High Tunnel - Update and low tech compost heating setup

[@teresa3634]

You are very articulate. It's a pleasure tuning into your channel and getting ideas. Living in Northern Ontario, we have to wait a bit longer to plant, but you are truly inspiring

[@edibleacres]

Teresa, you are too kind and we appreciate immensely having you in our extended community with us!

[@jasonhatfield4747]

Charles Dowding in the UK does a hot compost bed for seed starting in his greenhouse too. He uses fresh horse manure to get hot compost going.

[@thinkandgoaloe2432]

👍✨️

[@elizabethwilson9126]

Yes I have seen Charles Dowding use horse manure heat bank. Huw Richards has just recently started to experiment too. Its a very old idea which has re emerged. Great work

[@kabbak]

You can use the heat to make jadam microbial solution during winter early start making worker or fertilizer microbes to help increase soil life development. Not sure how that works when applied in cooler temps though

[@edibleacres]

He has great ideas and wonderful systems

[@nextchancenow7153]

I did some mini guilds in my buckets of Tomatoes with Moss Curled Parsley or Mammolo Basil, and added Mouse Melons to vine among the row of buckets. Easiest abundance of my gardens in 2022, the Mouse Melon was a huge hit and is my new favorite garden snack.

[@edibleacres]

Great mixture of plants, thanks for sharing!

[@hhwippedcream]

Diggin that siber frill kale I thought you showed(fine, dissected leaf kale) . So good flash fried on a cast iron pan with a crushed clove of garlic and butter/olive oil. love your garden thoughts and plans. pure joy.

[@hhwippedcream]

pea trellie should be awesome sans wind!

[@hhwippedcream]

Could you follow up on the spinach and cilantro bed come your germ time?

[@hhwippedcream]

Ah you're thinking the peas will be gone by the time the structure side rows are mature. My bad.

[@edibleacres]

That deeply frilled stuff is fun, kinda just shows up now and we're happy with it! We'll share more as seedlings emerge

[@waykeeperfarmandnerdery]

I love this so much, especially your focus on simplicity. We want to do a compost pile like this heading into next winter, so it is nice to see your set up!

[@edibleacres]

We'll keep sharing on how this unfolds

[@carolyncarlon9870]

Yes! Charles Dowding/No Dig Gardening in UK has been doing this for ages!

[@edibleacres]

Partial inspiration there

[@thescottishwildman3245]

Charles Dowding (on YT)has one in his greenhouse, he starts all his seedlings on and around it. Great idea.

[@edibleacres]

We love his work!

[@ChristopherLWeeks]

It's funny at the end when you talk about how many of your viewers are in much warmer places. Here in northern Minnesota, we still have 2 ft of snow even though the temp is popping up above freezing about half the days now.

[@edibleacres]

Such a wide range of folks watching!

[@memdass747]

Great idea putting the flats above compost!!

[@edibleacres]

We'll see, fingers crossed!

[@memdass747]

It’ll be great!!

[@christinarosen7519]

As someone that lives MUCH higher up north (SW Sweden, 57N), I'm getting so many great ideas for my own garden from this channel. Here, the ground is still frozen but I've sown some spinach and lettuce in the greenhouse and was just thinking about ideas for getting some heat in there. 🙂

[@edibleacres]

Really hoping this serves you well Christina!

[@greendruid33]

We're in Cape Breton and use a trellis on our tomatoes inside our high tunnel/greenhouse in the central raised bed. They do quite well this way but almost too well. The growth is vigourous and almost like a jungle come October. You will have quite a bit of shade created by this growing method.

[@iamtmckendry]

Still got snow 4ft up the greenhouse walls! Waiting for a couple weeks before getting some low tunnels going :) Haven't even started tomatoes yet!

[@edibleacres]

We haven't started tomatoes either, probably in about 2-3 weeks...

[@brandiw2022]

Love the ideas and content you share, and love the idea in particular of growing ginger as a companion plant. I have read that the ginger has some susceptibility to bacteria and fungus issues that may inhibit the tomatoes you've planned to grow with the ginger. Might I suggest a pole bean or string bean in place of tomatoes to avoid the potential damage to tomato growth, and also beans add nutrients to the soil. Please keep the experiments going! Your trials are excellent and I especially appreciate the creative use of hot beds in various ways in the hoop houses. I will keep watching...

[@edibleacres]

Nice idea on the beans.. We'll have to figure out what makes sense since we need a ton of space for tomatoes in our system... Hmmm...

[@peterjenkins2449]

Your latest compost heating system looks great. I am excited to see updates. I grew peas followed by tomatoes in a Farmer's Friend tunnel two years ago. The peas, which I sowed in late March, were very vigorous and prolific through June and into July, but they crowded and wound around the tomatoes a bit. The tomatoes did fine in the end, but without good trellising the peas might have pulled them down.

[@edibleacres]

We certainly will offer ample trellising. Thank you for the note to watch out for peas being a bit rough!

[@Smith.S.E.]

This is gorgeous, I commented on the hot compost tunnel video that you should find a way to use that heat passively, and here you are. If you need more heat I'd even slap another one in the opposite diagonal corner

[@edibleacres]

We got a lot of constructive input on past videos to design the compost INTO the space and think about what can happen on TOP of the compost and directly next to the compost. All great paths to explore and we listen :)

[@TaylorinShirewood]

I recommend 2 pea seeds per hole, this suggestion comes from Charles Dowding, and he likes to do this with his module trays - but direct sowing can work too!

[@edibleacres]

That happened accidentally anyway :)

[@niceglass6484]

Love this very reminiscent to hot beds love the functional aspect heat sink and starts throw some garlic in there for black garlic but needs consistency. Love it 🤙🏻

[@edibleacres]

That could be a fun experiment

[@yLeprechaun]

Tomorrow is the day here. Will be building a pile inside my first ever high tunnel and starting seeds. I'm still learning how to use the tunnel but very excited. Hope to have lots of seedlings to offer to local folks soon.

[@edibleacres]

Awesome, you got this!

[@bmoss9604]

Going to try this next year in our winter run/spring garden high tunnel. Northern NY.

[@edibleacres]

Hope it serves you well and you innovate well beyond our basic ideas

[@katherinebarone8451]

Enjoying from south of Boston where my world looks like yours! Appreciate the simpler version that I might do . have my neighbors chickens n ducks on straw now waiting on the greenhouse though!

[@edibleacres]

Sounds like the ingredients are coming together!

[@davidgolnick1403]

Nicely done. All for simplicity but I will say if you utilize some water in some poly tubes and bury in the beds as well as coil them through the compost (for even more heat put a coil on your roof), you dont need pumps. The water will transmit heat throughout the system to balance the temp. Nice way to gain some extra passive heat in the tunnel

[@racebiketuner]

I'm lucky to be in zone 9b, but started in a part of the country that gets very cold. I remember one January that never got above zero F. I couple things I learned about keeping warm are reduced air volume and verandas. The easiest way to reduce air volume is with 55 gallon drums filled with water. Their mass will also make the temperature more stable.

[@racebiketuner]

Aother way would be to make a hot bed along your north wall. In the spring, you can top it with five inches of soil and grow greens. Excavate in the fall and repeat.

[@racebiketuner]

Nobody ever mentions verandas, but there's a good reason why all large retail stores in cold climates have them. They work on any size structure from a shed to a 30k SF warehouse. When adding one to a greenhouse, it's important to make it as small as possible. Just big enough for an additional door.

[@edibleacres]

Thanks for these notes, much appreciated!

[@flatsville9343]

I've had good luck succession/relay planting along cattle panel/horta nova trellising. So much depends on the weather. It works great as intended until the weather takes a turn (usually too much heat) & the shading advantage no longer works. But, that's the way the cookie crumble. If It gives you an xtra 2-3 wks better growing, that's all you can expect, especially for tender greens shading.

[@edibleacres]

Thanks for the notes, hoping it works but we'll keep an eye open and know all this can be quite variable!

[@julie-annepineau4022]

I did peas with tomatoes to the south a couple years ago. The tomatoes loved the heat sink and nitrogen fixation the peas provided. I did have to untangle some pea tendrils from the tomatoes a few times. In a high tunnel your peas will crop much earlier than mine did so you might be safe.

[@edibleacres]

Good to know it's a reasonable idea...

[@racebiketuner]

There's an easy opportunity to improve efficiency on your north wall. Any type of insulation will do. Reflectix on the inside is very easy, but expensive. Making a fence at least one foot away with T posts and chicken wire is cheap and easy. Then fill with clean dry leaves and cover with a UV tarp to keep them dry.

[@edibleacres]

Yep, that makes a ton of sense

[@expat2023]

From 🇷🇺 with ❤️!

[@TheEmbrio]

I’ve used same trellis same spot for snow peas and then tomatoes, worked fine ! My climate is milder (european oceanic, french atlantic coast) but’it wasn,t inna tunnel, so your setup is probably a good approximation of my climate seing what is growing. Didn’t try ginger yet, can’t say !

[@edibleacres]

Really good to know that peas -> tomatoes is a reasonable path. So glad you are experimenting ahead of us!

[@racebiketuner]

4 * 4 * 4 is a good size for this pupose. You can increase efficiency by incorporating a cylindrical "chimney" in the center to provide oxygen. Chicken wire or hardware cloth works well. Just wrap a few turns over a pipe and secure by folding end cuts inward. Limit diameter to 6 inches max to minimize loss of volume.

[@edibleacres]

Thanks!

[@dwardodwardo643]

Thank you for sharing

[@edibleacres]

My pleasure

[@GrowCookPreserveWithKellyDawn]

I hope to do this someday--thanks!

[@edibleacres]

Good luck!

[@tanjarott7535]

That is such a cool idea.

[@LolitasGarden]

The lack of complexity is one thing, but the fact that you're moving toward a warmer season makes it more practical to lose the fans, pumps and PEX.

[@edibleacres]

I'm not fundamentally opposed to them, it's just there are already so so many moving parts in our systems that I want to design towards simpler and less to monitor as time goes on...

[@miabagley2202]

I love it! I've thought about doing a hot bed in my tiny little hoop house but not sure it's feasible. My entire space is only about 7 x 8

[@edibleacres]

That seems too small for a compost pile inside...

[@Madness-go3uk]

Every time I go to town I almost buy tomatoes but I have to keep telling myself no it's not quite time yet just give it another month wait for Easter

[@edibleacres]

We've been buying salad greens lately, REALLy Need this to start growing soon!!!

[@Madness-go3uk]

@@edibleacres I'm in south Mississippi so I've been doing salad greens for over a month now but I was right about waiting on my tomatoes we're supposed to get a small cold snap this week probably the last one for the season will get down in the high 30s low 40s I will probably get those in Easter weekend

[@olgakuchukov6981]

Great video, Sean! Snowy snow snow up here. Not ready. Still wanna go xc skiing! Taking care of fresh food needs by fasting 🤪

[@edibleacres]

Definitely a bit of a different climate even though not that far away!

[@olgakuchukov6981]

@@edibleacres it’s funny cause when I look at the weather apps, the forecast temps look the same but I’m in a cool hollow and colder than even a few blocks away in town. A few weeks ago I found a queen bumble bee on the concrete in town. It was warm enough there that she woke up. I picked her up, warmed her and she started to move. Long story long, I brought her home, placed her in a safe, cold spot and she’ll wake up to proper spring and a garden buffet. 😃 If I have to save one bee at a time, that’s what I’ll do.

[@vonries]

My last frost date was Feb 3. I have plums about the size of grapes overloading the tree (time to thin), strawberries to pick all around my house, blueberries starting to pump up, flowers on several citrus trees, and the bananas starting to push out new leaves again. My ginger will be in the shade of my lady finger size bananas. It is all still below ground, however by far the most prolific has to be the pineapples. Those are setting fruit as fast as can be. Most my cilantro is quickly turning into coriander however. PS. I meant to say, I thought the isle compost pile you had last year would heat those beds better then the system you're using now even without the pipework. But it's just opinion. PPS I've heard each layer of tunnel is supposed to be worth 1½ planting zones does that sound about right to you?

[@pvp6077]

I'm in Canada and we just got another 30 cm of snow from last night until this morning. I've shovelled a few hundred kilos of snow today, just from my back door to my shed. Someone else shovelled the front walkway, and a friend with a plow came by to do the driveway (over 100m long country driveway like a gravel road)

[@edibleacres]

We are in such very different climates, wow!! each poly layer bumps you up a zone is what I understood. Roughly Tennessee or Georgia under that low tunnel I'd hope :) We may end up doing a simple compost heating walkway thing in there, remains to be seen...

[@441rider]

Air forced through aluminum duct work base. Solar panel fans. Nice GH!

[@aaron_brown7324]

A simple wind break on that corner the same height with about 6 inches of hay between will keep that heat from escaping

[@edibleacres]

I think so... Loose dry hay is a miracle worker at holding temps

[@jkochosc]

The tomatoes - you're gonna weave them in the mesh as they grow?

[@racebiketuner]

If you have room for a five foot diamter bin with six inch "chimney," it will generate significantly more heat than a four foot square. If you make it four feet tall, volume will be about 2-1/2 yards.

[@edibleacres]

GOod notes, thank you!

[@rnupnorthbrrrsm6123]

What zone are you in ? I’m zone 3 so I’m no where near even being able to see any earth :( I can’t wait !!! Blessings

[@TheEmbrio]

Your compost heater pile : maybe you’ll adress it later, but i would suggest you insulate it from radiating heat outside, so’hay or leaves or even a burlap ’ curtain’ 9n the 2 outside surfaces.

[@TheEmbrio]

For your pile against your lean to greenhouse, you had insulated metal ’sandwich’ roofing. That would do. But even a curtain would work. Probably won’t make vole habitat

[@edibleacres]

I think you are very right on this. We may do a simple situation of burlap sacks with a pack of dry leaves in them or dry hay, slid in between the metal and the poly to the outside. We're happy to have heat radiate into the space, but into the air space next to the poly does very little for the project...

[@misterdubity3073]

Thinking about things you can vary to increase temp (if there are heat loving flats sitting on the compost for warmth and if compost is cooling off) w/o much effort re: compost cube in the high tunnel. You could invigorate the compost with nitrogen-rich liquid; or you could remove some of the straw barrier separating the flats from the warm compost; or you could cover the whole thing with plastic for the night. So vary what you add, or not, to the compost. Vary the distance between the flats and the compost. Vary the barrier of extra low tunnel over the compost cube. My two cents.

[@edibleacres]

I imagine we'll have 'zones' where there will be deep deep hay for flats that want even but lower temps, direct contact to hot compost for peppers/tomatoes/etc., and adding pure, lets say 'liquid nitrogen' if you know what I mean undiluted to the pile can get it really going again if it stalls :)

[@TheDruid1000]

Hi, great plan with the compost pile; it should work. but i have my doubts about your tomato plan. as seen in the video; to the left of your tomatoe's (south side) it would be hard to reach anything if you hang up a mesh, so i'd use vertical wires or something instead. Second i dont know how you prune tomato plants but when they get bigger the lower parts get pruned heavily (by my) so the ginger or whatever would get much more sun instead of shade. Personally it sounds good, but i'd plant peppers or something alike to the south side more to keep that space occupied + provide the well needed shade in a few months to the lower parts of the tomatoes.

[@edibleacres]

Good input and certainly something for us to consider

[@epanfile]

At the beginning of last year's season, you said you would talk more about guilds throughout the season, which you hardly did. I hope you find the time this year for that kind of content.

[@edibleacres]

Appreciate the nudge. This channel definitely hangs out with a wide range of topics, that is a very important one to some folks so I'll be sure to come back to those, soon! Thanks Eduard

[@mikeguitar9769]

Although I wonder….these sites seem so chock full of plants, how could any of it not be a “guild” of sorts?

[@roverinosnarkman7240]

You should put a couple of perforated 4” tubes into the compost (Johnson-Su style) to help bring more oxygen into the compost as well as to let the heat leave the pile.

[@mikeguitar9769]

I agree. In theory the aeration should also make quality/healthy compost with less odors. …. By the way, the best low-cost, passive, winter greenhouse I’ve found in research is a so called “Chinese greenhouse”, with a thick, earthen north wall. …. Who knows, maybe these ideas could be combined where the north wall could be an aerated compost berm.

[@mikeguitar9769]

However, be mindful of the humidity issue. Compost will humidify the air. That water vapor may need to be condensed on a cold surface and/or vented to limit fungal disease pressure on the plant foliage.

[@edibleacres]

Good reminder for another iteration. We have a lot of loose hay in this and there is ample wood chip, BUT active aeration would probably benefit things. Something for another version...

[@daveswords2112]

Ffabulous channel buddy awesome content. What u think to some of the Korean wood heating methods for greenhouses? Viable in uk ? With short winters below zero centigrade. Really look forward to your videos

[@edibleacres]

I don't have any direct experience with the Korean wood heating methods so I can't say, but they seem neat!

[@thenextpoetician6328]

Your setup is coming along beautifully. Clearing the aisle and running the pex makes sense. That compost is having a great party over in the corner. This winter the stallion ponies were in a temporary enclosure between the pig enclosure and the really big pony enclosure. We'll move the stallions to a portion of the pony enclosure in summer. That'll open up the area for a high tunnel on the south side of the chicken coop so they can sun themselves on warmer days. Hopefully. Regardless, boy do we have a lot of manure. The big horses pile is hot enough to have melted the snow in one spot. We're maybe even done with the cold. :) Sean - are you on PC or Mac? Philosophically, you're actually a Linux man. 4 years and no turning back to proprietary spyware here.

[@edibleacres]

Having large animals on site must be a great boon! Funny about Linux... I used to do computer stuff back in the day and I really enjoyed Linux. Used to compile my own kernels and everything. Now we pop kernels and compile compost (and I use a used mac laptop since it's easy, ha! :)

[@JoyoftheGardenandHome]

Eating sprouts while watching my seedlings grow

[@edibleacres]

Wonderful!!

[@rubiccube8953]

The metal conducts the heat away . It’s acting like a heat sink it will prematurely lower the temperature. I’ve had a compost heap outside that has kept at 55c since September with wood chip 80 litre , coffee grounds 15 litre and kitchen waste 10 litre added each week. On top I have a slab of celotex.

[@edibleacres]

The metal sending the heat into the high tunnel is a goal... THe space between the pile and the poly REALLY needs to be insulated so we'll do that, but having heat sent into the space would be a benefit

[@SG-vu4qy]

wow you're growing ginger? is it tropical? i'm looking forward to trying to grow ginger and a herbal healing garden. any tips on ginger propagation?

[@edibleacres]

We have no good tips to offer, just bought in 20 pounds of seed and we're beginning the jjourney now :)

[@CorwynGC]

I think the Simple pile will be best. I would measure the temp every chance you get,

[@edibleacres]

Just ordered a little pile of data loggers so I can offer more info to myself and this channel than "looks hot" :)

[@joshua511]

How do you attach the plastic to the greenhouse? Ideally I would turn my high tunnel into a greenhouse and use a hot compost pile during the winter months.

[@edibleacres]

The larger high tunnel we built the pile in has wiggle wire

[@gregorybaur3097]

Is that mullein?

[@clb50]

Yes it is. We have about 60 of those (at least) all over our property.

[@waykeeperfarmandnerdery]

Yes I spotted some too - silvery and furry leaf plant 😊

[@edibleacres]

They showed up and they'l be invited for a while to stay :)

[@drekfletch]

Come springtimes, you often have an overabundance of compost to manage. Would it be worth the time to take the overheating compost to topdress your nascent hugel mounds at the other site? The extra surface area would cool it and slow it, but then it would be in place when the warmth arrives and it could finish composting in situ. And then you'd have less to deal with all at once in the spring.

[@edibleacres]

I think so... The challenge for us is the unfinished hugels are at our other landscape 18 miles away... I tend to want to deliver the most nutrient density when I'm heading up there so I tend towards the finished compost... Great idea though, if it was all one landscape that would certainly make the most sense.

[@racebiketuner]

PLS 595 peas work great for this purpose.

[@WynterDragon]

If you are checking your soil temps, I would love to hear your numbers with vs without the system.

[@edibleacres]

We haven't been logging in a very formal way this year, and it is SO hard to say because one day of sun and the temps skyrocket... By eye I check when I go out early morning to see how things are doing and if there is 0 frost inside the space but nice and crunchy outside we're on a good path. Very very informal, so maybe I'll get a temp/hydro probe deal...

[@WynterDragon]

@@edibleacres I will say my long probe Reotemp compost thermometer has been really hard wearing (I leave it outside and have had it for years) but the temp/moisture meter broke pretty quickly for how expensive it was.

[@GardenJargon]

What zone are you in? Last frost date up there???

[@edibleacres]

We are zone 5B, mid-May is last frost... Most years lately we're more like zone 6 and late April for last frost

[@RayMirshahi]

Direct seeding peas hasn't usually worked for me because mice or other rodents get them. However my settings and timings were different (later in the season). Do you put mouse traps in the high tunnel? Good luck.

[@edibleacres]

We had some before but I took a break on setting them. This may be a reminder to think about having them go live again, for the peas and for the other seedlings. It's a lot of work to lose them that early :(

[@pizzaguy3645]

Charles Dowding does a hot compost in his greenhouse every spring.

[@edibleacres]

I recall seeing this in the past, I suspect there are so many fun sources of inspiration we can pull from.

[@lindaholmes6411]

❤❤❤

[@debbiewood7718]

Charles Dowding starts his seeds on a compost pile in a smaller greenhouse.

[@edibleacres]

We love his work

[@ponypetedm]

I kicked the chickens out of their shade/greenhouse put their compost pile into bins and then put some offcuts of 10mm ply over the top to create a table which we are using to start seeds, the chickens weren’t happy about this but they still have their main compost pile in their run which is now composting again with the temperature rise, we are now at 5oC on the nights which the temperature in the greenhouse 3-4oC warmer, daytime temperatures are now in the low 20s so I’ve been venting the greenhouse otherwise it gets up to 30oC in there, we will be increasing our flock this month so the Eggloo is in the greenhouse using the tunnel between the main run and the greenhouse as the new chicks run, this will make it easier to introduce them to the rest of the flock, once they have moved into the main hen house and we have finished starting seeds we will let them all back in more chickens means more compost.

[@edibleacres]

Sounds like you are evolving a great system Peter

[@ponypetedm]

@@edibleacres we are thanks to your inspirational videos.

[@flatsville9343]

Seen people close up their compost bottom heated piles too tight & "gas" their seedlings to death. Yikes! We think about conserving heat too much rather than venting dangerous decomp gas.

[@edibleacres]

I would plan to not put a cap on this. Maybe a breathable sheet nearby for an emergency cold night, but default to no covering at all...

[@jameshack485]

Not a fan of the metal roofing used in compost bin. Those edges can be really sharp and slice you right open. Cardboard would have been just fine.

[@edibleacres]

Super reasonable and understandable.

[@armchairexpert6762]

Tomatoes and peas are not complimentary plants. Both cultures will lower production if planted together.

[@edibleacres]

Interesting, I've got some looking into that idea to do...

[@cgplover]

FYI, another grower on youtube has had issues with using compost for heating; it seems like if you cover the seedlings the gasses from the compost can be harmful to them. He made a video on it here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b3jamnaGettsrJo

[@edibleacres]

I would imagine so, thakn you for the note. We don't plan to cover flats as a default...

[@gordonbooth3881]

How did 🌡 temperature change. Simplicity is successful...