Debuff on the * ****spoiler for Darkest Dungeon Quest 3******* * Mammoth Cysts, combined with Flagellant's Rain of Sorrows on the Cysts and the Stalks meant they stood no chance. Never got teleported once either. 20-30 Damage Bleed ticks that build up in just a few turns are an absolutely beautiful sight.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Correct about caltrops being a weird interaction with the DOT mechanic in this game. This quest is a good one as well, since you fight multiple enemies at higher hp. The reason why I think most people don't talk about the caltrop combo is because most normal enemies do not have the HP to get up to the point where it is worth it. but for enemies with some protection and over 100hp it is definitely worth it.

[@thexorode]

I will never run Occultist again. He literally bled my level 5 team dry because of RNG.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is fair. He can give a really bad experience based on rng for heals which is why I use him for utility first then heals.

[@MrShanester117]

Go back. He’s awesome

[@thexorode]

You right, bleeding out is pretty awesome if you think about it

[@thespianmask8451]

In my experience, The Houndmaster has always my MVP in any location aside from the Ruins (and maybe the Cove? I generally have the WORST luck in the Cove anyway so there's that).

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Hound masters are great for damage and those stress heals. I think back on it and I would have liked to put him in the A tier now.

[@Owlr4ider]

I think your flexibility stat kind of missed the mark as flexibility is all about party compositions not necessarily viable positions or even row versatility. For example the Vestal is incredibly versatile in that she fits into literally any team composition, barring odd ball ones like 4 Crusaders, 4 Houndmasters, etc. Also she can function in all but the first position, not ideally and obviously build dependent but the 2nd position Vestal isn't just a meme, it actually functions very well in specific team comps. Another factor that should be taken into account is what we'd call carry potential, borrowing from other genres' terminology. The Leper for example is a great carry to build your team around. Most compositions need a healer anyway so taking an Occultist for Weakening Curse isn't much of a sacrifice, similarly taking a Jester to improve his accuracy isn't much of a sacrifice considering Jester's insane utility. So while not the most flexible when you build a party around him you can get an immense pay off. You can also adjust your quirks+trinket choices too if you don't want to be too reliant on a specific party composition. So in the Leper's case you'd obviously prioritize accuracy quirks and trinkets to cover his weakness, reducing if not outright negating the dependency on the Jester to buff his accuracy.

[@michaelcoffey1991]

Had to watch this again thank you so so much for redoing this based on patches and updates.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Any time!

[@joseangelmarinromero5042]

about jester, and Vestal...they are total top tiers, is not about to party composition is about they are the party at least in stygian mode. Seriously no Jester and vestal no party. And not, ocultist is a horrendous healer, he is so dependable like Judas with Jesus.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I understand what you are saying, and they are definitely needed in most parties. That is why I tried to reiterate that the score does not reflect their quantity of use or strength in their role. I did mention near the beginning that weighing different categories could have been a different angle. Such as skills could have been 1 to 10 and if the Jester and Vestal received a 10, they would each move up a tier for sure. Sorry for the long post, but I understand what you are saying. They are crucial to the party, I just think each one can be very one dimensional which hurt a little.

[@Zayonisation]

​@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming the grading seems flawed despite the good math approach behind it it reflects formal education grading where a genius gets an A+ in Physics, Math and Chemistry but flops everywhere de facto he's a B/C student. you can maybe make it stronger via making it a 1 to 10 system, adding healing to damage or somehow trying to measure them who goes well where i.e. plague doctor is horrendous in zones with high blight resistance where Vestal can easily works in every dungeon and every party

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

@@Zayonisation Another category could have been specific dungeons and weighing each category would have changed things. Taking the example given, I do believe though the plague doctor is a strong choice everywhere since she has support skills, control skills, and not all enemies have high blight. Thank you!

[@Zayonisation]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming Glad I could help and thanks for hearing me out! As an ex-pedagogy student, I know grading is awful!

[@fandeadvirus3816]

@@keklard6676 unless you are blessed by rng occultism sucks for heals

[@TheTurtle1100]

Bought this game last week and cannot stop playing! your videos have been a great help! Real quick I’d say houndmaster has quickly become one of my favorite characters in the game. It’s the dodge it’s just to smooth, and if use dodge trinkets man is untouchable. If by some mishap you are hit he even has the self heal. Really love the mark and DoT play style so houndmaster is at least an A in my book. I definitely understand the hate with leper because he’s also one of my favorites. The man just puts out a ton of damage. His dodge is low I think but he’s pretty tanky and worst case has a self heal (and stress) which is really nice. Attacking only two rows is no doubt crippling though. Hwm and maa are in fact my favorites, maa is just the ultimate support and hwm does crazy damage and looks badass doin it

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

The houndmaster is really good and some days I wish I put the hound master in A but what is done is done.

[@OmegaTC666]

I was delighted to see the Occultist getting some love. I use an Occultist almost all the time, since if the enemy is evasive he can mark em and slash their dodge, or if its a tough enemy he can crack that egg over time. Excusing his big 0s with bleeds, he is a must have in my party..... ....just not as a healer XD

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Haha agreed! Thank you for watching.

[@lazardragicevic5096]

I don't like the abomination placement but that's just me being biased and I definitely see where you're coming from but he just shreds through everything when he transforms and the stress inflicted on the party is mostly manageable imo.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I do love me some abomination and that is why I tried to reiterate that the score does not mean bad. It just means they may need some extra love and a party composition that is friendly to them. I do love to rage the third row for 41 crits. Very satisfying.

[@saintpoli6800]

The holy pinwheel is still a terrifying thing... Plague Doctor - Crusader - Crusader - Vestal. Plague stuns the back, Vestal starts hitting the frontline, Crusaders nail the backline.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Holy lance is a super good ability. I do like my some holy lance cycling for sure.

[@antikillz1187]

I’m new to the game, and really appreciate the work and thought you put into this list. Most tier lists in any game are clustered, but yours is set up really well.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you. I liked the method I did, and I may tweak it if I was to do it again, but overall it was fun to make. I hope you enjoy the game!

[@lucasterra8783]

I haven't played DD in a while, but I just wanted to say that the video is really well made and the comment section is amazing. The posters and threads are so thoughtful! Congrats on having such great followers!

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you very much! I think on this channel and the people that post here generally are respectful in their opinions.

[@basvanlierop7802]

I'm not leaving the hamlet without a plague doc ;D

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Heck yeah! I love me some plague doctors.

[@scarlet8078]

This is such a great video & a very creative way of scoring a tier list! If I did the math, I'd probably get something like you did, but when I take into account "intangibles" or "qualitatives" (rather than quantitatives that can easily be scored), I'd make the following tweaks: -- Raise Houndmaster & P-Doctor to join Highwayman & Hellion in S Tier. They both are highly versatile and have high survivability since each has their own stuns, bleeds & self-heals. PD's utility is unmatched in the game, with a 2 mob backline stun, a shuffle stun + clear, & the ability to cure BOTH blight & bleed on himself & another in only 1 turn, safely taking them off D-Door. I also have to acknowledge that they have great trinkets & ability to sit in Position 4 makes me overvalue them in the late-game. I feel there's a shortage of strong backline heroes. -- Lower Shieldbreaker into A Tier. She's a great hero, but doesn't survive as well as those in my S Tier. I think this is due to lack of a stun or self-heal. I find Serpent Sway annoying and I probably don't use it as well as other players do. She's constantly stressed and brinks snakes from dreams when you add her DLC, too. Her dancing around the party also limits her use in various parties. I can almost always fit a Hellion or Highwayman in a party's middle and a PD or HM in the back, but SB requires more planning & therefore gets less use. -- Swap Crusader (up to A) & Flagellant (down to B). Maybe it's because they're so versatile & have high survivability plus a stress heal from anywhere, but I feel like I can never have too many Crusaders in my roster. I realize his lack of speed is a big drawback, but in some ways it's part of his utility bc after others get hit, he's still alive & can bring another hero off D-Door from anywhere. I think if Man-At-Arms & Bounty Hunter are in A Tier, then Crusader should be also. BH does the most damage of those tanks, but Crusader helps the party the most. I just wish marking himself worked more effectively, or he had a guard. Flagellant is good, but just less versatile, more complex, & sees less use for me than these others in A. -- Raise Vestal to B Tier where she'd join Jester & Flagellant. Arguably, she should be in the same tier as Occultist since they're really our 2 party healers, but she is less versatile. Nevertheless, her party heal is probably the best skill in the game. I usually train up 4 Vestals in my roster, more than any other class, so that's saying something. Jester & Flagellant have their place in the game and are super interesting, creative heroes. I just don't use them as much as a lot of others that offer more flexibility. -- Keep G-Robber, Arb/ Musketeer & Leper in C Tier and Abom & Antiquarian in D Tier. I absolutely love GRs, but they just aren't as good as other heroes. She looks great on paper, but I feel like I only get 3.5 heroes when I use her since she's buffing herself or moving half the time & needs certain party comps in order to get the most out of her damage. Arb/ Musk are greatly helped by Crimson Court & other trinkets that allow them to be a main healer, but unless you get those, these almost feel like a wasted class. The stress & healing abilities are just too weak to be worthwhile most of the time. Sure, on the damage side they have mark synergies, but I don't find mark particularly valuable in this game. The main problem is that a marking strategy is just too slow for hallway battles, & then the foes you'd want to use mark on (like bosses) spam too many moves too quickly so the mark falls off. -- Keep Abom & Antiquarian in D Tier. I love the look & concept behind these heroes, but in practice there's never a time I'd rather have them than others. The exception is the beginning of the game when I'll bring an Anti along on "escort missions" like you said, just to gain enough gold for the bank & all my skill + armor/ weapon upgrades. Love your vids! ❤💞

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

It was different but I think it came close to accurate!

[@obct537]

I think it would be an interesting idea to make a video highlighting a few 2-3 hero synergies, or even anti-synergies, if that makes any sense.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I could do something like that. I do have a few party composition videos but those are more in general. I could easily find a two person combo such as I mention in here (Anti and Highwayman, and Grave Robber with the Shield breaker).

[@DecrepitBiden]

I used a flagellant & shieldbreaker to kill the siren. I thought that she couldn't entice your party if you have 2. Wrong. She still enticed my shieldbreaker. So i just whoops her ass with my flagellant.

[@playmsbk]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming I personally really enjoy the vestal-antiquarian-highwayman-maa party, with ripostes and dodge buffs and the vestal healing any damage, while the highwayman just repeats his choreography of duelist advance - point blank shot. The only real problem comes from powerful 4th position stress casters.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I still cannot decide if I should have swapped the hound master and the flagellant. Let me know! I had a blast making this video and cannot wait for the conversations.

[@BartulBartul]

Like I said before (community page) HM is one of the best characters imo. High DMG, marks with -%prot, stress heal/hp, protect team, highdodge, dot, aoe, good for almost every position AND if you give him with 2 dmg trinkets its strong even in ruins. The one disadvantage are camping skills, I only used Hound watch (or sth like that not playing eng version). Really good combo with BH. My favourite party (universal) vestal-hm-bh-hell. But I'm not fan of tier lists in DD, when I started playing this game I thought that there are some good and bad classes, but now when I finished game - every character is good but you need to make good party around it (and trinkets) - even Antiquar can work (but is D for sure xd)

[@maxii6254]

Imo, Flagellant is well deserved. He's got an incredible heal, insane DoT damage, a small but effective heal, a great self stress heal, normal heal, and disease cure for camping abilities and can play both a support and offensive role. I've ran champion dungeons and boss fights with him as the sole healer of the party and depending on how risky I want to play, put on trinkets that either buff his death blow resist/damage + healing. He basically becomes a frontline healer and opens up those back two positions where an Occultist or a Vestal might've been.

[@BartulBartul]

@@maxii6254 I cant say is Flag well deserved or not cus im not playing with dlc. But like I said Im not fan of tierlists DD is game where every character is good if you use them right.

[@maxii6254]

I'm honestly fine with the tier list. Hell, I used to think Houndmaster and Occultist sucked because whenever I used them, my party got obliterated. Turns out, I just wasn't using them right and they're apparently pretty high on the list. Means that they do have potential that I wasn't exploiting.

[@hazeddon]

I would have swapped the houndmaster and bounty hunter personally. BH is solid, but HM does almost everything and can fit in literally every comp at every position except one.

[@siriusblack5575]

Can you also suggest how to build a good roster of heroes? Thanks for your work, it's really helpful!

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is something I can think about for sure.

[@ancientcall7737]

Great video! I really like your content. At the end of the day tier lists can always be discussed and for me they just help to get more insight into different playstyles. For example I value the grave robber more then you do, bc i find her easy to manage, I put her in the back row with the highest dodge possible, and the acc buff she gives herself makes her nice against high dodge targets... Or as an alternative she can always be useful as a blight opener, bc with her speed stats she starts the round and her poison darts debuff the resistance... But these are just my thoughts, like I said, all subjective.. Keep up the good content

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

The grave robber definitely isn't my style, but I do understand how she can be good and why she is. I am not a huge fan of lunge but I have seen and used it good effect though.

[@brianhillman5867]

I feel like you should experiment more with second position vestal. while it limits her healing divine comfort is the better heal, mace bash is decent and you can stun and reveal. And her hp is really good and dmg is ok. I really like 3rd pos Jester and 2nd pos Vestal, just keep on dirk stab if you want her single target heal still on.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I have done the second row vestal and it is not bad in the ruins obviously. There are many ways to play each character, even with my extensive time in the game, there is always more compositions to learn and master. If I played the vestal in the second position more, I may have moved her up in some categories, but it is tough for me to say as of now. Thank you for your comment!

[@JohnPaul-nb5iu]

Second row vestal in the ruins is still out classed by literally any other dps class.

[@seuhtam2778]

I love how no tier list is ever the same. It depends too much on you experience as a player in this game. Everyone mostly agree with Highwayman being an obvious S tier and Abomination being in the low tiers, but the rest mostly anything goes. For some people houndmaster is a high S tier, Crusader S tier, Helion being B tier, Vestal being way above occultist and so on. I like it a lot how this game is a different experience for everyone who plays it.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I absolutely agree. I felt that I was very objective, but at the end of the day, I am familiar to my experiences and my party compositions. There are also, way more factors than the 5 I have here. So these could easily change with new categories and experiences. Thank you for commenting!

[@seuhtam2778]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming No problem dude, i love those discussions too. Thanks a lot for answering, just found out your channel last month and gave checked it out most of your vids by now. Keep it up with the good work dude. Btw have you played the sunward isles mod and classes? I feel like is one of the best if not the best mod for this game and would love to know your opinion about it.

[@MisterTonyG]

I like how you evenly divided the tiers up. I know there is no "right" way to do a tier list, but I find this way interesting.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you. It made some controversial topics but that's the point of lists!

[@1God1Fury]

Crusader's low speed what really holds him back from being a great hero. I used to use Crusader only in Ruins, but over time I use in other areas as well. Mainly because he is the only hero where he can use his stress heal in any position, opening more options for heroes in 3th and 4th position, where usually stress healers are. But I do appreciate his good raw damage and his entire tankiness to survive multiple hits.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I felt very similar which is why he was at the weird cusp of being an A or possibly a C.

[@stuflames4769]

Indeed. It's the speed. Crusader's stress heal doubles to pings people off death's door, Holy Lance can either combo or simply help correct an out of position character or group, he has a bit of stun and his damage and health are both tops and his resistances are solid. There are few groups he can't slide into effectively, and there a good number of groups he excels in. His camping skills are also great for managing stress, and include a no ambush. He's a great all-around package, except... his darn speed.

[@benza8946]

Abomination D tier, you a hater ? No but seriously that's not deserved. Abomination has incredibly good hp, speed ( important for a stunner) and base damage. He has imho the best trinket of the Color dlc, but also his other trinkets are nice,good camping skills. he works in position 2 and 3 , which means wherever he gets shuffled, you just need to move him 1 position to fix him immediately. Also the fact that you are dealing good damage while stunning is incredibly valuable for setting up kills. Last his beast form, a bulky very high raw single target and aoe damage dealer, strong pick in a lot of boss fights

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I will start off by saying I am not a hater of any class. I think I tried to say that about 3 to 4 times and I have used the Abomination to great success before. I can see why people really like the abomination and his physical stats are really good. I suppose I was thinking before trinkets (though I may have broken that rule occasionally), since the trinkets would have created even more subjective categories and styles. His stun chance does go through the roof with his CoM trinket and his trinkets are pretty good. Finally, I am not a huge fan of the support abomination since only having two support skills, does not allow enough situational variety for me. I think the plague doctor is better but does fill a separate row position and is not able to do raw damage like the abomination can. I appreciate your comment and thank you for watching!

[@benza8946]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming just joking ofc about the hater part. You made a good example tho for one of my arguments, PD has stuns that deal 0 damage and also can't stun position 1 , thus you're not doing any progress or setting up crucial kills, you are just "wasting" one of your turn for one of theirs. In my experience this helped me so much, idk if I explained this point well

[@Amateur2CombaT]

Hey there , I m not sure if you wanna talk about your tier list almost 1 year after but in case of , here are my thoughts ^^ Well first I wanna say I really enoyed your vid once again , clean editing clean voice clear ideas , really great work ma dude. I had fun doing your tier list with your criterias and ended up with about the same list as yours. My main differences were that I have Houndmaster significantly higher at 20 points cause I think his skills are pretty damn good (stress heal is top notch and one of the 2 guards in the game) also is very party friendly being able to play in position 2 3 4 or even 1 if need be. I have Arbalest at 18 points, row +1 (from 3 to 4), damage +1 (from 2 to 3) , stats +1 (from 2 to 3) , her sniper shot can target rank 2 3 4 , she does decent dmg imo especially considering she doesnt need accuracy boosts and she is actually very tanky. Maybe I m biased on her but honestly and I played between 1500 and 2000 hours of DD , I can't remember the last time an Arbalist disapointed me. Like I don' t have more than 3 per campaign but they always do good. U can fish for crits with Bolas or use rallying flare for stress heal and yes it s not amazing numbers but it adds up , same for her heal , versatile solid char, if she had speed she d be top tier imo. Anyway , just details and more for the sake of discussing since I pretty much agree with everything u said haha. Thx for the high quality DD content bro , keep it up ^^

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you for taking the time to do your response! I know the arbalest is good but for some reason she never really worked with my play style. Regarding the houndmaster, I think I would go back now and change a little bit with him. It was a tough decision during and I go back and forth today about his ranking.

[@ElZenom]

Really love the breakdown. I believe if you put a list at the bottom right to show people the "situation" that you should use these guys in, it'll get across easier, as the hero became more situational as you go down the tiers. Although it'll make it more complicated, I think ranking based on map can help.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is an interesting idea. Thank you for that, if I do this in future videos I will try to keep the situations in mind.

[@jelenamatic5860]

I was so heartbroken to see graverobber in c tier. She is one of the funnest to play with and her crits...devine 👌 but I understand. I would live to see a reworked version of this list where you take everything in consideration from what dungeons are they good for to what party comps they can run etc. 😊

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

There are a few categories where I could have added or weighed differently. I think two major reasons caused me to put the grave robber in a lower tier is, she has high dodge which can give the illusion of strong survivability but not really, and she can really only do major damage in certain shuffle lineups. But, she is super strong and definitely has a place in certain lineups because her quick nuke lunge damage is undeniable.

[@Letaq_]

My favorite squad is femme fatale Vestal-Plaque Doctor-Grave Robber-Hellion.

[@religion_of_rage]

hands down the best tier list of DD classes till now

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you!

[@DanielMartinez-pg8zo]

Creepy Kid if you wanna see another good tier list, you should give ShuffleFM DD tier list a watch, different styles but just as informative

[@phiavir5594]

I'm kinda stunned how disrespected the Vestal is. Take her out the game and you have an infinitely more infuriating experience. Its kinda funny considering how she's in like 90%of the video footage here. Its almost like she's a key class in most parties. Looking at her damage and frowning is why looking at it objectively doesn't work. She not only keeps parties collectively off deaths door in dire situations, but also keeps the party healed up through stalling for those long dungeons. Judgement and dazzling are still great skills and should merely be seen as bonus damage when you dont need the heals. What else is there for survival... Occultist? Catastrophe waiting to happen and won't save a party wipe. If you're using crusaders as a replacement you're basically wasting big damage for a small heal... which is just the reverse of the complaint that the Vestal trades small damage for the only heal skillset in the game that's both reliable and worth a turn use.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

First off thank you for watching and commenting. I understand your argument as many have made. Necessity can mean good but I still think of her as an average hero. If you gave another hero aoe heals she would possibly be rivaled for top healer immediately. She is in a majority of my footage because the designers sadly made it the only reliable choice for heals. Once again you can decide if frequency and necessity means good but I did try to look past that. Also I could have weighed skills to be 50 percent which would have put her at A most likely.

[@Klaital1]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming Vestal is really only good because of how ridiculously broken op Divine Comfort is, apart from that one skill she is quite average. However, since that is literally the only skill in the game that can heal the whole party, it carries her otherwise mediocre kit to a level where she is more or less mandatory in some boss fights.

[@yuushamenma2130]

​@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming In any tier list of any game, if a character is omnipresent then that means they are A-S tier regardless of how they look on paper. If a character is used extremely frequently, they are meta defining. You always factor in frequency and necessity.

[@Uriakatos]

Personally I love the Houndmaster and Hellion. If barks were a category they would win for sure. "What is it girl? Have they turned on us?" "I will FEAST on your HEART."

[@alexl3438]

My favorite set up is definitely rank 4 occultist, 3rd rank hound master, 2nd rank bounty hunter, and 1st rank shield breaker. I give bounty hunter vulfs trophy, SB the mark spear trinket, the HM a few speed trinkets, and OCC the prophets eye. Use the occultist to mark the back row enemies then use HM and SB to take out the back row and BH to mess up the front line with uppercut and come hither. Makes the Weald pretty trivial by having essentially 3 pull skills, 3 possible marks, and 2 people being able to hit any position.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you for sharing!

[@jaimecastro3194]

Arbalest and Musketeer are MVP. Leper is KING of champion weald. My favorite characters together with Grave Robber.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you for sharing!

[@WeedSmoker69]

dawg you should add onto this tier list by ranking the popular modded new classes

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I am playing with some modded characters right now so I may!

[@tomasplanicka2539]

Very good list, but I feel it is not fair to give highwayman party skills top when you have heroes like man at arms and jester. He just provides pure damage and riposte and that's how he should be evaluated

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Fair enough. The highwayman is definitely not much a team player when it comes to his skills for the team. Grapeshot blast is about as much "support" or utility for other people.

[@runningchicken3956]

The real hero here is houndmaster who protects his dog (or hound) with his own body

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

This is true. Thank you for watching!

[@runningchicken3956]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming You literally stood at ,,Death's door" for over a year just to answer a boi who likes dawgs

[@fuertelocoyyy]

ceo que te equibocastecon la disposición del vandolero y la Médico de la PLaga, intercambiaría sus lugares...subiria a la doctora

[@doublecrossedswine112]

Speed shmeed Crusaders are what I need

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Completely agree. I love me some crusaders.

[@Longknife]

Putting Vestal anywhere below Top Tier seems like a failure of the assessment system. Vestal getting poor scores in damage and stats is absolutely meaningless if, as stated, she's practically vital to the squad and hands down the best healer in the game. She's the only classes that can protect multiple people from Death's Door at once, and ranking her below S-tier just feels like you got waaaaaaaaay too systematic and choose to average out her ranks instead of acknowledge you can be hands down the best in one category and garbage everywhere else and still prove vital. The tiers should ask "how vital is this character to the party/can anyone do this person's job better" and not simply ask how their damage is even if they're not built for damage.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I mention this briefly in the video, but there is a/possible flaw in the equal 20% distribution of categories. Such as, we could make team composition worth 60% and all other forms 10% which would have put the vestal into an easy A or S tier. I do not deny your argument for vital/necessity as making a character good or in a higher tier. My thought process was, if they made another character capable of aoe healing I wonder how fast the vestal stock would drop and we may have to wait until DD2 to see. Thank you for watching and commenting.

[@rocklopster3287]

Vestal in the 4th spot, Crusaders in 2 and 3rd Abomination in 1st spot. We almost all died! Barely won by focusing on just the Shrieker. Got my trinkets back!

[@Armstrong1781]

May you live a happy life THANK YOU

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you and you too!

[@cragraven]

I’d say Crusader belongs in low A tier, but the main reason he does well is that he fits into teams that are already good. His damage is pretty good, and the stun and stress heal are great kit additions. His movement is pretty fucked without holy lance, but as a static frontline hero he does well. However, I feel like I add him in my runs whenever the team is already good, teams are never really built around him.

[@ArrvaxxJr]

Abominations are for boss fights or good for multiple abomination teams. Burst damage is crazy if you stack Rake and his ability to heal himself and cure stress at a high level is pretty sweet. His crit bonuses are also pretty nuts

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

He can definitely burst some bosses with a nice damage trinket or two.

[@kaptainkokujin4986]

I'm with you on most of this, but (and hear me out on this one) why don't overlook all of his flaws, give Leper 30 points solely for his massive damage capability and whack him in S tier?

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I would love to! He is my favorite character and that damage is disgusting without much set up. Thank you for watching.

[@TheChosenOne462]

Antiquarian doesnt help you win the fight but the war

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Definitely the early part of the war. I always have one, but only one.

[@boshmi7776]

Abomination is obscenely good in the endless harvest. If you spam rake you can end up with an AOE attack that is self-buffed to do 25% damage MORE than a regular attack, not to mention that you only need to transform once so you're only dealing stress to the party right at the beginning of the harvest. If you consider his beast form alone he's one of my favorite DPS classes, but of course you probably want a jester and vestal to put out stress and hp heals. As for antiquarian - I'm always vexed as to how heavily people underestimate her buffs. Yes, her heals and DOTS are genuinely the worst in the game, but a party-wide repeatable +10 dodge buff that can stack three times gives you party-wide +30 dodge in three turns. That's +60 dodge on EVERY PARTY MEMBER if you bring two of her. With dodge undoubtedly being the most OP mechanic in darkest dungeon I honestly think she rivals the houndmaster as the de-facto dodge class.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I really do like the buffs of the antiquarian and I believe I mentioned she is close to being a broken character. I just think the developers got scared and capped her out a bit.

[@jcbro86]

I really liked your video and agree with pretty much everything. I too have a soft spot for the leper but especially on tougher enemies he can struggle to hit. One thing I’ve noticed that puts vestal higher to me, is she has alot of crit potential on her heals. It’s nice to try and heal a guy and get bonus health as well as stress reduction.

[@DecrepitBiden]

Try a party with 2 highwayman, jester, vestal. Just spam point blank shot between the 2 highwayman. Make sure 1 has faster speed in spot 1. Only flaw is when the enemy's spot 1 is stealth. I don't really ripost nor use blight, bleed, stun. Just raw dmg. Most fights are done by end of round 2. Sometimes round 1.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

@jcbro86 the vestal is probably the most common hero people had issues with me on and I can understand. It can be hard to separate vital from good. In my mind, I use a car analogy, if I have only one car that is the best car I have despite how bad it may be. The vestal is the only true strong healer thus she appears/is vital to the party. Thank you for watching!

[@tungnguyen6464]

nice work, but i have to admit that it depend on your play style. You want the least rng, than vestal must be A tier, you want some strange combo than your thinking is right. I think we should consider the aspect relate to the most popular team for each dungeon. For instance i use a sold comp like vestal jester/ hound master and 2 shieldbreaker for crimson court, farmstead and wealds, warren. Image i can kill them all with 1 single turn or 3 crusader for ruins PD Hellion and MaM is good through

[@jamesduckworth4916]

“fledgling”

[@potawatadingdong]

I love the Abomination but admittedly don't use him that much. The biggest downside I have with him is the need to bring a Jester along.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

For the transformation side, he definitely needs a dedicated stress healer.

[@MrStinkels]

I agree with almost everything. I would just put vestal, plague doctor and hound master a bit higher. Vestal makes the game a lot easier though has some serious row problems. Same for plague doctor. Houndmaster deserves to be higher just by being one of the most versatile character in the game.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you for watching! I do agree that hound master could have moved up. The vestal I can understand why.

[@Razielts1]

I agree with the tier list it's great. Very balanced, objective and thought of! My go to parties are: Holy Light- Crusader, Vestal, Arbalest, Leper ( Aoe frontline damage, sustain and light increase to save on torches, add dungeons that drop food and it's a great way to save money ) Money Machine- Antiq, Highway, Veteran, any healer ( Highway and veteran synergize together, occultist for example keeps the party topped off so antiquarian can keep raking the money ) Blood for the blood god- Flagellant, Hellion, jester, houndmaster ( Bleed stacking, stress healing and massive heals and regen from the Flagellant ) Toxic relationship - Shield breaker, abomination, grave robber, plague doctor ( Blight stacking, shuffles, Buffs, and burst damage ) Death mark- Mercenary, highway, grave robber, musketeer ( Mark and kill )

[@francescofoschi8941]

I really think that the hound master is an A tier, especially when combined with the bounty hunter imo

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I would have to watch the video again, but I could easily put him up there and swap out the flag.

[@guyunderwood2297]

I get that you were trying to be somewhat objective by creating a scoring rubric but I think your rubric doesn't accurately evaluate some aspects of the game. I also think that even using your rubric you misevaluated some of the heroes. For instance, the HWM might be the premier damage dealer in the game because of Riposte but I think they should have been scored a D or C in terms of party composition. Firstly, they only deal damage. They don't stun, heal, self heal, or support in any way. This doesn't make them bad, it just means they only fit in parties where the other 3 members handle everything else and only need a damage dealer. Secondly, because of their best Skill moving them forward they only fit in parties that can account for that. It's not difficult to accommodate but it definitely decreases party flexibility. For instance, you really don't want to start a HWM in pos2 wity a HEL in pos1 because he will almost certainly act before the HEL and turn off Iron Swan turn 1. You can compensate by putting the HWM in pos3 but that means whoever you put in pos2 has to be able to operate in pos2 or pos3 otherwise you'll be in trouble if they act before the HWM or the HWM gets stunned. Again, this doesn't make them bad it's just something that would make me rate their flexibility as less than an A or S. I also think the character most misevaluated is the Houndmaster. He's the most versatile hero in the game bar none in my opinion. He is incredibly strong in pos2, 3, and 4 and while he doesn't want to be in pos1 because he loses Hound Rush he still has enough good skills that he wouldn't be dead weight there. He's also versatile in terms of what role he plays in the party. He's a solid damage dealer because Hounds Rush hits all positions and can be used anywhere but pos1. Blackjack is one of the better stuns in the game only missing enemies in pos4. He can heal stress from the party. He is one of only 2 characters with a guard skill. He has a self heal. The only thing he can't do is heal others or heal bleed/blight. He would easily be the most OP hero in the game with the smallest of tweaks: either making Blackjack useable from pos3 or making Cry Havoc useable from pos2 or making Lick Wounds useable on allies. No other hero is that close to being broken.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

First off, thank you for putting your time and energy into this post and video. It is entirely possible and probable the system miscalculated people, since it was an even distribution that was subjectively scored by one person. The party composition friendliness was for how well they can function between rows 1 to 4 and how well they handled being shuffled. That is why he scored very high in that category; I understand that you are talking whole party. I also understand he only does damage, but he can kill people in stealth with riposte (famous example is the fusilier), stop DoT’s if the attacker dies, stop stress damage attacks if he kills the attacker (and if they attack itself does damage), do critical strikes not on his turn healing his stress (and maybe others), and getting rid of enemies quicker for less attacks and turns. He may not offer the direct utility you see on other characters, but he is one of the best preventative characters with riposte on. The intense damage and speed he offers can really allow you to skate by without having a direct stress healer and I did this often in my Stygian run. He will need a healer, but most people in the game cannot heal others or their self very well and still output the damage needed for clean dungeon runs. Finally, the hound master is really good and that is why I was okay with people arguing for him to be an A. I was on the fence for a while and on any given day I could easily swap him and the flagellant around. I would still prefer to have a highwayman over a hound master for personal reasons but I can understand why you would prefer it the other way. Thank you for commenting and feel free to keep this conversation going if you want to!

[@guyunderwood2297]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming Thanks for the reply. Your explanation for what you meant by team comp makes sense and I understand your S rating on the HWM now. I did already agree with his overall position atop the list because despite doing one thing he does it that well.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I would have to listen to the video again, but I should have named it differently. Thank you for the reply!

[@umutyigit4918]

One idea but would take way more time would be to make multiple tiers each for different areas. For example the "Last crusade" has helped me ruin the ruins but crusader is not as good in other areas. Or the Flagellent having good bleed which is useless in the ruins. Then there is the overall tier list which would take the overall effectivness of the unit.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Ultimately that is what we do as players, but that would have been a very long video if I went into significant depth. It is a fun idea and I could have possibly added a region versatility ranking. Thank you for your comment!

[@A129WOLFY]

my favorite character is bounty hunter, especially since some of the things he says make me smile

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

The bounty hunter is really nice!

[@pohateos9394]

Leper is honestly too low, yes his accuracy is low to start but with a few weapon upgrades, skill upgrades and trinkets he is hits more than he misses. He has a self buff to increase dog, crit chance and accuracy, has a self heal/self stress heal, and a swing that can delete front line enemies. Nothing better then having a jester buff a buffed Leper to one shot enemies... Plus you can cheese the finnaly fight and one shot the heart of darkness ;)

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is true about killing the boss! It's tough because I feel that the leper needs a little help to reach his potential where other characters do not. I do understand your points though.

[@pohateos9394]

@O K umm with a properly leveled and geared leper their accuracy can hit 130+ (not counting camping skills and quirks) so they hit WAY more than they miss. His ability to self heal, self stress heal and buff in position 1 is under rated. His ability to completely neuter the enemy front line with knock back or one shots will save you more actions then he uses.

[@crastorhale7438]

Great video once again. I have actually started using the cultist more in a support role as well and it has worked out rather well so far. His heals for 0-2 are still nauseating though 😒

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

His heals are definitely frustrating hence why most people have a hesitation for him. He is definitely the definition risk versus reward in that terms.

[@HildrTV]

I would have to disagree with how this tier list was made. Damage isnt everything.... plague doctor has one is not tge best stuns in the game. She focus backline stress dealers can apply blight to front and back rows can cure bleeds and blight. Has good camp skills and vapors is good for bosses. Shes basically the best control/ suppirt unit

[@1mealer]

if you do a DD tier list and it doesnt result in PD and Crusader in S I have to question the usefulness of the methodology

[@13dracus]

My personal experience with the Occultist is somewhat skewed, since I use a mod that changes how his heal works (mainly in that it doesn't bleed, and that it always heals for at least five hp, at the cost of having a lower maximum amount healed).

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That would be really nice and I think that is why most people dont like him. The big 0 :(

[@MrVhatever]

it seems there is a bit of double counting in these categories. I'd personally remove "damage" since damage has to be filtered through skills. Even if the skills are essentially good, you then need the stat to do the damage. So damage is being filtered through both skills and stats and yet they are counted again on their own. Even bleeds/blights will require accuracy. Not only does this overate damage abilities, but it actively reduces the score of non damage abilities by having a whole other category diluting its score. For instance, if vestal's comfort healed all party members to 100% no one would give a damn about her damage output and she would be considered universally the best in the game. in your system though she'd still come up average, Also i'm not sure what you are considering as far as row positioning, I commonly run crusader in the 1-3 spots, but never in a million years would I run a Helion outside of 1 or 2. Helion is also complete and utter trash at 4, below average in row 3, while the crusader still has heal, stess heal, and high damaged to the 2, 3, 4 enemies in those very same rows. But you have helion at A and crusader at B. Not trying to trash Helion or your list though just question how impartial this analysis is or accurate for that matter. Helion would certainly go in my top 3 if i made a list. Helion, houndmaster, and vestal are the three characters I never want to have less than 2 in my roster on the business end of the game. That side, there is no way higwayman would be anywhere near the top of my list. He's only good at dealing damage yet pretty poor at dealing it to rows 3 and 4. Outside of bosses , those rows are where 90% of your problems in DD are going to come from.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

First off thank you for watching. Some of the fields do blend together a little, and that can make the skills/damage separation a little hard. I did try to take the persons base weapon damage first and then skills as an after thought. That can be tough to do with DOT people or people who gain/lose damage through skills. More utility characters did get lower and what I have offered before was balanced more of the score towards general skills and that would have brought up utility characters more and dropped some of the damage people. Finally, I do think the highwayman is really good as his riposte can hit the third position well. As you mentioned he will need someone to take care of position 4, but his riposte and point blank can quickly take down other enemies. This will allow the rest of your party to stun or focus that last position if it is needed.

[@knguru2003]

i mostly agree with the list, and i like your aproach. 2 things i would change, i would put the vestal on the s tier, and the jester in a. i dont care about the stats when we talk about suports, but when you have 3 caracters at death's door with dots on them, if you dont have a vestal in your party you might not even have the chance to retreat.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I do understand those arguments, but I felt weird putting a single character in S tier for literally 1 skill. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts!

[@benjamingillam1218]

Houndmaster should be higher. It fits into many parties, is ok with shuffling, it can hit the back line for good damage, and is pretty much mandatory for 2 boss fights (flesh and The Shrieker). Dog treats are situationally very useful, giving you extra accuracy and damage against the Tuff enemies that start appearing in champion dungeons. I also 100% disagree with the bounty hunters A placement. His problem is he is never the best option as a melee unit. He is relatively low damage unless the target is marked or stunned, which requires that another hero marks or stuns before him. Moving enemies is a weak gimmick, it is often resisted, and isn't worth itemizing for. Also his camp skills are garbage. I would say a houndmaster is better than Bountyhunter in pos 2/3 90% of the time, and either a hellion, crusader, or leper will be better in pos1.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I do think after a few years of reflection I would move the hound master up. The Bounty hunter is an odd one as his damage is never the best but he can feel useful almost any where. I do understand your criticisms though.

[@immortalhybrid7570]

Why is this game so addicting

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Lots of choices!

[@romusa10]

Me who just played this game for 6 days : man, cant wait to see how my best boi leper doing in the list Oh....

[@reidsjaaheim8237]

Hellion. I haven't been as impressed as others are. At the hardest difficulties, damage alone is not a viable strategy. Her stun and position advance skill both debuff her damage, which is really bad. Especially considering that's why you brought her to begin with. Again, at hardest difficulties, skills (stun, shuffle, heal, stress heal, cover) are more important than doing moderately more damage. I would put her in C.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I admit some of her skills do not allow her to function well past as the fight progresses. I think her row versatility and damage are still really good.

[@dino3965]

Yeah i see everyone hyping up the hellion but ive never been that impressed, the stun is awesome but everything else is mediocre

[@alexgalays910]

@@dino3965 Naa. 50% of the reason to take her is for very high damage to rank 4.

[@dino3965]

@@alexgalays910 its decent but it has bad accuracy and her low speed needs to be taken into account too, imo there are much better rank 4 attacks. flagellant, plague doctor, shieldbreaker, hound

[@altioc]

A great stun, good damage and the ability to hit every position is just incredibly strong for a damage dealer. Damage isn't as crucial as other things but you do need damage and shes definitely a top choice in that regard.

[@Goofygooberston]

The thing with DD and tiering the heroes is that everyone generally is going to be so freaking split on nearly everything apart from highwayman and abom because of their individual biases. And rightfully so. In a game that's so heavily dependent on RNG and only gives you limited flexibility in improving your RNG, people's experiences are going to differ so much. Sure, someone might make occultist work because they happen to get lucky at the right time, then there's me who loses an entire team because he just flatout kept hitting low rolls. I personally don't even rank clases like this at all, I look at the *potential*(because even with high hit chance, luck can screw you) consistency of all classes divided by specific roles, IE: debuffer/support, healer, frontliners. For me in particular, Leper is just horrible because of his awful accuracy, mix that with accuracy lowering dungeons later on and unless you build specifically around it, he's going to miss a lot. In a game like this with a grind, that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Thank you for watching and commenting! I do agree the more reliable heroes in terms of rng are typically near the top since they obviously give you the most consistent results. I do like the Leper and Occultist but they can hamper your party though if you are a little unlucky.

[@erykczajkowski8226]

A fun exercise you did there, and a difficult one! I think you got things pretty good. I'm actually surprised that 'hard numbers' scored Mr Highwayman the highest. He is strong, I agree, he fits in many composition, but I don't really like him as he feels like he belongs to none of them. There are no strong synergies (there's just potential moving synergy and fringe case of Antiquarian), mainly just damage. One thing that I'm missing in your score system is recoverability support. Some fights will not go well and you need to prolong them to heal/remove stress. Especially HWM lacks this skill. He has nothing to offer here, he is pure offense. Moreover, his reposte can prematurely kill an opponent you want to live. Another point of view is boss fights vs standard dungeon run. In the boss fight you want to survive and costs don't matter. In the dungeon run you want to end in good shape. There are heroes which are excellent in SOME boss fights (MAA for Vvulf, Leper for Swine/Prophet), but not necessarily great for the runs. I disagree with the high position of Mr MAA. He is decent, he is useful in some boss fights, but he just lacks. His only excellent skill is his stun, which is accurate and reliable, he also has a great trinket to improve it (but this trinket... lowers his damage). His mace attack is pretty inaccurate (which needs to be taken into account), his riposte is worse than HWM's and in support role his is worse than Jester, OCC or even... Antiquarian with her insane dodge buff! When I have him I just prey not to encounter the Collector, as he just can't help much in this fight... For me the best character is Ms Hellion (I don't have DLCs). She is absolutely insane R1 fighter. She can attack any position, she can heal herself from blight/bleed and she can STUN (recoverability support!)! Unlike other heroes she is great for every dungeon location, and for both dungeon runs and boss runs (and she can be used against ANY BOSS! and that includes both Shambler and Collector!) - that is insane! I'd also move higher the Houndmaster (very versatile, recoverability support) and Jester (his lack of damage is a bit misleading, as he boosts the damage of other characters! + has recoverability support!) at the cost of MAA and Bountyhunter who is a little bit too inaccurate for A rating. It's a pity that Grave Robber and PG are so low. They are fun classes, but it is a sad reality. However, low position of Vestal suggests that the rating logic you used is... imperfect. ;) If she had better abilities she would be completely broken. I wish the game was balanced somehow to allow for more trinkets to be able to customize characters more. It would enable more interesting strategies. There are mods that enable more trinkets, but without some kind of balancing it just makes the game much easier. PS. How about a vid on party compositions?

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

As always, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! What I will say is, the system is subjective in scoring thus it will be imperfect because there are too many things to score and situations. I will respond to a couple of points here and you can feel free to continue this conversation if you want. The HWM is probably the best damage dealer when beefed up in his melee form. He is also fast, decent base damage, good row versatility and can avoid stress by killing stress damage dealers on riposte. The MAA his damage is indeed basic but his bellow skill and bolster really allow you to control the fight in the second round. Also the stun is pretty cool. Finally the houndmaster, probably should have swapped with the flagellant :)

[@erykczajkowski8226]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming That's true, there are too many variables. Riposte prevents stress damage when the attacker is killed? Really? I didn't now that, haven't noticed either. Regarding MAA - the problem with bellow is that it is a debuff. So it must not miss and not be resisted - it has 2 chances to fail (and will fail more likely for the ones you really want to debuff ;), as they have higher dodge and resists). Bolster is nice, but it is a one off. Jester is so much better in this buffing role and it's guaranteed. Stun and caping skills (which are great) are just not enough. I wish the battles were 5 against 5. It would enable some more interesting combos. 4 vs 4 is a bit too restrictive - you always need a healer, often you also need a stress healer - that leaves not much room for teamplay between remaining charcters...

[@YMDIJ]

Hmm, in general i agree with most of your grading though I would personally put houndmaster in S tier simply because of his over the top versatility, it can do almost anything and actually do them well. Vestal would be A tier on my list as much as i hate to, simply because there aren't many healers around and she's the premium one. i would personally put occultist in B tier as well because although it is very versatile, he's subpar at all of them. Edit: my favourite class is jester so im heavily biased, B is still acceptable i guess so i shall not complain too much

[@Lunamana]

There's no reason for vestal and abomination to be that low, they're great stunners, vestal can get HUGE heals with the correct trinkets and abomination has a self heal + stress heal in 1 ability which makes up for his lack of damage, antiquarian also has the unique benefit of getting you rich so it's pretty hard to rate her in this list. If i were to pick 2 classes for D tier it'd be grave robber, leper, arbalest or jester (because the only reason to use him is for stress heals). I'd also probably put Plague doctor and crusader in A tier while occultist, bounty hunter and flagellant probably deserve B tier (Plague doctor might not be the best pick because most mobs have high blight resist atm which makes me hate myself, but she's amazing at clearing dots at higher levels). Bounty hunter because he just sucks, his camping skills are the best things about him but i don't like to rate characters off of 4 battles per dungeon. Flagellant because getting below 40% HP is really unreliable and he's permanently on death's door, getting me nervous every single time (usually ends up fine because he's really fast but can be quite the pain in the ass). Flagellant's stress heal is probably the best thing about him by far but with his low damage and dangerous playstyle he's someone i don't like taking into my teams but have to for his stress heal capabilities and tankiness. There's a very simple reason for occultist being B tier, and that's because of his 0 heals. I love taking him into the cove with plague doctor and loading him with damage trinkets, but that's his best scenario. As a final note: Highwayman, Shield Breaker and Hellion being broken makes using other damage classes pretty useless in and of itself, if you have any of those 3 classes in your team you're very unlikely to run into any damage/rank issues. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

[@guilhermedom2228]

6:57 I know Obi-wan... *COF* *COF* I mean Occultist, you gonna be a fine addtion to my team

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Haha yep :)

[@guilhermedom2228]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming General HiDdeN, I wasn't expecting a heart, a surprise to be sure but a welcome one

[@Gray_Mann]

I agree abomination is D tier, that aside, he is my favorite character, he's tough to use but when he pops off, oooo its so good. Also he just looks really cool.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

He's a great character and with the dlc his stun gets really strong.

[@FatWalterWhite69]

I think you judged heroes based on stats too much. Trinkets are a huge part of a heroes kit. Some heroes have very overwhelming/underwhelming trinkets. Also not all categories are made equal, and some deserve more than a 5

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I could have weighted certain categories for sure. I didn't because it would have been difficult to decide how weighted and then the ending number. Trinkets are an interesting angle but I left them out because of the dlcs and you also need to have that trinket. Certain trinkets do lift heroes much higher and is a good consideration for your party.

[@brubcruz]

Nice video! Love the Antiquarian and Abomination XD Of couse use her atack skill is totally useless, just keeping her buffin dodge and dont need to worry with anything else.. I completed the "Lighting the Way" mission with an antiquarian comp. But I agree with you rank list and also think that heroes who work in any position like highwayman and shieldbreak are overpowered,,, I mean why take the risk of musket/arbalest, leper, etc if other do the same or better?

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

The antiquarian and abomination do have good line ups, I just think they are more niche characters which is not a problem. As you said, the top people just have so much diversity in positions and hitting the enemy they out shine most people.

[@skyisclear8461]

This is great! I didn't really find myself disagreeing with most things you say and not at all with your rankings. I would argue that the Jester isn't reliant on being in pos 3/4 because you can start with a bleed, dirk stab or buff and then a second turn finale, or even a first turn finale to get him back, and so he is great in a good shuffle party. I also think you're a bit harsh on the Abom as I think he synergises well with others; he is also a tank and can stress heal himself and his stun is great. You criticise the Crusader for having poor mobility without Holy Lance but I personally do always equip it as his stress heal is so terrible, so that would place him higher. But these are really only minor quibbles and otherwise I was nodding my head.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I would agree that I got stuck on certain aspects of each hero based on my most successful experience with them. Obviously, I have not played each hero to their full capacity or to their best line up. That is the beautiful thing about darkest dungeon, so I can see how I was more focused on the support Jester rather than his damage moving alternatives. Then the exact opposite for the crusader. Thank you for your comment!

[@skyisclear8461]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming No problem! As you said in the video, the whole point was to kick-start discussion, and it did! What it shows is how versatile the game is, and how passionate we all are about it.

[@andreip7849]

Maybe it s because i m still a beginer idk,but still.How is Vestal not in S tier?Like how do you heal in a longer run?You can t just pass rounds without taking damage.Maybe with a lot of food,but that takes some money

[@Jeremy-dk8tz]

I would have put the damage of crusader one more point (look at the background)

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Someone else said that, maybe I should have. I was trying not to be bias towards my two favorite sword religious boys (Crusader and Leper). I guess I was thinking outside the ruins and when he runs into protection based enemies. However, he is definitely on the higher end of damage naturally with his weapon.

[@lolon7550]

i honestly think doing tier list this way screws with it because it heavily rewards generalists over specialists which is just not true

[@BlizzardAcolyte]

Pretty much impossible for me to provide much input for two reasons...or rather, two factors that you did not include in your calculations: - Camping utility, as you briefly brought up in the video: the fact is, Camping is a part of the majority of your questing (if you're playing smart and if you play the game the whole way through) and cannot be ignored, since it can be rolled into the Party Friendliness tiering and as a separate factor, can itself be broken down into multiple sub-categories, dramatically shifting the utility of some classes - Region versatility: as I was taught a few months into my play, you can choose what region to go into on a given Week, and the more regions that a particular class can go into without being utter deadweight, the more often you'll use it...and the more practice/experimentation you'll have with it...and the faster you can master it. The number of regions a class can be good in can also be rolled into Party Friendliness and Skills tiering

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I thought about adding camp skills as a category, but I didn't since they can only be accessed during medium and long dungeons. It felt odd to add something that may not be possible if you are running a short dungeon. Not to say that was the right choice, just something I decided to not do for this style of video (but campfire skills are huge in the character reviews). The region one would have been a cool idea and if I was to redo it, I may have made that its own section.

[@ToriToriUwU]

Seeing abomination and vestal in one party is probably one of the least and at the same time most cursed things i've seen in darkest dungeon 11:30

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I didn't play the game when it initially came out but having the two together is pretty fun.

[@ToriToriUwU]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming wait, you can now use him with vestal? I thought you were playing modded. I played darkest dungeon a bit in 2016, and when i came back in late 2019 i never tried putting them together just because i was used to them being unable to fit into one party. My bad for not reading the patch notes i guess.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I believe the colors of madness patch got rid of that contingency.

[@ToriToriUwU]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming Yeah, i checked it on wiki and they changed it in the colors of madness. Well, maybe now i will use abomination for the first time in... ever.

[@inquisitorthornside3p494]

I am offended that Chad Thundercook I mean Lepler is not in L or SS+ tier.

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

He is S+ in my heart.

[@patrykrys3153]

Funny thing, i play only champions you marked as "D tier" because of DODGE and BLIGHT :D AND ANTIQUARIAN IS MOST OP CHAMPION IN GAME, enemy dmg doesn't matter if they can't hit you!

[@michaelcoffey1991]

Fun video, and enjoyed this video and how you gave your point of view and WHY. Always like your discussion pieces. Have fun and stay safe good Sir. In this age of stupid ppl are going to make COVID 19 stick around til July or August if they would just stay inside 1 mo we would be past most of this ughhhh anyway was fun to smile for a bit even if just 20 minutes :)

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

I am glad it could add some fun to the day!

[@jishemoo6119]

Put an antiquarian in the front and crusader in the back like your boy here does all the time 👌🏽👌🏽

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

Sounds good to me!

[@tonycallme3667]

i always find abomination hard to use, his skills is like the very bottom in Mediocre, even Leper has better healing skill than him... apparently. His transformation is debatable, it's relatively strong but not too overwhelming like Leper. But he has stun, poison which is... meh.

[@scarlettxknight]

This tier list doesn't seem applicable to the game itself, the factors used to judge these characters results in a tier list that judges them as individual units rather than as components of a team which is really how you judge effectiveness in a game like darkest dungeon, sure you can judge them like that, but it isn't useful, it lacks context, if you made a team of the S tier units and the top A tier unit, you're gonna struggle hard which really makes this list pointless, judge units on their actual in game impact rather than arbitrarily assigning points values, versatility and utility are the strongest factors in what makes a darkest dungeon character good and some characters(like the vestle) bring so much utility that they cannot be ignored or unincluded from late game teams meaning they should certainly be S, while someone like a highway man is the best in his role, you can survive with one of the lesser characters in the same role (like bounty hunter) but if you try replacing a vestle with a crusader or occultist, your team will suffer heavily

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

First off, I understand your points and it is one way of looking at it. Second, thank you for taking the time to watch and formulate this conversation. I would argue if you keep an occultist then a combination of the S and A tier, you would be more than alright. The only weakness would be direct stress healing and that brings me to my next point. In a way you could argue the Vestal, Jester, and Houndmaster are the top 3 characters in the game. The game did not allow any strong choices for healing outside of the vestal, thus she is used frequently and appears to be really good (some would say necessity automatically makes you good). I would argue, if you removed divine comfort from her, she would be very mediocre and would turn into a worse occultist. Once again she does have it, and does keep your party alive, but most of her other aspects to me seem average. To wrap this point up, as you said, the game is team oriented. With so many strategies and play styles it would be very hard to say who really improves a party and who doesn't. I even give a disclaimer that S's and A's may actually make your parties worse if you are not used to them because of that factor. The stress healing department is not nearly as bad because you can heal stress via kills, critical strikes, curios, and many other classes have a respectable stress healing skills. But the Jester would obviously be the best because of the high stress heal and reduced incoming stress. Thank you again for your comment!

[@scarlettxknight]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming i can see your point, but seeing as it is part of her kit it makes her the best for healing, she is also far more consistent in her ability to heal which i feel makes her superior to the occultist, in darkest dungeon there really are only a few roles a hero can play, healer, stress healer, buffer, damage dealer/dot applier, and tank, using those roles as a guideline i would put the best hero for each role in my S tier and structure the rest based on their abilities in relation to whos on top, but i can see why you structured it the way you did

[@nadMoZzzg]

I almost never use jester and man at arms, always considered them useless, and leper not in S whaaat

[@dapizzasnake8462]

With bounty hunter I just mark a high hp boi and next turn one shot them lmao

[@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming]

That is fair. He has some serious dps through mark.

[@dapizzasnake8462]

@@HiDdeNSQuiDZGaming plus 90% is just annihilation.

[@tokiwartooth4404]

Claiming that this game is like Dark Souls is real. Riposte is OP. That's why. Unfortunately only two classes know how to parry.

[@turntapeover5749]

WIthout even watching I can already tell tier D is gonna be Abomination and Antiquarian xD